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WHat they and everyone else knows is that their real achievement has been the acceptance of the pay for play principle.

That's only your opinion Hardy not a fact, the government are paying a grant, the GPA have accepted that the GAA have no responsibility to pay this in the event of the govt. stopping the grant. And if the GAA were to ever pay players directly for playing then a rule change would be required. Professionalism, where the GAA pay it's players, can only occur if the GAA votes for it.

From this point forward, if this goes ahead, the argument is no longer about whether players can get paid. It's just about how much.

No, it's about who pays them.

Well then it should be put on the clar and dealt with properly, rather than the underhand matter that it is at present. Roll on congress, I believe there are quite a few counties with motions to put an end to the grants before they begin.

I'd have no problem with that but I hope it isn't full of scaremongering arguments based on 'thin edge of the wedge prophecies'. If the debate is reasoned and not emotional and if people vote on what is best for the GAA and not based on their opinion of the GPA then great, but I'd fear that cries of imminent destruction would appeal to the natural conservatism of many GAA 'committee men', not to mention the opportunity to put the GPA back in their box.

Zulu - -can't agree with you - not all clubs have the same amount of resources at their disposal - eg somewhere in this board it was said that a certain Building Suppliers firm will be paying for an outside manager this year - not all clubs have that resource available to them -

Same thing when it comes to counties - how many counties have the same resources as Dublin ? Tyrone ?

Would Leitrim be able to compete ? Never.

I agree 100% Orangeman that is why I think it is great that a Leitrim hurler is getting some few bob and not just the big players in the big counties. Now maybe some wealthy businessmen in certain counties are willing to pay some players to devote themselves to full time training but it is in that system that real elitism exists not in this grant scheme.

This all been done before but many on here claimed they were against these grants on the basis they were elitist, pay for play and against the rules. Considering the grants are actually for all IC players, not from GAA coffers and above board I find it incredible that none of the anti-grant supporters here seem willing to accept that they might have initially over reacted.
                     The argument seems to be if it's under the table payments, while it's not ok we won't kick up a fuss, however above board payments by the govt. are not on because they are elitist, pay for play, against the rules, and the dreaded thin edge of the wedge.

Have to agree with you there Hardy - individuals can't be classed as an organisation and be compared to the government.

Surely groups of GAA members paying players to play is closer to a professional GAA than the govt. giving them grants.

And it amazes me that otherwise sane, intelligent, articulate people don't see the contradiction in declaring the death of the association as we know it when the government is paying a grant while members of the association have been paying larger amounts to some players and managers for years.

The Cork county board played politics with their IC teams and they underestimated the players resolve. This is a mess of their own making, though I think the players could have initially taken a less militant stance also. Nevertheless the players are correct to demand the best possible back room support and the motivation for the county boards action has to be questioned. They then compound their initial mistake by appointing a football management team that no-one in Cork would regard as acceptable. Whatever about the hurlers the footballers ambitions for 08 have been seriously damaged.

I think the best way to play him is more or less as the Liam Hoaran article suggested. Try stay between ball and man at an angle such that you can still see the man, with the corner back closest to Donaghy closing in (i.e. the CB to Donaghy's left if the ball is coming from the right) to add support should he win it cleanly. If the ball is floated across the other CB and the centre back should be making there way into the square to pressurize Donaghy and pick up forwards waiting for the break

Work has definately begun but it is still in the 'destruction' phase as far as I know.

Bush has lucky escape when assassin's arrow misses all vital organs.

I'm not a Mayo man but I'd be inclined to leave the older lads off the panel if I were John O'Mahoney. Mayo won't win the AI next year with or without these guys on the panel, so why keep them there at all? Yes, their experience would be a bonus but does a strong personality and natural leader like D. Brady just stunt the development of other leaders amongst the panel? Does a talent like Ciaran Mac prevent others taking responsibility on the field?                        
                                          Someone said that these guys are still amongst the standout performers on the Mayo club scene, but I watched the Connact club championship and much of the ball David Brady won was soft ball, i.e. others won it, he demanded a pass and got it. This is often what happens with older players they get on a lot of ball not so much by their footballing abilities but by their stature within the team and some are fooled into thinking they still have what it takes by this. With the exception of MacDonald I think all the others would be exposed at IC championship level. Do you need all 4 of them for their experience? With John O'Mahoney at the helm I don't think you do, I'd probably hold on to MacDonald and one other, which would be based on personality rather than footballing ability.

Yeah they do, there is the McGrath Cup in Munster which Kerry compete in. They then go on and compete in the same National league as the rest of the country, so they play as many games as most counties (more than most) prior to the start of the championship. From there on it's a bit different alright, but as they tend to be at the business end of every competition they probably play more football than anyone else in any given year.

In my humble opinion its the one that states that a free has to be taken from exactly where the foul was committed.Mr Kenneevy(you all know who I mean even if I cant spell) is obsessed with it.
Surely if a player is fouled in his own half its lunacy to slow the game up so that a player has to walk back 5 yards to take a free?

Agree totally and what's more a free taker in a scoring position will often actually take the free from 3-4 yards closer to goal, which the refs turn a blind eye to.

Check out this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek1iIOTsiRo

Childish, more of this boogeyman stuff that is so common amongst anti-grant posters. If we face and prepare for the future we have no need to fear it.

I know this might sound like total pie in the sky at this point, but I think these European rules will come into play in a big way in the next decade. Players will start to explore them in order to make themselves available for a coutny other than that of their birth or residence and they will use the grant system as a tool in this argument, by saying that the GAA was restricting the freedom of movement of labour.

Any player who wants to, can leave his club or county now, Thomas Walsh being the most recent case. And some players in the past could have done so for financial gain. Unless the money reaches significant levels, in which case the GAA will have to fund it and not the Govt., then there is little prospect of players 'transferring' to other counties. Though we should avoid turning this into another 'grant/gpa' thread.