The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Eamonnca1]

Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!

lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

I believe they died fighting for the freedom to choose - as opposed to the other side who would have sent the gestapo after you if you didn't sieg heil with sufficient enthusiasm to the swastika.

my point is eamon probably wouldn't make the same disparaging comment about the tricolor or Irish National anthem but will about the country that he emigrated too that gave him more opportunities and a better standard of living than he could have had in  Ireland. I find that attitude all too common these days and strange.

What you call "making disparaging comments about" is what I call "doing what's necessary to make a better society," or striving "to form a more perfect union" as the founding documents put it.  The idea that patriotism requires one to be uncritical and unquestioning of your society is one that I find utterly bizarre and has become all too common today in conservative thought. America is all about civic engagement. It's all about participating in democracy as best you can to make the changes you feel are necessary, not waiting for some benevolent ruler to do it for you. The fact that I have a great lifestyle and standard of living doesn't mean I'm required to keep my mouth shut and unquestioningly follow all the rituals of the civic religion. In fact my standard of living is irrelevant.

And since I was technically born in the UK, and since I have no hesitation in criticizing what the union flag stands for, my position has been entirely consistent.

[Gmac]

Meanwhile in San Francisco we have a city council member who wants to make it a crime if you call 911 on a black person and no crime had taken place , so in his opinion if you feel threatened or are worried about a potential situation you should wait until the person of color commits the crime before you call 911, turkeys voting for Christmas

So, in your opinion, all these people calling the police for no reason because they're personally nervous about black people is ok?

There should be no penalty for someone like the Central Park woman who called the cops on the black guy because he had the nerve to ask her to leash her dog in an area where it was supposed to be leashed?

As I have said on here a million times, most of the limousine liberals I know who lecture us about systemic racism and inequality would $hit themselves if a black person came within half a mile of them.

Wasn't this lady from Central Park a big Hillary supporter? Funny how all her social media postings have been wiped from the internet

MOST?

Even if so, so what?

Makes them hypocrites, not wrong.

So they can lecture all of us and donate heavily to politicians who support laws that impact other people, but not them. And you're okay with that?   Good for you

Why would such laws not impact them?

The Central Park woman was charged. Luckily for her, the man in question, felt that she had suffered enough and is not cooperating with the DA, so she may get off.

And why would you feel like you're being lectured to? Do you not agree with and support politicians who decry racism?

her being charged is probably more to do with pandering, a lunatic mayor and I'm sure a liberal da who's under pressure to release violent rioters and looters with no charge and yet charge a woman with a crime for calling the police because someone was hassling her . Now if that doesn't show the lunacy nothing does .

You'll have to provide a source for violent rioters and looters being released without charge.

And you must be a very sensitive, paranoid type if you think a man asking you to obey park rules for your dog in a birdwatching area is hassle worth calling the cops for.

nypd have pulled their officers out of da offices in lots of boroughs because they won't charge rioters , keep you head in the sand .

Maybe YOU should pay less attention to the right wing fever swamps.

The decision was not to prosecute curfew violations and minor stuff. NOT violent rioting and looting.

release the looters charge the person calling police because she's being hassled, that's all there is to know about society when these lunatics take over .

Once again, please provide evidence that looters aren't going to be charged.

And I'd rather live in a place where its not ok to call the cops on a black person for no reason, thank you. Question is why you apparently wouldn't?

now your mayor is banning all large gatherings except blm protests , what a fuckiing joke

[whitey]

Why is it a double-standard?

Do Eamon or any of the rest of us have cause to burn the tricolour or kneel during the anthem?

Has anyone condemned such acts while defending the rights of people to do so with the US flag or anthem?

Personally, I'd give up or even burn the Irish flag in a heartbeat if it was warranted. They're just symbols. Obvious issue to come to mind would be reunification.

So would it be okay to sit down during the National Anthem if you were enjoying a pint at the Felons Club in Belfast? 

Or to fly an Israeli flag in the middle of a crowd of Tyrone supporters? 

It's only a song and a piece of cloth after all


(I actually have an immediate family member who was physically threatened for having the cheek to ask a bartender to switch a TV over to a Liverpool game in an "IRA" pub. I guess they had Celtic showing on about 10 TVs and no one really paying attention so he didn't see what the big deal was. Threatening a 70 year old man for supporting the wrong team in Merseyside)

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Members of the Central Park 5 helped with the painting of Black Lives Matter outside Trump Tower.

https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1281324167728635915

[gallsman]

Yup. If you don't stand to attention during the magic song, then the magic piece of cloth fluttering in the breeze won't freedom!

lots of people died in 2 world wars for that flag ,lots of people in the north of Ireland died for their own flag and anthem too.

Lots of people were forced to fight for that flag in Vietnam. 58,000 of them didn't come home.

Mr. Bonespurs was not one of them.

so did Bill Clinton and Lyndon Johnson was the president who sent troops there first , WHATS your point

I don't think either of those were jingoists who based their campaigns on rabble rousing about "respecting" the flag and the anthem.

I'll tell you what J70, this whole anthem nonsense really aggravates the $hit out of me. Players should do whatever the hell they want. Personally, I think they should Just stay in the locker room if they find the National Anthem objectionable, but that's just me

The NFL with their faux patriotism, all the while taking payments from the military. At the same time injured veterans are denied basic healthcare after having fought in a war that was based on a lie

https://archive.thinkprogress.org/nfl-dod-national-anthem-6f682cebc7cd/

I have an immediate family member (wife's nephew) who served in Afghanistan and ran a high profile advocacy program for injured vets when he finished in the military. His opinion is that he fought for the rights of people to stand or sit or kneel for the National Anthem and that a politician who actively dodged military service should stfu

This is part of the myth that the US white/right wing spinon this. Which players have said they find the anthem "objectionable"?

How many times do people have to be told that they're not protesting against the anthem or the flag?!

[whitey]

So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

[Gabriel_Hurl]

It's like talking to a 2 year old

[gallsman]

So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.

[Gmac]

So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence
Some players and former players more interested in quoting hitler and Farrakhan.

[whitey]

So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.

Unfortunately for the Black community, the police are the least of their problems right now

[gallsman]

So explain to us then what the whole brouhaha is about

For a start, I guess they'd like to not get murdered by cops.

7 kids were killed in Chicago in the last 2 weeks why don't they speak out against this as well or protest in the neighborhoods where it's happening or kneel for kids who are killed from gang violence
Some players and former players more interested in quoting hitler and Farrakhan.

Whataboutery.

[J70]

Why is it a double-standard?

Do Eamon or any of the rest of us have cause to burn the tricolour or kneel during the anthem?

Has anyone condemned such acts while defending the rights of people to do so with the US flag or anthem?

Personally, I'd give up or even burn the Irish flag in a heartbeat if it was warranted. They're just symbols. Obvious issue to come to mind would be reunification.

So would it be okay to sit down during the National Anthem if you were enjoying a pint at the Felons Club in Belfast? 

Or to fly an Israeli flag in the middle of a crowd of Tyrone supporters? 

It's only a song and a piece of cloth after all


(I actually have an immediate family member who was physically threatened for having the cheek to ask a bartender to switch a TV over to a Liverpool game in an "IRA" pub. I guess they had Celtic showing on about 10 TVs and no one really paying attention so he didn't see what the big deal was. Threatening a 70 year old man for supporting the wrong team in Merseyside)

You seem to be conflating being allowed to do it by the authorities with getting abuse from those standing around.

I've never said NFL supporters shouldn't be allowed to heckle Colin Kapernick when he kneels. Free speech goes both ways.

Violence is a separate issue.

[whitey]

Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

[J70]

Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

The NFL banned the players from kneeling on the field. That counts as an authority in their case, would you not agree? Goodell recently reversed it.

Kaepernick de facto had his career ended because of his actions.

Trump would make "disrespect" of the flag/anthem a crime if he had half a chance. Fortunately for everyone, he doesn't.

[whitey]

Serious question-When have the "authorities" ever stopped anyone from kneeling?

The NFL banned the players from kneeling on the field. That counts as an authority in their case, would you not agree? Goodell recently reversed it.

Kaepernick de facto had his career ended because of his actions.

Trump would make "disrespect" of the flag/anthem a crime if he had half a chance. Fortunately for everyone, he doesn't.

Ok..I understood "authorities" as meaning the government.

The NFL owners did also gave them the option of staying in the locker room if they didn't want to stand for the anthem.

At the end of the day these athletes are employees of a franchise and their salaries are paid for by the fans through season ticket sales, jersies etc.  If they don't their teams "anthem policy" they can look for another job, just like any one else who is unsatisfied with their work conditions

(And I respect their right to kneel.....but if you take the big check you should know it doesn't come without strings attached)