Antrim Hurling

[btdtgtt]

We have people here in Antrim being paid too!

Maybe they're just not as good they're job.
Or maybe the money isn't being spent as well.

The idea that the GAA threw a blank cheque into Dublin hurling - and it magically produced results is crazy and naive.
Our top club teams may beat their top club teams - but underneath that Dublin hurling is much stronger than ours. The schools & colleges are further evidence.
That's not just because of "investment plain and simple"

[NAG1]

We have people here in Antrim being paid too!

Maybe they're just not as good they're job.
Or maybe the money isn't being spent as well.

The idea that the GAA threw a blank cheque into Dublin hurling - and it magically produced results is crazy and naive.
Our top club teams may beat their top club teams - but underneath that Dublin hurling is much stronger than ours. The schools & colleges are further evidence.
That's not just because of "investment plain and simple"

btdtgtt

Im sorry but you are missing the point here, Dublin did not put 'development officers' around the county of Dublin, they with the clubs put them into individual clubs. A full time paid person developing a specific club, writing development plans, encouraging coaches to come to the club, upskilling these coaches and anything else to help the club progress.

Our one development officer for the whole of Belfast and one for North Antrim is a drop in the ocean to this.

[btdtgtt]

I'm not missing the point at all.

I think the Dublin development officer is a great idea and and obviously is one of many things that worked for them!
Although they obviously have greater numbers than us. Much greater! Belfast and Dublin citiy's are not directly comparable that's the 1st mistake often made.

That said - it doesn't mean we are getting value for money from our existing paid officials! It's not just quantity - but quality too. I have experience of around clubs & schools and I don't speak to anyone who believes we are getting much value for money - a monthly blitz and woodlands is not going to catch up on Dublin! Our development squads are box ticking exercises - all about looking great on paper with little tangible outcomes - in my opinion.

Also - I can tell you that GAA funding is not secretive and they are at pains to prove it matches per capita and linked to internal investment - otherwise don't you think every county would be screaming for their case?!
In terms of money we have to look at how it's spent!
One word - dunsilly?!

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

in terms of development we had for the first time in our club no minor football team due to lack of numbers. it was actually unbelivable that it happened but it shows that it can happen to any club esp a dual club like ourselves who always fielded teams at every grade and code.

i actually dont know who the developemnt officer is in our area? who are they? what do they do?

if it wasnt for the great work of the men and woman who take our U12-Minor players at our club then we wouldnt be where we are today.

i watched former senior players last night coaching our U12-14 players and the enthusism they give to those wee lads is brilliant. they kept saying to them 'this is what the seniors do, they keep going and going' nad stuff like that.

[johnneycool]

We have people here in Antrim being paid too!

Maybe they're just not as good they're job.
Or maybe the money isn't being spent as well.

The idea that the GAA threw a blank cheque into Dublin hurling - and it magically produced results is crazy and naive.
Our top club teams may beat their top club teams - but underneath that Dublin hurling is much stronger than ours. The schools & colleges are further evidence.
That's not just because of "investment plain and simple"

btdtgtt

Im sorry but you are missing the point here, Dublin did not put 'development officers' around the county of Dublin, they with the clubs put them into individual clubs. A full time paid person developing a specific club, writing development plans, encouraging coaches to come to the club, upskilling these coaches and anything else to help the club progress.

Our one development officer for the whole of Belfast and one for North Antrim is a drop in the ocean to this.

Dublin had a coherent and well thought out plan to try and get funding to put in place, now there was a 'get belfast to hurl' initiative a few years back whatever happened there? Nothing, diddly squat.

Dublin clubs fund 50% of their full time coaches salary, how many Belfast clubs could do the same? How many Belfast clubs have the resources of a Ballyboden, a Kilmacud Crokes, or the other many dual clubs with up to 1000 paying members?

There are very few similarities GAA wise between Dublin and Belfast, Waterford would possibly be a better bet.

[Ballybredagh]

Spot on Johnnie C. Belfast has no resemblance to Dublin. Just check the demographics on the NINIS website. Better if we concentrated on getting the right coaches in place, role models for our juveniles and not unknowns, albeit passionate ones. Much better if we paid young stars/current players who our young aspire to.

[btdtgtt]

Agree with both Johnny & ballybredagh.

The Dublin comparison is lazy.

One minor point - Belfast clubs being unable to raise the money that Dublin clubs do is not a slant on them - socio-economic fact. (Not saying u meant it as a slant either JC).

[johnneycool]

Agree with both Johnny & ballybredagh.

The Dublin comparison is lazy.

One minor point - Belfast clubs being unable to raise the money that Dublin clubs do is not a slant on them - socio-economic fact. (Not saying u meant it as a slant either JC).

No, it wasn't meant to be a slant on Belfast clubs as most of us have probably been to one of the big Dublin clubs in recent years and the resources available to them beggars belief. The Celtic tiger was good to them.

[Fairhead]

We have people here in Antrim being paid too!

Maybe they're just not as good they're job.
Or maybe the money isn't being spent as well.

The idea that the GAA threw a blank cheque into Dublin hurling - and it magically produced results is crazy and naive.
Our top club teams may beat their top club teams - but underneath that Dublin hurling is much stronger than ours. The schools & colleges are further evidence.
That's not just because of "investment plain and simple"

btdtgtt

Im sorry but you are missing the point here, Dublin did not put 'development officers' around the county of Dublin, they with the clubs put them into individual clubs. A full time paid person developing a specific club, writing development plans, encouraging coaches to come to the club, upskilling these coaches and anything else to help the club progress.

Our one development officer for the whole of Belfast and one for North Antrim is a drop in the ocean to this.

Dublin had a coherent and well thought out plan to try and get funding to put in place, now there was a 'get belfast to hurl' initiative a few years back whatever happened there? Nothing, diddly squat.

Dublin clubs fund 50% of their full time coaches salary, how many Belfast clubs could do the same? How many Belfast clubs have the resources of a Ballyboden, a Kilmacud Crokes, or the other many dual clubs with up to 1000 paying members?

There are very few similarities GAA wise between Dublin and Belfast, Waterford would possibly be a better bet.

Very valid point JC. Another point is that the coaches in the clubs in Dublin are GAA coaches not just hurling coaches. They have to develop both codes so that means the same amount of training sessions, there aren't just hurling only clubs in Dublin.

[clootfromthe21]

I understand that the annual membership of some of the big south Dublin "superclubs" can be in excess of €250.00 per annum. That plus a large number of members and you are talking a serious income. While certainly "the GAA" put money into Dublin hurling, a lot of the resources were self generated. There is no comparison with Belfast (save, perhaps, for one relatively new club in the south of the city?!?!?!?). As such, the Dublin "template" cannot be applied to Belfast without serious tweaking.

That said, I agree with btdtgtt that, if Antrim are to make progress, the "resource" of Belfast's population will have to be used better.

Don't know what the answer is, though. Club Antrim seems to have gone a bit quiet, although lack of inter-county success (in either code) creates problems in raising the profile.

[Seamroga in exile]

Why is nobody addressing the elephant in the room? There are too many hurling clubs in west Belfast. Yes?

[Milltown Row2]

Why is nobody addressing the elephant in the room? There are too many hurling clubs in west Belfast. Yes?

Far too many, but what do we do? Some of these clubs are going longer than yourselves and have tradition also. Does the county say that if you're not fielding juvenile teams at all levels then you have to cease?

I'd love to see fewer clubs, I'm lucky being involved with a bigger club but I'd feel pissed off if I had to join another. What would the criteria be to close?

[btdtgtt]

Why is nobody addressing the elephant in the room? There are too many hurling clubs in west Belfast. Yes?

Yes - very true.
I wouldn't say it's the biggest problem but true nonetheless.
The following happens regularly:

"Wee joey" is a great hurler and plays for a weak club.
He gets fed up getting stuffed every week by the strong clubs.
Because of the rivalry / club loyalty / football - he doesn't transfer.
Joeys mates and soon himself give up on hurling because its seemingly going nowhere.

End result - hurling ability & potential lost.

Solution?
Allowing all players at all grades to play for separate clubs in separate codes?
Would so-called weaker clubs encourage their players to go elsewhere?
Is this fair on them?

Not an easy one lads!

[ned]

Why is nobody addressing the elephant in the room? There are too many hurling clubs in west Belfast. Yes?

Yes - very true.
I wouldn't say it's the biggest problem but true nonetheless.
The following happens regularly:

"Wee joey" is a great hurler and plays for a weak club.
He gets fed up getting stuffed every week by the strong clubs.
Because of the rivalry / club loyalty / football - he doesn't transfer.
Joeys mates and soon himself give up on hurling because its seemingly going nowhere.

End result - hurling ability & potential lost.

Solution?
Allowing all players at all grades to play for separate clubs in separate codes?
Would so-called weaker clubs encourage their players to go elsewhere?
Is this fair on them?

Not an easy one lads!

That is a tough one. My club are traditionally a football club but are probably now at a similar level in both codes (poor!). A few years ago there was some crossover with another club who were exclusively a hurling club. However, now at underage level there is amalgamation with other clubs which makes sense. All any club needs is probably 2-3 players stepping up from minor level each year to sustain a senior team.
Also when I played minor football our team was decent enough to be narrowly beaten in a county minor QF in football. We probably had a chance to go the whole way but of that team only one played any great part in the senior team. A very poor return from a decent minor team. There has always traditionally been a poor step up from minor to senior in a lot of clubs for various reasons.

[Jesusjones]

Too many hurling clubs in West Belfast? No chance, places like Armoy, Carey, Cushendun and Glenariff can sustain good hurling teams with populations of less than 1000 people. There are streets in West Belfast with more than 1000 people. The key is having strong, committed club men and coaches involved.