Antrim Hurling

[btdtgtt]

Deary Deary Me, a disadvantage???  For gods sake man, you're part of the GAA!!  Remember what its about!

deary deary deary deary me, does that mean kilkenny not in the gaa,or monaghan after last week. If a club plays one code only its still a gaa club. one with less logistical headaches, less in house fighting over players and training rights. less money going out for gear, transport, etc

And less opportunity for less people to promote our games less.

Although like I say I can see north antrim point - and Kilkenny for that matter.
Personally I would rather stick a knife in the big ball - Ooops did I just say that!

Nah I do have more admiration for dual clubs and he'll throw in handball scor etc.
Multi-faceted clubs predominantly in Belfast but I must say I have always admired dunloy in this respect.

[Milltown Row2]

Deary Deary Me, a disadvantage???  For gods sake man, you're part of the GAA!!  Remember what its about!

deary deary deary deary me, does that mean kilkenny not in the gaa,or monaghan after last week. If a club plays one code only its still a gaa club. one with less logistical headaches, less in house fighting over players and training rights. less money going out for gear, transport, etc

At least a little bit of sense NAH, well said!  Less resources, less personnel required, less financial overheads, less internal code politics, less gansey's, less cleaning of kit, less problems recruiting young people, less poaching of young people.  Nothing at all wrong with focusing/specialising on the won code, make perfect sense.  However, it does create division among city clubs in particular.  North Antrim would certainly not appear to have the same problem and clearly give preference to specialism in hurling.  None of us have any right what so ever to judge any club who are promoting or favouring a specific code, it really all does come down to resources.  St. Galls however in my opinion have the scope to excel in both codes, but resources/personnel and internal politics will always dictate their preferred leaning towards bog-ball.  In many respects, St. Johns, Lamh Dhearg, St. Pauls, city clubs in general will always find it more difficult to excel in both codes at the same time.  But I suppose we all have a personal bias towards hurling, but still always going to play second fiddle in Antrim and Ulster. The evidence is quite clear in this regard

We manage to beat Cargin (a single code club) every year, so no real evidence to back up that dual clubs need to decide on a code and run with it.

[btdtgtt]

Judging by your own assertions mr2 that's because St galls have chosen football as their code - ya know with no hurling training or sliotars!!

Couldn't resist that.

[north_antrim_hound]

Deary Deary Me, a disadvantage???  For gods sake man, you're part of the GAA!!  Remember what its about!

deary deary deary deary me, does that mean kilkenny not in the gaa,or monaghan after last week. If a club plays one code only its still a gaa club. one with less logistical headaches, less in house fighting over players and training rights. less money going out for gear, transport, etc

At least a little bit of sense NAH, well said!  Less resources, less personnel required, less financial overheads, less internal code politics, less gansey's, less cleaning of kit, less problems recruiting young people, less poaching of young people.  Nothing at all wrong with focusing/specialising on the won code, make perfect sense.  However, it does create division among city clubs in particular.  North Antrim would certainly not appear to have the same problem and clearly give preference to specialism in hurling.  None of us have any right what so ever to judge any club who are promoting or favouring a specific code, it really all does come down to resources.  St. Galls however in my opinion have the scope to excel in both codes, but resources/personnel and internal politics will always dictate their preferred leaning towards bog-ball.  In many respects, St. Johns, Lamh Dhearg, St. Pauls, city clubs in general will always find it more difficult to excel in both codes at the same time.  But I suppose we all have a personal bias towards hurling, but still always going to play second fiddle in Antrim and Ulster. The evidence is quite clear in this regard

We manage to beat Cargin (a single code club) every year, so no real evidence to back up that dual clubs need to decide on a code and run with it.

I must say if you put me on the spot I would stick a knife in it(big ball) myself at times. the amount of times some of our hurling coaches had depleted squads for training because of a football clash.we cant get work done with our players from the ground to u 21 and hurling is all about hard work. but there are people in our club who prefer football then so be it.I must admit i like watching football especially when the ulster teams are going well but I think it should never be at the expense of hurling. its tough when your the only club in north antrim with this dilemma,definitely a disadvantage at times.

[Jesusjones]

North Antrim Hound Ballycastle have football teams right from U-10 to senior as well.

[Milltown Row2]

Judging by your own assertions mr2 that's because St galls have chosen football as their code - ya know with no hurling training or sliotars!!

Couldn't resist that.

Eh??

I doubt you will find anybody in Ireland that will say we are a hurling club. I must say you have done well in taking up the mantle of the latest troll on the Antrim thread. Keep her lit.

[north_antrim_hound]

North Antrim Hound Ballycastle have football teams right from U-10 to senior as well.

I know but i don't think they complete in all the sw leauges just the odd blitz and stuff. I'm open to correction here

[btdtgtt]

Judging by your own assertions mr2 that's because St galls have chosen football as their code - ya know with no hurling training or sliotars!!

Couldn't resist that.

Eh??

I doubt you will find anybody in Ireland that will say we are a hurling club. I must say you have done well in taking up the mantle of the latest troll on the Antrim thread. Keep her lit.

Good God MR2 I think you are from Loughiel in a former life! I meant judging by your assertions on the hurlers efforts St Galls have decided to be a football club (as in your point about picking one code).
Simple really?!

Anyway - I think if a dual club is to be successful it must have a dominant code - for example Dunloy put hurling over football while St Galls put football over hurling. I think this is understandable and if anything laudable.
The strains of dual-players and resources like pitches simply no longer allows dual clubs to compete with single code clubs. Not unless they have two distinct panels and pitches and I dont see much of that anywhere in Ireland let alone Antrim!
To attempt to do both (while noble) is really tantamount to accepting mediocrity in both. Not a bad way to be as such but dont expect to be having many awards at such a club's annual dinner!

[Milltown Row2]

Judging by your own assertions mr2 that's because St galls have chosen football as their code - ya know with no hurling training or sliotars!!

Couldn't resist that.

Eh??

I doubt you will find anybody in Ireland that will say we are a hurling club. I must say you have done well in taking up the mantle of the latest troll on the Antrim thread. Keep her lit.

Good God MR2 I think you are from Loughiel in a former life! I meant judging by your assertions on the hurlers efforts St Galls have decided to be a football club (as in your point about picking one code).
Simple really?!

Anyway - I think if a dual club is to be successful it must have a dominant code - for example Dunloy put hurling over football while St Galls put football over hurling. I think this is understandable and if anything laudable.
The strains of dual-players and resources like pitches simply no longer allows dual clubs to compete with single code clubs. Not unless they have two distinct panels and pitches and I dont see much of that anywhere in Ireland let alone Antrim!
To attempt to do both (while noble) is really tantamount to accepting mediocrity in both. Not a bad way to be as such but dont expect to be having many awards at such a club's annual dinner!

Two clubs that you have mentioned, Dunloy  and ourselves. Dunloy won the Ulster hurling championship recently and the same year and their Football team got to the Ulster Intermediate final.

Naomh Gall competed in two All Ireland finals, won the senior final and lost out in the hurling Intermediate final, all in the same year with a lot of players playing both. I'd say if you call that mediocrity then there are a lot of clubs out there out would love a slice of that mediocrity that you talk about. Ours and Dunloy's annual diners that year were great.

I never said that we should pick one club by the way

[btdtgtt]

Yes Mr2 I stand by my point - the mediocrity is compared to the succes of the dominant code in that same club - not to other clubs. After all it would be easy for any club to deem themselves successful if they just looked round for a small less successful club. Thats is, Dunloy's football achievments are mediocre compared to their hurlers and the same for St Galls All-Ireland success pales the hurlers to mediocre.
The point I make is simply for example I think the days of an club genuinely competing to winning senior championships / Div1 leagues in both codes in the same year are gone (this had been possible in years gone by).
I am not suggesting picking one code and abandoning the other either, just picking one to put more emphasis on.

[NAG1]

Yes Mr2 I stand by my point - the mediocrity is compared to the succes of the dominant code in that same club - not to other clubs. After all it would be easy for any club to deem themselves successful if they just looked round for a small less successful club. Thats is, Dunloy's football achievments are mediocre compared to their hurlers and the same for St Galls All-Ireland success pales the hurlers to mediocre.
The point I make is simply for example I think the days of an club genuinely competing to winning senior championships / Div1 leagues in both codes in the same year are gone (this had been possible in years gone by).
I am not suggesting picking one code and abandoning the other either, just picking one to put more emphasis on.

So going by that logical, single code clubs should be dominating the football and hurling championships? Why is this not the case then, when the dual clubs are settling for mediocrity?

[Milltown Row2]

I think your full of shite with this btgttbtgttt.

Cargin, single code should be cleaning up. Downpatrick (big town) single club, should be cleaning up and so on and so on and so on

[btdtgtt]

Yes! I think Cargin should be winning more - but then no doubt they can viably argue that they would be only for an exceptional once in a generation Galls team.
Also, have Loughuile and Cushendall not contested the past 2 hurling finals - one code clubs!
Even if we factor in St Galls football and Dunloy hurling - these are clubs which evidently favour one code!

So yes! The results on the pitch support my argument!

Look at the leagues - Cargin are a one code club who again only have been foiled from routine league wins by the freak Galls outfit. The prominance of South/West clubs has risen also. The hurling league is routinely won by single code Loughiel followed by single codes Cushendall and hurling dominant Dunloy. Before that the last winners (I believe) were single code Portaferry!

Now there are ofcourse other examples which dont fit the rule (e.g) Downpatrick as you mention.
However I am not saying single/dual codes is the only factor. For example, Carey or Glenarriffe are single codes but will point to catchment as a mitigating factor. I've no idea about Downpatrick maybe they dont have a large football tradition or lose players to more traditional outlying clubs I dont know but I am sure someone in Downpatrick might tell us!

On the other hand look at some dual clubs like Gort, Rossa, Lamh Dearg, Sarsfields and maybe Clooney/Aghohill etc - they promote both codes equally and so are hardly standing on the steps of Casement regularly at senior level?!
In 1988 St Johns won the football (whilst having a strong hurling side) and Rossa won the hurling (while having a strong football side). This has not happened in a single year since - thats nearly a quarter of a century ago guys! And I dont see it changing anytime soon! St Johns did the double in the 60s I dont think this will ever be repeated!

In summary - I obviously know that there are many factors at play in determining a clubs success - but I think a major one is whether or not they are a dual club. And the influence of this factor has grown since the 60/70/80s when clubs could win both championships. I think it will continue to more and more apparent.

After all, Loughiel have a massive number of players and two pitches - if they were in someway forced to introduce football I bet the major objection would be (and rightly) "No - becasue it will affect hurling fortunes". Thats says it all.

To finish - single code clubs by definition can focus on one goal - they have a huge advantage over dual code clubs serving two masters and having split loyalties.
Anyone who disputes that...
Well I don't know...

[Jeepers Creepers]

I think putting it simply, if your a single code club an your good enough, you'll win titles. If not, then.... My Personal issue with Dual code (being a member of one) is having a player/players at junvenille level who is handy with the stick and football. They are playing both codes at say u-16, also brought up to the minor squad as well. Throw in school games (probably representing various year groups) and throw in development squads! When squads are getting smaller alot is being asked, but as a coach you want your strongest squad at all times which might take away your personable view of being able to give that player a break!?!
Im very proud of being from a dual club but it is very difficult to manage, nevermind getting into the financial & logistical aspects.

[DearyMe]

The word 'disadvantage' was a poor choice!