Antrim Hurling

[Jesusjones]

Can nobody kick this clampet off the board?

[Walt Jabsco]

Dr our defending is usually second to none, the backs had an off day and we still came out with the win, I agree poor defending yesterday cost us the goals! However we playing the better hurling throughout sneil where incredibly dirty, sean MC afee and Aidan where hammered around that pitch, pulled down every time they got the ball,

Slaughtneil weren't dirty. A few bad challenges on both sides not helped by a poor referee.

Glad you agree with me Two Hands, in my view he was woeful.

Who was the ref?


On Slaughneil, it's no surprise that they're up with the best club hurling teams in Ulster, they've won 2 or 3 Ulster club minor titles whose teams also play in the Antrim leagues and go to any underage blitz and more often than not they'll have a team at it. Serious effort being put in for a good few years.

The fundamental problem with the ref on Sunday is that he does not get matches of that intensity on a regular basis and so he acts like a rabbit in the headlights and with that has a low level of confidence to let the teams get on with it. so by being over fussy he hopes to remain in control. I have heard it said that he referees hurling as if it was a football match (probably correct as he would do more football than hurling and would be hard to switch).
Secondly the UC have always used for Senior Club matches in both codes referees that are on the National Referees Panel and as such with an Antrim and a Derry club involved this excluded Hasson Elliott Cunning McAuley Nash leaving Clarke Sweeney and McAndrew. Although O'Connor from Donegal was used in a previous round it was a departure from the norm( he must have previous form somewhere else)
How the UC address this problem needs to be developed further. Some would point to the Ulster League has a vehicle to develop referees but this is not possible as everyone is aware teams in the senior championships in their respective counties bar Armagh do no compete in it. So back to square 1     

[Minder]

Pleased for Smoky, a really decent spud

[Milltown Row2]

Dr our defending is usually second to none, the backs had an off day and we still came out with the win, I agree poor defending yesterday cost us the goals! However we playing the better hurling throughout sneil where incredibly dirty, sean MC afee and Aidan where hammered around that pitch, pulled down every time they got the ball,

Slaughtneil weren't dirty. A few bad challenges on both sides not helped by a poor referee.

Glad you agree with me Two Hands, in my view he was woeful.

Who was the ref?


On Slaughneil, it's no surprise that they're up with the best club hurling teams in Ulster, they've won 2 or 3 Ulster club minor titles whose teams also play in the Antrim leagues and go to any underage blitz and more often than not they'll have a team at it. Serious effort being put in for a good few years.

The fundamental problem with the ref on Sunday is that he does not get matches of that intensity on a regular basis and so he acts like a rabbit in the headlights and with that has a low level of confidence to let the teams get on with it. so by being over fussy he hopes to remain in control. I have heard it said that he referees hurling as if it was a football match (probably correct as he would do more football than hurling and would be hard to switch).
Secondly the UC have always used for Senior Club matches in both codes referees that are on the National Referees Panel and as such with an Antrim and a Derry club involved this excluded Hasson Elliott Cunning McAuley Nash leaving Clarke Sweeney and McAndrew. Although O'Connor from Donegal was used in a previous round it was a departure from the norm( he must have previous form somewhere else)
How the UC address this problem needs to be developed further. Some would point to the Ulster League has a vehicle to develop referees but this is not possible as everyone is aware teams in the senior championships in their respective counties bar Armagh do no compete in it. So back to square 1     

Look this is what it is.... James is a decent lad and be it as it may is from Cavan ,  has refereed mid Ulster games and championship games in Ulster last few years.... We couldn't have the better Antrim or Derry referees so that leaves a Down referee who's done regular Antrim div one games who's able to referee Ulster  games....

The intensity generally doesn't change on whether there is a foul or not, possibly just means you need to be on top from the start and talk your fouls through.... Been watching the rugby and its something we need to take on board as referees, be clear in the call for a foul or reason for carrying on with play... Harder to do with hurling as it's quicker but I've tried it last few games... I'm still a cnut 😊  but I'm at least trying to communicate better..

Never please everyone but players probably went into the game with less respect for James because he's from Cavan?

[Walt Jabsco]

I agree MR2 that it is possible the teams possibly did not give him the respect that he was due and that he is  a decent lad who like any referee goes out every time to do his best. Although I mentioned intensity of the game it would have been better put as the speed of the game and also the greater experience of the players operating at that level were able to dictate to him what way the game was played/refereed.
Until Down and Armagh are able to provide a referee that meets the criteria for officiating at this level as per UC guidelines there needs to be a way to assist lads like James Clarke be that the stronger counties include them in their referee panels providing they were willing to do so and give them the opportunity to get more higher standard games on a regular basis.
I would contend that everybody wins and that it gives referee administrators an option of appointing a completely neutral referee where the referee has no link to a club in that division and the outcome of the match is not perceived be as beneficial to the refs own club

I am not putting refs from weaker counties down only pointing out the weaknesses in the system that currently exist

I agree that there is a certain degree of snobbery among the hurling fraternity not only in Ulster but nationally as well regarding where in this land you reside which gives rise to preconceived ideas on your ability to play or officiate
 

[Jesusjones]

Dickie Murphy was taken up (wrongly) to referee the Mageean Final. If we don't have the right ref for an Antrim Champions v Derry Champions Ulster Club Final shouldn't we take the right ref up for the game?

[Milltown Row2]

Dickie Murphy was taken up (wrongly) to referee the Mageean Final. If we don't have the right ref for an Antrim Champions v Derry Champions Ulster Club Final shouldn't we take the right ref up for the game?

Only if it goes both ways! How else are referee's meant to progress from supposed weaker counties.... Westmeath have one of the best referees on Kelly... Not a "known" hurling county..

I doubt overall that the referee made a huge difference...

[Walt Jabsco]

In the balance of things probably no difference
Everyone is entitled to their opinion as to the performances of players and officials as posters on here have and will continue to offer but a partisan opinion in my book does not carry much credibility with it

[Milltown Row2]

In the balance of things probably no difference
Everyone is entitled to their opinion as to the performances of players and officials as posters on here have and will continue to offer but a partisan opinion in my book does not carry much credibility with it

From me??  I've for many years been with different views on referees... As a player, manager , supporter and now as a referee... I can totally see where everyone comes from on these issues, but unless people from the playing fraternity in so called better counties get involved and put their efforts into things like refereeing then we cant really complain... Believe it or not, there are some inept referees in Cork, Kilkenny and Galway....would you have preferred Brian Galvin yesterday?

[Jesusjones]

Westmeath isn't a top tier hurling county granted but they ain't far away. Cavan haven't even fielded the past few years. I wonder how many club hurling matches Sunday's ref has done this year? Certainly none in Cavan anywhere near the speed or intensity of Cdall V Slaughtneil. It can work both ways. We can bring a ref in if needed but if a Cavan man wants to be a hurling ref he can be given regular quality games in other counties too.

[johnneycool]

If this lad Clarke is serious about refereeing then he needs to be refereeing at a higher standard week in, week out and no disrespect to NHL Div3 or Div4 is a lower standard than the top club hurling games in Ulster.

My issue is that the Ulster council deemed him good enough as he was the last man standing when the Antrim and Derry referees were ruled out.

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

I'm never usually critical of refs in a match. I felt on sunday he was too fussy on certain things and was inconsistent in the over carrying rule.

Thats me looking at it as a neutral mind you and my dad was sitting with me and even he was getting annoyed at him. i never hear him moan about a ref at any match i go to with him.

Im sure hes a great lad, that still doesn't mean hes immune from having a bad day.

[NAG1]

If this lad Clarke is serious about refereeing then he needs to be refereeing at a higher standard week in, week out and no disrespect to NHL Div3 or Div4 is a lower standard than the top club hurling games in Ulster.

My issue is that the Ulster council deemed him good enough as he was the last man standing when the Antrim and Derry referees were ruled out.

Westmeath isn't a top tier hurling county granted but they ain't far away. Cavan haven't even fielded the past few years. I wonder how many club hurling matches Sunday's ref has done this year? Certainly none in Cavan anywhere near the speed or intensity of Cdall V Slaughtneil. It can work both ways. We can bring a ref in if needed but if a Cavan man wants to be a hurling ref he can be given regular quality games in other counties too.

Yeah that is the issue JC. The total lack of understanding, of what it takes to do a good job in these top games. This is not a game for giving a ref a run out because he is from a lower ranked county.

Can you see the same scenario being played out in an Ulster club football final? Can you see Crossmaglen or any of the other top tier clubs, standing by and letting it happen, actually they would have no need too because it just simply would not happen.

[Milltown Row2]

I'm sure James is covering games in mid Ulster during the year and not just Cavan... Which would be intermediate level at best and junior b at worst.. The Ulster council are promoting referee's in Ulster ....

If we start giving referees top games from down South what message does that give to  referee's with ambition from Ulster?? Munster won't be on the phone to Ulster to swap referees for provincial games...

Would either of the teams on Sunday been miffed if Hasson or Cunning was in charge? Here are the options fave these lads more games in Antrim, Derry and Down ... Plus there is no guarantee that Barry Kelly would have a stormer

[NAG1]

I'm sure James is covering games in mid Ulster during the year and not just Cavan... Which would be intermediate level at best and junior b at worst.. The Ulster council are promoting referee's in Ulster ....

If we start giving referees top games from down South what message does that give to  referee's with ambition from Ulster?? Munster won't be on the phone to Ulster to swap referees for provincial games...

Would either of the teams on Sunday been miffed if Hasson or Cunning was in charge? Here are the options fave these lads more games in Antrim, Derry and Down ... Plus there is no guarantee that Barry Kelly would have a stormer

Ive yet to see one of these MR2

Yes we need to promote out Ulster refs but you dont do this through our show piece final.

Neither club would have had a problem with one of the top refs in the province being given this game. It shows them that they are being taken seriously and being given the best Ulster referee.