Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[armaghniac]

No bile in my post, Lubo. And, no, I don't deny that Russia is corrupt, or that they have conscripts. However, the same is true of Ukraine - but I would say Ukraine is probably more careless with the lives of its soldiers, throwing poorly trained conscripts into 'cauldrons' and hopeless situations to hold the line while the more elite units retreat.
Of course, Russia tells lies, too - and I realise Putin is not our friend - but to depict Ukraine as the all-virtuous one is too much to swallow.

It isn't rocket science, Russia invaded Ukraine not the other way around. Russia has killed tens of thousands of civilians by deliberately targetting civilian targets.
Justifying Russia is like justifying rape because the woman wore a short skirt.

[Horse Box]

On my 'newsfeed' a minute ago was "What countries will Putin invade next?". Some people gobble this rubbish up.

Absolutely , people buy what the Mainstream Media tell you or some Clown will put a Video up on Youtube like the example you have given ( I`ve come across it ) , people are too lazy to do research themselves and see what the reality of the situation is .

Oh yeah and the open-minded non-lazy people's 'own research' typically involves watching a few Max Blumenthal 'investigations' and swallowing his bullshit hook, line and sinker.

Heard of him? I know you have. Skull definitely has. 

No .

[Horse Box]

You don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .

One of the most disturbing things is the Ukrainian Press Gangs , dragging people of the streets and forcing them into the Army . One place this has happened alot is transcarpathia a region with a large ethnic Hungarian community . To the Ukrainians it is a good way to cull the Hungarians as most of them would like the area to be part of Hungary .

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30122

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20240301/281883008288800

[armaghniac]

You don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .

Russia invaded in 2014 and of course there has been some shelling on the front since then, by no means were these shells going one way. As somebody noted above, Ukraine does not have the ammunition to waste on shelling random targets.
And of course if Russia withdraws to their own borders then the people of Belgorod needn't worry.

[Lubo Moravcik]

Poor, brave, righteous, Ukraine is going to win the war. The incompetent, corrupt, and conscripted Russians are using 'human-wave' assaults, and medieval tactics. We must stop Putin before he starts WWIII/ invades the EU.
Also, I'm sure quite a few of the "civilian targets" were not civilian targets, at all. Ukraine is a master of propaganda itself. Perfectly understandable in a war, of course, but it doesn't mean we should report and believe everything Zelensky says as gospel.

Whoa let all that bile out there Burdizzo, let it out. Maybe you'll feel better and lay off of the refugees for a while.

The mainstream 'narrative' shifts and changes as the war changes. Remember when Ukraine wouldn't last 3 weeks against Russia?

Can you point me to a mainstream news source that says Ukraine is definitely going to win this war? The best I've seen is that they 'can' win. Nobody is under any illusion of the difficulty of achieving that.

The Russian army has shown vast levels of incompetence but it's acknowledged that they have learned, adapted and gotten better as the war progressed.

Are you denying Russia is corrupt? Was Alexei Navalny deluded about the levels of corruption in Russia?

Are you denying Russia uses conscription and shows callous disregard for the welfare of their soldiers?

Quite a few civilian targets, weren't civilians targets? Which ones? The shopping malls, maternity hospitals or the civilian apartment blocks?

Can't wait to get over to History Legends and do some 'research'

No bile in my post, Lubo. And, no, I don't deny that Russia is corrupt, or that they have conscripts. However, the same is true of Ukraine - but I would say Ukraine is probably more careless with the lives of its soldiers, throwing poorly trained conscripts into 'cauldrons' and hopeless situations to hold the line while the more elite units retreat.
Of course, Russia tells lies, too - and I realise Putin is not our friend - but to depict Ukraine as the all-virtuous one is too much to swallow.

Oh yeah - I do believe one of the "civilian targets" was in fact a military meeting. Also, Ukraine blamed Russia for an attack on a marketplace that turned out to have been their own missile. I realise it's war, so propaganda and lies are part of it all, but you really should take a lot of it with a pinch of salt.

Welcome to the upside down world of Russian propaganda. This is what the 'researchers' come up with when they set off on their missions for the 'truth'.  I've a feeling I'm going to hear the word 'cauldron' a lot when I finally get round to visiting 'History Legends, but let's see.

Not one single Ukrainian would have been conscripted (or Russian) if Russia had not invaded. Not one single Ukrainian (or Russian) would have died if Russia had not invaded. And still, over two years later, we still have this delusional rubbish.

So out of hundreds of attacks on civilians and thousands of deaths you have managed two examples. Military meeting? Was that like the Hamas military meeting in the Rafah camp two nights ago?

The marketplace - I think I remember the one you mean - there's been so many it's hard to know. Something vague about a 'shadow' meaning it was definitely the Ukrainians (in the eyes of a Blumenthal). Even if it was a stray air defense, ask yourself, why is the firing of air defense missiles necessary in the first place.

[theskull1]

No acknowledgement that bringing an army up to a border (after years of US backed revolution and conflict in that said country) is an act of aggression. 

One side good ..... the other side bad

[Bord na Mona man]

No acknowledgement that bringing an army up to a border (after years of US backed revolution and conflict in that said country) is an act of aggression. 

One side good ..... the other side bad

Russia acting in self defence. 
Those theatres and hospitals really are dangerous things that could attack Russia at any moment.

[Horse Box]

You don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .

Russia invaded in 2014 and of course there has been some shelling on the front since then, by no means were these shells going one way. As somebody noted above, Ukraine does not have the ammunition to waste on shelling random targets.
And of course if Russia withdraws to their own borders then the people of Belgorod needn't worry.

New York Times 2014 :

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html

[Lubo Moravcik]

No acknowledgement that bringing an army up to a border (after years of US backed revolution and conflict in that said country) is an act of aggression. 

One side good ..... the other side bad

Ok then, let's deal with the NATO nonsense once and for all.

First of all Ukraine isn't in NATO and wasn't about to join anytime soon. It had neutral status which it's parliament only voted to end in December 2014 AFTER Russia invaded. A pretty good reason if you ask me. Ukraine's road to NATO was not guaranteed in any case with all member stated having to agree (Hungary anyone?).

Is NATO a threat to Russia? Russia loves reminding everyone it has nuclear weapons and it's not afraid to use them. Yet somehow we are all expected to believe that NATO was planning to attack Russia. Russia has had NATO on it's borders since 1999 (Poland) and again in 2004 (Baltics). When is this aggressive attack coming Skull? Finland joined NATO and Russia couldn't really care less. In fact they removed some of their military equipment from the Finnish border to Ukraine such is the grave danger of Finland's NATO membership. 

Free thinking 'researchers' love to cite that the US has broken a 'promise' to Russia regarding NATO not expanding. Two points about this which you can tell the 'researchers' again and again and again but they always forget and repeat it anyway.

First a conservation over dinner is not an international agreement (unlike the actual agreements Ukraine had with Russia to respect it's borders).

Second - the discussion was specifically about the reunification of Germany and NATO expansion into former DDR territory after reunification. James Baker told Gorbachev not one inch (which they have stuck to). The other countries weren't even considered as the Warsaw pact was still in place and the USSR hand't yet collapse. Why would it even be discussed or considered. Gorbachev even confirms all this in an interview later. 'Researchers' can easily find this interview online but they don't seem to be able to for some reason.

As it happens - the USSR collapsed and the former Warsaw Pact countries one after another all applied to join NATO. Democratic governments. Mearsheimer with his morally bankrupt theories of Russian power would deny the NATO security blanket to millions of people. The Baltics would already have had the Ukraine and Georgia treatment if not for NATO.

Which brings us to the question of why does Russia REALLY not want Ukraine to join NATO. It's simple really - once inside they're untouchable. Not because of a fictional NATO attack, not because of Nazis (we can go there if you want) and certainly not because of any fictional ethnic cleansing of Russians in the Donbas region (and now fictional ethnic cleansing in Transcarpathia according to 'researcher' Horsebox).

So yes Skull, One side good, one side bad. That's the status you reserve only for 'Palestine - Israel' but in your denial of the Ukrainian right to be free from Russian aggression once and for all you only expose yourself as a hypocrite.

Edit: I forgot to add, such was NATOs desire for aggression and confrontation with Russia that one of the leaders of NATO (Germany) was pursuing a policy of economic cooperation and mutual benefit with Russia, even going so far as to build another direct gas pipeline with them.

[theskull1]

The US (and whoever is influencing their politicians) has involved themselves in too many wars, coups, proxy wars for me
 (it's endless) to believe anything that supports their narrative. Paranoia can be a healthy defensive position to take against outside threats, so it's not surprising to me they reacted. The lack of diplomatic engagement efforts by the west has been striking to me.   
   
Would never call any side intrinsically good.

[Horse Box]

So Zelensky`s term as President is over since last week , however it doesn`t look like an Election will be called . Suits the US/NATO as they have their Puppet in place . Zelensky is not that popular at the moment in Ukraine so the Polls might not be kind to him .
Interesting too that all Pro Russian Parties in Ukraine are banned , this is the kind of Democracy the US and the West likes when it gets it`s hands on you ! It leaves a large section of Ukrainian Society disenfranchised , not just in the Donbass area .

[armaghniac]

So Zelensky`s term as President is over since last week , however it doesn`t look like an Election will be called . Suits the US/NATO as they have their Puppet in place . Zelensky is not that popular at the moment in Ukraine so the Polls might not be kind to him .
Interesting too that all Pro Russian Parties in Ukraine are banned , this is the kind of Democracy the US and the West likes when it gets it`s hands on you ! It leaves a large section of Ukrainian Society disenfranchised , not just in the Donbass area .

There were no elections in Britain during the war, it isn't the time for an election.
Pro Nazi parties were also banned in Britain during the war.
There aren't so many pro Russian Ukrainians now, after being bombed by them. It is a complete fallacy to declare that all Russian speakers want to be ruled from Moscow, just as all people in Kildare do want to be ruled from London although they have spoken English for centuries. If Russian speakers were discriminated against then why would they not want to replace Zelensky with a fior-Ukrainian?

[armaghniac]

No acknowledgement that bringing an army up to a border (after years of US backed revolution and conflict in that said country) is an act of aggression. 

One side good ..... the other side bad

Russia had actual bases in Ukraine, was that an act of aggression?
There was conflict in that country, shit stirred up by Russia which tried to thwart the wishes of the Ukrainian people to join the EU.

[Horse Box]

So Zelensky`s term as President is over since last week , however it doesn`t look like an Election will be called . Suits the US/NATO as they have their Puppet in place . Zelensky is not that popular at the moment in Ukraine so the Polls might not be kind to him .
Interesting too that all Pro Russian Parties in Ukraine are banned , this is the kind of Democracy the US and the West likes when it gets it`s hands on you ! It leaves a large section of Ukrainian Society disenfranchised , not just in the Donbass area .

There were no elections in Britain during the war, it isn't the time for an election.
Pro Nazi parties were also banned in Britain during the war.
There aren't so many pro Russian Ukrainians now, after being bombed by them. It is a complete fallacy to declare that all Russian speakers want to be ruled from Moscow, just as all people in Kildare do want to be ruled from London although they have spoken English for centuries. If Russian speakers were discriminated against then why would they not want to replace Zelensky with a fior-Ukrainian?

When did I "declare" that . There is a large ethnic Russian Community in Ukraine , not all speak Russian as a first Language . Alot of Ukrainians speak Russian as a first language , it doesn`t make them Russian ! ! Language alone doesn`t define who you are ! ! !

[Horse Box]

So Zelensky`s term as President is over since last week , however it doesn`t look like an Election will be called . Suits the US/NATO as they have their Puppet in place . Zelensky is not that popular at the moment in Ukraine so the Polls might not be kind to him .
Interesting too that all Pro Russian Parties in Ukraine are banned , this is the kind of Democracy the US and the West likes when it gets it`s hands on you ! It leaves a large section of Ukrainian Society disenfranchised , not just in the Donbass area .

There were no elections in Britain during the war, it isn't the time for an election.
Pro Nazi parties were also banned in Britain during the war.
There aren't so many pro Russian Ukrainians now, after being bombed by them. It is a complete fallacy to declare that all Russian speakers want to be ruled from Moscow, just as all people in Kildare do want to be ruled from London although they have spoken English for centuries. If Russian speakers were discriminated against then why would they not want to replace Zelensky with a fior-Ukrainian?

You can`t compare Nazi Parties in Britain at that time with Parties in Ukraine that represent an ethnic Minority . Are you seriously telling me that The Antifascist Committee of Ukraine , The Communist Party of Ukraine and Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine are Nazi Parties ?