The Many Faces of US Politics...

[give her dixie]

Did anyone see this video that has appeared showing US troops in Bagdad killing unarmed civilians,
including 2 Reuters press men.

Listen to them laugh at the sight of dead men, and show no mercy for children caught up in the attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaqY12VHFv4

[Declan]

Saw that alright - Frightening stuff but Wikileaks says it will shortly release a second secret US military video showing the deaths of civilians in an attack in Afghanistan. The Pentagon has been seeking ways to prevent classified material appearing on Wikileaks, including through "criminal sanctions". Wikileaks has made public classified US army reports on weapons, military units and battle strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Saw this quote on a report:
The Pentagon report, reflecting the depth of paranoia about where Wikileaks is obtaining its material, speculates that the CIA may be responsible. But perhaps most embarrassing leak for the US defence department was that of the 2008 report itself which appeared on the Wikileaks site last month

[give her dixie]

And then then are these brave US soldiers running amok in Afghanistan.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7087637.ece


US special forces soldiers dug bullets out of their victims' bodies in the bloody aftermath of a botched night raid, then washed the wounds with alcohol before lying to their superiors about what happened, Afghan investigators have told The Times.

Two pregnant women, a teenage girl, a police officer and his brother were shot on February 12 when US and Afghan special forces stormed their home in Khataba village, outside Gardez in eastern Afghanistan. The precise composition of the force has never been made public.

The claims were made as Nato admitted responsibility for all the deaths for the first time last night. It had initially claimed that the women had been dead for several hours when the assault force discovered their bodies.

"Despite earlier reports we have determined that the women were accidentally killed as a result of the joint force firing at the men," said Lieutenant-Colonel Todd Breasseale, a Nato spokesman. The coalition continued to deny that there had been a cover-up and said that its legal investigation, which is ongoing, had found no evidence of inappropriate conduct.

The Kabul headquarters of General Stanley McChrystal, the commander of US and Nato forces, claimed originally that the women had been "tied up, gagged and killed".

A senior Afghan official involved in a government investigation told The Times: "I think the special forces lied to McChrystal."

"Why did the special forces collect their bullets from the area?" the official said. "They washed the area of the injuries with alcohol and brought out the bullets from the dead bodies. The bodies showed there were big holes."

The official, who asked not to be named until the results of the investigation have been made public, said that the assault force sealed off the compound from 4am, when the raid started, to 11am, when Afghan officials from Gardez were finally allowed access to the house.

At least 11 bullets were fired during the raid, the investigator said, and the shooting was carried out by two American gunmen positioned on the roof of the compound. Only seven bullets were recovered from the scene.

"I asked McChrystal, 'why did the Americans clean some of the bullets from the area?' They don't have the right to do that," the official said.

Haji Sharabuddin, the head of the family who were attacked, told The Times last month that troops removed bullets from his relatives' bodies, but his claims were impossible to verify. The hallway where four of the five victims were killed had been repainted and at least two bullet holes had been plastered over.

Video footage of the raid's aftermath, collected by Afghan investigators, shows close-up shots of one man's bloodstained and punctured torso and walls with blood on them. The Afghan official's conclusion that the bullets were removed is based on the testimony of survivors, analysis of the photographs and the missing bullets.

Nato promised a joint forensic investigation in a statement issued after the raid, but Rear Admiral Greg Smith, the coalition's director of communications in Afghanistan, said that this had proved impossible because the bodies were buried the same day in accordance with Islamic custom.

Instead Afghanistan's Ministry of Interior sent its top criminal investigator from Kabul, and a Canadian brigadier-general led a separate military inquiry.

The Afghan investigation differed in one respect from The Times' findings. Survivors told this newspaper that Saranwal Zahir, the police officer's brother, was shot when he tried to shout that his family was innocent. The women, who were crouching behind him, were killed in the same volley of fire. Afghan investigators believe that Mr Zahir was carrying an AK47 and wanted to avenge his brother's killers. The women were clustered around him, trying to pull him inside the house, when the second US gunman opened fire, killing all four of them.

Footage collected by the Afghan team also shows a man in United States Army uniform taking pictures of the bodies. The findings have not been made public. The Interior Ministry is expected to pass a report to the Attorney-General's office, which will decide whether or not it can press criminal charges.

The family had more than 25 guests on the night of the attack, as well as three musicians, to celebrate the naming of a newborn child.

"In what culture in the world do you invite ... people for a party and meanwhile kill three women?" asked the senior official. "The dead bodies were just eight metres from where they were preparing the food. The Americans, they told us the women were dead for 14 hours."

In a statement yesterday, Brigadier-General Eric Tremblay, a Nato spokesman, said: "We deeply regret the outcome of this operation, accept responsibility for our actions that night, and know that this loss will be felt forever by the families.

"The force went to the compound based on reliable information in search of a Taleban insurgent, and believed that the two men posed a threat to their personal safety. We now understand that the men killed were only trying to protect their families."

[Hedley Lamarr]

Did anyone see this video that has appeared showing US troops in Bagdad killing unarmed civilians,
including 2 Reuters press men.

Listen to them laugh at the sight of dead men, and show no mercy for children caught up in the attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaqY12VHFv4

Murder pure and simple ...... ....and some on here wonder why there is so much hatred for America

[heganboy]

Murder pure and simple ...... ....and some on here wonder why there is so much hatred for America

Hedley- do you really think this is an issue because the soldiers are American, or is it because they are soldiers that have been in a war zone for so long with no chance of winning and completely ignored their orders- yes murder- I dont know how you can say its because they are americans. Soldiers in every war zone in the history of war have committed what can perceived as an attrocity.

Americans are a convenient target for many

[heganboy]

J70, not sure on this but you will probably end up as my friend mentioned above had to do,  he negotiated with the hospital. As I said the cost is where the problem lies over here, the care itself is very good.
What I forgot to add when referring to the cost here is that $650 a month was in addition to what the employer has to pay so you are close to $1500 for the month for health insurance, the cost is crippling families and employers alike.

I think this is one of the issues that we havent really talked about here. the cost of health care has such an impact on families that many simply opt out of paying it, and depending on how easy it is to sue a heathcare provider (doctor hospital nurse etc) in your state, the cost can spiral. I know that my payments for healthcare are significantly higher than those quoted above.

There is the concept of duty of care here in New York which means that any hospital must provide the care necessary to stabilize a patient- in many cases this means that the patient will then be transferred to another health care provider.

[lynchbhoy]

how are things in the u s of a ?

are change
hope
etc etc still wowing people ?


I expect theres full employment by now

good to see the nasdaq and dow back to pre-collapse levels this past couple of months at least

[dec]

There is the concept of duty of care here in New York which means that any hospital must provide the care necessary to stabilize a patient- in many cases this means that the patient will then be transferred to another health care provider.

There is a requirement on almost all hospitals to provide emergency treatment (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act). However as you mention it only requires treatment until they are stable. "A patient is defined as "stable," therefore ending a hospital's EMTALA obligations, if: ...Any conditions that are immediately life-threatening, limb-threatening, or organ-threatening have been treated to the best of the hospital's ability"

This only covers a small percentage of medical treatment ie. stuff that would have you going straight to the ER rather than your GP.

[Tyrones own]

how are things in the u s of a ?

are change
hope
etc etc still wowing people ?


I expect theres full employment by now

good to see the nasdaq and dow back to pre-collapse levels this past couple of months at least

Yes LB, unfortunately there are still an astronomical number of sheep that are s t i l l  buying his crap,
Though there is a remarked reduction in Obama / Biden '08 bumper stickers on the freeways here I have to say so who knows, the blinkers could be slipping.
As for the unemployment numbers....if truth be told we're probably closer to twice the 9.7%
that the media are pedaling, but sure whatever it takes to keep the dream alive!

[Hedley Lamarr]

Murder pure and simple ...... ....and some on here wonder why there is so much hatred for America

Hedley- do you really think this is an issue because the soldiers are American, or is it because they are soldiers that have been in a war zone for so long with no chance of winning and completely ignored their orders- yes murder- I dont know how you can say its because they are americans. Soldiers in every war zone in the history of war have committed what can perceived as an attrocity.

Americans are a convenient target for many

Its an issue because it is murder, and they did not ignore orders, they asked for permission to engage and were given the green light.....the fact that those on the apache helicopter could not tell the difference between a camera and an RPG beggars belief.
The fact that Americans are a convenient target for many.....your words.....is because of their behaviour and the cover ups.
Do you believe the people of Iraq or Afghanistan are better off now than before American interference?   

[longrunsthefox]

This is no surprise. These murders are probably a regular occurance. Is like the LAPD beating Rodney King..  the only shock was the cameras caught it.  It happened all the time. 

[muppet]

This is no surprise. These murders are probably a regular occurance. Is like the LAPD beating Rodney King..  the only shock was the cameras caught it.  It happened all the time.

Yes but it's Obama's fault. See above....

[heganboy]

The fact that Americans are a convenient target for many.....your words.....is because of their behaviour and the cover ups.

Murder- see for example:
British in any country in the "empire" (including the colonies)
Germans in any country they occupied in WWII
Dutch in Africa
French in Northern Africa
Japanese in WWII
Belgians in the congo
Russians in the USSR etc
The Crusades

behaviour and cover ups- see above

Do you believe the people of Iraq or Afghanistan are better off now than before American interference?

Dont know- haven't been in touch with many iraqis or afghanis that have been under both regimes- those that were under the previous that I do know swear it couldnt have been worse- but as always that is the immigrants curse.

[deiseach]

Do you believe the people of Iraq or Afghanistan are better off now than before American interference?

Dead Iraqi Would Have Loved Democracy

[tyssam5]

Do you believe the people of Iraq or Afghanistan are better off now than before American interference?

Dead Iraqi Would Have Loved Democracy

Was about to post along those lines. There definitely about 100k people for whom the pre-invasion situation was infinitely better.