The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Captain Obvious]

[Far East]

Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong?

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.

Are these native Americans you referred to yesterday? I thought liberals would have been more likely to sympathise with their plight. 3rd post by the way. What are you going to do when you run out of fingers and toes

[screenexile]

[Kickham csc]

The Dem superdelegate system is a stitch up..Clinton would not have won without it. Bernie v Trump would have been fair. But it was Clintons turn. A bit like FF and Cowen.

Clinton got 3.7 million more votes than Sanders in the primaries, 16.9m to 13.2m.

I'd have voted Bernie had I had a vote, but it's wrong to say Clinton would not have won without superdelegates. By any stretch of the imagination, pledged delegates, all delegates, popular vote, she was the legitimate nominee.

But the delegate system (particularly the Democratic superdelegates) and the electoral college are both awful systems.

It's incredible in this day and age that the US election is not organised on a standardised basis nationwide in terms of things like voter eligibility, polling hours and method of voting.

The US system claims to be one (wo)man, one vote.

But each vote cast across the nation clearly does not count equally. In what is effectively a straight two-way race for President, it's utterly baffling that the person getting the most votes losing the election is not a major issue, and that's twice in five elections it's happened now.

So much for "the Democrats having the advantage in the electoral college".

The position of President is national one, the method of electing the President is decided to a disproportionate level by the partisan acts of states and state politicians. That is an utter disgrace.

"States' rights" is a euphemism, a loaded term which was used to justify segregationist laws in southern states. Today it's used to justify thinly veiled racist practices like voter suppression.

Democrats due have the advantage in the electrical college and Hillary's campaign screwed up. She lost states that were historically Democrat, due to the campaign ignoring the white non college educated working class, who indecently voted for Obama, and have been loyal to the democrats for the past 30 odd years.

Bill identified this during the primary and it cost Hillary.

And the sad think is that there are common grievances between the white working classes and African Americans, immigrants etc, education, employment and healthcare. She failed to deliver a clear coherent message / solution on these issues and it cost her.

All the protesters should stop wasting their time protesting about Trump, and instead focus on influencing senators to ensure they fight any of Trump's controversial proposals and pushing him to consider democrat polices (which they easily could do since he is not a committed republican) Additionally, the protesters should focus on 4 years time, and influence the DNC on policy and candidate selection

[screenexile]

I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?

[seafoid]

I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?

I don't think Trump will fix anything . The core problem is the 1%. He works for them. Maybe he will cancel Obamacare. But the problem is much deeper. It is rent seeking at every level.

[seafoid]

This is a must-read

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/

[Kickham csc]

I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?

The American system actually works in this scenario. So OK, the Republicans are in control at the moment, but historically, they have two years now to make real progress on their program. Otherwise the normal trend of the house or senate flipping over to democrat control to check the power of the President will happen .

[seafoid]

If fairness to the US, at least most of them get a vote for President.

The EU doesn't offer us that.

Right. But our German overlords are not interested in a war . They learnt their lesson in 1945.
Americans did not. 

Here is some music Trump could use. It would really work with the deplorables in Wisconsin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc-DgRO1SrQ

[Hardy]

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

Only some of America. The part that's endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan and the like -
Clinton 60,274,974
Trump 59,937,338

[seafoid]

The Dem superdelegate system is a stitch up..Clinton would not have won without it. Bernie v Trump would have been fair. But it was Clintons turn. A bit like FF and Cowen.

Clinton got 3.7 million more votes than Sanders in the primaries, 16.9m to 13.2m.

I'd have voted Bernie had I had a vote, but it's wrong to say Clinton would not have won without superdelegates. By any stretch of the imagination, pledged delegates, all delegates, popular vote, she was the legitimate nominee.

But the delegate system (particularly the Democratic superdelegates) and the electoral college are both awful systems.

It's incredible in this day and age that the US election is not organised on a standardised basis nationwide in terms of things like voter eligibility, polling hours and method of voting.

The US system claims to be one (wo)man, one vote.

But each vote cast across the nation clearly does not count equally. In what is effectively a straight two-way race for President, it's utterly baffling that the person getting the most votes losing the election is not a major issue, and that's twice in five elections it's happened now.

So much for "the Democrats having the advantage in the electoral college".

The position of President is national one, the method of electing the President is decided to a disproportionate level by the partisan acts of states and state politicians. That is an utter disgrace.

"States' rights" is a euphemism, a loaded term which was used to justify segregationist laws in southern states. Today it's used to justify thinly veiled racist practices like voter suppression.

It's more complex than the final vote, Sid.
the wiklileaks showed what happened at the DNC level.,
Wasserman Schultz had to resign
Clinton was a poor candidate and she was railroaded through by the executive with the support of a compliant media.
Because it was so obvious. She would walk it.

"We're up for Sam. It's only a matter of just toggin out. There's Sean Brady goin in. What do you think, Debbie ?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yppU34GzDp8&index=5&list=PL83k39XYgY9kymEFyWVAN_34tFt8I8B6Y

And the "donors" like Mark Cuban didn't want Bernie. Because they didn't like what he was saying. He sounded like a t**ker.
Very bad call. The voters didn't want a shifty nerd.

I bought the NYT yesterday for a laugh.

Page 1 "Rivals failed the gauge his appeal to workers"
"We are close to a political tipping point " By Thomas L Friedman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwFaSpca_3Q
Page 16 "the world's most trusted perspective"

Maybe they were advised by Kieran Shannon.

This election is a disaster for US newspapers, pollsters , the Dem system etc.
The Feng Shui is all over the shop.

[seafoid]

This  is worth a re read

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432876/donald-trump-white-working-class-dysfunction-real-opportunity-needed-not-trump

[J70]

Obama put his legacy on the line here, he stated it was and yet the people rejected it, why?

Liberals, do you have the intestinal fortitude to ask were it all went wrong?

By the way, eat as much pizza as you want, cuddle puppies as much as you want but the fact remains America is sick of your shit!!!

True story.

It went wrong because a flawed, status quo candidate was beaten, in the electoral college, by a demagogue playing to the basest instincts and manipulating the fears of a lot of scared, frustrated and misguided people.

It's happened many times before in history. Why would the US be immune?

Trump lost the popular vote. More people wanted Hillary. He would be well advised to heed that. He won't, though.

[J70]

I don't think it will take 4 years... the Democrats have 2 years to get the houses back and never has it been more important for them to do so. If they can do that and get a credible likable candidate for 2020 (Would Mrs. O do it?) then they can turn it around! How much damage can be done in the time being though?

The American system actually works in this scenario. So OK, the Republicans are in control at the moment, but historically, they have two years now to make real progress on their program. Otherwise the normal trend of the house or senate flipping over to democrat control to check the power of the President will happen .

Problem is that after a strong 2012, a lot of Democratic senate seats in competitive or red states will be for reelection. That said, Trump's excesses could be just the spur to allow them to hold them.

The House is so gerrymandered that it would take a Dem wave election to flip it.

And then there's the issue that young people don't vote in mid-terms. Old people make up a far higher proportion than in presidential elections. And they tend to be right wing, at least the white ones.

But again, if Trump goes off the deep end, the backlash might precipitate Democratic turnout.

[AZOffaly]

Does the popular vote really prove that though? Or does it just prove that Trump picked his battles and didn't bother too much with the populous states like California and New York because he knew he wouldn't win there, so he concentrated his energies on winning the popular vote in the states where the electoral college votes were in play.

If I know California's millions are going to go to Hillary anyway, why do I waste more energy than I need there?

Now if every vote counted 1 for 1, maybe Trump would have campaigned more in California, and Clinton would have in Texas, and there'd be a different popular vote result. But you can't really say it proves one thing or the other..