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I have to say lads that this board has been very unbalanced in its debating of the arguments in these GPA threads. reproducing only the parts of the star's article that suit your agenda is typical. there were several newspaper articles reproduced here for debate over the last few weeks but not a word about two excellent pieces by former intercounty players aidan o'rourke and benny tierney last weekend. heaven forbid anyone would would make a calm and sensible case for the GPA's ams. couldn't have that up for discussion or it'd get i the way of the assumptions, hysteria and downright irrelevent stuff that passes for fact on this board recently.

How many pilloried the GPA when the fought for among many other things a set mileage allowance, boots for players, training gear, food after training, etc.?

The GPA have had the foresight to negotiate with the government for provision in the budget for taxpayer's money to be allocated for a grant scheme for intercounty players. Elitest as that may seem, It is the interounty footballer who comes under the most time & effort pressure, scrutiny and criticism for volunteering to represent their county. they are also the same group who the GAA have elevated to elite status through subjection to olympic standard drug testing procedures. if the government are willing to acknowldge this by extending a fraction of the grant aid they afford boxing, judo, bowls, etc., then surely everyone can be accomodated? the money amounts to two mortgage paymets a year out of 12. hardly a kng's ransom.

The GAA have long ago acknowledged that Government subsidising would not contravene any rules covering the amateur status within our association and there simply remains administrative procedures to work out. the perception of where the money comes from is not the GAA 's issue as has been mooted here.

Pay for play is not a GPA objective. members voted overwhelmingly that they would not suport any such move last year at our EGM and badly researched or hysterical claims to the contrary. any move in that direction would need a 2/3 majority vote and would never, in my opinion, even make the floor for debate.

If there are genuine reasons to block minimal government grants which the GAA themselves don't believe contravene amateur status then by all means they need to be aired but to not educate yourself of the facts, to make wild assumptions about the character of intercounty players as a whole or to simply begrudge those that give us some of the best entertainment money can buy are not fair reasons.

EDIT:

There are plenty of posters who have supported the GPA on this board, so their views will need to be included in any "forum response" for it to be fair and representative.

Are we talking facts here or merely speculation?

facts unfortunately

I'd like to wish Peter McDonnell the very best with his new appointment.

Obviously the county board have been less than forthcoming with their reasons and the process has been underhand to say the least. McDonnell was the county board's choice many weeks ago and the time taken was an attempt to force grimley into declaring for his cavan job. having called their bluff, the county board had to work overtime justify overlooking Grimley. The final and most disappointing act was to deny the clubs their say on the matter, which was the point of last night's meeting.

John rafferty withdrew the day after the interviews. John had been well informed before hand of the county board's intention to install mcdonnell and the work already don to this end. he turned up to the interview and read a prepared statement, which took the county board apartment for their amateurish methods and their underhand dealings. he answered no questions.

none of these tip of the iceberg issues are the fault of peter mcdonnell, who i'm sure will do a good job for armagh.

I'm sure noone will doubt the great things that Joe has done for Armagh in the early stages of his management. His biggest contribution was to have the vision to create the conditions for a very talented group of players to flourish. McAlinden, for all his strengths, inhibited a lot of players and his regimented approach didn't allow the team to reach its potential. Joe provided the team with state of the art facilities, exposed them to new training approaches and brought Grimley in to fine tune the team's approach and persona.

Things probably started to go wrong in 2004 when the rest of the country caught up tactics wise and Armagh were unwilling to adapt. There would have been a feeling that the approach needed to change to enable the team to develop further but it was resisted on an ongoing basis.

Joe will always be remembered for bringing the holy grail and that is how it should be.

To be competitive, any team needs to have their best players on the park. Sligo are a good example this year. This nonsense of cutting 5 or 6 of your best players to "give youth a chance" is utterly misguided. if the the younger players are good enough, they will force their way onto the team. Armagh's best players in Ballyboffey? McNulty, Mallon, McKeever, McGeeney, McGrane and Marsden. Best Players in Clones? McNulty, McGeeney & O'Rourke. i don't care what their ages are.

The wort possible thing to do with a group of young players is throw them in together and allow them to sink into the habit of losing. young players need to earn their place on the squad through the quality of their football and their application to the work required to make it. then they need to tae county football by the scruff of the neck and demand to be on the team through consistent peformance against county footballers. that is how top quality intercounty footballers emerge.

Armagh have already had their fingers burned by giving soft passage first onto the panel and then onto the team to players who have not maybe could never earn it in their own right. McKeever is a perfect example. Not a massively talented footballer from an unfashionable club. he earned his place on the senior panl through fantastic performances with the county u21s, where he also earned the captaincy amongst a host of talented footballers. he came onto the senior panel the rawest of rough diamonds and faced down obstruction and criticism from management. he worked meticulously on his game and two years later became a fixture on the team and probably Armagh's best all round defender.

this has not been the route of every player onto the team. by the same token, other younger players have wilted at the prospect of having to earn their promotion and drifted into mediocrity after losing confidence. those players probably will never have the mental fortitude to be top drawer county footballers. talent is all well and good but at that level, everyone has talent. 90% of the game now is in each players head.

There's no doubt that looking at the draw from a long way out, and given Armagh's recent history, the back door offered the most realistic route to the all ireland semis.

The performance in Ballyboffey rather than the result should give everyone involved the reassurance needed, and maybe that was necessary, that Armagh can still beat anyone in the championship if they play.

It's not true that the armagh team has been named to the players but its easy enough to work out.

Hearty
Mallon
McNulty
Moriarty
kernan
McGeeney
McKeever
McGrane
Toner
o'rourke
S Kernan
McKeever
McDonnell
Marsden
McConville

With the obvious exception, the personnel may be as strong as whats currently available for selection.

If clarke doesn't start, mcconville will.

Likely Armagh Team Vs Donegal

Hearty
Mallon
McNulty
Moriarty
kernan
McGeeney
McKeever
McGrane
Toner
o'rourke
S Kernan
McKeever
McDonnell
Clarke
Marsden

Difficult question to answer. jp donnelly has probably the greatest leg strength of anyone on the armagh panel.

Certainly strength and conditioning training has progressed very quickly over the past 15 years and an athlete is capable of greatly increasing his speed and power from his body's natural capacities. i think the extra torque which knee joints can be subjected to as a result may be the biggest reason for the increase in cruciate injuries. unfortunately you cannot increase the strength of your knee ligaments in the gym.

Only one of armagh's 4 cruciate victims wore blades, and not even all the time.

Morale is low in the Armagh camp

What are you basing this on?


Down seem to have put their experimentation behind them and will be all out to take an armagh scalp. in saying that, stronger down teams have had better chances to win against weaker armagh teams in the last two years but haven't been good enough.

Loughran is back on the panel and will soon be available again. he's also in good nick so should be pushing hard. it's unfair to judge the application or commitment of any player who is injured and unable to make his own statement on the field.

Granted morale is very low at the moment for a number of off field reasons but joe has a good habit of picking things up for the championship. marsden's return is good and there are moves afoot to get the best possible panel together.

form is temporary