Marc Wilson -Portsmouth

[Main Street]

He's right
being stopped declaring for a country IS akin to declaring for a country's passport
in this way you are then being denied your rights under EU law if what is being said to stop young Wilson is true - its illegal under EU law.
Falls under citezens rights charter.
The by product is the contract rights but this particular instance based on self determination when multiple passports are indeed available.

Which one?
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32000X1218(01):EN:HTML

Until there is a closing or ruling as to who can declare for which country Ireland/England based on birthplace/parent/grandparent - then this remains very much open and there will be feck all fifa can do to make any case that will ALWAYS be over ruled by the proper legislation adhered to be EU and supported by UN.

It has already been decided. FIFA have accepted the applications from NI born players to declare for the Republic and have continued to do so since the FAI first started the process.
FIFA stated in 2006 that there was nothing wrong with this practice. FIFA considered an appeal from the IFA and threw it out last December.
What more do you want?
What part of -  anyone born anywhere on the planet with a parent/ grandparent from the 6 counties has the right to declare for the Republic -   do you not get?
Can it be clearer?

You view is correct within the realm of fifa, but in reality would never stand up in a court of law which will ruel in favour for the likes of Wilson (as in bosman before him) every time.

Bosman is contractual, freedom of movement.
International football is not contractual.
National football eligibility criteria comes straight from FIFA´s constitution.
The IFA had 4 weeks only to take FIFA´s decision, to have no change made last December in Japan,  to the Sports court.
Instead they went around screaming  "we won" "we won".

Each sport federation has its own national eligibility criteria.

[nifan]

fudgepacker

classy

do you know mrs robinson?

[nifan]

i think ms has pretty much got it dead on.

[Main Street]

fudgepacker

classy

do you know mrs robinson?

I had to look up what that term meant.
You caught him red hander.

[magickingdom]

A player does not need permission from the IFA to do what he is entitled to do, i.e. declare for the Republic.
That permission is enshrined in FIFA rules of eligibility for National federations.

Fortunatly for the players, while FIFA are fronted by politicians in suits, there is a backbone of a legal department to make sure the rules are adhered to properly. That is one of the reasons the players from the North have been allowed to declare for the Republic, there is a proper legal understanding in FIFA of the rules of eligibility and the dual citizenship that is the birthright of players like Marc Wilson.

Should a player from the North be refused permission to register with the FAI then it would be up to the FAI to take it up with FIFA.
If FIFA were still not shifting then the FAI can only take it to the Sports Courts of Arbitration.
Then the ruling from that Sports Court is final. There is no going to the European Court of Human Rights.
 

that sums it up in a nut shell. btw imo if it was left up to fifa (with the british influence) they would have found a way to stop players born in ni opting for the roi. the reality is fifa cannot stop it so the ifa can rant on all they want.

[Donagh]

It was his birthright since the Free State was founded.
Dual citizenship has existed for decades before GFA.
Your birthright is not granted by the Brits or the NI assembly. Your birthright to Irish citizenship is in the Republic's constitution.

No it wasn't. When I first got my passport in the 80's I had to prove eligibility through my grandparents being born on the island pre-partition. Now that qualification doesn't exist since the GFA had the consitution changed.

[Donagh]

The GFA is SFA when it comes to dual nationality, Irish citizenship has been the birthright of all born on Island since 1922.
It is astonishing that you are not aware of that.

If you think the GFA gives people in the north dual nationality then you misunderstand the concept. The GFA guarantees the right to Irish or British nationality or both so if Wilson chooses not to adopt dual nationality he can be Irish only if he so wishes. Article 2 of Bunreacht na hÉireann was changed to reflect this.

Being a Monaghan man who has never had to prove eligibility to hold the passport which reflects your nationality it does not astonish me that you were not aware of this or the significance of the change.

[magickingdom]

It was his birthright since the Free State was founded.
Dual citizenship has existed for decades before GFA.
Your birthright is not granted by the Brits or the NI assembly. Your birthright to Irish citizenship is in the Republic's constitution.

No it wasn't. When I first got my passport in the 80's I had to prove eligibility through my grandparents being born on the island pre-partition. Now that qualification doesn't exist since the GFA had the consitution changed.

i have no idea why that was donagh - pre gfa people born in ni were able to get irish passports by virtue of the fact that they were born in ireland.

[Donagh]

i have no idea why that was donagh - pre gfa people born in ni were able to get irish passports by virtue of the fact that they were born in ireland.

I just found the following on Wiki:

Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1956, any person born on the island of Ireland was:

    * automatically an Irish citizen if born:
          o in the Republic of Ireland, or
          o in Northern Ireland before 6 December 1922; or
          o in Northern Ireland on or after 6 December 1922 with a parent who was an Irish citizen at the time of birth
    * entitled to be an Irish citizen if born in Northern Ireland and not automatically an Irish citizen

As my parents were born after 1922 and my father refused to carry a "Free State" passport for a long time, to be entitled to my automatic nationality I had to prove I was the son of an Irish citizen by supplying evidence that my grandparents were born on the island pre-1922. Easy enough to do but it was by no means an automatic birthright as MS implies. Thankfully this indignity was abolished by the GFA and now northerners have almost the same rights as southerners.

[magickingdom]

under the 1956 act anyone born on the island of ireland was entitled to an irish passport. during the days of article 2 and 3 that was a constitutional right which could only be changed by referendum (and was at the time of gfa)

[Donagh]

under the 1956 act anyone born on the island of ireland was entitled to an irish passport. during the days of article 2 and 3 that was a constitutional right which could only be changed by referendum (and was at the time of gfa)

But northerners had to prove entitlement. Besides, being entitled to a passport is not the same as automatic nationality or citizenship which is the case now. Therefore can Wilson qualifiy for the Irish soccer team under the same criteria as players born in the south i.e. there is no need to go down any convoluted routes with arguments about dual citizenship. If he so wishes, he is Irish, end of... This is guranteed by international treaty registered with the UN, the Good Friday Agreement. The IFA and FIFA would have some job getting around that.

[Main Street]

i have no idea why that was donagh - pre gfa people born in ni were able to get irish passports by virtue of the fact that they were born in ireland.

I just found the following on Wiki:

Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1956, any person born on the island of Ireland was:

    * automatically an Irish citizen if born:
          o in the Republic of Ireland, or
          o in Northern Ireland before 6 December 1922; or
          o in Northern Ireland on or after 6 December 1922 with a parent who was an Irish citizen at the time of birth
    * entitled to be an Irish citizen if born in Northern Ireland and not automatically an Irish citizen

As my parents were born after 1922 and my father refused to carry a "Free State" passport for a long time, to be entitled to my automatic nationality I had to prove I was the son of an Irish citizen by supplying evidence that my grandparents were born on the island pre-1922. Easy enough to do but it was by no means an automatic birthright as MS implies. Thankfully this indignity was abolished by the GFA and now northerners have almost the same rights as southerners.

You have to go to the horses mouth. It states clearly that if you were over 18, you just had to declare yourself, if you were not of age then your guardian had to declare you, in the "prescribed manner".
It is my understanding that the "prescribed manner" was filling out a form with a harp on top.
If not, then I am truly astonished.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1956/en/act/pub/0026/sec0007.html
Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1956

Section 6. subsection (1) Every person born in Ireland is an Irish citizen from birth.

Section 7   subsection( 1) Pending the re-integration of the national territory, subsection (1) of section 6 shall not apply to a person, not otherwise an Irish citizen, born in Northern Ireland on or after the 6th December, 1922, unless, in the prescribed manner, that person, if of full age, declares himself to be an Irish citizen or, if he is not of full age, his parent or guardian declares him to be an Irish citizen. In any such case, the subsection shall be deemed to apply to him from birth.

[Donagh]

You have to go to the horses mouth. It states clearly that if you were over 18, you just had to declare yourself, if you were not of age then your guardian had to declare you, in the "prescribed manner".
It is my understanding that the "prescribed manner" was filling out a form with a harp on top.
If not, then I am truly astonished.

i.e. there was not automatic citizenship on the same basis as southerners at the time and as we have today.

So the situation pre GFA was that northerners were British and if they declared/proved, then they could be Irish as well as British (dual). The situation now is that northerners can automatically be either (Irish or British) or both. An important and significant distinction especially with regard to Wilson as he now bypasses all of that FIFA nonsense.

[lynchbhoy]

He's right
being stopped declaring for a country IS akin to declaring for a country's passport
in this way you are then being denied your rights under EU law if what is being said to stop young Wilson is true - its illegal under EU law.
Falls under citezens rights charter.
The by product is the contract rights but this particular instance based on self determination when multiple passports are indeed available.

Which one?
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32000X1218(01):EN:HTML

Until there is a closing or ruling as to who can declare for which country Ireland/England based on birthplace/parent/grandparent - then this remains very much open and there will be feck all fifa can do to make any case that will ALWAYS be over ruled by the proper legislation adhered to be EU and supported by UN.

It has already been decided. FIFA have accepted the applications from NI born players to declare for the Republic and have continued to do so since the FAI first started the process.
FIFA stated in 2006 that there was nothing wrong with this practice. FIFA considered an appeal from the IFA and threw it out last December.
What more do you want?
What part of -  anyone born anywhere on the planet with a parent/ grandparent from the 6 counties has the right to declare for the Republic -   do you not get?
Can it be clearer?

You view is correct within the realm of fifa, but in reality would never stand up in a court of law which will ruel in favour for the likes of Wilson (as in bosman before him) every time.

Bosman is contractual, freedom of movement.
International football is not contractual.
National football eligibility criteria comes straight from FIFA´s constitution.
The IFA had 4 weeks only to take FIFA´s decision, to have no change made last December in Japan,  to the Sports court.
Instead they went around screaming  "we won" "we won".

Each sport federation has its own national eligibility criteria.

I am not sure what you are arguing about as what you have said is effectively the same as I am saying...


the only addition or difference is that if ifa or fifa tried to force their ruling upon this wilson lad or anyone else, it would be another 'bosman-like' situation, where the EU courts would rule in favour of the person and their human rights to in this case belong to Ireland and eligible for an Irish passport.
Magic kingdom is right, if fifa had the ability to stop this , it would have been done long before now. They know eu law would destroy them !

[Main Street]

You have to go to the horses mouth. It states clearly that if you were over 18, you just had to declare yourself, if you were not of age then your guardian had to declare you, in the "prescribed manner".
It is my understanding that the "prescribed manner" was filling out a form with a harp on top.
If not, then I am truly astonished.

i.e. there was not automatic citizenship on the same basis as southerners at the time and as we have today.

So the situation pre GFA was that northerners were British and if they declared/proved, then they could be Irish as well as British (dual). The situation now is that northerners can automatically be either (Irish or British) or both. An important and significant distinction especially with regard to Wilson as he now bypasses all of that FIFA nonsense.

Agreed, in that it was not as automatic.
But it was just another form to fill out. There was no requirement to prove anything other than you were born in the 6 counties.
To meet that requirement of proof for place of birth and guarantor was the same for everybody, even those more Irish than you:).
Legally it was the same as dual citizenship because you had the birthright to declare and legally that would satisfy FIFA criteria right to the present day.
It was just the FAI agreed to leave Northern born alone to the IFA until Brian Kerr came along