Antrim Hurling

[btdtgtt]

Between now and the end of June div1 clubs have 6 fixtures, plus in NA we have potenitially another 3 Feis cup games. That's at least 7 games! Nothing wrong with the fixtures so far!

The problem is that not necessarily the number of fixtures:
- frequency / infrequency
- time of year they are played (club championship in winter)
- availability of "county" players
- dual clubs and players
It is an issue around the county.
I don't know of anyone who would suggest GAA fixture making is adequate - not even the fixture makers.

[Last Man]

If Dinny is our potential saviour, how come all not well west of the Bann?

[getevennotcross]

If Dinny is our potential saviour, how come all not well west of the Bann?

Well Dinny is no the Helmsman, would that in effect be the cause for disquiet??  A case of too many chiefs, possibly!  A bit disingenuous to comment on the Derry present status,  sure are we not in the same division as them next year and have we beaten them yet?

[clootfromthe21]

So the facts are:

1. We have a poor/limited selection of players to choose from
2. We have a  pool of players who have been on the roller coaster of failure and humiliating defeats for a number of years now
3. We have an inept management/coaching team devoid of imagination and counter active game plans
4. The negativity which festers throughout our county also spills over and lives within the players mindset, they feel it also
5. We are currently and have been playing 3rd rate hurling, we do not deserve or have any rite to be playing at levels above our current status
6. We do not have the financial or physical resources that other counties enjoy and take for granted
7. We historically have been living hand to mouth for decades and minimal support from County Executive, Supporters, Club Aontroma etc.  (By the way, where have all the Club Aontroma people gone??)
8. We have no strategic plan or even a basic plan to develop hurling in our county or the appropriate personnel to deliver such a plan
9. This time next year, the year after and the year after that, we will still be here talking,debating, discussing, finger pointing about the same things
10. The perpetual cycle of negativity, feeling sorry for ourselves, frustration, accusatory and finger pointing ways is set to continue regardless, unless the right committed and adept personnel step up to the plate, i.e. players and management
11. We will  be playing in Div. 2 A, and we are not in a position of confidence to expect to win it and automatically go back up to Div. 1B
12. I wont be travelling to Cusack Park, Mullingar again as I did yesterday, to witness another humiliating and resounding defeat by a team that we ordinarily think we have the rite to beat.  This is the 2nd time in recent years we have been humiliated by Westmeath in championship.


I think I will cancel my direct debit with Club Aontroma, honestly cant see any return like many others on my small investment.

So, do we now go in search of a new messiah?  Get Dinny back I say!  Under Dinny we experienced the only true semblance of progress and demonstrated an ability to punch and perform above our expected weight (Dublin and Cork spring to mind).

Disappointing and Pitiful days!  Sadly our misfortune and demise is set to continue, it wont fix itself!

Didn't make Mullingar because of a family commitment. It would appear that our heads dropped after the Graffin injury (hope he gets well soon).

We have a most remarkable ability to drop our heads whenever another team gets a run on us. It doesn't happen every time, but it happens enough to be a signature of Antrim hurling. I had hoped last Sunday marked a turning point in that regard, but clearly not. And its not a recent thing. For as long as I have been following Antrim hurling (over 30 years), we have blown up when the pressure comes on. It even happened under Dinny from time to time (I am thinking of a quarter final against Cork the year after we should have beaten Wexford). I would love to have enough knowledge of psychology to understand it.

And we also have a remarkable overestimation of our place in the hurling world, fuelled greatly by some (very good performances) by our club teams from time to time. That said, it is undoubtedly the case that having to come through a relatively weak Ulster club championship stands to our benefit in that regard.

Seriously, what right to we have to think we should always beat Westmeath? In 2012, after Loughgiel had won the club championship, Antrim hurling was on a high and everyone was committed to playing for Antrim, Westmeath beat us 0 14 to 0 12 in the first round of the championship. That year ended with us getting thumped 8 26 to 1 15 by Limerick.

Do you know what I think were the most significant hurling results over the weekend? In the Leinster minor quarter finals, Laois beat Offaly for the 4th  year in a row. Even more significantly, Westmeath beat Wexford. This was a Wexford team that was beaten by a point after extra time by Kilkenny and which won the Leinster league handily this year (beating us 4-21 to 0-10 along the way). The semi finalists in the Leinster minor hurling championship are Kilkenny and Dublin (who you might expect) and Laois and Westmeath (who you certainly would not).

To be honest, changing the senior manager is swapping deckchairs on the Titantic. I guarantee you that, as soon as we change to an Antrim man who "understands" Antrim hurling, there will be calls for an outsider who wont be influenced by the internal politics of the Antrim club scene. What's the definition of madness - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

The reality is that, if we are ever to do anything, it has to start at underage level and by that I mean under 14/15/16. In my view, minor is nearly already too late. Certainly, the ground work has to be done before then. There seems to be work being done at that age but it seems fairly clear that Laois, Westmeath etc are already ahead of us in that regard.

[north_antrim_hound]

Cloot
That's the best post on our problems since yesterday
One thing still stinging me is we beat laois in ballycastle and for dodgy refing could have beatin them by more
That laois team ran galway to 3 points last year in leinster last year
To go down and get trounced by Westmeath suggest we are not performing week in week out

Radical work is required from minor down but there not enough hands or money

Depressing state of affairs

[johnneycool]

Just saw who Westmeath had along their line yesterday, the former Waterford manager in Michael Ryan and former Kilkenny keeper and hotly tipped to take over from Brian Cody, Michael Walsh. There's a fair bit of knowledge right there for you.

The Geographical isolation of Antrim and the other Ulster counties means its really hard to get the right people involved, Antrim have been reasonably lucky to get the likes of Dinny and Kevin Ryan to travel the distances over a good few years, but access to regular high level club games, even if they're friendlies, juvenile tournaments, club and county and general accessibility to the top level counties means you're out of pocket a good bit before you start.

I see North Antrim taking youngsters to James Stephens in Kilkenny, that sort of initiative is to lauded by all those involved, but its only the start and should be a regular event to benchmark their development, but there's a huge cost in all of that!

Would there be such an equivalent in Belfast or SW Antrim?

[imtommygunn]

South west only exists in football and not hurling AFAIK o any south west clubs would fall under north antrim...

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

had this same discussion yday about the underage. I was bemoaning the state of camogie and how whenever the girls get to 16 is too late to do anything about all of the bad habits they have. The poor swing, the inability to catch, positional awareness, anticipation of the ball, lack of core strength, confidence. All of those things if missed in a child are extremely hard to fix at 15, 16, 17 etc.

The hard work must be done at 7, 8, 9 etc and get the kids doing the basics correctly. Everything else falls into place as they grow up.

I rem someone said to me once that if you cant hit a ball on both sides by minor you wouldnt make it any farther. Now seeing a 14 year old not able to hit both sides IMO is a flaw. I make my 10 yr old nephew hit the ball on his bad side all the time to improve it and make him use it without thinking, that in a match it should come natural to hit on both sides.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

If Dinny is our potential saviour, how come all not well west of the Bann?

Yous were lucky to get out of Owenbeg last year and I dont fancy your chances this year either if you meet us. Derry for Ulster!!

[clootfromthe21]

Just saw who Westmeath had along their line yesterday, the former Waterford manager in Michael Ryan and former Kilkenny keeper and hotly tipped to take over from Brian Cody, Michael Walsh. There's a fair bit of knowledge right there for you.

The Geographical isolation of Antrim and the other Ulster counties means its really hard to get the right people involved, Antrim have been reasonably lucky to get the likes of Dinny and Kevin Ryan to travel the distances over a good few years, but access to regular high level club games, even if they're friendlies, juvenile tournaments, club and county and general accessibility to the top level counties means you're out of pocket a good bit before you start.

I see North Antrim taking youngsters to James Stephens in Kilkenny, that sort of initiative is to lauded by all those involved, but its only the start and should be a regular event to benchmark their development, but there's a huge cost in all of that!

Would there be such an equivalent in Belfast or SW Antrim?

Johnny,

North Antrim seems to be getting some structures in place alright. I think there is another trip to Kilkenny at the end of the month.

Going on some of the comments here, Belfast seems to be a bit of a disaster zone generally although Davitts, Brid Og and one or two others seem to be coming through at "very" underage level to stand alongside Rossa etc.  As I have been saying since I first came on this board, if Antrim are ever going to progress, Belfast is the key. Its simply a population thing. In North Antrim, the chances are that a child will be exposed to hurling and at least given an opportunity to play should he (or his parents!) so wish. However, that simply doesn't seem to be the case in Belfast.

Presumably, the answer (as always) appears to be:

1. Money; and

2. Organisation,

neither of which Antrim has in abundance.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Just saw who Westmeath had along their line yesterday, the former Waterford manager in Michael Ryan and former Kilkenny keeper and hotly tipped to take over from Brian Cody, Michael Walsh. There's a fair bit of knowledge right there for you.

The Geographical isolation of Antrim and the other Ulster counties means its really hard to get the right people involved, Antrim have been reasonably lucky to get the likes of Dinny and Kevin Ryan to travel the distances over a good few years, but access to regular high level club games, even if they're friendlies, juvenile tournaments, club and county and general accessibility to the top level counties means you're out of pocket a good bit before you start.

I see North Antrim taking youngsters to James Stephens in Kilkenny, that sort of initiative is to lauded by all those involved, but its only the start and should be a regular event to benchmark their development, but there's a huge cost in all of that!

Would there be such an equivalent in Belfast or SW Antrim?

Johnny,

North Antrim seems to be getting some structures in place alright. I think there is another trip to Kilkenny at the end of the month.

Going on some of the comments here, Belfast seems to be a bit of a disaster zone generally although Davitts, Brid Og and one or two others seem to be coming through at "very" underage level to stand alongside Rossa etc.  As I have been saying since I first came on this board, if Antrim are ever going to progress, Belfast is the key. Its simply a population thing. In North Antrim, the chances are that a child will be exposed to hurling and at least given an opportunity to play should he (or his parents!) so wish. However, that simply doesn't seem to be the case in Belfast.

Presumably, the answer (as always) appears to be:

1. Money; and

2. Organisation,

neither of which Antrim has in abundance.

Agreed. The game is safe in the glens, but to improve you need bigger numbers to pick from, and the only way to do that is to promote game more in Belfast

[clootfromthe21]

South west only exists in football and not hurling AFAIK o any south west clubs would fall under north antrim...

Tommy,

I'm not entirely sure that's right at underage level. I think I saw somewhere where Creggan played Loch Mor Dal gCais (a new hurling club around Crumlin/Glenavy) in the South West Feile Final recently.

On the other hand, didn't St Enda's move into North Antrim at underage because of lack of games in Belfast?

[imtommygunn]

I know there's an abbey cup at south west which is senior but I assumed that was just for senior. South west clubs definitely play in north antrim at underage . Whether the clubs are involved in these Kilkenny initiatives I'm not 100% sure but I think they are...

<Edit> Actually there seems to be some difference. There are affiliated clubs and then there are north antrim clubs on the web-site. The south west ones seem to be affiliated whatever the difference is.

[johnneycool]

had this same discussion yday about the underage. I was bemoaning the state of camogie and how whenever the girls get to 16 is too late to do anything about all of the bad habits they have. The poor swing, the inability to catch, positional awareness, anticipation of the ball, lack of core strength, confidence. All of those things if missed in a child are extremely hard to fix at 15, 16, 17 etc.

The hard work must be done at 7, 8, 9 etc and get the kids doing the basics correctly. Everything else falls into place as they grow up.

I rem someone said to me once that if you cant hit a ball on both sides by minor you wouldnt make it any farther. Now seeing a 14 year old not able to hit both sides IMO is a flaw. I make my 10 yr old nephew hit the ball on his bad side all the time to improve it and make him use it without thinking, that in a match it should come natural to hit on both sides.

Its a constant battle telling coaches that the P2 and P4's need to be able to strike properly on the ground (Big C) off both sides before even going near teaching them to lift a ball and strike it in the air.

If they don't master a proper ground stroke off both sides, they don't have the control, nor timing to master the aerial striking consistently and are incline to 'push' the ball rather than strike through it. It's really hard to correct that later on.

Don't start me on the dominant hand on top of the hurl as some of the dung you listen to from parents, some who should know better about wee johnny, "he's ambidextrous, and can draw pictures with both hands", " he can hit the ball better this way!" you really just smile and then hand the youngster a pen to write their initials on the hurl to find out for real what the dominant hand is!!

[theskull1]

South west only exists in football and not hurling AFAIK o any south west clubs would fall under north antrim...

Not really Tommy. They do exist on their own and have their own fixture arrangements but the SW hurling men work closely with NA