The Many Faces of US Politics...

[J70]

Looting is self-defeating. Rioting obviously too. And there are enough cameras around now to publicize police over-reaction to peaceful demonstrations.

All this stuff plays out in a political landscape. Like it or not, some small independent business owner or chain franchisee and their employees are not going to be too sympathetic to people who target random businesses for arson or looting. And it gives the likes of Trump, who is probably juicing himself every time someone's store is destroyed, an easy headline and campaign football. BLM had a huge amount of goodwill on their side in the aftermath of George Floyd's death. Rioting and looting only erodes that goodwill. Whether or not you think that is justified, it is a fact.

One would hope that, absent the emergence of even more police brutality videos, that things start to settle down now given the deaths in Portland and Kenosha.

Trump will have a problem if it does settle down. COVID is about to hit the headlines again as the autumn school term starts.

[Gmac]

The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.

I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

i bet Sid is on all kinds of blm , antifa platforms talking about burning it all down and other complete shite all from the comfort of mommies basement 3000 miles away .

[sid waddell]

The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.

I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

i bet Sid is on all kinds of blm , antifa platforms talking about burning it all down and other complete shite all from the comfort of mommies basement 3000 miles away .

Thanks for that considered contribution

You're doing a superb job of exposing your own lack of argument

[Rudi]

The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.

I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

i bet Sid is on all kinds of blm , antifa platforms talking about burning it all down and other complete shite all from the comfort of mommies basement 3000 miles away .

Thanks for that considered contribution

You're doing a superb job of exposing your own lack of argument

Thats the pot calling the kettle black 

[sid waddell]

In reality this is not a close race by historical standards

Biden is well ahead in terms of actual support

But the problem here is that 538 also says that a 3% point national margin only gives Biden a 46% chance of winning the electoral college

And that's without vote falsification

Biden certainly needs to at least hold this margin steady

https://twitter.com/baseballot/status/1301535816532058112

The @FiveThirtyEight nat'l polling average with 61 days until E-Day:

2020: Biden+7.3*
2016: Clinton+3.0
2012: Obama+0.2*
2008: Obama+4.0*
2004: Bush+5.2*
2000: Gore+2.8
1996: Clinton+14.7
1992: Clinton+7.0
1988: Bush+4.4
1984: Reagan+21.3*
1980: Reagan+1.8*
1976: Carter+13.3
4:01 PM · Sep 3, 2020

[sid waddell]

The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.

I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

i bet Sid is on all kinds of blm , antifa platforms talking about burning it all down and other complete shite all from the comfort of mommies basement 3000 miles away .

Thanks for that considered contribution

You're doing a superb job of exposing your own lack of argument

Thats the pot calling the kettle black 

I understand the issues and give solid, reasoned arguments, if somebody has abhorrent opinions I don't spare their feelings, I don't respect stupid opinions that don't deserve any respect

That really annoys a lot of people, you're obviously among them

[Eamonnca1]

BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.

Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a few broken windows but doesn't care about black people being slaughtered by cops needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

That's bs. If I went round my neighbourhood and started smashing windows and lifting TVs out of houses would that be ok? Woukd anyone who tried to stop me be or disagreed be a racist?

Killing black people is not okay. Why are you so reticent about speaking up about this but are far more outspoken in your condemnation of destruction of property?

[Eamonnca1]

BLM becomes a double edged sword when it goes along with looting and smashing up businesses.

Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a few broken windows but doesn't care about black people being slaughtered by cops needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

That's bs. If I went round my neighbourhood and started smashing windows and lifting TVs out of houses would that be ok? Woukd anyone who tried to stop me be or disagreed be a racist?

Is it impossible for anyone to say....

BLM and the way some cops are behaving is a disgrace and needs stamped out.
The rioters & looters are a disgrace and is a lot more than just smashing a few windows - these also need stamped out.

It seems no one is allowed to be against police brutality and against the riots.

"Interesting" framing

You say Black Lives Matter - all of it - is "a disgrace" and "needs stamped out"

But only some cops

The proverbial "few bad apples", I guess

A neat illustration of your pre-existing bias there

Bet you didn't say that about the RUC, mind

Indeed. And as I've stated before on this thread, judging the entire BLM movement by its most violent people, but not applying the same standard to the police, is the language of the oppressor.

[Eamonnca1]

The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.

I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

And by cherry picking my quote you have shown exactly what I mean.

I stated in the rest of my quote that the stance being taken by the BLM movement is correct. The police are wrong. I also stated that the looting is wrong. You can believe in the rights of the BLM movement and also believe that the looting is wrong.

Windows can be repaired. Flat panel TVs can be re-stocked and claimed against insurance.

Black people cannot be resurrected after they've been killed.

I think one of these things is a more pressing problem than the other, wouldn't you say?

[Eamonnca1]

Sid I agree with you. The looting though is wrong.  I am not equating the looting with the BLM movement by the way. Just simply stating that it is wrong

It is the entirely understandable reaction to 400 years of continuing oppression

A riot is the cry of the unheard

Until white America starts listening and starts acting, what on earth does it expect

The reality is that entirely peaceful protest gets you nowhere, and it will certainly get nowhere under this president who is openly on the side of white supremacist terrorism and the police murderers of unarmed black people

The Civil Rights movement in the US was never entirely peaceful - it desired confrontation, there were riots

John Hume too, like Martin Luther King, desired confrontation, he desired that the brutality of British forces be exposed for what it was

The issue is not looting, the issue is the continued killing with impunity of unarmed black people by police, the criminal justice system being a tool of mass oppression of black people, and the endemic white supremacist nature of US society

This is pretty black and white

Rioting yes. Looting no. Unfortunatley both are intertwined during occasions of civil unrest throughout the world not just the States.

Both are the products of fundamental injustice

Anybody who focusses on them as the problem is part of the problem

The problem is the injustice - not occasional riots or looting

Focussing only on riots and looting by one side is part of the continuing, centuries long strategy of categorising criminality as inherently black and blackness as inherently criminal

Trump openly does this and the whole of Republican media does it

Republican media is not remotely interested in justice, Republican media is white supremacist

When Republicans talk about "liberty" and "freedom", they mean the liberty and freedom of whites to oppress blacks, the whole ideology was built on justifying slavery

The so called "libertarianism" of the Republican party is carte blanche for the bully to bully, it's a transparent fraud

Correct but looting will always takeaway from the message of Genuine civil unrest and be used as a weapon by the opressor, so in my view shouldn't be encouraged.

Those damn fenians. Always demanding their civil rights and going on marches that sometimes erupt into violence. What's it going to be like if we give them the vote?

[sid waddell]

The world has become extreme black and extreme white and I am nit talking about skin colour. You either have an extreme black or an extreme white approach. The grey in the middle is where the real truth lies.

I see this sentiment used a lot, yet almost never is it backed up with actual honest analysis of the situation it claims to be describing

It's empty cliched rhetoric

It refuses to recognise the essential injustice of the situation

The cause of Black Lives Matter is righteous and just

Their demands are righteous and just

Those who oppose them - the police, white supremacist mobs who have no cause for existence other then chaos, violence and death, and Trump, who has no cause other than chaos, violence, death and benefitting from massive corruption - are attempting to deny justice

There is no way you can "both sides" this

One side wants justice, the other wants injustice

It really is that simple

And by cherry picking my quote you have shown exactly what I mean.

I stated in the rest of my quote that the stance being taken by the BLM movement is correct. The police are wrong. I also stated that the looting is wrong. You can believe in the rights of the BLM movement and also believe that the looting is wrong.

Windows can be repaired. Flat panel TVs can be re-stocked and claimed against insurance.

Black people cannot be resurrected after they've been killed.

I think one of these things is a more pressing problem than the other, wouldn't you say?

Unfortunately the reality of the situation is that a hell of a lot of white people care far more about televisions and windows and sneakers (as yis call them over there) than about black lives

The furious white reaction to the Black Lives Matter protests only goes to prove how righteous, just and necessary Black Lives Matter is

It's proving the point of the protests beyond any doubt whatsoever

[LeoMc]

I would not judge the very necessary BLM protests by the actions of a fee in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
I would not judge the Police by the actions of a few in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.

[sid waddell]

I would not judge the very necessary BLM protests by the actions of a fee in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.
I would not judge the Police by the actions of a few in their midst. I would not condone the actions of those extremists.

There is systematic white supremacist infiltration of police

Police unions are partisan in their support for Trump

The sheriff in Kenosha openly demonstrated his support for a white supremacist narrative about crime, and the rank and file officers openly demonstrated their support for white militias, who are white supremacist terrorists

The problem with police in the US is systematic and similar to but very likely worse than the problem with the RUC

The RUC had to be disbanded

The criminal justice system in the US is used as a tool of white supremacism

The support for white supremacism goes all the way to the top, the president is a white supremacist leading a white supremacist regime

This is not "a few bad apples", this is major problem with the system and it is deep rooted into the very fabric of the country

It's not a sustainable situation, yet forces against positive change are extremely influential

This means a major collision course

What exists in the US, like in all majority white societies, is a degree of white tolerance for people of colour

White tolerance means that whites are prepared to tolerate, and only tolerate, people of colour, as long as people of colour don't get too outspoken or "uppity"

It's the "know your place" mindset

And if so much as a window is broken in black protest, purveyors of white tolerance lose their shit altogether

White tolerance is white supremacism

Yet the current variant of white supremacism in the White House is not even white tolerance, it goes well beyond that, it's white terror

[sid waddell]

It was interesting to see the different reactions Trump had to two 17 year olds

One was Greta Thunberg, who is trying her best to save the world from climate catastrophe

The other was Kyle Rittenhouse, a white supremacist terrorist who murdered two people and shot another

Needless to say, Trump vilified the girl who was trying to shame governments into real action to stop the destruction of the planet, and defended the white supremacist terrorist

Trump has almost sexual fetish for death and destruction, it's very disturbing

[Eamonnca1]