The OFFICIAL Liverpool FC thread - #DankeJürgen

[johnnycool]

Read yesterday that black people are 4 times more likely to die from Covid 19, then white people. Why would black players bother putting themselves at risk?
Danny Rose came out strong against returning.

There's nothing for Danny Rose to play for, so why would he take the risk, perceived or otherwise.

Ask Trent-Arnold and you'll get a different answer entirely.

[rodney trotter]

There is more then Rose. Sterling also. He has a possible FA Cup and CL if they want to complete it.

Possibly a lot more too but not made public.  Aguero was the first to go public..

[brokencrossbar1]

To be honest we are hearing what certain people want us to hear. Each club will have representatives at the meetings so if the games are rescheduled, which it seems likely they will be, then it's going to be on the basis of a consensus with all the clubs or the majority at least. The reality is no one knows what is being discussed and apart from sound bites from the likes of Sterling, Aguero and Rose(whom I just think wants to seem relevant as he has become irrelevant in recent seasons) there is actually very little coming out from players.

[thewobbler]

Listen. You may outwardly propel that this season must finish. That is, I suppose what supporters must do. But if inwardly you can convince yourself that it's feasible for competitors to accept the legitimacy of a competition, when proposing changes to its core structures with 25% of that competition still remaining, then you might as well convince yourself that Santa Claus exists.

[Hound]

Listen. You may outwardly propel that this season must finish. That is, I suppose what supporters must do. But if inwardly you can convince yourself that it's feasible for competitors to accept the legitimacy of a competition, when proposing changes to its core structures with 25% of that competition still remaining, then you might as well convince yourself that Santa Claus exists.

This is the bit that surprised me from the beginning. For me, a big essence of fairness is everyone being aware of all the rules at the start and not changing anything substantive until the competition ends. Relegating teams when the season has not been completed, or not promoting teams because the season was not completed is blatantly unfair. I believe those countries that rushed into saying the season is either deemed to be completed or just void made big mistakes.

So I would have gone down the line of finishing the season, however long that takes. If it takes till Christmas, then next season is only half as long, but everyone knows it at the start. It'll be unusual having the transfer window open in the summer, when the "season" is still ongoing, but at least it's the same for everyone and it has to open as normal, with so many contracts ending in the summer.

[trueblue1234]

Listen. You may outwardly propel that this season must finish. That is, I suppose what supporters must do. But if inwardly you can convince yourself that it's feasible for competitors to accept the legitimacy of a competition, when proposing changes to its core structures with 25% of that competition still remaining, then you might as well convince yourself that Santa Claus exists.

But voiding the season is equally as big a change to the core structure. I think everyone accepts that current circumstances are unprecedented and that there will have to be a change from the norm. That's a given. No matter what's decided be it void the season, decided on PPG, wait until we can finish it out etc, someone's going to question the legitimacy of the decision.

[thewobbler]

Listen. You may outwardly propel that this season must finish. That is, I suppose what supporters must do. But if inwardly you can convince yourself that it's feasible for competitors to accept the legitimacy of a competition, when proposing changes to its core structures with 25% of that competition still remaining, then you might as well convince yourself that Santa Claus exists.

But voiding the season is equally as big a change to the core structure. I think everyone accepts that current circumstances are unprecedented and that there will have to be a change from the norm. That's a given. No matter what's decided be it void the season, decided on PPG, wait until we can finish it out etc, someone's going to question the legitimacy of the decision.

The least litigious route through this I would expect is to void the season entirely, citing reasons beyond the organiser's control. Award nothing. Relegate nobody. Same clubs enter Europe as did in the voided season.

Any other solution would involve changing competition regulations (lawsuits everywhere), or else extending this season into next (contractual issues and therefore lawsuits everywhere, not just with players, but media, sponsors, rent, league fees, etc, etc).

[GalwayBayBoy]

Voiding was taken off the menu weeks ago. It's not going to happen. At least not in the sense that people understand of voiding a season where we pretend the season never happened and results are expunged. Both UEFA and the FA have said if seasons cannot be completed on the field of play then they must be decided on sporting merit whether it's by PPG or weighted PPG to decide placings. It's up to the individual leagues to decide on champions and relegation. France announced champions. Holland did not as it was too tight at the top.

[laoislad]

Voiding was taken off the menu weeks ago. It's not going to happen. At least not in the sense that people understand of voiding a season where we pretend the season never happened and results are expunged. Both UEFA and the FA have said if seasons cannot be completed on the field of play then they must be decided on sporting merit whether it's by PPG or weighted PPG to decide placings. It's up to the individual leagues to decide on champions and relegation.

Yet we still have idiots calling for it...

[thewobbler]

Voiding was taken off the menu weeks ago. It's not going to happen. At least not in the sense that people understand of voiding a season where we pretend the season never happened and results are expunged. Both UEFA and the FA have said if seasons cannot be completed on the field of play then they must be decided on sporting merit whether it's by PPG or weighted PPG to decide placings. It's up to the individual leagues to decide on champions and relegation.

Yet we still have idiots calling for it...

Let's wait and see Laois Lad, before the name calling.

The term "sporting merit" is extraordinarily judicious.

Leave aside your beloved Liverpool for a second, and assuming City's punishment stands.

Call the season now and Sheffield United would not qualify for the CL, as they're in 7th. Call it on points per game and they don't make it either, missing out on 5th spot by a thread. But here's the thing, they've played one less game than Man Utd, and a win in that game would give them more points and more points per game. It would put them in the Champions League.

There is no "sporting merit" solution there.

Aston Villa's situation, currently in second bottom, is a mirror image.

There is no way either of these clubs will permit a "sporting merit" decision that is not their favour. Hence litigation, more than you can shake a stick at. I think at that point you might find UEFA quite passive in allowing the respective leagues the ability to decide their own outcomes.

[lurganblue]

Yeah a void season seems to be off the table at the minute but then last week it was neutral venues and f*ck the bottom six clubs who are against it.  Turns out more than 12 clubs were against it and it now probably isn't going to happen.  The situation is fluid to say the least.

I personally would be waiting until it is safe to restart the games behind closed doors no matter how that impacts upon next season's start date.  I doubt all clubs, owners, sponsors, and the FA would be in agreement with that though for financial reasons.

[Armamike]

Listen. You may outwardly propel that this season must finish. That is, I suppose what supporters must do. But if inwardly you can convince yourself that it's feasible for competitors to accept the legitimacy of a competition, when proposing changes to its core structures with 25% of that competition still remaining, then you might as well convince yourself that Santa Claus exists.

But voiding the season is equally as big a change to the core structure. I think everyone accepts that current circumstances are unprecedented and that there will have to be a change from the norm. That's a given. No matter what's decided be it void the season, decided on PPG, wait until we can finish it out etc, someone's going to question the legitimacy of the decision.

The least litigious route through this I would expect is to void the season entirely, citing reasons beyond the organiser's control. Award nothing. Relegate nobody. Same clubs enter Europe as did in the voided season.

Any other solution would involve changing competition regulations (lawsuits everywhere), or else extending this season into next (contractual issues and therefore lawsuits everywhere, not just with players, but media, sponsors, rent, league fees, etc, etc).

Not so sure about the threat of lawsuits. There aren't any in Germany as far as I'm aware.

[Armamike]

Voiding was taken off the menu weeks ago. It's not going to happen. At least not in the sense that people understand of voiding a season where we pretend the season never happened and results are expunged. Both UEFA and the FA have said if seasons cannot be completed on the field of play then they must be decided on sporting merit whether it's by PPG or weighted PPG to decide placings. It's up to the individual leagues to decide on champions and relegation.

Yet we still have idiots calling for it...

Let's wait and see Laois Lad, before the name calling.

The term "sporting merit" is extraordinarily judicious.

Leave aside your beloved Liverpool for a second, and assuming City's punishment stands.

Call the season now and Sheffield United would not qualify for the CL, as they're in 7th. Call it on points per game and they don't make it either, missing out on 5th spot by a thread. But here's the thing, they've played one less game than Man Utd, and a win in that game would give them more points and more points per game. It would put them in the Champions League.

There is no "sporting merit" solution there.

Aston Villa's situation, currently in second bottom, is a mirror image.

There is no way either of these clubs will permit a "sporting merit" decision that is not their favour. Hence litigation, more than you can shake a stick at. I think at that point you might find UEFA quite passive in allowing the respective leagues the ability to decide their own outcomes.

Can 3 or 4 clubs thwart a decision though?  As long as a majority of 14 back the decision, does that not bind all clubs to the decision? 

[thewobbler]

It's a good point about Germany Armamike, but the crucial difference is that the Bundesliga's clubs are committed to finishing their season with home and away fixtures, as is Bundes 2. If England's club can't do likewise, then it's the no-relegation OR relegation-by-sporting-merit scenario, which is much more open to legal intervention.


Also I don't think it's just 2-3 clubs affected.

The CL purse is too bountiful for any of Arsenal, Spurs, Sheff Utd or Wolves to wave it off into the sunset, and they have nothing to lose in mounting a challenge. The effects of relegation are too severe for Bournemouth, Villa or Norwich to willingly take one for the team, and they have everything to gain from mounting a challenge.

That's 35% of the teams. It wouldn't  take much effort to disrupt any plans with that level of support.

[supersub]

To be honest we are hearing what certain people want us to hear. Each club will have representatives at the meetings so if the games are rescheduled, which it seems likely they will be, then it's going to be on the basis of a consensus with all the clubs or the majority at least. The reality is no one knows what is being discussed and apart from sound bites from the likes of Sterling, Aguero and Rose(whom I just think wants to seem relevant as he has become irrelevant in recent seasons) there is actually very little coming out from players.

Precisely.

Listen. You may outwardly propel that this season must finish. That is, I suppose what supporters must do. But if inwardly you can convince yourself that it's feasible for competitors to accept the legitimacy of a competition, when proposing changes to its core structures with 25% of that competition still remaining, then you might as well convince yourself that Santa Claus exists.

As you well know it isn't just as black and white as that. Legitimacy comes under many guises while these circumstances are present. The very best and probably the most fair thing to do, would be to put the league on hold indefinitely until it is 100% safe to resume, i.e proven treatment for the virus. Don't void, and don't worry about 20/21 season. Start where it left off and be that March 21 so be it. Unfortunately that is not going to happen, so there have to be changes or alterations to the norm. There is not any other arrangement which would represent the current structure as we know it.