Antrim Hurling

[btdtgtt]

I wont go into my JFK theory but I dont thinks its unreasonable to this someone was well placed to post on the county website with an axe to grind with both this board (and anything else that dares criticise eg irish News) and MR2 as well.

Take no notice. Just the pathetic level our county administration is at.

I saw the CAP front page - some criticism of their publishing of it but to be honest its accurate so I dont see too much wrong. Their decision  - the dont need to answer to their readership.

But lets not involve where teams / people are from as part of this debate - whether its jumping the wore of striking with a hurl - actions have been seen from people no matter where there from!

[theskull1]

The 2 incidents I can remember of blatant aggressive pulls to the head (have never seen a woman getting a Glasgow kiss or a player being kicked in the head) from the past we both done by NA hurlers. Both near misses thank god as both victims weren't wearing a lid. Both isolated incidents over 20 years ago now. 

Would it be unfair to say here that poorly prepared juvenile teams in Belfast might have teenagers who would be more susceptible to collectively cutting up rough when they don't posses the right skills to play the game hard and fair. We'd an U14 game abandoned a couple of years ago. There was a sinister pack mentality developed in the opposition after about 10-15 when decisions/the game wasn't running for them there was a string of treacherous wild pulls on our players. 4 players sent off in 5 mins. You could sense there was an understanding amongst the players that this was what had to be done for bragging rights. The lack of instruction from the line played a big part IMO. 

[whiskeysteve]

The 2 incidents I can remember of blatant aggressive pulls to the head (have never seen a woman getting a Glasgow kiss or a player being kicked in the head) from the past we both done by NA hurlers. Both near misses thank god as both victims weren't wearing a lid. Both isolated incidents over 20 years ago now. 

I was only a wee kid at the time but I think I remember seeing Sambo pull across someones head after they squared up in a championship match many moons ago?? Straight red and I remember the uproar after it - was this infamous enough? As I say it was one of my first memories of a championship hurling match!

[thegladiator]

If we're gonna play that game,  1 of our top referees pulled the worst head shot I've ever witnessed. Served a good suspension for it too.  Granted it was nearly 20 years ago, but he wasn't 16 years old. Poacher turned game keeper.

[theskull1]

And off we go on a tangent 

[Gizzy15]

If we're gonna play that game,  1 of our top referees pulled the worst head shot I've ever witnessed. Served a good suspension for it too.  Granted it was nearly 20 years ago, but he wasn't 16 years old. Poacher turned game keeper.

before we go off on the tangent I think that Ref was involved with one of the clubs in this incident??

[thegladiator]

Was that when sambo done mickey smart at casement? Mickey didn't hurl again after that. Uproar from the hill.he was lucky to get out alive that day. Digger mckearney got moved onto sambo and he didn't want to know after that. Cowardly fxxker.

[NAG1]

Right I think we should nip this in the bud before it goes in all sorts of directions.

Everyone is in agreement what happened in the match was wrong and that those who acted in a violent way should be punished.

There is an investigation to determine the facts. Once they are known suspensions will arise and hopefully served.

What else does anyone want done? There is nothing else to do, these incidents will happen from time to time and as we have seen people recalling incidents 20 years ago, its not new.

It is how we react to them and learn any lessons if required.

We play and coach a very passionate game and sometimes that gets the better of people but i would say there were thousands of games this year and maybe only a handful that caused any sort of bother.

[thegladiator]

He was indeed. Most of his family were involved for many years before that. Don't get me wrong, it was a terrible stroke. I was playing with him and it took 3 of us to pull him away from going in again. Times were a lot worse then than now thankfully. While I don't wish to take away from the incident at Glenariffe.  We should be grateful that these types of things are less common than 20-30 years ago. A lot worse was going on then, but not as widely reported thanks to the internet/twitter etc. I wish we could rely on our administrators to deal with it correctly,  but in even handing over the cup after the game and their methods of work over the last few years dont bode well.

[johnneycool]

The 2 incidents I can remember of blatant aggressive pulls to the head (have never seen a woman getting a Glasgow kiss or a player being kicked in the head) from the past we both done by NA hurlers. Both near misses thank god as both victims weren't wearing a lid. Both isolated incidents over 20 years ago now. 

Would it be unfair to say here that poorly prepared juvenile teams in Belfast might have teenagers who would be more susceptible to collectively cutting up rough as they don't posses the right skills to play the game hard and fair. We'd an U14 game abandoned a couple of years ago. There was a sinister pack mentality developed in the opposition after about 10-15 when decisions/the game wasn't running for them there was a string of treacherous wild pulls on our players. 4 players sent off in 5 mins. You could sense there was an understanding amongst the players that this was what had to be done for bragging rights. The lack of instruction from the line played a big part IMO.

Nail on head there.

There's also the distinct misunderstanding of what is hard hurling and what is sneaky dirty cowardly hurling. If you're going hard and fair there's an understanding that you yourself may get hurt in the process, whereas the sneaky, cowardly hoor is almost never in a position to get hurt, coming in from behind, pulling high, etc, etc.

[johnneycool]

And off we go on a tangent 

As much as it is going off tangent with what happened 20 years ago, the way the Antrim county board dealt with the Sambo/Kevin McShane incident wasn't exactly covering themselves in glory.

Initially Sambo got the full 2 year suspension IIRC, but then Antrim county board invoked some obscure ancient bylaw or other to allow him to play for Antrim the following summer meaning his suspension was reduced to 9 months tops.

Hardly a good deterrent, was it?

[Milltown Row2]

The 2 incidents I can remember of blatant aggressive pulls to the head (have never seen a woman getting a Glasgow kiss or a player being kicked in the head) from the past we both done by NA hurlers. Both near misses thank god as both victims weren't wearing a lid. Both isolated incidents over 20 years ago now. 

Would it be unfair to say here that poorly prepared juvenile teams in Belfast might have teenagers who would be more susceptible to collectively cutting up rough as they don't posses the right skills to play the game hard and fair. We'd an U14 game abandoned a couple of years ago. There was a sinister pack mentality developed in the opposition after about 10-15 when decisions/the game wasn't running for them there was a string of treacherous wild pulls on our players. 4 players sent off in 5 mins. You could sense there was an understanding amongst the players that this was what had to be done for bragging rights. The lack of instruction from the line played a big part IMO.

I wasn't at the game but heard about it Skull, involved my club. I personally haven't ever used that type of tactics and wouldn't be involved with a team that used them. While being a corner back for years I was never an angel but always went for the ball. Hard but fair

[NAG1]

And off we go on a tangent 

As much as it is going off tangent with what happened 20 years ago, the way the Antrim county board dealt with the Sambo/Kevin McShane incident wasn't exactly covering themselves in glory.

Initially Sambo got the full 2 year suspension IIRC, but then Antrim county board invoked some obscure ancient bylaw or other to allow him to play for Antrim the following summer meaning his suspension was reduced to 9 months tops.

Hardly a good deterrent, was it?

That is exactly my point that the lessons from these incidents and how they were handled should be learned and implemented in to anything coming out in recent incidents.

[Glentaisie]

I went to Glenariffe on Saturday mainly to support Ballycastle in the 'A' Final but arrived about 20 minutes into the first half of the 'B' Final.  I didn't see everything that happened. For instance I didn't see the photographer being assaulted or the incident where it is alleged that a parent jumped the fence and assaulted a Gaels player.

But this is what I did see from behind and slightly to the left of the Belfast Gaels sideline.

Glenshesk were in front and I was told that even at that stage, certainly one, and possibly two Belfast Gaels players could have been sent off but weren't.   Glenshesk stretched their lead from that point through until about 15/20 mins into the 2nd half.  At this stage the Gaels' centre half back was sent off after receiving a second yellow. 

In my opinion this is where it really started. He didn't want to go and argued vehemently with the ref about it. He started to walk towards the line but ran back and had words again with the ref eventually leaving the pitch.  The Belfast Gaels players, both those on the pitch and those on the sideline were incensed about the sending off.

Within a few minutes the ref advised the Gaels' mentors to take their No 7 off before he got sent off.  They did
so but the No 7 came to the line "effing & blinding".  One of the mentors told him to pack it in or, I think what he said was,
"you'll never play for St Paul's again", to which the No 7 replied that he didn't care and continued to be agitated and abusive.

This is where the Gaels' mentors abdicated responsibility.  The mentor turned his back and walked away. 
The No 7 and others just got more agitated - one asking to be put on so that he could get sent off.  I saw one sub being sent on
after taking instructions from a player on the sideline,not from the mentors!  Having lost control of their players on the sideline
there was no chance that they could control their players on the pitch.

Glenshesk, meanwhile, extended their lead to 12 pts. 2-12 to 0-6.

Then it really went mad.  The ref had, I think, blown for a free. Words were exchanged between the Glenshesk player and the
Belfast Gaels player.  The Gaels player stepped back and struck the Glenshesk lad on the head with his stick.  Within seconds,
another Gaels player did exactly the same to another Glenshesk lad.  A Glenshesk player then ran up and, after seeing the first
two strikes you would have to say, rather foolishly/naively, dropped his hurl and pushed a Gaels lad in the chest with his hands, 
I'm not sure if this was the same Gaels lad who had administered the second head strike, but his response was to step
back and deliver another strike to the head with his hurl.

That was 3, full-blooded strikes to the heads of Glenshesk players within seconds of each other. I can tell you it was pretty shocking.
The recipient of the last strike looked to be badly hurt. He went to his knees, got up, staggered about, undid his helmet, did it up again, went down, got up, staggered - he didn't seem to know what was going on.  As I watched him the whole melee started so I didn't actually see how that developed.  Just 2 notable elements of it. 

The first was a Gaels mentor sprinting across the pitch and booting someone who was lying on the ground. 

The second was the aforementioned Gaels No 7 repeatedly sneaking around the perimeter of the melee, kicking and striking people and then running away and dancing about in jubilation with his arms in the air.

The Glenshesk players were shepherded towards the pavilion though there still seemed to be some action going on in the middle.  The Gaels mentors got their players back to the sideline. They were in jubilant and celebratory mood.  Disgracefully, one of their mentors seemed to be encouraging this and promoting some kind of group solidarity.

My overview is this.  Glenshesk were much the better team.  Gaels couldn't take defeat.  The Gaels mentors lost control/abdicated responsibility of their charges.  It was Gaels who were the instigators and worst perpetrators of violence.  There are at least 3 of those players who should never be allowed through the gates of a GAA pitch again.  The mentors should never be allowed to take charge of any team ever again.

If it is true that Antrim County Board are going to award the trophy to this team because Glenshesk refused a replay, that is scandalous.  I repeat the score

Glenshesk 2-12  Belfast Gaels 0-6

What parent of a 14/15/16 year old could be expected to allow their child to replay that game after witnessing those scenes?
Those youngsters could have been seriously and permanently damaged.  In fact, I don't believe it is an exaggeration to say that a fatality could easily have resulted from the actions of the Gaels players.

Can it really be countenanced that a team who are being well beaten should be able to start a riot, get a match abandoned and then be awarded the trophy?

I hope not. 

I've been going to hurling matches for more years than I want to remember and have seen some individual, dirty strokes in my time, but I have never seen such concerted, cowardly, thuggery as I saw on Saturday.

[glens abu]

I went to Glenariffe on Saturday mainly to support Ballycastle in the 'A' Final but arrived about 20 minutes into the first half of the 'B' Final.  I didn't see everything that happened. For instance I didn't see the photographer being assaulted or the incident where it is alleged that a parent jumped the fence and assaulted a Gaels player.

But this is what I did see from behind and slightly to the left of the Belfast Gaels sideline.

Glenshesk were in front and I was told that even at that stage, certainly one, and possibly two Belfast Gaels players could have been sent off but weren't.   Glenshesk stretched their lead from that point through until about 15/20 mins into the 2nd half.  At this stage the Gaels' centre half back was sent off after receiving a second yellow. 

In my opinion this is where it really started. He didn't want to go and argued vehemently with the ref about it. He started to walk towards the line but ran back and had words again with the ref eventually leaving the pitch.  The Belfast Gaels players, both those on the pitch and those on the sideline were incensed about the sending off.

Within a few minutes the ref advised the Gaels' mentors to take their No 7 off before he got sent off.  They did
so but the No 7 came to the line "effing & blinding".  One of the mentors told him to pack it in or, I think what he said was,
"you'll never play for St Paul's again", to which the No 7 replied that he didn't care and continued to be agitated and abusive.

This is where the Gaels' mentors abdicated responsibility.  The mentor turned his back and walked away. 
The No 7 and others just got more agitated - one asking to be put on so that he could get sent off.  I saw one sub being sent on
after taking instructions from a player on the sideline,not from the mentors!  Having lost control of their players on the sideline
there was no chance that they could control their players on the pitch.

Glenshesk, meanwhile, extended their lead to 12 pts. 2-12 to 0-6.

Then it really went mad.  The ref had, I think, blown for a free. Words were exchanged between the Glenshesk player and the
Belfast Gaels player.  The Gaels player stepped back and struck the Glenshesk lad on the head with his stick.  Within seconds,
another Gaels player did exactly the same to another Glenshesk lad.  A Glenshesk player then ran up and, after seeing the first
two strikes you would have to say, rather foolishly/naively, dropped his hurl and pushed a Gaels lad in the chest with his hands, 
I'm not sure if this was the same Gaels lad who had administered the second head strike, but his response was to step
back and deliver another strike to the head with his hurl.

That was 3, full-blooded strikes to the heads of Glenshesk players within seconds of each other. I can tell you it was pretty shocking.
The recipient of the last strike looked to be badly hurt. He went to his knees, got up, staggered about, undid his helmet, did it up again, went down, got up, staggered - he didn't seem to know what was going on.  As I watched him the whole melee started so I didn't actually see how that developed.  Just 2 notable elements of it. 

The first was a Gaels mentor sprinting across the pitch and booting someone who was lying on the ground. 

The second was the aforementioned Gaels No 7 repeatedly sneaking around the perimeter of the melee, kicking and striking people and then running away and dancing about in jubilation with his arms in the air.

The Glenshesk players were shepherded towards the pavilion though there still seemed to be some action going on in the middle.  The Gaels mentors got their players back to the sideline. They were in jubilant and celebratory mood.  Disgracefully, one of their mentors seemed to be encouraging this and promoting some kind of group solidarity.

My overview is this.  Glenshesk were much the better team.  Gaels couldn't take defeat.  The Gaels mentors lost control/abdicated responsibility of their charges.  It was Gaels who were the instigators and worst perpetrators of violence.  There are at least 3 of those players who should never be allowed through the gates of a GAA pitch again.  The mentors should never be allowed to take charge of any team ever again.

If it is true that Antrim County Board are going to award the trophy to this team because Glenshesk refused a replay, that is scandalous.  I repeat the score

Glenshesk 2-12  Belfast Gaels 0-6

What parent of a 14/15/16 year old could be expected to allow their child to replay that game after witnessing those scenes?
Those youngsters could have been seriously and permanently damaged.  In fact, I don't believe it is an exaggeration to say that a fatality could easily have resulted from the actions of the Gaels players.

Can it really be countenanced that a team who are being well beaten should be able to start a riot, get a match abandoned and then be awarded the trophy?

I hope not. 

I've been going to hurling matches for more years than I want to remember and have seen some individual, dirty strokes in my time, but I have never seen such concerted, cowardly, thuggery as I saw on Saturday.

That's a scary read alright and sounds absolutely disgraceful what happened