Not sure how old this news is but it's new to me...
Quote
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/refitted-back-door-opens-chances-of-repeat-clashes-in-qualifiers-30276248.html
An increase in the number of provincial rematches looks certain in this season's All-Ireland football qualifiers, arising from the installation of a new 'back door' mechanism.
Aimed at streamlining the qualifier system, the new structure will ensure that no county has to wait more than five weeks for a first round game, as opposed to six or seven under the old regime. The ultimate ambition is to reduce it to four weeks.
The new design will also give a more even spread of games and guarantee beaten provincial finalists a minimum of 13 days before their fourth round qualifier.
Consequently, the All-Ireland quarter-finals will be played over two weekends, rather one weekend as happened in the past.
The GAA's head of games Fergal McGill said the new system offered counties the opportunity to provide a more balanced club programme.
DIVIDED
Instead of 16 counties being placed in the same bowl for the first round qualifier draw, they will be divided into two groups of eight, depending on whether they were designated 'A' or 'B' side in their provincial draw.
The counties are divided as follows this year:
A: Fermanagh, Antrim, Derry, Donegal, Tipperary, Limerick, Cork, Galway, London, Sligo, Wicklow, Laois, Longford, Offaly, Wexford, Dublin.
B: Tyrone, Down, Armagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Clare, Waterford, Kerry, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Westmeath, Louth, Kildare, Carlow, Meath.
The eight counties from 'A' and 'B' who don't reach their provincial semi-finals will be in Round 1 of the qualifiers. Two draws will take place to provide four pairings from 'A' and 'B.' Teams in 'A' cannot be paired with teams in 'B.'
That division will continue throughout the qualifiers, so that counties know in advance which group they will join if eliminated from the provincial championships.
The division of counties into 'A' and 'B' greatly increases the likelihood of repeat pairings from the provinces, something that caused concern in the past.
There will be no restriction on provincial rematches in Rounds 1 and 2, but it will apply from there on.
"The new system makes provincial repeats more likely in the first two rounds – there's no doubt about that. But, in the overall scheme of things, there are a lot of advantages to the new system.
"It will probably take a year or two for people to get fully used to it, but once it settles in there will be clear benefits on a number of fronts," said McGill.
Does this mean group A teams can't meet group B teams until the 1/4 final?
Yes.
This is another mild "tweak" to avoid having a major review.
Pity about breaking up the Quarter Finals - it was always a great big earth shattering weekend of action.
Would it not be Semi-Final as these are the teams that are in the back door?
Now that you mention it..... probably is.
So the back door is now split in 2 teams from the A side will not be able meet teams from the B side and vice versa. It already looks likely there will be some cracking games in the back door this year especially on the B side of it.
Ah - another place to put this.
Saturday 21st June 2014
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 1A
Losers of: Derry v Donegal Fermanagh v Antrim Londain v Galway Limerick v Tipperary Wicklow v Laois(v Dublin) Longford v Offaly(v Wexford) to be drawn into four matches to take place on that day.
Saturday 28th June 2014
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 1B
Losers of: Armagh v Cavan Tyrone v Down(v Monaghan) Roscommon v Leitrim Clare v Waterford Westmeath v Louth(v Kildare) Carlow v Meath to be drawn into four matches to take place on that day.
Going to be great fun if the winners of Down/Tyrone lose to Monaghan, and then Down v Tyrone comes up in the first round of the qualifiers!
I don't understand why they allow repeat pairings in rounds 1 and 2.
As a Derry man I thought it was harsh that Down had to play us a second time last year after beating us in the Ulster Championship, that anomaly shouldn't exist.
I've never understood why repeat pairings are seen as a problem. If anything, they add spice and interest. People are still talking about the four games between Meath and Dublin 23 years ago.
Quote from: Hardy on May 22, 2014, 09:26:42 AM
I've never understood why repeat pairings are seen as a problem. If anything, they add spice and interest. People are still talking about the four games between Meath and Dublin 23 years ago.
That was replays not re-pairing. If you play a team and you can only draw then you of course should play again till you get a winner
IF you play a team and beat them, you shouldn't have to play them again until the final (or at least semi-final). Back door is one thing but giving a team a second go at you early on is unfair.
In the Down case we were asked to beat Derry twice and both away from home. Now that is a bit unfair, even most Derry fans admitted that if life was fair at the very least we should have been allowed to play the game in Newry. The draw system was a bad one but that is the luck of the draw and just tough luck.
I only mentioned Dublin-Meath to point out that there's a case to be made that repeat pairings generate excitement.
I still don't see the problem with playing a team you've already played. You have to play somebody. If you're going to get beaten, why does it matter which team the draw throws up to beat you?
If anything, shouldn't it be the team that lost the first match that's aggrieved, given that the other team has proven stronger? The team that won the first match should go into the rematch with more confidence against a team they've already beaten than against an unknown quantity.
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 22, 2014, 12:28:05 PM
IF you play a team and beat them, you shouldn't have to play them again until the final (or at least semi-final). Back door is one thing but giving a team a second go at you early on is unfair.
Why is it unfair? and why is it ok to play them in a Semi final?
You're making no sense here at all buicín.
People are always looking for "open draws" so if it's open then any pairing can come up.
QuoteThe counties are divided as follows this year:
A: Fermanagh, Antrim, Derry, Donegal, Tipperary, Limerick, Cork, Galway, London, Sligo, Wicklow, Laois, Longford, Offaly, Wexford, Dublin.
B: Tyrone, Down, Armagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Clare, Waterford, Kerry, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Westmeath, Louth, Kildare, Carlow, Meath.
The eight counties from 'A' and 'B' who don't reach their provincial semi-finals will be in Round 1 of the qualifiers. Two draws will take place to provide four pairings from 'A' and 'B.' Teams in 'A' cannot be paired with teams in 'B.'
Am I reading this correctly?
This means that the qualifiers cannot have the following fixtures:
Dublin v Meath;
Dublin v Kildare;
Cork v Kerry;
Mayo v Galway;
QuoteThat division will continue throughout the qualifiers
These fixtures are probably the most lucrative in the 3 less competitive provinces. Why would they want to prohibit the above fixtures occurring in the qualifiers?
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 03:39:26 PM
QuoteThe counties are divided as follows this year:
A: Fermanagh, Antrim, Derry, Donegal, Tipperary, Limerick, Cork, Galway, London, Sligo, Wicklow, Laois, Longford, Offaly, Wexford, Dublin.
B: Tyrone, Down, Armagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Clare, Waterford, Kerry, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Westmeath, Louth, Kildare, Carlow, Meath.
The eight counties from 'A' and 'B' who don't reach their provincial semi-finals will be in Round 1 of the qualifiers. Two draws will take place to provide four pairings from 'A' and 'B.' Teams in 'A' cannot be paired with teams in 'B.'
Am I reading this correctly?
This means that the qualifiers cannot have the following fixtures:
Dublin v Meath;
Dublin v Kildare;
Cork v Kerry;
Mayo v Galway;
QuoteThat division will continue throughout the qualifiers
These fixtures are probably the most lucrative in the 3 less competitive provinces. Why would they want to prohibit the above fixtures occurring in the qualifiers?
Wasn't this A and B thingy a proposal from the Management Committee to Congress and voted through?
It's said to be a way of making more time for Club Fixtures.
As usual wrong solution to the wrong problem ( a bit like "streamlining" the Championships by adding 4 games with Antrim Carlow and the like getting to be bet in 2 different Provinces).
Meanwhile the Connacht Championship - all 6 games takes from 4th May till 20th July and Ulster meanders along too with a game a week.....
Saturday 21st June 2014
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 1A
Losers of: Derry v Donegal Fermanagh v Antrim Londain v Galway Limerick v Tipperary Wicklow v Laois(v Dublin) Longford v Offaly(v Wexford)
Saturday 28th June 2014
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 1B
Losers of: Armagh v Cavan Tyrone v Down(v Monaghan) Roscommon v Leitrim Clare v Waterford Westmeath v Louth(v Kildare) Carlow v Meath
Will the draws for A and B be on the same day?
We will know the teams who are in section A by the 8th June, whereas it will be a week later before we know all the teams in section B
Given that "A" games are played on 21st June and "B" games are played on 28th June can we expect section A draw to be a week earlier?
Saturday 21st June 2014
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 1A
Losers of: Derry v Donegal Fermanagh v Antrim Londain v Galway Limerick v Tipperary Wicklow v Laois(v Dublin) Longford v Offaly(v Wexford)
Quote from: drici on June 01, 2014, 06:22:52 PM
Saturday 21st June 2014
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 1A
Losers of: Derry v Donegal Fermanagh v Antrim Londain v Galway Limerick v Tipperary Wicklow v Laois(v Dublin) Longford v Offaly(v Wexford)
Derry well able for anyone there, if they are up for it.
Quote from: southderryman on May 28, 2014, 11:47:32 AM
Will the draws for A and B be on the same day?
We will know the teams who are in section A by the 8th June, whereas it will be a week later before we know all the teams in section B
Given that "A" games are played on 21st June and "B" games are played on 28th June can we expect section A draw to be a week earlier?
Both draws for Round 1A and Round 1B are on this Monday - around 8-35am on RTÉ Radio 1.
First team drawn shall have home advantage.
Where two teams who have already met in the 2014 Provincial Championship and are drawn to meet, the winner of the earlier game in the Championship shall have home venue.
Except as provided for above, if a County did not have home advantage in the 1st Round of the 2013 Qualifier Series, it shall have Home Advantage in the 1st Round in 2014. In the event of both teams having played away in 2013 or both teams having played at home the first team drawn shall have home advantage.
Counties involved in Home Advantage rule.
1A Fermanagh Limerick Wicklow Laois*
1b Tyrone*
*(if they are in the draw)
Derry v Longford
Laois v Fermanagh
Limerick v Londain
Wicklow v Offaly
Louth v Monaghan/Tyrone
Cavan v Westmeath
Carlow/Meath v Clare/Waterford
Down v Leitrim
Down a home draw? It's a fix!
QuoteLouth v Monaghan/Tyrone
That's the best pairing so far.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 09, 2014, 09:06:53 AM
Down a home draw? It's a fix!
you're bound to be happy with that draw Aristo after the double journey to Celtic Pk last year !
Never, in the history of the word "f**k", was it used more appropriately by me than it was this morning.
Away to Derry!
f**k!
Never, in the history of the word "f**k", was it used more appropriately by me than it was this morning.
Away to Laois!
f**k!
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on June 09, 2014, 09:21:13 AM
Never, in the history of the word "f**k", was it used more appropriately by me than it was this morning.
Away to Derry!
f**k!
you'll be welcomed with open arms SS. Mind to stand behind the right fleg. We're a bit touchy about that kind of thing up in the North ;-)
Away to Cavan. Another short year, another manager gone (hopefully, the manager that is).
Quote from: FermGael on June 09, 2014, 09:44:01 AM
Never, in the history of the word "f**k", was it used more appropriately by me than it was this morning.
Away to Laois!
f**k!
you'll be welcomed with open arms FG. No problem with flags down here.
If you're hungry Shamrock Shore highly recommends the Chicken Hut take away at the Midway food court on the Abbeyleix Road.
Regarding the 2 pots of teams (A & B) were these drawn out or did something just mix and match them to keep a good geographical spread across the 2?.
Quote from: the goal was on on June 09, 2014, 11:39:58 AM
Regarding the 2 pots of teams (A & B) were these drawn out or did something just mix and match them to keep a good geographical spread across the 2?.
they are based on the timetable for the provincial games, I imagine.
Quote from: J OGorman on June 09, 2014, 09:21:03 AM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on June 09, 2014, 09:06:53 AM
Down a home draw? It's a fix!
you're bound to be happy with that draw Aristo after the double journey to Celtic Pk last year !
Aye I think we'd have taken that draw all day long ;)
Good draws for all the Ulster sides they should all progress to round two.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 09, 2014, 03:54:28 PM
Good draws for all the Ulster sides they should all progress to round two.
Laois v Fermanagh
Pure yer money where your mouth is Cap'n, that tie would make it a decent accumulator for the Obvious household.
The balls havent exactly thrown up a mouth watering class. Scrap that a and b shite quickly. Never been to Celtic Park, so at least we will see a bit of scenery anyway.
Quote from: panc56 on June 09, 2014, 09:37:31 PM
The balls havent exactly thrown up a mouth watering class. Scrap that a and b shite quickly. Never been to Celtic Park, so at least we will see a bit of scenery anyway.
Dividing it into A & B was never likely to improve the quality of the teams in the first round
Should be a stroll in the Park for all the Ulster Counties involved
Quote from: Syferus on June 09, 2014, 08:34:17 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 09, 2014, 03:54:28 PM
Good draws for all the Ulster sides they should all progress to round two.
Laois v Fermanagh
Pure yer money where your mouth is Cap'n, that tie would make it a decent accumulator for the Obvious household.
last year Donegal in poor shape bet Laois and Fermanagh bet Westmeath away. It could be decent accumulator.
Saturday June 21st
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1A
Limerick v London, Gaelic Grounds, 3pm
Laois v Fermanagh, O'Moore Park, 3.30pm
Derry v Longford, Celtic Park, 5pm
Wicklow v Offaly, Aughrim, 7pm
Saturday June 28th
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1B
Louth v Monaghan or Tyrone, Drogheda or Omagh, TBC
Cavan v Westmeath, Breffni Park, TBC
Carlow or Meath v Clare or Waterford, Dr Cullen Park or Pairc Tailteann, TBC
Down v Leitrim, Pairc Esler, TBC
Quote from: southderryman on June 10, 2014, 01:32:03 PM
Saturday June 21st
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1A
Limerick v London, Gaelic Grounds, 3pm
Laois v Fermanagh, O'Moore Park, 3.30pm
Derry v Longford, Celtic Park, 5pm
Wicklow v Offaly, Aughrim, 7pm
Saturday June 28th
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1B
Louth v Monaghan or Tyrone, Drogheda or Omagh, TBC
Cavan v Westmeath, Breffni Park, TBC
Carlow or Meath v Clare or Waterford, Dr Cullen Park or Pairc Tailteann, TBC
Down v Leitrim, Pairc Esler, TBC
3.30 Throw in on a Saturday.
What is the sense in having the throw in time so early?
Quote from: FermGael on June 10, 2014, 02:31:39 PM
Quote from: southderryman on June 10, 2014, 01:32:03 PM
Saturday June 21st
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1A
Limerick v London, Gaelic Grounds, 3pm
Laois v Fermanagh, O'Moore Park, 3.30pm
Derry v Longford, Celtic Park, 5pm
Wicklow v Offaly, Aughrim, 7pm
Saturday June 28th
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1B
Louth v Monaghan or Tyrone, Drogheda or Omagh, TBC
Cavan v Westmeath, Breffni Park, TBC
Carlow or Meath v Clare or Waterford, Dr Cullen Park or Pairc Tailteann, TBC
Down v Leitrim, Pairc Esler, TBC
3.30 Throw in on a Saturday.
What is the sense in having the throw in time so early?
Daft time. 7pm on Saturday would be ideal time for me.
There was this:
Saturday 21 June Football Qualifier 1530 RTÉ
http://gaago.rte.ie/fixtures.html
No mention of it happening yet.
Quote from: FermGael on June 10, 2014, 02:31:39 PM
Quote from: southderryman on June 10, 2014, 01:32:03 PM
Saturday June 21st
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1A
Limerick v London, Gaelic Grounds, 3pm
Laois v Fermanagh, O'Moore Park, 3.30pm
Derry v Longford, Celtic Park, 5pm
Wicklow v Offaly, Aughrim, 7pm
Saturday June 28th
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1B
Louth v Monaghan or Tyrone, Drogheda or Omagh, TBC
Cavan v Westmeath, Breffni Park, TBC
Carlow or Meath v Clare or Waterford, Dr Cullen Park or Pairc Tailteann, TBC
Down v Leitrim, Pairc Esler, TBC
3.30 Throw in on a Saturday.
What is the sense in having the throw in time so early?
Just so ye Ollsther Bucks would have something to complain about perhaps :-* :P
Laois v Kilkenny in the minor hurling semi final is after the Fermanagh game I think, so the Fermanagh boys can be thought a lesson in football first and then be shown how to play hurling.
Lets get this age old rivalry between Laois and Fermanagh in motion!
Derry get some luck with the home draws, Down twice last year, Cavan and Sligo. Donegal and Longford so far this year
Quote from: Dont Matter on June 10, 2014, 05:09:55 PM
.....so the Fermanagh boys can be thought a lesson in football ....
Dont Matter - you didn't take me up on previous offer of some work on the bog. Are you still free ? We could fit in some grammar lessons if it rains ;) C'mon Ballyfin !
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 10, 2014, 09:09:26 PM
Derry get some luck with the home draws, Down twice last year, Cavan and Sligo. Donegal and Longford so far this year
We've been very lucky this last 2 years with home draws, but over the piece its probably average enough with most other teams I'd say.
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 10, 2014, 09:09:26 PM
Derry get some luck with the home draws, Down twice last year, Cavan and Sligo. Donegal and Longford so far this year
But sure you have the U21's coming through Rodney. We've nahin!!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 11, 2014, 10:46:35 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 10, 2014, 09:09:26 PM
Derry get some luck with the home draws, Down twice last year, Cavan and Sligo. Donegal and Longford so far this year
But sure you have the U21's coming through Rodney. We've nahin!!
aye...put a cork in it Dave !
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on June 11, 2014, 12:37:39 AM
Quote from: Dont Matter on June 10, 2014, 05:09:55 PM
.....so the Fermanagh boys can be thought a lesson in football ....
Dont Matter - you didn't take me up on previous offer of some work on the bog. Are you still free ? We could fit in some grammar lessons if it rains ;) C'mon Ballyfin !
Sure I nearly have all me sods home and I wouldn't need lessons in anything from a simpleton. Up ya boy ya!
Quote from: southderryman on June 10, 2014, 01:32:03 PM
Saturday June 28th
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1B
Down v Leitrim, Pairc Esler,
Reported that 5 players incl the goalkeeper have departed the Laythrum panel. Obviously better things to do than spending 3 weeks training for the inevitable trimming :-\.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 12, 2014, 11:15:29 AM
Quote from: southderryman on June 10, 2014, 01:32:03 PM
Saturday June 28th
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1B
Down v Leitrim, Pairc Esler,
Reported that 5 players incl the goalkeeper have departed the Laythrum panel. Obviously better things to do than spending 3 weeks training for the inevitable trimming :-\.
Given that half Pairc Esler is in Armagh, the prospect of visiting there may have reminded Leitrim of Armagh's high scoring visit last year.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2014, 11:37:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 12, 2014, 11:15:29 AM
Quote from: southderryman on June 10, 2014, 01:32:03 PM
Saturday June 28th
All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers Round 1B
Down v Leitrim, Pairc Esler,
Reported that 5 players incl the goalkeeper have departed the Laythrum panel. Obviously better things to do than spending 3 weeks training for the inevitable trimming :-\.
Given that half Pairc Esler is in Armagh, the prospect of visiting there may have reminded Leitrim of Armagh's high scoring visit last year.
I must start more of my sentences with 'Given'.
Is that what the A & B pots are for?
To make it less likely Ulster and Leinster teams will play another team from the same province?
The A & B pots reflect the timing of games, as far as I understand.
I am completely lost here. How does the draw work after round 1? Is A/B forgot about and an open draw with losing semi finalists or will losing semi finalists be only allowed to play against teams from their original group e.g. if Monaghan lose to Armagh they'll have to play against a winner from group B?
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 16, 2014, 03:01:58 PM
I am completely lost here. How does the draw work after round 1? Is A/B forgot about and an open draw with losing semi finalists or will losing semi finalists be only allowed to play against teams from their original group e.g. if Monaghan lose to Armagh they'll have to play against a winner from group B?
Can Roscommon get Tyrone in Hyde Park again?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 16, 2014, 04:31:48 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 16, 2014, 03:01:58 PM
I am completely lost here. How does the draw work after round 1? Is A/B forgot about and an open draw with losing semi finalists or will losing semi finalists be only allowed to play against teams from their original group e.g. if Monaghan lose to Armagh they'll have to play against a winner from group B?
Can Roscommon get Tyrone in Hyde Park again?
Of course. You only get second year home advantage if you play R1 games in successive years and you played away the first year. Tyrone went to Tullamore in R1 last year so they get Louth in Omagh these year. They get no advantage in R2.
Quote from: Syferus on June 16, 2014, 05:27:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 16, 2014, 04:31:48 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 16, 2014, 03:01:58 PM
I am completely lost here. How does the draw work after round 1? Is A/B forgot about and an open draw with losing semi finalists or will losing semi finalists be only allowed to play against teams from their original group e.g. if Monaghan lose to Armagh they'll have to play against a winner from group B?
Can Roscommon get Tyrone in Hyde Park again?
Of course. You only get second year home advantage if you play R1 games in successive years and you played away the first year. Tyrone went to Tullamore in R1 last year do they get Louth in Onagh these year. They get no advantage in R2.
What happens if they get Monaghan after Armagh remove them from the Ulster championship?
Don't Monaghan get home advantage then as a result of winning the Provincial game?.
I presume if we're drawn away to one of the 6 Co teams ( please God not Tyrone again ) the game won't be played till Sunday 13th due to all the floots parading?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 09, 2014, 03:54:28 PM
Good draws for all the Ulster sides they should all progress to round two.
Quote from: Pangurban on June 09, 2014, 11:28:17 PM
Should be a stroll in the Park for all the Ulster Counties involved
Well done.
Can anybody please give an update as to who will be in pot A and B for next rounds.
Thanks in advance
As far as I recall:
Pot A
Limerick/Laois/Longford/Wicklow V Sligo/Antrim/Tipp and Wex (or Dub)
Pot B
TY/LH, WH/CN, WD/CW, DN/LM V Roscommon, Clare, Armagh or Monaghan, Meath or Kildare
Quote from: commonman on June 22, 2014, 09:10:51 PM
As far as I recall:
Pot A
Limerick/Laois/Longford/Wicklow V Sligo/Antrim/Tipp and Wex (or Dub)
Pot B
TY/LH, WH/CN, WD/CW, DN/LM V Roscommon, Clare, Armagh or Monaghan, Meath or Kildare
Wow! Some difference between Pot A and Pot B on both sides. Laois are the only team in Division 1 or 2 in Pot A.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 23, 2014, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: commonman on June 22, 2014, 09:10:51 PM
As far as I recall:
Pot A
Limerick/Laois/Longford/Wicklow V Sligo/Antrim/Tipp and Wex (or Dub)
Pot B
TY/LH, WH/CN, WD/CW, DN/LM V Roscommon, Clare, Armagh or Monaghan, Meath or Kildare
Wow! Some difference between Pot A and Pot B on both sides. Laois are the only team in Division 1 or 2 in Pot A.
The new system is working brilliantly in so many ways. Sligo lost their semi-final two weeks after us and they will play their next game a week before we do.
This shite has made the whole system even worse.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 23, 2014, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: commonman on June 22, 2014, 09:10:51 PM
As far as I recall:
Pot A
Limerick/Laois/Longford/Wicklow V Sligo/Antrim/Tipp and Wex (or Dub)
Pot B
TY/LH, WH/CN, WD/CW, DN/LM V Roscommon, Clare, Armagh or Monaghan, Meath or Kildare
Wow! Some difference between Pot A and Pot B on both sides. Laois are the only team in Division 1 or 2 in Pot A.
Yes there's a massive discrepancy, that continues all the way to the Quarter Finals. If i'm reading it correctly the two teams to emerge from Pot A play the Connacht and munster final losers and the two winners of those matches play the Connacht and munster winners. Mayo Galway Kerry Cork will all be fancying their chances of a last 8 appearance with the possibility of meeting a major power in the last 12 very much reduced. The other side much more of a lottery.
Further light shone here: Hoganstand.com analysis of the imbalance (http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=219083)
So if Kildare manage to get to a Leinster final and lose they face a f**k hard last 12 game and if they win that they face a 50/50 chance of playing Dublin again. I despair I really do.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 24, 2014, 11:52:42 PM
So if Kildare manage to get to a Leinster final and lose they face a f**k hard last 12 game and if they win that they face a 50/50 chance of playing Dublin again. I despair I really do.
It's a ball of shite. Adds absolutely nothing to the qualifier system Where did this idea come from? Anyone aware of who raised the motion at congress? Was the FRC involved?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 24, 2014, 11:52:42 PM
So if Kildare manage to get to a Leinster final and lose they face a f**k hard last 12 game and if they win that they face a 50/50 chance of playing Dublin again. I despair I really do.
I assume that the usual no provincial final repeats applies so Kildare would have a zero percent chance of meeting Dublin in an AIQF.
Quote from: Syferus on June 25, 2014, 12:53:52 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 24, 2014, 11:52:42 PM
So if Kildare manage to get to a Leinster final and lose they face a f**k hard last 12 game and if they win that they face a 50/50 chance of playing Dublin again. I despair I really do.
I assume that the usual no provincial final repeats applies so Kildare would have a zero percent chance of meeting Dublin in an AIQF.
You would expect but I didn't that caveat anywhere.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2014, 07:54:32 AM
Quote from: Syferus on June 25, 2014, 12:53:52 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 24, 2014, 11:52:42 PM
So if Kildare manage to get to a Leinster final and lose they face a f**k hard last 12 game and if they win that they face a 50/50 chance of playing Dublin again. I despair I really do.
I assume that the usual no provincial final repeats applies so Kildare would have a zero percent chance of meeting Dublin in an AIQF.
You would expect but I didn't that caveat anywhere.
QuoteThere will be no restriction on provincial rematches in Rounds 1 and 2, but it will apply from there on.
So I'd presume this also applies to AI QFs?
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 25, 2014, 12:10:14 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 24, 2014, 11:52:42 PM
So if Kildare manage to get to a Leinster final and lose they face a f**k hard last 12 game and if they win that they face a 50/50 chance of playing Dublin again. I despair I really do.
It's a ball of shite. Adds absolutely nothing to the qualifier system Where did this idea come from? Anyone aware of who raised the motion at congress? Was the FRC involved?
Was proposed by CC and passed by the Delegates at 2013 Congress. Was reported in all the media at the time.
I often wonder do GAA people ever read papers or listen to radio/tv or take anything in? ( This doesn't seem to apply to the more intelligent Connacht posters who are always well clued in - even Syfín and Larryin))
Go to a lot of threads here and there are always daft questions about when did that come in, who passed that etc, not to mention " there's no game on tv this weekend".
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2014, 10:26:44 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 25, 2014, 12:10:14 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 24, 2014, 11:52:42 PM
So if Kildare manage to get to a Leinster final and lose they face a f**k hard last 12 game and if they win that they face a 50/50 chance of playing Dublin again. I despair I really do.
It's a ball of shite. Adds absolutely nothing to the qualifier system Where did this idea come from? Anyone aware of who raised the motion at congress? Was the FRC involved?
Was proposed by CC and passed by the Delegates at 2013 Congress. Was reported in all the media at the time.
I often wonder do GAA people ever read papers or listen to radio/tv or take anything in? ( This doesn't seem to apply to the more intelligent Connacht posters who are always well clued in - even Syfín and Larryin))
Go to a lot of threads here and there are always daft questions about when did that come in, who passed that etc, not to mention " there's no game on tv this weekend".
Aware of the change and the theory at the time but looking at it in isolation for this season, it's a load of bollix. Will see how it pans out over the next few seasons if it's kept.
Agree with you Dinny.
One selling point was " Counties will know for sure when they will be playing". Sure they knew that anyway.
"More time for Club games" - how exactly?
Then we have the Prentyfia Connacht system where Sligo are "A"(earlier) and Ros are "B" (later).
Yet Ros v Rhus Semi was on 8th June while Sligo/Galway was on 21st. The Sligo's Round 2 game is 5th July while Ros' is 12th.
Jeeeeeeeeeeees.....
It's also breaking up the "Super" weekend where all 4 Quarters with their bloodletting were played over the Bank Holiday weekend.
It is a complete load of BS. The main reason (excuse) given was that it would allow the beaten provincial finalists more than a week to recover, therefore the pre scheduled Q/finals draws like we currently have.
The futility of it all will be evident over the next month, especially in the "A" group, with all due respect to other teams involved, the Q/finals on Sunday August 3rd will be Mayo/Galway V Kerry/Cork, pretty novel pairings don't you think. When the world cup hype dies down, some informed media pundits, (an oxymoron I know) will latch on to it.
It reeks of overkill/panic when trying to solve a simple problem, by making it worse. In footballing terms, it reminds me of John Maughan's efforts at replacing Dermot Flanagan in the All Ireland final in 1997.
The simple solution would be to play all championship games to a conclusion. It is something I have been saying for years, there is little or no excuse at this point, other than extra revenues. With all the excellent marketing of our games and concerts etc, paying off stadiums,this argument is nowhere near as strong as it was. What other sport I ask, allows their penultimate game, i.e. All-Ireland final to be a draw, I know tradition etc, but remember 40 years ago you still had the bishop, parish priest, local TD's throwing in the ball and then hightailing it to the sideline. It would also eliminate all the issues surround club football or the lack thereof. If the NFL in the US, can draw up a fixed schedule six months ahead of time, surely the GAA can. It would also allow a potential open draw/other championship format, while also keeping provincial championships.
Not to completely digress, but I was watching the end of the Tipperary V Limerick hurling game with my 15 year old daughter on line last month, just as the games finished , Ger Canning announced "and now Limerick go on to meet the winners of Cork and Clare in the Munster final in six weeks time" My daughter said "did he just say six weeks", I said "yes honey", her response "that's insane", my response "you are right".
No need to say anymore.
Quote from: joemamas on June 25, 2014, 02:10:51 PM
It is a complete load of BS. The main reason (excuse) given was that it would allow the beaten provincial finalists more than a week to recover, therefore the pre scheduled Q/finals draws like we currently have.
The futility of it all will be evident over the next month, especially in the "A" group, with all due respect to other teams involved, the Q/finals on Sunday August 3rd will be Mayo/Galway V Kerry/Cork, pretty novel pairings don't you think. When the world cup hype dies down, some informed media pundits, (an oxymoron I know) will latch on to it.
It reeks of overkill/panic when trying to solve a simple problem, by making it worse. In footballing terms, it reminds me of John Maughan's efforts at replacing Dermot Flanagan in the All Ireland final in 1997.
The simple solution would be to play all championship games to a conclusion. It is something I have been saying for years, there is little or no excuse at this point, other than extra revenues. With all the excellent marketing of our games and concerts etc, paying off stadiums,this argument is nowhere near as strong as it was. What other sport I ask, allows their penultimate game, i.e. All-Ireland final to be a draw, I know tradition etc, but remember 40 years ago you still had the bishop, parish priest, local TD's throwing in the ball and then hightailing it to the sideline. It would also eliminate all the issues surround club football or the lack thereof. If the NFL in the US, can draw up a fixed schedule six months ahead of time, surely the GAA can. It would also allow a potential open draw/other championship format, while also keeping provincial championships.
Not to completely digress, but I was watching the end of the Tipperary V Limerick hurling game with my 15 year old daughter on line last month, just as the games finished , Ger Canning announced "and now Limerick go on to meet the winners of Cork and Clare in the Munster final in six weeks time" My daughter said "did he just say six weeks", I said "yes honey", her response "that's insane", my response "you are right".
No need to say anymore.
how long between rounds of the FA Cup?
or Champions League knockout stages?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2014, 06:25:18 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 25, 2014, 02:10:51 PM
It is a complete load of BS. The main reason (excuse) given was that it would allow the beaten provincial finalists more than a week to recover, therefore the pre scheduled Q/finals draws like we currently have.
The futility of it all will be evident over the next month, especially in the "A" group, with all due respect to other teams involved, the Q/finals on Sunday August 3rd will be Mayo/Galway V Kerry/Cork, pretty novel pairings don't you think. When the world cup hype dies down, some informed media pundits, (an oxymoron I know) will latch on to it.
It reeks of overkill/panic when trying to solve a simple problem, by making it worse. In footballing terms, it reminds me of John Maughan's efforts at replacing Dermot Flanagan in the All Ireland final in 1997.
The simple solution would be to play all championship games to a conclusion. It is something I have been saying for years, there is little or no excuse at this point, other than extra revenues. With all the excellent marketing of our games and concerts etc, paying off stadiums,this argument is nowhere near as strong as it was. What other sport I ask, allows their penultimate game, i.e. All-Ireland final to be a draw, I know tradition etc, but remember 40 years ago you still had the bishop, parish priest, local TD's throwing in the ball and then hightailing it to the sideline. It would also eliminate all the issues surround club football or the lack thereof. If the NFL in the US, can draw up a fixed schedule six months ahead of time, surely the GAA can. It would also allow a potential open draw/other championship format, while also keeping provincial championships.
Not to completely digress, but I was watching the end of the Tipperary V Limerick hurling game with my 15 year old daughter on line last month, just as the games finished , Ger Canning announced "and now Limerick go on to meet the winners of Cork and Clare in the Munster final in six weeks time" My daughter said "did he just say six weeks", I said "yes honey", her response "that's insane", my response "you are right".
No need to say anymore.
how long between rounds of the FA Cup?
or Champions League knockout stages?
Mayo played on the 5th May, 51 days ago and have only played one game since. They have another 18 days till the next match.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2014, 06:25:18 PM
how long between rounds of the FA Cup?
or Champions League knockout stages?
Those teams are playing loads of other games in between times ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2014, 07:02:29 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2014, 06:25:18 PM
how long between rounds of the FA Cup?
or Champions League knockout stages?
Those teams are playing loads of other games in between times ;)
they are professionals though
GAA players are not, and should have club games to play (along with all the other club players)
definitely this new qualifier arrangement was not set up well.
it benefits some counties.
why not use seeding from the league standings, averaged over 3 years to determine the two pots in the first round qualifier draw? are the GAA frightened of seeding draws?
FA Cup weekends are every three weekends from the 3rd round (last 64) until the last eight (6th round). Then it's a 5 week break until the semi, and another 5 week break until the final. Just answering manfromdelmonte's question!
Can somebody tell me how home advantage is decided in the next round? I thought it was first team drawn out but I cant see how that will work if there's two bowls. E.g Bowl 1: Limerick/Laois/Longford/Wicklow V Bowl 2:Sligo/Antrim/Tipp and Wex (or Dub). They would have to pick from one of the bowls first to the detriment of counties in the other.
Dunno but they could use a third bowl with a home and away ball in it and draw that to apply to say the first bowl team??
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 25, 2014, 10:25:13 PM
Dunno but they could use a third bowl with a home and away ball in it and draw that to apply to say the first bowl team??
But since Sky arrived they are now called the second bowl and the Premier bowl respectively.
I hope we don't see Mayo in any bowl, super or otherwise.
Quote from: Dubhaltach on June 25, 2014, 10:22:46 PM
Can somebody tell me how home advantage is decided in the next round? I thought it was first team drawn out but I cant see how that will work if there's two bowls. E.g Bowl 1: Limerick/Laois/Longford/Wicklow V Bowl 2:Sligo/Antrim/Tipp and Wex (or Dub). They would have to pick from one of the bowls first to the detriment of counties in the other.
One from each bowl will be put into another bowl and first out of that is at Home.
Counties that have met before this year can meet again and whoever won the first game are at Home.
Wexford v Laois
Tipperary v Longford
Limerick v Antrim
Wicklow v Sligo
Carlow v Clare
Cavan v Roscommon
Tyrone v Armagh/Monaghan
Down v Kildare
Tyrone v Armagh in Omagh
Tyrone v Monaghan in Clones
Quote from: drici on June 30, 2014, 08:45:43 AM
Tyrone v Armagh in Omagh
Tyrone v Monaghan in Clones
Home advantage for Monaghan yet again. When are they ever going to move games away from that tip?
Quote from: CC1 on June 30, 2014, 08:49:43 AM
Quote from: drici on June 30, 2014, 08:45:43 AM
Tyrone v Armagh in Omagh
Tyrone v Monaghan in Clones
Home advantage for Monaghan yet again. When are they ever going to move games away from that tip?
Padraig fixing the draw ? Never. GAA would never do such a thing. If the GAA is about one thing, it's about transparency.
They can hardly play home Ulster games on Sat 12th July.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 30, 2014, 08:54:35 AM
They can hardly play home Ulster games on Sat 12th July.
The war is over. Play away.
Monaghan will play Tyrone in Clones because the team that won the provincial fixture automatically get home advantage if they are drawn together in the qualifiers.
After this round provincial rematches are not permitted.
Quote from: drici on June 30, 2014, 08:40:58 AM
Wicklow v Sligo
Does this mean the game is in Wicklow. I don't think we've had more than one home backdoor game in the last 10 years. This should be a close game.
The qualifier system favours the big teams. What's the point in the Louth's, Leitrims even taking part anymore ?. Change is needed.
Quote from: orangeman on June 30, 2014, 09:56:21 AM
The qualifier system favours the big teams. What's the point in the Louth's, Leitrims even taking part anymore ?. Change is needed.
Louth were a D2 team for years?!
Quote from: Syferus on June 30, 2014, 09:59:19 AM
Quote from: orangeman on June 30, 2014, 09:56:21 AM
The qualifier system favours the big teams. What's the point in the Louth's, Leitrims even taking part anymore ?. Change is needed.
Louth were a D2 team for years?!
We need a system that reflects where teams are at currently. Call it two tier or whatever but ask Leitrim etc if they enjoy the current system. The system serves well the bigger teams.
Quote from: orangeman on June 30, 2014, 10:26:00 AM
Quote from: Syferus on June 30, 2014, 09:59:19 AM
Quote from: orangeman on June 30, 2014, 09:56:21 AM
The qualifier system favours the big teams. What's the point in the Louth's, Leitrims even taking part anymore ?. Change is needed.
Louth were a D2 team for years?!
We need a system that reflects where teams are at currently. Call it two tier or whatever but ask Leitrim etc if they enjoy the current system. The system serves well the bigger teams.
Leitrim enjoy Connacht plenty. They can't keep their panel together after they get knocked out of it most years. A b-tier competition wouldn't change that, sure lads left before they even knew who they were playing.
Quote from: Syferus on June 30, 2014, 10:28:59 AM
Quote from: orangeman on June 30, 2014, 10:26:00 AM
Quote from: Syferus on June 30, 2014, 09:59:19 AM
Quote from: orangeman on June 30, 2014, 09:56:21 AM
The qualifier system favours the big teams. What's the point in the Louth's, Leitrims even taking part anymore ?. Change is needed.
Louth were a D2 team for years?!
We need a system that reflects where teams are at currently. Call it two tier or whatever but ask Leitrim etc if they enjoy the current system. The system serves well the bigger teams.
Leitrim enjoy Connacht plenty. They can't keep their panel together after they get knocked out of it most years. A n-tier competition wouldn't change that, sure lads left before they even knew who they were playing.
Dessie Dolan was saying Leitrim just can't keep them together. There has to be a better way.
The Tommy Murphy cup wasn't the solution. The question really would be why does there need to be a solution?
Maybe have a vote up front among teams(not after they see a draw) and they can "opt out" of qualifiers??
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2014, 10:40:15 AM
The Tommy Murphy cup wasn't the solution. The question really would be why does there need to be a solution?
Maybe have a vote up front among teams(not after they see a draw) and they can "opt out" of qualifiers??
What team would dare not even play? It would be a sham.
Whats the crack with the A and B shite. Is the draw seeded or something now?
Quote from: WT4E on June 30, 2014, 10:57:40 AM
Whats the crack with the A and B shite. Is the draw seeded or something now?
Hallo! Welcome to 2014.
Quote from: Syferus on June 30, 2014, 10:43:41 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2014, 10:40:15 AM
The Tommy Murphy cup wasn't the solution. The question really would be why does there need to be a solution?
Maybe have a vote up front among teams(not after they see a draw) and they can "opt out" of qualifiers??
What team would dare not even play? It would be a sham.
Well based on all the flak they're getting - Leitrim!
There's nothing wrong with the qualifiers as they are in my view. If teams at that level want to win stuff then they have leagues they can win.
The fixture calendar is bad enough without more congestion on it.
I'd like to see a change in how the championship is structured as I'd like to see far more competitive games throughout the summer.
I'd be in favour in limiting the championship to 16 teams split into 4 groups of 4. Everyone plays each other home and away. Top team in each group goes into a semi final or the top 2 qualify for a quarter final with home advantage for the group winner. The bottom team in each group would play in a relegation play off against each other with 2 teams to get relegated.
Similar setup to get promoted into the championship with both finalists would gain entry into the championship.
Every county has at least 6 games and something to play for.
It depends on what you want out of the Championship though, I want to see far more competitive games and this is one way to ensure it.
The simple truth of the matter is that the GAA structures favour the strong. The Qualifiers are a GAA solution to a simple problem. As usual it's complicated and panders to the every exception to every rule.
There is only one way to run any competition in sport - every team must have the same progression path to the Final.
In times gone by the Provincial title was the only route to the All Ireland. And despite the unequal numbers in the provinces it was fairer - you had to win your own province to proceed and the provincial title in it's own right was a coveted prize.
If the GAA were truly democratic the All ireland series would be either open draw or champions league style. End of story.
As regards counties like the Division 4 teams, indeed maybe all teams outside of the top 12 or so; terrible damage is being done by the constant appointment of outside managers resulting in no development of internal coaches and knowledge.
The counties who are doing best generally have local managers with passion and have structures that ensure the best players are encouraged and want to play for their county.
Unfortunately some of our County Board officers, who have the power and responsibility, are so out of their depth it's not funny.
We've been through this 100 times before.
I'd propose that any thoughts or proposals on reshaping the competitions, have to first address these issues:
1. It's not possible for 32 teams to be competitive, in any sport. Therefore giving every team multiple chances to exit and return, is little more than prolonging a competition for the sake of it, and has a negative impact on competitiveness and spectator interest.
2. Until such times as county players can gain "elite" status, thereby allowing them to step aside from club/university/underage championship demands without fear of demonisation, then it's just not practical to remodel county competitions to create more games at that level.
Quote from: Catch and Kick on June 30, 2014, 11:36:41 AM
Unfortunately some of our County Board officers, who have the power and responsibility, are so out of their depth it's not funny.
I find it a bit disturbing that you'd lay the blame at the feet of county board officers. They may have influence, but they do not actually have control.
The All Ireland series has to be open to all counties to enter. It's the ALL Ireland. There are plenty of tournaments with 32 teams that are competitive.
County Board officers are the leaders in all counties. The Executive usually gets it's own way. Unless it has real leaders who are above club politics it gets bogged down and we end up with no direction, no vision and no ambition. This is especially true in counties with no tradition of success, thanks to the lob sided nature of GAA competitions.
The lobsided draw has become even more lobsided (is there a word for that?).
But that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Quote from: Catch and Kick on June 30, 2014, 11:49:21 AM
County Board officers are the leaders in all counties. The Executive usually gets it's own way. Unless it has real leaders who are above club politics it gets bogged down and we end up with no direction, no vision and no ambition. This is especially true in counties with no tradition of success, thanks to the lob sided nature of GAA competitions.
It's interesting that you'd blame the structure of competitions for a lack of success by counties.
Wales haven't qualified a World Cup in 60 years, even though smaller nations with less resources than them have. Should they blame FIFA? What about Chesterfield FC: almost 100 years in the football league proper, but not having played top-flight football for a single season. Is that the FA's fault?
If your county team has a history of failure, you should start looking in one place and one place only: at your clubs. It's only when a) your clubs are developing and nurturing talent, and b) those same clubs encourage and demand those players into county football, that you can start looking elsewhere for people "to blame".
Quote from: Catch and Kick on June 30, 2014, 11:36:41 AM
The simple truth of the matter is that the GAA structures favour the strong. The Qualifiers are a GAA solution to a simple problem. As usual it's complicated and panders to the every exception to every rule.
There is only one way to run any competition in sport - every team must have the same progression path to the Final.
In times gone by the Provincial title was the only route to the All Ireland. And despite the unequal numbers in the provinces it was fairer - you had to win your own province to proceed and the provincial title in it's own right was a coveted prize.
Can't understand how you say the old system was fairer than the current system.
Current system is absolutely fair. Every team gets one chance to win their province, then one chance to win the All Ireland. The further you go in your provincial championship the later you enter the All Ireland series.
In terms of evening up the provinces, numberswise, I'd allow Leinster and Ulster counties elect to join either Connacht or Munster until its 8 each. First come first served, but you must make an irrevocable committment to stay in your new province for 5 years - including minor and U21 level.
Or if all the Leinster and Ulster counties want to stay where they are, then fine, let them all stay, and everyone can shut up with the moaning.
A simple answer to this ongoing issue is as follows: Have 8 groups of 4 teams and seed teams based on what league division they finish in each year. New York (and Kilkenny) would play in a qualifier vs division 4 opposition to enter the "group phase". The 16 teams who finish in 3rd and 4th position in each of the 8 groups would play for the All-Ireland "B" championship while the 16 teams who finish in 1st and 2nd position in each of the 8 groups would play for the Sam Maguire.
Quote from: PatDaly on June 30, 2014, 01:11:19 PM
A simple answer to this ongoing issue is as follows: Have 8 groups of 4 teams and seed teams based on what league division they finish in each year. New York (and Kilkenny) would play in a qualifier vs division 4 opposition to enter the "group phase". The 16 teams who finish in 3rd and 4th position in each of the 8 groups would play for the All-Ireland "B" championship while the 16 teams who finish in 1st and 2nd position in each of the 8 groups would play for the Sam Maguire.
That would be fair.
Quote from: PatDaly on June 30, 2014, 01:11:19 PM
A simple answer to this ongoing issue is as follows: Have 8 groups of 4 teams and seed teams based on what league division they finish in each year. New York (and Kilkenny) would play in a qualifier vs division 4 opposition to enter the "group phase". The 16 teams who finish in 3rd and 4th position in each of the 8 groups would play for the All-Ireland "B" championship while the 16 teams who finish in 1st and 2nd position in each of the 8 groups would play for the Sam Maguire.
All Ireland B doesnt work. Seen as a losers competition, so nobody gives a hoot - that's proven.
The only way a B would work would be to make it like county club championships. Split into senior, inter and junior, and the only way you move up is by winning the championship you are in.
An inter All Ireland would be worth winning, would give rise to huge celebrations (like any team that wins their county inter championship) and would have a big reward.
But would the likes of Sligo, Offaly, Wicklow, Cavan, Westmeath, Roscommon, Antrim agree to forego their (very slim) chance of winning Sam to go into the All Ireland Inter championship instead?
Quote from: Hound on June 30, 2014, 01:29:50 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on June 30, 2014, 01:11:19 PM
A simple answer to this ongoing issue is as follows: Have 8 groups of 4 teams and seed teams based on what league division they finish in each year. New York (and Kilkenny) would play in a qualifier vs division 4 opposition to enter the "group phase". The 16 teams who finish in 3rd and 4th position in each of the 8 groups would play for the All-Ireland "B" championship while the 16 teams who finish in 1st and 2nd position in each of the 8 groups would play for the Sam Maguire.
All Ireland B doesnt work. Seen as a losers competition, so nobody gives a hoot - that's proven.
The only way a B would work would be to make it like county club championships. Split into senior, inter and junior, and the only way you move up is by winning the championship you are in.
An inter All Ireland would be worth winning, would give rise to huge celebrations (like any team that wins their county inter championship) and would have a big reward.
But would the likes of Sligo, Offaly, Wicklow, Cavan, Westmeath, Roscommon, Antrim agree to forego their (very slim) chance of winning Sam to go into the All Ireland Inter championship instead?
Probably wouldn't unless there was a route to the Sam for the winners/finalists.
While we await that perhaps a staged Qualifier system e.g FA Cup in Soccer:-
Seed the 24 teams who don't make the Provincial Finals based on their League position.
Round 1 - 8 games between the 16 lowest seeds either open or 2 pots ( 1 with seeds 9 to 16, the other with seeds 17 to 24)
Round 2 -8 winners of Round 1 v seeds 1-8.
Round 3 -winners of round 2 and then as at present.
Quote from: Catch and Kick on June 30, 2014, 01:21:50 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on June 30, 2014, 01:11:19 PM
A simple answer to this ongoing issue is as follows: Have 8 groups of 4 teams and seed teams based on what league division they finish in each year. New York (and Kilkenny) would play in a qualifier vs division 4 opposition to enter the "group phase". The 16 teams who finish in 3rd and 4th position in each of the 8 groups would play for the All-Ireland "B" championship while the 16 teams who finish in 1st and 2nd position in each of the 8 groups would play for the Sam Maguire.
That would be fair.
I would certainly agree with that too. Just to further illustrate the lack of equality in the current system ......
In Ulster Tyrone played the prelim round against Down (Match 1) ... (that's part of an unfair situation in Ulster that year on year allow the teams who have played the prev Prelimary round back into the first part of the Draw for the following years Championship)
Because of a replay ... no one fault there ... Tyrone beat Down (Match 2)
Ulster quarter final Tyrone get beat by Monaghan (Match 3)
Now in the qualifiers Tyrone play Armagh or Monaghan (not again !! Match 4)
And low and behold the winners of above (Match 5 if Tyrone) next game is against either Kerry (who have
YET to play a match in) or Clare
Where is the equality in that system !!!!! (I do know it is the most extreme but never the less real scenario)
Did kerry not beat clare??
Quote from: Real Talk on June 30, 2014, 10:06:10 PM
Quote from: Catch and Kick on June 30, 2014, 01:21:50 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on June 30, 2014, 01:11:19 PM
A simple answer to this ongoing issue is as follows: Have 8 groups of 4 teams and seed teams based on what league division they finish in each year. New York (and Kilkenny) would play in a qualifier vs division 4 opposition to enter the "group phase". The 16 teams who finish in 3rd and 4th position in each of the 8 groups would play for the All-Ireland "B" championship while the 16 teams who finish in 1st and 2nd position in each of the 8 groups would play for the Sam Maguire.
That would be fair.
I would certainly agree with that too. Just to further illustrate the lack of equality in the current system ......
In Ulster Tyrone played the prelim round against Down (Match 1) ... (that's part of an unfair situation in Ulster that year on year allow the teams who have played the prev Prelimary round back into the first part of the Draw for the following years Championship)
Because of a replay ... no one fault there ... Tyrone beat Down (Match 2)
Ulster quarter final Tyrone get beat by Monaghan (Match 3)
Now in the qualifiers Tyrone play Armagh or Monaghan (not again !! Match 4)
And low and behold the winners of above (Match 5 if Tyrone) next game is against either Kerry (who have YET to play a match in) or Clare
Where is the equality in that system !!!!! (I do know it is the most extreme but never the less real scenario)
Match 4 would be tyrone v louth
Quote from: time ticking away on June 30, 2014, 11:23:37 PM
Quote from: Real Talk on June 30, 2014, 10:06:10 PM
Quote from: Catch and Kick on June 30, 2014, 01:21:50 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on June 30, 2014, 01:11:19 PM
A simple answer to this ongoing issue is as follows: Have 8 groups of 4 teams and seed teams based on what league division they finish in each year. New York (and Kilkenny) would play in a qualifier vs division 4 opposition to enter the "group phase". The 16 teams who finish in 3rd and 4th position in each of the 8 groups would play for the All-Ireland "B" championship while the 16 teams who finish in 1st and 2nd position in each of the 8 groups would play for the Sam Maguire.
That would be fair.
I would certainly agree with that too. Just to further illustrate the lack of equality in the current system ......
In Ulster Tyrone played the prelim round against Down (Match 1) ... (that's part of an unfair situation in Ulster that year on year allow the teams who have played the prev Prelimary round back into the first part of the Draw for the following years Championship)
Because of a replay ... no one fault there ... Tyrone beat Down (Match 2)
Ulster quarter final Tyrone get beat by Monaghan (Match 3)
Now in the qualifiers Tyrone play Armagh or Monaghan (not again !! Match 4)
And low and behold the winners of above (Match 5 if Tyrone) next game is against either Kerry (who have YET to play a match in) or Clare
Where is the equality in that system !!!!! (I do know it is the most extreme but never the less real scenario)
Match 4 would be tyrone v louth
Yes my mistake your right and of course Kerry beat Clare
Just stating the fact that Tyrone's next game is at the same stage as Clare
Here's a suggestion.......(This will get shot down I'm sure, but I don't think I've seen anyone else suggest anything similar!)
Scrap the qualifiers as they are. Keep the AI Q-finals as they are at present (or revert to last year's format where all q-finals were on August bank holiday weekend).
Each province to have 2 representatives in AI q-finals (Provincial winners plus 1 other from each province)
The one other from each province to be determined by a back door in your own province.
So for example, in Leinster Dublin or meath (whoever wins the final) would go to AI q-final and the loser of Dublin/meath would go into 'the Leinster qualifier series'.
The earlier a team is knocked out of a provincial championship the more games they would have to play to get through to AI q-final. So in the case of Dublin/meath, the loser would have just one game to play to get into AI q-final.
Benefits: provincial systems maintained; better chance for weaker teams to get to AI q-final (e.g. one victory over cork/kerry could be enough to get clare/tipperary to AI Q-final)
Negatives: Still an element of unfairness (i.e. strong teams in weak provinces have 2 chances at an easy route to AI q-final)
Quote from: westbound on July 01, 2014, 09:40:02 AM
Here's a suggestion.......(This will get shot down I'm sure, but I don't think I've seen anyone else suggest anything similar!)
Scrap the qualifiers as they are. Keep the AI Q-finals as they are at present (or revert to last year's format where all q-finals were on August bank holiday weekend).
Each province to have 2 representatives in AI q-finals (Provincial winners plus 1 other from each province)
The one other from each province to be determined by a back door in your own province.
So for example, in Leinster Dublin or meath (whoever wins the final) would go to AI q-final and the loser of Dublin/meath would go into 'the Leinster qualifier series'.
The earlier a team is knocked out of a provincial championship the more games they would have to play to get through to AI q-final. So in the case of Dublin/meath, the loser would have just one game to play to get into AI q-final.
Benefits: provincial systems maintained; better chance for weaker teams to get to AI q-final (e.g. one victory over cork/kerry could be enough to get clare/tipperary to AI Q-final)
Negatives: Still an element of unfairness (i.e. strong teams in weak provinces have 2 chances at an easy route to AI q-final)
1. Why on earth do we want weaker teams in an AI quarter final?
2. Why on earth would you address the unequal nature of the provincial system by giving it greater emphasis?
Not trying to be rude, but this is one of the daftest posts I've seen on the board.
Funnily enough I actually would favour a system closer to this, which would be that each province runs their own championship and runs a backdoor within that. For example, the Ulster SFC might be run along the lines of three groups of three, where every team plays two group matches. Two of the group winners go straight into the semi-finals, the three runners-up and the weakest group winner goes into quarters, play knockout from there and All Ireland semi-finals as before.
Connacht and Munster could play two groups of three with semi-finals, and Leinster play 4/4/3, with the top 3/3/2 qualifying for quarters, or 2/2/2 where the winners of the four team groups go straight into the semis, if they want more edge to the group games.
The advantages that I can see are:
(1) Teams train to win a provincial title. As things stand now, what happens is that counties who might phone it in for the qualifiers might maintain their interest if what they see as an attainable goal is still on the table.
(2) The games can be run off quicker and more teams would be knocked out earlier, which makes it easier for club games to be played.
(3) The provincial councils would be happy with this and would play along, unlike any other changes which dilute the importance of the provincial championships.
(4) You'd restore the importance and significance to provincial finals and semi-finals, since they would be win or bust games.
You'd lose the novelty of backdoor games between opponents that don't normally meet in championship, but for every game like Longford vs Cavan or Donegal vs Sligo, you currently get ten games that are similar to Down vs Leitrim last weekend at the moment. No history between the sides, no contest, nothing to it. I think that's a small price to pay.
I don't think the consistency required in that system to win a provincial title is in any way more attainable than navigating the current Qualifier system.
The appeal of the provincials for counties like Leitrim is that maybe they can catch a better county on the hop, that's impossible if that county has multiple fail-safes, they'll probably just end up still bettering or beating the minnow.
But if you're a Leitrim or a Waterford, it's still a lot easier to believe that you might just have one good day in that system than in the qualifiers, where you'd need to have the best day of your life four of five times to win a trophy.
To take the example of the Connacht football championship up until maybe this year when Roscommon have become something of a force, teams like Leitrim or Sligo realistically just needed one good day and this system allows them to continue believing in that. Once Leitrim were horsed into the qualifiers, their route to an All Ireland quarter final (not even a trophy, mind!) might have involved beating Down, Kildare, Tyrone and Monaghan. That's way harder than winning any Connacht title.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 01, 2014, 09:49:37 AM
Quote from: westbound on July 01, 2014, 09:40:02 AM
Here's a suggestion.......(This will get shot down I'm sure, but I don't think I've seen anyone else suggest anything similar!)
Scrap the qualifiers as they are. Keep the AI Q-finals as they are at present (or revert to last year's format where all q-finals were on August bank holiday weekend).
Each province to have 2 representatives in AI q-finals (Provincial winners plus 1 other from each province)
The one other from each province to be determined by a back door in your own province.
So for example, in Leinster Dublin or meath (whoever wins the final) would go to AI q-final and the loser of Dublin/meath would go into 'the Leinster qualifier series'.
The earlier a team is knocked out of a provincial championship the more games they would have to play to get through to AI q-final. So in the case of Dublin/meath, the loser would have just one game to play to get into AI q-final.
Benefits: provincial systems maintained; better chance for weaker teams to get to AI q-final (e.g. one victory over cork/kerry could be enough to get clare/tipperary to AI Q-final)
Negatives: Still an element of unfairness (i.e. strong teams in weak provinces have 2 chances at an easy route to AI q-final)
1. Why on earth do we want weaker teams in an AI quarter final?
2. Why on earth would you address the unequal nature of the provincial system by giving it greater emphasis?
Not trying to be rude, but this is one of the daftest posts I've seen on the board.
Ha Ha, I expected to be shot down, just not quite as bluntly as that!!! :P
The reality of the situation is, to solve the 'problem' it first must be agreed what the problem is!
Is the problem that the best teams don't get to the latter stages of the championship?
Is the problem that the best teams DO get to the latter stages of the championship?
What constitutes a 'fair' championship? - one where every team plays the same no. of games? One where every team has an equal chance of winning? One where the best team always wins?
If everybody answered these questions honestly, we could have very different views as to what the problem is, and therefore getting a solution will be extremely difficulty!
Quote from: Lone Shark on July 01, 2014, 11:44:40 AM
But if you're a Leitrim or a Waterford, it's still a lot easier to believe that you might just have one good day in that system than in the qualifiers, where you'd need to have the best day of your life four of five times to win a trophy.
To take the example of the Connacht football championship up until maybe this year when Roscommon have become something of a force, teams like Leitrim or Sligo realistically just needed one good day and this system allows them to continue believing in that. Once Leitrim were horsed into the qualifiers, their route to an All Ireland quarter final (not even a trophy, mind!) might have involved beating Down, Kildare, Tyrone and Monaghan. That's way harder than winning any Connacht title.
But you've rolled province and qualifier into one - they have a far better chance winning a provincial title now than they would under that system.
I agree with you on this westbound. We need to understand what the problem is before we can fix it.
I would think the major problem, unfortunately, is the desire to maintain a 32 team top tier.
In order to have any hope of progressing in Gaelic Football, you need unusually high fitness levels. If you don't, you'll be found out immediately. So even the weakest teams are forced to commit themselves to rigorous and extensive training regimes. The top-ranked teams knock their bollocks in, and so do the bottom-ranked teams.
The problem for the bottom teams is that almost every year, after exiting the Championship before July, the question has to arise about whether the effort is worth the reward. Which ultimately is why the back door system came to fruition, as previously half the counties in Ireland were done by June. Ironically, I would believe all the back door has actually done is reinforce to lower-ranked teams that they aren't good enough.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 01, 2014, 01:09:50 PM
The problem for the bottom teams is that almost every year, after exiting the Championship before July, the question has to arise about whether the effort is worth the reward. Which ultimately is why the back door system came to fruition, as previously half the counties in Ireland were done by June. Ironically, I would believe all the back door has actually done is reinforce to lower-ranked teams that they aren't good enough.
Revenue wasn't a driver then?
Quote from: theskull1 on July 01, 2014, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 01, 2014, 01:09:50 PM
The problem for the bottom teams is that almost every year, after exiting the Championship before July, the question has to arise about whether the effort is worth the reward. Which ultimately is why the back door system came to fruition, as previously half the counties in Ireland were done by June. Ironically, I would believe all the back door has actually done is reinforce to lower-ranked teams that they aren't good enough.
Revenue wasn't a driver then?
I don't actually believe it was about revenue, so much as an attempt to keep players happy and involved.
It was about making sure teams got more than ONE game in high Summer and to ensure that the closing stages avoided the kind of one sided Semi final hammerings that were administered to weak Provincial champions down the years.
Mind you the 4 quarter Finals generate a fair few oul €s while the 24 Qualifier games more than pay their way.
Any new system will HAVE to keep the Provincials but what weight will winning/being runners up in these carry into whatever All Ireland system comes about?
Too much weighting means that the Provincial strait jacket remains and gives Cork/Kerry/Dublin an easy route to the last 8 or 12 and screws the Ulster teams.
Too little weighting and the Provincials become just warmer uppers for the "real" Championship which will mean the Provincial Councils will probably stop any dimunition of their Empires.
Weak Counties say they don't want to be consigned to a B/2nd tier, yet some of them just about fulfil their Qualifier fixtures and get the deserved hammering.
The great Dont Matter has already came up with the most radical and fantastical new system possible. It's just that others do not have the brain power to compute what they're reading.
The National league would now be like the old championship. It would have the Leinster, Munster, Connacht and Ulster championships. The winners from each would go into the Division one National league semi finals and the final to find out who's the Division one champions.
The 4 beaten provincial finalists would go into a semi final and final to decide the Division 2 champions.
The 8 beaten provincial semi finalists would be split into two groups of 4. The top team in each group would play a final to decide the division 3 champions.
The 16 teams beaten in their provincial quarter final would be split into 4 groups of 4. Top teams in every group go into a semi final and then a final to decide the division 4 champions.
With this system we still have the Provincial championships and 4 divisions in the national league.
Then we move onto the championship which would be an open draw with all 30 something counties in it, first round, second round, quarter finals, semi finals and final. Every team would have to win the same amount of matches to become All Ireland champs and it's knock out, no back door system.
Quote from: Dont Matter on July 01, 2014, 01:42:43 PM
The great Dont Matter has already came up with the most radical and fantastical new system possible. It's just that others do not have the brain power to compute what they're reading.
The National league would now be like the old championship. It would have the Leinster, Munster, Connacht and Ulster championships. The winners from each would go into the Division one National league semi finals and the final to find out who's the Division one champions.
The 4 beaten provincial finalists would go into a semi final and final to decide the Division 2 champions.
The 8 beaten provincial semi finalists would be split into two groups of 4. The top team in each group would play a final to decide the division 3 champions.
The 16 teams beaten in their provincial quarter final would be split into 4 groups of 4. Top teams in every group go into a semi final and then a final to decide the division 4 champions.
With this system we still have the Provincial championships and 4 divisions in the national league.
Then we move onto the championship which would be an open draw with all 30 something counties in it, first round, second round, quarter finals, semi finals and final. Every team would have to win the same amount of matches to become All Ireland champs and it's knock out, no back door system.
Haha, talk about trying to solve a problem by making it more complicated.
Personally I can't wait to see the effort that the players and supporters put into the division 4 league group containing Antrim, Waterford, Leitrim and Carlow. Winning your way through that truly would be the pinnacle of those players' careers.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 01, 2014, 01:51:48 PM
Haha, talk about trying to solve a problem by making it more complicated.
Personally I can't wait to see the effort that the players and supporters put into the division 4 league group containing Antrim, Waterford, Leitrim and Carlow. Winning your way through that truly would be the pinnacle of those players' careers.
What's division 4 like now?
Quote from: Dont Matter on July 01, 2014, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 01, 2014, 01:51:48 PM
Haha, talk about trying to solve a problem by making it more complicated.
Personally I can't wait to see the effort that the players and supporters put into the division 4 league group containing Antrim, Waterford, Leitrim and Carlow. Winning your way through that truly would be the pinnacle of those players' careers.
What's division 4 like now?
It's an opportunity to build, even over a couple of seasons, a team capable of playing division 3. It's not a punishment for losing a provincial championship tie.
Anyway, there's a worse scenario than the one above. Cork beat Kerry in R1 of Munster. So Kerry end up in a group with Leitrim, Antrim and Waterford. Whoever wins that group can go on to become DIVISION FOUR CHAMPIONS!!!!!
Craic.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 01, 2014, 02:00:25 PM
It's an opportunity to build, even over a couple of seasons, a team capable of playing division 3. It's not a punishment for losing a provincial championship tie.
Anyway, there's a worse scenario than the one above. Cork beat Kerry in R1 of Munster. So Kerry end up in a group with Leitrim, Antrim and Waterford. Whoever wins that group can go on to become DIVISION FOUR CHAMPIONS!!!!!
Craic.
Cork and Kerry are kept apart in Munster, even if they weren't they could only meet in the semi finals. These different divisions could actually be used for seeding for the championship draw. Would make every game important as coming bottom of your group in division 4 would give you a much harder championship game.
Quote from: Dont Matter on July 01, 2014, 02:08:21 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 01, 2014, 02:00:25 PM
It's an opportunity to build, even over a couple of seasons, a team capable of playing division 3. It's not a punishment for losing a provincial championship tie.
Anyway, there's a worse scenario than the one above. Cork beat Kerry in R1 of Munster. So Kerry end up in a group with Leitrim, Antrim and Waterford. Whoever wins that group can go on to become DIVISION FOUR CHAMPIONS!!!!!
Craic.
Cork and Kerry are kept apart in Munster, even if they weren't they could only meet in the semi finals. These different divisions could actually be used for seeding for the championship draw. Would make every game important as coming bottom of your group in division 4 would give you a much harder championship game.
So as well as being seeded within their provincial championship, Kerry and Cork could never be placed lower than Division 3, and would therefore basically gain a bye through the first round of the Championship (when they'd be guaranteed to meet one of the (lower seeded) bottom 16 teams)?
what the opposite of Robin Hood?
----
As for makes every game important, no it doesn't. If there's 32 teams in the Championship, that means the 16 D4 sides would each have to play one the 16 higher-ranked teams in round 1. So league games in D4 don't matter for Championship.
So to surmise, if you lose in the first round of your provincial championship, not only would a) you be punished with an extended run of league games against crap opposition in D4, but b) you would be unseeded for the AI Championship. That's a bit sh1t by anyone's standards.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 01, 2014, 02:26:18 PM
So as well as being seeded within their provincial championship, Kerry and Cork could never be placed lower than Division 3, and would therefore basically gain a bye through the first round of the Championship (when they'd be guaranteed to meet one of the (lower seeded) bottom 16 teams)?
what the opposite of Robin Hood?
----
As for makes every game important, no it doesn't. If there's 32 teams in the Championship, that means the 16 D4 sides would each have to play one the 16 higher-ranked teams in round 1. So league games in D4 don't matter for Championship.
So to surmise, if you lose in the first round of your provincial championship, not only would a) you be punished with an extended run of league games against crap opposition in D4, but b) you would be unseeded for the AI Championship. That's a bit sh1t by anyone's standards.
I knew the genius of Dont Matters new league and championship plan would fly right over the heads of the mere mortals.
Cork or Kerry could have no seeding then, if they lose early it's their problem, like teams in any other Province.
There'd be 4 seeds. 8 or so in each. Provincial finalists are first seeds, beaten Provincial semi finalists are second seeds, the top two in each of the division 4 groups are third seeds and the bottom 2 are 4th seeds. It doesn't have to be seeded it's just an extra great bit of thinking thrown in for free.
If you're knocked out in the first round of your provincial championship then you're not good enough to play in division 3 or higher, just like if you're in division 4 now and can't get out, it's because you're not good enough. You still have the championship to come and potentially you could be playing division one football the year after.
Teams lose matches, I'm afraid there's no system that will get away from that.
Did you just refer to yourself in the third person.
Dont Matter doesn't answer to any aul brick.
Leitrim on the way out???
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=219651
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2014, 04:55:35 PM
Leitrim on the way out???
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=219651
They'd do anything to not play us.
If Leitrim did Mulligan really should feck off to another county because it would be ridiculous to have a player of his quality stuck in the junior championship.
Quote from: Syferus on July 02, 2014, 05:35:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2014, 04:55:35 PM
Leitrim on the way out???
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=219651
They'd do anything to not play us.
If Leitrim did Mulligan really should feck off to another county because it would be ridiculous to have a player of his quality stuck in the junior championship.
Sure he already did that! He plays for St Brigids in Dublin now.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 02, 2014, 05:55:35 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 02, 2014, 05:35:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2014, 04:55:35 PM
Leitrim on the way out???
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=219651
They'd do anything to not play us.
If Leitrim did Mulligan really should feck off to another county because it would be ridiculous to have a player of his quality stuck in the junior championship.
Sure he already did that! He plays for St Brigids in Dublin now.
And he's working in Longford, living in Dublin and training in Leitrim.
To be honest it's the highest level of competition (read: not being kicked off the field) that someone in his position can aim for. I'd like to see the Dublin Brigids go on a run, if only for the fact it'd mean he might actually play in Croke Park for the first time.
Where would this leave other teams around Leitrim's (or below's) level though??
Can anyone confirm if the backdoor 3rd round draw will be held tomorrow (Monday July 7th)? The Round 3A games are scheduled to be played next Saturday July 12th.
http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/gaa-football-all-ireland-senior-championship/
The draw will involve the following teams playing against each other
Round 3A - Saturday July 12th
1. Laois
2. Sligo
3. Tipperary
4. Limerick
Round 3B - Saturday July 19th and Sunday July 20th
1. Cavan or Roscommon
2. Carlow or Clare
3. Down or Kildare
4. Tyrone or Armagh
Home advantage for 1st out
Sligo v Limerick
Laois v Tipperary
3A Draw this morning
Sligo V Limerick
Laois V Tipperary.
This 3A & 3B draw craic is another needless mess, WTF like?
Quote from: God14 on July 07, 2014, 10:13:02 AM
This 3A & 3B draw craic is another needless mess, WTF like?
To be honest it's actually an improvment schedule wise though it has turned out lop-sided in terms of streength of teams involved.
Lads, just merged the Qualifier topics rather than adding another one for Round 3. I've renamed the thread - Football Qualifiers 2014
Delighted to finally get a home game
Am I right to assume in the 1/4 finals Kerry can only be drawn against either one of the 3 other provincial runners up (i.e. not Cork) or one of the teams coming through the A side (Sligo, Limerick, Laois, Tipperary) or will the whole A, B thing have disappeared by then?
Quote from: blanketattack on July 07, 2014, 12:44:38 PM
Am I right to assume in the 1/4 finals Kerry can only be drawn against either one of the 3 other provincial runners up (i.e. not Cork) or one of the teams coming through the A side (Sligo, Limerick, Laois, Tipperary) or will the whole A, B thing have disappeared by then?
Or Mayo/Galway, depending on who loses the Connacht final. A and B sides remain in R4.
Quote from: Syferus on July 07, 2014, 01:02:03 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 07, 2014, 12:44:38 PM
Am I right to assume in the 1/4 finals Kerry can only be drawn against either one of the 3 other provincial runners up (i.e. not Cork) or one of the teams coming through the A side (Sligo, Limerick, Laois, Tipperary) or will the whole A, B thing have disappeared by then?
Or Mayo/Galway, depending on who loses the Connacht final. A and B sides remain in R4.
Incorrect, Kerry will only play losers on Connaught final, or whoever may beat them in last round of B qualifiers, i.e Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary. The winners of connaught will play Cork or whoever may beat them in last round of B qualifiers, i.e, Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary
In my opinion, it is a total coc* up of a draw, if I were the CEO of the GAA, I would fire the people who somehow bullshitted people into how this was more attractive than previous years, In theory it allows the beaten provincial finalists more than a week off, but aside from that, it is in my mind an own goal. Why you may ask,
1. It has taken away August Bank Holiday as the true beginning of the championship, when the four quarter final were held.
2. It could have a dramatic effect on the attendance for Q/final on that weekend now Kerry V one of the above mentioned, coupled with lets say Mayo v one of the above, it could prove to be the lowest attendance for a Q/final double header since the backdoor was introduced, as I doubt Kerry or Cork (should they qualify )people will travel in big numbers. You will have Kerry V (Galway/Mayo) or /Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary and Mayo(galway) V Cork/Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary.
There may be some red faces in Croke Park on that Sunday, whereas it should have marketed as the kick off to the closing stages of the Ireland series.
3. In Previous years, when four Finals were on same weekend the GAA could mix and match to get a decent attendance, not this year, as leinster V Ulster q/finals are set for Saturday evening August 9th.
4. Part of theory of all of this was to have some definite schedule, what if last round of qualifiers ends in a draw, that goes out the window.
5. Finally, who decided what teams went into qualifiers A and B, it is most lopsided I have ever seen.
Quote from: joemamas on July 07, 2014, 01:31:18 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 07, 2014, 01:02:03 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 07, 2014, 12:44:38 PM
Am I right to assume in the 1/4 finals Kerry can only be drawn against either one of the 3 other provincial runners up (i.e. not Cork) or one of the teams coming through the A side (Sligo, Limerick, Laois, Tipperary) or will the whole A, B thing have disappeared by then?
Or Mayo/Galway, depending on who loses the Connacht final. A and B sides remain in R4.
Incorrect, Kerry will only play losers on Connaught final, or whoever may beat them in last round of B qualifiers, i.e Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary. The winners of connaught will play Cork or whoever may beat them in last round of B qualifiers, i.e, Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary
In my opinion, it is a total coc* up of a draw, if I were the CEO of the GAA, I would fire the people who somehow bullshitted people into how this was more attractive than previous years, In theory it allows the beaten provincial finalists more than a week off, but aside from that, it is in my mind an own goal. Why you may ask,
1. It has taken away August Bank Holiday as the true beginning of the championship, when the four quarter final were held.
2. It could have a dramatic effect on the attendance for Q/final on that weekend now Kerry V one of the above mentioned, coupled with lets say Mayo v one of the above, it could prove to be the lowest attendance for a Q/final double header since the backdoor was introduced, as I doubt Kerry or Cork (should they qualify )people will travel in big numbers. You will have Kerry V (Galway/Mayo) or /Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary and Mayo(galway) V Cork/Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary.
There may be some red faces in Croke Park on that Sunday, whereas it should have marketed as the kick off to the closing stages of the Ireland series.
3. In Previous years, when four Finals were on same weekend the GAA could mix and match to get a decent attendance, not this year, as leinster V Ulster q/finals are set for Saturday evening August 9th.
4. Part of theory of all of this was to have some definite schedule, what if last round of qualifiers ends in a draw, that goes out the window.
5. Finally, who decided what teams went into qualifiers A and B, it is most lopsided I have ever seen.
I get what you mean but right now it's not incorrect. Kerry can end up playing anyone but Cork. It will be narrowed down only when the R3 winners and Connacht final losers are known.
It is a total mess of a change and really makes the GAA look amateurish in the worst possible way. How something so fundamental didn't have more over-sight is pretty amazing. I have to imagine this format's goose is already cooked for next year.
Quote from: Syferus on July 07, 2014, 01:49:00 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 07, 2014, 01:31:18 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 07, 2014, 01:02:03 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 07, 2014, 12:44:38 PM
Am I right to assume in the 1/4 finals Kerry can only be drawn against either one of the 3 other provincial runners up (i.e. not Cork) or one of the teams coming through the A side (Sligo, Limerick, Laois, Tipperary) or will the whole A, B thing have disappeared by then?
Or Mayo/Galway, depending on who loses the Connacht final. A and B sides remain in R4.
Incorrect, Kerry will only play losers on Connaught final, or whoever may beat them in last round of B qualifiers, i.e Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary. The winners of connaught will play Cork or whoever may beat them in last round of B qualifiers, i.e, Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary
In my opinion, it is a total coc* up of a draw, if I were the CEO of the GAA, I would fire the people who somehow bullshitted people into how this was more attractive than previous years, In theory it allows the beaten provincial finalists more than a week off, but aside from that, it is in my mind an own goal. Why you may ask,
1. It has taken away August Bank Holiday as the true beginning of the championship, when the four quarter final were held.
2. It could have a dramatic effect on the attendance for Q/final on that weekend now Kerry V one of the above mentioned, coupled with lets say Mayo v one of the above, it could prove to be the lowest attendance for a Q/final double header since the backdoor was introduced, as I doubt Kerry or Cork (should they qualify )people will travel in big numbers. You will have Kerry V (Galway/Mayo) or /Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary and Mayo(galway) V Cork/Sligo/limerick/laois/tipperary.
There may be some red faces in Croke Park on that Sunday, whereas it should have marketed as the kick off to the closing stages of the Ireland series.
3. In Previous years, when four Finals were on same weekend the GAA could mix and match to get a decent attendance, not this year, as leinster V Ulster q/finals are set for Saturday evening August 9th.
4. Part of theory of all of this was to have some definite schedule, what if last round of qualifiers ends in a draw, that goes out the window.
5. Finally, who decided what teams went into qualifiers A and B, it is most lopsided I have ever seen.
I get what you mean but right now it's not incorrect. Kerry can end up playing anyone but Cork. It will be narrowed down only when the R3 winners are known.
It is a total mess of a change and really makes the GAA look amateurish in the worst possible way. How something do fundamental didn't have more over-sight is pretty amazing. I have to imagine this format's goose is already cooked for next year.
I believe I may be correct on this one as if you look at Gaa schedule for Saturday August
http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/
Looks like Sligo v. Limerick is at 4pm Saturday in Markievicz.
Sligo will have played three championship games since we last played.
Madness.
have any of the times for saturday/sunday been confirmed by GAA yet?
Yeah. Another Tipperary double header, this time in Portlaoise.
Footballers v Laois at 4.45 pm
Hurlers v Offaly (gulp) at 7pm
Quote from: westbound on July 07, 2014, 02:49:33 PM
have any of the times for saturday/sunday been confirmed by GAA yet?
http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/0707141427-upcoming-championship-fixture-details/
FOOTBALL QUALIFIER FIXTURE DETAILS
Saturday, July 12
AllIreland Senior Football Championship Round 3A Qualifiers
Sligo v Limerick, Markievicz Park, 4pm
Laois v Tipperary, O'Moore Park, Portlaoise, 4.45pm
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 2B Qualifier
Cavan v Roscommon, Breffni Park, 6pm
Sunday, July 13
All Ireland Senior Football Championship Round 2B Qualifiers
Down v Kildare, Páirc Esler, 2pm
Carlow v Clare, Dr. Cullen Park, 2pm
Tyrone v Armagh, Omagh, 3pm
Thanks Drici
Quote from: Syferus on July 07, 2014, 02:49:06 PM
Sligo will have played three championship games since we last played.
Madness.
+1.
Quote from: snoopdog on June 30, 2014, 05:06:53 PM
hi guys,
How much was it in to Omagh on Saturday.
In Newry yesterday they charged 13 GBP for stand and Terrace. I thought it was strange that they only had the one price, surely the terrace should be cheaper? io asked why that was and they said ask the Ulster council. Just wanted to confirm if it was the same at Omagh.
Looks like it jumps from 13 quid/15 Euros for Round 2 General Admission to 18 quid/20 Euros for Round 3 games.
https://secure.tickets.ie/Listing/EventInformation/19658/gaa-football-all-ireland-qualifier-rd-3a-sligo-v-limerick-markievicz-park-sligo-12-July-2014
https://secure.tickets.ie/Booking/EventTickets/19658/gaa-football-all-ireland-qualifier-rd-3a-sligo-v-limerick-markievicz-park-sligo-12-July-2014
The Qualifiers have been an unmitigated f**k up this year.
PREDICTIONS
HOME WINS FOR ALL EXCEPT SLIGO AND CAVAN:
Sligo v Limerick, - LIMERICK (Sligo seem to be at a low ebb)
Laois v Tipperary, - LAOIS (Home advantage swings it in favour of Laois)
Cavan v Roscommon, - ROSCOMMON (Roscommon look like they could go places in the next couple of years, Cavan without Mackey)
Down v Kildare, Páirc Esler, - DOWN (Kildare on the way down)
Carlow v Clare, Dr. Cullen Park, CARLOW (Home advantage...neither will get beyond next match)
Tyrone v Armagh, Omagh, - TYRONE (Unfair short turnaround for Armagh)
Quote from: babarino on July 09, 2014, 08:30:24 PM
PREDICTIONS
HOME WINS FOR ALL EXCEPT SLIGO AND CAVAN:
Sligo v Limerick, - LIMERICK (Sligo seem to be at a low ebb)
Laois v Tipperary, - LAOIS (Home advantage swings it in favour of Laois)
Cavan v Roscommon, - ROSCOMMON (Roscommon look like they could go places in the next couple of years, Cavan without Mackey)
Down v Kildare, Páirc Esler, - DOWN (Kildare on the way down)
Carlow v Clare, Dr. Cullen Park, CARLOW (Home advantage...neither will get beyond next match)
Tyrone v Armagh, Omagh, - TYRONE (Unfair short turnaround for Armagh)
Wouldn't fancy that Limerick side at all. Besides Offaly they were the most lifeless team we faced in D3 this year. Really loose and really slow to react. At home it's hard to look past Sligo. They won't hand in as limb a display as they did in their last match at Markievicz.
Sligo v Limerick, - SLIGO (Home advantage to swing a game that could go either way)
Laois v Tipperary, - LAOIS (Home advantage to swing a game that also could go either way, Tipp are on the way up though)
Cavan v Roscommon, - ROSCOMMON (Roscommon, though I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Cavan nicked a low scoring game)
Down v Kildare, Páirc Esler, - KILDARE (Hard to justify this selection but I just think Kildare are capable of pretty big things)
Carlow v Clare, Dr. Cullen Park, CLARE (The only lock this weekend, Carlow are the worst team in Ireland and Clare are definitely not, should win handy)
Tyrone v Armagh, Omagh, - TYRONE (Tyrone are simply better at the moment and the short turn around means there should be no surprises)
Barbarino was surprised that Cavan beat Westmeath. Whatever he predicts back the opposite.
Quote from: Itchy on July 09, 2014, 10:11:43 PM
Barbarino was surprised that Cavan beat Westmeath. Whatever he predicts back the opposite.
I'd say I'm not the only one Itch that was surprised Cavan beat Westmeath. But without Mackey I just can't see you do it against the Rossies. Plus, unlike yourselves, Roscommon have shown potential to convert their underage success into a top tier side.
I'll not lose sleep over it either way, with an Ulster Final to look forward to.
Is Mackey out with a back injury from carrying the rest of ye?
Come back when you win an all Ireland, always in our shadow don't forget it.
Quote from: Itchy on July 09, 2014, 11:18:41 PM
Come back when you win an all Ireland, always in our shadow don't forget it.
And this is why Cavan are doomed to perennial underachievement. Living in the past, latching on to the success of a generation that have mostly passed away.
It's the 21st century Itch! You need to produce more footballers than Mackey today instead of exhuming players from the 1940s.
We'll always have a tradition in football you boys will never have. It will always be there no matter how good or bad we are. I know you are bitter about it but tough luck for you. I feel real pity for Monaghan but keep yer head up and maybe one day.
Quote from: babarino on July 09, 2014, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on July 09, 2014, 10:11:43 PM
Barbarino was surprised that Cavan beat Westmeath. Whatever he predicts back the opposite.
I'd say I'm not the only one Itch that was surprised Cavan beat Westmeath. But without Mackey I just can't see you do it against the Rossies. Plus, unlike yourselves, Roscommon have shown potential to convert their underage success into a top tier side.
I'll not lose sleep over it either way, with an Ulster Final to look forward to.
Cavan have done more with arguably less than we have recently. Both teams have everything to prove.
In my now middle aged life, I've very rarely known Cavan to have the better of us competitively. Give me the here and now over tradition any day.
Anyway the thread isn't about this tedious Monaghan v Cavan stuff. All I said was I think Roscommon would beat you and you go off on one. I might be proved wrong, it has happened before.
Go on Itch...give yourself a good scratch.
For a middle age man you must suffer from Alzheimer's. I think Ros probably will beat us too. It was your bitter prediction vrs Westmeath I took you up on not Roscommon.
Quote from: Itchy on July 10, 2014, 12:03:37 AM
For a middle age man you must suffer from Alzheimer's. I think Ros probably will beat us too. It was your bitter prediction vrs Westmeath I took you up on not Roscommon.
No sign of Alzheimer's yet Itch thankfully. Although I doubted myself when you mentioned the 'bitter prediction vrs Westmeath'. So I had another look at it and fail to understand how you think it was bitter.
You've got issues Itch and it's not something I'm qualified to deal with. Maybe a good win this weekend will make you see things more positively...but no offense, I think Roscommon will win.
Congratulations to Sligo on a good win. From the radio broadcast, it appeared we had 75% of the posesssion against a very defensive minded team.
Coen did the magic act again and our midfield once again played well.
Looks like Cork in the next round unless Galway can pull an upset tomorrow.
Well done pat and team on making the necessary changes when needed.
Tipp gave cork a real fright so Sligo should show them no fear.
Great to see ye on another run. Been involved in some crackers down the year.
Keep her going Sligo..
Well done to the rossies and sligo today
Can Galway and Sligo not meet in the next round because of their earlier meeting - so it's definitely Sligo v Cork & Galway v Tipp assuming we come up short tomorrow?
Quote from: galwayman on July 12, 2014, 10:37:31 PM
Can Galway and Sligo not meet in the next round because of their earlier meeting - so it's definitely Sligo v Cork & Galway v Tipp assuming we come up short tomorrow?
Yip. All set up for four Connacht QFinalists 8)
First out at home.
Roscommon v Armagh
Clare v Kildare
Have Armagh a bus?
Armagh have chambers full of buses.
Has a date and time been confirmed for Armagh game? I was hoping to make a weekend of it but I'm for Croke Park on Sunday too so not sure how to make both...how long would it take to get from Ross to Dublin? On a Sunday morning... I need to be in Croke for about 10:30am on Sunday morning
Via motorway its about 100 mins from Roscommon to Dublin
on a sunday morning you will get from ros to Dublin in around 90 minutes, 20 minutes from Roscommon to athlone, and an hour on the motorway to Liffey valley roundabout
Is there any particular reason why Roscommon v Armagh and Clare v Kildare are fixed for home venues while Galway v Tipp and Cork v Sligo will be played at neutral venues?
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 14, 2014, 11:59:02 AM
Is there any particular reason why Roscommon v Armagh and Clare v Kildare are fixed for home venues while Galway v Tipp and Cork v Sligo will be played at neutral venues?
Kildare, Clare, Roscommon and Armagh are in 3B
Others are in 4A - round ahead
Theyre round 4 games which have to be neutral AFAIK whereas the Ros/Armagh and Clare/Kildare are still round 3 (3A??)
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 14, 2014, 11:59:02 AM
Is there any particular reason why Roscommon v Armagh and Clare v Kildare are fixed for home venues while Galway v Tipp and Cork v Sligo will be played at neutral venues?
they're at different stages, pot A is at round 4, pot B at round 3. Round 4, or last 12 games, are always nuetral
Quote from: commonman on July 14, 2014, 12:05:47 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 14, 2014, 11:59:02 AM
Is there any particular reason why Roscommon v Armagh and Clare v Kildare are fixed for home venues while Galway v Tipp and Cork v Sligo will be played at neutral venues?
they're at different stages, pot A is at round 4, pot B at round 3. Round 4, or last 12 games, are always nuetral
Ah right. Forgot the Ulster and Leinster finals still to come.
Quote from: babarino on July 09, 2014, 08:30:24 PM
PREDICTIONS
HOME WINS FOR ALL EXCEPT SLIGO AND CAVAN:
Sligo v Limerick, - LIMERICK (Sligo seem to be at a low ebb)
Laois v Tipperary, - LAOIS (Home advantage swings it in favour of Laois)
Cavan v Roscommon, - ROSCOMMON (Roscommon look like they could go places in the next couple of years, Cavan without Mackey)
Down v Kildare, Páirc Esler, - DOWN (Kildare on the way down)
Carlow v Clare, Dr. Cullen Park, CARLOW (Home advantage...neither will get beyond next match)
Tyrone v Armagh, Omagh, - TYRONE (Unfair short turnaround for Armagh)
1 out of 6. :-[ Isn't it just as well I'm not a gambler, or I'd be broke.
Are we on the cusp of change in the football world?
Last 14 - FOUR from Connacht, FOUR from Munster, 3 from Ulster and 3 from Leinster.
Perhaps the times they are a changing.
So basically the last 12 will more than likely look like this:
Armagh/Roscommon v Meath
Kildare v Donegal/Monaghan
Tipperary v Galway
Sligo v Cork
That is presuming Dublin beat Meath on Sunday which they should do. You would probably fancy the 4 qualifiers to make the quarter finals to be Roscommon, Monaghan (I'm predicting Donegal to beat Monaghan), Galway and Cork. I can't see any of the qualifiers this year beating any of the provincial winners. That would leave the 2 AI semi finals of Mayo v Kerry and Dublin v Donegal. It will be easier to evaluate the merits of those 4 after the quarter finals are complete but any of them could win it.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 15, 2014, 02:15:51 PM
So basically the last 12 will more than likely look like this:
Armagh/Roscommon v Meath
Kildare v Donegal/Monaghan
Tipperary v Galway
Sligo v Cork
That is presuming Dublin beat Meath on Sunday which they should do. You would probably fancy the 4 qualifiers to make the quarter finals to be Roscommon, Monaghan (I'm predicting Donegal to beat Monaghan), Galway and Cork. I can't see any of the qualifiers this year beating any of the provincial winners. That would leave the 2 AI semi finals of Mayo v Kerry and Dublin v Donegal. It will be easier to evaluate the merits of those 4 after the quarter finals are complete but any of them could win it.
Apart from the three that aren't Dublin.
The gap between the rest of the eventual provincial winners and Dublin is likely significantly larger than between them and the rest.
Quote from: Syferus on July 15, 2014, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 15, 2014, 02:15:51 PM
So basically the last 12 will more than likely look like this:
Armagh/Roscommon v Meath
Kildare v Donegal/Monaghan
Tipperary v Galway
Sligo v Cork
That is presuming Dublin beat Meath on Sunday which they should do. You would probably fancy the 4 qualifiers to make the quarter finals to be Roscommon, Monaghan (I'm predicting Donegal to beat Monaghan), Galway and Cork. I can't see any of the qualifiers this year beating any of the provincial winners. That would leave the 2 AI semi finals of Mayo v Kerry and Dublin v Donegal. It will be easier to evaluate the merits of those 4 after the quarter finals are complete but any of them could win it.
Apart from the three that aren't Dublin.
The gap between the rest of the eventual provincial winners and Dublin is likely significantly larger than between them and the rest.
On paper you are right but whether the manic hunger is still there with Dublin is hard to tell. They were marginally better than Mayo in last years final and haven't fully convinced me that they are the shoe ins that a lot of people predict. I'd like to see how they would cope with Donegals ultra defensive style. I think Donegal and their suffocating tactics are the team that will trouble them the most.
2015
1A: London v Cavan, Laois/Kildare v Antrim, Longford v Carlow, Waterford v Offaly.
1B: Tyrone v Limerick, Louth v Leitrim, Armagh/Donegal v Meath/Wicklow, Wexford/Westmeath v Down
The 1A games will be played on Saturday 20 June.
Round 1B games will take place on Saturday 27 June.
Was there not a thing previously about "weaker" teams getting home advantage?