Having observed the progression of the 'Occupy Wall Street' Protests Worldwide, then there seems to be an Elephant in the Room that's missing. And that is to Shop Locally.
The rise of the Cost of Living in the Western World has forced many Working Mothers to Shop at Asda, Tesco, etc in order to satisfy their Children's every need and create a culture of dependancy on American-style consumerism. Not only does it benefit the Incorporated Companies, it also eats at the sense of community that used to be the bedrock of Small Towns in Ireland and the UK.
It seems a fitting irony that the future of our Economies in Europe is dependant on a Communist Nation (ie. China) providing us with funds. This truly is; to quote Ron Paul; "Socialism to save Capitalism!"
Also, I feel sorry for the Church of England. They have been placed in a no-win situation because they have interests both ends. Allowing the Church and State to be interlinked (as in Ireland) ended up corrupting both.
The way forward is to act locally as well as thinking globally.
A sensible enough argument, but it needs to be fleshed out and developed
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 06, 2011, 06:38:37 PM
I think he means ...(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt8wrl3C721qdakk4.jpg)
Sounds great til you realize that people already have to much month
left at the end of the money to be running to the corner shop to pay
upwards on 50% extra for groceries they can buy cheaper in the evil
Corporate establishments in town :-\
Some of you lads would do well to try to look beyond the end of your
noses an odd time!
QuoteThe rise of the Cost of Living in the Western World has forced many Working Mothers to Shop at Asda, Tesco, etc in order to satisfy their Children's every need and create a culture of dependancy on American-style consumerism. Not only does it benefit the Incorporated Companies, it also eats at the sense of community that used to be the bedrock of Small Towns in Ireland and the UK.
Although the cost of living is rising very fast people (not just working mothers) are shopping in asda, tesco etc because it's cheaper and now widely available. Nothing will change that.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 06, 2011, 06:47:15 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 06, 2011, 06:38:37 PM
I think he means ...(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt8wrl3C721qdakk4.jpg)
Sounds great til you realize that people already have to much month
left at the end of the money to be running to the corner shop to pay
upwards on 50% extra for groceries they can buy cheaper in the evil
Corporate establishments in town :-\
Some of you lads would do well to try to look beyond the end of your
noses an odd time!
Is it really upwards on 50% extra every time you shop at a local independent merchant?
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on November 06, 2011, 07:11:46 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 06, 2011, 06:47:15 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 06, 2011, 06:38:37 PM
I think he means ...(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt8wrl3C721qdakk4.jpg)
Sounds great til you realize that people already have to much month
left at the end of the money to be running to the corner shop to pay
upwards on 50% extra for groceries they can buy cheaper in the evil
Corporate establishments in town :-\
Some of you lads would do well to try to look beyond the end of your
noses an odd time!
Is it really upwards on 50% extra every time you shop at a local independent merchant?
#Pedantics
Certain items yes...carton/container/content sizes taken into account.
Point being Arthur...any noticable difference at all will have people
shopping in town, and as Pints mentioned above, nothing will change that!
Quote from: ExcellentDriver on November 06, 2011, 04:44:25 PM
Having observed the progression of the 'Occupy Wall Street' Protests Worldwide, then there seems to be an Elephant in the Room that's missing. And that is to Shop Locally.
The rise of the Cost of Living in the Western World has forced many Working Mothers to Shop at Asda, Tesco, etc in order to satisfy their Children's every need and create a culture of dependancy on American-style consumerism. Not only does it benefit the Incorporated Companies, it also eats at the sense of community that used to be the bedrock of Small Towns in Ireland and the UK.
It seems a fitting irony that the future of our Economies in Europe is dependant on a Communist Nation (ie. China) providing us with funds. This truly is; to quote Ron Paul; "Socialism to save Capitalism!"
Also, I feel sorry for the Church of England. They have been placed in a no-win situation because they have interests both ends. Allowing the Church and State to be interlinked (as in Ireland) ended up corrupting both.
The way forward is to act locally as well as thinking globally.
good letter.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 06, 2011, 06:47:15 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 06, 2011, 06:38:37 PM
I think he means ...(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt8wrl3C721qdakk4.jpg)
Sounds great til you realize that people already have to much month
left at the end of the money to be running to the corner shop to pay
upwards on 50% extra for groceries they can buy cheaper in the evil
Corporate establishments in town :-\
Some of you lads would do well to try to look beyond the end of your
noses an odd time!
Who said anything about corner shops? Independent supermarkets can be competitive too.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2011, 09:21:44 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 06, 2011, 06:47:15 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on November 06, 2011, 06:38:37 PM
I think he means ...(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt8wrl3C721qdakk4.jpg)
Sounds great til you realize that people already have to much month
left at the end of the money to be running to the corner shop to pay
upwards on 50% extra for groceries they can buy cheaper in the evil
Corporate establishments in town :-\
Some of you lads would do well to try to look beyond the end of your
noses an odd time!
Who said anything about corner shops?
I did...as that's all there is where I hail from and can only speak for myself 8)
QuoteIndependent supermarkets can be competitive too.
And corner shops aren't independent?
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 06, 2011, 11:01:38 PM
What is an independent supermarket?
Ones that sell organic propaganda.
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 06, 2011, 11:01:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2011, 09:21:44 PM
Who said anything about corner shops? Independent supermarkets can be competitive too.
What is an independent supermarket?
They're a bit of a dying breed. Curleys held out well on the Falls and even faced down a challenge from Wellworths when they opened that Westwood Centre next door. But I hear even Curleys sold out to Sainsbury's or someone big like that in the end.
Emerson's in Armagh town, that was another independent. Dunno if they're still about.
Point of information: SuperValu and Centra are independent franchised stores - they're owned by local (traditionally the old grocer families in towns) business-people but supplied by a large distributor, Musgrave. So the local store, in theory, still employs locally, and can do local deals in relation to foods/supplies etc.
QuotePoint of information: SuperValu and Centra are independent franchised stores - they're owned by local (traditionally the old grocer families in towns) business-people but supplied by a large distributor, Musgrave. So the local store, in theory, still employs locally, and can do local deals in relation to foods/supplies etc.
Agreed. Our local Supervalu is a huge contributor to all voluntary organisations in the village.
What do you call a Pakistani without a corner shop?
Doctor
If these bleeding hearts that are out protesting would live within their means thye would not have to protest.
Why is it always someone else's fault and where is the accountability on a personal level?
I would love that $5,000 bar in the basement and that $6,000 pool table to complement it but I cant afford them so i will wait, save and buy them if and when I can and not before. I don't do credit cards and have a debit card and that's it.
I also got into serious credit card debt ten years ago, I ended up taking a second job to pay the fcuker off and it took three years, never again, what i did not do was blame someone else, blame Wall Street or anyone else, i blamed myself.
The morons that flock around the courthouse crying about Corporate America, begging for handouts they don't deserve make me sick!
Yes Stew we know.
We have had people like that all through history. 'Let them eat cake'......... (the Irish famine is) 'a direct stroke of an all-wise and all-merciful Providence' etc..
Amazing though how well some ex-pat Irish, of all people, buy into it.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 01:04:19 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 06, 2011, 11:01:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 06, 2011, 09:21:44 PM
Who said anything about corner shops? Independent supermarkets can be competitive too.
What is an independent supermarket?
They're a bit of a dying breed. Curleys held out well on the Falls and even faced down a challenge from Wellworths when they opened that Westwood Centre next door. But I hear even Curleys sold out to Sainsbury's or someone big like that in the end.
Emerson's in Armagh town, that was another independent. Dunno if they're still about.
And you don't think Curleys and Emersons were/are incorporated :-X
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 04:02:46 PM
Yes Stew we know.
We have had people like that all through history. 'Let them eat cake'......... (the Irish famine is) 'a direct stroke of an all-wise and all-merciful Providence' etc..
Amazing though how well some ex-pat Irish, of all people, buy into it.
Muppet I think its a bit far fetched to draw comparisons there in fairness.
Yes big business is a problem and yes the distribution of wealth is a problem. What I don't agree with is the attitude of 'the world owes me a living.'
Look around the bars in Ireland at the weekend and its the same people, in the same trendy new clothes, with the iPhones and the new cars, the holidays to Spain once a year, yet they don't have any money. Living beyond their means is the problem.
Couple that with the laziness that has crept into the country and you have a problem. People don't want to work and expect to get paid a lot of money for not working.
I work about 60-70 hours a week, God forbid if I was out of work in the morning and couldn't get work doing something similar to what I am doing I would be on a building site or behind a bar pulling pints or manual labour on a farm. You reap what you sow.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 04:02:46 PM
Yes Stew we know.
We have had people like that all through history. 'Let them eat cake'......... (the Irish famine is) 'a direct stroke of an all-wise and all-merciful Providence' etc..
Amazing though how well some ex-pat Irish, of all people, buy into it.
Muppet I think its a bit far fetched to draw comparisons there in fairness.
Yes big business is a problem and yes the distribution of wealth is a problem. What I don't agree with is the attitude of 'the world owes me a living.'
Look around the bars in Ireland at the weekend and its the same people, in the same trendy new clothes, with the iPhones and the new cars, the holidays to Spain once a year, yet they don't have any money. Living beyond their means is the problem.
Couple that with the laziness that has crept into the country and you have a problem. People don't want to work and expect to get paid a lot of money for not working.
I work about 60-70 hours a week, God forbid if I was out of work in the morning and couldn't get work doing something similar to what I am doing I would be on a building site or behind a bar pulling pints or manual labour on a farm. You reap what you sow.
Nail on the head right there! Its wonderful how it's the lads drawing as many
benefits as humanly possible and or still living at home with their parents that don't see this. Amazing really!
Isn't it funny how the lecture about making everyone else pay for their mistakes, always includes the bit about how brilliant and hard working the one giving the lecture is?
Love thy neighbor, unless he is broke, it seems.
Iceman
QuoteI work about 60-70 hours a week, God forbid if I was out of work in the morning and couldn't get work doing something similar to what I am doing I would be on a building site or behind a bar pulling pints or manual labour on a farm.
Stew
QuoteI also got into serious credit card debt ten years ago, I ended up taking a second job to pay the fcuker off and it took three years, never again, what i did not do was blame someone else, blame Wall Street or anyone else, i blamed myself.
I don't understand your issue with the two quotes there muppet. Taking responsibility for your financial situation is a commendable attitude.
Quote from: Puckoon on November 07, 2011, 05:29:26 PM
I don't understand your issue with the two quotes there muppet. Taking responsibility for your financial situation is a commendable attitude.
Of course it is. However lecturing everyone about extreme right wing ideology on the back of it isn't.
The mantra is always the same.
Start with name calling - bleeding heart, leftie pinko, Euro weenie etc.
Then assume a ludicrous notion that every opponent of extreme right wing ideology is broke, or heavily in debt, communists and always out of a job.
Then boast about how you yourself are unbelievably hard working.
None of the 3 tactics above form part of any debate. None are relevent to any issues. It is simply mantra, mantra, mantra.
QuoteThen assume a ludicrous notion that every opponent of extreme right wing ideology is broke, or heavily in debt, communists and always out of a job.
What extreme rightwing ideology would that be muppet,
Is it that damned evil "work hard, thrive, be happy and rely
on no one for free handouts" part that makes you uncomfortable?
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 05:52:19 PM
QuoteThen assume a ludicrous notion that every opponent of extreme right wing ideology is broke, or heavily in debt, communists and always out of a job.
What extreme rightwing ideology would that be muppet,
Is it that damned evil "work hard, thrive, be happy and rely
on no one for free handouts" part that makes you uncomfortable?
It is the pompous assumption that anyone that thinks different to you is lazy, deficient or somehow a lesser human.
Muppet you obviously have issues with people on the board that you can't set aside for the sake of serious conversation or debate.
Love they neighbour unless he is broke.
What does that even mean?
Am I not showing love because I don't support the protests? Am I not showing love because I'm not part of the protests? Am I not showing love because I take care of my own financial situation?
I don't understand your point.....................
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 06:05:29 PM
Muppet you obviously have issues with people on the board that you can't set aside for the sake of serious conversation or debate.
Love they neighbour unless he is broke.
What does that even mean?
Am I not showing love because I don't support the protests? Am I not showing love because I'm not part of the protests? Am I not showing love because I take care of my own financial situation?
I don't understand your point.....................
A very small number of incredibly greedy people have placed financial bets that have caused the world financial system to become bankrupt. These are the people you are defending.
Your defense of these people appears to be that any people who complains is afraid of hard work, but of course people like yourself are great because you work hard.
Perhaps neither of us is representing our case too well. I will put my hands up and admit I don't understand half of the reasons behind the protests. But I do know what I see on the ground in Wall Street. I should post a video of one of the protestors we actually interviewed and asked why exactly they were protesting. The answer was "because we deserve to be heard, people deserve a voice dude" when questioned further we got nothing. Seriously. So my ignorance is partly based on a lack of supporting evidence from any sensible party.
Would you argue that everyone protesting would do whatever it takes to get their financial situation back on track? That they embrace hard work?
I didn't once state that I was "great" I implied that I wasn't lazy and that laziness is half the problem.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 06:50:34 PM
Perhaps neither of us is representing our case too well. I will put my hands up and admit I don't understand half of the reasons behind the protests. But I do know what I see on the ground in Wall Street. I should post a video of one of the protestors we actually interviewed and asked why exactly they were protesting. The answer was "because we deserve to be heard, people deserve a voice dude" when questioned further we got nothing. Seriously. So my ignorance is partly based on a lack of supporting evidence from any sensible party.
Would you argue that everyone protesting would do whatever it takes to get their financial situation back on track? That they embrace hard work?
I didn't once state that I was "great" I implied that I wasn't lazy and that laziness is half the problem.
Laziness is half of the problem, really? Let's work this through then. TARP cost $700bn. The cost of the Eurozone crisis is immeasurable at the moment but will surely top €1,000,000,000,000. Who knows what the worldwide cost will eventually be. And it is 'half' down to the laziness of poor people?
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
How does all this stop anybody getting of their arse and getting a job?
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 05:35:48 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 07, 2011, 05:29:26 PM
I don't understand your issue with the two quotes there muppet. Taking responsibility for your financial situation is a commendable attitude.
Of course it is. However lecturing everyone about extreme right wing ideology on the back of it isn't.
The mantra is always the same.
Start with name calling - bleeding heart, leftie pinko, Euro weenie etc.
Then assume a ludicrous notion that every opponent of extreme right wing ideology is broke, or heavily in debt, communists and always out of a job.
Then boast about how you yourself are unbelievably hard working.
None of the 3 tactics above form part of any debate. None are relevent to any issues. It is simply mantra, mantra, mantra.
Nail on head. Hell I got into a personal debt situation years ago and spent years working to pay it off. I'm the kind of fella who doesn't give money to beggars who I see making no effort to get themselves off the streets. But that doesn't change the fact that a small number of corrupt people have squandered decades worth of accumulated wealth with some shady practices and suckering people into "get rich quick" schemes. A small number of people have driven the world economy into the ditch and gotten away with it. The biggest hit-and-run accident in history and there are cheerleaders out there who want to blame the poor for it all. Unbelievable.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 07:17:36 PM
Nail on head. Hell I got into a personal debt situation years ago and spent years working to pay it off. I'm the kind of fella who doesn't give money to beggars who I see making no effort to get themselves off the streets. But that doesn't change the fact that a small number of corrupt people have squandered decades worth of accumulated wealth with some shady practices and suckering people into "get rich quick" schemes. A small number of people have driven the world economy into the ditch and gotten away with it. The biggest hit-and-run accident in history and there are cheerleaders out there who want to blame the poor for it all. Unbelievable.
How will protesting fix all this eamonn?
I'm not championing the rich or blaming the poor. But let's be realistic here.
You can either change yourself (which is possible) or try to change the world (impossible).
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
How does all this stop anybody getting of their arse and getting a job?
It does exactly the opposite. It has cost millions of jobs worldwide and that number will only rise. There will be a lot more people available to protest over the next couple of years. Think of it as a jobs famine. You wouldn't patronise your starving ancestors by telling them to get off their arises would you?
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
How does all this stop anybody getting of their arse and getting a job?
If there were 40 jobs going, and 300 apply for them, are 260 people that dont get a job lazy?
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:20:31 PM
How will protesting fix all this eamonn?
I'm not championing the rich or blaming the poor. But let's be realistic here.
You can either change yourself (which is possible) or try to change the world (impossible).
These protests have succeeded in changing the terms of the conversation. Before it was all about "wasteful government spending" which was not exactly the source of the problem. It has drawn attention to income inequality in the USA and the fact that the white collar fraudsters who caused this mess have all gotten away scot free. It has prevented it from being swept under the carpet by the brush of right wing propaganda from Fox and friends.
Quote from: eddie d on November 07, 2011, 08:01:58 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
How does all this stop anybody getting of their arse and getting a job?
If there were 40 jobs going, and 300 apply for them, are 260 people that dont get a job lazy?
but are there only 40 jobs going? Or only 40 jobs going that you would actually do? Meanwhile there are another 300 jobs that you wouldn't lower yourself to do..... that are being snapped up by other Eastern Europeans and other Internationals prepared to come to Ireland and do whatever it takes....
Ok so let me ask it another way in attempt to ward off the straw man
Which law is it in particular and or differing circumstances that Stew
IM and myself are living under that are not readily available to the
"poor" ::) that are camped out in Zuccotti park or those wreaking havoc
in Oakland ???
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: eddie d on November 07, 2011, 08:01:58 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
How does all this stop anybody getting of their arse and getting a job?
If there were 40 jobs going, and 300 apply for them, are 260 people that dont get a job lazy?
but are there only 40 jobs going? Or only 40 jobs going that you would actually do? Meanwhile there are another 300 jobs that you wouldn't lower yourself to do..... that are being snapped up by other Eastern Europeans and other Internationals prepared to come to Ireland and do whatever it takes....
No its not 40 jobs i would actually do, my point is if 40 jobs were made available tomorrow, you could get 300+ applications. people who dont get the job are lazy? also what about people who have been made redundant and may struggle to get another job because of their age? you can argue the age has nothing to do with it, but we all know a company will hire someone in their 20s before someone in their 50s
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 08:32:43 PM
Ok so let me ask it another way in attempt to ward off the straw man
Which law is it in particular and or differing circumstances that Stew
IM and myself are living under that are not readily available to the
"poor" ::) that are camped out in Zuccotti park or those wreaking havoc
in Oakland ???
If it was a law that was the problem it would be 'Occupy Washington' wouldn't it?
The differing circumstances are that you, for whatever reason, blame the easy target. Compare the military spend and the healthcare spends. Which are you rabidly offended by?
Lord Trevelyan did the same. According to him the famine was entirely the fault of the Irish and God was on his side.
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 05:26:35 PM
Isn't it funny how the lecture about making everyone else pay for their mistakes, always includes the bit about how brilliant and hard working the one giving the lecture is?
Love thy neighbor, unless he is broke, it seems.
Iceman
QuoteI work about 60-70 hours a week, God forbid if I was out of work in the morning and couldn't get work doing something similar to what I am doing I would be on a building site or behind a bar pulling pints or manual labour on a farm.
Stew
QuoteI also got into serious credit card debt ten years ago, I ended up taking a second job to pay the fcuker off and it took three years, never again, what i did not do was blame someone else, blame Wall Street or anyone else, i blamed myself.
I don't work hard anymore, cushy enough number, I did work hard because I had to work hard based on the fact that I fcuked up and put myself into the position were I had to work hard, you see how that works???
I am not interested in giving lectures, I am interested in carrying my own weight and I am not interested in blaming others for my bad choices.
Muppet, you are trying to paint me as a non caring, selfish bastard, I am none of those things, what I am is someone who made mistakes, owned them and fixed them the hard way.
One last thing, I don't want to pay for the sins of others, I don't want a handout, bailout or shout out, why do you fight so hard to defend the indefensible.
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 08:58:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 05:26:35 PM
Isn't it funny how the lecture about making everyone else pay for their mistakes, always includes the bit about how brilliant and hard working the one giving the lecture is?
Love thy neighbor, unless he is broke, it seems.
Iceman
QuoteI work about 60-70 hours a week, God forbid if I was out of work in the morning and couldn't get work doing something similar to what I am doing I would be on a building site or behind a bar pulling pints or manual labour on a farm.
Stew
QuoteI also got into serious credit card debt ten years ago, I ended up taking a second job to pay the fcuker off and it took three years, never again, what i did not do was blame someone else, blame Wall Street or anyone else, i blamed myself.
I don't work hard anymore, cushy enough number, I did work hard because I had to work hard based on the fact that I fcuked up and put myself into the position were I had to work hard, you see how that works???
I am not interested in giving lectures, I am interested in carrying my own weight and I am not interested in blaming others for my bad choices.
Muppet, you are trying to paint me as a non caring, selfish b**tard, I am none of those things, what I am is someone who made mistakes, owned them and fixed them the hard way.
One last thing, I don't want to pay for the sins of others, I don't want a handout, bailout or shout out, why do you fight so hard to defend the indefensible.
12 times in 4 sentences you use the word 'I'.
Think about it.
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:14:50 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 06:05:29 PM
Muppet you obviously have issues with people on the board that you can't set aside for the sake of serious conversation or debate.
Love they neighbour unless he is broke.
What does that even mean?
Am I not showing love because I don't support the protests? Am I not showing love because I'm not part of the protests? Am I not showing love because I take care of my own financial situation?
I don't understand your point.....................
A very small number of incredibly greedy people have placed financial bets that have caused the world financial system to become banupt. These are the people you are defending.
Your defense of these people appears to be that any people who complains is afraid of hard work, but of course people like yourself are great because you work hard.
None of us defend these greedy bastards, we are talking personal responsibility here, if you actually took the time to go to these rallies you would find that all people do is blame big government and corrupt billionaires on their situation, what they do not do is own their mistakes and their situations.
I live in the States, there are jobs to be had here if you want them, that is not the case in some parts of the world, if there is no work to be had I would have sympathy for people in that situation, here I have very little, why? because there is opportunity to work here, to support yourself here.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
How does all this stop anybody getting of their arse and getting a job?
A ridiculous comment and deeply insulting to the many, many people struggling to find work.
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 09:02:42 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 08:58:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 05:26:35 PM
Isn't it funny how the lecture about making everyone else pay for their mistakes, always includes the bit about how brilliant and hard working the one giving the lecture is?
Love thy neighbor, unless he is broke, it seems.
Iceman
QuoteI work about 60-70 hours a week, God forbid if I was out of work in the morning and couldn't get work doing something similar to what I am doing I would be on a building site or behind a bar pulling pints or manual labour on a farm.
Stew
QuoteI also got into serious credit card debt ten years ago, I ended up taking a second job to pay the fcuker off and it took three years, never again, what i did not do was blame someone else, blame Wall Street or anyone else, i blamed myself.
I don't work hard anymore, cushy enough number, I did work hard because I had to work hard based on the fact that I fcuked up and put myself into the position were I had to work hard, you see how that works???
I am not interested in giving lectures, I am interested in carrying my own weight and I am not interested in blaming others for my bad choices.
Muppet, you are trying to paint me as a non caring, selfish b**tard, I am none of those things, what I am is someone who made mistakes, owned them and fixed them the hard way.
One last thing, I don't want to pay for the sins of others, I don't want a handout, bailout or shout out, why do you fight so hard to defend the indefensible.
12 times in 4 sentences you use the word 'I'.
Think about it.
If you are not bright enough to know why I used the letter that many times there is no point continuing this discussion.
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:01:49 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 05:52:19 PM
QuoteThen assume a ludicrous notion that every opponent of extreme right wing ideology is broke, or heavily in debt, communists and always out of a job.
What extreme rightwing ideology would that be muppet,
Is it that damned evil "work hard, thrive, be happy and rely
on no one for free handouts" part that makes you uncomfortable?
It is the pompous assumption that anyone that thinks different to you is lazy, deficient or somehow a lesser human.
:D :D :D :D :D
That's not what is being said here, you cant be this thick surely.
being a liberal does not give you more humanity, you are not better than TO because you are a bleeding heart, non accountable wee man who seems to think that everybody should get bailed out. That is the way you are perceived.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 08:32:43 PM
Ok so let me ask it another way in attempt to ward off the straw man
Which law is it in particular and or differing circumstances that Stew
IM and myself are living under that are not readily available to the
"poor" ::) that are camped out in Zuccotti park or those wreaking havoc
in Oakland ???
Those wreaking havoc in Oakland all have jobs. They're called policemen.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 08:03:34 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:20:31 PM
How will protesting fix all this eamonn?
I'm not championing the rich or blaming the poor. But let's be realistic here.
You can either change yourself (which is possible) or try to change the world (impossible).
These protests have succeeded in changing the terms of the conversation. Before it was all about "wasteful government spending" which was not exactly the source of the problem. It has drawn attention to income inequality in the USA and the fact that the white collar fraudsters who caused this mess have all gotten away scot free. It has prevented it from being swept under the carpet by the brush of right wing propaganda from Fox and friends.
You dont actually believe that shite do you???
There are more idiots on this site that swear Fox is some sort of evil, powerful entity that conservative people tune into and get indoctrinated, do you people really believe this????
Fox is as reliable as any other news network, no more and no less, you liberal agenda hounds are pathetic.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 07, 2011, 09:06:56 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
How does all this stop anybody getting of their arse and getting a job?
A ridiculous comment and deeply insulting to the many, many people struggling to find work.
Pints I am basing my comments on the situation here in the US. There are a tonne of jobs. It all depends on what you are willing to do!
At home I am not so certain of the situation. My brother has 3-4 jobs depending on the time of year. I know a farmer in Armagh looking people to gather potatoes on a harvester for the next 2 months if you're interested PM me and I'll send you his number.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 07, 2011, 09:06:56 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
How does all this stop anybody getting of their arse and getting a job?
A ridiculous comment and deeply insulting to the many, many people struggling to find work.
Pints I am basing my comments on the situation here in the US. There are a tonne of jobs. It all depends on what you are willing to do!
At home I am not so certain of the situation. My brother has 3-4 jobs depending on the time of year. I know a farmer in Armagh looking people to gather potatoes on a harvester for the next 2 months if you're interested PM me and I'll send you his number.
Um, no thanks, I live and work in England.
In case you don't know there's people leaving your homeland in droves, do you think they would if it was just a case of walking in to a job at home? and they're the lucky ones without ties and can go!
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:17:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:01:49 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 05:52:19 PM
QuoteThen assume a ludicrous notion that every opponent of extreme right wing ideology is broke, or heavily in debt, communists and always out of a job.
What extreme rightwing ideology would that be muppet,
Is it that damned evil "work hard, thrive, be happy and rely
on no one for free handouts" part that makes you uncomfortable?
It is the pompous assumption that anyone that thinks different to you is lazy, deficient or somehow a lesser human.
:D :D :D :D :D
That's not what is being said here, you cant be this thick surely.
being a liberal does not give you more humanity, you are not better than TO because you are a bleeding heart, non accountable wee man who seems to think that everybody should get bailed out. That is the way you are perceived.
I haven't demanded that anyone be bailed out. That is what your ideology assumed. I want the complete opposite. You can't get out of the Fox News manta whereby everyone that criticizes Republicans is against us.
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 08:03:34 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:20:31 PM
How will protesting fix all this eamonn?
I'm not championing the rich or blaming the poor. But let's be realistic here.
You can either change yourself (which is possible) or try to change the world (impossible).
These protests have succeeded in changing the terms of the conversation. Before it was all about "wasteful government spending" which was not exactly the source of the problem. It has drawn attention to income inequality in the USA and the fact that the white collar fraudsters who caused this mess have all gotten away scot free. It has prevented it from being swept under the carpet by the brush of right wing propaganda from Fox and friends.
You dont actually believe that shite do you???
There are more idiots on this site that swear Fox is some sort of evil, powerful entity that conservative people tune into and get indoctrinated, do you people really believe this????
Fox is as reliable as any other news network, no more and no less, you liberal agenda hounds are pathetic.
Fox is an echo chamber. How does Fox portray climate change? It doesn't exist.
But Texas has a problem with wildfires this year. So join Governor Perry and pray for rain. That's Fox.
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Fox is as reliable as any other news network
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 10:21:32 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Fox is as reliable as any other news network
:D :D :D :D :D :D
No more no less!
Quote of the millennium.
Poor Stew has all the street cred of a Yank walking around the mart in Ballyhaunis.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Fox is as reliable as any other news network
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Maybe we should all subscribe to Ariana Huffington,
cause that's where the real news is...right Eamonn! :D
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 10:38:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Fox is as reliable as any other news network
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Maybe we should all subscribe to Ariana Huffington,
cause that's where the real news is...right Eamonn! :D
Tell us this:
Is Fox News as reliable as any other news network?
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 10:40:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 10:38:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Fox is as reliable as any other news network
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Maybe we should all subscribe to Ariana Huffington,
cause that's where the real news is...right Eamonn! :D
Tell us this:
Is Fox News as reliable as any other news network?
It is better than any other washing powder
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 10:40:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 10:38:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Fox is as reliable as any other news network
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Maybe we should all subscribe to Ariana Huffington,
cause that's where the real news is...right Eamonn! :D
Tell us this:
Is Fox News as reliable as any other news network?
Wouldn't be entirely sure but if ratings are anything
to go by, then......... :P
Is Eamonn's own choice of news in Ariana reliable?
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 10:49:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 10:40:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 10:38:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Fox is as reliable as any other news network
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Maybe we should all subscribe to Ariana Huffington,
cause that's where the real news is...right Eamonn! :D
Tell us this:
Is Fox News as reliable as any other news network?
Wouldn't be entirely sure but if ratings are anything
to go by, then......... :P
Is Eamonn's own choice of news in Ariana reliable?
To
Tell us something you learnt on Fox. Like what do they say about the US economy ? Or Afghanistan \
Did you like Beck ?
Do you like Ann Coulter ?
Actually, my news source of choice is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 11:40:10 PM
Actually, my news source of choice is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
The Daily show is for teenagers and gobshites who don't realize its purely satirical.... and em, you're no teenager ;)
...explains the level of smug ignorance really.
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 08:32:43 PM
Ok so let me ask it another way in attempt to ward off the straw man
Which law is it in particular and or differing circumstances that Stew
IM and myself are living under that are not readily available to the
"poor" ::) that are camped out in Zuccotti park or those wreaking havoc
in Oakland ???
If it was a law that was the problem it would be 'Occupy Washington' wouldn't it?
The differing circumstances are that you, for whatever reason, blame the easy target. Compare the military spend and the healthcare spends. Which are you rabidly offended by?
Lord Trevelyan did the same. According to him the famine was entirely the fault of the Irish and God was on his side.
Would you ever stand still for once FFS...from military spending
to health care to........................the famine ::)
Let me try again;
What opportunities are there out there that Stew, IM and myself are
offered or gifted that the Protesters are not?
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2011, 11:03:07 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 10:49:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 10:40:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 10:38:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Fox is as reliable as any other news network
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Maybe we should all subscribe to Ariana Huffington,
cause that's where the real news is...right Eamonn! :D
Tell us this:
Is Fox News as reliable as any other news network?
Wouldn't be entirely sure but if ratings are anything
to go by, then......... :P
Is Eamonn's own choice of news in Ariana reliable?
To
Tell us something you learnt on Fox. Like what do they say about the US economy ? Or Afghanistan \
Did you like Beck ?
Do you like Ann Coulter ?
It's extremely rare that I watch the Fox news channel but tell me this
...would that be one of those assumptions that muppet regularly polices the board for?
He must just miss all the ones that are fired in this direction :-\
Strange that!
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 04:51:54 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2011, 11:03:07 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 10:49:49 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 10:40:05 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 10:38:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: stew on November 07, 2011, 09:22:11 PM
Fox is as reliable as any other news network
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Maybe we should all subscribe to Ariana Huffington,
cause that's where the real news is...right Eamonn! :D
Tell us this:
Is Fox News as reliable as any other news network?
Wouldn't be entirely sure but if ratings are anything
to go by, then......... :P
Is Eamonn's own choice of news in Ariana reliable?
To
Tell us something you learnt on Fox. Like what do they say about the US economy ? Or Afghanistan \
Did you like Beck ?
Do you like Ann Coulter ?
It's extremely rare that I watch the Fox news channel but tell me this
...would that be one of those assumptions that muppet regularly polices the board for?
He must just miss all the ones that are fired in this direction :-\
Strange that!
Where do you get your news?
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 04:09:19 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 08:32:43 PM
Ok so let me ask it another way in attempt to ward off the straw man
Which law is it in particular and or differing circumstances that Stew
IM and myself are living under that are not readily available to the
"poor" ::) that are camped out in Zuccotti park or those wreaking havoc
in Oakland ???
If it was a law that was the problem it would be 'Occupy Washington' wouldn't it?
The differing circumstances are that you, for whatever reason, blame the easy target. Compare the military spend and the healthcare spends. Which are you rabidly offended by?
Lord Trevelyan did the same. According to him the famine was entirely the fault of the Irish and God was on his side.
Would you ever stand still for once FFS...from military spending
to health care to........................the famine ::)
Let me try again;
What opportunities are there out there that Stew, IM and myself are
offered or gifted that the Protesters are not?
If you work in Wall Street you are gifted a system whereby if you win you get rich and if you lose the taxpayer coughs up and you can try again.
Is that what you really think Muppet. Everyone who works on Wall Street falls into this statement or just the actual corporations themselves? Is it just Wall Street or would you include anyone who works for say a major private company or Fortune 500....?
QuoteIs that what you really think Muppet. Everyone who works on Wall Street falls into this statement or just the actual corporations themselves?
Not eveyone but the very top boyos
The Self-Attribution Fallacy
November 7, 2011
Intelligence? Talent? No, the ultra-rich got to where they are through luck and brutality.
By George Monbiot. Published in the Guardian 8th November 2011
If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire. The claims that the ultra-rich 1% make for themselves – that they are possessed of unique intelligence or creativity or drive – are examples of the self-attribution fallacy. This means crediting yourself with outcomes for which you weren't responsible. Many of those who are rich today got there because they were able to capture certain jobs. This capture owes less to talent and intelligence than to a combination of the ruthless exploitation of others and accidents of birth, as such jobs are taken disproportionately by people born in certain places and into certain classes.
The findings of the psychologist Daniel Kahneman, winner of a Nobel economics prize, are devastating to the beliefs that financial high-fliers entertain about themselves(1). He discovered that their apparent success is a cognitive illusion. For example, he studied the results achieved by 25 wealth advisers, across eight years. He found that the consistency of their performance was zero. "The results resembled what you would expect from a dice-rolling contest, not a game of skill." Those who received the biggest bonuses had simply got lucky.
Such results have been widely replicated. They show that traders and fund managers across Wall Street receive their massive remuneration for doing no better than would a chimpanzee flipping a coin. When Kahneman tried to point this out they blanked him. "The illusion of skill ... is deeply ingrained in their culture."(2)
So much for the financial sector and its super-educated analysts. As for other kinds of business, you tell me. Is your boss possessed of judgement, vision and management skills superior to those of anyone else in the firm, or did he or she get there through bluff, bullshit and bullying?
In a study published by the journal Psychology, Crime and Law, Belinda Board and Katarina Fritzon tested 39 senior managers and chief executives from leading British businesses(3). They compared the results to the same tests on patients at Broadmoor special hospital, where people who have been convicted of serious crimes are incarcerated. On certain indicators of psychopathy, the bosses's scores either matched or exceeded those of the patients. In fact on these criteria they beat even the subset of patients who had been diagnosed with psychopathic personality disorders.
The psychopathic traits on which the bosses scored so highly, Board and Fritzon point out, closely resemble the characteristics that companies look for. Those who have these traits often possess great skill in flattering and manipulating powerful people. Egocentricity, a strong sense of entitlement, a readiness to exploit others and a lack of empathy and conscience are also unlikely to damage their prospects in many corporations.
In their book Snakes in Suits, Paul Babiak and Robert Hare point out that as the old corporate bureaucracies have been replaced by flexible, ever-changing structures, and as team players are deemed less valuable than competitive risk-takers, psychopathic traits are more likely to be selected and rewarded(4). Reading their work, it seems to me that if you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a poor family you're likely to go to prison. If you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a rich family you're likely to go to business school.
This is not to suggest that all executives are psychopaths. It is to suggest that the economy has been rewarding the wrong skills. As the bosses have shaken off the trade unions and captured both regulators and tax authorities, the distinction between the productive and rentier upper classes has broken down. CEOs now behave like dukes, extracting from their financial estates sums out of all proportion to the work they do or the value they generate, sums that sometimes exhaust the businesses they parasitise. They are no more deserving of the share of wealth they've captured than oil sheikhs.
The rest of us are invited, by governments and by fawning interviews in the press, to subscribe to their myth of election: the belief that they are the chosen ones, possessed of superhuman talents. The very rich are often described as wealth creators. But they have preyed upon the earth's natural wealth and their workers' labour and creativity, impoverishing both people and planet. Now they have almost bankrupted us. The wealth creators of neoliberal mythology are some of the most effective wealth destroyers the world has ever seen.
What has happened over the past 30 years is the capture of the world's common treasury by a handful of people, assisted by neoliberal policies which were first imposed on rich nations by Thatcher and Reagan. I am now going to bombard you with figures. I'm sorry about that, but these numbers need to be tattoed on our minds. Between 1947 and 1979, productivity in the US rose by 119%, while the income of the bottom fifth of the population rose by 122%. But between 1979 and 2009, productivity rose by 80% , while the income of the bottom fifth fell by 4%(5). In roughly the same period, the income of the top 1% rose by 270%(6).
In the UK, the money earned by the poorest tenth fell by 12% between 1999 and 2009, while the money made by the richest 10th rose by 37%(7). The Gini coefficient, which measures income inequality, climbed in this country from 26 in 1979 to 40 in 2009(8).
In his book The Haves and the Have Nots, Branko Milanovic tries to discover who was the richest person who has ever lived(9). Beginning with the loaded Roman triumvir Marcus Crassus, he measures wealth according to the quantity of his compatriots' labour a rich man could buy. It appears that the richest man to have lived in the past 2000 years is alive today. Carlos Slim could buy the labour of 440,000 average Mexicans. This makes him 14 times as rich as Crassus, nine times as rich as Carnegie and four times as rich as Rockefeller.
Until recently, we were mesmerised by the bosses' self-attribution. Their acolytes, in academia, the media, think tanks and government, created an extensive infrastructure of junk economics and flattery to justify their seizure of other people's wealth. So immersed in this nonsense did we become that we seldom challenged its veracity.
This is now changing. On Sunday evening I witnessed a remarkable thing: a debate on the steps of St Paul's Cathedral between Stuart Fraser, chairman of the Corporation of the City of London, another official from the Corporation, the turbulent priest Father William Taylor, John Christensen of the Tax Justice Network and the people of Occupy London(10). It had something of the flavour of the Putney debates of 1647. For the first time in decades – and all credit to the Corporation officials for turning up – financial power was obliged to answer directly to the people.
It felt like history being made. The undeserving rich are now in the frame, and the rest of us want our money back.
I disagree with the majority of that Declan. I know self made millionaires in Ireland who took the chance and dreamed big and did everything they could to make it happen.
I make decent money in the U.S and always have made good enough money in any job I have worked in. None of it is by birth, or by exploitation of others. I'm not overly intelligent, I am not in any cliques or groups, I wouldn't be a good 'ole boy. And there are 1000s of us out there.
I remember being told by someone growing up that if you are rich someone else is living without. What a pile of shite.
The best thing you can do for poor people is not be one of them. If you have money you don't keep in a big stash in your mattress. Local businesses see it, barbers, butchers, restaurants, super markets, churches...it all trickles down.
I'll tell you what sickens me is the Irish begrudgery.
If I came home to Armagh tomorrow, broke and down on my luck I would have people lining up to pity and help me. Great fella there, God love him home from America without a penny. But if I come home with any sniff of success, and sign of doing well for myself, few people have anything good to say about you. Cnut home from America thinks he is the big shot.
And it isn't just people coming home with money. It's anybody at home who has money. They are begrudged. Business owners who have done well for themselves, shower of tramps.....
Some people are only happy when they are miserable and every else is too.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 11:40:10 PM
Actually, my news source of choice is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
The daily show has a liberal slant, as does John Stewart, you are a one trick pony then, thats what i thought. I think it is dangerous to listen to John Stewart and no one else, hell I am interested in what he has to say, he is an intelligent man and he is entertaining if not a little too left wing for my taste.
Beck is a feckin fruitcake and should not be taken seriously but for every beck you have an equally moronic liberal.
There are a lot of lazy, smug gits on this thread, neandertals who seem to think FOX bad CNN good, you are a sad lot really but it explains a lot.
Riddle me this, do any of you think that there is a bad liberal news station out there??? probably not right!
I know, why don't we just cave and become liberals, that way we will all think alike, be on the right side and that way i can get my cred back, whatever the fcuk that is.
You are like a flock of sheep and have about the same amount of imagination, FOX news, Fox news. Fox new's, you idiots think that is all we do and were we get our information from, you are wrong.
Rant over.
Everyone have a nice day now. (except you liberal motherfcukers) :P
One last thing, once again America needs a third party option.
Attention liberals....................... your commander in chief has something to say! :D
French President Sarkozy called Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu a liar in a conversation with President Obama caught on an open mic at last week's G-20 summit.
"I can't look at him [Netanyahu] anymore, he's a liar," Sarkozy told Obama, the French media website Arret Sur Images reported.
"You've had enough of him, but I have to deal with him every day," Obama is said to have responded.
The private conversation happened last Thursday in the southern French city of Cannes, heard by half a dozen journalists whose headphones were still receiving audio from the presidents' wireless microphones.
The handful of reporters included one from the Reuters news agency who confirmed the quotes.
"By the time the team from the Elysee [presidential palace] realized, it must have been three minutes," one of the journalists told Arret Sur Images.
Reporters who overheard the remarks decided not to report them because they were intended to be private, but the news leaked out on the Internet nonetheless.
"We didn't record anything and using them [the comments] would admit that we cheated," an anonymous reporter told the website.
It also quoted another member of the media saying, "there were discussions among the journalists there who decided not to do anything. It's a sensitive subject: it's annoying to not publish this information, but at the same time we have agreed to precise ethical rules and printing these sentences would mean violating them."
Netanyahu's office declined ABC News' request for comment and the White House has yet to respond.
Sarkozy and Obama were discussing the recent admission of Palestine to UNESCO, part of its bid to get recognition at the United Nations. The U.S. opposes the Palestinian efforts and Obama was reportedly chiding Sarkozy for not telling him France would vote in favor of Palestine in the UNESCO vote. The U.S. later withdrew its funding for the cultural body which amounts to $70 million annually.
The conversation then turned to Netanyahu, which is when Sarkozy is said to have called him a liar.
At least publicly, the three countries are united on the issue of the day: crippling sanctions for Iran when the International Atomic Energy Agency releases its latest report this week.
Though Iran was the top story in the Israeli media on Tuesday, the main newspapers also ran the Arret Sur Images report.
The Jerusalem Post reported that a spokesman for the opposition party Kadima -- whose last campaign slogan was "Bibi [Netanyahu's nickname], I don't believe him" -- declined to comment, saying, "What Sarkozy said is more than enough."
Nice of the Liberal President to be led by the nose by Israel. America needs a president who will take no shite from Israel, clearly Barak is not that man.
Also Read
Great article Declan, and see it has a few coin-tossing chimps in a tizz! :D ;)
Quote from: Declan on November 08, 2011, 01:31:38 PM
The Self-Attribution Fallacy
November 7, 2011
Intelligence? Talent? No, the ultra-rich got to where they are through luck and brutality.
By George Monbiot. Published in the Guardian 8th November 2011
If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire. The claims that the ultra-rich 1% make for themselves – that they are possessed of unique intelligence or creativity or drive – are examples of the self-attribution fallacy.
...
Such results have been widely replicated. They show that traders and fund managers across Wall Street receive their massive remuneration for doing no better than would a chimpanzee flipping a coin. When Kahneman tried to point this out they blanked him. "The illusion of skill ... is deeply ingrained in their culture."(2)
...
What has happened over the past 30 years is the capture of the world's common treasury by a handful of people, assisted by neoliberal policies which were first imposed on rich nations by Thatcher and Reagan. I am now going to bombard you with figures. I'm sorry about that, but these numbers need to be tattoed on our minds. Between 1947 and 1979, productivity in the US rose by 119%, while the income of the bottom fifth of the population rose by 122%. But between 1979 and 2009, productivity rose by 80% , while the income of the bottom fifth fell by 4%(5). In roughly the same period, the income of the top 1% rose by 270%(6).
In the UK, the money earned by the poorest tenth fell by 12% between 1999 and 2009, while the money made by the richest 10th rose by 37%(7). The Gini coefficient, which measures income inequality, climbed in this country from 26 in 1979 to 40 in 2009(8).
...
Until recently, we were mesmerised by the bosses' self-attribution. Their acolytes, in academia, the media, think tanks and government, created an extensive infrastructure of junk economics and flattery to justify their seizure of other people's wealth. So immersed in this nonsense did we become that we seldom challenged its veracity.
This is now changing.
...
It felt like history being made. The undeserving rich are now in the frame, and the rest of us want our money back.
QuoteI disagree with the majority of that Declan. I know self made millionaires in Ireland who took the chance and dreamed big and did everything they could to make it happen.
Fair enough - I know plenty of lads who have done well for themselves as well and I wouldn't classify them in the same bracket - Look at the headline again
Intelligence? Talent? No,
the ultra-rich got to where they are through luck and brutality.
QuoteLocal businesses see it, barbers, butchers, restaurants, super markets, churches...it all trickles down
The evidence doesn't support that trickle down effect Iceman - look at the stats again in the article
Your point re begrudgery I think is a separate discussion but there's a reason people are "occupying" places across the world and it's not because they've been brainwashed or are lazy good for nothing hippies etc. They are becoming aware that the game is rigged and are complaining against the basic injustice of it all - As Geroge Carlin famously said - Its called the American Dream because you'd want to be asleep to believe it!!
What is ultra rich? the 1%?
What about the boys in between? Is there a category for them because the way I feel its a case of "if you're not with us you're against us"
I would have figured millionaire in Armagh was ultra rich..... and you couldn't meet a nicer lad.....
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 03:25:29 PM
Attention liberals....................... your commander in chief has something to say! :D
What are you talking about?
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 03:08:51 PM
FOX bad CNN good,
Riddle me this, do any of you think that there is a bad liberal news station out there??? probably not right!
You think CNN is either liberal or good?
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 09:48:55 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 04:09:19 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 07, 2011, 08:32:43 PM
Ok so let me ask it another way in attempt to ward off the straw man
Which law is it in particular and or differing circumstances that Stew
IM and myself are living under that are not readily available to the
"poor" ::) that are camped out in Zuccotti park or those wreaking havoc
in Oakland ???
If it was a law that was the problem it would be 'Occupy Washington' wouldn't it?
The differing circumstances are that you, for whatever reason, blame the easy target. Compare the military spend and the healthcare spends. Which are you rabidly offended by?
Lord Trevelyan did the same. According to him the famine was entirely the fault of the Irish and God was on his side.
Would you ever stand still for once FFS...from military spending
to health care to........................the famine ::)
Let me try again;
What opportunities are there out there that Stew, IM and myself are
offered or gifted that the Protesters are not?
If you work in Wall Street you are gifted a system whereby if you win you get rich and if you lose the taxpayer coughs up and you can try again.
Ok now were getting down to the point of where its blatantly obvious that you
once again are over your head and have no clue as to how to even make a point
...merely humming along with the choir here in a big boy conversation
in yet another attempt to show how smart you are...not!
What if (for a third time) I was to let you in on the wee secret that none of the three of us work on Wall St...how does that factor in to your non answer?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-davis-elcentro-20111108,0,6445667.story
Quote from: Declan on November 08, 2011, 03:56:04 PM
QuoteI disagree with the majority of that Declan. I know self made millionaires in Ireland who took the chance and dreamed big and did everything they could to make it happen.
Fair enough - I know plenty of lads who have done well for themselves as well and I wouldn't classify them in the same bracket - Look at the headline again
Intelligence? Talent? No, the ultra-rich got to where they are through luck and brutality.
QuoteLocal businesses see it, barbers, butchers, restaurants, super markets, churches...it all trickles down
The evidence doesn't support that trickle down effect Iceman - look at the stats again in the article
Your point re begrudgery I think is a separate discussion but there's a reason people are "occupying" places across the world and it's not because they've been brainwashed or are lazy good for nothing hippies etc. They are becoming aware that the game is rigged and are complaining against the basic injustice of it all - As Geroge Carlin famously said - Its called the American Dream because you'd want to be asleep to believe it!!
Bullsh1t. Look at the people protesting in London, they are professional activists ::) and have never worked a day in their life. They would be better off playing the game than complaining about it but then again that would entail them actually doing something other than complaining.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 02:11:32 PM
I disagree with the majority of that Declan. I know self made millionaires in Ireland who took the chance and dreamed big and did everything they could to make it happen.
I make decent money in the U.S and always have made good enough money in any job I have worked in. None of it is by birth, or by exploitation of others. I'm not overly intelligent, I am not in any cliques or groups, I wouldn't be a good 'ole boy. And there are 1000s of us out there.
I remember being told by someone growing up that if you are rich someone else is living without. What a pile of shite.
The best thing you can do for poor people is not be one of them. If you have money you don't keep in a big stash in your mattress. Local businesses see it, barbers, butchers, restaurants, super markets, churches...it all trickles down.
I'll tell you what sickens me is the Irish begrudgery.
If I came home to Armagh tomorrow, broke and down on my luck I would have people lining up to pity and help me. Great fella there, God love him home from America without a penny. But if I come home with any sniff of success, and sign of doing well for myself, few people have anything good to say about you. Cnut home from America thinks he is the big shot.
And it isn't just people coming home with money. It's anybody at home who has money. They are begrudged. Business owners who have done well for themselves, shower of tramps.....
Some people are only happy when they are miserable and every else is too.
9 of the richest 50 people in history lived in the USA in the 1830s. 3 of the worlds current richest men were born within 3 years of each other in the same valley. It is called Silicon Valley. Some were talented and worked hard without question, but they simply caught a wave 99.9% of us will never see.
Source: Outliers -The Story of Success. (No doubt TO will claim it was written by a Commie).
Look at Bernie Madoff. He was simply a bully. His staff and clients were petrified of him. Crazy as it sounds, that, and some irrelevant finance qualification, was all he had going for him.
You are part of a pyramid scheme. If you get to the top you can make serious money as long as your are smart enough to get out in time. If not you will be spat out like an X-Factor contestant.
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 05:11:12 PM
9 of the richest 50 people in history lived in the USA in the 1830s. 3 of the worlds current richest men were born within 3 years of each other in the same valley. It is called Silicon Valley. Some were talented and worked hard without question, but they simply caught a wave 99.9% of us will never see. Source: Outliers -The Story of Success. (No doubt TO will claim it was written by a Commie).
Look at Bernie Madoff. He was simply a bully. His staff and clients were petrified of him. Crazy as it sounds, that, and some irrelevant finance qualification, was all he had going for him.
You are part of a pyramid scheme. If you get to the top you can make serious money as long as your are smart enough to get out in time. If not you will be spat out like an X-Factor contestant.
This is why you are so mad????
What are you even talking about Muppet? You are grabbing at straws, try to stay focused here for a second and make some coherent points.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 05:11:12 PM
9 of the richest 50 people in history lived in the USA in the 1830s. 3 of the worlds current richest men were born within 3 years of each other in the same valley. It is called Silicon Valley. Some were talented and worked hard without question, but they simply caught a wave 99.9% of us will never see. Source: Outliers -The Story of Success. (No doubt TO will claim it was written by a Commie).
Look at Bernie Madoff. He was simply a bully. His staff and clients were petrified of him. Crazy as it sounds, that, and some irrelevant finance qualification, was all he had going for him.
You are part of a pyramid scheme. If you get to the top you can make serious money as long as your are smart enough to get out in time. If not you will be spat out like an X-Factor contestant.
This is why you are so mad????
What are you even talking about Muppet? You are grabbing at straws, try to stay focused here for a second and make some coherent points.
This is what happens when he shows his hand....incoherence!
...no you'll have to wait to one of his peers makes some kind of an
argument that he can then piggy back to try to appear smart,
more often smart arsed than smart though in fairness
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 05:22:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 05:11:12 PM
9 of the richest 50 people in history lived in the USA in the 1830s. 3 of the worlds current richest men were born within 3 years of each other in the same valley. It is called Silicon Valley. Some were talented and worked hard without question, but they simply caught a wave 99.9% of us will never see. Source: Outliers -The Story of Success. (No doubt TO will claim it was written by a Commie).
Look at Bernie Madoff. He was simply a bully. His staff and clients were petrified of him. Crazy as it sounds, that, and some irrelevant finance qualification, was all he had going for him.
You are part of a pyramid scheme. If you get to the top you can make serious money as long as your are smart enough to get out in time. If not you will be spat out like an X-Factor contestant.
This is why you are so mad????
What are you even talking about Muppet? You are grabbing at straws, try to stay focused here for a second and make some coherent points.
This is what happens when he shows his hand....incoherence!
...no you'll have to wait to one of his peers makes some kind of an
argument that he can then piggy back to try to appear smart,
more often smart arsed than smart though in fairness
He's over at Politics.ie mining his response as you speak ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 05:00:07 PM
Ok now were getting down to the point of where its blatantly obvious that you
once again are over your head and have no clue as to how to even make a point
...merely humming along with the choir here in a big boy conversation
in yet another attempt to show how smart you are...not!
What if (for a third time) I was to let you in on the wee secret that none of the three of us work on Wall St...how does that factor in to your non answer?
Just for your benefit, believe me I am not under the impression that any of you 3 are Jamie Dimon & co.. ;D
The argument here is that Wall Street does not create wealth. It simply takes it off the saps and passes to a few bullies. Wall Street did create wealth decades ago when it was the source of funding for real businesses, that made real stuff, mainly in the USA.
After decades of LBOs, Junk Bonds, CDOs etc it is now just a pretentious version of Vegas.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 05:11:12 PM
9 of the richest 50 people in history lived in the USA in the 1830s. 3 of the worlds current richest men were born within 3 years of each other in the same valley. It is called Silicon Valley. Some were talented and worked hard without question, but they simply caught a wave 99.9% of us will never see. Source: Outliers -The Story of Success. (No doubt TO will claim it was written by a Commie).
Look at Bernie Madoff. He was simply a bully. His staff and clients were petrified of him. Crazy as it sounds, that, and some irrelevant finance qualification, was all he had going for him.
You are part of a pyramid scheme. If you get to the top you can make serious money as long as your are smart enough to get out in time. If not you will be spat out like an X-Factor contestant.
This is why you are so mad????
What are you even talking about Muppet? You are grabbing at straws, try to stay focused here for a second and make some coherent points.
You are the one boasting about how successful you are and then whinging about Irish begrudgers. I can assure you I am not even remotely bothered by you or Wall Street. This is a discussion, that's all.
As for the points being made, do you seriously not have the foggiest idea what Declan and I are talking about? Seriously?
Or are you doing a Tyrone's Own and just rant? Do you people take classes in this or something?
Quote from: thebigfella on November 08, 2011, 05:30:24 PM
He's over at Politics.ie mining his response as you speak ;)
::) ::)
You should try books.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 03:41:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 11:40:10 PM
Actually, my news source of choice is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
The Daily show is for teenagers and gobshites who don't realize its purely satirical.... and em, you're no teenager ;)
...explains the level of smug ignorance really.
Oh really? (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-september-3-2008/sarah-palin-gender-card)
I'm not boasting about anything. I don't like to be categorized by Muppets because I have done alright for myself. I don't like to be labelled a bully, an extortionist or have claims made against me that I was born into my situation or manufactured it some way or other.
You are not making any coherent points that is why I have asked you to clarify or make sense of what you are ranting about.
Quoting Gladwell's latest book (if you have read it) doesn't provide the answers. He is one person with one opinion. His ideas on creating a society that provides opportunity for all are wonderful, but does it not exist already? Are the laws of success not the same for everyone? He labels circumstance, cultural background and opportunity as attributes of success. He also admits that some people earn and deserve their success.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 05:51:14 PM
I'm not boasting about anything. I don't like to be categorized by Muppets because I have done alright for myself. I don't like to be labelled a bully, an extortionist or have claims made against me that I was born into my situation or manufactured it some way or other.
You are not making any coherent points that is why I have asked you to clarify or make sense of what you are ranting about.
Quoting Gladwell's latest book (if you have read it) doesn't provide the answers. He is one person with one opinion. His ideas on creating a society that provides opportunity for all are wonderful, but does it not exist already? Are the laws of success not the same for everyone? He labels circumstance, cultural background and opportunity as attributes of success. He also admits that some people earn and deserve their success.
If you are talking about
Outliers that is not what the book is about. It is analysis not a proposal. He does't even pretend to provide answers, he merely strips bare a few illusions.
Meanwhile, you really are way way off the point here. No one here is labeling you a bully or an extortionist. Unless of course you are Bernie Madoff. We are pointing out that the likes of Madoff and company are not simply the hard-working geniuses some people, particularly themselves, would have us believe they are. The corollary is also true.
Well you have implied so far throughout your points that "if you're not with us you're against us"
I don't agree with the protests whatsoever and as a result I have fallen victim to your labels.
Correct me if i am wrong....... maybe your statements were not directed at me...
Gladwell's analysis isn't just a statement of facts. He writes and compiles his information with a deliberate purpose. He is by no means a neutral and his ongoing commentary throughout the book would indicate that.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 06:07:54 PM
Well you have implied so far throughout your points that "if you're not with us you're against us"
I don't agree with the protests whatsoever and as a result I have fallen victim to your labels.
Correct me if i am wrong....... maybe your statements were not directed at me...
Gladwell's analysis isn't just a statement of facts. He writes and compiles his information with a deliberate purpose. He is by no means a neutral and his ongoing commentary throughout the book would indicate that.
The 'if you are not with us you are against us' mantra is quoting the Neo-Cons.
Tell me when Gladwell has a chapter on age cutoffs affecting the development of future sports professionals, or a chapter on the Avianca air crash in New York which outlines cultural differences to authority, how does that fit an anti-Republican agenda?
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 05:40:59 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 08, 2011, 05:30:24 PM
He's over at Politics.ie mining his response as you speak ;)
::) ::)
You should try books.
Or a dictionary...oops to late, ...Corollary, great word Muppet!
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 06:17:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 05:40:59 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 08, 2011, 05:30:24 PM
He's over at Politics.ie mining his response as you speak ;)
::) ::)
You should try books.
Or a dictionary...oops to late, ...Corollary, great word Muppet!
You are like a child with a rattle. You get your attention and you are happy.
Here, have some more attention. ;D ;D
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 06:22:22 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 06:17:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 05:40:59 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 08, 2011, 05:30:24 PM
He's over at Politics.ie mining his response as you speak ;)
::) ::)
You should try books.
Or a dictionary...oops to late, ...Corollary, great word Muppet!
You are like a child with a rattle. You get your attention and you are happy.
Here, have some more attention. ;D ;D
Mind your tail you don't step on it again...its never pretty ;)
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 06:28:26 PM
Mind your tail you don't step on it again...its never pretty ;)
Tell me, when you post such knock-out posts such as this do you run
a whooping and a hollering around the screen?
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 06:15:56 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 06:07:54 PM
Well you have implied so far throughout your points that "if you're not with us you're against us"
I don't agree with the protests whatsoever and as a result I have fallen victim to your labels.
Correct me if i am wrong....... maybe your statements were not directed at me...
Gladwell's analysis isn't just a statement of facts. He writes and compiles his information with a deliberate purpose. He is by no means a neutral and his ongoing commentary throughout the book would indicate that.
The 'if you are not with us you are against us' mantra is quoting the Neo-Cons.
Tell me when Gladwell has a chapter on age cutoffs affecting the development of future sports professionals, or a chapter on the Avianca air crash in New York which outlines cultural differences to authority, how does that fit an anti-Republican agenda?
so he's not a liberal?
Only in the USA have I seen the word "liberal" routinely used as a pejorative term. I know the word has been traduced in the opposite sense on this side of the pond, where it's self-proclaimed liberals themselves who are generally anything but liberal.
But the American right seems to be more correct than they understand when they use the word as a term of abuse. The antonym of "liberal" is not "conservative", it's "repressive" (in some dictionaries - "narrow-minded" in others).
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 06:32:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 06:15:56 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 06:07:54 PM
Well you have implied so far throughout your points that "if you're not with us you're against us"
I don't agree with the protests whatsoever and as a result I have fallen victim to your labels.
Correct me if i am wrong....... maybe your statements were not directed at me...
Gladwell's analysis isn't just a statement of facts. He writes and compiles his information with a deliberate purpose. He is by no means a neutral and his ongoing commentary throughout the book would indicate that.
The 'if you are not with us you are against us' mantra is quoting the Neo-Cons.
Tell me when Gladwell has a chapter on age cutoffs affecting the development of future sports professionals, or a chapter on the Avianca air crash in New York which outlines cultural differences to authority, how does that fit an anti-Republican agenda?
so he's not a liberal?
I know nothing about him other than having read two of his books. Neither were remotely political.
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 03:08:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 11:40:10 PM
Actually, my news source of choice is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
The daily show has a liberal slant, as does John Stewart, you are a one trick pony then, thats what i thought. I think it is dangerous to listen to John Stewart and no one else, hell I am interested in what he has to say, he is an intelligent man and he is entertaining if not a little too left wing for my taste.
Beck is a feckin fruitcake and should not be taken seriously but for every beck you have an equally moronic liberal.
There are a lot of lazy, smug gits on this thread, neandertals who seem to think FOX bad CNN good, you are a sad lot really but it explains a lot.
Riddle me this, do any of you think that there is a bad liberal news station out there??? probably not right!
I know, why don't we just cave and become liberals, that way we will all think alike, be on the right side and that way i can get my cred back, whatever the fcuk that is.
You are like a flock of sheep and have about the same amount of imagination, FOX news, Fox news. Fox new's, you idiots think that is all we do and were we get our information from, you are wrong.
Rant over.
Everyone have a nice day now. (except you liberal motherfcukers) :P
One last thing, once again America needs a third party option.
FFS! You people need to calm down and stop jumping up and down screaming out your hatred of the dreaded "liberals". If you'd open your mind and listen to what I have to say you'd find that I'm to the left in some areas and to the right in others. The problem with US politics is that it's skewed so far to the right that people like you think that anyone who isn't a gun-toting bible-thumping xenophobic redneck must be a pinko-liberal hippie.
Here is my list of main news sources:
The Economist
Al Jazeera
BBC
RTE
And for specific topics I go to Google News and get it from a variety of sources. The Washington Post and Guardian seem to come up a lot in those searches.
News sources I don't take seriously:
Fox
CNN
MSNBC
Just about any mainstream US cable network
British tabloid and Tory press
For entertainment I turn to Jon Stewart and Colbert.
There, happy now?
Quote from: Hardy on November 08, 2011, 06:34:06 PM
Only in the USA have I seen the word "liberal" routinely used as a pejorative term. I know the word has been traduced in the opposite sense on this side of the pond, where it's self-proclaimed liberals themselves who are generally anything but liberal.
But the American right seems to be more correct than they understand when they use the word as a term of abuse. The antonym of "liberal" is not "conservative", it's "repressive" (in some dictionaries - "narrow-minded" in others).
I noticed that myself when I first landed in the US. I couldn't understand why some people were jumping up and down in rage at the thought of "liberals" existing. I remember the first time I saw someone writing "I hate liberals," I asked him why he felt that way. He started mouthing off about something called school bussing.
I'd never seen that kind of venom in political discourse in the UK. In fact in the UK the world "Liberal" means keeping government out of moral matters, supporting free trade, and only using government regulation where necessary. That's pretty close to my own viewpoint so I was a bit shocked to see myself being lumped in with communists when I got here.
I suppose the point is that in the Land of the Fee, there really is no left wing. It amuses Europeans that the Democrats, who would be to the right of Christian Democratic parties over here (i.e. one or two notches off the extreme right) are seen as pinko lefties in the USA.
Hardy, I'm with you on that. The Democratic Party is not the party I remember from my youth. They have turned their backs on the unions, middle-class people and the working poor. Right now I believe Obama will lose next November because of the economy and the fact that the Republicans are getting away with disenfranchising voters. If the Pukes don't win the election outright, they'll steal it again, as they did in 2000 and 2004. Hopefully, Mr.Wonderful and myself will be relocating to Ireland before next November and I won't have to put up with living under Repuke rule. I swore in 2008 if McCain won we would move then, but at least that didn't happen. I think the writer H.L. Mencken said "never underestimate the stupidity of the American people". Well I'm not, because I've seen how stupid the American people are and if they vote the Pukes in again, they will get everything they deserve.
As the getting news from the Daily Show, I watch it myself and believe me I'm no gobshite or teenager when it comes to American politics and history. I knew from the beginning that the Daily Show was satirical. Not like some people, who took Steven Colbert seriously.
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 08, 2011, 07:40:55 PM
I knew from the beginning that the Daily Show was satirical. Not like some people, who took Steven Colbert seriously.
Tee Hee
They say that if a parody is good enough, the victims of the parody will begin to think that the joke is actually on their opponents.
There are conservatives out there who are genuinely confused about Colbert in this way.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 08, 2011, 07:35:06 PM
I find that most of those who complain about Ireland being a nation of begrudgers are those who found their peers didn't react the way they wanted to about boasting and absurdly showing off their financial wealth in a fashion that makes the person listening think that the person speaking thinks they are a better person simply because of the money they make. It's certainly not just an Irish trait, it occurs in every country (even the USA) but Irish society have a peculiar trait of cynicism that doesn't like being made fools of even if they're practising the cute hoor tactic themselves. Places which are strongly influenced by Calvinism have perhaps an even stronger dislike to this than the Irish. Are there begrudgers in Ireland? Yep, but they're a minority. The majority have no problems with someone who has worked hard and not tread on people along the way to getting just reward for it.
That wouldn't be my experience Fionntamhnach but we'll disagree on it sure. Very few people would know anything about my financial situation, what I do or anything about me. I lead a very low key life. I don't need anyone's praise or recognition. I am friends with several ex-pats and we would all have the same experience so surely there must be something there.....
I do believe that cynicism and begrudgery are traits of the majority in Ireland. I think you don't realize how bad we all are until you move somewhere else where the glass is a bit more half full. My own cynicism is a daily struggle. But like somebody mentioned thats a different thread altogether.......
If I can back you up for a minute here from educating us all Eamonn
You didn't get around to this;
Do you or do you not think that Curleys and Emersons would have been/are incorporated?
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 08:08:50 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 08, 2011, 07:35:06 PM
I find that most of those who complain about Ireland being a nation of begrudgers are those who found their peers didn't react the way they wanted to about boasting and absurdly showing off their financial wealth in a fashion that makes the person listening think that the person speaking thinks they are a better person simply because of the money they make. It's certainly not just an Irish trait, it occurs in every country (even the USA) but Irish society have a peculiar trait of cynicism that doesn't like being made fools of even if they're practising the cute hoor tactic themselves. Places which are strongly influenced by Calvinism have perhaps an even stronger dislike to this than the Irish. Are there begrudgers in Ireland? Yep, but they're a minority. The majority have no problems with someone who has worked hard and not tread on people along the way to getting just reward for it.
That wouldn't be my experience Fionntamhnach but we'll disagree on it sure. Very few people would know anything about my financial situation, what I do or anything about me. I lead a very low key life. I don't need anyone's praise or recognition. I am friends with several ex-pats and we would all have the same experience so surely there must be something there.....
I do believe that cynicism and begrudgery are traits of the majority in Ireland. I think you don't realize how bad we all are until you move somewhere else where the glass is a bit more half full. My own cynicism is a daily struggle. But like somebody mentioned thats a different thread altogether.......
I'd agree that begrudgery is an Irish trait but if you go on while at home the way you've gone on on this thread I'm not surprised people think "big shot".
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 08, 2011, 07:40:55 PM
Hardy, I'm with you on that. The Democratic Party is not the party I remember from my youth. They have turned their backs on the unions, middle-class people and the working poor. Right now I believe Obama will lose next November because of the economy and the fact that the Republicans are getting away with disenfranchising voters. If the Pukes don't win the election outright, they'll steal it again, as they did in 2000 and 2004. Hopefully, Mr.Wonderful and myself will be relocating to Ireland before next November and I won't have to put up with living under Repuke rule. I swore in 2008 if McCain won we would move then, but at least that didn't happen. I think the writer H.L. Mencken said "never underestimate the stupidity of the American people". Well I'm not, because I've seen how stupid the American people are and if they vote the Pukes in again, they will get everything they deserve.
As the getting news from the Daily Show, I watch it myself and believe me I'm no gobshite or teenager when it comes to American politics and history. I knew from the beginning that the Daily Show was satirical. Not like some people, who took Steven Colbert seriously.
Mr and Mrs Wonderful ::) Can't make it under the Obama regime, it's policies and Chicago's cronyism, they are now forced to look elsewhere for handouts as the unions having bled the Country dry, can't sustain it's welfare and hand outs and so we'll go back to County Down while they're still providing free this that and the other, cause that's all we know.
You could have simply left it at that :'(
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 08, 2011, 08:25:58 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 08:08:50 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 08, 2011, 07:35:06 PM
I find that most of those who complain about Ireland being a nation of begrudgers are those who found their peers didn't react the way they wanted to about boasting and absurdly showing off their financial wealth in a fashion that makes the person listening think that the person speaking thinks they are a better person simply because of the money they make. It's certainly not just an Irish trait, it occurs in every country (even the USA) but Irish society have a peculiar trait of cynicism that doesn't like being made fools of even if they're practising the cute hoor tactic themselves. Places which are strongly influenced by Calvinism have perhaps an even stronger dislike to this than the Irish. Are there begrudgers in Ireland? Yep, but they're a minority. The majority have no problems with someone who has worked hard and not tread on people along the way to getting just reward for it.
That wouldn't be my experience Fionntamhnach but we'll disagree on it sure. Very few people would know anything about my financial situation, what I do or anything about me. I lead a very low key life. I don't need anyone's praise or recognition. I am friends with several ex-pats and we would all have the same experience so surely there must be something there.....
I do believe that cynicism and begrudgery are traits of the majority in Ireland. I think you don't realize how bad we all are until you move somewhere else where the glass is a bit more half full. My own cynicism is a daily struggle. But like somebody mentioned thats a different thread altogether.......
I'd agree that begrudgery is an Irish trait but if you go on while at home the way you've gone on on this thread I'm not surprised people think "big shot".
Any man that denies begrudgery, spite and jealousy isn't rampant at home is talking out of his hole...Fact!
Where's muppet when you need him to put the boot in to his own Country and back me up here :D
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 08:10:43 PM
If I can back you up for a minute here from educating us all Eamonn
You didn't get around to this;
Do you or do you not think that Curleys and Emersons would have been/are incorporated?
Companies like that tend to incorporate and go for Limited status. Why do you ask?
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 05:51:14 PM
I'm not boasting about anything. I don't like to be categorized by Muppets because I have done alright for myself. I don't like to be labelled a bully, an extortionist or have claims made against me that I was born into my situation or manufactured it some way or other.
You are not making any coherent points that is why I have asked you to clarify or make sense of what you are ranting about.
Quoting Gladwell's latest book (if you have read it) doesn't provide the answers. He is one person with one opinion. His ideas on creating a society that provides opportunity for all are wonderful, but does it not exist already? Are the laws of success not the same for everyone? He labels circumstance, cultural background and opportunity as attributes of success. He also admits that some people earn and deserve their success.
'
You were not boasting, he was desperate, it's not your fault he hasn't a pot to piss in!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2011, 06:39:02 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 03:08:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2011, 11:40:10 PM
Actually, my news source of choice is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
The daily show has a liberal slant, as does John Stewart, you are a one trick pony then, thats what i thought. I think it is dangerous to listen to John Stewart and no one else, hell I am interested in what he has to say, he is an intelligent man and he is entertaining if not a little too left wing for my taste.
Beck is a feckin fruitcake and should not be taken seriously but for every beck you have an equally moronic liberal.
There are a lot of lazy, smug gits on this thread, neandertals who seem to think FOX bad CNN good, you are a sad lot really but it explains a lot.
Riddle me this, do any of you think that there is a bad liberal news station out there??? probably not right!
I know, why don't we just cave and become liberals, that way we will all think alike, be on the right side and that way i can get my cred back, whatever the fcuk that is.
You are like a flock of sheep and have about the same amount of imagination, FOX news, Fox news. Fox new's, you idiots think that is all we do and were we get our information from, you are wrong.
Rant over.
Everyone have a nice day now. (except you liberal motherfcukers) :P
One last thing, once again America needs a third party option.
FFS! You people need to calm down and stop jumping up and down screaming out your hatred of the dreaded "liberals". If you'd open your mind and listen to what I have to say you'd find that I'm to the left in some areas and to the right in others. The problem with US politics is that it's skewed so far to the right that people like you think that anyone who isn't a gun-toting bible-thumping xenophobic redneck must be a pinko-liberal hippie.
Here is my list of main news sources:
The Economist
Al Jazeera
BBC
RTE
And for specific topics I go to Google News and get it from a variety of sources. The Washington Post and Guardian seem to come up a lot in those searches.
News sources I don't take seriously:
Fox
CNN
MSNBC
Just about any mainstream US cable network
British tabloid and Tory press
For entertainment I turn to Jon Stewart and Colbert.
There, happy now?
I am more libertarian than anything, i have consistently said that I think the states need a viable third party but I would rather the Republician party running things than the Democrats, the democrats have brought this country to the brink of economic ruin, look at the reign of the current president, he has been cavalier in the way he has managed the purse strings and we are fecked for generations as a result.
I tell you what, when you plonkers give me more credit for having the ability to get all my information from Fox I will give you credit for that interesting list you put up there.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2011, 08:46:10 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 08, 2011, 08:10:43 PM
If I can back you up for a minute here from educating us all Eamonn
You didn't get around to this;
Do you or do you not think that Curleys and Emersons would have been/are incorporated?
Companies like that tend to incorporate and go for Limited status. Why do you ask?
Thanks....No further questions your honor.
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 08:55:34 PM
I tell you what, when you plonkers give me more credit for having the ability to get all my information from Fox I will give you credit for that interesting list you put up there.
We're not giving you credit for getting your information from Fox, we're taking the piss out of you for it.
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 08, 2011, 07:40:55 PM
Hardy, I'm with you on that. The Democratic Party is not the party I remember from my youth. They have turned their backs on the unions, middle-class people and the working poor. Right now I believe Obama will lose next November because of the economy and the fact that the Republicans are getting away with disenfranchising voters. If the Pukes don't win the election outright, they'll steal it again, as they did in 2000 and 2004. Hopefully, Mr.Wonderful and myself will be relocating to Ireland before next November and I won't have to put up with living under Repuke rule. I swore in 2008 if McCain won we would move then, but at least that didn't happen. I think the writer H.L. Mencken said "never underestimate the stupidity of the American people". Well I'm not, because I've seen how stupid the American people are and if they vote the Pukes in again, they will get everything they deserve.
As the getting news from the Daily Show, I watch it myself and believe me I'm no gobshite or teenager when it comes to American politics and history. I knew from the beginning that the Daily Show was satirical. Not like some people, who took Steven Colbert seriously.
congratulations on having the ability to recognize satire, bully for you!
I think you do yourself a disservice redandwhack,I think you are a gobshite when it comes to American politics and history, you don't even know enough to know that the Republicians won the elections in 2000 & 2004 democratically, why didn't you fcuk off to Ireland then? I will tell you why, like most uber democrats you talk out of both sides of your mouth, and if you would move to a different continent because a political party was guaranteed four years of power in the Oval office you are indeed the stupid bimbo I took you for. ever hear of the House or representatives and the senate??? What would a Republic but for a Senate?
I despise what the democrats stand for and what they have done to this country over the last three years, you don't see me fecking off back to Ireland because the American people voted in the wrong party do you??
I sucked it up, wished the new President all the best and hoped it wouldn't be too bad under his party, I was wrong, it is worse.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 08:55:34 PM
I tell you what, when you plonkers give me more credit for having the ability to get all my information from Fox I will give you credit for that interesting list you put up there.
We're not giving you credit for getting your information from Fox, we're taking the piss out of you for it.
You cannot even read and comprehend what is written can you? what is the point of arguing with you?
Very simple question, under which president's watch was TARP enacted?
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 08, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 08:55:34 PM
I tell you what, when you plonkers give me more credit for having the ability to get all my information from Fox I will give you credit for that interesting list you put up there.
We're not giving you credit for getting your information from Fox, we're taking the piss out of you for it.
You cannot even read and comprehend what is written can you? what is the point of arguing with you?
Ah leave him off Stew, like their politicians, in trying to gain ground out of desperation they lose a little bit more everyday, have at it lads ;D
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 08, 2011, 09:32:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 08:55:34 PMI am more libertarian than anything, i have consistently said that I think the states need a viable third party but I would rather the Republician party running things than the Democrats, the democrats have brought this country to the brink of economic ruin, look at the reign of the current president, he has been cavalier in the way he has managed the purse strings and we are fecked for generations as a result.
Obama's attempts to get the US economy back on its feet have certainly not been as successful as hoped, but it's ridiculous to lay all of it on the feet of the Democrats, Republicans also share blame. Of the five POTUS over the last thirty years, only one has left office with the federal government having an overall surplus. Regan and both Bush's ended up with a deficit, the last of the three ran up a huge deficit. If the experience of the Clinton administration shows one thing, it is that having an opposing party in the house and senate compared to the president along with both willing to work together seems to work best for US Federal politics. At the moment there is absolutely no sign of that happening, and it's leaning from crisis to crisis with sides being polarised.
The republicans went to war in Iraq FFS.
Any sign of those WMD yet, TO ?
And how is that Iraqi Democracy thing working out? Has it convinced the Arabs to side with Israel yet?
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 08, 2011, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2011, 10:07:26 PMThe republicans went to war in Iraq FFS.
I kinda know of that.
But the cost, Fionntamhnach. The clowns can't talk about fiscal responsibility. Iraq cost 2 trillion. Afghan was 1 trillion.
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 08:47:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 05:51:14 PM
I'm not boasting about anything. I don't like to be categorized by Muppets because I have done alright for myself. I don't like to be labelled a bully, an extortionist or have claims made against me that I was born into my situation or manufactured it some way or other.
You are not making any coherent points that is why I have asked you to clarify or make sense of what you are ranting about.
Quoting Gladwell's latest book (if you have read it) doesn't provide the answers. He is one person with one opinion. His ideas on creating a society that provides opportunity for all are wonderful, but does it not exist already? Are the laws of success not the same for everyone? He labels circumstance, cultural background and opportunity as attributes of success. He also admits that some people earn and deserve their success.
'
You were not boasting, he was desperate, it's not your fault he hasn't a pot to piss in!
Well, well, well.
That says it all right there.
Bravo, you have proved us all 100% correct, sadly.
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 10:40:10 PM
Bravo, you have proved us all 100% correct, sadly.
No, Muppet. You twisted and turned and ranted and raved in this thread - until you got the bite, and now it's proved as some sort of victory.
I am completely surprised at some of your comments on here, in particular drawing out statements that should stand up to scruitiny and embroiling posters in one of the most twisted threads (and efforts) I've seen on here in a long time. Sadly, is right.
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2011, 10:46:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 10:40:10 PM
Bravo, you have proved us all 100% correct, sadly.
No, Muppet. You twisted and turned and ranted and raved in this thread - until you got the bite, and now it's proved as some sort of victory.
I am completely surprised at some of your comments on here, in particular drawing out statements that should stand up to scruitiny and embroiling posters in one of the most twisted threads (and efforts) I've seen on here in a long time. Sadly, is right.
Explain?
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 10:40:10 PM
Quote from: stew on November 08, 2011, 08:47:45 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 08, 2011, 05:51:14 PM
I'm not boasting about anything. I don't like to be categorized by Muppets because I have done alright for myself. I don't like to be labelled a bully, an extortionist or have claims made against me that I was born into my situation or manufactured it some way or other.
You are not making any coherent points that is why I have asked you to clarify or make sense of what you are ranting about.
Quoting Gladwell's latest book (if you have read it) doesn't provide the answers. He is one person with one opinion. His ideas on creating a society that provides opportunity for all are wonderful, but does it not exist already? Are the laws of success not the same for everyone? He labels circumstance, cultural background and opportunity as attributes of success. He also admits that some people earn and deserve their success.
'
You were not boasting, he was desperate, it's not your fault he hasn't a pot to piss in!
Well, well, well.
That says it all right there.
Bravo, you have proved us all 100% correct, sadly.
You said the man was boasting, he was not, he was giving his opinion and giving of his own personal experiences, you then slated him for it.
You are a begrudger muppet.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 05:02:52 PM
Muppet I think its a bit far fetched to draw comparisons there in fairness.
Yes big business is a problem and yes the distribution of wealth is a problem. What I don't agree with is the attitude of 'the world owes me a living.'
Look around the bars in Ireland at the weekend and its the same people, in the same trendy new clothes, with the iPhones and the new cars, the holidays to Spain once a year, yet they don't have any money. Living beyond their means is the problem.
Couple that with the laziness that has crept into the country and you have a problem. People don't want to work and expect to get paid a lot of money for not working.
I work about 60-70 hours a week, God forbid if I was out of work in the morning and couldn't get work doing something similar to what I am doing I would be on a building site or behind a bar pulling pints or manual labour on a farm. You reap what you sow.
When you took issue with this post, the whole thread went left. This post got extrapolated into a discussion about begrudgery, defence of wall street, boasting etc. In my opinion I think this post is completely truthful - and I do not (nor do I think this post does), defend anything that has happened in Wall street. I think there are many truths in this post:
1. Big Business is a problem
2. The distribution of wealth is a problem
3. There is a western world wide issue (ive even been guilty of it myself) of not living within the means available to you
4. There is an attitude of entitelment and that the world owes (I have seen it in my own workplace, and community)
5. There are people, many people who are not prepared to help themselves (there are in addition - there are as many people who unfortunately are not being afforded the opportunity to help themselves - see points 1 and 2)
6. What is boastful, or lecturing about suggesting that if IM, (or indeed myself as we had MORE layoffs last week, with more in the pipeline), were to be out of work in the morning - there wouldn't be efforts going into a mass protest - rather I'd be out hauling bricks, or lpulling pints to make ends meet?
I'm gonna weigh in here as an onlooker. Muppet, it is well documented that you have issues with Stew and TO. Not sure of your previous with Iceman but in my opinion you deliberately twisted his argument. He appeared to be making the perfectly reasonable argument that he "has done alright" (hardly a boast!), has worked hard to get there and if he got laid off he'd do the same thing again. Hardly the arrogant boasts of a raving right winger. If you were a woman I'd tell you to come back in a week when you're feeling better ;)
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2011, 10:59:50 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 05:02:52 PM
Muppet I think its a bit far fetched to draw comparisons there in fairness.
Yes big business is a problem and yes the distribution of wealth is a problem. What I don't agree with is the attitude of 'the world owes me a living.'
Look around the bars in Ireland at the weekend and its the same people, in the same trendy new clothes, with the iPhones and the new cars, the holidays to Spain once a year, yet they don't have any money. Living beyond their means is the problem.
Couple that with the laziness that has crept into the country and you have a problem. People don't want to work and expect to get paid a lot of money for not working.
I work about 60-70 hours a week, God forbid if I was out of work in the morning and couldn't get work doing something similar to what I am doing I would be on a building site or behind a bar pulling pints or manual labour on a farm. You reap what you sow.
When you took issue with this post, the whole thread went left. This post got extrapolated into a discussion about begrudgery, defence of wall street, boasting etc. In my opinion I think this post is completely truthful - and I do not (nor do I think this post does), defend anything that has happened in Wall street. I think there are many truths in this post:
1. Big Business is a problem
2. The distribution of wealth is a problem
3. There is a western world wide issue (ive even been guilty of it myself) of not living within the means available to you
4. There is an attitude of entitelment and that the world owes (I have seen it in my own workplace, and community)
5. There are people, many people who are not prepared to help themselves (there are in addition - there are as many people who unfortunately are not being afforded the opportunity to help themselves - see points 1 and 2)
6. What is boastful, or lecturing about suggesting that if IM, (or indeed myself as we had MORE layoffs last week, with more in the pipeline), were to be out of work in the morning - there wouldn't be efforts going into a mass protest - rather I'd be out hauling bricks, or lpulling pints to make ends meet?
Ok let's do this.
To me, and evidentially others in Ireland, that post says the following about Ireland:
1. He fires the old chestnut about 'the world owes me a living'. You live in the States, you know exactly what is behind that and you of all people usually run a mile from that crap.
2. He says look around the bars of Ireland at all these people living beyond their means. 4 years too late of course.
3. Then we have the predictable 'People don't want to work and expect to get paid a lot of money for not working' after the usual laziness accusation.
Get the picture, I'm broke, you owe me a living, I'm lazy, I deserve more money for doing nothing?
4. The only people on here who talk about how hard they work and how much they earn are those lambasting the rest of us, without even the slightest clue as to our circumstances.
Stew let the cat out of the bag by assuming I haven't a pot to piss in. That said it all and you quickly tried to deflect the point away from that.
You have reacted to back up an acquaintance or mate or whatever. Very noble but from what I have read over the years you don't buy into that Republican -
survival of the fittest as long as you don't mean Darwin- rhetoric.
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 08:28:46 PM
Quote from: eddie d on November 07, 2011, 08:01:58 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 07:11:36 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 07, 2011, 06:59:12 PM
What about Madoff and MF Global? Was that 'half' down to the laziness of the poor as well? AIG? Bear Sterns & Lehmans and the 100 odd other banks that have closed in the States in the last 3 years?
How does all this stop anybody getting of their arse and getting a job?
If there were 40 jobs going, and 300 apply for them, are 260 people that dont get a job lazy?
but are there only 40 jobs going? Or only 40 jobs going that you would actually do? Meanwhile there are another 300 jobs that you wouldn't lower yourself to do..... that are being snapped up by other Eastern Europeans and other Internationals prepared to come to Ireland and do whatever it takes....
hardly call this a reasonable argument, that anyone that doesnt have a job is lazy, plus when you use phrases like 'Lower yourself to do' suggests you are of the opinion that you are better than people who work in bars etc
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 08, 2011, 11:09:31 PM
I'm gonna weigh in here as an onlooker. Muppet, it is well documented that you have issues with Stew and TO. Not sure of your previous with Iceman but in my opinion you deliberately twisted his argument. He appeared to be making the perfectly reasonable argument that he "has done alright" (hardly a boast!), has worked hard to get there and if he got laid off he'd do the same thing again. Hardly the arrogant boasts of a raving right winger. If you were a woman I'd tell you to come back in a week when you're feeling better ;)
What about this:
Quote from: The Iceman on April 15, 2010, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on April 15, 2010, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 15, 2010, 04:00:28 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on April 15, 2010, 03:41:33 PM
I think you greatly underestimate the depth of hurt and anger perpetrated on this nation by the church for decades... and they were supposed to be our moral guardians. It runs very very deep and has caused many broken lives, suicides and alcoholism-drug addiction. If any other organisation had done the same, there would have been calls for it to be disbanded.
Thats if you look at it as an organisation or business Fox. Some people don't. I don't think God can be disbanded no matter how hard you try.
I certainly don't underestimate the hurt - I come from a wider family circle deeply affected by the abuse and being involved in Youth Ministry over the years I have had contact with a lot of the priests who have since been exposed. Not an easy thing to come to terms with or reconcile but I won't jump ship.....
Yet again the assumption that to leave the catholic church means disbanding God, like they have the monopoly on God. I left the church years ago... so you assume I walked away from God. No... I walked away from the church... thank God ;)
The difference in us is that I assume God meant what He said and I believe the specific instructions given to us in how to Worship Him and follow Him. You assume He doesn't care.
I can't remember who said this but I once heard:
The Devil has tried 3 times to take the world.
The first time he tried to convince us that God didn't exist - but deep down people knew this wasn't true and it didn't work.
The second time the devil tried to convince us that he didn't exist - but with all the evil in the world people knew that wasn't true either.
The third time the devil convinced us that God doesn't care. Each to their own, live and let live, be a good person and follow God as you see fit - and the devil won.
OK. Let's really do this.
1. Muppet: You live in the States, you know exactly what is behind that and you of all people usually run a mile from that crap.
Puckoon: I genuinely do not know what this means. I live in the states, yes. I live here primarily because my daughter lives here and I will do whatever it takes to be with her in my lifetime. I generally love the place. This love stems from the life I have here, the many Americans I call friends. Not from some flag waving, patriotic, obliviously unaware of the problems of the USA ingrained standpoint.
2. Muppet: He says look around the bars of Ireland at all these people living beyond their means. 4 years too late of course.
Puckoon: - As you allude to in a later post - IM is an aquaintance of mine. He probably had this same view point 4 years ago - going on what I know of him. Do you think that no one ever thought they were living beyond their means until the bubble crashed?
3. Muppet: Then we have the predictable 'People don't want to work and expect to get paid a lot of money for not working' after the usual laziness accusation.
Get the picture, I'm broke, you owe me a living, I'm lazy, I deserve more money for doing nothing?
Puckoon: Does the fact that is predictable, remove any value in truth from this? Are you suggesting it doesnt exist?
4. Muppet: 4. The only people on here who talk about how hard they work and how much they earn are those lambasting the rest of us, without even the slightest clue as to our circumstances.
Puckoon: I don't believe that the post was designed to lambast anyone. If out of some random coincidence something I have said is hurtful, or close to the bone from a personal standpoint - I'd apologize profousely. It's reference to a general attitude that can exist. I've been unemployed myself in the not to distant past. It is extremely difficult. Had the law allowed me I would have done absolutely anything rather than be unemployed. As it was - I had to wait 10 months for a science job in order to remain legal in the US. No dole, no benefits, no money.
5. Muppet - Stew let the cat out of the bag and you very quickly tried to deflect the point away from that
Puckoon: I am not deflecting anything stew said. You, Stew and TO have differences that overpower most discussions on here. Rather I finally felt like saying what I wanted to say 5 pages previousl. That is the truth of it.
6. I am not backing up an friend or aquaintance. I do think you lost the run in this thread. I see no problem with the post of Iceman - infact I commend him for it. And you are right, I do not buy into the Republican rhetoric. This thread just gave me a headache and I decided to post in it after a few torturous days reading of it.
1. Agreed
2. Agreed with the caveat that are his thoughts 4 years ago not what people are protesting about? Bailing out a system that lives beyond its means?
3. Of course it exists, but not in the minds of everyone who isn't a Republican.
4. You said nothing that offended me. You are always a reasonable poster which is why I am taken aback.
5. ?
6. I genuinely find it odd that people would continue to read stuff that really bothers them. This is debate, sure it might get lively at times but I don't take it that seriously and I'm certain TO doesn't. Stew and IM, dunno.
Excellent post Fionntamhnach:
Here's another perspective on it:
Why the Occupy Movement is Good for Our Health
by Julie Matthaei and Neil Wollman
Recently, the Congressional Budget Office released a report on income inequality which found that the incomes of the top 1% nearly tripled between 1979 and 2007, whereas those of the middle class increased by less than forty percent. In his 2007 study, Jared Bernstein found that the after-tax income of the top 1% was 21 times higher than that of middle income families in 2005, compared to "only" 8 times higher in 1979. Indeed, inequality has been on the increase.
The burgeoning Occupy Wall Street movement, and its slogan, "We are the 99%," is drawing critical attention to the grossly unequal distribution of income and wealth in the U.S. Critiques include the injustice of the high incomes (and lack of incarceration) of Wall Street executives, given that their illegal actions caused the unemployment and homelessness of millions; the corrupting influence on the democratic process of the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few; and the basic indecency of the top 1% having much more than they could ever spend, while millions of Americans lack housing, health care, even food.
But there any many other serious societal problems associated with inequality which are not so obvious, and which have received little attention from the Occupy movement or the media. According to researchers Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett, more equal societies outperformed less equal ones in fifteen key ways:
•PHYSICAL HEALTH: People in more equal societies live longer, a smaller proportion of children die in infancy, and self-rated health is better.
•MENTAL HEALTH: People in more equal societies are far less likely to experience mental illness.
•DRUG ABUSE: People in more equal societies are less likely to use illegal drugs.
•EDUCATION: Children do better at school in more equal societies.
•IMPRISONMENT: Unequal societies are harsher (in that) they imprison a higher proportion of people.
•OBESITY: Obesity is less common in more equal societies.
•SOCIAL MOBILITY: There is more social mobility in more equal societies.
•TRUST AND COMMUNITY LIFE: Communities are more cohesive and people trust each other more in more equal societies.
•VIOLENCE: Homicide rates are lower and children experience less violence in more equal societies.
•TEENAGE BIRTHS: Teenage motherhood is less common in more unequal societies.
•CHILD WELL-BEING: UNICEF measures of child well-being are better in more equal societies.
In sum, income inequality is bad for our health, and for our society. This finding greatly strengthens the case for policies aimed at making our income distribution more equal.
The Occupy Movement's call for greater income equality also receives support from another finding of Wilkinson and Pickett. They found that reductions in the level of inequality improve social well-being more than do increases in GDP. This finding runs counter to a basic tenet of our economic policy – that GDP is the best measure of well-being. It suggests that pro-growth policies which lead to increased inequality may in fact make people worse off, even if they increase GDP. Conversely, increasing taxes on the rich would not only increase fairness, but also could increase well-being, even if they were to reduce GDP by discouraging capital investment.
It is time that we the people, and our representatives in Washington, realize how unhealthy inequality is for us and for our society. We should all applaud the Occupy Movement for bringing this problem to public attention, and we should join them in demanding that public officials act decisively to reverse this unhealthy trend. While the top 1% can use their economic advantage and associated power to further enhance their wealth, we encourage them instead to join the 99% in pushing for more equality--as Warren Buffet, Skip Gates, and others have –and, perhaps, also improve their health and well-being in the process. We should all seek the redistribution of income -- to "spread the wealth around' as put by then candidate Barack Obama to Joe the plumber -- with more benefits then either likely considered at the time.
47% of Americans wouldn't be able to raise $2000 in 30 days according to Harpers.
Are they all lazy?
Stew
You are like a flock of sheep and have about the same amount of imagination, FOX news, Fox news. Fox new's, you idiots think that is all we do and were we get our information from, you are wrong.
I think a reasonable number of posters here know there are 2 realities in the US. There is a liberal reality and a conservative reality. So you might not take your news from fox but it's somewhere else in the echo chamber.
Do you know this lady?
Ann Coulter, of course, is one of the masters of the hate genre, with many best sellers under her belt, some with alarming one-word titles (Guilty, Godless, Treason, Slander). In Demonic, Coulter begins by quoting from the Gospel of Mark (she knows her audience) and then dives straight in: "The demon is a mob, and the mob is demonic," she writes, continuing two paragraphs later:
The Democratic Party is the party of the mob, irrespective of what the mob represents. Democrats activate mobs, depend on mobs, coddle mobs, publicize and celebrate mobs—they are the mob. Indeed, the very idea of a "community organizer" is to stir up a mob for some political purpose.
Two key themes run through the book. First, Coulter tells her readers over and over again that everything—everything—they read and hear from nonconservative sources is a lie. For example:
The liberal fairy tale that Southern bigots simply switched parties, from Democrat to Republican, is exactly wrong. What happened is: The Democrats switched mobs. Democrats will champion any group of hooligans in order to attain power.... This is why the Democrats are able to transition so seamlessly from defending Bull Connor racists to defending Black Panthers, hippies, yippies, Weathermen, feminists, Bush derangement syndrome liberals, Moveon .org, and every other indignant, angry mob.
And this:
Nixon indeed had something called the "Southern Strategy," but it had nothing to do with appealing to racial resentment. His idea was to force nice patriotic, churchgoing Southerners to recognize what a rotten, treasonous bunch the Democrats had become. It was a regional version of his appeal to the Silent Majority.
And this:
Although it is accepted wisdom that the Allies were too harsh on Germany after World War I, leading to World War II, in fact, the truth is the opposite. We didn't crush Germany sufficiently the first time. Consequently, in 1919, a lot of Germans accepted the claim that they had not really been defeated but had just been "stabbed in the back" by civilians.
This last theory, she notes, was the handiwork of "documented crackpot" John Maynard Keynes.
Her second polemical point is to make Democrats and liberals and the left (it suits her purposes to use the terms interchangeably) into an alien and Other, and not American. Back-to-back chapters on the French and American revolutions describe, in perfervid but not inaccurate language, the violent nature of the French rebellion and the comparatively calm aspect of the American one. The point of this contrast is not that America is a superior nation to France, although that of course is noted. Rather, it's that Democrats and liberals and the left are like the French, and that "the men behind the American Revolution...were the very opposite of a mob. Today we would call them 'Republicans.'" The actual development of American political life from the Federalist period on, as described by such historians as Gordon Wood, has no place here.
Obama is somewhat incidental to the Coulter worldview, which holds that Democrats have been working toward the downfall of America since long before he came on the scene. But another, newer genre of hate books places Obama at the heart of the plot, as in Red Army by Aaron Klein and his coauthor, Brenda J. Elliott. Their earlier effort, The Manchurian President, made the extended New York Times best-seller list last year. Now they return—and how quickly!—to "document" the years-long drive to put Obama in the White House spearheaded by the likes of Michael Harrington's old Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee (DSOC). It's often hilarious to read about socialism's alleged stranglehold on the congressional Democratic Party, just because a few Democrats like Ron Dellums and Jerry Nadler have attended events organized by Democratic Socialists of America. A book like Red Army, with its simultaneously solemn and preposterous prose (Coulter at least is capable of getting off a few jokes), is proof that individual facts can all be true but can easily be combined in a way that tells a fundamentally false and silly story.
Unfortunately for a lot of people I know who are coming out of college and university now are working. But for nothing. A relative of mine can't even get a job in the local supervalu with his 1st class degree in engineering. But he gets up and he goes to an engineering office a few miles away and works there. And get he gets nothing for it but a word of thanks. But hey he's one of these lazy ones.
And the biggest joke of all is now tesco are offering "internships" for Christmas. In other words "stack our shelves for free". You'd be glad of the experience, right. It's not like Tesco can afford to pay these people, poor old tesco, barely fighting to survive. They'd love to spread the wealth around but these are hard times, right.
F**k tesco!
Quote from: thejuice on November 09, 2011, 10:21:10 AM
Unfortunately for a lot of people I know who are coming out of college and university now are working. But for nothing. A relative of mine can't even get a job in the local supervalu with his 1st class degree in engineering. But he gets up and he goes to an engineering office a few miles away and works there. And get he gets nothing for it but a word of thanks. But hey he's one of these lazy ones.
And the biggest joke of all is now tesco are offering "internships" for Christmas. In other words "stack our shelves for free". You'd be glad of the experience, right. It's not like Tesco can afford to pay these people, poor old tesco, barely fighting to survive. They'd love to spread the wealth around but these are hard times, right.
F**k tesco!
thejuice
Good post. TBH I think that is where the rage behind Occupy Wall St comes from. Stew and TO and the rest of the Yanks have a different view of reality and it has a big media component. And increasing numbers of people who have no jobs or who are underwater financially don't buy that shite any more. There is a big generational wealth transfer thing going on too and Iceman's position is pull the ladder up and that sort of talk doesn't go down well in the graduate age group.
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 11:46:27 PM
6. I genuinely find it odd that people would continue to read stuff that really bothers them. This is debate, sure it might get lively at times but I don't take it that seriously and I'm certain TO doesn't. Stew and IM, dunno.
Because you have to take the rough with the smooth. Inbetween lots of the nonsense there are the odd pearls of wisdom, and viewpoints you might never had taken the time to consider.
Infact the thread title is interesting. The occupy protests are like the Irish News. Used to be worth paying attention to - but have turned to shit in many departments.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on November 08, 2011, 11:58:07 PM
6. To me there has been a sneering tone here dismissing the OWS protests without getting to the root of why they're happening or what their reasons are. Should we be happy with the status quo? Many of those who are frustrated at not being able to get work are having to leave our shores to find it. That suits someone who is young with no ties, but if you have a family it's not as easy to do.
I agree with most of what you write here, with a few comments of my own. I am not enlightened enough in the financial world to understand the complete intricacies of the meltdown as you do. Muppet will testify on that as I've IMed him enough asking him to explain a few concepts to me.
Regarding the dismissal of the OWS protests - this would be my take. I don't dismiss the protest. I just do not understand the mindset. Maybe it's my Irish "put up with my lot" disposition. Maybe it's that I can't envisage being in a position to actually "go occupy wall street". The baby mama would have some choice words to say if I told her I was laid off and was headed to protest and she was getting no money this month. I have responsibilities that need to be met and therefore going off protesting the system simply is not an option. I'd need to get out there, and do what it takes to make the ends meet. From a personal perspective - occupy wall street is not an option to me. Perhaps the last line of your post can also be used in this instance. It's easy if you are young and have no ties - but if you have a family its not that easy to do.
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2011, 09:04:02 AM
47% of Americans wouldn't be able to raise $2000 in 30 days according to Harpers.
Are they all lazy?
I can't raise 2000$ in 30 days. I can make it, but there are bills to pay. Are 47% of the population of any country supposed to be in a position to raise that kind of money in their respective markets in 30 days?
There are wisdom teeth (yes, really) that need taken out - I've to save and budget for them
There are new tires need bought for the winter - I've to save and budget for them
There's a credit card - if 2000$ was needed immediately - but who wants to get into that debt.
Im 31 - are 31 year olds supposed to be able to just whip up 2000$ in 30 days? Is that
realistic?
I work 40-50 hours a week, am I lazy?
Muppet just to weight in on some things here.
Just because I am a committed Catholic and standup for my faith and try to evangelize does not brandish me a raving right winger. I barely follow politics here, as you troll through all of my posts I am sure you can confirm that I rarely, if ever, post on strictly political topics. From my limited understanding of politics in America and if I could vote I actually believe the Democrats have better policies but I don't agree with their moral stance on a lot of issues and as a result struggle with them as a party.
I don't like a lot of Republican policies but agree with some of the moral stances they take but struggle with them as a party.
I recognize that whoever is President or whoever controls the senate doesn't really matter as this country will always be run by big business (much like the rest of the world).
I don't have a clue what else hides behind the phrase "the world owes me/them a living" as you have indicated.
I appreciate the likes of Puck stepping in here with his opinions and in defense of mine.
Muppet, you read too much into things and look for too many opportunities to stir up crap and twist words and wind people up. There used to be good craic on this board. There used to be healthy conversation and debate, intelligent discussion. There would be a few bollixes who would show up and lighten the tone and give us all a laugh but now I think there are just too many of yous bollixes and combined, your once humorous injections, are increasingly annoying.
Quote from: Puckoon on November 09, 2011, 01:56:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2011, 09:04:02 AM
47% of Americans wouldn't be able to raise $2000 in 30 days according to Harpers.
Are they all lazy?
I can't raise 2000$ in 30 days. I can make it, but there are bills to pay. Are 47% of the population of any country supposed to be in a position to raise that kind of money in their respective markets in 30 days?
There are wisdom teeth (yes, really) that need taken out - I've to save and budget for them
There are new tires need bought for the winter - I've to save and budget for them
There's a credit card - if 2000$ was needed immediately - but who wants to get into that debt.
Im 31 - are 31 year olds supposed to be able to just whip up 2000$ in 30 days? Is that realistic?
I work 40-50 hours a week, am I lazy?
Puckoon
There was something in the FT recently about the proportion of Americans who have no savings whatsoever. It's very high.
I wouldn't worry about the 2k if you are 31 but 47% is across all ages . So the implication is that people don't have the savings. I think that is one reason why OWS has caught on.
Quote from: muppet on November 08, 2011, 11:18:26 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on November 08, 2011, 10:59:50 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on November 07, 2011, 05:02:52 PM
Muppet I think its a bit far fetched to draw comparisons there in fairness.
Yes big business is a problem and yes the distribution of wealth is a problem. What I don't agree with is the attitude of 'the world owes me a living.'
Look around the bars in Ireland at the weekend and its the same people, in the same trendy new clothes, with the iPhones and the new cars, the holidays to Spain once a year, yet they don't have any money. Living beyond their means is the problem.
Couple that with the laziness that has crept into the country and you have a problem. People don't want to work and expect to get paid a lot of money for not working.
I work about 60-70 hours a week, God forbid if I was out of work in the morning and couldn't get work doing something similar to what I am doing I would be on a building site or behind a bar pulling pints or manual labour on a farm. You reap what you sow.
When you took issue with this post, the whole thread went left. This post got extrapolated into a discussion about begrudgery, defence of wall street, boasting etc. In my opinion I think this post is completely truthful - and I do not (nor do I think this post does), defend anything that has happened in Wall street. I think there are many truths in this post:
1. Big Business is a problem
2. The distribution of wealth is a problem
3. There is a western world wide issue (ive even been guilty of it myself) of not living within the means available to you
4. There is an attitude of entitelment and that the world owes (I have seen it in my own workplace, and community)
5. There are people, many people who are not prepared to help themselves (there are in addition - there are as many people who unfortunately are not being afforded the opportunity to help themselves - see points 1 and 2)
6. What is boastful, or lecturing about suggesting that if IM, (or indeed myself as we had MORE layoffs last week, with more in the pipeline), were to be out of work in the morning - there wouldn't be efforts going into a mass protest - rather I'd be out hauling bricks, or lpulling pints to make ends meet?
Ok let's do this.
To me, and evidentially others in Ireland, that post says the following about Ireland:
1. He fires the old chestnut about 'the world owes me a living'. You live in the States, you know exactly what is behind that and you of all people usually run a mile from that crap.
2. He says look around the bars of Ireland at all these people living beyond their means. 4 years too late of course.
3. Then we have the predictable 'People don't want to work and expect to get paid a lot of money for not working' after the usual laziness accusation.
Get the picture, I'm broke, you owe me a living, I'm lazy, I deserve more money for doing nothing?
4. The only people on here who talk about how hard they work and how much they earn are those lambasting the rest of us, without even the slightest clue as to our circumstances.
Stew let the cat out of the bag by assuming I haven't a pot to piss in. That said it all and you quickly tried to deflect the point away from that.
You have reacted to back up an acquaintance or mate or whatever. Very noble but from what I have read over the years you don't buy into that Republican - survival of the fittest as long as you don't mean Darwin- rhetoric.
I didn't assume you haven't a pot to piss in, I said that to get a rise out of you, I was being lazy in the way you all assume I watch Fox news, I really don't watch Fox news much at all but despite telling you lot that you hammer away as if i do. That to me is either stupidity or laziness, take your pick.
A man told you he worked hard and was doing all right and you blew it totally out of proportion, you are way off base on this thread, you really, really are.
http://www.thenation.com/article/155801/city-ruins
Father Michael Doyle, an Irish priest, has been in the Sacred Heart parish for thirty-five years. He has witnessed the violence of poverty devastating his congregation. Father Doyle was a member of the Camden 28, a group of left-wing Catholics and anti–Vietnam War activists who in 1971 raided the city's draft board to destroy files. He was sent to Camden as punishment by church leaders who disapproved of his activism.
"Today's a very hard time to be poor," says Father Doyle, seated in the church rectory. "Because you know you're poor. You hear people my age get up and say, 'We were poor. We put cardboard in our shoes.' We talk like that. But we didn't know we were poor. Today you do. And how do you know you're poor? Your television shows you that you're poor. So it's very easy to build up anger in a, say, a high-voltage kid of 17. He knows he's poor, he looks at the TV and all these people have everything and I have nothing. And so he's very angry.... I'm talking about the violence that rises out of the marketing that shows the kid what he could have, creates a huge anger that explodes easily. That I discovered very quickly when I came to Camden. I discovered the anger was so near the surface, you just rub it and it explodes. And there's no respect for you if you have no money."
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/empandunempilo.htm (http://www.cso.ie/statistics/empandunempilo.htm)
Between 2006 and now 10% of the workforce here has lost employment. Hidden in those stats are probably another 10% who have emigrated. Add that to those who were unemployed before 2006 and you get some idea of what has happened the Irish workforce even if the official figure is still less than 15%.
At any time the notion that the unemployed are lazy is grossly offensive, but in the current global crisis it simply smacks of hubris. That may not have been the intended sentiment on this thread but I doubt if there is a single Irish based poster here who hasn't had mates or family (if not themselves) lose a job recently.
Back to Wall Street. Some light reading that no doubt was written by Leftie Pinko Euro weenies:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405)
Matt Taibbi is definitely not a lefty European weenie. But to TO and Stew anything he says will reek of that damn liberal bias that's the main problem with the American media. TO and Stew will probably say that as a writer for Rolling Stone, he's just one of those Americans who hate America, long hair hippies still stuck in the 60's who support Obama.
And Stew, if you want to call me names, go right ahead. Sticks and stones and all that, by using a perjorative term for me, you only make yourself look bad. But then again you live in Green Bay, so what else should I expect. And for your information Al Gore won the popular vote in the 2000 election not Bush. Look it up, its the truth. And as for 2004, there was something going on in Ohio with votes being switched from Kerry to Bush. I suspect Karl Rove was behind it all, but we'll never know will we. Check that out as well, if you can stomach it.
TO, it's none of your business but my husband and I are not running back to Co. Down to suck off the British government. We own a house, pay rates and since neither of us is gettiing any younger, at least you don't have to bankrupt yourself to get care/help for youself when you can no longer do it for yourself. My husband has worked for the same company here in Chicago since he arrived here in 1979, so he'll have an adequate union pension to keep us going.
I really do feel sorry for the two of you. Talk about begrudgers, you two take the cake.
Stew and TO remind me of these bucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14njUwJUg1I
Opinion piece in today's Times
Occupy movement's peaceful assault is proper but worse injustices also demand action
OPINION: The middle classes form the backbone of this global lobby group due to bleak prospects, writes VITTORIO BUFACCHI
SOCIAL INJUSTICE is on the agenda. The bailout of financial institutions was by all accounts a necessary evil, but this policy came at a real cost, and ordinary people are paying it. That bankers responsible for financial meltdown are still being paid bonuses only adds insult to injury, and is perhaps an act of hypocrisy too far.
Income disparity and corporate greed are some of the targets of the Occupy movement. A month after hundreds of thousands of protesters took to the streets rallying against banks, financial institutions and government cutbacks, the Occupy movement is not showing signs of withering: protests are still ongoing in Wall Street, London, Dublin, Cork, and many other cities across the United States, Europe, Oceania and the Far East.
At the root of the Occupy movement is a sense of indignation over the level of inequality and unfairness in our society in 2011. The motto of the Occupy movement in Spain reads: "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." If the Occupy movement has a shared goal, globally, it is to highlight the social injustice that seems to be at the heart of the basic structure of our society: financially, politically and socially.
The inequality in income and wealth across industrialised nations is as grotesque as it is well-documented. The 400 wealthiest Americans (the Forbes listers) have as much wealth as the bottom 50 per cent of all Americans, or 57 million households. There is something perverse about the world's millionaires and billionaires, who make up less than 1 per cent of the world population, controlling 38.5 per cent of the wealth.
To its credit, the Occupy movement understands there is more to social injustice than the uneven distribution of income. The issue is not merely economic; income inequality corrupts the democratic fabric of our society. The rest of the 99 per cent of the population are not only excluded from such rich pickings, they are powerless in rebalancing the laws and norms that are skewed in favour of the super-rich. The 99 per cent are effectively excluded from participating in the running of society.
The Occupy movement's peaceful assault on the bastions of social injustice is legitimate. Their motivations and concerns are commendable. It is not surprising that no politician dares to speak against them, not even billionaire Mayor of New York Michael Bloomberg. But why are so many people getting involved with this protest movement? And why now? After all, inequality and injustice has always been a feature of our society. Figures from 2003 show the average chief executive in America was paid 531 times the pay of the average blue-collar worker, so why take to the streets now?
One explanation for the popularity of the Occupy movement is that it enjoys the support of a sizeable middle-class contingent. Numbers make a difference, and the middle classes are making up the numbers.
One protester at Occupy Wall Street explained his parents had endured a debt of $100,000 to pay for his college education, but all their sacrifices were to no avail as he was unable to find a job. One is left wondering whether this protester (and many others like him) will still be supporting the cause when, eventually, the economy picks up, levels of unemployment recede, and he can wear a suit to his new job.
When the middle classes once again see a future where they can prosper, the urgency of the Occupy movement will slowly deflate. Many of its activists will trade the streets for offices with their names on a desk, and the world will go back to the status quo of the last few decades, with its inequality, unfairness, exclusion and disempowerment.
The euro zone deal agreed in Brussels may be the first step towards averting the spectre of recession, and millions across Europe anxiously hope we are finally on the way towards resuming business as usual. When that moment comes, and the rich nations steady themselves for another cycle of boom and bust, we will still have 850 million human beings chronically undernourished; 800 million illiterate adults; 220 million child labourers, and 40 per cent of humankind living in severe poverty. That is the worse injustice.
Dr Vittorio Bufacchi lectures in philosophy in University College Cork.
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 09, 2011, 09:50:00 PM
Matt Taibbi is definitely not a lefty European weenie. But to TO and Stew anything he says will reek of that damn liberal bias that's the main problem with the American media. TO and Stew will probably say that as a writer for Rolling Stone, he's just one of those Americans who hate America, long hair hippies still stuck in the 60's who support Obama.
And Stew, if you want to call me names, go right ahead. Sticks and stones and all that, by using a perjorative term for me, you only make yourself look bad. But then again you live in Green Bay, so what else should I expect. And for your information Al Gore won the popular vote in the 2000 election not Bush. Look it up, its the truth. And as for 2004, there was something going on in Ohio with votes being switched from Kerry to Bush. I suspect Karl Rove was behind it all, but we'll never know will we. Check that out as well, if you can stomach it.
TO, it's none of your business but my husband and I are not running back to Co. Down to suck off the British government. We own a house, pay rates and since neither of us is gettiing any younger, at least you don't have to bankrupt yourself to get care/help for youself when you can no longer do it for yourself. My husband has worked for the same company here in Chicago since he arrived here in 1979, so he'll have an adequate union pension to keep us going.
I really do feel sorry for the two of you. Talk about begrudgers, you two take the cake.
Good riddance and don't be doing a runner on your taxes either...seen your type before, elitist shit don't stink attitude, all about raising taxes then fcuk off to Ireland and pay nobody.
Taxes are wonderful as long as it's someone elses money, right Mrs Wonderful :-*
Listen sweetie, don't talk to me about paying taxes. I've been paying taxes in this country since 1969 and my husband has been paying them since 1980 which I'm sure is far longer than you have. Don't worry your head over us paying our taxes, our accountant will be sure to see that they are paid on time and correctly.
This isn't a pissing contest about taxes anyway, but since you have a problem with the fact that my husband and I both have become disgusted about this country, mainly because of people like yourself and Green Bay Stew from Armagh, with your attitude that so many of your ilk have, "I've got mine, f**k everyone else" we have decided to live the rest of our lives in my husband's hometown in Co. Down in our own house which is completely paid for. I could give a fiddler's f**k if either of you approve or not.
As I said I feel sorry for you and I hope that nothing catastrophic befalls you or anyone that belongs to you. You have heard of the expression, "there but for the grace of God, go I", well take those words and think about them because bad luck, losing your job, or illness can happpen to all of us including you and Stew. As Mr. Wonderful says "there's a long road with no turn on".
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 10, 2011, 08:22:38 PM
Listen sweetie, don't talk to me about paying taxes. I've been paying taxes in this country since 1969 and my husband has been paying them since 1980 which I'm sure is far longer than you have. Don't worry your head over us paying our taxes, our accountant will be sure to see that they are paid on time and correctly.
This isn't a pissing contest about taxes anyway, but since you have a problem with the fact that my husband and I both have become disgusted about this country, mainly because of people like yourself and Green Bay Stew from Armagh, with your attitude that so many of your ilk have, "I've got mine, f**k everyone else" we have decided to live the rest of our lives in my husband's hometown in Co. Down in our own house which is completely paid for. I could give a fiddler's f**k if either of you approve or not.
As I said I feel sorry for you and I hope that nothing catastrophic befalls you or anyone that belongs to you. You have heard of the expression, "there but for the grace of God, go I", well take those words and think about them because bad luck, losing your job, or illness can happpen to all of us including you and Stew. As Mr. Wonderful says "there's a long road with no turn on".
Best of luck with the move . I hope it goes well and that Down bring back Sam soonish.
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 10, 2011, 08:22:38 PM
Listen sweetie, don't talk to me about paying taxes. I've been paying taxes in this country since 1969 and my husband has been paying them since 1980 which I'm sure is far longer than you have. Don't worry your head over us paying our taxes, our accountant will be sure to see that they are paid on time and correctly.
This isn't a pissing contest about taxes anyway, but since you have a problem with the fact that my husband and I both have become disgusted about this country, mainly because of people like yourself and Green Bay Stew from Armagh, with your attitude that so many of your ilk have, "I've got mine, f**k everyone else" we have decided to live the rest of our lives in my husband's hometown in Co. Down in our own house which is completely paid for. I could give a fiddler's f**k if either of you approve or not.
As I said I feel sorry for you and I hope that nothing catastrophic befalls you or anyone that belongs to you. You have heard of the expression, "there but for the grace of God, go I", well take those words and think about them because bad luck, losing your job, or illness can happpen to all of us including you and Stew. As Mr. Wonderful says "there's a long road with no turn on".
You don't know me, I do care about people and I do sponsor people who deserve to be sponsored, that is a documented fact that i can prove. Because you are a liberal does not mean you care, libertarians also care about people as do republicans, I am not now nor will I ever be from Green Bay, I am from Armagh and despite it's flaws it is who I am and were I am from.
I lost my job, I lost the ability to drive based on the fact I took a seizure, it cost me my job, my income...............and for a while my dignity.
I care deeply about people, currently I am praying for a 15 year old child who has a brain tumor and who has just been informed there are grave complications. I will not allow you or your sad ilk to make out that we don't give a shite about anybody but ourselves.
You have issues, you seem to hate Green Bay because of me! how sad do you have to be to do that?
We can be different and have a value system that is decent, you, your hubby, nor his nasty union don't own the moral center, the fact is that you had eight years of Bush and did not move back back to Ireland, why was that? surely he was the ultimate anti liberal politician.
Finally, were you not the one's protesting the norn iron team that came to Chicago to play Romania a few years ago? :D :D :D :D
Stew, yeah I do hate Green Bay. I hate the Green Bay Packers and all their cheesehead fans. I've been a Chicago Bears fan my entire life and my opinion of the Slackers ain't gonna change. It's rather funny that you think I hate Green Bay just because of you, do you really think you're that important? Guess what you're not...
I noticed that you claim to be an Armagh man first, last and always. Well I thought that most Armagh people have some decency, but it's quite clear that you don't. You've never met me in your life, yet you've used two perjoratives referring to me in your last two posts. Oh, well what do expect from a pig but a grunt.
Don't worry I won't be bothering you again. You're beyond redemption.
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 10, 2011, 08:22:38 PM
Listen sweetie, don't talk to me about paying taxes. I've been paying taxes in this country since 1969 and my husband has been paying them since 1980 which I'm sure is far longer than you have. Don't worry your head over us paying our taxes, our accountant will be sure to see that they are paid on time and correctly.
This isn't a pissing contest about taxes anyway, but since you have a problem with the fact that my husband and I both have become disgusted about this country, mainly because of people like yourself and Green Bay Stew from Armagh, with your attitude that so many of your ilk have, "I've got mine, f**k everyone else" we have decided to live the rest of our lives in my husband's hometown in Co. Down in our own house which is completely paid for. I could give a fiddler's f**k if either of you approve or not.
As I said I feel sorry for you and I hope that nothing catastrophic befalls you or anyone that belongs to you. You have heard of the expression, "there but for the grace of God, go I", well take those words and think about them because bad luck, losing your job, or illness can happpen to all of us including you and Stew. As Mr. Wonderful says "there's a long road with no turn on".
:D Now if that's not an oxymoron... you've got yours and you're bailing FFS :D
Oh and protesting the soccer team :D You do know they laugh at dumb plastic yanks like you back there
with your trying to be more Irish than they are...mostly behind your back though so not to worry!
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2011, 11:07:00 PM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 10, 2011, 08:22:38 PM
Listen sweetie, don't talk to me about paying taxes. I've been paying taxes in this country since 1969 and my husband has been paying them since 1980 which I'm sure is far longer than you have. Don't worry your head over us paying our taxes, our accountant will be sure to see that they are paid on time and correctly.
This isn't a pissing contest about taxes anyway, but since you have a problem with the fact that my husband and I both have become disgusted about this country, mainly because of people like yourself and Green Bay Stew from Armagh, with your attitude that so many of your ilk have, "I've got mine, f**k everyone else" we have decided to live the rest of our lives in my husband's hometown in Co. Down in our own house which is completely paid for. I could give a fiddler's f**k if either of you approve or not.
As I said I feel sorry for you and I hope that nothing catastrophic befalls you or anyone that belongs to you. You have heard of the expression, "there but for the grace of God, go I", well take those words and think about them because bad luck, losing your job, or illness can happpen to all of us including you and Stew. As Mr. Wonderful says "there's a long road with no turn on".
You don't know me , I do care about people and I do sponsor people who deserve to be sponsored, that is a documented fact that i can prove. Because you are a liberal does not mean you care, libertarians also care about people as do republicans, I am not now nor will I ever be from Green Bay, I am from Armagh and despite it's flaws it is who I am and were I am from. I lost my job, I lost the ability to drive based on the fact I took a seizure, it cost me my job, my income...............and for a while my dignity.
I care deeply about people, currently I am praying for a 15 year old child who has a brain tumor and who has just been informed there are grave complications. I will not allow you or your sad ilk to make out that we don't give a shite about anybody but ourselves.
You have issues, you seem to hate Green Bay because of me! how sad do you have to be to do that?
We can be different and have a value system that is decent, you, your hubby, nor his nasty union don't own the moral center, the fact is that you had eight years of Bush and did not move back back to Ireland, why was that? surely he was the ultimate anti liberal politician.
Finally, were you not the one's protesting the norn iron team that came to Chicago to play Romania a few years ago? :D :D :D :D
Stew
That post is way out of order. You sound like you need some kind of anger
management therapy.
Stew, way out of order. Dial it back a notch or 10.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 11, 2011, 02:15:02 AM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 10, 2011, 08:22:38 PM
Listen sweetie, don't talk to me about paying taxes. I've been paying taxes in this country since 1969 and my husband has been paying them since 1980 which I'm sure is far longer than you have. Don't worry your head over us paying our taxes, our accountant will be sure to see that they are paid on time and correctly.
This isn't a pissing contest about taxes anyway, but since you have a problem with the fact that my husband and I both have become disgusted about this country, mainly because of people like yourself and Green Bay Stew from Armagh, with your attitude that so many of your ilk have, "I've got mine, f**k everyone else" we have decided to live the rest of our lives in my husband's hometown in Co. Down in our own house which is completely paid for. I could give a fiddler's f**k if either of you approve or not.
As I said I feel sorry for you and I hope that nothing catastrophic befalls you or anyone that belongs to you. You have heard of the expression, "there but for the grace of God, go I", well take those words and think about them because bad luck, losing your job, or illness can happpen to all of us including you and Stew. As Mr. Wonderful says "there's a long road with no turn on".
:D Now if that's not an oxymoron... you've got yours and you're bailing FFS :D
Oh and protesting the soccer team :D You do know they laugh at dumb plastic yanks like you back there
with your trying to be more Irish than they are...mostly behind your back though so not to worry!
TO, don't think I was the only one protesting when the NI soccer team was invited to train at Gaelic Park in Chicago back in 2006. In fact, one of the organizers of the protest was a fella from your own county. I wouldn't call him a "plastic yank" or a plastic paddy, that's for sure.
As well, don't think I'm trying to be more Irish than the natives either. I know how small people in small towns in Ireland think and as long as they keep themselves to themselves, they'll have no problem with me. I have never taken shite from anyone in my life and believe me, I'm not going to start now and that includes yourself.
Have a nice life, like Stew, you are beyond redemption.
Mrs. redandblack4ever
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 11, 2011, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 11, 2011, 02:15:02 AM
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 10, 2011, 08:22:38 PM
Listen sweetie, don't talk to me about paying taxes. I've been paying taxes in this country since 1969 and my husband has been paying them since 1980 which I'm sure is far longer than you have. Don't worry your head over us paying our taxes, our accountant will be sure to see that they are paid on time and correctly.
This isn't a pissing contest about taxes anyway, but since you have a problem with the fact that my husband and I both have become disgusted about this country, mainly because of people like yourself and Green Bay Stew from Armagh, with your attitude that so many of your ilk have, "I've got mine, f**k everyone else" we have decided to live the rest of our lives in my husband's hometown in Co. Down in our own house which is completely paid for. I could give a fiddler's f**k if either of you approve or not.
As I said I feel sorry for you and I hope that nothing catastrophic befalls you or anyone that belongs to you. You have heard of the expression, "there but for the grace of God, go I", well take those words and think about them because bad luck, losing your job, or illness can happpen to all of us including you and Stew. As Mr. Wonderful says "there's a long road with no turn on".
:D Now if that's not an oxymoron... you've got yours and you're bailing FFS :D
Oh and protesting the soccer team :D You do know they laugh at dumb plastic yanks like you back there
with your trying to be more Irish than they are...mostly behind your back though so not to worry!
TO, don't think I was the only one protesting when the NI soccer team was invited to train at Gaelic Park in Chicago back in 2006. In fact, one of the organizers of the protest was a fella from your own county. I wouldn't call him a "plastic yank" or a plastic paddy, that's for sure.
As well, don't think I'm trying to be more Irish than the natives either. I know how small people in small towns in Ireland think and as long as they keep themselves to themselves, they'll have no problem with me. I have never taken shite from anyone in my life and believe me, I'm not going to start now and that includes yourself.
Have a nice life, like Stew, you are beyond redemption.
Mrs. redandblack4ever
The twelve of you that protested looked like a bunch of plonkers, I had great craic figuring out which pair were you two fools, by the way, the game was great craic and the occasion was not spoiled by a bunch of picketing bigots who have obviously nothing better to do with their lives.
Stew
you're not Jackie Fullerton, by any chance?
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2011, 10:00:40 PM
Stew
you're not Jackie Fullerton, by any chance?
Tony Fearon playing mind tricks, protesting against an imperilaist state occupying bull shiting state protest; christ Fearon has stepped up 1 notch on the cow manure level
Stew, just FYI we didn't protest at the game itself, which I belive was played either at Soldier Field or in Bridgeview at the Fire's home ground. To be completely honest, it was so long ago I can't remember. The protest which we were involved in was at Chicago Gaelic Park because TPTB at Gaelic Park invited them to train on the pitch and some of us took exception to that fact. The protest was a silent one and the the turnout was substantially more than 12 people and it included people from your own county. But then again, all of the participants are only "bigots" in your view.
So if you saw some people protesting at the game itself, they didn't include myself. my husband or any of the other participants at Gaelic Park, so your hilarity was for naught
Stew, do yourself a favor and please don't reply. As I said before you're beyond redemption and I really don't care what your opinion of me is.
Have a nice life.
Mrs. redandblack4ever
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 12, 2011, 08:00:37 PM
Stew, just FYI we didn't protest at the game itself, which I belive was played either at Soldier Field or in Bridgeview at the Fire's home ground. To be completely honest, it was so long ago I can't remember. The protest which we were involved in was at Chicago Gaelic Park because TPTB at Gaelic Park invited them to train on the pitch and some of us took exception to that fact. The protest was a silent one and the the turnout was substantially more than 12 people and it included people from your own county. But then again, all of the participants are only "bigots" in your view.
So if you saw some people protesting at the game itself, they didn't include myself. my husband or any of the other participants at Gaelic Park, so your hilarity was for naught
Stew, do yourself a favor and please don't reply. As I said before you're beyond redemption and I really don't care what your opinion of me is.
Have a nice life.
Mrs. redandblack4ever
Seriously Mrs. Wonderful...are you six or Sixty? ::) grow up! but on to a more serious note, I take it it's
just my wealth and others like me you've been in favor of redistributing all these years, Cause it certainly won't be
yours what with you bailing with what you've accumulated, unpaid taxes an all...kind of like the fcuk you Jack I'm alright type situation you mentioned, or am I wrong :o
Quote from: redandblack4ever on November 12, 2011, 08:00:37 PM
Stew, just FYI we didn't protest at the game itself, which I belive was played either at Soldier Field or in Bridgeview at the Fire's home ground. To be completely honest, it was so long ago I can't remember. The protest which we were involved in was at Chicago Gaelic Park because TPTB at Gaelic Park invited them to train on the pitch and some of us took exception to that fact. The protest was a silent one and the the turnout was substantially more than 12 people and it included people from your own county. But then again, all of the participants are only "bigots" in your view.
So if you saw some people protesting at the game itself, they didn't include myself. my husband or any of the other participants at Gaelic Park, so your hilarity was for naught
Stew, do yourself a favor and please don't reply. As I said before you're beyond redemption and I really don't care what your opinion of me is.
Have a nice life.
Mrs. redandblack4ever
2006? You said it in your previous post; I suppose 5 years is a long time.
Reports on Radio news that the protesters are being cleared out this morning. Riot police etc....
Quote from: Denn Forever on November 15, 2011, 10:10:26 AM
Reports on Radio news that the protesters are being cleared out this morning. Riot police etc....
I think they would have wound down for the winter probably.
A bit on the heavy side from NYC.
they obviously struck a deep nerve
and will be back in the spring . This idea is only going to become more relevant.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 02:48:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent
Nail on head!!
Btw,
Having heard the nonsensical row about Symbols by Peter Robinson and the Threat of an Assembly Election over it mades me seriously want to consider standing (As an Independent, Bipartisan and Ecumenical Candidate) in a possible Election. I'm sick and tired of this shower we have as a Political Class (Sinn Fein would NEVER tolerate this mess at Dail Eireann). The 4 main parties are a joke and are nothing but me feiners.
If the SDLP and UUP have any shred of decency, they would disband and make way for an NI 'Tea Party' style movement. Think of the People rather than the Pay Packet.
QuoteNI 'Tea Party' style
Aren't the Tea Party me feiners? Government leave me alone, you can't do anything right so I'll look after myself?
Sinn Féin does not mean 'Ourselves Alone', ergo, me féin does not mean 'myself alone'!
Quote from: Groucho on November 15, 2011, 12:24:27 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 02:48:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent
Nail on head!!
This is the most stupid analysis I have ever heard. It is absolutely absurd.
On one side you have protestors camping in a park, on the other you have Wall Street Executives who earn up to $30,000,000 a year.
His analysis of the situation is that the protestors have an inflated sense of entitlement and should be happy with their lot and piss off. Not once does he mention the debt generated by Wall Street. He makes no mention of bailouts.
He does think we should thank our lucky stars for great corporations such as Shell, Exxon and BP. He actually says we 'should thank them'. And the amazing thing is it doesn't appear to be satire.
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: Groucho on November 15, 2011, 12:24:27 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 02:48:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent
Nail on head!!
This is the most stupid analysis I have ever heard. It is absolutely absurd.
On one side you have protestors camping in a park, on the other you have Wall Street Executives who earn up to $30,000,000 a year.
His analysis of the situation is that the protestors have an inflated sense of entitlement and should be happy with their lot and piss off. Not once does he mention the debt generated by Wall Street. He makes no mention of bailouts.
He does think we should thank our lucky stars for great corporations such as Shell, Exxon and BP. He actually says we 'should thank them'. And the amazing thing is it doesn't appear to be satire.
Why aren't you out camping with them muppet since
you seem to have so much in common with them and their ideals ???
The entitlement culture is completely out of control here whether
you care to acknowledge it or not but nice straw man non the less!
Why must that black crow absolutely always have to be white with you?
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 03:36:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: Groucho on November 15, 2011, 12:24:27 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 02:48:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent
Nail on head!!
This is the most stupid analysis I have ever heard. It is absolutely absurd.
On one side you have protestors camping in a park, on the other you have Wall Street Executives who earn up to $30,000,000 a year.
His analysis of the situation is that the protestors have an inflated sense of entitlement and should be happy with their lot and piss off. Not once does he mention the debt generated by Wall Street. He makes no mention of bailouts.
He does think we should thank our lucky stars for great corporations such as Shell, Exxon and BP. He actually says we 'should thank them'. And the amazing thing is it doesn't appear to be satire.
Why aren't you out camping with them muppet since
you seem to have so much in common with them and their ideals ???
The entitlement culture is completely out of control here whether
you care to acknowledge it or not but nice straw man non the less!
Why must that black crow absolutely always have to be white with you?
Yes it is. But the same applies X 100 to Wall Street executives. That is what is so absurd about his straw man argument. He says the protestors are wrong because they own iPads and iPhones. Then he wants them to thank the people who make stuff. Stuff like iPhones and iPads.
He is no idiot however and he knows exactly who will swallow his nonsense. I knew you would be along quickly. ;D
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 03:40:47 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 03:36:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: Groucho on November 15, 2011, 12:24:27 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 02:48:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent
Nail on head!!
This is the most stupid analysis I have ever heard. It is absolutely absurd.
On one side you have protestors camping in a park, on the other you have Wall Street Executives who earn up to $30,000,000 a year.
His analysis of the situation is that the protestors have an inflated sense of entitlement and should be happy with their lot and piss off. Not once does he mention the debt generated by Wall Street. He makes no mention of bailouts.
He does think we should thank our lucky stars for great corporations such as Shell, Exxon and BP. He actually says we 'should thank them'. And the amazing thing is it doesn't appear to be satire.
Why aren't you out camping with them muppet since
you seem to have so much in common with them and their ideals ???
The entitlement culture is completely out of control here whether
you care to acknowledge it or not but nice straw man non the less!
Why must that black crow absolutely always have to be white with you?
Yes it is. But the same applies X 100 to Wall Street executives. That is what is so absurd about his straw man argument. He says the protestors are wrong because they own iPads and iPhones. Then he wants them to thank the people who make stuff. Stuff like iPhones and iPads.
He is no idiot however and he knows exactly who will swallow his nonsense. I knew you would be along quickly. ;D
Social welfare in the US is out of control ? No, it isn't.
TO and the rest of his fellow travellers want to drag the US back to the 1920s or even back to the victorian age
where only the absolutely destitute have any right to any support from the government. Entitlement is one of the BS words they use. It sounds far more reasonable to say entitlements are out of control than "social protection needs solid funding".
The US is a mess . I met a doctor from Alabama a while ago . In Alabama medical spending by the state is funded by property taxes. The funding system has broken down in the recession and the republicans blame the poor.
So outside of the iphone/ipad part, you agree with the other 95% of the point he's making then?
And eh....as for me being along quickly, you are aware that it was me that posted the original youtube link aren't you? It was you replying to me!
And so yep...there was an idiot along quickly alright ;D
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 04:03:17 PM
So outside of the iphone/ipad part, you agree with the other 95% of the point he's making then?
And eh....as for me being along quickly, you are aware that it was me that posted the original youtube link aren't you? It was you replying to me!
And so yep...there was an idiot along quickly alright ;D
Standard TO response. Says nothing and claim victory.
I don't agree with his point at all. The video has nothing to do with the substantive issue. It is like watching a fashion correspondent talking about a war. He never mentions debt or bailouts. Why do you think that is TO?
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 03:40:47 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 03:36:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: Groucho on November 15, 2011, 12:24:27 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 02:48:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent
Nail on head!!
This is the most stupid analysis I have ever heard. It is absolutely absurd.
On one side you have protestors camping in a park, on the other you have Wall Street Executives who earn up to $30,000,000 a year.
His analysis of the situation is that the protestors have an inflated sense of entitlement and should be happy with their lot and piss off. Not once does he mention the debt generated by Wall Street. He makes no mention of bailouts.
He does think we should thank our lucky stars for great corporations such as Shell, Exxon and BP. He actually says we 'should thank them'. And the amazing thing is it doesn't appear to be satire.
Why aren't you out camping with them muppet since
you seem to have so much in common with them and their ideals ???
The entitlement culture is completely out of control here whether
you care to acknowledge it or not but nice straw man non the less!
Why must that black crow absolutely always have to be white with you?
Yes it is. But the same applies X 100 to Wall Street executives. That is what is so absurd about his straw man argument. He says the protestors are wrong because they own iPads and iPhones. Then he wants them to thank the people who make stuff. Stuff like iPhones and iPads.
He is no idiot however and he knows exactly who will swallow his nonsense. I knew you would be along quickly. ;D
Social welfare in the US is out of control ? No, it isn't.
TO and the rest of his fellow travellers want to drag the US back to the 1920s or even back to the victorian age
where only the absolutely destitute have any right to any support from the government. Entitlement is one of the BS words they use. It sounds far more reasonable to say entitlements are out of control than "social protection needs solid funding".
The US is a mess . I met a doctor from Alabama a while ago . In Alabama medical spending by the state is funded by property taxes. The funding system has broken down in the recession and the republicans blame the poor.
I met a man that knows a man ::) ...tell me, do you two share the same white crow or have you one each?
Were still talking about the wall street protesters here? Right seafoid
or have you moved along to the world history view in your opinion of the spectacular
successes of socialism the world over?
Here To, have a look at Sinn Féin's 'alternate' budget proposals and tell us what you think:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html)
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:10:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 04:03:17 PM
So outside of the iphone/ipad part, you agree with the other 95% of the point he's making then?
And eh....as for me being along quickly, you are aware that it was me that posted the original youtube link aren't you? It was you replying to me!
And so yep...there was an idiot along quickly alright ;D
Standard TO response. Says nothing and claim victory.
I don't agree with his point at all. The video has nothing to do with the substantive issue. It is like watching a fashion correspondent talking about a war. He never mentions debt or bailouts. Why do you think that is TO?
Of course you don't agree...again, why aren't you out with them
protesting what with those strong convictions of their plight :-X
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:15:46 PM
Here To, have a look at Sinn Féin's 'alternate' budget proposals and tell us what you think:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html)
Generally don't get involved in threads or topics that I know little to
nothing about....perhaps a little lesson you two would do well to pay
attention to ;)
TO
The US applied republican style austerity in the 30s. It led to WW2.
Under Republican nihilism, the young, the working poor and the elderly pay for the careless profligacy and corruption of the propertied rich and financiers
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 04:18:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:10:34 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 04:03:17 PM
So outside of the iphone/ipad part, you agree with the other 95% of the point he's making then?
And eh....as for me being along quickly, you are aware that it was me that posted the original youtube link aren't you? It was you replying to me!
And so yep...there was an idiot along quickly alright ;D
Standard TO response. Says nothing and claim victory.
I don't agree with his point at all. The video has nothing to do with the substantive issue. It is like watching a fashion correspondent talking about a war. He never mentions debt or bailouts. Why do you think that is TO?
Of course you don't agree...again, why aren't you out with them
protesting what with those strong convictions of their plight :-X
Not agreeing with you does not automatically imply that I hold the completely opposite view. You never seem to get that. It is the old 'you are either with us or against us manta'.
I have no intention of sleeping on the street in a tent. It is a noble but ultimately pointless act.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 04:22:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:15:46 PM
Here To, have a look at Sinn Féin's 'alternate' budget proposals and tell us what you think:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html)
Generally don't get involved in threads or topics that I know little to
nothing about....perhaps a little lesson you two would do well to pay
attention to ;)
So you admit to knowing nothing about politics, taxes, budgets and economics. Fair play.
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:30:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 04:22:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:15:46 PM
Here To, have a look at Sinn Féin's 'alternate' budget proposals and tell us what you think:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html)
Generally don't get involved in threads or topics that I know little to
nothing about....perhaps a little lesson you two would do well to pay
attention to ;)
So you admit to knowing nothing about politics, taxes, budgets and economics. Fair play.
Paying attention to budget proposals in Ireland...yes muppet!
Phew....nearly got me there ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:30:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 04:22:54 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:15:46 PM
Here To, have a look at Sinn Féin's 'alternate' budget proposals and tell us what you think:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html)
Generally don't get involved in threads or topics that I know little to
nothing about....perhaps a little lesson you two would do well to pay
attention to ;)
So you admit to knowing nothing about politics, taxes, budgets and economics. Fair play.
Paying attention to budget proposals in Ireland...yes muppet!
Phew....nearly got me there ::)
You are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
You can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:15:46 PM
Here To, have a look at Sinn Féin's 'alternate' budget proposals and tell us what you think:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html)
Very hard for me to disagree with any of that.
(http://www.tipsfromthetrenchesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/catndog-fault.jpg)
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 15, 2011, 04:54:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 04:15:46 PM
Here To, have a look at Sinn Féin's 'alternate' budget proposals and tell us what you think:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html)
Very hard for me to disagree with any of that.
There is a problem.
If everyone earning less than €75,000 will be 'better off' then they are either lying or their plan is nonsense.
This is from the Department of Finance 2009: http://taxpolicy.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/09.03.pdf (http://taxpolicy.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/09.03.pdf)
Gross Earnings % Income Earners % Tax Paid
> €200,000 1% 26%
> €100,100 4% 48%
> €75,000 8% 62%
> €50,000 19% 82%
< €50,000 81% 18%
'Better off' suggests they will lower the tax take for 92% of the workforce. That will reduce the tax take and increase the deficit which is already out of control. Don't get me wrong I don't like taxes any more than the next man, but this is just populism.
Muppet - I think there's an explanation. USC is not included in tax take but is apparently a credit on the expenditure side, much like the Health levy was. Tax take would not change but the abolition of the USC and replacement by health levy and PRSI would leave earners under €75k better off. The other expenditure measure must make up the gap.
They say this has all been costed by the Department of Finance (with the exception of the Wealth Tax) so its not just voodoo economics like may have been practiced previously.
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 15, 2011, 05:36:24 PM
Muppet - I think there's an explanation. USC is not included in tax take but is apparently a credit on the expenditure side, much like the Health levy was. Tax take would not change but the abolition of the USC and replacement by health levy and PRSI would leave earners under €75k better off. The other expenditure measure must make up the gap.
They say this has all been costed by the Department of Finance (with the exception of the Wealth Tax) so its not just voodoo economics like may have been practiced previously.
USC replaced by a 1% levy seems to be what is suggested. I take your point but either way 92% of workers would be contributing 4% less of their incomes to the revenue. Hard to see how that would address the deficit. No mention of what to do with the banks and bondholders either, surprisingly.
QuoteYou are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
I simply posted a link which you inevitably attacked as usual ::)
...reverse psychology at its finest, hardly noticed :D
QuoteYou can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Unlike yourself Muppet, I tend to stick to subjects on Countries I live in and know
something about...not sounding like a know it all clown trying to seem smarter than everyone else with your white crow mentality! ;D
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 05:47:45 PM
QuoteYou are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
I simply posted a link which you inevitably attacked as usual ::)
...reverse psychology at its finest, hardly noticed :D
QuoteYou can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Unlike yourself Muppet, I tend to stick to subjects on Countries I live in and know
something about...not sounding like a know it all clown trying to seem smarter than everyone else with your white crow mentality! ;D
Where in Israel do you live?
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 05:47:45 PM
QuoteYou are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
I simply posted a link which you inevitably attacked as usual ::)
...reverse psychology at its finest, hardly noticed :D
QuoteYou can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Unlike yourself Muppet, I tend to stick to subjects on Countries I live in and know
something about...not sounding like a know it all clown trying to seem smarter than everyone else with your white crow mentality! ;D
Where in Israel do you live?
An Banc Iarthair.
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 05:47:45 PM
QuoteYou are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
I simply posted a link which you inevitably attacked as usual ::)
...reverse psychology at its finest, hardly noticed :D
QuoteYou can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Unlike yourself Muppet, I tend to stick to subjects on Countries I live in and know
something about...not sounding like a know it all clown trying to seem smarter than everyone else with your white crow mentality! ;D
Where in Israel do you live?
I don't have to have lived in a Country to know the out and out
sheer blinkered hatred directed towards it!
Where would you be muppet without the cheerleader back up :P
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 02:48:27 AM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent
Ah yes sure all Americans should be grateful to Monsanto...wouldn't want to be a small farmer if one of their patented seeds blows over from the neighbours farm.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/26/eveningnews/main4048288.shtml
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 08:09:37 PM
I don't have to have lived in a Country to know the out and out
sheer blinkered hatred directed towards it!
Where would you be muppet without the cheerleader back up :P
It beats being a cheerleader. ;D
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 05:47:45 PM
QuoteYou are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
I simply posted a link which you inevitably attacked as usual ::)
...reverse psychology at its finest, hardly noticed :D
QuoteYou can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Unlike yourself Muppet, I tend to stick to subjects on Countries I live in and know
something about...not sounding like a know it all clown trying to seem smarter than everyone else with your white crow mentality! ;D
Where in Israel do you live?
An Banc Iarthair.
An Banc thiar.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2011, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 05:47:45 PM
QuoteYou are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
I simply posted a link which you inevitably attacked as usual ::)
...reverse psychology at its finest, hardly noticed :D
QuoteYou can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Unlike yourself Muppet, I tend to stick to subjects on Countries I live in and know
something about...not sounding like a know it all clown trying to seem smarter than everyone else with your white crow mentality! ;D
Where in Israel do you live?
An Banc Iarthair.
An Banc thiar.
Íarbhainc?
You can explain how to pronounce it for TO.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2011, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 05:47:45 PM
QuoteYou are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
I simply posted a link which you inevitably attacked as usual ::)
...reverse psychology at its finest, hardly noticed :D
QuoteYou can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Unlike yourself Muppet, I tend to stick to subjects on Countries I live in and know
something about...not sounding like a know it all clown trying to seem smarter than everyone else with your white crow mentality! ;D
Where in Israel do you live?
An Banc Iarthair.
An Banc thiar.
It is called an Bruach Thiar as Gaeilge
TO probably lives here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjZXwTL-rK8
waiting for the Messiah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHBiT6eJaQQ&feature=related
Like the Messiah is going to come , dude
The Palestinians live like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m6dbknPHvwY
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 09:41:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2011, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 05:47:45 PM
QuoteYou are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
I simply posted a link which you inevitably attacked as usual ::)
...reverse psychology at its finest, hardly noticed :D
QuoteYou can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Unlike yourself Muppet, I tend to stick to subjects on Countries I live in and know
something about...not sounding like a know it all clown trying to seem smarter than everyone else with your white crow mentality! ;D
Where in Israel do you live?
An Banc Iarthair.
An Banc thiar.
It is called an Bruach Thiar as Gaeilge
TO probably lives here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjZXwTL-rK8
waiting for the Messiah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHBiT6eJaQQ&feature=related
Like the Messiah is going to come , dude
The Palestinians live like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m6dbknPHvwY
Hamas needs to spend less money on rockets, suicide vests and the rest
And put some of it towards those roads...they're a fecking disgrace :-[
*edit...notice you even managed to find away to bring you hatred
of Israel over here ::)
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 16, 2011, 01:30:43 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 09:41:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2011, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 15, 2011, 08:00:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2011, 07:58:16 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 15, 2011, 05:47:45 PM
QuoteYou are programmed to attack anyone that disagrees with the more extreme Republican ideology.
I simply posted a link which you inevitably attacked as usual ::)
...reverse psychology at its finest, hardly noticed :D
QuoteYou can't have an opinion on the above because there is no one to tell you what to think.
Unlike yourself Muppet, I tend to stick to subjects on Countries I live in and know
something about...not sounding like a know it all clown trying to seem smarter than everyone else with your white crow mentality! ;D
Where in Israel do you live?
An Banc Iarthair.
An Banc thiar.
It is called an Bruach Thiar as Gaeilge
TO probably lives here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjZXwTL-rK8
waiting for the Messiah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHBiT6eJaQQ&feature=related
Like the Messiah is going to come , dude
The Palestinians live like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m6dbknPHvwY
Hamas needs to spend less money on rockets, suicide vests and the rest
And put some of it towards those roads...they're a fecking disgrace :-[
*edit...notice you even managed to find away to bring you hatred
of Israel over here ::)
Hey TO
I found you on video
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/nov/15/herman-cain-libya-video
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 16, 2011, 01:30:43 AM
[Hamas The US needs to spend less money on rockets,
Fixed it for you :D
Quote from: Rossfan on November 16, 2011, 09:47:07 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 16, 2011, 01:30:43 AM
[Hamas The US needs to spend less money on rockets,
Fixed it for you :D
Yes maybe I should start a propaganda campaign to blame our
Neighbours for the state of the infrastructure here :D
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/video/2011/nov/16/99-v-1-occupy-data-animation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/video/2011/nov/16/99-v-1-occupy-data-animation)
More pinko liberal propaganda ;)
Quote from: Declan on November 17, 2011, 09:57:25 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/video/2011/nov/16/99-v-1-occupy-data-animation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/video/2011/nov/16/99-v-1-occupy-data-animation)
More pinko liberal propaganda ;)
Well it is yet a n o t h e r....... link to the Guardian after all,
and a piece pain stakingly searched out by one of you lads
to match the beat of the drum around here...so yes, what
else could it possibly be ;)
I thought this was funny / interesting....
Protest becomes what it was protesting about....
http://gawker.com/5860377/the-daily-show-airs-another-occupy-wall-street-hit-piece (http://gawker.com/5860377/the-daily-show-airs-another-occupy-wall-street-hit-piece)
Quote from: Declan on November 17, 2011, 09:57:25 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/video/2011/nov/16/99-v-1-occupy-data-animation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/video/2011/nov/16/99-v-1-occupy-data-animation)
More pinko liberal propaganda ;)
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
Quote from: dec on November 17, 2011, 08:24:29 PM
Quote from: Declan on November 17, 2011, 09:57:25 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/video/2011/nov/16/99-v-1-occupy-data-animation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/video/2011/nov/16/99-v-1-occupy-data-animation)
More pinko liberal propaganda ;)
Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
Liberal bias is well-known in reality.
Israel is getting antsy to get at Iran, if they strike i can only imagine what will happen on this thread.
Quote from: stew on November 21, 2011, 10:31:56 PM
Israel is getting antsy to get at Iran, if they strike i can only imagine what will happen on this thread.
Not a thing Stew, the warriors embedded amongst us here would be on the
the next plane out there in defense of their brothers... :D
#notlikely
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 21, 2011, 10:39:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 21, 2011, 10:31:56 PM
Israel is getting antsy to get at Iran, if they strike i can only imagine what will happen on this thread.
Not a thing Stew, the warriors embedded amongst us here would be on the
the next plane out there in defense of their brothers... :D
#notlikely
Dear feck!
http://cowped.blogspot.com/2011/11/alexei-billy-bailouts-and-stuff.html
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 21, 2011, 10:39:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 21, 2011, 10:31:56 PM
Israel is getting antsy to get at Iran, if they strike i can only imagine what will happen on this thread.
Not a thing Stew, the warriors embedded amongst us here would be on the
the next plane out there in defense of their brothers... :D
#notlikely
And the reason you're not in Iraq is...?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2011, 12:43:47 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 21, 2011, 10:39:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 21, 2011, 10:31:56 PM
Israel is getting antsy to get at Iran, if they strike i can only imagine what will happen on this thread.
Not a thing Stew, the warriors embedded amongst us here would be on the
the next plane out there in defense of their brothers... :D
#notlikely
And the reason you're not in Iraq is...?
Why would I?...I've never defended Iraq
Why are you in the US?
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 22, 2011, 06:09:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2011, 12:43:47 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 21, 2011, 10:39:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 21, 2011, 10:31:56 PM
Israel is getting antsy to get at Iran, if they strike i can only imagine what will happen on this thread.
Not a thing Stew, the warriors embedded amongst us here would be on the
the next plane out there in defense of their brothers... :D
#notlikely
And the reason you're not in Iraq is...?
Why would I?...I've never defended Iraq
Why are you in the US?
Because he is a hypocrite like a lot on here, thats why.
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 22, 2011, 06:09:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2011, 12:43:47 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 21, 2011, 10:39:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 21, 2011, 10:31:56 PM
Israel is getting antsy to get at Iran, if they strike i can only imagine what will happen on this thread.
Not a thing Stew, the warriors embedded amongst us here would be on the
the next plane out there in defense of their brothers... :D
#notlikely
And the reason you're not in Iraq is...?
Why would I?...I've never defended Iraq
Why are you in the US?
Classic classic straw man.
No remotely sane person has ever accused you of defending Iraq, having any regard for Iraq or even having the slightest consideration for anyone from Iraq.
Quote from: muppet on November 22, 2011, 11:36:41 PM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 22, 2011, 06:09:49 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 22, 2011, 12:43:47 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 21, 2011, 10:39:16 PM
Quote from: stew on November 21, 2011, 10:31:56 PM
Israel is getting antsy to get at Iran, if they strike i can only imagine what will happen on this thread.
Not a thing Stew, the warriors embedded amongst us here would be on the
the next plane out there in defense of their brothers... :D
#notlikely
And the reason you're not in Iraq is...?
Why would I?...I've never defended Iraq
Why are you in the US?
Classic classic straw man.
No remotely sane person has ever accused you of defending Iraq, having any regard for Iraq or even having the slightest consideration for anyone from Iraq.
Says you :D
Are you boy's not constantly defending everything and anything that's leveled at Israel ???
She's a big girl Muppet and
can answer her own questions ;)
Why are you in this country Eamonn?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 23, 2011, 08:19:15 AM
Quote from: Tyrones own on November 22, 2011, 06:09:49 PM
I've never defended Iraq
I'm aware of that.
Yes and we're also aware of how difficult it is for you to
answer that question :-X
#hypocrite
It's none of your business.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 23, 2011, 05:18:53 PM
It's none of your business.
Those headlights have gone desperate dim on what is clearly an empty vessel !