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Movig forward, the GAA's immediate task should be to strengthen this

Agreed.


I also think clear time restrictions on county and club training should be enforced, thus the 'need' for players to be recompensed for their time would not be as 'acute' as it is now. An added benefit might be a re-focussing of the games (at inter county level) on skill rather than fitness.

Point of order mr chairman... not interested in this debate as its irrelevent but on the above point, travel expenses are a vehicle allowance only. fuel and wear & tear. you cannot pay administrators, players or managers for their time and get away with it.

Does your boss pay you for the time it takes you to drive into and out of work every day?

GAA  = 123 years not out !!!

GAA = 123 years of amateur sportsmen.... 0 years of semi-professional sportsmen.



I hope we reach 246 years stronger than ever, but I fear a regression is imminent.

[and i doubt if any right thinking gaa man believes that either.]

Your doomsday scenario is based on the assumption that people are going to stop volunteering to work for their clubs en masse because of this. I don't believe for one minute that volunteer work in clubs will be affected at all and i doubt if any right thinking gaa man believes that either.

More of the arrogance, and based on comparable examples, mis-placed arrogance at that.


I am presenting evidence of this exact scenario in other sports, yet you are continually posting up your blind assumption and qualifying it with the adage that any "right thinking GAA man" would assume it as well.

That doesnt add up at all. There are plenty of people doing the same things for professional sports. I bet they aren't bothered about the players getting paid doesn't stop them getting up in the mornings volunteering.*

* By the way i am in England at the minute, where every weekend and mid week there are plenty of volunteers doing these things. The state of irish soccer is down to the fact that no-one actually gives a shite about it. If some volunteers walkaway there'll be more to take their place,

From the state of the clubs I know, I believe your assumption that more will be eager to step into the breach and perform the same tasks as well is extremely dubious.




It is not easy to get fellas to commit to training or managing a squad of youngsters even 1 night a week for 25 weeks of the year, never mind doing the job properly and doing it at least 2/3 times a week.

What if a sizable portion of them recognise they are losing out both from money and time aspects - and they should be recompensed?

Will there be a GMA? Gaelic Managers Association?

Will the government give grants to them?

Or will they get nothing and just quit. Answers on a postcard please.

Honest to god now, you really believe that?

You'd be a very poor clubman to abandon it for such an abstract reason.

In your opinion.


We've already seen county boards up in arms over the grants, we've already seen influential volunteers resign, indeed, early indications would tend to back my argument rather than yours.


Yet again, I'll ask you to consider the state of local soccer -


Q: Who maintains the vast majority of the pitches?
A: The district councils do.

Q: What state are the pitches in?
A: Shite.

Q: Are there adequate changing facilities at every pitch?
A: Not on your life.

Q: Are the leagues and cups well organised with a large pool of referees to officiate each and every match?
A: ha ha ha ha

Q: Are there proper structured youth leagues/cups, with each club/team focusing on improving their player's ability through good training techniques over a long time period?
A: Are you taking the piss?



Pretty much each and every one of the above questions relate directly to the non-playing volunteer side of our association, be they maintaining the pitch, selling raffle tickets for that new changing room or to buy a pitch, organising the leagues, or training the youth teams.


You can declare your assumptions on this board until you are blue in the face DMarsden - it won't change the FACT that local historical evidence would point towards another outcome - one that you and every other supporter of the grants refuse to accept as even possible never mind probable.

The level against the grants can be accurately guaged by the poor showing at the elk last week. That is the true barometer, 400 odd gaa men out of how many 1000,s of members...that was the height of the real depth of feeling. i think a few posters on here hardly represents the entire Gaa family. Billy were you at the ELK

So the various county boards voting against it are also irrelevant.


Actually, has any county board voted for it yet?

I would not be so worried about the number of people interested in inter county matches, as the number of people that don't want to cut the grass, fix the catch wire, sell the tickets, train the U-12s, join the county board etc etc.



Its all those little cogs (ok, some bigger than others) that the GAA rely on to run smoothly. If enough of those people become disenchanted with the whole thing, then there is a real problem.



The players are not the foundations of the GAA - its everyone else pitching in their time voluntarily to organise things around the players that is. I know on first glance that sounds stupid, but you look at all the amateur soccer leagues the length of the country, there isn't a shortage of players, but there is a shortage of good pitches, referees, changing rooms, organised youth structures within every parish etc etc etc.

Now some on here will have you believe that this is already professionalism and will quote dictionaries to prove it. But this isn't professionalism

So the dictionary is wrong?



Maybe that will be Dessie's next step - change the definition of professionalism so the IC players will think they are still 'amateur'. 

Explain this please. If not, give it a year or two and come back on here.

When you post

Anyone with Tyrone GAA at heart will not be affected, especially after the dust has settled and the red mist clears.

You are clearly implying that those leaving as a result of the grant aren't protesting for the good of the GAA or are somehow less committed to the ideals of the GAA.

Indeed, it is somewhat ironic that you are questioning the commitment of people opposed to any volunteer receiving money for their time.

Anyone with Tyrone GAA at heart will not be affected, especially after the dust has settled and the red mist clears.

I find your assumption that the grants scheme is good for the wider GAA within Tyrone as extremely arrogant and misguided.

bit of a drama queen? and the GPA aren't- you're some hyprocrite. Threatening to go on strike unless you get your way is what i'd call being  a drama queen and throwing your toys out of the pram.

sssssshhhhhhh 

A GOOD friend of mine has already been offered double his grant total if he will turn it down officially and say publicly its because he feels it's against the ethos of the GAA.

I'm sure (seeing as you seem to present yourself as the self-appointed adjudicator of post quality on here) you'll actually provide some verifiable evidence of this.

[Definition of professional:3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.]

Ok FTJC, if my head is in the sand, can you explain to me how professionalism can be foisted upon the GAA membership without their approval, and please don't point to this grant as something that went against grassroots opinion. Because there is a world of differnce between a grant of €3k from the government and the GAA paying players a living wage for playing football/hurling. If as you say this is the beginning then you must have some idea as to how it can go forward.

I know you wrote this after I posted a dictionary definition of professional.

Perhaps your memory is blurred.

Definition of professional:
3. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.

So, how exactly are IC players not going to be (semi) professional?


Again, your point regarding where things go from here - I put forward local rugby as an example, perhaps you forgot about it as well.

But if the government want to pay them great.

Do you honestly think that money comes for free? From the big money tree that is the government?


A doctors surgery, hospital beds, gardai, improved roads, more teachers... that is what is being sacrificed to pay these players....

-or-

The government just takes it out of the annual grants it gives to the GAA directly - thus the GAA would be indirectly paying the players.

His drive was crucial from 95-03 but it's such as well oiled machine now that he'll not be missed.

You assume that no other cogs will be sickened by this.