In Sean Holllywood Arts Centre this Friday and Sunday night, 8pm, tickets £10 available by phoning 028 3031 3180. I urge any of you who haven't seen this play, about sectarianism at North of Ireland games to go along
Really liked this week's Newry Democrat preview as follows
"The play us about a protestant man, Kenneth Mc Allister, who goes to Windsor Park to watch the World Cup qualifying game between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland in 1993.He becomes repulsed by the sectarianism he hears around him coming from his own community and takes a few decisions which result in him goimng to America to suopport the Republic in the World Cup Finals.So from the night he sets foot in Windsor Park, he sets off on a journey that transforms his life, the perception of himself and the two communities in Belfast"
This is obviously a warm up for Kielty before he takes the play to Belfast's Grand Opera House later this month. His biggest challenge will be to get into the unionist psyche and display the hatred and bigotry accurately. This play could be ruined by an over emphasis of its comic element. Dan Gordon got it just right, but he was from East Belfast. Kielty has a hard act to follow as Gordon played the role brilliantly and I think also he went on a similar personal journey in his own life from East Belfast protestant unionist to Irish nationalist
QuoteHis biggest challenge will be to get into the unionist psyche and display the hatred and bigotry accurately.
do you never get bored of the same oul shite
If Kielty is our evangalist , it might take longer than we thought
Quote from: nifan on August 01, 2007, 11:45:11 AM
QuoteHis biggest challenge will be to get into the unionist psyche and display the hatred and bigotry accurately.
do you never get bored of the same oul shite
he gets ye every time though! ;)
Quote from: nifan on August 01, 2007, 11:45:11 AM
QuoteHis biggest challenge will be to get into the unionist psyche and display the hatred and bigotry accurately.
do you never get bored of the same oul shite
Replying to him, just gives him oxygen to do it again ;)
Am I right in thinking Tony is the reason these guys joined in the first place?
Quite the compliment Tony.
On the subject of this week's Newry Democrat there is an excleent photo of my wife and her better half ;D, in attendance at an evening in aid of Chernobyl, along with the patron, Pat Jennings at the Canal Court Hotel last week. The big man signed six different books/prpgrammes for me (including the 1967 FA Cup Final Spurs V Chelsea) and asked me if I go over to the Lane often. I told him there was an excellent photo of him in this year's UEFA Cup Final progamme and explained that I had got tickets in anticipation of Spurs being in it, to which he replied prophetically, "We are getting very close" Mark those words!!
fascinating tony.
How many autographs did big pat want from you?
Oh dear! 5 times has just made a mistake - Big Pat 1963-1977 Spurs 1977-1986 Arsenal .... left the Spurs when they were relegated ..
Ah 5IVE Times you were well caught you w**ker.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 01, 2007, 11:34:46 AM
His biggest challenge will be to display the hatred and bigotry accurately.
He could do a lot worse than contact you Tony.
Im with 5ivetimes on this - the way he talks every player to play at arsenal is shite (Henry ffs) yet he somehow doesnt mention Pat playing for arsenal (or NI) that often
Quote from: nifan on August 01, 2007, 01:38:50 PM
Im with 5ivetimes on this - the way he talks every player to play at arsenal is shite (Henry ffs) yet he somehow doesnt mention Pat playing for arsenal (or NI) that often
Your just obsessed with Tony, thats all ;)
He may have played with Arsenal at the end of his distinguished career (losing three out of four major finals, as opposed to winning four out of five with the true North London giants ;D), in what was Spurs biggest transfer howler ever, but he is and always will be a Tottenham man. He coaches the goalkeepers at Tottenham currently and hosts corporate guests in his suite at the Lane. He was approached by Goons fans a year or two ago on his way back to the 6 counties and let them know ion no uncertain terms he is and always will be a Spurs man
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 01, 2007, 01:50:04 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 01, 2007, 01:38:50 PM
Im with 5ivetimes on this - the way he talks every player to play at arsenal is shite (Henry ffs) yet he somehow doesnt mention Pat playing for arsenal (or NI) that often
Your just obsessed with Tony, thats all ;)
No more than you are with sammy :P
Quote from: nifan on August 01, 2007, 02:47:46 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 01, 2007, 01:50:04 PM
Quote from: nifan on August 01, 2007, 01:38:50 PM
Im with 5ivetimes on this - the way he talks every player to play at arsenal is shite (Henry ffs) yet he somehow doesnt mention Pat playing for arsenal (or NI) that often
Your just obsessed with Tony, thats all ;)
No more than you are with sammy :P
I prefer Gweltyah actually, a much easier target ;)
But I wouldnt go so far as to go over to Owc or SOENISC or the likes and register there purely to argue with him.
i had a lot of time on me hands when i registered here
NIFan will you be going to see the play? It is drama that often leads one to revise one's own prejudices etc. I can well understand why the IFA made tickets available for it on its own website.
BTW Watch out for another spectacular from me in the papers this weekend ;)
No i wont be going to see it.
I await your letter with baited breath.
Why not? The play has much relevance 14 years on, with the monoculturalism and beneath the surface latent sectarianism very much par for the course at Windsor.
If the so called Republic of Ireland team were to play there tomorrow would there really be that much difference?
Why would I?
I have talked to many who where there that night and have probably got more views on it than she had when she wrote the play.
The play is also a work of fiction, so its accracy then, much less now should be called into question.
Quotewith the monoculturalism and beneath the surface latent sectarianism very much par for the course at Windsor.
blah blah blah
The play is based on true facts, ie the shameful sectarianism on display at Windsor Park on that November 1993, which involved even the North of Ireland goalkeeper and manager acting as cheerleaders and involving the vast majority of the attendance.
The only fictional thing is the main character turning away from bigotry, so you are quite right. That is an example of the writer using poetic licence as such a thing couldn't happen in real life.
5 Times, I saw this play in the Tivoli in Dublin in the mid to late 90s, with Dan Gordon in the lead. and thought it was powerful. I may go to see it again this weekend, if only to see how Kielty shapes up in the lead role. However a couple of freebies for Meath and Tyrone have landed out of the heavens into my lap, so thats Saturday accounted for! ;D
It is much more about sectarianism at Windsor, it deals with unionist bigotry and misplaced superiority complex in general (which you can see for yourself any day on OWC) and at the end of the day, Windsor Park is quite simply a symptom of this malaise
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 01, 2007, 04:48:10 PM
Tony we all know what goes on in Windsor, that is why we dont go there. It shouldnt really concern us.
Ah but you see, Tony wants to go.....
5 Times, If you don't go to Windsor Park for the reasons below fair enough.
"Northern Ireland Football Fans deserve credit for significant progress made tackling sectarianism"; Michael Boyd, IFA Head of Community Relations
IFA Head of Community Relations, Michael Boyd, today responded to the publicity storm surrounding the promotion of Marie Jone's play "A Night in November", which opens at the Opera House this month. The Play, starring Patrick Keilty, focuses on a Northern Ireland Fan who sees his team defeated by the Republic of Ireland in the World Cup qualifiers of 1993 at Windsor Park, a game which was dogged by sectarianism – just days after the Shankill bombing and Greysteel shootings.
"I agree with comments made by Patrick Kielty that sectarianism is still a serious problem in Northern Ireland, but the people of Northern Ireland, especially those in the Community Sector, are making real progress tackling it. It is a problem which football has taken the lead in challenging over the last seven and a half years through our innovative community relations Football For All campaign.
Working in partnership with the Northern Ireland Community Relations Council, the Special EU Programmes Body for Peace and Reconciliation, UEFA and the Amalgamation of Official Northern Ireland Supporters Club we have made significant progress eradicating sectarianism from international football games. Northern Ireland Football Fans deserve credit for significant progress made tackling sectarianism as they have been at the heart of the positive changes which are winning back family support from all sections of our community. This is something the Producers of the Play recognise as they have asked us to contribute a piece in the Play's official programme highlighting how the progress made in recent years has made a Northern Ireland football game one of the hottest tickets in town!"
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 01, 2007, 04:48:10 PM
Tony we all know what goes on in Windsor, that is why we dont go there. It shouldnt really concern us.
What goes on in windsor?
I cant remember the last time i heard the billy boys at windsor, I have heard it before, ive been going since about 1985, but in recent years nothing.
What sectarian flags? A flag that says i hate catholic flags? I can understand you not necessarily liking the NI flag to some degree - sectarian?
What catholic players are getting a hard time? I cant think of a single squad member who gets abuse from the fans.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 01, 2007, 05:31:17 PM
With its sectarian songs such as the billy boys,
And with that you lost any credibility on this thread.
Quit your bullshitting.
The clock has stopped a long way back, so what was true once upon a time is still valid for all time.
It's a bit like argueing with my missus, a fantastic detailed memory for the list of wrongs that I have done, even going back into past lives.
All of which, according to her, can be used at present with validity.
There must be some way to apply the FIFA ranking criteria to any situation whereby the value of a victory or loss gets diminished as the years roll by, until it eventually vanishes from having any more influence.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 01, 2007, 03:46:48 PM
NIFan will you be going to see the play? It is drama that often leads one to revise one's own prejudices etc.
Quite. Marie Jones and her family now enjoy the drama of NI fans as 'members' of the GAWA.
How about you learn the same lessons she has?
5times, i was at that game along with a catholic friend who was more than happy at the lack of any such songs.
I cnat say whether there was no indivvidual or small group singing it anywhere for certain, but it was certainly not audible in my location or that of other i know.
The main chants on that occasion concerned the fact that the fog meant watching the game was very difficult.
As I said I cannot remember the last time i heard the billy boys sung in windsor. do you think im lying?
Quote from: MW on August 01, 2007, 05:57:11 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 01, 2007, 03:46:48 PM
NIFan will you be going to see the play? It is drama that often leads one to revise one's own prejudices etc.
Quite. Marie Jones and her family now enjoy the drama of NI fans as 'members' of the GAWA.
How about you learn the same lessons she has?
Yes, you can't keep them away from NI games (home and away, different generations of the Jones/McElhinney clan) for love nor money. In a small way, it's a bit of a vindication that the Northern soccer fans and IFA should walk tall in knowing about.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 01, 2007, 06:10:13 PM
Only you can say wether or not you are lying. My guess is that you have a selective memory ;)
So you do believe I am lying.
I can assure you my memory is not selective - I simply havent heard the billy boys or any of that shite in many years, thankfully.
As i said i have heard it many many years ago.
As to your other point, as far as im aware lennon didnt receive any abuse for being a catholic, are you aware of otherwise.
As for windsor being unwelcoming Ive had a good few mates come in the last number of years and none have been in the slightest concerned or bothered with.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 01, 2007, 05:58:22 PM
So they dont sing the Billy Boys in Windsor?
My nephew was at a game a few years back (NI v Finland) and they definitely sang it then. He was about 13 or 14 at the time and said he would never go back. Maybe he is making it up and you are telling the truth ;)
Sorry 5times but that is complete bollix, not twisting or exaggerating just complete lies.
So because you didnt hear it means it didnt happen?? :-\
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 08:48:44 AM
So because you didnt hear it means it didnt happen?? :-\
Not what I said but sure you're getting good at making up what I'm thinking rather than what I've written. ::)
Quote from: SammyG on August 02, 2007, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 08:48:44 AM
So because you didnt hear it means it didnt happen?? :-\
Not what I said but sure you're getting good at making up what I'm thinking rather than what I've written. ::)
No you said he lied, and that it didnt happen Sammy.
I merely questioned how you can be so sure.
It could have been from a tiny minority in the section of the stadium he was in, but you seem to know for a fact it didnt happen.
How so?
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 09:19:17 AM
Quote from: SammyG on August 02, 2007, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 08:48:44 AM
So because you didnt hear it means it didnt happen?? :-\
Not what I said but sure you're getting good at making up what I'm thinking rather than what I've written. ::)
No you said he lied, and that it didnt happen Sammy.
I merely questioned how you can be so sure.
It could have been from a tiny minority in the section of the stadium he was in, but you seem to know for a fact it didnt happen.
How so?
Mainly because it would have been
1) Reported and condemned on OWC
2) Reported by the local media and used as a stick to beat us with
3) Discussed ad infinitum by Fearon et al
4) 5Times would have mentioned it at some stage in the last 10 years since the match in question.
5) Most importantly of all, it would have been stamped out by the people around them and would not have been tolerated.
Sammy if it were by a tiny minority do you not think it possible that the OWC, Tony Fearon or the media did not hear it, but 5times relation did?
And again, you cant honestly be 100% sure that it would have been stamped out by the people around them. That would depend on who was around them, some might have approved, others might not but were afraid to say anything, others may have thought "eegits" to themselves but said nothing.
I'm not saying it happened Sammy, I'm just saying its possible, you cant honestly come out and say this definately did not happen.
I agree with you hhn, it could have happened in a small, isolated incident - it certainly wasnt a collective thing.
However 5times implies that it is my "selective memory" that doesnt remember it, implying that perhaps i should.
It all stems from his "we all know what goes on in windsor" post which implied common place chanting and abuse of catholic players.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 01, 2007, 05:58:22 PM
So they dont sing the Billy Boys in Windsor?
My nephew was at a game a few years back (NI v Finland) and they definitely sang it then. He was about 13 or 14 at the time and said he would never go back. Maybe he is making it up and you are telling the truth ;)
Well I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this claim is false, certainly in the way you presented it. I was at the match and heard no such thing. Neither has anyone else I've ever spoken to who was at the match. And because you don't get these chants at NI matches anymore, and haven't for years, it's remarkable even when two or three idiots try to start them. People notice. It gets shouted down. It gets commented on extensively on OWC.
So its an eye witness account against someone who doesnt like to think that sort of thing could happen.
I've heard racist chants in Croke park before, by the odd idiot, but because someone on the other side of the stadium couldnt hear it, or because nobody else who heard it uses the internet or made a complaint doesnt mean it didnt happen.
Guys, open your mind to the possibility at least rather than downright claim it never happened.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 09:55:57 AM
So its an eye witness account against someone who doesnt like to think that sort of thing could happen.
No, it's a second-hand allegation against several first-hand accounts of the match.
Maybe 5ivetimes or "his nephew" could expand on what exactly he meant? Who are "they", for example?
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 10:01:22 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 09:55:57 AM
So its an eye witness account against someone who doesnt like to think that sort of thing could happen.
No, it's a second-hand allegation against several first-hand accounts of the match.
::)
So its not even possible that a tiny minority sang it??
I'm not saying it happened by the way but you guys have to admit its possible that a small few sang it.
If you cant even admit the possibility then its very hard to take you seriously.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:04:44 AM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 10:01:22 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 09:55:57 AM
So its an eye witness account against someone who doesnt like to think that sort of thing could happen.
No, it's a second-hand allegation against several first-hand accounts of the match.
::)
So its not even possible that a tiny minority sang it??
I'm not saying it happened by the way but you guys have to admit its possible that a small few sang it.
If you cant even admit the possibility then its very hard to take you seriously.
It's within the realms of possibility that two or three people tried to get a chant started , though it would be strange that it was never commented on until now.
However this wouldn't tie in with who 5ivetimes said:
"Well it is no secret that Windsor park is not a very welcoming place for Catholics. With its sectarian songs such as the billy boys...and general all round hatred of all things Irish/Nationalist/Catholic."
"So they dont sing the Billy Boys in Windsor?
My nephew was at a game a few years back (NI v Finland) and they definitely sang it then"
He has, quite simply, been caught on bullshitting.
Well I was commenting on his nephews experience, not the claims that Windsor is not a welcoming place for Catholics.
I have never been so cant comment on that, although my relatives in Belfast would certainly be of that opinion.
It's quite possible that 1 or 2 knuckledraggers attempted to get a chant going. If this is true then it would have been drowned out almost immediately. It has been good few years since I heard any of these chants having to be drowned out.
What is sad here is that this isolated incident has stopped a young lad returning to support Northern Ireland.
What is pathetic here is that this isolated incident has been turned round by a grown man to fuel his own prejudices (and hatred?) of what he perceives to be the norm.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:18:33 AM
Well I was commenting on his nephews experience, not the claims that Windsor is not a welcoming place for Catholics.
I have never been so cant comment on that, although my relatives in Belfast would certainly be of that opinion.
His claim was based on the "experience" (ho hum) or "his nephew", and consequently his claim that "they" sing the Billy Boys.
This would be like me taking this...
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 09:55:57 AM
I've heard racist chants in Croke park before, by the odd idiot
...and saying:
"Well it is no secret that Croke Park is not a very welcoming place for ethnic minorities. With its racist chants...and general all round hatred of all things black/Asian."
"So they dont sing racist chants in Croke?
[ x] was at a game a few years back and they definitely chanted them then"
...which would be garbage.
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 02, 2007, 10:22:23 AM
What is pathetic here is that this isolated incident has been turned round by a grown man to fuel his own prejudices (and hatred?) of what he perceives to be the norm.
So the experience of his nephew putting him off Windsor park makes him "pathetic" ?
You guys are truly the masters of spin :D :D :D :D
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:25:06 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 02, 2007, 10:22:23 AM
What is pathetic here is that this isolated incident has been turned round by a grown man to fuel his own prejudices (and hatred?) of what he perceives to be the norm.
So the experience of his nephew putting him off Windsor park makes him "pathetic" ?
You guys are truly the masters of spin :D :D :D :D
See my post above.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:18:33 AM
Well I was commenting on his nephews experience, not the claims that Windsor is not a welcoming place for Catholics.
I have never been so cant comment on that, although my relatives in Belfast would certainly be of that opinion.
His nephews experience was that 'they' (the crowd at WP) were singing the Billy Boys, this is clearly a lie. You've then changed this to be a remote possibility that some cnut shouted something, which is unlikely but obviously not impossible. As far as your other comment I'll be sure to let my Catholic mates and the Camogie team and all the Cliftonville fans etc etc etc, know that you say they're not welcome. ::)
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:25:06 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 02, 2007, 10:22:23 AM
What is pathetic here is that this isolated incident has been turned round by a grown man to fuel his own prejudices (and hatred?) of what he perceives to be the norm.
So the experience of his nephew putting him off Windsor park makes him "pathetic" ?
You guys are truly the masters of spin :D :D :D :D
What MW said.
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 10:24:42 AM
His claim was based on the "experience" (ho hum) or "his nephew", and consequently his claim that "they" sing the Billy Boys.
This would be like me taking this...
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 09:55:57 AM
I've heard racist chants in Croke park before, by the odd idiot
...and saying:
"Well it is no secret that Croke Park is not a very welcoming place for ethnic minorities. With its racist chants...and general all round hatred of all things black/Asian."
"So they dont sing racist chants in Croke?
- was at a game a few years back and they definitely chanted them then"
...which would be garbage.
Interesting Spin again, I never said anything about racist chants, thats more a soccer thing ;)
And proves my point that these things happen everywhere occasionally and the perpetrators are idiots.
If you said you experienced it I would say that IF its true I fully condemn it.
Not I wouldnt blindy deny it never happened as thats impossible to prove!!
Although lets be honest, Windsor does have a long history of this sort of carry on.
To compare it with Croke park is just silly.
Quote from: SammyG on August 02, 2007, 10:28:35 AM
As far as your other comment I'll be sure to let my Catholic mates and the Camogie team and all the Cliftonville fans etc etc etc, know that you say they're not welcome. ::)
Its not up to me to welcome them or not, I have no intentions of ever going there, and therefore have no right to welcome them or not.
Its the people who do attend regularly who have to be the welcoming ones ;)
Thats your problem not mine :D :D
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:29:43 AM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 10:24:42 AM
His claim was based on the "experience" (ho hum) or "his nephew", and consequently his claim that "they" sing the Billy Boys.
This would be like me taking this...
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 09:55:57 AM
I've heard racist chants in Croke park before, by the odd idiot
...and saying:
"Well it is no secret that Croke Park is not a very welcoming place for ethnic minorities. With its racist chants...and general all round hatred of all things black/Asian."
"So they dont sing racist chants in Croke?
- was at a game a few years back and they definitely chanted them then"
...which would be garbage.
Interesting Spin again, I never said anything about racist chants, thats more a soccer thing ;)
Aye thats right. Spin ::)
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:29:43 AMInteresting Spin again, I never said anything about racist chants, thats more a soccer thing ;)
Jesus. Fecking. Cleary. Are you completely divorced from reality, or can you really not remember what you've just said?? ???
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 09:55:57 AM
I've heard racist chants in Croke park before, by the odd idiot,
FFS the above was even contained in both our quotes!!
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:29:43 AM
Although lets be honest, Windsor does have a long history of this sort of carry on.
To compare it with Croke park is just silly.
Truely pathetic comment. WP has been in use for about 100 years, for about 10-15 of those years it had a problem with sectarianism, at a time when the troubles were at there worst and sectrianism was rampant everywhere. 10-15 years to much but hardly a 'long history' when taken against the 100+ years that the ground has been in use, especially considering that it was only ever a small minority, even at it's worst.
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:29:43 AMInteresting Spin again, I never said anything about racist chants, thats more a soccer thing ;)
Jesus. Fecking. Cleary. Are you completely divorced from reality, or can you really not remember what you've just said?? ???
Apologies, just re-read my post, it was actually racist "comments" not "chants" I heard.
Simple mistake, dont think it qualifies me for a "divorce from reality" :o
Quote from: SammyG on August 02, 2007, 10:38:22 AM
Truely pathetic comment. WP has been in use for about 100 years, for about 10-15 of those years it had a problem with sectarianism, at a time when the troubles were at there worst and sectrianism was rampant everywhere. 10-15 years to much but hardly a 'long history' when taken against the 100+ years that the ground has been in use, especially considering that it was only ever a small minority, even at it's worst.
Even if what you say is true, a 10-15 year period is a long period of time. To compare this to Croke Park where there has never been an issue with sectarianism is very silly.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:29:43 AMInteresting Spin again, I never said anything about racist chants, thats more a soccer thing ;)
Jesus. Fecking. Cleary. Are you completely divorced from reality, or can you really not remember what you've just said?? ???
Apologies, just re-read my post, it was actually racist "comments" not "chants" I heard.
Simple mistake, dont think it qualifies me for a "divorce from reality" :o
With that clarified, simply replace 'chants' with 'comments' in my example. My point is the same.
And my reply would still be the same....
"And proves my point that these things happen everywhere occasionally and the perpetrators are idiots.
If you said you experienced it I would say that IF its true I fully condemn it.
I wouldnt blindy deny it never happened as thats impossible to prove!!"
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:29:43 AMInteresting Spin again, I never said anything about racist chants, thats more a soccer thing ;)
Jesus. Fecking. Cleary. Are you completely divorced from reality, or can you really not remember what you've just said?? ???
Apologies, just re-read my post, it was actually racist "comments" not "chants" I heard.
This doesn't change what I or I would imagine MW were getting at.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:43:07 AM
Quote from: SammyG on August 02, 2007, 10:38:22 AM
Truely pathetic comment. WP has been in use for about 100 years, for about 10-15 of those years it had a problem with sectarianism, at a time when the troubles were at there worst and sectrianism was rampant everywhere. 10-15 years to much but hardly a 'long history' when taken against the 100+ years that the ground has been in use, especially considering that it was only ever a small minority, even at it's worst.
Even if what you say is true, a 10-15 year period is a long period of time. To compare this to Croke Park where there has never been an issue with sectarianism is very silly.
5ivetimes claimed that the Billy Boys is sung at NI matches, then that "they" sang the Billy Boys at the Finland match. And based this claim on the "experience" of "his nephew".
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 02, 2007, 10:47:30 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:29:43 AMInteresting Spin again, I never said anything about racist chants, thats more a soccer thing ;)
Jesus. Fecking. Cleary. Are you completely divorced from reality, or can you really not remember what you've just said?? ???
Apologies, just re-read my post, it was actually racist "comments" not "chants" I heard.
This doesn't change what I or I would imagine MW were getting at.
Indeed.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:46:27 AM
And my reply would still be the same....
"And proves my point that these things happen everywhere occasionally and the perpetrators are idiots.
If you said you experienced it I would say that IF its true I fully condemn it.
I wouldnt blindy deny it never happened as thats impossible to prove!!"
I haven't tried to do that.
Quote from: Chrisowc on August 02, 2007, 10:49:14 AM
I haven't tried to do that.
I don't think anyone has stated definitively that it didn't happen, as hhnb will find if he reads back.
However, if 5ivetimes is going to try to justify his claim that the Billy Boys is sung at NI matches, then that "they" sang it at the Finland match because "his nephew" said so, by retreating to the claim a couple or a few people did, then that to me is pretty damn suspicious.
MW, I just already said ::)
And my reply would still be the same....
"And proves my point that these things happen everywhere occasionally and the perpetrators are idiots.
If you said you experienced it I would say that IF its true I fully condemn it.
I wouldnt blindy deny it never happened as thats impossible to prove!!"
Now regarding "5ivetimes claimed that the Billy Boys is sung at NI matches, then that "they" sang the Billy Boys at the Finland match. And based this claim on the "experience" of "his nephew" "
Why you are saying this to me I dont know, all I was saying was that its possible that "his nephew" (why are we using inverted commas? ;)) was telling the truth.
I didnt once agree nor disagree that the Billy Boys is sung at NI matches.
Therefore I really cant understand why you directed that at me :-\
Chris, did I say you have tried to do that?
MW and Sammy did. quite clearly.
5times ive ttaken many catholics to windosr in recent yers and all have had a good experience - including the night of the finland game.
As i said he may have heard something isolated, but it certainly wasnt all the crowd.
Id ask for some empathy - could you guarantee that at a Gaelic game or club i wouldnt hear anything untoward. Would you suggest that gaelic clubs are not welcoming for protestants.
Yes 5times, and i have been to gaa games and enjoyed them myselves.
Ive also heard a few ropy comments from some involved in GAA, but I try not to judge "them" and tar wall with the same brush.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 10:54:56 AM
MW, I just already said ::)
And my reply would still be the same....
"And proves my point that these things happen everywhere occasionally and the perpetrators are idiots.
If you said you experienced it I would say that IF its true I fully condemn it.
I wouldnt blindy deny it never happened as thats impossible to prove!!"
My response would be the same too, if it wasn't preceded by sweeping claims "they" indulge in this behaviour.
Quote
Now regarding "5ivetimes claimed that the Billy Boys is sung at NI matches, then that "they" sang the Billy Boys at the Finland match. And based this claim on the "experience" of "his nephew" "
Why you are saying this to me I dont know, all I was saying was that its possible that "his nephew" (why are we using inverted commas? ;)) was telling the truth.
I didnt once agree nor disagree that the Billy Boys is sung at NI matches.
Therefore I really cant understand why you directed that at me :-\
Because you don't seem to be grasping that even if there actually were two or three people trying to start a chant, that's very different from what 5ivetimes has claimed.
Quote
Chris, did I say you have tried to do that?
MW and Sammy did. quite clearly.
Where did I say that? ???
[/quote]
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 02, 2007, 11:00:02 AM
At the time of the NI Finland game, my nephew played for a team called Brookvale. I am sure most of the South Armagh and South Down posters know the team as it is a mixed team with both young Catholics and Protestants playing. In my day the team was run by Alan Black, the survivour of Kingsmill. So this was in no way a team of young taigs out looking to start trouble at Windsor. Before they went to the game they were also told not to wear any GAA or Celtic tops, though I think most of them would have been smart enough to realise that.
I clearly remember the game well and my sister was worried about him going to Windsor, but he wanted to see Sami Hyypia and he was allowed to go, just as he was allowed to go to Anfield with the same team and to the Milk Cup in Coleraine. When he came home he said he would never go to Windsor again as it was as bad if not worse than we had made out. He clearly mentioned the Billy Boys among others and I for one know he would not make something like that up. Wether or not it was the whole crowd or a tiny minority makes no difference,
Woah. Stop right there. Firstly, it makes a vast difference. Secondly, you didn't ask, and he didn't say? This is all very fishy. He says the Billy Boys was sung, undefined as to whether it was one person or ::) a thousand, and you decide to take that and run with it to claim "they" sing the Billy Boys at NI matches.
Where was he sitting, by the way. Did he remark on anything else about his experience of the match?
Quote
all I can say is that one 13 year old made his mind up there and then never to go back to Windsor Park. He still plays soccer, though now for Barcroft and they dont run trips to windsor.
For all the posters saying that this didnt happen, I would prefer to believe a teenager with no agenda rather than someone who believes that FFA has turned windsor form a place of sectarian hatred into midnight mass overnight.
I'd prefer to use the evidence witndessed by my own eyes and ears and scores of my NI-supporting friends, family and colleagues, than an poster on an internet board, with a bazlingly obvious axe to grind as witnessed plenty of times on that board, who claims his nephew witnessed some singing that he's unable to give any sort of detail about, and attempts to use this to tar the NI support.
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 11:36:27 AM
My response would be the same too, if it wasn't preceded by sweeping claims "they" indulge in this behaviour.
Quote
OK cut the bullshit, I was commenting purely on the possibility that what his nephew said MIGHT be possible, nothing more nothing less.
So stop dragging other comments into it.
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 11:36:27 AM
Because you don't seem to be grasping that even if there actually were two or three people trying to start a chant, that's very different from what 5ivetimes has claimed.
Quote
Jesus christ :o :o :o
I was commenting ONLY on what his nephew told him. His nephew told him he heard it sang, he didnt say by 100 or 2 people, just that he heard it sang. I'm not saying it was sang by more or is sang regularly or that it was even sang on that occasion!!!
Just that its possible that it happened. How many times do I need to clarify that!!!????
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 11:36:27 AM
Where did I say that? ???
Right here, plain as day ::)
"Well I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this claim is false"
"I'd prefer to use the evidence witndessed by my own eyes and ears and scores of my NI-supporting friends, family and colleagues, than an poster on an internet board, with a bazlingly obvious axe to grind "
As I'm sure 5Times would use evidence from his family member than a poster on an internet board, with a blazingly obvious axe to grind ;)
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 11:46:58 AM
Right here, plain as day ::)
"Well I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this claim is false"
Haha! Bingo! I just KNEW you'd post that, and chop the sentence apart. What I actually said was:
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 01, 2007, 05:58:22 PM
Well I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this claim is false, certainly in the way you presented it.
Bingo my hole ;)
Funny you didnt post what you said next, clarifying your claims that it did not, or more so could not happen.
It if makes you happy heres the entire post ::)
"Well I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this claim is false, certainly in the way you presented it. I was at the match and heard no such thing. Neither has anyone else I've ever spoken to who was at the match. And because you don't get these chants at NI matches anymore, and haven't for years, it's remarkable even when two or three idiots try to start them. People notice. It gets shouted down. It gets commented on extensively on OWC"
If this isnt denial that this happened, you are in denial yourself. ;)
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 02, 2007, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 11:36:27 AM
Because you don't seem to be grasping that even if there actually were two or three people trying to start a chant, that's very different from what 5ivetimes has claimed.
Nowhere did I say 2 or 3 people.
That would be why I said "that's very different from what 5ivetimes has claimed", FFS ::)
Quote
From what my nephew told me it was considerably more than that.
This is, I fear, where we get into the realms of jackanory. No-one else appears to have noticed this. Where was he sitting?
Quote
To me you sre defending the indefensible.
How so? I'm not defending sectarian singing. I've actively opposed it, in public, which for all I know is more than you've done. I'm actually tackling prejudice here - yours.
Quote
Windsor Park is a cold house for Catholics, it always has been, it always will. End of Story.
Ambiguous statement there. Windsor Park as a place, intrinsically? NI matches at Windsor? NI matches? What exactly do you mean, and why?
Quote
Where is Fearon when you need him.
You're doing a good job of 'Fearoning' in his absence, what with the tarring with one prush, the prejudice, and the suspicously fictional-sounding claims.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 01, 2007, 03:46:48 PM
NIFan will you be going to see the play? It is drama that often leads one to revise one's own prejudices etc. I can well understand why the IFA made tickets available for it on its own website.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 01, 2007, 04:42:14 PM
The only fictional thing is the main character turning away from bigotry, so you are quite right. That is an example of the writer using poetic licence as such a thing couldn't happen in real life.
Make your mind up Tony :D
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 11:58:29 AM
Bingo my hole ;)
Funny you didnt post what you said next, clarifying your claims that it did not, or more so could not happen.
It if makes you happy heres the entire post ::)
"Well I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this claim is false, certainly in the way you presented it. I was at the match and heard no such thing. Neither has anyone else I've ever spoken to who was at the match. And because you don't get these chants at NI matches anymore, and haven't for years, it's remarkable even when two or three idiots try to start them. People notice. It gets shouted down. It gets commented on extensively on OWC"
If this isnt denial that this happened, you are in denial yourself. ;)
Let me be absolutely clear. I am 100% rock solid denying that any sort of mass chanting of sectarian songs took place -
this would be completely untrue and anyone claiming so would be a liar.
I said it was within the realms of possibility that 2 or 3 people tried to get a chant started (have a look) but that it was likely this would have been commented on. I expressed scepticism of this given that this isn't what 5ivetimes is claiming.
QuoteWindsor Park is a cold house for Catholics, it always has been, it always will. End of Story.
All catholics? Who made you arbitrar of that.
As ive said i know catholics who regularly attend windsor - block bookers no less.
But you can know what it has been like, what it is like and what it always shall be like?
As for defending the indefensible, i dont believe ive ever condoned sectarianism in any form.
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:02:14 PM
[Let me be absolutely clear. I am 100% rock solid denying that any sort of mass chanting of sectarian songs took place - this would be completely untrue and anyone claiming so would be a liar.
Did ANYONE on here saying anything about mass chanting??? :-\
where did you pluck that one from?
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:02:14 PM
I said it was within the realms of possibility that 2 or 3 people tried to get a chant started (have a look) but that it was likely this would have been commented on. I expressed scepticism of this given that this isn't what 5ivetimes is claiming.
You did say this after saying the claim of the nephew was false (HAVE A LOOK), and after the point being made to you that it was possible that a small few did it. You couldnt but back down at that stage and admit it was possible.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:02:14 PM
[Let me be absolutely clear. I am 100% rock solid denying that any sort of mass chanting of sectarian songs took place - this would be completely untrue and anyone claiming so would be a liar.
Did ANYONE on here saying anything about mass chanting??? :-\
where did you pluck that one from?
Here:
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 02, 2007, 11:50:13 AM
Nowhere did I say 2 or 3 people. From what my nephew told me it was considerably more than that.
::)
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:02:14 PM
I said it was within the realms of possibility that 2 or 3 people tried to get a chant started (have a look) but that it was likely this would have been commented on. I expressed scepticism of this given that this isn't what 5ivetimes is claiming.
You did say this after saying the claim of the nephew was false (HAVE A LOOK), and after the point being made to you that it was possible that a small few did it. You couldnt but back down at that stage and admit it was possible.
[/quote]
No. I said 5ivetimes was bullshitting. I stand by that. When asked if I thought it was possible a small handful of people might have tried to chant something, I said it was possible - but expressed scepticism.
AFTER YOU SAID IT WAS FALSE !!!!!!!
For f**k sake can we get back to the play please, this is going nowhere ::)
You can win two tickets to see A Night in November as well as a meal for two before the show in Jurys Belfast, in a competition in to-day's Irish News! Guess whose postcard is already in the mailbox. I don't like watching rivetiing drama on an empty stomach ;D
Must enter that myself too Tony
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 02, 2007, 12:14:00 PM
OK, my nephew made the whole thing up. He wasnt asked not to wear his Celtic or GAA top, in fact he wore both, under hid RoI Jacket. He has just informed me that they didnt sing "the billy boys", in fact they sang "All Kinds of Everything" and Dana made an appearance at half time. I believe Gerry Adams sang God save the Queen, before the game and Nigel Dodds gave a perfect rendition of the Finnish Anthem, both anthems were respected and no booing was heard. There was even a game of Camogie between Newtonards and Ballysillan as a curtain raiser to the game and the local Muslim community who are so popular around the Donegall Rd and Village areas cooked free Kebabs for everyone on the night. In fact such a good night was had that he hasnt missed a game since and he has asked me if I could get him a new NI jersey for the upcoming friendly between Northern Irland and the Republic, it has been an annual event since Billy Bigot whipped the crowd into a frenzy when he thought they were going to deny the rerpublic a place at the World Cup. Alan McLaughlin will present the Trophy to the winning captain.
Yes, no doubt it is easier to retreat into this sort of nonsense than answer these questions -
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 11:41:42 AM
Where was he sitting, by the way. Did he remark on anything else about his experience of the match?
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 11:58:45 AM
Ambiguous statement there. Windsor Park as a place, intrinsically? NI matches at Windsor? NI matches? What exactly do you mean, and why?
Wonder why?
5times, if your nephew heard anything it was an isolated incident, and completely wrong.
My bug is your implication that this is common and we are all singing the billy boys with abandon.
Your general impression of NI games from the sum of your posts is a big prodfest, which annoys me.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 12:16:56 PM
AFTER YOU SAID IT WAS FALSE !!!!!!!
Said what was false? ??? 5ivetimes has never claimed there was a chant involved a two or three people.
Quote from: T Fearon on August 02, 2007, 12:17:47 PM
You can win two tickets to see A Night in November as well as a meal for two before the show in Jurys Belfast, in a competition in to-day's Irish News! Guess whose postcard is already in the mailbox. I don't like watching rivetiing drama on an empty stomach ;D
You must have seen quite a few riveting drama's then - eh Tony ;)
Quote from: nifan on August 02, 2007, 12:22:45 PM
5times, if your nephew heard anything it was an isolated incident, and completely wrong.
My bug is your implication that this is common and we are all singing the billy boys with abandon.
Your general impression of NI games from the sum of your posts is a big prodfest, which annoys me.
Spot on. That's where I'm coming from.
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 12:16:56 PM
AFTER YOU SAID IT WAS FALSE !!!!!!!
Said what was false? ??? 5ivetimes has never claimed there was a chant involved a two or three people.
Said the claims of 5times nephew was false!!
For f**k sake its like pulling teeth :o
I never said anything about how many people did it, I was referring to ONE SENTENCE and you drag a petty row on for an entire morning.
As per my last post, can we get back to the play please??? >:(
Full Back :D Walked into that one. However on a major diet currently, half a stone off in two weeks and a six pack by Xmas is the aim.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 12:32:28 PM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 12:16:56 PM
AFTER YOU SAID IT WAS FALSE !!!!!!!
Said what was false? ??? 5ivetimes has never claimed there was a chant involved a two or three people.
Said the claims of 5times nephew was false!!
For f**k sake its like pulling teeth :o
I never said anything about how many people did it, I was referring to ONE SENTENCE and you drag a petty row on for an entire morning.
As per my last post, can we get back to the play please??? >:(
I haven't said "the claims of 5times nephew" was false - I've said I think 5times himself is bullshitting. (to the extent even of inventing any sort of incident, I don't know).
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 12:32:28 PM
As per my last post, can we get back to the play please??? >:(
I thought wed done that - work of fiction, out of date, writter now a season ticket holder and travels to away games
its like a tony fearon dream which should be enough to put anyone off
Quote from: T Fearon on August 02, 2007, 12:35:17 PM
Full Back :D Walked into that one. However on a major diet currently, half a stone off in two weeks and a six pack by Xmas is the aim.
I seen you munching into a load of crap at the Ulster Final. Must do better Tony!!
Quote from: T Fearon on August 02, 2007, 12:35:17 PM
Full Back :D Walked into that one. However on a major diet currently, half a stone off in two weeks and a six pack by Xmas is the aim.
Fair play to you Tony
No offence, but you wouldnt think it from the photo 8)
Ah Jaysus I'm only two weeks into it FFS.
Ziggy you won't see me eating a any more crap, are you going to Croker on Saturday? I msu be turning into a Tyronie, having attended the Donegal, and Monaghan games and now Meath. If I had to pay 35 euros for the tickets though...
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:37:04 PM
I haven't said "the claims of 5times nephew" was false - I've said I think 5times himself is bullshitting. (to the extent even of inventing any sort of incident, I don't know).
This is f**king ridiculous, can you just drop it???
Quote from: T Fearon on August 02, 2007, 12:45:14 PM
Ah Jaysus I'm only two weeks into it FFS.
Ziggy you won't see me eating a any more crap, are you going to Croker on Saturday? I msu be turning into a Tyronie, having attended the Donegal, and Monaghan games and now Meath. If I had to pay 35 euros for the tickets though...
I shall be Tony. Will be in the Lower Cusack, at the back. What about yourself? No doubt in a Corporate Box.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 12:47:01 PM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 12:37:04 PM
I haven't said "the claims of 5times nephew" was false - I've said I think 5times himself is bullshitting. (to the extent even of inventing any sort of incident, I don't know).
This is f**king ridiculous, can you just drop it???
Sure. I stand by what I've said.
Quote from: ziggysego on August 02, 2007, 12:52:46 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on August 02, 2007, 12:45:14 PM
Ah Jaysus I'm only two weeks into it FFS.
Ziggy you won't see me eating a any more crap, are you going to Croker on Saturday? I msu be turning into a Tyronie, having attended the Donegal, and Monaghan games and now Meath. If I had to pay 35 euros for the tickets though...
I shall be Tony. Will be in the Lower Cusack, at the back. What about yourself? No doubt in a Corporate Box.
He would be a safety hazzard in the stands
Upper Hogan, Section 536, if anyone would like to say hello, wants an autograph etc.
Looking forward to a good auld digging match all the same ;D
Interesting reply from Mary Jones, on OWC
QuoteI have read your messages. I am the writer of Night in November. The play was written 15 years ago and was my response to sectarianism which was crippling our country and our future. There was no doubt that that night in November in Windsor was an overt display of sectarianism that shocked many people, north and south. Like the character in the play, decent genuine fans were also sickened an appalled. The play is not about the team or the fans, it is a self analysis. Although Kenneth McCallister ( the character in the play) was not singing or chanting he eventually realises that he is just as bitter and sectarian. His anger is with himself and not the boo boys at Windsor. In order to change he has to reassess his whole life which was informed by the way he was brought up what school he attended and what he thought. Windsor park was merely the catalyst for his journey As a writer, like most artists we try an hold up a mirror to our society, sometimes we fail sometimes we get it right. As an individual it is my responsibility not just to write about it but also to contribute to that change for the better.. Hence ( thanks to my son Darren) I have missed only one home match at Windsor Park since that fantastic 0-0 draw with Spain many years ago. I have been to Poland and Denmark and have booked for Spain and Sweden. For me the crack and entertainment is better than any night in the theatre that I have ever spent (including my own plays). I know many of you are saying the play is outdated. That would suggest that practically the whole canon of Irish Literature that deals with our political past is also outdated I prefer to call it history. History is what we have learnt from and the NI fans( of which I am proud to be one ) who silenced the bigots, are testimony to that fact. As for Paddy K, I cant comment on what he said to the press. All I know is that on stage he will be saying my words, and those words I can stand by.
See yis all at the next match
Whatever about the arguments over this play, it does sound quite interesting.
Who has actually seen it?
Who wouldnt go?
And is there plans for it to come down here?
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 01:58:18 PM
Whatever about the arguments over this play, it does sound quite interesting.
It isn't, it's about as much entertainment as watching paint dry
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 01:58:18 PM
Who has actually seen it?
Who wouldnt go?
Saw it the first time round and it was crap. Even ignoring all the lies (or poetic licence ;)) it just wasn't a very good play.
Quote from: SammyG on August 02, 2007, 02:04:01 PM
Even ignoring all the lies (or poetic licence ;))
but sure isnt it meant to be a work of fiction??
Why bother then saying it was lies??
I saw the Simpsons movie at the weekend, a feckin disgrace, none of that really happened >:(
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 02:20:21 PM
Quote from: SammyG on August 02, 2007, 02:04:01 PM
Even ignoring all the lies (or poetic licence ;))
but sure isnt it meant to be a work of fiction??
Why bother then saying it was lies??
I saw the Simpsons movie at the weekend, a feckin disgrace, none of that really happened >:(
Because those lies are repeated (by people like Fearon and 5Times) and treated as truth. I don't remember anybody writing to the papers to claim that the Simpsons was true.
Ok so because Tony writes in to the paper (if he did, I dont know) to say whats in the play is true, the writer of the play, even though she clearly says it was a work of fiction, is accused of telling lies?
:-\
I have seen the play and thought it was a powerful piece of theatre, and Dan Gordon in the lead role was immense (as I said previously Kielty has a huge challenge on his hands to carry this off). As the writer herself says, she was using the irrefutable shameful sectarian scenes at Windsor Park that evening to hold a mirror up to her own community. The play is not true in respect that no one called Kenneth Mc Allister went to that game and converted to follwing the real Ireland team to USA 1994, but the point is the shameful scenes at Windsor Park causing a fictional character to rethink his whole life, confront his sectarian bigotry and his misplaced superiority complex, all of which came across very well on stage. What the playwright was also trying to do was highlight the absurdity of using sport as a means of venting sectarian hatred, and to that extent Kenneth's joyous support for the Ireland team in the USA and the sheer fun and craic, contrast dramatically with his previous attendance at Windsor and the menacing atmosphere he witnesses there.
Marie Jones is like Susan Mc Kay, a courageous woman unafraid to confront the darker side of her own community and is to be commended.
In terms of OWC's constant bleating about this play they should adopt the Don't shoot the messenger attitude and confront the existing problems which is the lack of catholic support for the North of Ireland team and the reasons for this
Is it due to come down to Dublin anytime soon Tony?
Don't know, but I saw it there, in the Tivoli Theatre in Francis Street in the mid to late 1990s. It has been to London, Broadway etc so it may well return to Dublin, particularly if it is successful in Belfast
Sure Pop up to Newry on Sunday night on the new motorway, its only about an hour's journey in total. ;D
I live half way there Tony, I might just do that ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on August 02, 2007, 03:43:20 PM
What the playwright was also trying to do was highlight the absurdity of using sport as a means of venting sectarian hatred
Again Tony, there's a message for you in there...
Quote from: T Fearon on August 02, 2007, 03:43:20 PMMarie Jones is like Susan Mc Kay, a courageous woman unafraid to confront the darker side of her own community and is to be commended.
Did you read the quote from Marie Jones (a couple of posts ago)?
Quote from: T Fearon on August 02, 2007, 03:43:20 PM
In terms of OWC's constant bleating about this play they should adopt the Don't shoot the messenger attitude and confront the existing problems which is the lack of catholic support for the North of Ireland team and the reasons for this
What problems would they be Tony? And when has anybody tried to 'shoot the messenger' with regard to this play? I enjoyed 'Stones in His Pockets' but thought ANIN was shite, nothing to do with the messenger more to do with the fact that it was a load of sanctimonious claptrap and bigottry disguised as 'art'.
Sammy, the message of ANIN was true and irrefutable, just like the shameful display of sectarianism that night at Windsor Park, unprecedented at any sporting occasion in these isalnds. The message is plain and simple.
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 11:41:42 AM
I'd prefer to use the evidence witndessed by my own eyes and ears and scores of my NI-supporting friends, family and colleagues, than a poster on an internet board, with a bazlingly obvious axe to grind as witnessed plenty of times on that board, who claims his nephew witnessed some singing that he's unable to give any sort of detail about, and attempts to use this to tar the NI support.
5ivetimes has, among other things on another thread, just referred to the Northern ireland team as a "bigotted sectarian soccer team".
My point above is entirely vindicated.
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 04:27:05 PM
[5ivetimes has, among other things on another thread, just referred to the Northern ireland team as a "bigotted sectarian soccer team".
My point above is entirely vindicated.
yeah sure it is :D :D :D :D
Good of you to declare your own points "vindicated" ;)
Feck me he's really exposing his prejudices now:
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 02, 2007, 04:19:24 PM
Obviously Sammy & Co are burying their heads in the sand. They have been brough up on a diet of Sectarianism and dont actually realise that the "other side" have rights as well. They believe that Northern Ireland is a place run by Protestants, for Protestants. Catholics dont matter in their world.
Says it all really. Not exactly a leap of the imagination to see why someone with these extreme prejudcies would resort to bullshitting. Clase closed m'lud.
I didnt actuall read that MW, but reading it now I despair.
If thats what you think people like me think 5times your insane.
"case closed" ??
I love how you guys declare yourselves victors in these things.
Its sad really as you have deepened my concerns over the divide between both sides today.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 04:34:11 PM
"case closed" ??
I love how you guys declare yourselves victors in these things.
Its sad really as you have deepened my concerns over the divide between both sides today.
Any word to say about 5ivetimes' ranting at all? Nary a one? C'mon now.
I'm not the one who has labelled a sports team "bigotted sectarian" or gone on a rant about Protestants/Catholics. I abhor sectarianism and have worked against it in the real world.
Think carefully. Among the comments today, whose have seemed sectarian, bigotted or prejudiced? Who should you be giving your attention to as having "deepened your concerns"? And why have you automatically pointed in my direction rather than elsewhere?
Quote from: nifan on August 02, 2007, 04:32:31 PM
I didnt actuall read that MW, but reading it now I despair.
If thats what you think people like me think 5times your insane.
It's alarming and pretty disturbing. But forunately I know that anyone who knows anything about me would laugh at that comment.
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 04:38:30 PM
why have you automatically pointed in my direction rather than elsewhere?
Because I was launched upon earlier today by YOU and others when I suggested that there was a possibility that 5times nephews comments on windsor park just might somehow be true.
Dont be hypocritical about me condemning other peoples comments, you have sat idly by on previous occasions when Gweltyah was dishing out similar shite and didnt do a thing, now your acting the victim, give me a break ::)
I am not into sectarianism in any form, hence my condemnation of the abuse the Fermanagh player received.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 04:38:30 PM
why have you automatically pointed in my direction rather than elsewhere?
Because I was launched upon earlier today by YOU and others when I suggested that there was a possibility that 5times nephews comments on windsor park just might somehow be true.
No, I pointed out to you that your suggestion that a few people sang this could well have happened (though it was unlikely that it would have been completely unreported), but that this was not what 5ivetimes was claiming.
Quote
Dont be hypocritical about me condemning other peoples comments, you have sat idly by on previous occasions when Gweltyah was dishing out similar shite and didnt do a thing, now your acting the victim, give me a break ::)
It's one thing not jumping into every thread where someone's being a prejudiced p***k. But it's quite another to jump in and attack a person who's been on the receiving send of some quite frankly downright sectarian crap, and has made no such comments himself, and say
he is the one who mades you think the divide has deepened. What does that say to you?
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I wasnt "attacking" you because you were attacked yourself.
I made a simple point that it could possibly be true, you dont think it is, it should be left there.
But oh no, you are still going on about it ::)
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 04:51:31 PM
No, I pointed out to you that your suggestion that a few people sang this could well have happened (though it was unlikely that it would have been completely unreported)
You just posted this on another thread!!! ???
"I'm denying it happened because it didn't happen. I was there"
Make up your mind :-\
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 04:55:48 PM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 04:51:31 PM
No, I pointed out to you that your suggestion that a few people sang this could well have happened (though it was unlikely that it would have been completely unreported)
You just posted this on another thread!!! ???
"I'm denying it happened because it didn't happen. I was there"
Make up your mind :-\
Are you having a bad day? MW posts that you quote are about two different things. 5times claimed that the crowd were singing the Billy Boys, this is untrue, no question. You then asked was it possible that a few dickheads were singing and MW replied that it was possible but unlikely. To different answers to two different questions.
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 04:55:48 PM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 04:51:31 PM
No, I pointed out to you that your suggestion that a few people sang this could well have happened (though it was unlikely that it would have been completely unreported)
You just posted this on another thread!!! ???
"I'm denying it happened because it didn't happen. I was there"
Make up your mind :-\
Jesus H. Cleary. I've been through this with you about 8 times now, to the point where you asked me to stop.
5ivetimes' claim about the Billy Boys being sung by a significant number of people at the Finald match
are false. They are untrue. They are bullshit.
Your suggestion that a small handul of people (as I said, 2 or 3) could have tried to get a chant of this going is possible, and I wouldn't be in a position to completey rule it out - though has never been reported in relation to the Finland.
But these are two different things.
Quote from: SammyG on August 02, 2007, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 04:55:48 PM
Quote from: MW on August 02, 2007, 04:51:31 PM
No, I pointed out to you that your suggestion that a few people sang this could well have happened (though it was unlikely that it would have been completely unreported)
You just posted this on another thread!!! ???
"I'm denying it happened because it didn't happen. I was there"
Make up your mind :-\
Are you having a bad day? MW posts that you quote are about two different things. 5times claimed that the crowd were singing the Billy Boys, this is untrue, no question. You then asked was it possible that a few dickheads were singing and MW replied that it was possible but unlikely. To different answers to two different questions.
Precisely!
Sweet holy f**k, you are unbelievable :o :o
you have been caught out SEVERAL times today and still wont admit a single thing.
Pathetic, but at least you have Sammy to hold your hand, that must be some comfort ;)
Quote from: his holiness nb on August 02, 2007, 05:08:19 PM
Sweet holy f**k, you are unbelievable :o :o
you have been caught out SEVERAL times today and still wont admit a single thing.
'Caught out' how? I've exlplained to you umpteen times now that you and 5ivetimes were talking about different things. What he was claiming was untrue. What you were saying, hypothetically, was possible.
Just a reminder. A night in November, giving an insight into the sectarian mindset that pervades Windsor Park, is being staged tonight and Sunday night, at 8pm, in the Sean Hollywood Arts Centre Newry. Be there!