Antrim Hurling

[Milltown Row2]

As said already, we couldn't even beat Limerick in Loughgiel and they were 1b we got such a tanking that day, we were never going to win in Limerick yesterday but put in a performance at least. Even if we'd 15 Loughgiel players on we'd struggle against Carlow's senior hurling team at the minute

[orangeman]

There's no point looking out wards at what other counties are doing. Look first at what you're doing inside the county to improve standards.

[johnneycool]

fuckin hell lads, here's a question I asked on another thread on the work done to improve the GAA in Belfast;

HS,
I happened upon 'Ardú Bhéal Feirste' on the Ulster council web site and was wondering how they were getting on with these goals;

Key targets of the Strategy include:

Coaching, Games and Participation

    At least 10 GAA Community Coaches for the Belfast Urban Area
    An increase in games participation of at least 20% by 2014
    A specific Belfast Continuing Professional Development programme for volunteer club coaches
    Cross Club summer and Easter coaching camps
    City Based Development Squads
    Enhanced Club-School links through new coaching initiatives and programmes
    Programmes to attract new participations who traditionally would have no involvement in the GAA.

Physical Development

    Belfast GAA Urban Centre of Participation and Excellence that includes at least three new full-size pitches for club use in North and West Belfast
    At least two new full-size GAA pitches for use in the South and East Belfast
    Enhancement of Casement Park to an appropriate standard for the main GAA stadium in Ireland's second city.

Club Governance

    New group comprising of Belfast GAA club officials, Antrim, Down and Ulster GAA officials to drive the development of the GAA in Belfast
    At least two Development Officers to support Club officials in administration governance and ongoing club development
    A new Brand and Identity for the GAA in Belfast
    A "joined-up" club led approach to the overall development of the GAA in the City
    A strong GAA presence and linkage with all local government and relevant public bodies in the city.
    Specific Belfast GAA Club Development Seminars and Volunteer training events.

Culture and Heritage

    Revival of Scór in the City
    Introduction of new Specific Belfast GAA Irish language Courses
    Development of a Belfast GAA History.


Now tell me how successful that initiative has been and tell me whats different now that its 2014 and the same people are in positions of power.
Then tell me how any 'windfall' from Croke Park is going to improve anything?

Setting up the right structures from youth/schools to U-16 and minor with the existing resources is the first building block. In Dublin all youngsters are guaranteed a game or go-games blitz every Saturday, football one week, hurling the next, you don't need Paudie Butler or Ned Quinn to do that, its basic administration, get those structures right first with youngsters, they're hooked, then in the latter years improve upon the coaching, but first get the playing base widened before even thinking of development squads and trips south to compete with the higher echelons of hurling.

The indoor hurling leagues run in North Antrim are as good a model as is going, but something similar needs to be in place for the outdoor summer months.

There's no quick fixes out there and throwing money at a bad process isn't going to improve it.

[Sleeping giant]

JC speaks very passionate about this.  And I have to say am impressed and agree. BUT!!!! 40 grand a year isn't doing nothing, Dublin county pumped millions into there under age and it took the guts of 10 years to benefit them.  AIG as main sponser shows big coin getting pulled in.  Certain club memberships up on €200.  It's the clubs that can change the outlook.  But everyone needs to be thinking and moving the same way, an open meeting, any and all clubs and club members welcome. Put it all out there  and try and move forwards as a county.  Club rivalry is what you let it be. It's needed to keep the fire and passion in the games.  But it has to be left on the field and that's just one of many problems we have to sort out.

[theskull1]

Apathy (the "I'm sure someone else will look after the week in week out stuff" brigade) in the adult population is what kills this county. If we had more interested adults we would be able to improve our structures. The kids are not the problem. Its the adults who aren't creating the right environment for them to perform better. Lots of kids smell the bullshit and take the foot off the pedal when they see it doesn't really matter to enough people. This even happens in the heartlands

Plenty of good work being done but there needs to be a critical mass of interested coaches, interested parents, interested supporters for structures as we would all like to see them improve across the board.

[johnneycool]

Apathy (the "I'm sure someone else will look after the week in week out stuff" brigade) in the adult population is what kills this county. If we had more interested adults we would be able to improve our structures. The kids are not the problem. Its the adults who aren't creating the right environment for them to perform better. Lots of kids smell the bullshit and take the foot off the pedal when they see it doesn't really matter to enough people. This even happens in the heartlands

Plenty of good work being done but there needs to be a critical mass of interested coaches, interested parents, interested supporters for structures as we would all like to see them improve across the board.

What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

IMO if you were to sit down within each club and put forward a very structured approach as to how the club would be approaching youth development, assisted by a defined set of fixtures, competitions within the county then I think you'll get greater buy in from parents and potential coaches.

Parents with no real background in GAA/hurling are sometimes as keen as mustard as they themselves feel they missed out but don't want to get involved in a team for their lack of knowledge. Get a set of parents, four or five, not all will need to be there all the time nor previous players or trained coaches, but one or two would be ideal, share the workload out and that makes it more enticing to get involved as more often than not if one person puts their hand up to take on a job, very soon they'll become chief cook and bottle washer and then disillusioned very quickly then another good person is lost to the club.

You'll still have the parents who drop the kids off and take off into the sunset no matter what you do, but I've always held the belief that its a 'build it and they will come' that proper organisation and distribution of workload over as many people as possible makes it less of a burden on the dedicated few especially at underage level.

County boards have to get their act together, create a structure where children are guaranteed regular games to supplement the training and what not.

The best set up I saw in quite a while was the Down Camogie underage blitzes co-ordinated by Mairin McAleenan where she had a host club and were informed how many teams were to attend, how many pitches were needed and she then provided the running order for the games.
This happened every other sunday morning and the one I saw run on our pitch must have had the better part of 20 teams there, played their games pretty efficiently, not too much standing about and two hours later it was over, everyone away home.

The hurling side of Down have tried to copy it and its not too bad, but not as slick as what the camogs had it and not as frequent, but there's probably less hurling clubs in Down than there are camogie clubs.

When it works, it works well, it just needs maintained and evolved as the youngsters get older.

I'm sure things aren't too different in Antrim.

[Sleeping giant]

HS were you on the rip yesterday and feeling under the weather or why the attack on the 89 team?

[Milltown Row2]

HS were you on the rip yesterday and feeling under the weather or why the attack on the 89 team?

Nope. Not saying they weren't the best team we ever had but with the greatest respect the championship was structured in their favour. One win got them to an All Ireland final. You could put our win over Dublin a couple of years ago in the same category IMO.

I don't think we've ever been a serious challenger at the top table of hurling in Ireland.

No we weren't and 2 finals in our history proves that (both heavy defeats) but in fairness to that crop of players late 80's early 90's they were very competitive both in the league and championship and it was the latter which was more important in terms of prep for the All Ireland semi finals, we just can't seem to get a run at the leagues consistently (over a 3/4 year period) to be contesting when it matters.

As been said already, back to basics and get the structures right from under 8 up only then can we have a steady stream of quality/committed hurlers.

Converting club competitiveness with other counties into county competitiveness is not going to happen, Galway are very adept at winning Club All Irelands, they just can't win them at senior county level, the range of teams that have won the Galway championship has been good for them as it's a nice spread so they are competing at least, Antrim isn't the same, we normally have a team that dominates for long periods, that's not healthy or will it help the county

[johnneycool]

HS were you on the rip yesterday and feeling under the weather or why the attack on the 89 team?

Nope. Not saying they weren't the best team we ever had but with the greatest respect the championship was structured in their favour. One win got them to an All Ireland final. You could put our win over Dublin a couple of years ago in the same category IMO.

I don't think we've ever been a serious challenger at the top table of hurling in Ireland.

HS,
  yeah one win got you to an AI final back then, it was also the big incentive Down and latterly Derry had to improve and get a crack at a big gun in Croke park.
Antrim had a few close outings against both Cork in 86 and Kilkenny in 87 possibly before they got the better of Offaly in 89, so they were there or there abouts, I wouldn't go diminishing their achievements because the draw was in their favour, you still have to beat the best team from either Leinster or Munster to get there.

Do the Ulster club champions have a favourable draw into the AI series as well?

[Sleeping giant]

HS we beat an Offaly team that had a fair few top hurlers who went on to win handfuls of all stars and compete and win all Ireland.    Few years back we beat a Dublin team that had really only started to make moves.  Would we hold that Dublin outfit at the moment to 20 points??

[theskull1]

I'm 100% in agreement with HS (i.e this was our best panel of players but lets not over egg how good we were relative to the top teams when the were on a good day) . I can see JC's point about the one crack at getting to an AI final being an incentive today's Antrim IC players don't have. I'm sure it has a bearing.

But all this talk about the days of yore does nothing to improve what needs to be improved currently (if it can be improved). Suppose that's for someone else to worry about.

Think low down the age groups, we're not to bad in Antrim at getting games (if the coaches want to take them that is). Seems to be a fall off in participation at the 16-21 year old age bracket. That's where proper focus needs to be given IMO (14-21 really)

[btdtgtt]

I don't know if we'll ever get anywhere until we sort out the genetics that make those southern boys so much bigger and tougher!
No matter how skilfull we are we just end up getting bullied.

And at the risk of getting the wrath of MR2 et al I still think refereeing style has a role to play here. I understand the argument of our guys not having the same "tough but fair" mentality and this results in over bearing refs - but until northern games are reffed in the southern style we'll still be playing a different game than the big boys.

[orangeman]

The 1989 team was a brilliant team. But far too many have dined out on it since and talked about the good old days. It was a brilliant team but was a one off. Antrim have had nothing but some rousing displays since, that's all.

You can't compare what Dublin has done to what Antrim might be able to do.


Population is huge in Dublin. Not so in Antrim.

Playing football and hurling in Dublin is cool. Not so cool in Belfast.

We need to make it cool.

[btdtgtt]

GAA President-elect Aogán Ó Fearghaíl has said regenerating the GAA in Belfast will be one of his key aims during his three-year stint.
The Cavan man, who was voted the 38th President of the GAA on Friday night, says the Belfast issue will be one of his "big challenges".
"I can't understand why hurling in Belfast is not much stronger," Ó Fearghaíl told BBC Sport NI on Monday.
"That's an area I would certainly like to look at."
The GAA president added that "Ireland's second city has a huge population and a massive number of clubs and people".
Ó Fearghaíl believes Belfast should follow the model which, he says, has helped Dublin to re-emerge as a hurling force over the last five years.
"Coaching is hugely important and having a strong link between our schools, colleges and clubs.
"People talk about the investment that has gone into Dublin but the real key in Dublin has been the link between the schools and the clubs.
"Clubs all adopt a school and guys from the clubs go into the schools every single week. Not just for a six-week block.
"They go in every single week and they play hurling with the children.
"We had to look at models like that and Belfast in particular can be a growth area for us."

[CSC]

The 1989 team was really the 1986 - 1991 team.

During that time the team went toe to toe with Cork, Tipp twice, Kilkenny twice and offaly, and really should have got into at least 1 other All Ireland. So they were a great team. Our problem is that it takes 50 years to deliver the next good team