Dessie Has a Go at Us in The Star!!!

[Tyrones own]

 Ah we'll not be stooping to Dessie's level now CS

[Puckoon]

Got hold of a copy of the Star (didn't buy it), it's a two-page special! Too long to type out on it's own but I'll print out some quotes from Dessie...

"That sort of website chatroom mentality bugs the shit out of me, to be honest, I think that they're a shower of jealous f***s that go on it. I know some of the lads read it and it can be very virriolic. One thing that I would put to any of these anonymous f***ers that go on is to challenge them to come and meet me and have it out face to face. Come and meet Kieran McGeeney or Donal Og Cusack and put the arguements that they put on these websites and let us respond to them in a proper forum. They never do that. They don't want to engage like that."

"We are painted as the Antichrist at times but if I felt it was that way, I wouldn't be part of it."

"Some will always disagree with the fact that there's an independet association representing players because they beileve its elitest. But every sport needs an elite component. That drives revenue and drives participation numbers. Because if you don't have that shop window, what do you have?"

I might print out some other stuff later, but swipe a copy later from somewhere and look at pages 26/27/

Whats his opinion on say John McEntee? Dessie letting himself down a bagful here - not that he has far to fall!

[TORGAEL]

I think Dessie is the perfect example of someone letting power go to their heads. Imagine living in his world where no one would be able to voice a dissenting opinion.FFS !

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Obviously the fella is upset at the reality that outside his elite band the GPA's action have little support within the GAA. Well thats just tough for the GPA. Happy to help with any reply Lon Shark.

And as for the comment about not being willing to discuss these things with players themselves, if any intercounty player saw fit to talk about the issue with me I'd be more than happy to stand over my view that the GPA wished to see a professional GAA scene and that such a scenario would do irreparable damage to the Association.

[Barney]

Fair play Lone Shark.

The GPA have had a solo run in the media. The Government are ducking for cover - the money isn't there and won't be. The GAA are afraid of their lives.

Everybody appreciates the efforts made by players but if they don't want to play for their county there will be fifteen men happy to pull on even the Roscommon jersey. Money has ruined sport - just look at the death knell for international football over the last few years. We have something special that should be protected.

[Orchard Warrior]

I have to say lads that this board has been very unbalanced in its debating of the arguments in these GPA threads. reproducing only the parts of the star's article that suit your agenda is typical. there were several newspaper articles reproduced here for debate over the last few weeks but not a word about two excellent pieces by former intercounty players aidan o'rourke and benny tierney last weekend. heaven forbid anyone would would make a calm and sensible case for the GPA's ams. couldn't have that up for discussion or it'd get i the way of the assumptions, hysteria and downright irrelevent stuff that passes for fact on this board recently.

How many pilloried the GPA when the fought for among many other things a set mileage allowance, boots for players, training gear, food after training, etc.?

The GPA have had the foresight to negotiate with the government for provision in the budget for taxpayer's money to be allocated for a grant scheme for intercounty players. Elitest as that may seem, It is the interounty footballer who comes under the most time & effort pressure, scrutiny and criticism for volunteering to represent their county. they are also the same group who the GAA have elevated to elite status through subjection to olympic standard drug testing procedures. if the government are willing to acknowldge this by extending a fraction of the grant aid they afford boxing, judo, bowls, etc., then surely everyone can be accomodated? the money amounts to two mortgage paymets a year out of 12. hardly a kng's ransom.

The GAA have long ago acknowledged that Government subsidising would not contravene any rules covering the amateur status within our association and there simply remains administrative procedures to work out. the perception of where the money comes from is not the GAA 's issue as has been mooted here.

Pay for play is not a GPA objective. members voted overwhelmingly that they would not suport any such move last year at our EGM and badly researched or hysterical claims to the contrary. any move in that direction would need a 2/3 majority vote and would never, in my opinion, even make the floor for debate.

If there are genuine reasons to block minimal government grants which the GAA themselves don't believe contravene amateur status then by all means they need to be aired but to not educate yourself of the facts, to make wild assumptions about the character of intercounty players as a whole or to simply begrudge those that give us some of the best entertainment money can buy are not fair reasons.

EDIT:

There are plenty of posters who have supported the GPA on this board, so their views will need to be included in any "forum response" for it to be fair and representative.

[Cloc Mor]

Go for it Lone Star, I'm totally behind you.  I made a post last week about the work clubmen do, which was laughed at by some people.  These are the type of people we have to support. 

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Pay for play is not a GPA objective.

I genuinely wish I could believe but I simply don't. Dessie knows he can't say it (though Donal Óg has) but \i firmly believe that some form of play for play  will eventually be part of the GPA's agenda. The grants are just the thin end of the wedge

[darbyo]

I genuinely wish I could believe but I simply don't. Dessie knows he can't say it (though Donal Óg has) but \i firmly believe that some form of play for play  will eventually be part of the GPA's agenda. The grants are just the thin end of the wedge

This seems to be the attitude of many on here and makes rational, reasoned debate difficult if not impossible. No-one seems to be willing to give the GPA the benefit of the doubt. I've argued (as have some others) on another thread that they are not after pay for play. Why?, because they have said so and because anyone with even a basic knowledge of economic realities would accept it is a non-runner. Of course some argue that Donal Og let the mask slip in an article 2 years ago but could it be that it was a slip of a tounge rather than a slip of a mask? Not to some on here, if Dessie says they don't want professionalism he is lying if Donal Og says they do he is letting slip the whole master plan.

[J70]

I have to say lads that this board has been very unbalanced in its debating of the arguments in these GPA threads. reproducing only the parts of the star's article that suit your agenda is typical. there were several newspaper articles reproduced here for debate over the last few weeks but not a word about two excellent pieces by former intercounty players aidan o'rourke and benny tierney last weekend. heaven forbid anyone would would make a calm and sensible case for the GPA's ams. couldn't have that up for discussion or it'd get i the way of the assumptions, hysteria and downright irrelevent stuff that passes for fact on this board recently.

How many pilloried the GPA when the fought for among many other things a set mileage allowance, boots for players, training gear, food after training, etc.?

The GPA have had the foresight to negotiate with the government for provision in the budget for taxpayer's money to be allocated for a grant scheme for intercounty players. Elitest as that may seem, It is the interounty footballer who comes under the most time & effort pressure, scrutiny and criticism for volunteering to represent their county. they are also the same group who the GAA have elevated to elite status through subjection to olympic standard drug testing procedures. if the government are willing to acknowldge this by extending a fraction of the grant aid they afford boxing, judo, bowls, etc., then surely everyone can be accomodated? the money amounts to two mortgage paymets a year out of 12. hardly a kng's ransom.

The GAA have long ago acknowledged that Government subsidising would not contravene any rules covering the amateur status within our association and there simply remains administrative procedures to work out. the perception of where the money comes from is not the GAA 's issue as has been mooted here.

Pay for play is not a GPA objective. members voted overwhelmingly that they would not suport any such move last year at our EGM and badly researched or hysterical claims to the contrary. any move in that direction would need a 2/3 majority vote and would never, in my opinion, even make the floor for debate.

If there are genuine reasons to block minimal government grants which the GAA themselves don't believe contravene amateur status then by all means they need to be aired but to not educate yourself of the facts, to make wild assumptions about the character of intercounty players as a whole or to simply begrudge those that give us some of the best entertainment money can buy are not fair reasons.

EDIT:

There are plenty of posters who have supported the GPA on this board, so their views will need to be included in any "forum response" for it to be fair and representative.

Well said.

[Muzz]

Orchard Warrior such dribble...You seem to forget most gaels in this country would pay to pull on their county jersey and represent their county!!!  There was no complaining about boots etc. years ago from footballers so why the sudden change now.  As like most people has said "paid to play is at the forefront of Dessie's mind, nowhere near the back where you seem to think it is.

[ONeill]

Horribly crude language from the GPA Chairman. If that organisation wants to progress and attempt to win over individuals in important places as well as the general public, they need to replace Dessie. He continues to harm their image.

[Lone Shark]

The board is unbalanced because the weight of public opinion among GAA members is unbalanced. This board merely reflects the attitudes among GAA members in general. Where I and some other members of this board have real issues with are all the issues that Dessie and his cohort do not address, for the simple reason that they have no answer. I speak of issues like the following:


(1) Will the GPA assure the GAA membership that they have no interest in ever taking any money off the GAA other than legitimately incurred expenses? What form of reassurances will they give that when the Government pulls away this grant - as happens with all such subsidies eventually - that they will not ask the GAA to make up the shortfall?

(2) Why, when the GPA was given the great privilege of a seat on Central Council in order to represent player viewpoints on key issues, does their representative - i.e. Dessie - have the worst attendance record of any member of that council, despite arguably living closer to Croke Park than any other member? Why if he cannot make the attendance does he not resign his position and let someone else take over?

(3) The GPA is proposing a grant system whereby the level of the grant paid is contingent on progression. Should Wexford's Mattie Forde choose to transfer to Kerry in order to secure a greater likelihood of a larger grant, as EU law would dictate that he must be allowed, how can the GPA ensure us that this will not happen? Ditto the 31st best hurler in Kilkenny or Tipperary moving to Wicklow for the same reasons? Once money is involved no GAA rule can prevent this - so what is the GPA's solution, other than "it probably won't happen". I apologise for any impunity on the character of Mattie Forde there, I fully believe he'd have no interest in that, and would have moved by now if he was interested in playing for anyone bar Wexford. He was merely the obvious example.  

(4) Where does the GPA stand on equivalent grants for ladies football and camogie teams? Either they support them, in which case the current amount of grant aid is grossly inadequate, or else they don't, in which case I'd be intrigued to know how they possibly could justify that in an age of equality?  

(5) If the players are the draw, how does that explain why the most talented teams in the land (i.e. Kerry and Kilkenny) draw some of the lowest attendances, while infinitely less successful teams like Wexford hurlers and Kildare footballers draw on similar population bases but bring much bigger support? Why are the interprovincial series, a showcase of the best talent in the land, so poorly followed if the quality of the play is what matters? Ditto, why did this years Connacht final have a much bigger attendance than it's Munster equivalent, despite one having no All Stars from 2006 or 2007, and the other having 12 on display?

(6) Why should the taxpayer be asked to fund any player to play intercounty GAA when in every county there are hundreds of people for whom taking that man's place would be the fulfilment of a lifetime ambition?    

(7) If Intercounty players are so stretched, why has not one GPA official come out with a proposal to reduce the demands on intercounty players? Surely if excessive demands in an amateur game are the issue, then reducing those demands is the first step?

( How can the strike be considered properly mandated when there is no proper record of who is eligible to vote, who did so, no paper trail and various anomolies across the land of intercounty players not being asked (I know of three) and long-retired players getting ballots instead? If voting was done this way in sub-saharan Africa we'd be talking about rigged elections.

(9) Why, when the GAA has agreed to be part of the process but the Government refuses to confirm if the money is indeed available or refuses to administer it in a reasonable fashion (i.e. not handing out a big infrastructure grant and telling the GAA to take €5m out of it wherever they see fit) why then is the strike against the GAA and not against the Government?


Orchard Warrior, when the GPA can answer these questions, or when they even attempt to do so rather than hiding, then we can progress. But these are all huge issues for the GAA right now, and just because some intercounty players would rather bury their head in the sand and not think of these things, the general membership has to.

On a couple of other issues....

How many pilloried the GPA when the fought for among many other things a set mileage allowance, boots for players, training gear, food after training, etc.?

Very few. Certainly none of those most ardently against the GPA now would have been in anything but total support back then.

the money amounts to two mortgage paymets a year out of 12. hardly a kng's ransom.

Nobody's saying that it is - the principle is being debated here, and after that it's all just about numbers. I'm not saying that the GPA is thinking this way, but unquestionably this is the approach that a long term strategist would take. If the GAA is agreeable to amount X, they can hardly fight the point in a few years when the GPA wants 2X to allow for a cost of living increase.

 

[darbyo]

Orchard Warrior such dribble...You seem to forget most gaels in this country would pay to pull on their county jersey and represent their county!!!  There was no complaining about boots etc. years ago from footballers so why the sudden change now.  As like most people has said "paid to play is at the forefront of Dessie's mind, nowhere near the back where you seem to think it is.

Give me patience, you are either very young or not very well informed, I'd say both.

Whatever the personal motives of the chairman in maybe letting masks slip, its quite another thing for the chief executive to engage in sledgehammer diplomacy. I'm certainly not jealous of Dessie "Let's be 'aving ya" Farrell, a man himself who seems to be from his comments incapable of rational reasoned debate.

Yep, I agree with you, I argue the GPA side of the argument here on a consistent basis but when the chairman of the organization comes out with that type of stuff you would wonder.

I've also just noticed...


Quote
Pay for play is not a GPA objective. members voted overwhelmingly that they would not suport any such move last year at our EGM and badly researched or hysterical claims to the contrary. any move in that direction would need a 2/3 majority vote and would never, in my opinion, even make the floor for debate.
Have we an actual GPA mamber here?

I noticed that too, but OW made his points in a well argued rational manner, which is what we want off people irrespective of whether you agree with them or not.

[behind the wire]

fair play to you Lone Shark, you are doing a good job of portraying the views of ordinary gaa members! keep er lit lad

if dessie wants us to meet him thats not a problem, my email address is there for all to see, just email me anytime dessie.

hopefully Lone shark will be afforded a right to reply in the Star so as he can tell Arthur Scargill......i mean Dessie Farrell a few home truths.