The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Rossfan]

+1.

[Milltown Row2]

Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland?

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Without America there'd have been no Anglo Irish Agreement (Thatcher openly admitted it was the yanks that made her sign it) and likely no Good Friday Agreement either. The MacBride Principles brought American economic pressure to end discriminatory employment practices in the north. 20% of employment in the free state is dependent on US investment.

America matters in Ireland, whether you know it or not.

Eamon keep telling yourself that and you'll believe it.. Do you think those American companies should be paying the correct taxes?

So Thatcher would have signed the AIA without American intervention? The MacBride Principles didn't help to end discrimination? 20% of jobs in the free state don't depend on US investment? What exactly are you trying to argue here?

(We're not talking about taxation.)

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?

20 percent of those jobs? can you give me a link to that ?

As for fair employment NI had this started in 76, amendments came in 88, then improved in 98, the Macbride principals may have speeded things up, but mechanisms were in place.

I've never looked at America as a place that actually improved us, we gave them plenty of people over the years that may have made improvements on their soil but that's it!

So let me get this straight, and answer this separately please. America brought about the peace process?

[LCohen]

Would be good to hear the Trump supporter views on the latest from the great man and his campaign.

The misuse of the Fauci quote would be embarrassing to any other man/campaign. These guys are determined to style it out.

Trump's claim that he is immune to Covid now proves the man hasn't the slightest understanding of what it is that he is supposed to be managing. And he has had the virus.

Paying people to attend your rally looks bad. Should there even be rallies during a pandemic?

[Hound]

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?

American companies do pay the right tax in Ireland.

Do you think every American company got a ruling the same as Apple? And the only companies who got rulings were American?

Apple's structure was from 1980, and was very unusual.

The Facebooks, Googles, Twitters, etc all pay exactly the right amount of tax on their Irish profits. 12.5% the same as everyone else.
Did many American companies avoid US tax by legally moving their IP from the US to a haven, and thus having the haven enjoy all the super profits from their IP at 0%?
- Yes, but they paid the right amount of Irish tax and now with changes brought about by the OECD and EU, the haven structures no longer work.

US companies are paying a huge amount of Irish corporation tax now (not to mention their contribution to payroll taxes and VAT), and they are the reason our current deficit isn't as bad as feared. 

[Franko]

I see MR2 is on another one of these crusades where he actively navigates to a thread on a discussion board and starts telling people that they shouldn't be discussing the topic.

Genuinely weird behaviour.

[Milltown Row2]

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?

American companies do pay the right tax in Ireland.

Do you think every American company got a ruling the same as Apple? And the only companies who got rulings were American?

Apple's structure was from 1980, and was very unusual.

The Facebooks, Googles, Twitters, etc all pay exactly the right amount of tax on their Irish profits. 12.5% the same as everyone else.
Did many American companies avoid US tax by legally moving their IP from the US to a haven, and thus having the haven enjoy all the super profits from their IP at 0%?
- Yes, but they paid the right amount of Irish tax and now with changes brought about by the OECD and EU, the haven structures no longer work.

US companies are paying a huge amount of Irish corporation tax now (not to mention their contribution to payroll taxes and VAT), and they are the reason our current deficit isn't as bad as feared.

Apple's unusual agreement

Apple used this new capital allowance scheme in 2016 to shift its intellectual property out of Jersey into Ireland. This onshoring of €300bn of capital created the infamous 26% growth in Irish GDP. But this is little more than leprechaun economics – using Ireland as a treasure island for storing the intangible capital assets of big-tech multinational enterprises. And until the EU creates common laws that make tax avoidance in member states illegal, small sovereign states will continue to play an important role in helping global corporations minimise the tax they pay.

[Milltown Row2]

I see MR2 is on another one of these crusades where he actively navigates to a thread on a discussion board and starts telling people that they shouldn't be discussing the topic.

Genuinely weird behaviour.

Which is weird behaviour ?

You coming in behind me on posts ? Look I'm not interested

[Hound]

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?

American companies do pay the right tax in Ireland.

Do you think every American company got a ruling the same as Apple? And the only companies who got rulings were American?

Apple's structure was from 1980, and was very unusual.

The Facebooks, Googles, Twitters, etc all pay exactly the right amount of tax on their Irish profits. 12.5% the same as everyone else.
Did many American companies avoid US tax by legally moving their IP from the US to a haven, and thus having the haven enjoy all the super profits from their IP at 0%?
- Yes, but they paid the right amount of Irish tax and now with changes brought about by the OECD and EU, the haven structures no longer work.

US companies are paying a huge amount of Irish corporation tax now (not to mention their contribution to payroll taxes and VAT), and they are the reason our current deficit isn't as bad as feared.

Apple's unusual agreement

Apple used this new capital allowance scheme in 2016 to shift its intellectual property out of Jersey into Ireland. This onshoring of €300bn of capital created the infamous 26% growth in Irish GDP. But this is little more than leprechaun economics – using Ireland as a treasure island for storing the intangible capital assets of big-tech multinational enterprises. And until the EU creates common laws that make tax avoidance in member states illegal, small sovereign states will continue to play an important role in helping global corporations minimise the tax they pay.

Just so everyone is clear, the movement of IP into Ireland is nothing to do with the "Apple case"

Many Irish companies have bought IP in recent years. There is no other territory that says companies should not be able to claim capital allowances on IP acquired.

This is new economy stuff. For decades and decades any company could claim capital allowances on assets purchased. This would typically have been machinery or plant, but now includes intellectual property. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and many (most?) countries allow similar.

The great benefit of moving IP into Ireland (in addition to the profits and tax that also move to Ireland) is that substance must now follow the IP. Under old rules you could have a haven owing IP, no people in the haven and super-profits in the haven. But now if you have little substance you'd be taxed at a higher rate, would be ineligible for the capital allowances and group companies making payments to the IP company would get no tax deductions. So MNCs have to move their IP to locations with substance or where they intend to put substance.

So for the likes of Apple and others who already employ thousands in Ireland, moving their IP to Ireland was ideal. Many other companies have moved their IP to Ireland and are now employing many more people. More jobs, more tax, no tax avoidance.

[J70]

Would be good to hear the Trump supporter views on the latest from the great man and his campaign.

The misuse of the Fauci quote would be embarrassing to any other man/campaign. These guys are determined to style it out.

Trump's claim that he is immune to Covid now proves the man hasn't the slightest understanding of what it is that he is supposed to be managing. And he has had the virus.

Paying people to attend your rally looks bad. Should there even be rallies during a pandemic?

At this point, what are they going to say? What can they say? I guess, in their deluded, misinformed, paranoid views, he's better than the commie libtards and "experts" who are going to turn their kids gay, take their guns away and ban christianity and the speaking of English.

Even his campaign are basically throwing in the towel.

All they've got left are Hillary's emails and supposedly, any day now I tell ya, appalling and devastating revelations that her campaign pushed the Trump's campaign's Russian connections to deflect from her own troubles.

We haven't had Hunter Biden since the debate. Maybe he'll be lofted back at the wall again too.

Most presidents seeking re-election run on their record. Trump hasn't got anything useful or non-detrimental with respect to re-election in his. So its false victimhood, misrepresentation and conspiracy theories.

Most times and places, at least in recent history, that would be that. Given the state of the US right wing, unfortunately, as well as the electoral college system, he could still win.

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/183ca929-3cbe-4705-a92a-d65a806741b5

An FT analysis of recent state polls gives Mr Biden an almost seven-point advantage in both Michigan and Pennsylvania, and a six-point edge in Wisconsin — three Midwestern states that were crucial in Mr Trump's come-from-behind victory in 2016

[sid waddell]

https://www.ft.com/content/183ca929-3cbe-4705-a92a-d65a806741b5

An FT analysis of recent state polls gives Mr Biden an almost seven-point advantage in both Michigan and Pennsylvania, and a six-point edge in Wisconsin — three Midwestern states that were crucial in Mr Trump's come-from-behind victory in 2016

The final poll spread in Wisconsin in 2016 was Clinton +6.5

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/wi/wisconsin_trump_vs_clinton-5659.html#polls

I suspect that was a broadly accurate representation of public opinion and voter opinion there

Which is very worrying for this election

Polls cannot factor in voter suppression or voter falsification or vote binning or "legal" chicanery

Unless and until Biden is sworn in on January 20th, this is a fight to the death and the only rule is that there are no rules - Trump has decided that

[Eamonnca1]

Is this the most toxic thread on the board? I know we have a few ex pats living there and that's fine, but I fail to see the immediate interests of locals here on a country that really plays no large part in our political lives.

GFA
Brexit
Border
EU Trade Deals (US is Irelands largest exporter partner)
J1 Visas
Green Cards
Medical Research
US companies going back to US reducing jobs (over 100,000 Irish employees)
Investment into local economy by building US company offices/buildings (multi-billion)

All depend on who is in the White House and Congress.

Do those America companies pay tax on Ireland?

Green card J1's.. seriously?

The border? Trump would build a wall round it..

Medical research? Flip sake cause they do it for free!

Are they helping with brexit or make money off the back of it?

Trade deals in chlorine rinsed chicken

Hume/Trimble Bertie and Blair Mo and Andrews with former Senator George as mediator. But yes it was America that did it!

Without America we'd still be in cottages burning turf eating spuds!

Without America there'd have been no Anglo Irish Agreement (Thatcher openly admitted it was the yanks that made her sign it) and likely no Good Friday Agreement either. The MacBride Principles brought American economic pressure to end discriminatory employment practices in the north. 20% of employment in the free state is dependent on US investment.

America matters in Ireland, whether you know it or not.

Eamon keep telling yourself that and you'll believe it.. Do you think those American companies should be paying the correct taxes?

So Thatcher would have signed the AIA without American intervention? The MacBride Principles didn't help to end discrimination? 20% of jobs in the free state don't depend on US investment? What exactly are you trying to argue here?

(We're not talking about taxation.)

It's a simple question, do you believe that the American companies that have changed Ireland  ; pay the right taxes? And as a result Ireland benefit because of the tax Breaks we give them?

20 percent of those jobs? can you give me a link to that ?

As for fair employment NI had this started in 76, amendments came in 88, then improved in 98, the Macbride principals may have speeded things up, but mechanisms were in place.

I've never looked at America as a place that actually improved us, we gave them plenty of people over the years that may have made improvements on their soil but that's it!

So let me get this straight, and answer this separately please. America brought about the peace process?

Corporate taxation in Ireland is something I'll be happy to discuss on another thread.

The source of the 20% of investment figure is here:

https://center-forward.org/united-states-foreign-direct-investment-in-ireland/

As recently as the 1980s catholics were still twice as likely to be unemployed as protestants. Some measures like the Fair Employment Agency were in place, but they were not immediately effective. The MacBride Principles put British ministers on the back foot and forced them to deal with the reality of anti-catholic discrimination in the north and do something about it that was going to actually work. According to recently declassified papers:

'Fair employment' campaign for Catholics alarmed British in 1985

"British government concern at the success of an Irish-American campaign to have the "MacBride principles" on fair employment in Northern Ireland adopted by US companies is revealed in declassified State papers.

In their attempts to counter the escalating campaign, Northern Ireland officials were forced to concede privately that much more needed to be done to counter anti-Catholic discrimination in the North.

The MacBride principles, drawn up by former Irish foreign minister and Nobel prizewinner Seán MacBride, included provision for affirmative action in the workplace to tackle Catholic under-representation, protection for minority employees at work and "the banning of provocative religious and political emblems".

In a memo to officials headed "Disinvestment from the USA", dated January 28th, 1985, JM Lyon of the Northern Ireland Office (NIO) noted: "The Irish National Caucus (INC) in the USA are seeking to persuade American companies to withdraw from their investments in NI.

"This is potentially extremely damaging and we are making every effort to thwart them."

He noted that the INC was close to Noraid in the US. Lyon reported that the INC was seeking to exploit the MacBride Principles in two ways: "First, they had promoted a Bill in New York City Council which would compel the city's pension funds to withdraw investments from any company in NI which did not implement the principles."

Support
Second, the Sisters of St Joseph of Peace in the US were conducting a campaign to encourage shareholders in US companies operating in Northern Ireland to oblige their companies to enforce the principles. Lyon concluded: "The threat to American companies in NI is real. There are at present 12, all of which may be vulnerable."

These included Gallahers, Ford, Dupont and General Motors. There was a tangible threat to companies thinking of investing in NI, he noted.

     
Damning critique
On February 11th, 1985, AJ Merifield disputed claims by his colleagues that the government's fair employment legislation and the work of its Fair Employment Agency (FEA) had "acted effectively to counter discrimination". He went on: "This may be true in general terms but I believe the MacBride principles are aimed at a more serious structural problem and one in which we have made only limited progress during Direct Rule . . ."

Merifield pointed out "virtually no change has taken place in the relative employment patterns by religious affiliation since 1971". Among other things, Catholics were found to be under-represented in the manufacturing sector while Protestants continued to dominate the most prestigious and strategic industries.

Merifield told his colleagues that, in 1983, 36 per cent of economically active Catholic males were unemployed, compared with 14 per cent of their Protestant counterparts, adding: "We can argue that fair employment legislation has its part to play, but its impact on the immediate position of Catholic jobs is slow" while they could not claim too much for the FEA legislation.

Finally the NIO was later faced with the publication by comptroller Harold Goldwin of New York council of a report on employment patterns in Northern Ireland, which David Fell of the department of commerce at Stormont condemned as "selective, unbalanced and simplistic" in a March 13th, 1985, memo."

As for America, the peace process would have been a lot harder to bring about without American involvement. A lot of stars aligned during that time, as Sinn Fein had stated at the time. We had Albert Reynolds as Taoiseach, a man with a business background rather than the traditional background of southern politicians, no baggage, and a shrewd problem-solving level-headed approach. He was willing to unashamedly back the nationalist cause while working with John Major to create an avenue for Sinn Fein to enter the process politically. Then we had Tony Blair as UK Prime Minister, a rare case of a British PM who actually knew something about Ireland and understood the nature of the problem. And we had Bill Clinton in the White House, who, for all his faults, understood the importance of sorting out regional conflicts and was willing to use American diplomatic heft to get the job done. Senator Mitchell was a pivotal figure in the negotiations. He could keep a cool head when all around him were losing theirs.

There were many factors that brought the peace process about. Many people who made it happen. But you cannot deny that America had a huge role to play in it.

[LCohen]

Would be good to hear the Trump supporter views on the latest from the great man and his campaign.

The misuse of the Fauci quote would be embarrassing to any other man/campaign. These guys are determined to style it out.

Trump's claim that he is immune to Covid now proves the man hasn't the slightest understanding of what it is that he is supposed to be managing. And he has had the virus.

Paying people to attend your rally looks bad. Should there even be rallies during a pandemic?

At this point, what are they going to say? What can they say? I guess, in their deluded, misinformed, paranoid views, he's better than the commie libtards and "experts" who are going to turn their kids gay, take their guns away and ban christianity and the speaking of English.

Even his campaign are basically throwing in the towel.

All they've got left are Hillary's emails and supposedly, any day now I tell ya, appalling and devastating revelations that her campaign pushed the Trump's campaign's Russian connections to deflect from her own troubles.

We haven't had Hunter Biden since the debate. Maybe he'll be lofted back at the wall again too.

Most presidents seeking re-election run on their record. Trump hasn't got anything useful or non-detrimental with respect to re-election in his. So its false victimhood, misrepresentation and conspiracy theories.

Most times and places, at least in recent history, that would be that. Given the state of the US right wing, unfortunately, as well as the electoral college system, he could still win.

I know that Trump fans are keen to have fact based examinations of track record and I know that his friends on this thread are keen to have a full and frank but well mannered debate so I would have thought they felt duty bound to front up with something.

On Covid it's clear that Trump is clueless. He has no concept of the enormity of the issue. So I would expect his friends to explain how that is not the case or explain that it's either good or at least unimportant that POTUS doesn't understand this issue.

[RedHand88]

1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

[LCohen]

1245 pages, what will we have by mid November?

A sane president would be a good start