The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Tyrones own]

what part about my posting a portion of what taxes the average American faces on a day to day basis in response to your "we're not taxed enough"
don't you understand 

Im asking what you think the taxes should be?

I'm well aware of what you're asking me but can we settle this first for the third time
"TO,
you are not making any sense at all."

I can wait.....

[J70]

For those wondering who this Joe Scarborough (MSNBC) that TO is crowing about is, he is a former hard right Republican congressman and Clinton hater. Has moderated his vitriol since landing his tv/radio gig, but liberal equivalent of Limbaugh or Hannity he ain't, MSNBC or not.

[Tyrones own]

For those wondering who this Joe Scarborough (MSNBC) that TO is crowing about is, he is a former hard right Republican congressman and Clinton hater. Has moderated his vitriol since landing his tv/radio gig, but liberal equivalent of Limbaugh or Hannity he ain't, MSNBC or not.

Ah typical...the auld damage control out in force trying to down play it!
fair and balanced MSNBC most Definitely is not and Mr Scarborough is very well suited to it!
Nice try though

[Tyrones own]

Two weeks ago it was all bush's fault then last weekend it was the
Tea party's fault....now today, the much idolized Michael Moore wants
The CEO of the S&P arrested! 
Honest to fcuk...you could'nt script this any better on the run in to the election
as to the depths they'll sink to protect O'blamer.

*edit, jaysus they've already now moved on to blaming the media
Reduced to turning on their own now to find any out at all for Obummer!
Stay tuned now...its liable to change again before the day is out 

*edit, Oops , shite... I forgot to mention that O'Blamer has also blamed Europe and the Japanese earthquake

[J70]

For those wondering who this Joe Scarborough (MSNBC) that TO is crowing about is, he is a former hard right Republican congressman and Clinton hater. Has moderated his vitriol since landing his tv/radio gig, but liberal equivalent of Limbaugh or Hannity he ain't, MSNBC or not.

Ah typical...the auld damage control out in force trying to down play it!
fair and balanced MSNBC most Definitely is not and Mr Scarborough is very well suited to it!
Nice try though

I see, so Scarborough's a liberal now, is he??!

Well those who are interested can do their own research.

Regardless, I've made no comment on his statement anyway. Just pointing out to those who don't get MSNBC what Scarborough in fact is, and that he is NOT a liberal commentator, as your "MSNBC no less" comment implied.

As for MSNBC itself, there's a reason I don't watch a station that is trying to be the liberal equivalent of Fox, but I will at least give them credit for having a conservative commentator as their primary morning host. Unless things have changed recently, there is no equivalent on "we report, you decide" Fox.

[Tyrones own]

I see, so Scarborough's a liberal now, is he??!

No he's a RINO and one that fits in just great with the other balanced commentators that thon
bottom of the pile, losing network has on offer.
Obummer had them in his pocket sending thrills up their legs for 3 yrs but it would seem the shine
is going off of him...not even they can bluff it anymore   

Anyway, what's your take personally on this inept fraud making history in being the first President in
history to preside over the losing of our AAA credit rating? Tut .Tut 

[heganboy]

what part about my posting a portion of what taxes the average American faces on a day to day basis in response to your "we're not taxed enough"
don't you understand 

Im asking what you think the taxes should be?

I'm well aware of what you're asking me but can we settle this first for the third time
"TO,
you are not making any sense at all."

I can wait.....

still not sure why you're being evasive. but ok I'll play your little game.
"you're not making sense" in this case refers specifically to the post I referred you to above, and in particular:

Oh I think we all know where you and your ilk stand with taxes;

and

where you always this brain washed for the cause HB or did living in NY simply bury you in sand?

neither of these phrases make any sense to me, and neither does the copy and paste of the tax poem.

now can you answer the questions?

[Tyrones own]

Quote

    Oh I think we all know where you and your ilk stand with taxes;

What is so hard to understand...you've stated quite clearly that we simply don't pay enough tax
and I've stated clearly that we do...it's runaway spending that is the problem here, but hey don't take my word for it,
read the full 5 page S&P report of the downgrade and their reasoning 

where you always this brain washed for the cause HB or did living in NY simply bury you in sand?

Only someone living in the bastion of liberalism could have his head so buried in sand..and it's not lost on me that
the most vocal here of all things Obummer and or raising taxes seem to hail from the NY area, well that and the most corrupt
of corrupt home town of the empty suit in chief himself! 

neither of these phrases make any sense to me, and neither does the copy and paste of the tax poem.

If you didn't find humor in the truth of that poem one would have to assume that you're either a long may it last
welfare recipient or just hopelessly lost to the cause
Do you pay tax at all ?... if so, I hope you're writing a check for 3 or 4 times the amount owed and taking no deductions,
you know just for the cause an all and to prove you're not full of shite somehow I doubt it very much

[heganboy]

lets do this point by point:

Point 1.
my opinion is that tax policy in the US is asinine, personal and corporate taxes both. In particular the taxes on the highest earners i.e. zero personal tax. How can you justify a hedge fund manager taking home $30M but paying zero tax on that income? How can you justify an american company bringing in $19 Billion dollars in profit yet paying no tax in the US (Exxon, in fact received a $150Million dollar tax rebate see rest of list below) . 57% of companies in the US have gone without paying tax for a year in the last 8 tax years. Tax on fuel further screws up the economy, and the corporation taxes here in the US are boosting foreign economies not the US domestic economy. As for standard and poors, I have read the report, and I have been reading reports from them every day for 10 years, I have kept some of their better ones, Lehman triple A ratings, AIG triple A ratings, US mortgage backed securities, CDOs. McGraw-Hill is a publishing company, some fiction, some non fiction.

Credit rating is based on the likelihood of a default on debt. The debt ceiling brinkmanship that played out over the last few weeks showed that there was a strong likelihood that American politicians of all backgrounds would allow the country to default on its loans.

Your opinion is the spending is the issue, no matter how clearly you state it, its still an opinion. You have however compared the US economy to a household in the past, so allow me to have a different opinion. Spending is certainly a problem, (how would stopping two wars/ military campaigns impact that spending), however it is over shadowed by the lack of taxation that are applied to certain sections of business and certain types of income. If it were as simple as you seem to see it- why doesn't everyone move to Delaware?

The public perception of this issue in the US is influenced by politicians, and that means soundbites and cherry picking of issues that they know will resonate. It doesn't suit a politician who wants to get elected to say "our tax code is a steaming pile of shite so we'll have to rewrite it" or "the spending commitments we have agreed to in order to get all these crappy bills passed that we scare mongered folks into supporting are complete bullshit and we basically bought votes in both houses by sticking this crap in there, but I got re-elected last time so who cares?" However look at the press and support you receive when you say "we're spending too much when I'm in power I'll spend less"

I am very happy to hear that you agree with cutting spending, but if you don't have a view on what taxation policy should be to pay for the spending that you do happen to agree with. Or maybe if you can cite one example of cutting government spending to stimulate an economy, or maybe cite a theory as to how this time its going to be different (remember no promising change..) then I'll be more than happy to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Point number 2.
Liberalism is not democratic US politics, nor is it GOP. I may be a liberal but I fail to see why gay marriage being legalized in New York has anything to do with tax policy. I would also argue strongly that on this issue that I'm not the one with his head buried in the sand (or over simplifying). Also raising taxes, as we have all seen over the last few weeks, has very little to do with the President, that would be a congressional issue, but as previously don't let the facts or logic get in the way of your point. or alternatively throw in yet another complete irrelevance into the discussion to "prove your point". For the record my line of work is at least 95% republican, and where I live although liberal in most senses of the word also votes consistently republican. And without trying to cast aspersions on your detective skills, and things being lost on you (the irony) who else from New York (or Chicago assuming you now allow that the President of the USA wasn't born in Kenya) is advocating tax increases, and who from outside of those areas (other than your good self) is advocating tax reductions?

Point 3.
you asked me to explain why it didn't make sense to me, but now apparently its about a sense of humor? And seeking truth in poetry? I do pay tax, I have a nice little accountant who works out exactly what I owe, and then I write 3 checks, one to NJ, one to NY and one to the IRS. All of them will send you back a check for the difference if you pay more than you owe just for future reference.
Now maybe you answer the questions
1. What do you think that tax levels should be in the US?
2. And what do you think people should pay taxes on?
3. What do you think corporations and businesses should pay taxes on?

While you're at it, can tell me what cause this is you're referring to and why I'm full of shite? ( because the dumb answer will get a reply asking you to write a check for less than you owe( assuming you actually pay tax)and then take your case to the supreme court- let me know how you get on with that...)

Or maybe you can come back with something other than a little sound bite without logic, reasoning or any basic economic common sense. Accuse me of being something or other, sympathizing with someone or other (and their ilk), disparaging remark about the president or another member of the democratic party who you seem to assume I have some allegiance to. Diversionary tactics wont be entertained either.

And food for thought, as you seem annoyed at being in the top 50% of tax payers and seem very pissed at having to subsidize that 50% that earn less than $47,000 per family per year. Spare a thought for the poor buggers that earn more than $380,00 per family per year who pay more tax than everyone who earns less than $160,000 combined even with this tax system. Its a cruel world after all...

List of non tax paying US companies:
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8 ) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

[Rossfan]

Not going back through 52 pages ... but if a stupid country wants to spend loads of money it hasnt got  having a big army trying to rule the world , then borrows countless zillions of $ to bail out banks to whom it owes other countless zillions in the first place, , elects stupid pricks like Bush as a President and thinks the likes of Sarah Palin is sensible , gets involved in a cowboys and "Indians" war in Afghanistan plus throws billions to the rogue state of Israel......
No wonder the place is fcuked.... 

Of course not... for fear you might learn something or read a different angle from what's ingrained
in you, Back to the gaurdian you go

I don't read foreign newspapers  and anyway it's the Guardian 

Sort of backing up my belief that ultra right wing US republicans are'nt exactly too  bright.

Anyway you seem to be the only one that is totally ingrained on this subject.

If the US stopped trying to take over the rest of the world they'd have plenty of money.
Afghanistan toppled the USSR Empire and it 's well on the way to ending the US/MultiNational/Capitalist Empire.

[Tyrones own]

For those wondering who this Joe Scarborough (MSNBC) that TO is crowing about is, he is a former hard right Republican congressman and Clinton hater. Has moderated his vitriol since landing his tv/radio gig, but liberal equivalent of Limbaugh or Hannity he ain't, MSNBC or not.

Ah typical...the auld damage control out in force trying to down play it!
fair and balanced MSNBC most Definitely is not and Mr Scarborough is very well suited to it!
Nice try though

I see, so Scarborough's a liberal now, is he??!

Well those who are interested can do their own research.

Regardless, I've made no comment on his statement anyway. Just pointing out to those who don't get MSNBC what Scarborough in fact is, and that he is NOT a liberal commentator, as your "MSNBC no less" comment implied.

As for MSNBC itself, there's a reason I don't watch a station that is trying to be the liberal equivalent of Fox, but I will at least give them credit for having a conservative commentator as their primary morning host. Unless things have changed recently, there is no equivalent on "we report, you decide" Fox.

Ok then here's another of a long list of once faithful followers
...I suppose she's a conservative also 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/opinion/withholder-in-chief.xml

[Tyrones own]

Not going back through 52 pages ... but if a stupid country wants to spend loads of money it hasnt got  having a big army trying to rule the world , then borrows countless zillions of $ to bail out banks to whom it owes other countless zillions in the first place, , elects stupid pricks like Bush as a President and thinks the likes of Sarah Palin is sensible , gets involved in a cowboys and "Indians" war in Afghanistan plus throws billions to the rogue state of Israel......
No wonder the place is fcuked.... 

Of course not... for fear you might learn something or read a different angle from what's ingrained
in you, Back to the gaurdian you go

I don't read foreign newspapers  and anyway it's the Guardian 

Sort of backing up my belief that ultra right wing US republicans are'nt exactly too  bright.

Anyway you seem to be the only one that is totally ingrained on this subject.

If the US stopped trying to take over the rest of the world they'd have plenty of money.
Afghanistan toppled the USSR Empire and it 's well on the way to ending the US/MultiNational/Capitalist Empire.

You are'nt in much of a position to lecture me on the spelling of a paper
I wouldn't wipe my arse with now are you

[Orangemac]

Who is looking like winning the Republican nomination next year?

Does Sarah Palin have a chance or will they go for someone more moderate like Mitt Romney?

[NetNitrate]

America was done long before Obama came to power. It's a bit daft giving much thought to a company like Standard & Poors considering they gave Lehman Brothers a Triple A rating right up to the moment they went bankrupt. explain that Tyrone. The system was rotten to the core long, long ago. America was rotten to the core. Nothing to do with Obama. He was left with a mess that won't be fixed for a long time. Maybe never. America is a country with too many rich white guys playing golf in places like Scottsdale. Living off their wealth and not putting anything back to the system except complaining about taxes and big government. The country has stagnated. There's a few exceptions like the tech sector but that bubble will blow up soon.

[omochain]

lets do this point by point:

Point 1.
my opinion is that tax policy in the US is asinine, personal and corporate taxes both. In particular the taxes on the highest earners i.e. zero personal tax. How can you justify a hedge fund manager taking home $30M but paying zero tax on that income? How can you justify an american company bringing in $19 Billion dollars in profit yet paying no tax in the US (Exxon, in fact received a $150Million dollar tax rebate see rest of list below) . 57% of companies in the US have gone without paying tax for a year in the last 8 tax years. Tax on fuel further screws up the economy, and the corporation taxes here in the US are boosting foreign economies not the US domestic economy. As for standard and poors, I have read the report, and I have been reading reports from them every day for 10 years, I have kept some of their better ones, Lehman triple A ratings, AIG triple A ratings, US mortgage backed securities, CDOs. McGraw-Hill is a publishing company, some fiction, some non fiction.

Credit rating is based on the likelihood of a default on debt. The debt ceiling brinkmanship that played out over the last few weeks showed that there was a strong likelihood that American politicians of all backgrounds would allow the country to default on its loans.

Your opinion is the spending is the issue, no matter how clearly you state it, its still an opinion. You have however compared the US economy to a household in the past, so allow me to have a different opinion. Spending is certainly a problem, (how would stopping two wars/ military campaigns impact that spending), however it is over shadowed by the lack of taxation that are applied to certain sections of business and certain types of income. If it were as simple as you seem to see it- why doesn't everyone move to Delaware?

The public perception of this issue in the US is influenced by politicians, and that means soundbites and cherry picking of issues that they know will resonate. It doesn't suit a politician who wants to get elected to say "our tax code is a steaming pile of shite so we'll have to rewrite it" or "the spending commitments we have agreed to in order to get all these crappy bills passed that we scare mongered folks into supporting are complete bullshit and we basically bought votes in both houses by sticking this crap in there, but I got re-elected last time so who cares?" However look at the press and support you receive when you say "we're spending too much when I'm in power I'll spend less"

I am very happy to hear that you agree with cutting spending, but if you don't have a view on what taxation policy should be to pay for the spending that you do happen to agree with. Or maybe if you can cite one example of cutting government spending to stimulate an economy, or maybe cite a theory as to how this time its going to be different (remember no promising change..) then I'll be more than happy to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Point number 2.
Liberalism is not democratic US politics, nor is it GOP. I may be a liberal but I fail to see why gay marriage being legalized in New York has anything to do with tax policy. I would also argue strongly that on this issue that I'm not the one with his head buried in the sand (or over simplifying). Also raising taxes, as we have all seen over the last few weeks, has very little to do with the President, that would be a congressional issue, but as previously don't let the facts or logic get in the way of your point. or alternatively throw in yet another complete irrelevance into the discussion to "prove your point". For the record my line of work is at least 95% republican, and where I live although liberal in most senses of the word also votes consistently republican. And without trying to cast aspersions on your detective skills, and things being lost on you (the irony) who else from New York (or Chicago assuming you now allow that the President of the USA wasn't born in Kenya) is advocating tax increases, and who from outside of those areas (other than your good self) is advocating tax reductions?

Point 3.
you asked me to explain why it didn't make sense to me, but now apparently its about a sense of humor? And seeking truth in poetry? I do pay tax, I have a nice little accountant who works out exactly what I owe, and then I write 3 checks, one to NJ, one to NY and one to the IRS. All of them will send you back a check for the difference if you pay more than you owe just for future reference.
Now maybe you answer the questions
1. What do you think that tax levels should be in the US?
2. And what do you think people should pay taxes on?
3. What do you think corporations and businesses should pay taxes on?

While you're at it, can tell me what cause this is you're referring to and why I'm full of shite? ( because the dumb answer will get a reply asking you to write a check for less than you owe( assuming you actually pay tax)and then take your case to the supreme court- let me know how you get on with that...)

Or maybe you can come back with something other than a little sound bite without logic, reasoning or any basic economic common sense. Accuse me of being something or other, sympathizing with someone or other (and their ilk), disparaging remark about the president or another member of the democratic party who you seem to assume I have some allegiance to. Diversionary tactics wont be entertained either.

And food for thought, as you seem annoyed at being in the top 50% of tax payers and seem very pissed at having to subsidize that 50% that earn less than $47,000 per family per year. Spare a thought for the poor buggers that earn more than $380,00 per family per year who pay more tax than everyone who earns less than $160,000 combined even with this tax system. Its a cruel world after all...

List of non tax paying US companies:
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8 ) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

I had my doubts about the quality of the education that i got at SPCA but they seem to have done a good job on you, lad from just south of portydown. That was a tremedous post ... maybe Mr. Tir Own Own will actually read it and wind his nexk in.