The Many Faces of US Politics...

[whitey]

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Is that death rate or murder rate, what are we talking about here?

Have you any stats to back that up? Do you also see yourself as just a Bostian...not American, and White.... not American. Are we talking about the nation of white people that live in MA or are we talking about America?

I agree with you that the chart is misleading, it is quite evident from that chart that a countries wealth is not relating to gun crime. However if you look at my chart on wealth disparity then you will see a relationship emerging which America fits into nicely.

Although in fairness if we are having an open mind on the subject it would also squash the idea that availability of guns is related to murders.

So if you wanna solve gun crime start spreading the wealth!

Are you packing BTW ?

All the stats are in the article I linked in.

On average 4 white people per 1,000,000 population (all races) will die from a gunshot in MA in any given year. My guess is that's a much, much lower than the murder rate in Ireland.



The chart Muppet put up makes it seem like we are all running around ducking and diving avoiding flying bullets, whereas the reality couldn't be further from the truth. The vast majority of gun deaths occur in almost exclusively minority neighborhoods-the types of places you or I would never, ever, ever even set foot it.

I live in a town has 7-8,000 people and there hasn't been a murder here during the past 10 years.  I just checked the publicly available data and approx 350 residents of the town have a permit to own a gun?  My guess is that the average permit owner would own about 5 guns, so that would put 1,500 legally owned firearms my town. (The guy who cut my hair on Friday evening told me he has 20 guns himself)

The nearest town to where I grew up in Ireland is Castlebar and there were 6 murders there over the past 10 years (that I can remember). 4 people stabbed to death, one shot dead in a traveller feud, and one person kicked to death during a family dispute.

I'm not for a moment saying that there isn't a problem with guns in this country, but the ONLY solution can't be MORE gun laws

And no I don't own a gun and I don't intend ever owning one, but I do respect the rights of sane, law abiding citizens to exercise their second amendment rights

[J70]

Similarly Whitey, the only solution can't be that anyone and everyone packs heat, as the pro-gun crowd would tell you. They won't even countenance the mildest of measures such as to check backgrounds at gun shows and so on. The fact is that the NRA owns enough politicians and the gun nuts are so, so much more motivated on this topic that nothing is ever going to change. They faced down the groundswell of public opinion in favour of pretty basic, gentle measures after Sandy Hook FFS. If something as beyond the pale and unspeakable as that outrage won't budge them, then nothing will. The gun nuts have won. Its sad how American society has evolved in that respect. Basically, there are so many guns out there now, that many people feel they must also own them in order to protect themselves from the psychopaths who have instant and easy access to them.

[omaghjoe]

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Is that death rate or murder rate, what are we talking about here?

Have you any stats to back that up? Do you also see yourself as just a Bostian...not American, and White.... not American. Are we talking about the nation of white people that live in MA or are we talking about America?

I agree with you that the chart is misleading, it is quite evident from that chart that a countries wealth is not relating to gun crime. However if you look at my chart on wealth disparity then you will see a relationship emerging which America fits into nicely.

Although in fairness if we are having an open mind on the subject it would also squash the idea that availability of guns is related to murders.

So if you wanna solve gun crime start spreading the wealth!

Are you packing BTW ?

All the stats are in the article I linked in.

On average 4 white people per 1,000,000 population (all races) will die from a gunshot in MA in any given year. My guess is that's a much, much lower than the murder rate in Ireland.



The chart Muppet put up makes it seem like we are all running around ducking and diving avoiding flying bullets, whereas the reality couldn't be further from the truth. The vast majority of gun deaths occur in almost exclusively minority neighborhoods-the types of places you or I would never, ever, ever even set foot it.

I live in a town has 7-8,000 people and there hasn't been a murder here during the past 10 years.  I just checked the publicly available data and approx 350 residents of the town have a permit to own a gun?  My guess is that the average permit owner would own about 5 guns, so that would put 1,500 legally owned firearms my town. (The guy who cut my hair on Friday evening told me he has 20 guns himself)

The nearest town to where I grew up in Ireland is Castlebar and there were 6 murders there over the past 10 years (that I can remember). 4 people stabbed to death, one shot dead in a traveller feud, and one person kicked to death during a family dispute.

I'm not for a moment saying that there isn't a problem with guns in this country, but the ONLY solution can't be MORE gun laws

And no I don't own a gun and I don't intend ever owning one, but I do respect the rights of sane, law abiding citizens to exercise their second amendment rights

Any stats on the Irish side of the equation tho to back it up?

Also interesting you would bring the travellers into it as some people in Ireland wouldn't really count on them as being part of Irish society, same as you don't count "minorities" being part of your society

BTW where I live the safest neighborhoods are white ones, which is a minority around these parts! A reality coming to the rest of America soon, where every "ethnicity" will be a minority, so according to your theory gun crime is gonna get worse as everyone becomes a minority.

However to me your attitude is exactly the reason why there is high level of gun crime in America and that is that everyone looks out for himself to an extreme level, they don't care about their neighbours, communities or the community next door. Something you illustrated very well by having to look up the homicide history in your town whereas you knew of the top of your head about Mayo, you even knew the details. I include myself in that BTW there have been a couple of murders where I live quite close by actually earlier this year, and I only found out about them recently, however if there was a murder in Tyrone Id know immediately.

This is also something that the anti-gun lobby are being a little tunnel visioned about that guns are the root of the problem, as I believe the root of the problem is the individualistic nature of American society.

[whitey]

Omaghjoe...Irish stats are on the graph Muppet put up.

Even not counting the traveller murder.....there were still 5 murders in Castlebar which is astounding. 4/5 murders were mental health/drug related while number 5 was drink related.

It's not that I don't care what happens in the minority neighborhoods, I just have so much on my own plate between work and family obligations, that I need to watch my own corner first.....I pay more than my share in tax to support all these social programs, so as far as I'm concerned, my obligation ends there (quite a selfish attitude  I would admit)

You misread my statement on the number of murders...re read what I said.  I knew there were no murders....I needed to look up how many gun permits there were in town.

The biggest issue, imho, is that there has been a complete breakdown in the structure of the African American community. Kids having kids, children being raised without father figures or strong female role models, drugs, poverty, crap schools, crime, lack of infrastructure.  Solve those issues and you'll see a big drop in gun crime

[muppet]

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Oh I couldn't agree more. It is the complete indifference to the deaths of blacks from people like yourself that bothers me. 30,000 deaths a year is carnage, but as long as 'Whitey' is ok, then it is fine.

[whitey]

Interesting chart.......but completely meaningless when given without context

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/


So taking a step back for a moment....I am a white person and I live in MA.....the death rate for my demographic is 4 per million.....which is probably lower than the rate in Ireland.

Oh I couldn't agree more. It is the complete indifference to the deaths of blacks from people like yourself that bothers me. 30,000 deaths a year is carnage, but as long as 'Whitey' is ok, then it is fine.

So how much intervening have you done with the criminal gangs in Southill, O Malley Park, Jobstown, or on the halting sites of Finglas....shag all I'm sure-LOL. But thanks for the lecture.....I sure it makes you feel better about yourself

[muppet]

Whitey, the US is estimated to own 35% - 50% of the world privately owned guns.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people

Amazingly, it has the highest gun homicides in the developed world, by a mile. It doesn't matter if people in your 'town' haven't seen a murder in a few years. And comparing the US with Castlebar in terms of murder rate is beyond idiotic, at least have the guts to post the name of your 'town' in the States and I bet I will find a murder in the last 10 years.

I have to say, I admire the way you try to paint Castlebar as a homicide haven while suggesting that the States is statistically misunderstood.

[muppet]

So how much intervening have you done with the criminal gangs in Southill, O Malley Park, Jobstown, or on the halting sites of Finglas....shag all I'm sure-LOL. But thanks for the lecture.....I sure it makes you feel better about yourself

But Whitey, I am not the one pretending there is nothing wrong with all this shooting. As long as black people die, everything is fine, isn't that right?

[whitey]

So how much intervening have you done with the criminal gangs in Southill, O Malley Park, Jobstown, or on the halting sites of Finglas....shag all I'm sure-LOL. But thanks for the lecture.....I sure it makes you feel better about yourself

But Whitey, I am not the one pretending there is nothing wrong with all this shooting. As long as black people die, everything is fine, isn't that right?

Well, were actually on the same page....but the issue is not JUST guns.....the underlying root causes are socio economic.....solve those problems and we're more than halfway home to solving the gun issue. If people have jobs and mortgages and families and aspirations, they won't have time for all this other nonsense

[whitey]

Whitey, the US is estimated to own 35% - 50% of the world privately owned guns.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people

Amazingly, it has the highest gun homicides in the developed world, by a mile. It doesn't matter if people in your 'town' haven't seen a murder in a few years. And comparing the US with Castlebar in terms of murder rate is beyond idiotic, at least have the guts to post the name of your 'town' in the States and I bet I will find a murder in the last 10 years.

I have to say, I admire the way you try to paint Castlebar as a homicide haven while suggesting that the States is statistically misunderstood.

LOL....so following your logic, if they introduced "knife control" in Castlebar those 4 murders not have occurred

You haven't a clue what your talking about....check this link...it gives the crime stats for almost every town in MA going back 10 years.......there's DOZENS of towns that haven't had a murder of any description in the past decade let alone a gun murder

http://www.city-data.com/city/Massachusetts.html

[muppet]

Whitey, the US is estimated to own 35% - 50% of the world privately owned guns.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people

Amazingly, it has the highest gun homicides in the developed world, by a mile. It doesn't matter if people in your 'town' haven't seen a murder in a few years. And comparing the US with Castlebar in terms of murder rate is beyond idiotic, at least have the guts to post the name of your 'town' in the States and I bet I will find a murder in the last 10 years.

I have to say, I admire the way you try to paint Castlebar as a homicide haven while suggesting that the States is statistically misunderstood.

LOL....so following your logic, if they introduced "knife control" in Castlebar those 4 murders not have occurred

You haven't a clue what your talking about....check this link...it gives the crime stats for almost every town in MA going back 10 years.......there's DOZENS of towns that haven't had a murder of any description in the past decade let alone a gun murder

http://www.city-data.com/city/Massachusetts.html

Nope that wasn't my logic. You introduced the ridiculous comparison with Castlebar, not me. You must be very proud of your home place to suggest that the murders there compare with the 30,000 a year in the US.

I checked the link, now please show me what you think it shows, because I see nothing to support your argument. Where as these 'dozens' of towns that haven't had a murder of any description on that graph?

[muppet]

Someone asked me to do a like to like comparison between where I live in US and Ireland....you may not have read that part of the thread......that's why I interjected Castlebar into the discussion

Unfortunately the link is not that user friendly and requires a lot of heavy lifting...let me see if I can get you a better link.....but I absolutely stand by my statement and if I have time I will dig it our for you.  (My town and 3 towns directly abutting me did not have one murder in the past 10 years)

Oh I see.

'Someone asked you'.

And you picked Castlebar. A tiny sample of murders in Ireland to compare with your tiny sample of murders in the US.

And you provided no links. Just your memory.

And then you claimed your link to Massachusetts data showed something. But it didn't.

Jeeeessss, it is hard being an NRA nut.


Why don't you just argue that the octogenarians should have been packing heat like the other nut jobs?

[muppet]

Someone asked me to do a like to like comparison between where I live in US and Ireland....you may not have read that part of the thread......that's why I interjected Castlebar into the discussion

Unfortunately the link is not that user friendly and requires a lot of heavy lifting...let me see if I can get you a better link.....but I absolutely stand by my statement and if I have time I will dig it our for you.  (My town and 3 towns directly abutting me did not have one murder in the past 10 years)

Oh I see.

'Someone asked you'.

And you picked Castlebar. A tiny sample of murders in Ireland to compare with your tiny sample of murders in the US.

And you provided no links. Just your memory.

And then you claimed your link to Massachusetts data showed something. But it didn't.

Jeeeessss, it is hard being an NRA nut.


Why don't you just argue that the octogenarians should have been packing heat like the other nut jobs?

LOL-here's the direct question from J70   

"What would the rate in Ireland be compared to the rate with your demographic in the MA or the US overall?"

And actually the link provides info (and further links) to the crime stats for almost every town in MA, just you have to go in town by town.

So if you think I'm bullshitting put your money where your mouth is-lets make a little bet.

If I can find 24 towns/cities in MA  (I said dozens) that have not had a recorded murder over the past 10 years you make a $250 contribution to the Berkley students. If I cant come up with 24  towns and cities-Ill make the donation

Time to put up or shut up

See the bit in bold? MA or the US?

MA's population is greater than the island of Ireland.

And you pick Castlebar and want to compare with some tiny town that you won't mention?    Thereby denying anyone the ability to compare anything.

Then you want a bet. But you want to bet on the gun death rate in the state with the strictest gun laws in the US. You are a complete joke.

How about I get to compare homicides with, say, Inisturk?

Or how about we pick a state more in line with your right wing views? Like Louisiana? Over 18 deaths per 100,000 people, per annum!

You are an embarrassment to Ireland. 

[stew]

From what I've heard, Fox News are spinning this massacre as an "attack on faith" and down playing the racist aspect of it.

Shocked, I tell ya!

That is bullshit! They down played nothing and by the way, the f**ker did kill these people in a Baptist Church after all, there is a smidgeon of an attack on faith is there not? or are you just so liberal you are simply a clone that loves to attack Fox news?

[omaghjoe]

HS lads yous need chill out.....or not its class craic readin this.