The Many Faces of US Politics...

[foxcommander]

[Carmen Stateside]

Have to agree fully with FL/Mayo.  Some of the areas that they have to Police would not be for the faint hearted.  Thankfully i have not had any personal experience with the NYPD myself but its hard to not notice their actions towards Blacks and Spanish in the city are a lot different to whites.

[muppet]

I deal with cops here all the time, they do put up with a lot of B.S and I would hate to do their job but most of the time their behavior and aggressiveness while on calls leads to most the problems they encounter.  Honestly if I was an African American and was pulled over by the cops I would be very nervous about where I put my hands. Having said they have a very difficult job dealing with some of the biggest lowlifes you could ever meet.

Why is that? In the world's richest country?

As an aside, I am frequently in New York and have never had anything but a positive experience with them.

It might be the worlds richest country, but the living standards in some areas are terrible. If you live in these poorer areas its all about survival, some children rare themselves because their parents couldn't  give a toss about them. So you can imagine how some of these kids turn out, the value of a human life to a kid that has grown up in this environment is probably a lot less than yours or mine. This is the type of person I am referring to when I say cops have a difficult job as this is their clientele 80% of the time.
I am glad your interactions with NYPD have been positive, what part of New York were you visiting?

I am usually in Manhattan. Brooklyn traffic seems to be without rules so I can imagine what being on the street is like there.

But back to the above. I agree with everything you say.

But I was really asking why is it like that?

People instinctively look after their kids everywhere in the world. Why (and this happens in Ireland too but nowhere near the same scale) do these people abandon their kids? You used the word 'lowlife'. The Irish were considered the lowest form of life in Europe over 100 years ago and that stuck with them initially when they emigrated to the States. That changed. Why is the situation for such a huge number of African-Americans not changing?

[Eamonnca1]

The photoshopping of the last two lines couldn't be more obvious.

[Eamonnca1]

The protests will change nothing.  It will go the same way as the occupy movement i suspect, just fading away into the background after a few weeks.  Some new big news story will come along and they will be forgot about. 
Be interesting to see how today goes. There is another mass protest organized for today in NY and with it being a Saturday i would think organizers will be expecting a large turnout.

I disagree that the occupy movement changed nothing. Prior to that, you weren't allowed to talk about income inequality in America because conservatives would shout you down with the old talking point: "You can't say that! That's class warfare!" Nowadays income inequality is very much on the political agenda and anyone running for office is free to talk about it in a way that they weren't before.

I think the standard right wing talking points about racial profiling and police brutality are quickly losing their traction too. In fact right wingers should be horrified by what's going on since they are the ones who for years have been ranting like paranoid maniacs about a looming "police state." Now that it's arrived they're strangely silent about it, but only because it's people of colour that are on the receiving end. Once a few more white people start to get roughed up on camera and the offending cops get away with it, then you'll start to see a bit of outrage from the Fox News-watching Wal Mart crowd.

[stew]

The protests will change nothing.  It will go the same way as the occupy movement i suspect, just fading away into the background after a few weeks.  Some new big news story will come along and they will be forgot about. 
Be interesting to see how today goes. There is another mass protest organized for today in NY and with it being a Saturday i would think organizers will be expecting a large turnout.

I disagree that the occupy movement changed nothing. Prior to that, you weren't allowed to talk about income inequality in America because conservatives would shout you down with the old talking point: "You can't say that! That's class warfare!" Nowadays income inequality is very much on the political agenda and anyone running for office is free to talk about it in a way that they weren't before.

I think the standard right wing talking points about racial profiling and police brutality are quickly losing their traction too. In fact right wingers should be horrified by what's going on since they are the ones who for years have been ranting like paranoid maniacs about a looming "police state." Now that it's arrived they're strangely silent about it, but only because it's people of colour that are on the receiving end. Once a few more white people start to get roughed up on camera and the offending cops get away with it, then you'll start to see a bit of outrage from the Fox News-watching Wal Mart crowd.

Conservatives are appalled at what is going on, a lot of them are but hey, you just sweep with broad strokes and tar every conservative thinking person as racist and uncaring about their fellow countrymen.

The fox news comments are played out, liberals watch msnbc and to be fair the vast majority of the big players in the States that broadcast are liberals.

I watch Fox, I watch msnbc and CNN, you tend to get to figure out the bullshit when you take in various perspectives, do you ever watch Fox?

Ben Stein commented on the hypocrisy pertaining to Obamacare recently, you might want to take a gander on his thoughts! and don't get me started on the clown in chief and Pelosi, forgetting they knew the arsehole they employed, who stated that they knew Obamacare would be made into law "because of the stupidity of the American people"

This is the single worst administration since Nixon, the prez is a disgrace to the office as was the guy he replaced.

The liberals have run the place for six years and they have effed it up, time for change!

[FL/MAYO]

I deal with cops here all the time, they do put up with a lot of B.S and I would hate to do their job but most of the time their behavior and aggressiveness while on calls leads to most the problems they encounter.  Honestly if I was an African American and was pulled over by the cops I would be very nervous about where I put my hands. Having said they have a very difficult job dealing with some of the biggest lowlifes you could ever meet.

Why is that? In the world's richest country?

As an aside, I am frequently in New York and have never had anything but a positive experience with them.

It might be the worlds richest country, but the living standards in some areas are terrible. If you live in these poorer areas its all about survival, some children rare themselves because their parents couldn't  give a toss about them. So you can imagine how some of these kids turn out, the value of a human life to a kid that has grown up in this environment is probably a lot less than yours or mine. This is the type of person I am referring to when I say cops have a difficult job as this is their clientele 80% of the time.
I am glad your interactions with NYPD have been positive, what part of New York were you visiting?

I am usually in Manhattan. Brooklyn traffic seems to be without rules so I can imagine what being on the street is like there.

But back to the above. I agree with everything you say.

But I was really asking why is it like that?

People instinctively look after their kids everywhere in the world. Why (and this happens in Ireland too but nowhere near the same scale) do these people abandon their kids? You used the word 'lowlife'. The Irish were considered the lowest form of life in Europe over 100 years ago and that stuck with them initially when they emigrated to the States. That changed. Why is the situation for such a huge number of African-Americans not changing?

Muppet, great question, I ask myself the same thing all the time, I think its a generational problem, its tough to get out when your number one concern when you go to school or get out of bed in the morning is survival. The parents of some of these kids cannot look after themselves never mind raise a child, bad parents make bad kids, it goes from one generation to the next. I do see other immigrant groups starting to prosper, the Hispanic population seems to prospering and the mostly black Haitian population will be next in my opinion, both groups have a strong family network. Maybe that's the key!

[J70]

The protests will change nothing.  It will go the same way as the occupy movement i suspect, just fading away into the background after a few weeks.  Some new big news story will come along and they will be forgot about. 
Be interesting to see how today goes. There is another mass protest organized for today in NY and with it being a Saturday i would think organizers will be expecting a large turnout.

I disagree that the occupy movement changed nothing. Prior to that, you weren't allowed to talk about income inequality in America because conservatives would shout you down with the old talking point: "You can't say that! That's class warfare!" Nowadays income inequality is very much on the political agenda and anyone running for office is free to talk about it in a way that they weren't before.

I think the standard right wing talking points about racial profiling and police brutality are quickly losing their traction too. In fact right wingers should be horrified by what's going on since they are the ones who for years have been ranting like paranoid maniacs about a looming "police state." Now that it's arrived they're strangely silent about it, but only because it's people of colour that are on the receiving end. Once a few more white people start to get roughed up on camera and the offending cops get away with it, then you'll start to see a bit of outrage from the Fox News-watching Wal Mart crowd.

Conservatives are appalled at what is going on, a lot of them are but hey, you just sweep with broad strokes and tar every conservative thinking person as racist and uncaring about their fellow countrymen.

The fox news comments are played out, liberals watch msnbc and to be fair the vast majority of the big players in the States that broadcast are liberals.

I watch Fox, I watch msnbc and CNN, you tend to get to figure out the bullshit when you take in various perspectives, do you ever watch Fox?

Ben Stein commented on the hypocrisy pertaining to Obamacare recently, you might want to take a gander on his thoughts! and don't get me started on the clown in chief and Pelosi, forgetting they knew the arsehole they employed, who stated that they knew Obamacare would be made into law "because of the stupidity of the American people"

This is the single worst administration since Nixon, the prez is a disgrace to the office as was the guy he replaced.

The liberals have run the place for six years and they have effed it up, time for change!

You mean the GOP have NOT had the House and have NOT been behaving like spoilt children since 2010?

Just what have conservatives offered that warrants a return to their ideas?

The MIT dude who talked about the stupidity of the American people... do you seriously think the GOP doesn't think the exact same,  with their cynical wedge issues to get votes while they toe the line of their corporate masters???

As for Ben Stein,  haven't heard from him since his ludicrous movie about "intelligent design" a few years back. What has he got to say?

[foxcommander]

The photoshopping of the last two lines couldn't be more obvious.

Possibly is a fake. There are no spelling mistakes.
But the sentiment still carries. Why shouldn't any kid be allowed to hold up a store, jaywalk, assault a police officer and resist arrest without fear?

[macdanger2]

The photoshopping of the last two lines couldn't be more obvious.

Possibly is a fake. There are no spelling mistakes.
But the sentiment still carries. Why shouldn't any kid be allowed to hold up a store, jaywalk, assault a police officer and resist arrest without fear?

Which of those are offences worthy of being shot without trial?

[gallsman]

Absolutely fascinating documentary on New stalk this morning, "A Bronx Tale," about the, largely illegal, Irish community in the Bronx neighbourhood of Woodlawn.

So many different perspectives of Ireland, of traveling home, of options for the future etc. Powerful stuff.

[Carmen Stateside]

Thanks for the heads up, going to give it a listen now. I see you can listen again on podcast section of website. 

[J70]

The photoshopping of the last two lines couldn't be more obvious.

Possibly is a fake. There are no spelling mistakes.
But the sentiment still carries. Why shouldn't any kid be allowed to hold up a store, jaywalk, assault a police officer and resist arrest without fear?

Of course its a fake.

And there is a big difference between fear of arrest and have a much higher chance of being stopped/harrassed or killed by police just because you're black.

[FL/MAYO]

Absolutely fascinating documentary on New stalk this morning, "A Bronx Tale," about the, largely illegal, Irish community in the Bronx neighbourhood of Woodlawn.

So many different perspectives of Ireland, of traveling home, of options for the future etc. Powerful stuff.

I just listened to the documentary, it could have been made back in 1984, the only difference is that coming and going back then wasn't an issue. Woodlawn and Queens were the haunts back then as well. The bar game is great when you are young but unless you have a good head on your shoulders it will catch up to you sooner or later, that accent and your looks will not be so "cute" when you get older. In the 80's they had 3 or 4 lotteries and amnesties all skewed in favor of the Irish. I know people that applied for Green Cards at home and never even bothered to use them after getting theirs. In one amnesty you had to prove that you were living illegally in the U.S for 5 years or more, a few friends of mine got a letter from a bar owner in Queens to say that they were patrons of the bar for 5 years, it worked. 

[gallsman]

Absolutely fascinating documentary on New stalk this morning, "A Bronx Tale," about the, largely illegal, Irish community in the Bronx neighbourhood of Woodlawn.

So many different perspectives of Ireland, of traveling home, of options for the future etc. Powerful stuff.

I just listened to the documentary, it could have been made back in 1984, the only difference is that coming and going back then wasn't an issue. Woodlawn and Queens were the haunts back then as well. The bar game is great when you are young but unless you have a good head on your shoulders it will catch up to you sooner or later, that accent and your looks will not be so "cute" when you get older. In the 80's they had 3 or 4 lotteries and amnesties all skewed in favor of the Irish. I know people that applied for Green Cards at home and never even bothered to use them after getting theirs. In one amnesty you had to prove that you were living illegally in the U.S for 5 years or more, a few friends of mine got a letter from a bar owner in Queens to say that they were patrons of the bar for 5 years, it worked.

Yes, it was very noticeable that the interviewees all appeared to be young. I'd say oldest was probably in mid to late 20s. Cash in hand and pints and football and hurling is all well and good then but it has to be asked what happens when it's time to start settling down.

I was shocked to hear how casually they talk about paying for a sham marriage to get a green card and the disregard for any sort of civic obligations - e.g. giving fake names and addresses at hospitals etc.

One thing I found particularly interesting was the universal fear they had of having the slightest, most innocuous interaction with the cops even though one clearly felt cops weren't too worried about immigration unless there was a serious offence.