Antrim Hurling

[btdtgtt]

"teams that will compete week in week out "

NAG I think manandball has a point in that outside the top3 - none of the other teams are competing week in week out - thats is that every other side is taking a beating at some point for some reason.

Using this, maybe Galls think they too could gather together enough points to warrant their place, in perhaps a simialr way to teams outside the top3.

I am not necessarily supporting this view as I would (as argued in the whole "target games" debate) like to see a genuinely competitive div1 and div2 (like if championship depended on it) - but this is a DISCUSSION board after all.

Like I said tho - it cant just be coincidence that any year of re-structuring has consistently resulted in the favour of Glens teams or the detriment of city team - FACT

[Milltown Row2]

Then split the league, Div1 A and Div1 B after a first round of games. Obviously the city teams will be in the bottom half so won't have to travel up the M2 and the NA Antrim teams will have those competitive games at the business end of things. Or based on your points just have Cushendall, Loughgiel and Dunloy in Div 1

I don't think Galls will miss not going up or Glenariffe either for that matter. Sarsfields won't want to go up. So let it be but change it to two two down the following year, so everyone knows what to expect. Simple, now back to work!!

[btdtgtt]

Then split the league, Div1 A and Div1 B after a first round of games. Obviously the city teams will be in the bottom half so won't have to travel up the M2 and the NA Antrim teams will have those competitive games at the business end of things. Or based on your points just have Cushendall, Loughgiel and Dunloy in Div 1

I don't think Galls will miss not going up or Glenariffe either for that matter. Sarsfields won't want to go up. So let it be but change it to two two down the following year, so everyone knows what to expect. Simple, now back to work!!

Not a bad suggestion MR2 - tongue firmly in cheek on the end positions although maybe the split might bring about more competitive games. Lesser teams get to pit themselves against the stronger teams to improve, and the big guns still get their own little party at the business end.
Glenarrife will go up from2nd thanks to their Glens friends and battle to stay up - Galls will be Galls.
The Paddies however would like to go up from talking to Keevo he sees it as necessary to keep players.

[NAG1]

Then split the league, Div1 A and Div1 B after a first round of games. Obviously the city teams will be in the bottom half so won't have to travel up the M2 and the NA Antrim teams will have those competitive games at the business end of things. Or based on your points just have Cushendall, Loughgiel and Dunloy in Div 1

I don't think Galls will miss not going up or Glenariffe either for that matter. Sarsfields won't want to go up. So let it be but change it to two two down the following year, so everyone knows what to expect. Simple, now back to work!!

Not my point MR2 and you know it, my point is the arguement to try and improve the league in general simply cant be made by adding inferior teams (leagues dont lie) to the mix?

Am I missing something?

[Milltown Row2]

I know, I've my view on things, right or wrongly but I've a very strong view on the 2 up 2 down situation. Keeps 8 team leagues fighting during the league for most of the year. Bottom 4 trying to finish strong and training up to the end and top 4 of the other league fighting for the final two places.

[manballandall]

"Im not talking about a team that can play one off league games when it suits them, Im talking about teams that will compete week in week out from May to August through the holiday period and despite stag parties etc."

Who were you referring to NAG1 ?

Are you saying that Rossa nor Glenariff deserve to go up because they didnt play their strongest teams every week ?

That is the downfall for your argument as per my previous posts there were many heavy defeats dished out this year in Div 1 and even between the top 3.

So taken all that into account i think MR2 suggestion is the best

[theskull1]

That is the wilest bit of fence jumping youve done today btdtgtt

Agreeing one minute, provoking conspiracy the next, not having an opinion at other times when you're asked for one...not quite sure what your at 

[NAG1]

"Im not talking about a team that can play one off league games when it suits them, Im talking about teams that will compete week in week out from May to August through the holiday period and despite stag parties etc."

Who were you referring to NAG1 ?

Are you saying that Rossa nor Glenariff deserve to go up because they didnt play their strongest teams every week ?

That is the downfall for your argument as per my previous posts there were many heavy defeats dished out this year in Div 1 and even between the top 3.

So taken all that into account i think MR2 suggestion is the best

My reference really was to all teams, maybe barring the down teams outside of the big 3. The score lines in some of the games may have been heavy but there is a difference in some of these games from being a competitive 10-12 point win and being a non contest in others with similar score lines. My point is that outside of the top three the rest of the teams have to be completely on it and champing at the bit every week, they have smaller less talented squads and therefore can less afford to be missing players for whatever reason.

So adding another two teams of a similar standard to the bottom four does what?

[manballandall]

"Im not talking about a team that can play one off league games when it suits them, Im talking about teams that will compete week in week out from May to August through the holiday period and despite stag parties etc."

Who were you referring to NAG1 ?

Are you saying that Rossa nor Glenariff deserve to go up because they didnt play their strongest teams every week ?

That is the downfall for your argument as per my previous posts there were many heavy defeats dished out this year in Div 1 and even between the top 3.

So taken all that into account i think MR2 suggestion is the best

My reference really was to all teams, maybe barring the down teams outside of the big 3. The score lines in some of the games may have been heavy but there is a difference in some of these games from being a competitive 10-12 point win and being a non contest in others with similar score lines. My point is that outside of the top three the rest of the teams have to be completely on it and champing at the bit every week, they have smaller less talented squads and therefore can less afford to be missing players for whatever reason.

So adding another two teams of a similar standard to the bottom four does what?

Increases the number of teams that are of a similar standard to 6 which in itself will increase their standard and maybe, just maybe, the standard will increase enough in a a few years to challenge the top 3.
To avoid the beatings as much then go with MR2 suggestion and top 4/6 and bottom 4/6 play against one another for second half of league which would be good preparation for championship for all teams involved. That to me would improve the standard of all teams IMO

[oisinog]

Did this focus group not start before the end of the leagues?

If we had beat Rossa and went up fair and square the belfast ones here would be delighted as discussing a belfast team going up

As it stands a belfast team has went up. There is a recemmondation in place that the next however many teams go up and there is outcry at it. As it stands we do not deserve to go up and I would be happy fighting to go up next year

If you havent read the recemmendations how do you know what is going to happen?
If your club hasnt met to discuss how you would like them to vote how do you know this is going to be carried?

[btdtgtt]

Not fence jumping at all skull - I put DISCUSSION in capitals because I was saying there is more than be valid opinion here.

Oisin Og I think the point is that IF you had have beaten Rossa - then there wouldn't have been any changes to the leagues as the glens would have been happy to live in their own world.

[Buswhacker]

Antrim Gael............I don't think you can criticize Loughgiel club or players for lack of enthusiasm or co-operation. They've never lacked these qualities as well you know. That's why they're All Ireland champions.

[Milltown Row2]

Antrim Gael............I don't think you can criticize Loughgiel club or players for lack of enthusiasm or co-operation. They've never lacked these qualities as well you know. That's why they're All Ireland champions.

I think in their attitude to Antrim having a meeting and not what they have achieved for their club. But stick in being All Ireland champions again

[thegladiator]

as a paddies man, i dont think we are ready for divi 1 and it would do us more harm than good to go up. promotions and relegations should be decided on the pitch and not in the murky committee rooms in casement. rossa and oisins were the 2 best teams and deserve to go up. teams like us lamhs, galls etc dont deserve to  because we didnt earn it on the field. the constant messing with league structures is part of the problem we could all name a few clubs which could pull a few moves in the county convention to save their skins if they end up in the bottom 2 places. it negates any point in working harder to save your own skin or to accept that maybe you just arent good enough for the division and accept whats coming and work hard to get back

[theskull1]

Good to get a Paddies man to give a very level headed perspective.

All this messing around with league tables ignores the elephant(s) in the room

Are clubs coaching structures in a health state?
Are their numbers heathly?
Are they ambitious in terms of improving standards and understand that that takes years of effort?
Is dual code affecting progress?

As as been said..you earn it on the field. If more clubs get up to division 1 standard it would be fantastic, but the all too easy tampering with league structures will not make it happen.