The Many Faces of US Politics...

Started by Tyrones own, March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

J70

Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: TabClear on August 17, 2020, 05:55:35 PM
Trump may be  a dangerous idiot but that cr@p by Michael Moore is  more likely to energise his base than anything the red hatted moron could do himself. Gobsh1te

Trumpers have always been blaming the "liberals" for forcing them to vote for Trump. The "personal responsibility" crowd doesn't seem to want to take responsibility for voting for Trump. "The liburls made us do it!"

Who ever said that?

What SWING VOTERS (who are the ones who decide the election)  will tell you, is that relative to Trump, the Democratic option was an even WORSE option. So go ahead and mangle and twist that into something you feel fits your narrative. No one forced anyone to do anything, but one party (Democrats) had policies that did not align with the beliefs of the people who's votes they needed to win

LOL-do you think that government mandated low income Housing in suburban towns is a winning issue for Democrats?

That gets into the difference between the two parties, doesn't it?

One wants to govern and make society better for all citizens.

The other just wants it to be every man for himself, where only the dollars that can be made are important, and f**k the little people. Which leaves things a little troublesome when actual governing is needed, such as during global pandemics.

Social housing may not be a nice or popular issue. But you can't just wish those problems away.

Same with inconvenient things like environmental issues or infrastructure or human rights.

LOL-My point is, it's not going to happen, so why the fvck make it a campaign issue?

Sure it might energize SOME of the people who were going to vote for you anyway but it comes at the expense of alienating the very people whose votes you actually need to win

Ok, fair enough.

But wasn't it Trump who introduced that issue?

J70

Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: glens73 on August 17, 2020, 05:27:32 PM
Michael Moore, putting a lot of effort into get Trump out, his latest Facebook post;


MY PLAN FOR HOW TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE AN ELECTION, TRUMP IS REMOVED, AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE GONE FOR GOOD
by Michael Moore

TRUMP HAS DECLARED WAR ON US AND OUR DEMOCRACY.

IT'S TIME FOR US TO PUT OUR LIVES ON THE LINE, IF NECESSARY, AND TO MAKE HIM THE LAST REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT OF OUR UNITED STATES.

Trump, right now, tonight, is up to some very nasty, scary stuff — stuff we can't even imagine — and of course we can't imagine it because we don't think like Trump. Our brains are wired for love, empathy, solidarity, compassion, freedom, person, woman, man, camera, TV.

You know like I know that Trump has a devious, wicked plan to destroy this Election. We need to declare, immediately, that it is he and the Republican Party who have to go, for the sake of this country's existence, they must be crushed and removed.

Trump actually has an arsenal of plans already in action to ensure he never leaves office. He has them all in high gear — some visible, some not. If you could see them all you'd be so stunned, you'd have to immediately convince yourself that there's no way he can pull this off.

We are all caught in Trump's Matrix, a mad web, the work of a psychopath-in-chief with tricks so devious that fascists of old, if alive today, would marvel at what Trump has accomplished.

For the next 11 weeks — and then for the 12 weeks between the Election and the Inauguration — Trump is planning nothing but anarchy, chaos, a call to arms of his angry white male followers and the complete destruction of our democracy. You think I'm kidding? You think I'm overstating the case? Do you want to take the risk that I might not be wrong? Most of you understandably chose not to listen to me four years ago when I warned you Trump was going to win the Presidency by taking Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. May I please ask that you now give me your serious attention for what I am about to say — because if I'm right again this time, there won't be a next time. There will be nothing left for me to warn you about. There probably won't be much left of me.

Here's how Trump plans to end our right to choose the next President and Congress. It will happen fast. I am also laying out here a battle plan for us to defeat this takeover of our democracy. We must act now.

HERE ARE TRUMP'S 5 PLANS ALREADY IN MOTION:

PLAN #1: Create Chaos. Instill Fear. Fire Up the Base with Racist Vigor. Pandemonium Ensues.
CHECK. DONE.

PLAN #2: Suppress the Vote
•Dismantle the Post Office.
•Create 4-Hour-Long Lines by Drastically Reducing Number of Polling Locations.
•Throw Black and Brown Voters Off the Rolls.
•Stop Those Who've Served Time from Voting.
•Place 50,000 "Poll Watchers" at Voting Sites Around the Country to Intimidate Voters.
VOTER SUPPRESSION IN ACTION AS WE SPEAK.

PLAN #3: Postpone the Election. Place the blame on a "legitimate" national tragedy or emergency  — massive deaths from the pandemic, a terrorist attack, an assassination, a deadly hurricane, a civil war in the streets, one or both Presidential candidates falling ill to Covid-19 —  anything that reasonable people, even people who are opposed to Trump, will agree that "we just can't hold an election right now! We just need to postpone it for a couple days, a couple weeks (a couple months... a couple years...)" Or perhaps he'll just cancel the Election outright and see if he can get away with it.
TRUMP READY TO PULL THE TRIGGER.

PLAN #4: His September Surprise.
His October Surprise.
His November Surprise.
His January Surprise.
You think you can guess what it will be, but trust me, it'll be far worse. We need to be ready. Stay on high alert, my friends. Millions of us will need to act on a moment's notice. It's the grim reaper of Democracy at our doorstep. We made the mistake of letting Trump get this far — why wouldn't he now think he can get away with everything??
THE SURPRISE IS UNKNOWN. THAT'S WHY IT'S A SURPRISE.

PLAN #5: He Will Not Leave.
When Trump loses, he will declare the Election invalid, rigged, stolen — and he will refuse to step down.

So, what will we do then?

HERE IS OUR BATTLE PLAN TO REMOVE TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICANS:

1. Do Not Wait — Biden/Harris Should Start Running the Country Now.
We simply don't have time to wait until January 20, 2021. Nearly 200,000 of us have already died from Trump's reckless incompetence with the coronavirus. By Election Day it's possible another 100,000 to 200,000 of us will have needlessly died. A total of 400,000 dead? That's the equivalent of one hundred and thirty-three 9/11s! Or 532 planes being flown into 532 buildings. If something that horrific ever happened, and the President not only didn't do anything about it, but tried to pretend it wasn't all that bad - "it is what it is" - he would be run out of the White House by an angry mob of millions of Americans, lucky not to have his head put on a spike on the Key Bridge over the Potomac.

It doesn't have to come to that. Biden and Harris should present to America a simple nationwide plan to end the pandemic — and then act on it immediately.

They should call a meeting of all the Governors and ask them what help do they need — and then find a way to get them that help, going around Trump and just making it happen. They should ask industry, in lieu of campaign contributions, to produce hundreds of millions of instant-result tests. They should call their Heads of State friends overseas and ask them to send all the PPE they can spare. They should get 250 million Americans to take the "Face Mask Pledge." And they should promise the scientists in our top universities all the money and help they need once they're in office. Ignore Trump. Treat him as if he's irrelevant and get the job done.

2. The Republican Party Must Be Crushed and Destroyed. Trump Must Become the Last Republican President.

   In the Michigan county where I live, the August primary this month set a record turnout for a presidential-year primary. In fact, more people this year voted by mail-in ballot than ALL those who voted in 2016 — by mail-in AND in-person combined. This is a highly encouraging sign for what we now need to do:
   • We must create an historic massive turnout between now and November 3rd — a tsunami of voters the likes of which have never been seen, and may never be seen again. In 2016, 66 million Americans voted for Hillary Clinton. This time, though, we have to WALLOP Trump with an electoral concussion, a blow so profound he won't know what hit him. This must be a defeat so crushing, so humiliating, a whooping of such epic proportions that he will be forced to leave 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue with his tail between his legs on January 20th. This mammoth landslide must not only ensure that no president ever behaves this way again, we need to see to it that Trump is the last Republican president. The Election Day Uprising must put an end to this party of Trump enablers and traitors. They had a choice. They chose Trump over Democracy. They chose Putin and Netanyahu over fair elections and freedom for all. They chose the 1% over the 160 million working Americans. They chose the NRA over the massacred children of Sandy Hook. They chose to rig our elections, our textbooks, our economy. Democrats helped them along the way, and we'll take the stick to them and fix that. The Republicans, though, chose to let hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens perish from Covid-19 because loyalty to Party and to Trump was greater than their duty to the American people. For that alone, the Republican Party must be put out of business for good. Vote out every last one of them. Conservatives will have to form a new party, much like when the Whigs were sent packing in the 1800s. The Republicans must pay for their crimes.

   • We must flip the Senate —- and not just by the three seats we need for control. We should shock the pundit class and, as the Republican Party is reduced to ashes, grab a solid 55+ seat majority. Colorado, Arizona, Maine, North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, Montana and even Kansas, South Carolina and, yes, Texas (a state that is now 57% non-white) — are all possible Democratic Senate wins. Think about spending a weekend or a week helping out in one of these states. The Republicans will wish they had managed this pandemic better and had everyone busy back at work by now. All this "free time" should make for their undoing.

   • Finally, we have to vote the local Republicans out of office, too. State Houses and Senates will be drawing the electoral map for the next ten years. We can't let the cheating Republicans do this again. Do what you can to elect Dems in your state and local elections. The punishment of the Republican Party — a certified terrorist organization for having helped kill at least 200,000 Americans — is an imperative.


3. Who Would Be Willing To, If Need Be, Put Their Life on the Line To Ensure This Election Is Held and EVERYONE Gets to Vote? I Would. Would You?

   These steps must be taken immediately:
     • The Secret Service, the FBI, the Capitol Police and the Joint Chiefs of Staff must be called before Congress and swear under oath that they will guarantee that the election will be held, they will enforce the Constitution they swore to uphold, and if he's defeated but refuses to leave, they will escort the former President of the United States out of the White House.

     • Biden and Harris must put Trump on notice that if he does one more thing to interfere with the Election or issues one more threat to suppress the vote, they will turn him and his crime family over to the new Justice Department for prosecution.

     • Every single one of us must be strong in our publicly-stated resolve that there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON ON EARTH TO POSTPONE OR CANCEL THE ELECTION. That's our unmovable and intractable position. No national tragedy, disease, threat or the melting of all of Greenland will cause us not to vote on or before November 3rd. Even if, God forbid, either candidate passes in their sleep between now and Election Day, the Election will continue — and the winner's VP - or Nancy Pelosi - will become President on Inauguration Day.

     • Let's all pledge that, if Trump tries to cancel the election or if he refuses to accept its results, millions of us will go to DC and encircle the White House, a thousand deep, until he backs down, resigns or is removed.

   • And, if you can, quietly make this commitment to yourself: "There are only a very few things I'd be willing to give my life for. This is one of them." I know. That's dark. And heavy. And awfully sad because it shouldn't have come to this. But if we can't even say that, then what good are we? If we aren't willing to make that sacrifice, then America is already over and we might as well just fold our tent and see if Canada will take the non-racist, non-homophobic, non war-mongering ones of us who have manners and get satire.

4. Become an Election Defender.
   
   Each of you should form an urgent action group - a rapid response team - in your neighborhood or town and do the following:

     • Hold a daily protest at your local post office
     • Picket the home of your local Postmaster (he/she may be on your side, so bring them some baked goods)
     • Chain yourself to a local blue USPS dropbox if you can find one. Or chain it to something that won't move.
     • Sign up with the city clerk to be a poll worker on Election Day - especially if you're young. Because of the pandemic, polls will be very short of poll workers. If you're told they have enough help, then call the local Democratic Party and offer to be a "poll watcher", the group of people from each party who get to oversee the voting to make sure there are no irregularities.
     • Demand your city create more voting locations. Convince owners of arenas, theaters, ball parks, malls - places with large open spaces - to offer their facilities as polling places so that everyone gets a chance to vote.
     • Canvas your neighborhoods over the next month to get people to fill out the form you'll have them sign to get a mail-in ballot — and if they want to vote in person, let them know when the first day is so they can do that. Make a list of who needs a Covid-safe ride. The earlier the better!


5. The Uprising We're In Is Only Getting Bigger. The People Will Now Call the Shots.
   
   Why wait for the politicians to fix the mess of a country we're in when they helped orchestrate the mess in the first place? Why don't we just declare how we want to live — a new way to govern and function as a country — and we will finally fulfill the promise of the American Dream that has never been realized. Life, liberty, true equality, a sharing of the wealth, being good citizens of this world and kind stewards of a fragile Earth.

What have we learned from this pandemic? What we already knew: That employer-based health insurance can evaporate in an instant. Health care is a human right.

That being told "we can't afford that!" (free college, free child care, free medical care - the things most advanced nations have) is total BS — the government CAN afford anything we decide we need!

We've learned that teachers, nurses, the mailwoman, farm workers, mass transit drivers and the minimum wage workers stocking the grocery shelves at 3 in the morning are our most important citizens and they need the respect and income they deserve immediately.  74% of the country now believes a guaranteed annual income is a great idea — fifty percentage points higher than when Andrew Yang proposed it 7 months ago!

We've learned to slow down, consume less  — and that is what may be the path to saving the planet (when the 4% of its inhabitants [US] is no longer sucking up 25% of its resources and hoarding more than half its wealth).

We're about to go elect more women than ever before — a time to turn the reins over to the gender that stands a better chance of getting us through the deadly viruses of Covid, Capitalism and Republicans(R.I.P.).

None of this will be launched by politicians. It will only come about through you and me taking action as part of the largest protest movement in our history — still growing, still going strong! — to end the racism, the abuse of the police state, the disgusting income inequality and the hateful misogyny that is going to come to an end in our lifetime.

America, post-pandemic, must become a very different place. Let's make this happen. Doing the above will be the best cure for the trauma of these past four years.

Commit to being the change.
Organize your friends and family today.
Make your plan to campaign in a swing state Sept. or Oct.
VOTE AS EARLY AS YOU CAN—and take 5 people along with you!

We can do this. Trump - we're coming for you. I'll be in the first U-Haul truck that pulls up to your door.
the thing is the Democrats still haven't excepted the 2016 election results and they've been protesting sometimes violently since . The prime minister of nz said she is putting back the election a month because of a handful of covid cases with no blowback but when trump suggested something similar the narrative from the media is he's a dictator that won't leave  office , what evidence is there of that . The 2020 election and the aftermath if trump wins  is going  to be a dangerous time for this country because the Democrats are not going to except another loss and are willing to do anything to get power , if he wins all hell will break loose and they want the public to know this in advance , the message is you bite him in we will burn it all down .

Perhaps the small fact that the prime minister of NZ hasn't been exhibiting autocratic tendencies or hinting that she wouldn't accept a losing result or hyping up the "threat" of voter fraud and trying to sabotage the post office and so on and on is relevant?

whitey

He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

whitey

#17823
Here's one of the "good guys" Sid (or maybe it was Eamonn) was praising to the hilt a few weeks ago

https://t.co/JuBmSShAyC

J70

Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.

whitey

Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.

After what's gone on in the big cities these past couple of months, I think this is a big net positive for Trump.

People can be outraged all they want at how he messages it, but the reality is that very few towns embrace this type of federally mandated development and that includes wealthy Democratic towns

Eamonnca1


J70

Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 07:19:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.

After what's gone on in the big cities these past couple of months, I think this is a big net positive for Trump.

People can be outraged all they want at how he messages it, but the reality is that very few towns embrace this type of federally mandated development and that includes wealthy Democratic towns

Its the same old appeal to white resentment that Trump and the GOP specialize in.

Just because there might still a few electoral kicks left in it doesn't make it right.

Eamonnca1

#17828
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
the thing is the Democrats still haven't excepted (sic) the 2016 election results and they've been protesting sometimes violently since .

Take it up with the electoral college. When you undermine the legitimacy of the ballot box with a hare-brained affirmative action program for rednecks, people are going to have a hard time accepting the legitimacy of who seizes power after losing the vote by 3.5 million.

QuoteThe prime minister of nz said she is putting back the election a month because of a handful of covid cases with no blowback

The opposition in NZ wanted it delayed until even later, in November.

Quotebut when trump suggested something similar the narrative from the media is he's a dictator that won't leave  office , what evidence is there of that .

His own words when questioned about it by Fox News' Chris Wallace:

"I have to see. No, I'm not going to just say yes. I'm not going to say no, and I didn't last time either."

When did you last see a sitting US president even hint that they're not going to accept an election result?

QuoteThe 2020 election and the aftermath if trump wins  is going  to be a dangerous time for this country because the Democrats are not going to except (sic) another loss and are willing to do anything to get power , if he wins all hell will break loose and they want the public to know this in advance , the message is you bite him in we will burn it all down .

LOL! Trump is openly sabotaging the post office, openly saying it's to undermine postal voting, and you're bleating about the Democrats "doing anything to get in power?" Orwell has taught you well.

whitey

Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:38:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 07:19:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.

After what's gone on in the big cities these past couple of months, I think this is a big net positive for Trump.

People can be outraged all they want at how he messages it, but the reality is that very few towns embrace this type of federally mandated development and that includes wealthy Democratic towns

Its the same old appeal to white resentment that Trump and the GOP specialize in.

Just because there might still a few electoral kicks left in it doesn't make it right.

Resentment????

Don't think it has much to with resentment and more to do with Nimbyism and Liberals are as bad if not worse than Republicans in that score

Gmac

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
the thing is the Democrats still haven't excepted (sic) the 2016 election results and they've been protesting sometimes violently since .

Take it up with the electoral college. When you undermine the legitimacy of the ballot box with a hare-brained affirmative action program for rednecks, people are going to have a hard time accepting the legitimacy of who seizes power after losing the vote by 3.5 million.

QuoteThe prime minister of nz said she is putting back the election a month because of a handful of covid cases with no blowback

The opposition in NZ wanted it delayed until even later, in November.

Quotebut when trump suggested something similar the narrative from the media is he's a dictator that won't leave  office , what evidence is there of that .

His own words when questioned about it by Fox News' Chris Wallace:

"I have to see. No, I'm not going to just say yes. I'm not going to say no, and I didn't last time either."

When did you last see a sitting US president even hint that they're not going to accept an election result?

QuoteThe 2020 election and the aftermath if trump wins  is going  to be a dangerous time for this country because the Democrats are not going to except (sic) another loss and are willing to do anything to get power , if he wins all hell will break loose and they want the public to know this in advance , the message is you bite him in we will burn it all down .

LOL! Trump is openly sabotaging the post office, openly saying it's to undermine postal voting, and you're bleating about the Democrats "doing anything to get in power?" Orwell has taught you well.
trump and his minions kidnapping mailboxes eh , I have 5 out the back of my house .

Eamonnca1

Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 08:43:14 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 17, 2020, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
the thing is the Democrats still haven't excepted (sic) the 2016 election results and they've been protesting sometimes violently since .

Take it up with the electoral college. When you undermine the legitimacy of the ballot box with a hare-brained affirmative action program for rednecks, people are going to have a hard time accepting the legitimacy of who seizes power after losing the vote by 3.5 million.

QuoteThe prime minister of nz said she is putting back the election a month because of a handful of covid cases with no blowback

The opposition in NZ wanted it delayed until even later, in November.

Quotebut when trump suggested something similar the narrative from the media is he's a dictator that won't leave  office , what evidence is there of that .

His own words when questioned about it by Fox News' Chris Wallace:

"I have to see. No, I'm not going to just say yes. I'm not going to say no, and I didn't last time either."

When did you last see a sitting US president even hint that they're not going to accept an election result?

QuoteThe 2020 election and the aftermath if trump wins  is going  to be a dangerous time for this country because the Democrats are not going to except (sic) another loss and are willing to do anything to get power , if he wins all hell will break loose and they want the public to know this in advance , the message is you bite him in we will burn it all down .

LOL! Trump is openly sabotaging the post office, openly saying it's to undermine postal voting, and you're bleating about the Democrats "doing anything to get in power?" Orwell has taught you well.
trump and his minions kidnapping mailboxes eh , I have 5 out the back of my house .

Well if everything's okay in your backyard then that must mean there's nothing fishy going on with the postal service anywhere.

No wonder conservatives haven't a clue about what's going on outside of their own little worlds. The concept of there being something different going on somewhere else is just too much for their conservative brains to handle.

Eamonnca1

QuoteBefore the election, Donald Trump squeezes the postal service
Deprived of funds, it will struggle to handle mail-in voting

DONALD TRUMP has long held the United States Postal Service (USPS) in contempt. In April he called it "a joke," and contended it was losing money delivering packages for Amazon. That is untrue, but it provided a plausible explanation for his loathing. He wanted the USPS to quadruple its package-handling rates because he thought it would harm Amazon, whose owner, Jeff Bezos, also owns the Washington Post, which covers the president accurately and unflatteringly.

In May Mr Trump installed a new postmaster-general, Louis DeJoy. Unlike many of his predecessors, Mr DeJoy has never worked for the USPS: he ran a logistics company in which he still holds shares, which some argue creates a conflict of interest. He has been a generous donor to Republicans and Mr Trump. He implemented operational changes that led to mail slowdowns. When some on the left began musing that these changes were intended to hinder voting by mail, they were dismissed as conspiracy theorists. On August 13th, however, Mr Trump all but admitted their suspicions. He opposes funding the USPS, he said, because "if they don't get [the money], that means you can't have universal mail-in voting because they're not equipped to have it."


The USPS is rapidly losing money: $4.5bn from January to March, more than double its losses for the same period last year. Its financial woes have three main causes—one acute and two chronic. The acute problem is covid-19. At least 2,400 postal workers have caught the virus; at least 60 have died; more than 17,000 of its 630,000 employees have been quarantined; and it has had to buy personal protective equipment (PPE) for its workers. Though package volume and revenue have grown during the pandemic, along with Americans' online shopping, marketing and first-class mail have both declined (one-time census mailing staved off a revenue decline in first-class mail, but volume fell).

The decline in first-class mail—the USPS's most profitable offering—is also a chronic problem: in the digital age, people are sending fewer letters, birthday cards and postcards. Compounding that problem is the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA), a law passed with bipartisan support in 2006 that requires USPS to prepay a large share of future retirees' health benefits—a burden imposed on no other federal agency. Some on the left want Congress to repeal PAEA. That looks unlikely, both because Republicans would not support it, and because it would leave the USPS with sizeable unfunded obligations.

On current trends, in the absence of relief or reform, the USPS estimates that it could run out of money sometime between April and October 2021. House Democrats included money for the USPS in their version of the CARES Act, a covid-relief bill enacted in March, but after Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, said Mr Trump would veto any legislation that included USPS funding, it was cut out of the final bill. The only relief the USPS has so far received is a $10bn line of credit from the Treasury.

Ostensibly to save money, Mr DeJoy implemented operational changes last month. Instead of setting as a paramount goal delivering to customers all mail received by a post office on a given morning, the new rules forbid carriers from leaving late or making extra trips back to the station, as often happens if more mail arrives than a single truck can hold. Lori Cash, a postal worker in Orchard Park, New York, explains that carriers at her post office have to leave at 9am, and any mail not on their trucks by then does not get delivered that day. As a result, she says some customers have seen their mail delayed by two days. For a magazine or advertisement, that delay may be trivial; for prescriptions, however, or payments to a small business, it could prove far more serious. It could also be the difference between a mailed ballot being counted or discarded.

More worryingly, reports have come from across America of sorting machines being removed from mail-processing plants and mailboxes being unbolted and removed. The slowdown in sorting capacity because of machine removal appears particularly acute in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and Texas—all battleground states. The USPS sent letters in July warning 46 states that it cannot guarantee that all ballots mailed on time will be delivered in time to be counted. Barack Obama said that Mr Trump is trying to "actively kneecap the postal service" and that Republicans are "so scared of people voting that [they] are now willing to undermine what is part of the basic infrastructure of American life."

Setting aside the moral questions concerning a strategy to starve the USPS in order to hinder Americans' ability to vote during a pandemic, politically it carries real risks. A Pew Research Centre survey taken earlier this year showed that 91% of Democrats and Republicans viewed the USPS favourably. The service is particularly important in rural America: unlike private carriers, it is legally required to deliver mail to all addresses, and many people in sparsely populated areas have no other way to vote or get their prescriptions. Even ordinarily unwavering Trump supporters such as Steve Daines, a Republican from Montana, have begun worrying in public.

The House Oversight Committee, which has jurisdiction over the USPS, summoned Mr DeJoy to testify at an emergency hearing on August 24th. Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, said she will call the House back from recess this week to vote on legislation that would bar USPS from implementing any operational or service changes until at least January 1st 2021. Jim Cooper, among the most mild-mannered, centrist Democrats in the House, tweeted that his chamber must "subpoena the Postmaster General, and if he fails to appear, we should send the Sgt at Arms to arrest him." The administration appears to be softening its stand. Mark Meadows, Mr Trump's chief of staff, announced a halt to sorting-machine removals, while the USPS said it would halt mailbox removals until after the election. On August 16th, Mr Meadows also expressed openness to funding the USPS.

Mr DeJoy, whose office declined The Economist's interview request and who Congressional Democrats say has not been available to them, released a statement averring that the USPS must "redouble our efforts to focus on our plans to improve operational efficiency and to further control overtime expenditures." Labour accounts for most of USPS's costs; finding efficiencies and reining in overtime may well save the service money.

Even so, many question why Mr DeJoy opted to implement those changes just months before a presidential election that will be unusually reliant on mailed ballots. Mr Trump has repeatedly warned that voting by mail risks widespread fraud, which—given the infinitesimally low rates of fraudulent mailed ballots—seems less a genuine concern than an effort to sow doubt about an election that he may lose. Gerry Connolly, a Democrat from northern Virginia who chairs the subcommittee that oversees USPS, calls Mr DeJoy's rationale "a smokescreen...Under the guise of 'We can't afford it and we're making efficiencies', it's directly affecting the delivery of mail on the eve of an election."

Editor's note: This is an updated version of an article that first appeared on August 8th in the United States section of the print edition under the headline "Law of the letter"

But what would The Economist know? All we need to do is count the number of mailboxes outside Gmac's house.

J70

Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 08:25:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:38:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 07:19:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 17, 2020, 06:57:26 PM
He was responding to a policy position taken by Biden.....

Directly from Biden's website


"Eliminate local and state housing regulations that perpetuate discrimination. Exclusionary zoning has for decades been strategically used to keep people of color and low-income families out of certain communities. As President, Biden will enact legislation requiring any state receiving federal dollars through the Community Development Block Grants or Surface Transportation Block Grants to develop a strategy for inclusionary zoning, as proposed in the HOME Act of 2019 by Majority Whip Clyburn and Senator Cory Booker. Biden will also invest $300 million in Local Housing Policy Grants to give states and localities the technical assistance and planning support they need to eliminate exclusionary zoning policies and other local regulations that contribute to sprawl."

Agree or disagree with it, but it's not going to get the Democrats one single solitary vote

Maybe not, but Trump using it as a racial wedge issue isn't going to win him many votes either.

After what's gone on in the big cities these past couple of months, I think this is a big net positive for Trump.

People can be outraged all they want at how he messages it, but the reality is that very few towns embrace this type of federally mandated development and that includes wealthy Democratic towns

Its the same old appeal to white resentment that Trump and the GOP specialize in.

Just because there might still a few electoral kicks left in it doesn't make it right.

Resentment????

Don't think it has much to with resentment and more to do with Nimbyism and Liberals are as bad if not worse than Republicans in that score

"Watch out suburban housewives - social housing i.e. black and brown people and crime, are coming your way under Biden".

It's straight out of the white resentment playbook.

That it might also rile up a few liberal NIMBYs to vote for him doesn't change that.

Eamonnca1

The state of modern political discourse in the US:

Democrats: We think Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Trump: I'm destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Conservatives: The libs have gone crazy and believe that Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election

Gmac: I can see 4 mailboxes from my house, therefore there's no evidence that Trump is destroying the Post Office to steal the election