The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Puckoon]

Hold on a cotton picking minute Stew! I am a liberal cohort, and AFAIK - The iceman would be pretty far removed from the liberal stereotype..

[The Iceman]

That's not what I am saying Puck at all. I just have sympathy for genuine lads and ladies caught or stuck in no mans land. I was fortunate to be able to come here legally, I didn't have a situation like yours but it was a difficult process all the same to get the 10 year green card. There is a long tradition of Irish men and women coming to this country and it was a lot easier to come and legally obtain status 15-20 years ago than it is today. I am not saying it is right or wrong but I can have sympathy for the folks in no mans land. I called Stew out for having none at all.
I'm sure Stew is happy to eat his big steak at the weekend cooked by an Illegal worker and served by an illegal worker, have his table cleaned up after by an illegal worker.... Get the garden done by illegal workers...the list goes on. Or are you All American all the way?
Stew you just seem very bitter about it all. Angry at America, angry about the politics, angry about a lot of things in general really.

[The Iceman]

and for the record I am very open to any race creed or colour living and working in Armagh or anywhere else in Ireland. I have travelled the world and people are people wherever you go - good and bad. In fact as a result of my own situation my Dad would go out of his way in his job and outside of work to help some local immigrants who have moved in to our townland.

[stew]

Like many things, I'm not well versed in the small print.

Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay?

I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

I have no real opinions on the immigration issue, even after the huge role it has played in my life. If you come illegal, and you get fucked - there's to be no crying about it. That is the chance you take. If you come illegal and live happily ever after, fair play. I came legal and was faced with the very real possibility of having to leave my child and return home, even after 7 years of legality and playing by the book. Thankfully it did not come to that.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.

Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Well said Puck!

I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!

[dec]

Like many things, I'm not well versed in the small print.

Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay?

I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

I have no real opinions on the immigration issue, even after the huge role it has played in my life. If you come illegal, and you get fucked - there's to be no crying about it. That is the chance you take. If you come illegal and live happily ever after, fair play. I came legal and was faced with the very real possibility of having to leave my child and return home, even after 7 years of legality and playing by the book. Thankfully it did not come to that.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.

Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Well said Puck!

I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!

It's a venial sin rather than a mortal sin.

[stew]

That's not what I am saying Puck at all. I just have sympathy for genuine lads and ladies caught or stuck in no mans land. I was fortunate to be able to come here legally, I didn't have a situation like yours but it was a difficult process all the same to get the 10 year green card. There is a long tradition of Irish men and women coming to this country and it was a lot easier to come and legally obtain status 15-20 years ago than it is today. I am not saying it is right or wrong but I can have sympathy for the folks in no mans land. I called Stew out for having none at all.
I'm sure Stew is happy to eat his big steak at the weekend cooked by an Illegal worker and served by an illegal worker, have his table cleaned up after by an illegal worker.... Get the garden done by illegal workers...the list goes on. Or are you All American all the way?
Stew you just seem very bitter about it all. Angry at America, angry about the politics, angry about a lot of things in general really.

I cook my own steaks, the garden is tended by me and the wife and I would never, ever hire an illegal worker for anything, I clean my own table and I am far from bitter.

"No mans land" they f**king did that to themselves you eejit. I have no sympathy for them, they chose to do the wrong thing and they have to be responsible for their actions do they not?

I have disgust at what the liberals have done to this country, I have disgust at what Bush did to this country and I hope to God this country finally gets a leader of the ability of Clinton to bring fiscal responsibility to the USA again.

Iceman? "I am not saying it is right or wrong" really, is that the best you can do? it is wrong to enter anywhere illegally is it not?

I am not bitter at all, I have strong opinions on illegal immigrants the globe over, the illegal Nigerians, eastern Europeans, Chinese etc in Ireland should be fecked out on their holes, as should the illegal Irish, Mexicans and all other illegal immigrant in the states, it's simple really, if you have no right to be in a place you should be fcuked back to wherever you came from.

Iceman, you are the hypocrite here, not me, I don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me, I dont socialize with illegals, I pay my taxes and I hope they get deported, why should I help them on their way to giving nothing and taking everything, answer me that.

Obama has been a disaster like W before him, the republicans have chosen another idiot to run against Obamanation and this country...................no matter what happens is clean fcuked for another four years.

[stew]

Like many things, I'm not well versed in the small print.

Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay?

I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

I have no real opinions on the immigration issue, even after the huge role it has played in my life. If you come illegal, and you get fucked - there's to be no crying about it. That is the chance you take. If you come illegal and live happily ever after, fair play. I came legal and was faced with the very real possibility of having to leave my child and return home, even after 7 years of legality and playing by the book. Thankfully it did not come to that.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.

Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Well said Puck!

I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!

It's a venial sin rather than a mortal sin.

So you are saying it is slighty wrong then?

[dec]

I don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me

Perhaps not directly, but if you have eaten at many restaurants or eaten food that was harvested or processed in the United States then you have benefited from illegal immigrants.

[stew]

I don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me

Perhaps not directly, but if you have eaten at many restaurants or eaten food that was harvested or processed in the United States then you have benefited from illegal immigrants.

That is one hell of a stretch, I can hardly be expected to know who harvested the food in front of me now can I?

There are millions on top of millions of them here and I would say far from benefiting from them they cost me money because they get to work and get to pay fcuk all in taxes and that is wrong?

Answer this decco, is it right or wrong that illegal immigrants get to work and pay no taxes? please do not avoid the question this time, a simple yea or nea will do!

[dec]

I don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me

Perhaps not directly, but if you have eaten at many restaurants or eaten food that was harvested or processed in the United States then you have benefited from illegal immigrants.

That is one hell of a stretch, I can hardly be expected to know who harvested the food in front of me now can I?

There are millions on top of millions of them here and I would say far from benefiting from them they cost me money because they get to work and get to pay fcuk all in taxes and that is wrong?

Answer this decco, is it right or wrong that illegal immigrants get to work and pay no taxes? please do not avoid the question this time, a simple yea or nea will do!

I agree that it is wrong for employers to avoid paying taxes they owe by employing illegal immigrants.

[heganboy]

Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay

yes- about 6 million workers pay taxes despite not being legal residents- thats about 65-75% according to the Congressional Budget Office, and yes they benefit from it.
Yes- Indirectly. They have access to cell phones, roads , schools, police patrol their neghborhoods, and the US Army protects their homes from invasion. However they are not eligible for direct financial assistance or social security. Also the illegal immigrants working here keep prices low on food and building. Economists agree that it has a net positive effect on the US economy, though there is debate on the amount.

I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.

100% correct Puck, it is bloody hard and expensive to remain int he US legally without having wife or family (not kids) that are US citizens. To your point though, I can't imagine a high percentage of folks that would like to stay legally can afford ito do so

Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Difficult and impossible are different things. Although it was difficult for you Puck, it was possible, a smart immigration program in the US would make it possible for those that want it badly enough to get here and stay here legally, without the over the shoulder issue. I am not qualified to speak to individual cases, but I will happily call the existing policy bullshit.

In addition to that outrageous fear mongering of immigrants and immigrations in of all places the US (where 98.8% of the poplulation are immigrants or their descendants) is a disgrace to the entire nation.

I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!

Stew, dont know who you mean by "these boys" and there is a long list of things that are illegal and very defensible...
My position is very clear- that the immigration policy in the US is a complete crock, and that it is killing the US economy.

Yes it is right to be in a country illegally- how do you like them apples...

[stew]

Do illegal workers pay taxes? Do they benefit from the taxes I pay

yes- about 6 million workers pay taxes despite not being legal residents- thats about 65-75% according to the Congressional Budget Office, and yes they benefit from it.
Yes- Indirectly. They have access to cell phones, roads , schools, police patrol their neghborhoods, and the US Army protects their homes from invasion. However they are not eligible for direct financial assistance or social security. Also the illegal immigrants working here keep prices low on food and building. Economists agree that it has a net positive effect on the US economy, though there is debate on the amount.

I came here 10 years ago. Been legal since day one, and when I say that has been a challenge - I am not lying. I spent small fortunes on work permits, visa extensions, international student tuition etc... Thankfully I have my green card now. The reason I chose to stay legally was because I have a child here, and the thought of getting caught and slapped with a 3 year, or 10 year expulsion was something I was not prepared to risk.

Personal choice for me, but I wouldn't be comfortable looking over my shoulder waiting to get busted, so I wouldn't live anywhere illegally.

100% correct Puck, it is bloody hard and expensive to remain int he US legally without having wife or family (not kids) that are US citizens. To your point though, I can't imagine a high percentage of folks that would like to stay legally can afford ito do so

Iceman - it's very difficult to earn 6 figures in 2012. That doesn't mean I get to go rob a bank. Just because it is difficult to get legal entry, doesn't make illegal entry right, does it?

Difficult and impossible are different things. Although it was difficult for you Puck, it was possible, a smart immigration program in the US would make it possible for those that want it badly enough to get here and stay here legally, without the over the shoulder issue. I am not qualified to speak to individual cases, but I will happily call the existing policy bullshit.

In addition to that outrageous fear mongering of immigrants and immigrations in of all places the US (where 98.8% of the poplulation are immigrants or their descendants) is a disgrace to the entire nation.

I doubt you will get an answer the your last question Puck, a legitimate one at least because you cannot defend the indefensible!

These boys can justify anything and end up blaming someone else for their stance, no matter how untenable their position is.

Is it right to be in a country illegally or is it wrong boys? two choices, no semantics? I doubt you will have the balls to respond with a yes or no!

Stew, dont know who you mean by "these boys" and there is a long list of things that are illegal and very defensible...
My position is very clear- that the immigration policy in the US is a complete crock, and that it is killing the US economy.

Yes it is right to be in a country illegally- how do you like them apples...

Zinger, wow............................ I am impressed, you act like I am to be shocked at your response, not at all son, I am surprised it took you this long to let your opinion known, but at least you manned up unlike deco an co and gave me your warped, hypocritical opinion.

It is wrong to be be in any country illegally, how can you possibly justify your inane answer?

[stew]

I don't employ illegal workers, they certainly dont clean after me

Perhaps not directly, but if you have eaten at many restaurants or eaten food that was harvested or processed in the United States then you have benefited from illegal immigrants.

That is one hell of a stretch, I can hardly be expected to know who harvested the food in front of me now can I?

There are millions on top of millions of them here and I would say far from benefiting from them they cost me money because they get to work and get to pay fcuk all in taxes and that is wrong?

Answer this decco, is it right or wrong that illegal immigrants get to work and pay no taxes? please do not avoid the question this time, a simple yea or nea will do!

I agree that it is wrong for employers to avoid paying taxes they owe by employing illegal immigrants.

Weally decco? Wot about the workers whemselves decco, should they pay taxes you wuss?

Decco thinks the economy should tax the big bad business owners, not the illegal workers, sign me up baby, I will work shovelling shite in deccos world as long as I am free from paying my fair share, typical mickey mouse attitude lad, decco, you are officially the poster child for the illegal immigration hypocrisy movement, keep em coming son.

[stew]

And to follow up on the Esquire article, on Wednesday night Paul Ryan talked about how they are going to repeal Obamacare, because it is government healthcare, but want to save and protect and improve Medicare, which is of course government healthcare.

they are going to repeal it because it would cripple the economy and Obama himself couldn't even explain it, none of them could, it is a complete farce.

Here is a great general rule of thumb for you screaming liberals on here, if that cnut Nancy Pelosi is involved in any bill ever in the history of the rest of her life, throw it in a furnace and forget about it, she is a horror story and is a big part of the reason this President is as bad as he actually is, she is a nightmare.

[stew]

Reading back through this thread makes for sad reading, I am done with this thread, I am the bad guy for believeing people should follow the law, the liberals, for the most part disagree, fair enough but there is no point to this thread anymore.

Decco, keep em coming son, you da man!