Probably deserves a thread on it's own...
Ireland: G Dempsey; A Trimble, B O'Driscoll, G D'Arcy, G Murphy; R O'Gara, E Reddan; M Horan, R Best, J Hayes, D O'Callaghan, M O'Kelly, S Easterby, D Wallace, D Leamy.
Replacements: B Jackman, T Buckley, M O'Driscoll, J Heaslip, P Stringer, P Wallace, R Kearney.
Italy: Bortolussi (Montpellier); Robertson (Viadana), Canale (Clermont Auvergne), Mi Bergamasco (Stade Francais), Canavosio (Castres); Masi (Biarritz), Travagli (Overmach Parma); Lo Cicero (Racing Metro), Ghiraldini (Calvisano), Castrogiovanni (Leicester), Dellape (Biarritz), Del Fava (Ulster), Sole (Viadana), Ma Bergamasco (Stade Francais), Parisse (Stade Francais, capt).
Replacements: Festuccia (Racing Metro), Perugini (Toulouse), Nieto (Gloucester), Reato (Rovigo), Zanni (Calvisano), Marcato (Treviso), Galon (Overmach Parma).
Scotland team: R Lamont (Sale Sharks); N Walker (Ospreys), N De Luca (Edinburgh), A Henderson (Glasgow Warriors), S Webster (Edinburgh); D Parks (Glasgow Warriors), M Blair (Edinburgh); A Jacobsen (Edinburgh), R Ford (Edinburgh), E Murray (Northampton Saints), N Hines (Perpignan), J Hamilton (Leicester Tigers), J White (Sale Sharks, captain), J Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), D Callam (Edinburgh).
Replacements: F Thomson (Glasgow Warriors), G Kerr (Edinburgh), S MacLeod (Llanelli Scarlets), K Brown (Glasgow Warriors), C Cusiter (Perpignan), C Paterson (Gloucester), H Southwell (Edinburgh).
France team: C Heymans (Toulouse); J Malzieu (Clermont-Auvergne), F Fritz (Toulouse), D Traille (Biarritz), V Clerc (Toulouse); F Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), J-B Elissalde (Toulouse); L Faure (Sale), W Servat (Toulouse), J Brugnaut (Dax), L Nallet (Castres, capt), L Jacquet (Clermont-Auvergne), F Ouedraogo (Montpellier), T Dusautoir (Toulouse), E Vermeulen (Clermont-Auvergne).
Replacements: N Mas (Perpignan), D Szarzewski (Stade Francais), A Mela (Albi), J Bonnaire (Clermont-Auvergne), M Parra (Bourgoin), D Skrela (Stade Francais), A Rougerie (Clermont-Auvergne).
Wales: Lee Byrne (Ospreys); Shane Williams (Ospreys), Sonny Parker (Ospreys), Gavin Henson (Ospreys), Mark Jones (Scarlets); James Hook (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Ospreys); Duncan Jones (Ospreys), Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Ian Gough (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys), Martyn Williams (Blues), Ryan Jones (capt, Ospreys).
Replacements: Matthew Rees (Scarlets), Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Alix Popham (Scarlets), Gareth Cooper (Gloucester), Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Tom Shanklin (Blues).
England: Iain Balshaw (Gloucester), Paul Sackey (Wasps), Mike Tindall (Gloucester), Toby Flood (Newcastle), David Strettle (Harlequins), Jonny Wilkinson (Newcastle), Andy Gomarsall (Harlequins); Andrew Sheridan (Sale), Mark Regan (Bristol), Phil Vickery (Wasps), Simon Shaw (Wasps), Steve Borthwick (Bath), James Haskell (Wasps), Lewis Moody (Leicester), Luke Narraway (Gloucester).
Subs: Lee Mears (Bath), Matt Stevens (Bath), Ben Kay (Leicester), Tom Rees (Wasps), Richard Wigglesworth (Sale), Dan Cipriani (Wasps), Lesley Vainikolo (Gloucester).
Spurious thread alert! :P
QuoteSpurious thread alert!
Shut it Boots, should you not be packing your bags and visiting Selhurst Park.....
Back to the rugby, looking through those squads and all teams except Ireland are a breath of fresh air, full of new faces and talent. Eddie doesn't realise that if stand still you go backwards...
Ireland will win on Saturday but the performance will be scrappy....
C'mon Mods, merge this thread with the 'Fantasy' thread - after all, the prospect of Ireland doing anything positive are fantasy of the highest order. ;)
The lack of build up to this years 6 Nations is strange.
Do people really have no hope for this Ireland team?
I would be dissapointed if we don't finish in the top 2!
Put this on another thread earlier, but probably more relevant here.................
After Eddie's selection for the Italy game its very hard to see much change happening for the remainder of the 6 nations campaign. I expect us to beat Italy, probably put up a decent show v a very new France in Paris, scrape past Scot and Wales at home and probably fail by a few points to Eng at Twickers(due a win against us on law of averages!) We have a summer tour to New Zealand and Australia, not ideal locations to be blooding a raft of youngsters, so it looks like it may very well be the November internationals in 10 MONTHS time before we see a sizeable introduction of young blood :-\ The likes of Jamie Heaslip must be pullin his fukin hair out.............
Havent most of the changes on the other nations been forced by injury or retirement.
From the French WC semi final team
Retired now are Ibanez, Pelous, Dominici, Betsen and Michalek (gone to SA)
Injured are De Villiers, Milloud and Jauzion
Do some of our team deserve to be retired and make way for the younger breed?
Wales are starting 13 Ospreys players against England! The Ospreys aren't exactly flying in the Magners league lying in 8th place. Very strange...
QuoteHavent most of the changes on the other nations been forced by injury or retirement.
Nope, Dominicin, Pelous and Betsen retired, Ibanez was told to retire, Freddie is just playing his rugby in SA. The door is open for a recall.
O'Sullivan is just a conservative, Ireland will not win the 6 nations.
Strange Welsh selection but I'd expect their won't be 13 Osprey players by the end of the 6 nations.
France will win the 6 nations....
Its not the worst Irish selection, so long as Jackman, Buckley and Heaslip all get 20 minutes. That will at least allow the selection to develop over the period of the 6 Nations. Though I can't believe anyone would rate MickoDrico ahead of Cullen...
I'd have no doubt that the current Irish team would beat the English team selected. But by the time Twickers comes around, there'll be a number of changes to the English, including Balshaw being dropped and the Fijian getting a start. Still Ireland are good value for the Triple Crown. And given most of the others are in some form of transition, its a great opportunity to win the championship - if we can get back to where we were a year or two ago
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on January 30, 2008, 02:35:15 PM
The lack of build up to this years 6 Nations is strange.
Do people really have no hope for this Ireland team?
I would be dissapointed if we don't finish in the top 2!
Personally I think the lack of buildup this year is down to the fact that rugby in Croke Park isn't new anymore and Ireland were terrible in the WC.
The Fixtures
Saturday, 02 February 2008
England v Wales, 16:30
Ireland v Italy, 14:00
Sunday, 03 February 2008
Scotland v France, 15:00
Saturday, 09 February 2008
France v Ireland, 16:00
Wales v Scotland, 14:00
Sunday, 10 February 2008
Italy v England, 14:30
Saturday, 23 February 2008
France v England, 20:00
Ireland v Scotland, 17:00
Wales v Italy, 15:00
Saturday, 08 March 2008
Ireland v Wales, 13:15
Scotland v England, 15:15
Sunday, 09 March 2008
France v Italy, 15:00
Saturday, 15 March 2008
England v Ireland, 15:00
Italy v Scotland, 13:00
Wales v France, 17:00
Dinny, can you rename this thread the 2008 Six Nations Thread?
Anyone going Saturday, I had two tickets but have passed them on. My own silent protest against Eddie O'Sullivan...
I'm going to Andy Lee's fight on Saturday night. I'd like to head up to one of the other games though, so Dinny, if your silent protest continues, let me know :D
Dinny, Do you know if it possible to get 6 nations tickets online? I was thinking about the France England game on february 23rd.
Cheers.
Venter,
Think this link might help, my french is not the best I think they go on sale tomorrow.....
http://www.francebillet.com/place-spectacle/manifestation/Rugby-FRANCE---ANGLETERRE-FRAAN.htm?noeud=309391448262836676 (http://www.francebillet.com/place-spectacle/manifestation/Rugby-FRANCE---ANGLETERRE-FRAAN.htm?noeud=309391448262836676)
Wasn't planning on going but pulled 2 tickets yesterday from different sources and as I missed the 2 big games last year will tag along for a look.
Expect an Irish win but their is a lingering doubt that the failures of the World cup are still there to be resolved.
Quote from: amallon on January 30, 2008, 03:38:15 PM
Wales are starting 13 Ospreys players against England! The Ospreys aren't exactly flying in the Magners league lying in 8th place. Very strange...
couldnt believe that when i heard it. hope gatland has a plan b.. (and not like eddies plan b (run plan a again) :D)
Thanks for that Dinny, Im not sure if you have to have a french address to purchase from that site. ( it seems much cheaper than the english sites ( 120 sterling per ticket). I'll try and get some help on the french from some of my french colleagues at work.
What's the verdict on Tony Buckley? Is he capable of turning us into a team that can actually scrummage?
Tony Buckley is going to be great if he continues developing. He is a horse of a man, and has a great coach for some of the dark arts of lineout play in the Bull. His scrummaging seems to be good as well, but I don't think he is an Italian or Argentian prop either. Having said that, he definitely solidified the scrum in a few games I've seen for Munster where he came in off the bench. I think one of those was against Leinster in Cork, when the Munster scrum was in real trouble.
Dinny, as our resident GAA board rugby expert, what do you make of Niall O'Donavan? Surely, as Forwards Coach, he should have been getting a lot of flack for the way our forwards performed at the World Cup. He seemed to have escaped media criticism completely.
Our lineouts were a shambles. Why don't Ireland contest opposition throw the same way Munster did to great effect against Wasps?
Lineouts will be crucial for our success especially with the great form that O'Gara is in.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 01, 2008, 11:35:31 AM
Tony Buckley is going to be great if he continues developing. He is a horse of a man, and has a great coach for some of the dark arts of lineout play in the Bull. His scrummaging seems to be good as well, but I don't think he is an Italian or Argentian prop either. Having said that, he definitely solidified the scrum in a few games I've seen for Munster where he came in off the bench. I think one of those was against Leinster in Cork, when the Munster scrum was in real trouble.
Looks to be a great prospect alright AZ. If he can replicate what the Bull does lifting wise in the lineout and also in tackling around the fringes he'll do for me. Also looks to be alot more mobile that Hayes, seem to remember him making a break of 30 - 40 metres upfield against Clermont I think and some of the other forward struggling to stay with him for support !! The exchanges will be very physical v the Italians tomorrow as usual so I hope to God he gets 20mins at the very least if O'Sullivan introduces him.................
QuoteDinny, as our resident GAA board rugby expert, what do you make of Niall O'Donavan? Surely, as Forwards Coach, he should have been getting a lot of flack for the way our forwards performed at the World Cup. He seemed to have escaped media criticism completely.
I suppose one of the reasons he has escaped some flack is that his contract is up at the end of the Six Nations so he knows and the media knows that if the forwards don't perform he's gone. Also there seem to be a general malaise throughout the whole squad in the World Cup, it wasn't just the forwards that failed to front up it was the whole team.
A lot of the critiicism is generated purely because O'Sullivan got a 4 year contact before the World Cup and a lot of anger is in his direction and as head coach or CEO as he likes to think of himself he deserves that flack.
Niall O'Donovan would have fancied himself as successor to O'Sullivan and has a tremendous pedigree (4 titles with Shannon)but I think 7 years in the same role has caused him to become stale, rugby is an evloving game, O'Donovan has stood stiil and will be gone at the end of the Six Nations...
Ive read about the success of the irish under-age teams over the last 5 years or so, are any of those starting to feature in the current senior squad. Apparently over the same period england have gave debut to more young players than Ireland. This may have already been brought up of course,
Ireland needed that 3 pointer, but he missed it!!!! >:(
Quote from: Square Ball on February 02, 2008, 03:52:26 PM
Ireland needed that 3 pointer, but he missed it!!!! >:(
tis awful poor game
another game of missed opportunities and misplaced passes
Phew
couldnt even kick the ball dead for God sake
God help them in the Stade de France
Glad I'm not a big rugby fan. I
ts an awful shame that poor Lord Laird (bless him) has to watch such drivel.
Very poor. Heaslip has to play against France. Only for Reddan and O'Gara Ireland would have lost that.
Was there a power failure at Croke?
Very hard to watch in the second half. Fair play to Italy they played well and some of their handling was excellent. I agree that Reddan and O'Garra kept us in it. Geordan Murphy tackling! I've seen it all now.
Wales have come stroming back in this last 15 mins. 19 all.
England - 19, Wales - 26
Could be a class day for results, just Donegal to go.
Go on the Welsh, what a come back
QuoteOnly for Reddan and O'Gara Ireland would have lost that
Couldn't agree more, if O'Gara had been playing for Italy we would lost and have been beaten well.
The English players just imploded. amazing to see....have to fancy Wales to win the six nations this year....
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 02, 2008, 06:44:53 PM
QuoteOnly for Reddan and O'Gara Ireland would have lost that
Couldn't agree more, if O'Gara had been playing for Italy we would lost and have been beaten well.
The English players just imploded. amazing to see....have to fancy Wales to win the six nations this year....
Wales were getting battered for 60 minutes. England really imploded there.
Ireland keeping up much of the same form as the World Cup. I actually thought they played quite well in the first 30 minutes and could have had another try or two but after that they were pretty poor. O'Sullivan has to freshen up that team because they are growing stale together. Team for next week...
Hayes
Jackman
Horan
O'Callaghan
O'Kelly
Leamy
Wallace
Heaslip
Reddan
O'Gara
O'Driscoll
Trimble
Bowe
Murphy
Dempsey
I see D'arcy broke his arm today. Will eddie move trimble into centre or will horgan be back for the next match?
Fair play to Reddan, he looks a good bit slower than Stringer but he has much more variety.
Apart from O'Gara, I think we played worse there than at the WC. The Rugby crowd are very polite, what would have to happen before they would consider a slow handclap.
Quote from: gawa316 on February 02, 2008, 08:39:19 PM
I see D'arcy broke his arm today. Will eddie move trimble into centre or will horgan be back for the next match?
Looking at Horgan in the A game on Friday night he didn't look match fit at all after coming back from his recent injury.
So expect him to be selected then. ;D
Quote from: Main Street on February 02, 2008, 09:25:29 PM
Fair play to Reddan, he looks a good bit slower than Stringer but he has much more variety.
Apart from O'Gara, I think we played worse there than at the WC. The Rugby crowd are very polite, what would have to happen before they would consider a slow handclap.
??? ??? ???
Couldn't believe what I was seeing again today... right back where we lefet off at the World Cup. First 2 mins was great with some great moves from the backs, quick thinking but just a lack of a final ball to seal the game off. Once we didn't do that the whole thing fell apart and we went back to basic errors of handling and conceding turnovers.
My biggest disappointment over the last while though has to be our lineout. We were once considered the best lineout side in the world but now it seems we can't hack it at all. It really gets to me as we see fellas like O'Callaghan, O'Connell, O'Driscoll storming their own lineouts and wrecking their opponents every year in the Heineken Cup. Why can't this be translated to the International scene?
Anyway that result saved us the wooden spoon but I don't hold out much hope for our chances of winning any more games.
QuoteIreland bring in trio for France
Jamie Heaslip and Bernard Jackman start for Ireland in Paris
Six Nations
Date: Saturday, 9 February
Kick-off: 1600 GMT
Venue: Stade de France, Paris
BBC Coverage: Live on BBC One, BBC Sport website (UK users only), Radio Ulster MW and 5 Live Sports Extra.
Ireland coach Eddie O'Sullivan has made three changes in personnel and three positional switches for Saturday's RBS Six Nations trip to France.
Bernard Jackman replaces Rory Best at hooker; Jamie Heaslip comes in at number eight and Denis Leamy moves to flanker with Simon Easterby benched.
Due to Gordon D'Arcy's injury, Andrew Trimble moves to inside centre with Robert Kearney named on the left wing.
Leicester's Geordan Murphy switches from the left to the right wing.
O'Sullivan, however, has still ignored the form of Ulster winger Tommy Bowe who produced a five-star performance with the Ireland A team against the England Saxons at Leicester last week.
Bowe has not even made the replacements with O'Sullivan gambling on the form of Shane Horgan who has recovered from injury.
Horgan, who looked a little ring-rusty at Welford Road last Friday, can be an option to play wing or centre.
Bowe still gives way to Kearney who came on as a replacement when D'Arcy left the field at Croke Park with a broken wrist.
This will be the 21-year-old Dubliner's second cap after starting in the 16-0 defeat to Argentina last summer.
Kearney has a booming left foot which will come into focus in defensive positions in the way that the now retired Denis Hickie used to operate.
606: DEBATE
Give your reaction to the Ireland team
Meanwhile, the France game is Carlow-born Jackman's first start for Ireland. The 31-year-old made his debut during Ireland's tour to Japan back in 2005 and will be winning his sixth cap.
Israeli-born Heaslip was surprisingly omitted for the opening game against Italy, but with Easterby looking jaded, the Leinsterman comes in for his fifth cap due to the tinkering of the back-row.
Heaslip, 24, made his debut in the 2006 autumn international against the Pacific Islands and his explosive running and handling could bring a new dimension to Ireland's game.
Leamy has spent most of his international life in the middle of the back-row, but has played in every position although it was as a flanker with Munster where he made his name.
With a shortage of midfield players, Trimble was always going to partner Brian O'Driscoll at centre, although he may lack the nous as an inside playmaker.
The skills and ability of Murphy allow O'Sullivan to switch the Leicester to the right wing, although many still feel that full-back is still his best attacking position.
Ireland: Dempsey; Murphy, B O'Driscoll (capt), Trimble, Kearney; O'Gara, Reddan; Horan, Jackman, Hayes, O'Callaghan, O'Kelly, Leamy, D Wallace, Heaslip.
Replacements: Best, Buckley, M O'Driscoll, Easterby, Stringer, P Wallace, Horgan.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/7227892.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/7227892.stm)
BBC first in with the News. Eddie has made a lot of the changes the critics wanted, bar bringing in Tommy Bowe and moving Murphy to full back which I thought would be unfair on Dempsey. Speaking of Bowe he must be cursing his exclusion. You can see Eddie's reasoning bringing Horgan in, covering two positions, but he is desperately short of game time, while Bowe has really won me over this year. My only gripe would be Trimble at inside centre. I think, given that we don't have an orthodox inside centre to create the room for his partner outside, maybe Brian O'Driscoll should be moved in there. We know he can play the position, even if he prefers not to, and could really increase the quality/quantity of ball moving to his outside.
That is about as radical as it gets with EOS. To be honest I didn't think he would make so many changes based on previous form and I had a horrible feeling he was going to pick Horgan in the centre. Very disappointing not to see Tommy Bowe even make the bench and Easterby should be no where near it after last weekend. I'd also swap BOD and Trimble as I think it would work better as a midfield partnership. Hard to see us getting our 3rd win in Paris in 30 odd years based on current form but at least team selection has improved our chance, however slight.
lol
Delighted to see Heaslip and Jackman in. I predict a very big game for Leamy.
I think we could well see Drico at 12, even though he'll always wear number 13.
A pity that bladdy rugby benches are so small so its been hard to accomodate Bowe. Though I have to say that I'd have Bowe ahead of Horgan, even if Horgan is deemed more versatile. Horgan is a dire centre, just like Momo Drisokko is a dire flanker (I'd have Cullen in the team and MOK on the bench), so their so-called "versatility" is irrelevant. In saying all that if Horgan is 100% fit, he is still a very useful winger, so his experience as a potential replacement v France could arguably give him the edge over Bowe. Of course the best idea would probably be to leave Paddy Wallace out, because its just a waste of space having him on the bench given Eddie will never use him unless ROG suffers a bad injury.
Bowe's imminent defection across the water to the ospreys has probably ended his international career. he's certainly in great form and a much better footballer than trimble for example. i expect that BOD will actually play at 12 but no point advertising it i suppose.
Thanks be to God that Eddie has finally changed things - Easterby and Best were dire last week
Quote from: Uladh on February 05, 2008, 03:55:14 PM
Bowe's imminent defection across the water to the ospreys has probably ended his international career. he's certainly in great form and a much better footballer than trimble for example. i expect that BOD will actually play at 12 but no point advertising it i suppose.
Tbh it's probably the other way round: because there's nothing much down for him on the international front, Bowe has probably decided he might as well go to Wales, ditto Neil Best to England. (The current shambolic state of Ulster rugby doesn't help much either, mind)
With EOS there are some players whom he is loath to drop no matter how badly they play and others he is loath to pick no matter how well they play. Stringer got away with being amongst the former for years when there were better alternatives (as we're seeing now with Reddan). Even ROG only put distance between himself and Humphries in the last couple of years, but was always preferred when Humph had a pretty compelling case. Whereas Neil Best should have been given an extended run after the Autumn 06 internationals and Easterby should have been dispensed with years ago. Horgan is another "untouchable", even when unfit, whereas Bowe never gets an even break. And I wouldn't dare to ask Geordan Murphy what he thinks of his frequent non-selection down the years.
Indeed, I would have to say that Trimble seems to be another "untouchable", in that whilst he's clearly worth his place in his natural position, EOS still picks him out of position when he deems it necessary. I just hope this isn't because he's an amiable young guy who's useful, as the "token Ulsterman", for deflecting an
additional criticsm of EOS's selectorial "idiosyncracies" :o
P.S. I'm surprised he didn't pick D'Arcy anyhow, at least on the bench. Sure it's only a broken arm... ;)
I find it increasingly difficult to listen to an Eddie O'Sullivan press conference.
That's untrue Evil Genius. Its only in the last few months that Trimble has passed out D'Arcy. The previous two years, Darce was head and shoulders better than him. I believe D'Arcy deserved his one more chance v Italy, but also I think EOS would have dropped him for this game regardless of injury, just like he dropped Easterby and Best.
Quote from: Hound on February 06, 2008, 02:53:01 PM
That's untrue Evil Genius. Its only in the last few months that Trimble has passed out D'Arcy. The previous two years, Darce was head and shoulders better than him. I believe D'Arcy deserved his one more chance v Italy, but also I think EOS would have dropped him for this game regardless of injury, just like he dropped Easterby and Best.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, as it happens. To clarify, whilst EOS claims to use selection criteria like current form, natural position or a preference for home-based players etc, I actually think he has got his favourites who can do no wrong, as opposed to other who can do no right.
A few years back, ROG was one of the former, whereas Humph was one of the latter. (I accept that ROG has upped his game this last couple of seasons whilst Humph's age has caught up on him, mind)
Similarly, Stringer was perservered with for far too long, even for unimportant matches where EOS could at least have taken a look at alternatives.
Neil Best had a storming Autumn 06, but was never given the opportunity to cement his place in the team, being subsequently being overlooked because "his form for Ulster had dipped". Yet Easterby was being picked whilst his form (for Ireland) was dire.
D'Arcy on his day is magnificent - no doubt about that - but throughout his Ireland career, his form has been very patchy.
BOD is an absolutely world class player and has mostly demonstrated that (injuries notwithstanding), too, but I am beginning to wonder about his captaincy. The team hasn't always appeared united under EOS and it should be for the captain to act as a "go-between", standing up to the Manager if need be. But whilst Keith Wood always said what had to be said, I get the feeling BOD is too close to EOS.
Geordan Murphy had been harshly treated imo. OK, he isn't always consistent, but it's hard to be if you don't feel the boss has confidence in you. And let's face it, the test of anyone in EOS's position is how he makes the most of the talent available to him. In that respect, GM is one of the most talented 3 or 4 individuals in the squad, but he hasn't been one of the best 3 or 4 players in the team.
Trimble always seems to get picked, which is fair enough when in the centre, but I don't think he has enough experience yet to play far out of position.
And although I will probably get slated by the Leinstermen for this, for all that Shane Horgan looks the part, I'd like to see his game stats for Ireland. Is it only me, or should he have a higher try count, at least against the leading countries? And I'm not at all convinced at him playing centre, either.
Anyhow, the team has underperformed for some time now, yet EOS seems content to shuffle around the same old faces such that if it weren't for injuries, he gives the impression it would be the same 15 every game, regardless of results or performances.
To be honest, if he were a soccer manager, EOS would be Sven Goren Erikkson - alright up to a point, but bottles it when he hits the big time.
QuoteAnd although I will probably get slated by the Leinstermen for this, for all that Shane Horgan looks the part, I'd like to see his game stats for Ireland. Is it only me, or should he have a higher try count, at least against the leading countries? And I'm not at all convinced at him playing centre, either.
20 tries in 58 internationals is not a bad return especially as he played a lot at inside centtre, he has scored tries against every country bar NZ include 3 against England in 5 appearances, 3 against SA and 2 against Oz. He is however not an inside centre but a formidable wing when in form. And that is the crux he is not in form and hasn't been all season. It's quite ridiculous to see him and Easterby on the bench.
EG is right Eddie has his favourites and the SGE analogy is spot on....
What odds after France hammer Ireland, they have picked a more experienced team, that Heaslip, Jackman and Kearney all get cast aside. Can't believe he selected Murphy after saying during the WC that Geordan doesn't play well against the French ::)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on February 06, 2008, 04:52:12 PM
QuoteAnd although I will probably get slated by the Leinstermen for this, for all that Shane Horgan looks the part, I'd like to see his game stats for Ireland. Is it only me, or should he have a higher try count, at least against the leading countries? And I'm not at all convinced at him playing centre, either.
20 tries in 58 internationals is not a bad return especially as he played a lot at inside centtre, he has scored tries against every country bar NZ include 3 against England in 5 appearances, 3 against SA and 2 against Oz. He is however not an inside centre but a formidable wing when in form. And that is the crux he is not in form and hasn't been all season. It's quite ridiculous to see him and Easterby on the bench.
EG is right Eddie has his favourites and the SGE analogy is spot on....
What odds after France hammer Ireland, they have picked a more experienced team, that Heaslip, Jackman and Kearney all get cast aside. Can't believe he selected Murphy after saying during the WC that Geordan doesn't play well against the French ::)
Eddie is spinning his wheels frantically now. He's selecting people based on media pressure, albeit the ones that should have been selected anyway. He'll go ultra conservative if France go to town, and he'll bring back in Easterby and Best. He;ll pick Horgan on the wing, and drop Murphy.
He's like a blind man in an unfamiliar room. Thrashing his arms around trying to find a way out. The sad thing is that it was all so avoidable.
Flannery got suspension cut in half so will be available to play last 3 games. Puts pressure on jackman to cement his place and I hop it doesn't affect his game.
Even the French anthem died a death
Dammit, Setanta wouldnt load in time for Irelands Call.
Jaysis he ran thru us like a hot knife through butter ...Its not looking good already
f**k. France get it from nothing!!
Shut up about Jonny Bloody Wilkinson! >:(
Wake up Ireland!!! >:(
How can these lads be so good for Munster/Leinster and shite for Ireland
the word rout springs to mind if they dont get a grip of themselves, or the French for that matter
Quote from: Square Ball on February 09, 2008, 04:24:19 PM
the word rout springs to mind if they dont get a grip of themselves, or the French for that matter
That is exactly what we are looking at.
the comeback is on!! come on lads
Typical O'Gara
Another one of those famous moral victories that we have become accustomed to while following Irish teams
at least it is better than what you are used to with liverpool ;D
Quote from: whyarerefssobad on February 09, 2008, 05:58:58 PM
at least it is better than what you are used to with liverpool ;D
Shut the f**k up you fool,why bring Liverpool into a thread about rugby
maybe they should take up rugby ;)
better second half, hope we can bring that to scotland next week
20 minutes of half decent play and a French team with it's foot off the gas and all is well . For f**k sake people need to look at this game as a whole. Ireland where shite and France fucked up their front row letting Ireland back into it
Ireland were bad but how bad was the RTE commentary? Who was that, Nugent? Couldn't tell us the names of the men on the ball, didn't know what the referee was up to, didn't know the French replacements. Switched over to BBC only to be told that David Trimble had left the House of Lords to become Irish centre. Thank God for Jim Neely on Radio Uladh.
When do we hear the "Eddie must go" chat?
Quote from: Gnevin on February 09, 2008, 06:48:17 PM
20 minutes of half decent play and a French team with it's foot off the gas and all it well . For f**k sake people need to look at this game as a whole. Ireland where shite and France fucked up their front row letting Ireland back into it
For once i agree with my west brit* friend
* Because i was being nice and agreeing with you for a change i had to balance it out by insulting you otherwise the world would have stopped spinning..
I do think this is the worst possible result from tonight the heroic defeat that Irish sports fans seem to love so much . As this has given EOS a stay of a execution.The 40 point mauling we deserved would of been best of Irish rugby in the long term
Anyone watching England-Italy. 23-19 with 5 minutes left. Brian Moore is going mental, he might have to be removed form the comentary box. England dont play 2nd halves anymore it seems.
Brian Moore has been in need of a frontal lobotomy for quite some time
QuoteWhen do we hear the "Eddie must go" chat?
Eddie must goi! Eddie must go! Being saying it the last two years and the result Saturday was a disaster in that regards.
As for the game itself, I think Gnevin hit the nail on the head, France were winning comfortable and Lievremont made a rash of changes including throwing on a just turned 19 year old scrum-half rookie and changed half his pack. For the last 20 minutes, France lacked physicality and control, it was men against boys and yet the men could still not manufacture a victory. Meanwhile France get the win and blood even more players..
Ratings
Front-row 7
Best scrummaging performance from an Irish front that I can remember for a long time. The line-out suffered and despite Jackman been excellent in the loose and tight he will carry the can even though I think Niall O'Donovan has to bear responsibility as both Italy and France seem to have cracked the Irish line-out.
2nd Row 8
That score was mainly down to DOC who was immense, he carried well and his work-rate was exceptional. O'Kelly however was a passenger and may have started his last 6 nations game.
Back-Row 8
Leamy and Heaslip and big games, to me Wallace although a good back-row player is not an International 7, his tackle count is too low and he doesn't get near the half-backs. To put it into perspective against Italy his opposite number Bergamasco made 18 tackles Wallace made 7, Saturday Dusautoir made 18 tackles I think Wallace made 6. We need a Gleeson or an O'Connor.
Half-Backs 6
Reddan's passing was poor but because he has a break he creates outside space. O'Gara poor distribution and defence but excercised good game control, that missed conversion was costly.
Centres 5
O'Driscoll seem to offer poor leadership and poor kicking, when was the last time he actually succeeded in making a breaking at 15stone he's too big. Trimble huffed and puffed and got nowhere. Good defensive partnership though.....
Back Three 5
Murphy like O'Kelly has probably started his last 6 nations game, offered nothing. Likewise Dempsey's limitations were there for all to see, anonymous. Kearney showed promise and looks like a decent prospect.
Overall we had the players to beat that French side, the game plan seem wrong, we kept trying to push things in the 1st half which led to turnovers and Frech tries. We were dominant up front and should have kept it tighter. Irelands back play (O'Sullivans responsibility) was horrendous, he got a reprieve Sunday. The Wales game in Croke Park will decide his future.......
completely agree Dinny.
I thought I was on my own in thinking that Jackman was decent enough (at least) and all I read is detrimental things in the paper about him.
DOC was outstanding and MOK was absent again, has not been the same player for a few years now (for Ireland at least, still ok for Leinster). MOD is limited but plays a harder nosed more continental style of rugby that is better for the pack.
Heaslip proved that eddie has been completely wrong to overlook him for way too long.
eddie must go!
O'Gara had a good game and is invaluable to Ireland but did anybody else notice him pull out of that 50-50 challenge towards the end of the game. Can't remember exactly when it was and it wasn't shown in the highlights. It was at a crucial stage. There was a loose ball at one point and he was closer to it than the French player who won the ball but it looked like...how can I put this nicely...he was minding himself.
As I said overall, he'd a good game but what he did was uncharacteristic of him or rugby players in general. Usually them lads have no regard for personal safety
Quote from: An Lark on February 11, 2008, 01:30:27 PM
O'Gara had a good game and is invaluable to Ireland but did anybody else notice him pull out of that 50-50 challenge towards the end of the game. Can't remember exactly when it was and it wasn't shown in the highlights. It was at a crucial stage. There was a loose ball at one point and he was closer to it than the French player who won the ball but it looked like...how can I put this nicely...he was minding himself.
As I said overall, he'd a good game but what he did was uncharacteristic of him or rugby players in general. Usually them lads have no regard for personal safety
Dunno that he was favourite, but ROG certainly paused to think, while the Frenchman went in full blast.
Stats from the game.
http://www.rbs6nations.com/MatchFactsFRAIRE09.02.08.pdf (http://www.rbs6nations.com/MatchFactsFRAIRE09.02.08.pdf)
Quote from: An Lark on February 11, 2008, 01:30:27 PM
O'Gara had a good game and is invaluable to Ireland but did anybody else notice him pull out of that 50-50 challenge towards the end of the game. Can't remember exactly when it was and it wasn't shown in the highlights. It was at a crucial stage. There was a loose ball at one point and he was closer to it than the French player who won the ball but it looked like...how can I put this nicely...he was minding himself.
As I said overall, he'd a good game but what he did was uncharacteristic of him or rugby players in general. Usually them lads have no regard for personal safety
He pulled out big time. I doubt the character sometimes of those lads. Brian O Driscoll, best centre in the world, when was that again?
Quote from: maddog on February 11, 2008, 02:49:00 PM
Quote from: An Lark on February 11, 2008, 01:30:27 PM
O'Gara had a good game and is invaluable to Ireland but did anybody else notice him pull out of that 50-50 challenge towards the end of the game. Can't remember exactly when it was and it wasn't shown in the highlights. It was at a crucial stage. There was a loose ball at one point and he was closer to it than the French player who won the ball but it looked like...how can I put this nicely...he was minding himself.
As I said overall, he'd a good game but what he did was uncharacteristic of him or rugby players in general. Usually them lads have no regard for personal safety
He pulled out big time. I doubt the character sometimes of those lads. Brian O Driscoll, best centre in the world, when was that again?
2/3 years ago few questioned it even outside of Ireland
Quote from: maddog on February 11, 2008, 02:49:00 PM
He pulled out big time. I doubt the character sometimes of those lads. Brian O Driscoll, best centre in the world, when was that again?
On what basis would you question their character?? Just because Brian O'Driscoll isnt playing well this year does not mean he has no character, he has been one of the top 2 or 3 centres in the world for the last 6 or 7 years (I think he has been the best but thats a matter of opinion). He's just about the most talented sportsman this country has ever produced and your questioning his character?? He didn't achieve this through being lazy, you won't find a centre in world rugby who works harder than Brian O'Driscoll, his workrate is unreal.
And then you have Ronan O'Gara, the sh*t he has had to put up with over the last year has been unbelievable!!! But he still never shirks his responsibility and goes out and gives it everything every time he plays. Highest points scorer in Heineken cup history, second highest points scorer in 5/6 nations history!! I'll tell you one thing, you'll miss these lads when they're gone!!!
Quote from: Stagmeister on February 11, 2008, 03:25:50 PM
Quote from: maddog on February 11, 2008, 02:49:00 PM
He pulled out big time. I doubt the character sometimes of those lads. Brian O Driscoll, best centre in the world, when was that again?
On what basis would you question their character?? Just because Brian O'Driscoll isnt playing well this year does not mean he has no character, he has been one of the top 2 or 3 centres in the world for the last 6 or 7 years (I think he has been the best but thats a matter of opinion). He's just about the most talented sportsman this country has ever produced and your questioning his character?? He didn't achieve this through being lazy, you won't find a centre in world rugby who works harder than Brian O'Driscoll, his workrate is unreal.
And then you have Ronan O'Gara, the sh*t he has had to put up with over the last year has been unbelievable!!! But he still never shirks his responsibility and goes out and gives it everything every time he plays. Highest points scorer in Heineken cup history, second highest points scorer in 5/6 nations history!! I'll tell you one thing, you'll miss these lads when they're gone!!!
100% correct
in 3/4 years time, i fear ireland will be the whipping boys of the 6 nations
i hope im 100% wrong though
Cracking move for the try - glad to see Geordan Murphy get that one right.
Sad to see Simon Best having to retire after his health scare in France, but God knows it's a lot better than something tragic happening to him at training or on the field of play.
From RTE.ie
Ireland prop Simon Best has retired from professional rugby after accepting the advice of medical experts.
Best was unexpectedly taken ill during the World Cup last autumn and was rushed to hospital in Bordeaux amid fears he had suffered a stroke.
An irregular heart rhythm was diagnosed as the source of the problem and while the Ulster front row made a rapid recovery, he has been forced to undergo constant monitoring since.
Best has not been troubled by any further episodes or suffered any long-term effects, but doctors have urged against training to the level of intensity required by a professional rugby player.
The 30-year-old said: 'It's with great sadness that I am forced to retire from the game at this stage in my career.
'However, I have no regrets and feel immensely proud and privileged to have represented both Ulster and Ireland for the past nine years.'
Best thing for him, if you'll excuse the pun. No sport is worth a life. I wonder if he can have some kind of involvement with either Ulster Rugby or Irish Rugby now.
Yeah, was just thinking what the frick is he going to do now? Is he qualified as anything else? I was just wondering are we going to start the same phenomenon as professional soccer, where professional rugby players forced out of the game have to start all over again in their mid twenties/early thirties as all they have known is the game? I'm sure this happens in countries with larger playing populations, and as we have a limited pro pool they are generally well taken care of, or qualified, given the general strata of society rugby draws it's players from. Anyway good luck to the guy, hope it all works out for him!
Its a clichéd thing to say, but Rugby players tend to be better educated, and the 'old boys network' looks after them!
That was before the Professional Era though thebandit. I doubt if too many professional rugby players are in Trinners or UCD, or even UL or UCC. When they finish playing, they'll only have the leaving cert. We are just going to see the first batch of these soon, and it will be interesting. I'd say there'll be a lot of bars or restaurants opening up.
Granted, a lot of them will have gone to the 'old school' but this is definitely going to be a new experience for them. There's no doctors, lawyers or accountants playing Rugby professionally now.
I think Felipe Contempomi is a Doctor
I know what you are saying AZ, but they would be at a bit of an andvantage to Soccer players in this regard imo. Most of the Leinster academy players would have some sort of third level education, and I know the situation is the same in Ulster.
Best has a huuuuge farm in poyntzpass which himself and the brother already manage in their spare time. its an old style absentee landlord manor with a semi palace perched up in seclusion. he'll be all right...
V Scotland Attendance 74,234
V Italy Attendance 75,387
Any idea where the missing tickets went? Will they sell out v Wales?
Have to say that Scotland were dung, against a good side Ireland were fcuked, couldn't keep the ball at all in the first half. Luckily Scotland had no idea at all going forward. Jackman had a shocker, how he stayed on so long i'll never know. I'd say that's the end for him.
Didn't see Murphy as anywhere near MOM either, I'd have Girv the swerve back for the wales game as even if he had played extra well (which he didn't) it was only Scotland.
The rest was pretty good (with the obvious caveat of the standard of the opposition) and if they get the lineout throwing sorted they should have a better than even chance v wales.
it was a sell out but i guess some people just didnt turn up for whatever reason.
Quote from: Tankie on February 26, 2008, 08:18:49 PM
it was a sell out but i guess some people just didnt turn up for whatever reason.
They were probably all for a certain county thats on the east coast in between Meath and Wicklow and with Kildare to its side
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 26, 2008, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: Tankie on February 26, 2008, 08:18:49 PM
it was a sell out but i guess some people just didnt turn up for whatever reason.
They were probably all for a certain county thats on the east coast in between Meath and Wicklow and with Kildare to its side
We would be affluent enough to piss away €70 for a ticket alrite!
Quote from: Tankie on February 26, 2008, 08:26:56 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 26, 2008, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: Tankie on February 26, 2008, 08:18:49 PM
it was a sell out but i guess some people just didnt turn up for whatever reason.
They were probably all for a certain county thats on the east coast in between Meath and Wicklow and with Kildare to its side
We would be affluent enough to piss away €70 for a ticket alrite!
But obviously not affluent enough to get a good education and learn how to spell !!! ;)
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 26, 2008, 08:31:23 PM
Quote from: Tankie on February 26, 2008, 08:26:56 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 26, 2008, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: Tankie on February 26, 2008, 08:18:49 PM
it was a sell out but i guess some people just didnt turn up for whatever reason.
They were probably all for a certain county thats on the east coast in between Meath and Wicklow and with Kildare to its side
We would be affluent enough to piss away €70 for a ticket alrite!
But obviously not affluent enough to get a good education and learn how to spell !!! ;)
In my private education we were taught to stay in touch with the common folk as you will never know when you need a light bulb changed and that is why I chose to click ignore when spell check highlighted it! ;D
Quote from: Tankie on February 26, 2008, 08:34:12 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 26, 2008, 08:31:23 PM
Quote from: Tankie on February 26, 2008, 08:26:56 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on February 26, 2008, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: Tankie on February 26, 2008, 08:18:49 PM
it was a sell out but i guess some people just didnt turn up for whatever reason.
They were probably all for a certain county thats on the east coast in between Meath and Wicklow and with Kildare to its side
We would be affluent enough to piss away €70 for a ticket alrite!
But obviously not affluent enough to get a good education and learn how to spell !!! ;)
In my private education we were taught to stay in touch with the common folk as you will never know when you need a light bulb changed and that is why I chose to click ignore when spell check highlighted it! ;D
Or maybe your actually from Darndale and you pretending to be from somewhere like Blackrock but every now and then your "real" Dub accent/slang words come out...
Either way its good to have you back Tankie where have you been?
I'd take a guess in saying Mountjoy ;) ???
In answer to my own question
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations-2008/other-news/no-extra-croker-tickets--for-wales-match-1298051.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations-2008/other-news/no-extra-croker-tickets--for-wales-match-1298051.html)
No extra Croker tickets for Wales match
By Hugh Farrelly
Tuesday February 26 2008
THE IRFU has no plans to increase Croke Park's capacity to accommodate the demand for tickets for Ireland's Six Nations showdown with Wales on Saturday week.
The bucket seats at the Hill 16 end, installed for the soccer international friendly between Ireland and Brazil on February 6, cut capacity from 82,300 to 76,000 but there are no moves to remove them despite the massive interest in the March 8 clash between two sides still in the hunt for Triple Crown and Championship honours.
"We have sold tickets for those seats on a package basis and it is therefore not possible to remove them at this stage," said IRFU spokesman Karl Richardson yesterday.
Fortunate
"We are fortunate to have access to Croke Park and are very aware of working with the GAA and FAI."
The Ireland squad had a day of rehabilitation and pool recovery sessions yesterday and there are no injury worries among the 22 involved in their 34-13 victory over Scotland on Saturday.
Winger Shane Horgan and second-row Paul O'Connell, who cam on in the second half, are expected to line out for Leinster and Munster respectively in the Magners League this weekend while hooker Jerry Flannery continues to recover from his hamstring injury.
- Hugh Farrelly
Secondrow Paul O'Connell and hooker Rory Best have both been promoted to the starting XV for the RBS Six Nations championship game against Wales from the replacements bench that they occupied in Ireland's last game against Scotland.
Both O'Connell and Best came on against Scotland in Croke Park and the players that they replaced, Mick O'Driscoll and Bernard Jackman have moved to the replacements for the game.
A vacancy has been left at full back as Geordan Murphy and Girvan Dempsey are recovering from achilles and hip injuries respectively at this time. A decision on who will be selected at full back will befollowing training on Thursday.
IRELAND TEAM & REPLACEMENTS (v Wales, 2008 RBS 6 Nations, Croke Park, Saturday, March 8th, kick-off 1:15 p.m. local time):
15 - A. N. Other
14 - Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 11
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) 82 (capt)
12 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 22
11 - Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 4
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster) 80
9 - Eoin Reddan (London Wasps) 8
1 - Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster) 54
2 - Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 20
3 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster) 82
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 43
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 50
6 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster) 30
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster) 44
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Clontarf/Leinster) 6
Replacements
16 - Bernard Jackman (Clontarf/Leinster) 7
17 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster) 5
18 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) 14
19 - Simon Easterby (Llanelli Scarlets) 64
20 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster) 81
21 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster) 7
22 - Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster) 59
Not Considered
Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster) {hamstring}
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster) {arm}
If everyone's fit i think dempsey has to get the nod at full back. this will be a game where missed tackles can't be tolerated as wales will punish every mistake. hooker remains a problem position in the absence of flannery. i'd also have started shaggy instead of bowe for the simple reason that williams never seems to be able to deal with him.
Worse case scenario if both full backs aren't fit what will happen?
Will kearney move to full back and bring Horgan onto the wing? If so who'll come onto the bench?
Or will wallace go to full back?
My option would be the first.
As for hooker Best has to start. You need to win your set plays what ever standard of rugby your playing and Best has had much better accurrancy rate than Jackman
Massive game for both teams and I think that O'Sullavin has probably got the best team out. Uladh hit the nail on the head as regarding full back. Dempsey will make the tackles and make the yards, where although he was impressive against Scotland, at the minute Murphy doesnt fill me with confidence!
Ireland by 6
Looking for two tickets for the game this weekend. My future brother-in-law is coming over from Wales for the game, along with his friend. I said I'd see if I can get him tickets.
I see Gatland has had a few digs at the Irish team. Nothing we don't know - 'Ireland have difficulty to cope with expectations' and 'O'Driscoll not playing well and has lost a bit of pace'.
Eddie was asked about how he got on with Gatland
"Fine," he began, before adding briefly: "I haven't seen Warren in six-and-a-half years."
As mind games go, that's a TKO :)
Quote from: hardstation on March 04, 2008, 08:24:21 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on March 04, 2008, 08:23:32 PM
Looking for two tickets for the game this weekend. My future brother-in-law is coming over from Wales for the game, along with his friend. I said I'd see if I can get him tickets.
Puckoon! This hoor is trying to shop you.
I'm reporting you! :D
Actually, the git keeps laughing. Tells me he's looking forward to take the Triple-Crown off Ireland in the home of the GAA..... he knows I don't like foreign games being played in Croke Park! >:(
whats your opinions on this game
if ireland dont require an emergebcy full back, then i think we can win this game ok
wales are no big shakes - they have played nobody yet to honest
england should have beaten them and scotland/italy are poor teams - even though we struggled against the italians
i will take ireland by 8
I thought Wales were poor for long stretches against England and Scotland. The thing about them is you have to control the game. If it gets loose and flowing, then they do have the strike runners to do damage, especially if Ireland miss their first up tackles. Byrne, Williams (S), Jones (M) and even old Alfie himself can do damage if they have fast moving ball.
So, I would try and get O'Gara to kick us into position, challenge the Welsh lineout, slow down ruck ball, counter ruck, and when we are inside their 22, go for the throat.
Quote from: gawa316 on March 04, 2008, 07:13:07 PM
Worse case scenario if both full backs aren't fit what will happen?
Will kearney move to full back and bring Horgan onto the wing? If so who'll come onto the bench?
Or will wallace go to full back?
My option would be the first.
As for hooker Best has to start. You need to win your set plays what ever standard of rugby your playing and Best has had much better accurrancy rate than Jackman
From EOS...
Kearney to full back, Horgan onto wing, Fitzgerald onto bench.
He's given til today for either FB to prove their fitness.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 06, 2008, 10:20:20 AM
I thought Wales were poor for long stretches against England and Scotland. The thing about them is you have to control the game. If it gets loose and flowing, then they do have the strike runners to do damage, especially if Ireland miss their first up tackles. Byrne, Williams (S), Jones (M) and even old Alfie himself can do damage if they have fast moving ball.
So, I would try and get O'Gara to kick us into position, challenge the Welsh lineout, slow down ruck ball, counter ruck, and when we are inside their 22, go for the throat.
I think Alfie is retired but shanklin is there and henson is dangerous too, hook an option from the bench
but i agree, if ogara gets it right and ireland control the game we should be ok
still need murphy or dempsay though, maybe kearney would be ok. would he AZ ?
Tom Shankley I meant alright. Gareth Thomas is playing well for Cardiff at the moment, but Shankley is who I was thinking of.
Kearney would prefer to play full back I'd say. He's good under a dropping ball, and should give us a good threat on the run back. However, when Ireland have the ball, I'm not sure if he will be timing his runs into the line the same way Dempsey or especially Murphy do.
Rumors are gathering wind that Kearney will be playing full back.
Am i totally on my own in not rating Kearney at all?
Quote
Am i totally on my own in not rating Kearney at all?
I rate his potential but feel he would be too raw to be playing full-back for Ireland, he is very prone to costly errors and if he starts at full-back Wales will target him early and often.
As for the game still not happy with Eddie O'Sullivan but was happy with the Scottish performance, think Saturday will be an error-ridden game that won't be pretty and will be decided by O'Gara's boot. Ireland to win by 8 - 12 points.
FROM IRISHRUGBY.IE
Following a fitness test before the Ireland training session today, both Geordan Murphy and Girvan Dempsey have been ruled out of the RBS Six Nations Championship game against Wales this Saturday due to Achilles and hip injuries respectively.
With both players unavailable, Robert Kearney moves from the left wing to full back, with Tommy Bowe switching from the right wing to the left. Shane Horgan moves up to the starting XV to take Bowe's position and Luke Fitzgerald comes into the replacements.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 06, 2008, 01:19:46 PM
Quote
Am i totally on my own in not rating Kearney at all?
I rate his potential but feel he would be too raw to be playing full-back for Ireland, he is very prone to costly errors and if he starts at full-back Wales will target him early and often.
As for the game still not happy with Eddie O'Sullivan but was happy with the Scottish performance, think Saturday will be an error-ridden game that won't be pretty and will be decided by O'Gara's boot. Ireland to win by 8 - 12 points.
He might be raw Dinny, but seeing as how the two bucks are probably out, what else would you do?
Any tickets? :D
Tickets :o, you had your chance AZ !!!!
I never said there was an alternative, maybe Bowe or Duffy would be a safer option. The back 3 have all played under-age football for their respective counties, Geordan Murphy was also in the Kildare minor development squad too....funny how that rarely gets highlighted when people talk about the AFL poaching players.......
I believe Rugby is a far bigger threat that AFL or anything like it. I've always said that. I point to my ex-school all the time, but I'm not going to bore ye again :D
I would prefer Kearney to Duffy.
On a different game, what about that idiot danny cipriani
dropped for "inappropriate behaviour" - apparently pictured coming out of a nightclub in the early hours
has to play for wasps on saturday and not travelling with england !
always came across as a very cocky so and so
i guess he thought he made it by being selected for his debut
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12321_3248994,00.html
Clown
As you will see below, its not Danny's first case of poor judgement :D Good Lord........
United as a group by Cipriani's embarrassing tabloid stories, Wasps need to keep that strong bond against Clermont
By SIMON SHAW, London Wasps and England lock
6th December 2007
This has been a very unusual week for London Wasps. It started on Sunday morning when texts started arriving on my mobile urging me to buy a certain tabloid newspaper.
I have to admit that I was intending to buy that paper anyway following the previous Sunday's story about my team-mate Danny Cipriani and a "liaison" he was reported to have had with Miss Larissa Summers while going out with Monica Irimia, one of the Cheeky Girls.
As a result of the latest revelations, Danny - or to give him his new name Danny Cipriani Who Slept With A Man - was responsible for the biggest turnout ever for a Wasps recovery session on a Sunday after a match.
Now, while the young man took considerable stick from the guys over the story which revealed that Larissa had started life as Darren Pratt, the response was tempered by the front-row boys.
They were in a bit of difficult position as, having responded to the original story by congratulating Danny, they now felt implicated by the whole "it was a man" thing. You could argue that he got off lightly and, to give DCWSWAM credit, he handled himself really well.
Whats the face value of the tickets for Saturday?
€30 for the hill and €70 for the stand
Lads , ye should listen to this podcast if ye get achance, the arrogance of the English and Welsh is unbelievable!!
Fast forward in bout 15 mins to hear them talk about the Irish game.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby/
Go to the green bar which says "six nations podcast"
Said that Ireland had a player who has 90 odd caps (o'kelly) and that he wouldn't be fit to clean the English players boots. Dean Richards slagged off John Hayes
Richards also said that if ROG wasn't playing for the last couple of years Ireland would have been relgated somehow...
Quote from: Stagmeister on March 07, 2008, 09:54:26 AM
Lads , ye should listen to this podcast if ye get achance, the arrogance of the English and Welsh is unbelievable!!
Fast forward in bout 15 mins to hear them talk about the Irish game.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby/
Go to the green bar which says "six nations podcast"
Said that Ireland had a player who has 90 odd caps (o'kelly) and that he wouldn't be fit to clean the English players boots. Dean Richards slagged off John Hayes
Richards also said that if ROG wasn't playing for the last couple of years Ireland would have been relgated somehow...
And when was the last time England beat Ireland in the 6 nations?
Quote from: Stagmeister on March 07, 2008, 09:54:26 AM
Lads , ye should listen to this podcast if ye get achance, the arrogance of the English and Welsh is unbelievable!!
Fast forward in bout 15 mins to hear them talk about the Irish game.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby/
Go to the green bar which says "six nations podcast"
Said that Ireland had a player who has 90 odd caps (o'kelly) and that he wouldn't be fit to clean the English players boots. Dean Richards slagged off John Hayes
Richards also said that if ROG wasn't playing for the last couple of years Ireland would have been relgated somehow...
I listened to that just last night. Stephen Jones, Guscott and Dean Richards. A bigger pack of arrogant wankers you would be hard pressed to find.
In the interests of accuracy, it wasn't Richards who proclaimed that Ireland would've been relegated without ROG. it was one of the other muppets
And in the interests of beer, where's best for early pints tomorrow and a fry up. Flight in at 9am :P
Game on, Ireland v Wales, 3-0 (O'Gara penalty)
What the f**k is that shite that blast out after every score. A bit of Ceili and the score a coupl of times. Bunch of tripe, get that shit out of it!
Ireland 6-0, Horgan close with a try but short of the line!
Poor game so far. Ireland really playing a 10 man game at the moment. Cant really remember O'Drico getting his hands on the ball so far.
any update lads
Ireland 9 Wales 13
62 minutes gone
poor game.
awful cynical trip there
I think the talent has been there but then the managers a fcukwit, its a bit like the opposite with Mayo - decent managers but the fcukwits are on the field.
Quote from: feetofflames on March 08, 2008, 02:55:20 PM
I think the talent has been there but then the managers a fcukwit, its a bit like the opposite with Mayo - decent managers but the fcukwits are on the field.
your a bit harsh there FoF Fair enough the boys haven't brought home the sam maguire but they have given us mayo supporters many great days out so keep your fcukwit comments to yourself they deserve more respect than what your givien them you fcukwit
Jackman has just won it for Wales.
Deel I withdraw my comment only looking a rise. :-*
The way things are Eddie could have the All-Blacks but still wouldn't get a performance out of them. Irish rugby needs a change urgently.
fair enough Fof you got one ;) :-*
Time for steady eddie to go! who would get motivated when you have this clown talking to ya.
Would love to see Jake White as coach - im sure its a challenge that he would be up for!
Captain Hook for manager. Anyone but Eddie. If we had lost a classic I wouldn't mind. With backs we have we never passed, with Wallace, Leamy and Heaslip we never gave them a run. Awful gameplan, awful performance, awful manager,
Ok Eddie mightn't be very inspiring at the minute but IF Horgan had scored the try in the first half, Eddie would have been the best thing since bread was sliced.
Wales picked up the Triple Crown trophy up the hallowed steps of the Hogan Stand.
Quote from: orangeman on March 08, 2008, 03:42:38 PM
Ok Eddie mightn't be very inspiring at the minute but IF Horgan had scored the try in the first half, Eddie would have been the best thing since bread was sliced.
To be fair, he wouldn't. It might have bought him some more time, but he'd have to do a lot to be the best thing since sliced bread.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on March 08, 2008, 04:25:27 PM
Wales picked up the Triple Crown trophy up the hallowed steps of the Hogan Stand.
In fairness what harm have the sheepshaggers ever done to us?
have to say that I like wales (in rugby at least).
They play the game the way it should be played and always try to do so (all teams are guilty of tripping or illegal activities guring the game - aussies and sa are worst btw)
Delighted for wales and they deserved it.
Will their nerve last and can they take the grand slam?
Ireland are mediocre , currently with great unused talent.
Quote from: Turlough O Carolan on March 08, 2008, 05:26:02 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on March 08, 2008, 04:25:27 PM
Wales picked up the Triple Crown trophy up the hallowed steps of the Hogan Stand.
In fairness what harm have the sheepshaggers ever done to us?
No harm at all Turlough sure didn't they give us st patrick to get rid of the snakes ;)
I think this si also the end of o Driscoll as captain, he has never been a true captain...time to hand it to the big red lad and let him "put the fear of god in the opposition"
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on March 08, 2008, 06:11:46 PM
I think this si also the end of o Driscoll as captain, he has never been a true captain...time to hand it to the big red lad and let him "put the fear of god in the opposition"
Why not?
O'Driscoll has been very poor - loves the publicity etc etc - it's been a while since he showed what he was capabl of and should be stripped of the captaincy and let somebody else have a go.
Quote from: orangeman on March 08, 2008, 09:48:59 PM
O'Driscoll has been very poor - loves the publicity etc etc - it's been a while since he showed what he was capabl of and should be stripped of the captaincy and let somebody else have a go.
O Connell is the popular choice to take over as captain but it has to be said he had a poor world cup also and was no great shakes today. He knocked on numerous times and then as pack leader saw his scrum pushed back by seven welshmen. An awful lot of this irish team are living on past glories, the lack of pace today was awful as it was against the french. Only Rob Kearney in flashes showed any pace or invention. Next week at Twickenham is a dead rubber for both sides, while it is always good to beat the english at anything winning next week would not prove much if it is done playing 10 man rugby like we did against france and tried today. Personally I would like to see a few new faces get a try out, if we lose so what Tony Buckly should start as should Luke Fitzgerald. Why not bring along young O Connor from Ulster as back up fly half, it is pretty clear that Paddy Wallace will not take ROGs place anytime soon so why not introduce a youngster to the squad.France began experimenting for the next world cup at the start of the tournament we should start next saturday.
Having said that I dont think it will happen, Eddie will want to go to twickers and avoid a hammering at all costs, keep eddie in his job and never worry about the next world cup.
No arguements, the better team won. Ireland has the talent, but they lack direction. EOS should have left two years ago and I'm surprised he got a new contract before the World Cup. Should have been shedded after their performance.
The brother-in-law is delighted. Rang me from Croke Park to rub my nose it in.
Shocking display by Ireland today. An incredible lack of ambition on our part against a decent but far from great Welsh side. A change of management is badly needed as the whole set up appears very stale. Eddie has had long enough in charge. Time for a new voice with new ideas that might reinvigorate the players. Jake White is still looking for a job?
Fair play to Rob Kearney. Very good performance. He did get turned over for the Welsh try alright but I thought he was Ireland's best player by a mile.
WTF was Jackman doing? Did he lose the small bit of sense the Lord gave him?
It was a rank performace overall but Ireland could still have undeservedly stolen it until that lump eejit gave away a needless penalty.
EOS needs to have a long think about his position now - if we lose to England on Sat then it wil be the worst 5/6 Nations since 1999.
Just back from Croke Park, as we were leaving I saw a bunch of gurriers around the gates. I said to the brother watch the wallet you don't want to get robbed. He took his ticket out and said we just have been!
Worst display I've seen in over 20 years. No game plan at all. Are there no talented young fellas playing rugby.....France, Wales all are prepared to give youth a chance....EOS's idea is bring on a couple of lads with 5 mins to go.
Time for a clean sweep, get rid of all the dead wood.
i was beside a few welsh lads at the game and i cringed every time ireland scored ( thankfully not too often) and they played that awful diddly di shite. They might as well have had a few lads dressed up as leprechauns outfits dancing with shillelagh's
Quote from: ludermor on March 09, 2008, 07:59:47 PM
i was beside a few welsh lads at the game and i cringed every time ireland scored ( thankfully not too often) and they played that awful diddly di shite. They might as well have had a few lads dressed up as leprechauns outfits dancing with shillelagh's
Give it a few years and we'll have it at championship matches in the GAA. Only a small step from that to young ones shaking big mops.
That was an unforgivable insult to the All-Ireland Champions.
"Congratulations ... when I tell everyone that you're in love with me"!!!
It shows what some gobshites in Croke Park are capable of.
France need to beat Wales by 20 points or more in Cardiff to win the 2008 championship.
Woeful performance, EOS has got to go etc.
One thing, Trimble shouldn't be allowed play rugby at that level again, how close was he to Shane Williams when he nipped in for that try? It wasn't the Monaghan U-16 development squad he was playing for, he can tackle people in rugby, all he needed to do was jump on him! Shocking stuff
Desperate performance, never seen Croker so quiet. Atmosphere pure dung.
Brutal stuff to watch. Ireland lacked heart, or a real game plan I thought. They were at their best when sticking it up the jumper in the first 20 minutes against the wind, there were a few munster-like phases with recycling and pick and drives, which is good when you can't kick. If horgan had been 6'6'' the game would have been totally different.
From then on though, we never had a grip on the game. Wales owned the ball, we didn't slow them down enough, and when we did have the ball we kicked crazily. I presume Reddan was under instructions, but the amount of Box kicks which landed on top of Byrne or Williams was bananas.
O'Driscoll is not a great leader in the roaring and shouting department, but he used to lead by example, and the amount of ball he used to turn over in the tackle was inspirational in itself. He's not doing that now, and hasn't for a while, probably because of injuries.
I don't think Paulie would be a great captain either to be honest. I'm not convinced of him in the Munster jersey as captain, and I actually like Ronan O'Gara's coolness when making decisions, which a captain needs.
jackmans attack on jones was one of the stupidest things i ever saw on a playing field, be it soccer, rugby or GAA.
it was cowardly too. Jones had his arms in the air and never saw it coming. he could have caused the chap a serious injury
the other players should have given jackman some earful after the match
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on March 10, 2008, 09:49:35 AM
jackmans attack on jones was one of the stupidest things i ever saw on a playing field, be it soccer, rugby or GAA.
it was cowardly too. Jones had his arms in the air and never saw it coming. he could have caused the chap a serious injury
the other players should have given jackman some earful after the match
Agree. I think Jackman was pissed off after being dropped, and decided to lay down a physical marker when he came on. To say it was ill-advised would be understatement of the month.
Of course the situation is difficult because we are in a transitional phase. The first year the coaches usually want to see as many players as possible. It is true that Marc Lievremont and co have brought in a lot of new faces. So far in this tournament, they have seen a total of 37 new players in only four matches!
The above was taken from the 6 nations website.
compare this with what what we have done
The french are aiming for world cup 2011
if they win a 6 nations tournament in between times its a bonus
what have we learned in the last 2 months
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on March 10, 2008, 09:49:35 AM
one of the stupidest things i ever saw on a playing field,
I actually couldnt believe what i had just seen. An action of sporting suicide if I ever saw one. What was he thinking?
Ireland were toothless and incompetant. Perhaps we shouldnt let them play in Croke park again for being so rubbish, they're lowering the value of the property by covering it with shite. they can go play in Donnybrook. I'd love to know what Eddies game plan was..........give Wales as much possesion as possible and hope they get tired?
Was in a pub in Cornwall which was full of Welsh men. It was quite dull to be honest, considering the game was brutal. Sadly one Welsh asshole thought it was alright to shout abusive comments at the Irish players on TV. Calling Paul O'Connell a "Stupid f**king Mick", Jackman a "Thick Paddy" and Brian O'Driscol a "Soft Mammys Boy" while going off injured. While it was tempting to break this individuals nose I decided I'd ignore him. Sadly there are still some people in Britain that think its ok to use that kind of abuse towards Irish people. But thats a whole other topic.
To be honest the perfomance and game plan was one of the worst have seen from an Irish rugby team. I lay the blame firmly at O'Sullivans feet and as I have been stating for the past year he has to go. Obvously he's not going to resign so somebody in the IRFU needs to develop balls or else they'll end up looking like the FAI...
15 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester) 55
14 - Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 12
13 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 23
12 - Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster) 60
11 - Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 5
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster) 81 Captain
9 - Eoin Reddan (London Wasps) 9
1 - Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster) 55
2 - Rory Best (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 21
3 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster) 83
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 44
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 51
6 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster) 31
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster) 45
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Clontarf/Leinster) 7
Replacements
16 - Bernard Jackman (Clontarf/Leinster) 8
17 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster) 6
18 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster) 14
19 - Simon Easterby (Llanelli Scarlets) 64
20 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster) 81
21 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster) 7
22 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster) 3
Not considered due to injury
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster) {Arm}
Girvan Dempsey (Terenure College/Leinster) {Hip}
Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster) {Hamstring}
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) {Hamstring}[/i
what is that clown doing now..
Kearney had a great game at full back why not leave him there for another game. He won't pick murphy when he should have been picked.
We are just playing for pride so why not give fitzgerald a game at this stage too.
just a quick question not related to the team.
why are the players still down as being attached to clubs
eg 14 - Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 12
13 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 23
12 - Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster) 60
11 - Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 5
surely these guys would hardly more than watch a boyne or UCD match nowadays never mind kick a ball for them
if shannon and cork con were in the AIL final, could stringer and o'gara effectively play for them if the manager wanted to ??
Very interesting that O'Gara is captain rather than O'Connell.
Horgan is always muck at centre and will continue to be muck. Big thick meathman when confronted with a decision always makes the wrong one. Put him on the wing and all he has to do is tackle when he hasnt got the ball, or run through the lad in front of him when he has the ball - and he's brilliant at that. He's especially good against big strong wingers like England have.
If he didnt want to risk young Luke, he could have played Murphy at centre with Kearney at full back and Horgan on the wing, and you'd have a stronger team.
England make only one change.
Cirpirani in at 10 for Jonny.
Murphy at centre is too much of a risk. the centre options are very poor at this stage.
Great chance to finish with a flourish as the english press, players and management know that saturday is ashton's last game in charge.
If a lost to England is what it takes to get rid of EoS... then so be it.
heretic... you could be burnt at the stake for comments like that!
QuoteVery interesting that O'Gara is captain rather than O'Connell.
That's what I said a while ago. I don't rate Paul O'Connell as a captain yet. As for Hoof Hearted's question, yes, I believe if they have no prior commitment to their province, the clubs can still ask them to play. Paul O'Connell recently played for Young Munster, David Wallace has played for Garryowen in the not too distant past, and I believe Jerry Flannery picked up a man of the match award in the AIL final when he was backup to Frankie Sheahan. Also fringe players like Jeremy Manning, Mossie Lawlor, Anthony Horgan etc, have played for Con and Shannon as well.
Quote from: Hound on March 11, 2008, 01:56:33 PM
Big thick meathman when confronted with a decision always makes the wrong one.
thanks......love you too :'(
Quote from: Uladh on March 11, 2008, 03:07:13 PM
heretic... you could be burnt at the stake for comments like that!
EoS will stay on, if Ireland beat the English, which isn't a big ask at the minute.
Great try by ireland, Kearney scored
10 Nil for Ireland 7 minutes gone
Land of St Patrick 10 - Land of St George 10
Quote from: the Deel Rover on March 15, 2008, 03:34:53 PM
Land of St Patrick 10 - Land of St Andrew 10
Wales playing Scotland then? ;)
Quote from: Turlough O Carolan on March 15, 2008, 03:42:30 PM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on March 15, 2008, 03:34:53 PM
Land of St Patrick 10 - Land of St Andrew 10
Wales playing Scotland then? ;)
oops sorry about that Turlough Adopted land of st patrick 10 - Land of St George 13 ;) :D
Johnny Wilkinson=Yoda? :o
Cheerio Eddie, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. (and if you could take ROG with you it would be handy.)
Anyone any idea why, with Balshaw at full back, ireland never put up a single garryowen all day?
Quote from: SammyG on March 15, 2008, 04:55:02 PM
Cheerio Eddie, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. (and if you could take ROG with you it would be handy.)
Take Ronan O'Gara with him?? and replace him with who??
Quote from: tyroneboi on March 15, 2008, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: SammyG on March 15, 2008, 04:55:02 PM
Cheerio Eddie, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. (and if you could take ROG with you it would be handy.)
Take Ronan O'Gara with him?? and replace him with who??
Paddy Wallace would be the obvious replacement (although he's not having a great year) but even if we'd nobody we'd be better off with 14 men, than playing ROG, he's a complete liability.
QuotePaddy Wallace would be the obvious replacement (although he's not having a great year) but even if we'd nobody we'd be better off with 14 men, than playing ROG, he's a complete liability.
I'd know little enough about rugby but if that comment is anything to go by you know less. Surely his goal kicking and kicking from the hand are reasons enough to keep him there. And I've never heard anyone talk up Paddy Wallace as anything more than average in most facets of the game.
Quote from: Zulu on March 15, 2008, 06:00:36 PM
QuotePaddy Wallace would be the obvious replacement (although he's not having a great year) but even if we'd nobody we'd be better off with 14 men, than playing ROG, he's a complete liability.
I'd know little enough about rugby but if that comment is anything to go by you know less. Surely his goal kicking and kicking from the hand are reasons enough to keep him there. And I've never heard anyone talk up Paddy Wallace as anything more than average in most facets of the game.
I presume you didn't read my post, I said that Wallace isn't great but he's still miles better than ROG who is a complete liability and has been for several years.
O'Gara? It's very easy to say he's the best we have, as nobody else has ever been given a chance under Eddie. The only time Paddy Wallace started a game for Ireland against reasonable opposition, he put in a flawless performance (Pacific Islanders), only never to be trusted again. The likes of Andy Dunne and Ian Humphreys will probably never even find themselves in that position.
As far as I'm concerned, whenever everything is put on a plate for him by his pack, O'Gara is useful at kicking for the corners (no better than useful, nowhere near Wilkinson's class or Humphrey's class in that aspect of the game), but under any other circumstances, he is limited to point of liability. People say he is a confidence player, I would disagree. It may look like he has no confidence when he is playing behind anything other than a destructive pack, but the reality is he just can't play any other way - he isn't good enough. It's not confidence that's his problem.
The soft ride he has gotten from the Irish coaches and Irish media in recent seasons is deplorable. Awarding him the captaincy is nothing short of despicable. Paddy Wallace and co might no be world-beaters, but to describe the everpresent incumbent at no.10 as on a different plain to them is just pure wrong.
Today was rubbish, absolutely rubbish. O'Sullivan can't affect proceedings too much after the kick off, but I'll make two points on why he should go: 1) Shane Horgan is not, never has been, and never will be, an international centre. When he plays there against stronger opposition, Ireland lose. 2) Mick O'Driscoll may have developed into a passable international second row, but he is not, nver has been, and never will be either an international back row forward, or an international class impact substitute. If Eddie can't see these things after 5 years in the job, then he isnt fit to be picking an international team.
Sammy like I said I wouldn't be a big rugby fan so I don't watch much of it but I do know quite a few rugby fans and I have never heard any of them suggest that Ronan O'Gara is anything less than a quality kicking outhalf. Not wanting to be pedantic here but you said that PW wasn't having a great year, not that he wasn't great and either way you're the first person I've heard of who thinks PW is 'miles better than Ronan. If you admit Wallace isn't great do you not think that O'Gara's kicking is reason enough to keep him in the team?
Zulu, O'Gara's kicking is good, but it's not exceptionally good, and certainly not enough to warrant a place in a team by itself. I would suggest Wallace is every bit as accurate, but probably wouldn't have the same length as ROG.
So wobbler are you saying that Wallace is the better outhalf and just as good a kicker? If so why isn't there more of a clamour for his introductiion? Could yourself and Sammy's opinion be coloured by an Ulster bias? I'm not saying it is but it is natural to feel that 'your man' should get the nod in a tight decision. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm just surprised to read this here when everyone else seems to think it is one of the few things EOS is getting right.
FFS Zulu, this is not a provincial thing.
A man called O'Gara has earned almost 100 caps for Ireland, and just been awarded the captaincy, despite regularly proving himself incapable as an international fly-half. That is the issue here, nothing else.
I don't give a flying f**k who replaces him or where they're from, but I would like to see a change.
By the way, it's not a 'tight' decision. There is absolutely no evidence that PW could be an international fly-half. Why? Because he hasn't been given a chance. Why? Because the Irish management have been quite content to settle for mediocrity in the most important position in rugby.
I hate to point out something obvious in this debate but Paddy Wallace has never been able to nail down the number 10 shirt for Ulster never mind Ireland. He is currently being kept at centre for Ulster with Niall O Connor at fly half. O Connor has played right through the ranks for Ireland at fly half and is a much better long term replacement for ROG than Paddy Wallace. Unfortunately due to EOS desperate attempt to keep himself in a job he was completely unwilling to take a young player like O Connor along with the seniors for experience.
Ireland dont have many options at 10 but O'Gara is still a quality player. Paddy Wallace isn't even playing 10 for Ulster at the minute. Ian Humphreys doesnt get much game time with Leicester and Niall O'Connor isnt close to being ready for international rugby. And then who are we left with? not many. Sammy to say Wallace is miles better than O'Gara is laughable to say the least. ROG obviously didnt have the best World Cup but his form in the Heineken Cup has been his usual high standard one of the best 10s in the tournament and he has been decent enough in the Six Nations.
That's your opinion wobbler and that's fair enough, but I guarantee that you wouldn't find too much support for your position down here in Munster, while it appears you would in Ulster, which is again fair enough. People tend to lean toward their own and all I asked was if it was possible if your opinion was a bit coloured. I know many rugby supporters down here won't here of a bad word said about some of the Munster lads. I originally posted because of Sammy's post that Wallace was miles better than O'Gara, now you're saying there is no evidence to suggest that Wallace is an international out half. So are you complaining about O'Gara's selection or the fact that EOS didn't give Wallace game time to show what he can do? If it's the latter when should he have done it and why is yours the minority view in the media?
P.S. I'm not arguing with you here I'm just curious as to what you're saying and why it appears to be the minority view.
There is no evidence to suggest Wallace is an international outhalf. But nor is there any evidence to suggest he isn't. We won't know until he is given 30+ mins in a competitive match. This could have happened in any match this season, especially once the Grand Slam dream had gone.
You know, if EOS had have been in charge of Wales for the past 5 seasons, we'd have the same doubts over James Hook's ability.
To be fair I think Wallace is just about good enough to play at provincial level. I have seen a lot of Ulster games and many Ulster supporters would say he is an average player.
I think as a general point, as has been said before, far too many of this irish team are living on their reputation and not the performances of this season. Today was an ideal oppotunity with not a lot at stake, the championship was gone for both teams, to try a few different players and see how it went. Personally I would have kept O Gara but dropped Paul O Connel who was woeful against wales and poor again today. He may not be fully fit but if that is the case he should be off the team. I agree about horgan not being a centre, would have given Luke Fitz a run to see what he was made of. Having said that trimble was poor again today and has had a very poor tournament.
considering that our under 20's got a severe beating the other night, the future of Irish rugby looks dim.
Quoteconsidering that our under 20's got a severe beating the other night, the future of Irish rugby looks dim
Except our u20s won the grand slam the year before ::)
Anyway underage success is not a barometer that transcends to Senior level very well.
As for the Irish performance yesterday, it just seemed rudderless and leaderless. The defensive allignment looked poor and the chase on the kick was poor. Our midfield option taking and support was as poor as I have ever seen.
Some points.....
1. O'Sullivan is now gone
2. O'Connell should never have been selected
3. Hayes, Easterby, Wallace, Dempsey and Murphy should all retire gracefully
4. We need a backs coach.
5. We need a new line-out coach
6. We need a specialist 7
7. I believe the players are there, the talent is coming through we just need a coach with a vision and that has the confidence to bring in specialist coaches....Jake White would be my choice followed by a combo of Matt Williams and Alan Gaffney maybe Declan Kidney could do a job maybe...
8. By the way I'm not his biggest fan but anyone slating O'Gara I would have to question their agenda....
Hopefully this will be a watershed....
Dinny why do think Murphy and Wallace should retire?
I guess someone has to go.
Not that I know much about the game, I only tend to notice their strengths.
Are there a few replacements in the reserves for them?
I don't see why you feel there is some agenda here Dinny. The truth is that O'Gara has been centrally involved as playmaker and decision maker in almost every minute of Irish Rugby since the World Cup opener, and during that time the creativity of Ireland's backline has dropped immensely, and is now on a par with Italian rugby. He is not solely culpaple for the decline, but he surely has to take a lion's share of responsibility.
When you throw in a succession of missed touches, yesterday's appalling handling, and his perennial deficiency in defence, I find it bewildering that he could be considered untouchable enough to be made captain.
Questionable agenda? When it's wummer SammyG, who has been moaning about O'Gara for years, even ranting about such non events as when O'Gara was caught looking sideways during Ulster's Call before playing an excellent game.
I feel there is an agenda because O'Gara is not from Ulster, the fact that you mentioned Wallace as a possible replacement is palpable, Sexton or Hickey would be more reasonable alternatives. Wallace has shown nothing to prove he is a provincial 10 never mind an international 10 and is currently 2nd choice in his own province. O'Gara is an excellent distributor of the ball but this 6 nations he had a clearly out of form BOD and D'Arcy, a useless lump in Horgan and a is he a centre or a winger Trimble all outside him. O'Gara's kicking game is second to none, missed touches are sometimes done deliberately rather than concede a line-out. He has however a fragile defence and poses no threat with ball in hand. We have no alternative and we have no competition for 10 since the Dave Hump retired. McHugh, Hickey, Staunton and Humps Jnr were all allowed leave the country leaving 2 qualified out-halfs playing for their provinces. He is the only out-half we have....
Quote
Dinny why do think Murphy and Wallace should retire?
Murphy is 30 and I just don't think he has much left in him. he's certainly lost a yard of pace and I feel we should develop Fitzgearld or Kearney now for the full-back spot. Likewise Wallace is nearly 32, has a had poor 6 nations and is no longer a force at 7, could still do a job for Munster at 6 or 8 I think.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 16, 2008, 11:35:57 AM
Quoteconsidering that our under 20's got a severe beating the other night, the future of Irish rugby looks dim
Except our u20s won the grand slam the year before ::)
Anyway underage success is not a barometer that transcends to Senior level very well.
As for the Irish performance yesterday, it just seemed rudderless and leaderless. The defensive allignment looked poor and the chase on the kick was poor. Our midfield option taking and support was as poor as I have ever seen.
Some points.....
1. O'Sullivan is now gone
2. O'Connell should never have been selected
3. Hayes, Easterby, Wallace, Dempsey and Murphy should all retire gracefully
4. We need a backs coach.
5. We need a new line-out coach
6. We need a specialist 7
7. I believe the players are there, the talent is coming through we just need a coach with a vision and that has the confidence to bring in specialist coaches....Jake White would be my choice followed by a combo of Matt Williams and Alan Gaffney maybe Declan Kidney could do a job maybe...
8. By the way I'm not his biggest fan but anyone slating O'Gara I would have to question their agenda....
Hopefully this will be a watershed....
I'd be inclined to add Shane Horgan to the list on point three, he's certainly not a first 15 certainty now, should never be considered as a centre and only given the odd run out on the wing if and when someone is injured. Jamie Noone cleared both him and Trimble out on saturday. Trimbles saving grace is his age but will need to be better coached in his positioning, seemed a bit lost at times.
O'Connell had an horrendous day, loosing the ball in contact and seemingly going it alone far too often, maybe that's where Leamy was missing and Easterby wasn't up to the mark. What happened Neil Best, he never let anyone down in any of the internationals I've seen him play? At least he can send a man backwards in a tackle, something we're not good at.
I noticed that the Ireland defence is happier to stay in a line and drift rather than rush onto their opposite number like the Welsh did against France, I suppose with the lack of a French kicking game they are less likely to get hit but the grubber kick but I'd suggest it's more to do with Edwards rugby league esque defence.
The pluses for the year has to be heaslip and Kearney, but more reinforcements are required in the front row and the backs for Ireland to compete next year. A new team needs to be built and I don't think Eddie is the man. I wonder if any non tax paying Irish billionaires would found the salary of a top international coach?
In fairness Horgan should never be considered for the centre. He's a winger and a very good one. He hasn't been a regular centre for donkey's years. He was one of Ireland's better players against Wales from the wing so he still has a lot to offer there.
O'Connell didn't have a good day alright but it was probably only his third full game back after a long injury lay-off. He probably shouldn't have played in the championship at all because he looked a fair bit off the pace.
laughing stock of the northern hemisphere we are
less than 6 months ago, wales were in the exact same boat to us if not worse. lost to fiji in the group stage (at least the argies are rated higher)
not 1/2 an hour after the defeat, jenkins was called into a wee room and told thanks but no thanks
now they are grand slam winners - it wasnt rocket science what they done, manager failed so they replaced him.
with the right men in charge at the RFU, that could have been us
400 mins of rugby and we could pick out 30 mins against france and scotland where we got a decent cheer
very very dissapointing
Wales are no great shakes. They did put in a very good performance v France, but I firmly believe this was the worst standard 6 Nations tournament since Eddie O'Sullivan became Irish boss. Which highlights how bad Ireland (and many of the others) played this year.
Quote from: Hound on March 19, 2008, 11:40:08 AM
Wales are no great shakes. They did put in a very good performance v France, but I firmly believe this was the worst standard 6 Nations tournament since Eddie O'Sullivan became Irish boss. Which highlights how bad Ireland (and many of the others) played this year.
Wales aren't great shakes but they still have two 6 nations in the bag in very recent years, so they are doing something right my guess is that their players aren't wrapped in so much cotton wool in relation to club games and are battle hardened more so that their Irish counterparts. The English players also play a lot more games than their Irish counteparts and guess who faded most on saturday past!