Missing Plane!!

[muppet]

I know nothing about any of this stuff, but if the plane hit the water belly first, wouldn't that suggest they had some control on it at that point?

'The more you know, the more you know you don't know' ~ anonymous

As information comes out in bits and pieces it seems to only raise more questions.

They say it hit belly first but they don't know the status of the engines, the wings, controls surfaces, hydraulic systems that move the control surfaces or the computers that send the info (via the infamous fly-by-wire) to the servos etc.. 

They know the fuselage hit intact and belly first, but that is about all.

[full back]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8151327.stm


Is crashes more common or are they just getting more coverage now?

[Iceberg]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8151327.stm


Is crashes more common or are they just getting more coverage now?

Starting to think that myself, there seems to be a plane crashing every other week now.

[ziggysego]

Terrible news.

How many plane crashes has there been in Ireland in recent months. A hell of a lot.

[Tyrones own]

More interesting if not damning news for Airbus to deal with.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1200132/LIVE-SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-The-series-mysterious-Airbus-330-accidents-culminating-tragic-loss-Air-France-Flight-447.html

[thebigfella]

More interesting if not damning news for Airbus to deal with.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1200132/LIVE-SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-The-series-mysterious-Airbus-330-accidents-culminating-tragic-loss-Air-France-Flight-447.html

A crap article, written by a 2 year old 

Thats all I'm saying

[muppet]

More interesting if not damning news for Airbus to deal with.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1200132/LIVE-SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-The-series-mysterious-Airbus-330-accidents-culminating-tragic-loss-Air-France-Flight-447.html

The worst kind of sensationalist crap I've seen in a long time.

The references were 'a musician', a 'retired crash investigator' working for the relatives of the victims (his job is to maximize compensation not to find the cause - no credible investigator would speak like that until the final report is out) and 'an airman' who sounds suspiciously like a typical retired Boeing pilot who has never flown an Airbus.

[orangeman]

I don't know anything about this stuff but all I know is that it is scary.


Does the pilot basically just do the take off and landing ?? Auto pilot from then on.

[muppet]

I don't know anything about this stuff but all I know is that it is scary.


Does the pilot basically just do the take off and landing ?? Auto pilot from then on.

In the same way as your computer posts on this site and you do nothing.

[orangeman]

I don't know anything about this stuff but all I know is that it is scary.


Does the pilot basically just do the take off and landing ?? Auto pilot from then on.

In the same way as your computer posts on this site and you do nothing.

Good enough. Point taken.

[muppet]

There are many myths about Airbus and their computers, a lot of which start in Seattle.

The article says that while cruising an aircraft has a 70 knot speed window (this varies for each aircraft type and with weight, altitude and temperature) within which it must remain. Too fast and you get too close to the speed of sound (bits start breaking off), too slow and there isn't enough air going over the wings to keep flying so you stall and start to fall out of the sky.

This is simple physics and applies to any aircraft.

It is the responsibility of the pilots to ensure that the aircraft flies at a safe speed for the altitude and conditions. While that journalist thinks the pilots are enjoying the scenery they will be constantly (among other things that a Daily Mail hack wouldn't be interested in)  assessing their computer calculated cruise speed versus the conditions (e.g. turbulence, unusual temperatures for the altitude etc.) and may override the computer speed. This happens frequently and is perfectly normal.

However if for some reason the aircraft exceeds either the upper or lower speed limit the aircraft computers will automatically take corrective action and this is different from a Boeing. In the event of an overspeed the computer will pull the nose up and in the event of a stall the computer will apply full power and lower the nose. Both of these actions temporarily override any pilot inputs, however these are precisely the actions that the pilots should already have taken for those events.

[orangeman]

Muppet - what did / do you make of this bit and the piece in bold in particular ?


The last ECAM warning recorded by the ACARS, at 2.14am, is the most chilling. It simply said, 'ADVISORY CABIN VERTICAL SPEED'. In other words, the plane was heading downwards, with uncontrolled rapidity.

Damage to some of the recovered parts, such as the galley shelves, shows they were compressed by the forces of impact. So were the passengers: according to one source close to the investigation, many of the 51 bodies found to date have broken pelvises, caused by the upward force of their seats on their bones as the plane hit the water.

There was a half-moon, but beneath the 50,000ft-high clouds, it would not have been visible. On the way down, the winds must have been immense. It's likely that, deprived of all means to ascertain their position, the crew flew the plane into the waves of the Atlantic with no idea where they were.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1200132/LIVE-SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-The-series-mysterious-Airbus-330-accidents-culminating-tragic-loss-Air-France-Flight-447.html#ixzz0MH3HJ7Mo

[muppet]

Muppet - what did / do you make of this bit and the piece in bold in particular ?


The last ECAM warning recorded by the ACARS, at 2.14am, is the most chilling. It simply said, ''. In other words, the plane was heading downwards, with uncontrolled rapidity.

Damage to some of the recovered parts, such as the galley shelves, shows they were compressed by the forces of impact. So were the passengers: according to one source close to the investigation, many of the 51 bodies found to date have broken pelvises, caused by the upward force of their seats on their bones as the plane hit the water.

There was a half-moon, but beneath the 50,000ft-high clouds, it would not have been visible. On the way down, the winds must have been immense. It's likely that, deprived of all means to ascertain their position, the crew flew the plane into the waves of the Atlantic with no idea where they were.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1200132/LIVE-SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-The-series-mysterious-Airbus-330-accidents-culminating-tragic-loss-Air-France-Flight-447.html#ixzz0MH3HJ7Mo

It's like listening to Ger Canning, you can't believe you are watching the same game.

Firstly an 'ADVISORY CABIN VERTICAL SPEED' means that the aircraft is descending faster than the cabin pressure controllers can cope with. Despite how that may sound it is a relatively benign warning that, in normal circumstances, would mean the pilots should simply reduce the rate of descent of the aircraft to allow the cabin time to descend. Failure to do so would, at worst, cause the aircraft to 'catch the cabin' which would pop everyones ears and cause some pain for those with colds and/or sinus problems, but that's all. (catching the cabin means the actual altitude would equal the cabin altitude, normally the aircraft actual altitude is way above the cabin altitude e.g aircraft at 37,000' the cabin might be at 8,000')

In this case it may be a symptom of a greater problem and it may not. The journalist however has decided it is 'the most chilling' warning. This type of warning is very common on some Boeings (737 in particular )and while rare on an Airbus it is usually no big deal when it occurs.

The bit in bold is sensationalise. To suggest 'the crew flew the plane into the water' suggests they had some control. I don't believe they had any control at all otherwise they would have kept the thing up. Even without instruments pilots can keep an aircraft flying simply by setting 'pitch and power' from memory or off a checklist. Doing a landing in such circumstances would be tough but keeping it airborne should be staightforward.

[Bogball XV]

I don't know anything about this stuff but all I know is that it is scary.


Does the pilot basically just do the take off and landing ?? Auto pilot from then on.

In the same way as your computer posts on this site and you do nothing.

With Orangeman's post count I'd imagine auto pilot is always engaged.

[orangeman]

Muppet - what did / do you make of this bit and the piece in bold in particular ?


The last ECAM warning recorded by the ACARS, at 2.14am, is the most chilling. It simply said, ''. In other words, the plane was heading downwards, with uncontrolled rapidity.

Damage to some of the recovered parts, such as the galley shelves, shows they were compressed by the forces of impact. So were the passengers: according to one source close to the investigation, many of the 51 bodies found to date have broken pelvises, caused by the upward force of their seats on their bones as the plane hit the water.

There was a half-moon, but beneath the 50,000ft-high clouds, it would not have been visible. On the way down, the winds must have been immense. It's likely that, deprived of all means to ascertain their position, the crew flew the plane into the waves of the Atlantic with no idea where they were.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1200132/LIVE-SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-The-series-mysterious-Airbus-330-accidents-culminating-tragic-loss-Air-France-Flight-447.html#ixzz0MH3HJ7Mo

It's like listening to Ger Canning, you can't believe you are watching the same game.

Firstly an 'ADVISORY CABIN VERTICAL SPEED' means that the aircraft is descending faster than the cabin pressure controllers can cope with. Despite how that may sound it is a relatively benign warning that, in normal circumstances, would mean the pilots should simply reduce the rate of descent of the aircraft to allow the cabin time to descend. Failure to do so would, at worst, cause the aircraft to 'catch the cabin' which would pop everyones ears and cause some pain for those with colds and/or sinus problems, but that's all. (catching the cabin means the actual altitude would equal the cabin altitude, normally the aircraft actual altitude is way above the cabin altitude e.g aircraft at 37,000' the cabin might be at 8,000')

In this case it may be a symptom of a greater problem and it may not. The journalist however has decided it is 'the most chilling' warning. This type of warning is very common on some Boeings (737 in particular )and while rare on an Airbus it is usually no big deal when it occurs.

The bit in bold is sensationalise. To suggest 'the crew flew the plane into the water' suggests they had some control. I don't believe they had any control at all otherwise they would have kept the thing up. Even without instruments pilots can keep an aircraft flying simply by setting 'pitch and power' from memory or off a checklist. Doing a landing in such circumstances would be tough but keeping it airborne should be staightforward.

Are you with the conspiracy theorists who reckon they actually have recovered the black box but it doesn't suit to tell the world what happened ?

Personally I don't think they were able to locate the Black box due to the terrain.