gaaboard.com

Ah poor wittle nigel, no-one wants to take his calls!
Gurning aul shite.  :D


NI poised to lose Devine and Ferguson to Republic
Northern Ireland are set to see another two of their young players switching allegience to the Republic of Ireland.

NI boss Nigel Worthington has been informed that Preston North End defender Daniel Devine has opted to play for the Republic.

Worthington believes Shane Ferguson intends making the same move after the Newcastle United defender failed to reply to his calls.

A Fifa ruling allows N Ireland-born players to opt for the Republic.

Fifa rules include a clause allowing players to change nationality once before they play a senior competitive match if they were born "on the territory of the relevant association".

The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 provided for Northern Ireland-born people to claim either British or Irish nationality.

Darron Gibson, Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson, Daniel Kearns and Paul George have already made the move to the Republic.

There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing. Quote Nigel Worthington

Teenagers Devine and Ferguson, who played for the senior team in a friendly against Italy in 2009, have also represented Northern Ireland at youth level.

A disappointed Worthington wants further clarification on the eligibility ruling.

"It needs to be more black and white - to put all the indecision to bed once and for all," he said.

"It's frustrating and disappointing that a lot of time, energy, commitment and finance goes into these players over a period of years and then when they are 17, 18, 19 or even 20, there is the opportunity for them, because of the ruling, to vacate to another country.

"There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing.

"I've left voicemails, text messages and made random calls to Shane (Ferguson) but at no time did we get a reply."

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.885 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=4321.885)

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 18, 2011, 09:50:31 AM
Ah poor wittle nigel, no-one wants to take his calls!
Gurning aul shite.  :D

"I've left voicemails, text messages and made random calls to Shane (Ferguson) but at no time did we get a reply."

While I think it's great these players want to play for the Republic, I think this guy  Shane Ferguson could have least answered or returned a call to Worthington to tell him of his intentions.
Manners cost nothing and I think it reflects poorly on Ferguson.

Quote from: laoislad on May 18, 2011, 09:55:53 AM
While I think it's great these players want to play for the Republic, I think this guy  Shane Ferguson could have least answered or returned a call to Worthington to tell him of his intentions.
Manners cost nothing and I think it reflects poorly on Ferguson.

Do you know that he or someone on his behalf didn't inform Worthington?

Time to ditch GSTQ as the "anthem" methinks.

That isnt gonna change anything. Practically all nationalists in the 6 who follow soccer follow the RoI team. This isn't gonna change any time soon, and it isn't helped my gtsq, sectarian behaviour of fans, abuse of catholic players by their own supporters etc, but that isnt the main reason.

Players play for NI underage because thats where the system leads them, then that may follow on to the senior squad if they're good enough, but if they're good enough to attract interest from both jurisdictions, they're obviously gonna choose the team they have supported from childhood.

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 11:17:59 AM
That isnt gonna change anything. Practically all nationalists in the 6 who follow soccer follow the RoI team. This isn't gonna change any time soon, and it isn't helped my gtsq, sectarian behaviour of fans, abuse of catholic players by their own supporters etc, but that isnt the main reason.

Players play for NI underage because thats where the system leads them, then that may follow on to the senior squad if they're good enough, but if they're good enough to attract interest from both jurisdictions, they're obviously gonna choose the team they have supported from childhood.

Or the team that has a greater chance of qualifying for a major competition !

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 11:17:59 AM
,abuse of catholic players by their own supporters etc, but that isnt the main reason.[/b]

Players play for NI underage because thats where the system leads them, then that may follow on to the senior squad if they're good enough, but if they're good enough to attract interest from both jurisdictions, they're obviously gonna choose the team they have supported from childhood.

The emboldened part  of your first paragraph isn't happening.

The second paragraph is closer to reality.

I know Shane he's a great young fella and was a handy Gaelic Football for Faughanvale GAC up in Doire, went to Saint Mary's Limavady were his PE teacher was Mickey Moran. Great at the ground stuff, as you can tell, always running about in a ROI jersey. Goodluck to him in finally getting to represent the nation.

Young nationalists are going to have to want to play for the IFA team and at the moment there is nothing there to encourage them to give their allegiance to the north. It's not enough to stop abusing players what they'll need to do afford equal respect to the Irish traditions/identity on this island. There are two ways they could do this:

• remove all British trappings such as the anthem and symbols of the discredited Stormont regime, replace them with something neutral and hope they can foster something in the future everyone can identify with
• afford equal status for Irish symbols and flags

Neither is going to be palatable for the NI soccer crowd I suspect. 

Quote from: Ulick on May 18, 2011, 11:53:54 AM
Young nationalists are going to have to want to play for the IFA team and at the moment there is nothing there to encourage them to give their allegiance to the north. It's not enough to stop abusing players what they'll need to do afford equal respect to the Irish traditions/identity on this island. There are two ways they could do this:

• remove all British trappings such as the anthem and symbols of the discredited Stormont regime, replace them with something neutral and hope they can foster something in the future everyone can identify with
• afford equal status for Irish symbols and flags

Neither is going to be palatable for the NI soccer crowd I suspect.

Correct

Quote from: Ulick on May 18, 2011, 11:53:54 AM
Young nationalists are going to have to want to play for the IFA team and at the moment there is nothing there to encourage them to give their allegiance to the north. It's not enough to stop abusing players what they'll need to do afford equal respect to the Irish traditions/identity on this island. There are two ways they could do this:

• remove all British trappings such as the anthem and symbols of the discredited Stormont regime, replace them with something neutral and hope they can foster something in the future everyone can identify with
• afford equal status for Irish symbols and flags

Neither is going to be palatable for the NI soccer crowd I suspect.

In fairness, the NI soccer crowd could do everything you ask and I doubt it would make one person change his mind about who they want to play for. So why, apart from a pompous desire to 'do the right thing', should they bother?

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 11:45:52 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 11:17:59 AM
,abuse of catholic players by their own supporters etc, but that isnt the main reason.[/b]

Players play for NI underage because thats where the system leads them, then that may follow on to the senior squad if they're good enough, but if they're good enough to attract interest from both jurisdictions, they're obviously gonna choose the team they have supported from childhood.

The emboldened part  of your first paragraph isn't happening.

The second paragraph is closer to reality.

I didnt say it was currently happening - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

Yes, but why would anyone want to.

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 18, 2011, 09:50:31 AM
Ah poor wittle nigel, no-one wants to take his calls!
Gurning aul shite.  :D


NI poised to lose Devine and Ferguson to Republic
Northern Ireland are set to see another two of their young players switching allegience to the Republic of Ireland.

NI boss Nigel Worthington has been informed that Preston North End defender Daniel Devine has opted to play for the Republic.

Worthington believes Shane Ferguson intends making the same move after the Newcastle United defender failed to reply to his calls.

A Fifa ruling allows N Ireland-born players to opt for the Republic.

Fifa rules include a clause allowing players to change nationality once before they play a senior competitive match if they were born "on the territory of the relevant association".

The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 provided for Northern Ireland-born people to claim either British or Irish nationality.

Darron Gibson, Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson, Daniel Kearns and Paul George have already made the move to the Republic.

There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing. Quote Nigel Worthington

Teenagers Devine and Ferguson, who played for the senior team in a friendly against Italy in 2009, have also represented Northern Ireland at youth level.

A disappointed Worthington wants further clarification on the eligibility ruling.

"It needs to be more black and white - to put all the indecision to bed once and for all," he said.

"It's frustrating and disappointing that a lot of time, energy, commitment and finance goes into these players over a period of years and then when they are 17, 18, 19 or even 20, there is the opportunity for them, because of the ruling, to vacate to another country.

"There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing.

"I've left voicemails, text messages and made random calls to Shane (Ferguson) but at no time did we get a reply."

So is the so called "Free State"  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) now the Proper Ireland  ;D . This gets so confusing. What is it with people from the 6 counties (Gaoth Dobhair Abu is from Donegal so question not aimed at him) supporting the crowd they tell to "take it down from the mast Irish traitors"?

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 18, 2011, 01:17:51 PM

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

Yes, but why would anyone want to.

I think it would be quite amusing if you were crap and could'nt get on the Ireland team to declare for the north.

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 18, 2011, 01:20:52 PM

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 18, 2011, 09:50:31 AM
Ah poor wittle nigel, no-one wants to take his calls!
Gurning aul shite.  :D


NI poised to lose Devine and Ferguson to Republic
Northern Ireland are set to see another two of their young players switching allegience to the Republic of Ireland.

NI boss Nigel Worthington has been informed that Preston North End defender Daniel Devine has opted to play for the Republic.

Worthington believes Shane Ferguson intends making the same move after the Newcastle United defender failed to reply to his calls.

A Fifa ruling allows N Ireland-born players to opt for the Republic.

Fifa rules include a clause allowing players to change nationality once before they play a senior competitive match if they were born "on the territory of the relevant association".

The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 provided for Northern Ireland-born people to claim either British or Irish nationality.

Darron Gibson, Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson, Daniel Kearns and Paul George have already made the move to the Republic.

There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing. Quote Nigel Worthington

Teenagers Devine and Ferguson, who played for the senior team in a friendly against Italy in 2009, have also represented Northern Ireland at youth level.

A disappointed Worthington wants further clarification on the eligibility ruling.

"It needs to be more black and white - to put all the indecision to bed once and for all," he said.

"It's frustrating and disappointing that a lot of time, energy, commitment and finance goes into these players over a period of years and then when they are 17, 18, 19 or even 20, there is the opportunity for them, because of the ruling, to vacate to another country.

"There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing.

"I've left voicemails, text messages and made random calls to Shane (Ferguson) but at no time did we get a reply."

So is the so called "Free State"  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) now the Proper Ireland  ;D . This gets so confusing. What is it with people from the 6 counties (Gaoth Dobhair Abu is from Donegal so question not aimed at him) supporting the crowd they tell to "take it down from the mast Irish traitors"?

While I don't care about either team and would support a 32 county Irish cricket or hockey team ahead of either of them, you appear to wish to deny people a choice as to who they mostly feel in touch with. Would you like my Irish passport back as well? If so, gimme back all the taxes I've paid.

Quote from: DoireGael on May 18, 2011, 01:21:55 PM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 18, 2011, 01:17:51 PM

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

Yes, but why would anyone want to.

I think it would be quite amusing if you were crap and could'nt get on the Ireland team to declare for the north.

I don't really think the "strength" of the south's team is anything to be boasting about either!

Quote from: gallsman on May 18, 2011, 01:27:04 PM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 18, 2011, 01:20:52 PM

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 18, 2011, 09:50:31 AM
Ah poor wittle nigel, no-one wants to take his calls!
Gurning aul shite.  :D


NI poised to lose Devine and Ferguson to Republic
Northern Ireland are set to see another two of their young players switching allegience to the Republic of Ireland.

NI boss Nigel Worthington has been informed that Preston North End defender Daniel Devine has opted to play for the Republic.

Worthington believes Shane Ferguson intends making the same move after the Newcastle United defender failed to reply to his calls.

A Fifa ruling allows N Ireland-born players to opt for the Republic.

Fifa rules include a clause allowing players to change nationality once before they play a senior competitive match if they were born "on the territory of the relevant association".

The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 provided for Northern Ireland-born people to claim either British or Irish nationality.

Darron Gibson, Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson, Daniel Kearns and Paul George have already made the move to the Republic.

There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing. Quote Nigel Worthington

Teenagers Devine and Ferguson, who played for the senior team in a friendly against Italy in 2009, have also represented Northern Ireland at youth level.

A disappointed Worthington wants further clarification on the eligibility ruling.

"It needs to be more black and white - to put all the indecision to bed once and for all," he said.

"It's frustrating and disappointing that a lot of time, energy, commitment and finance goes into these players over a period of years and then when they are 17, 18, 19 or even 20, there is the opportunity for them, because of the ruling, to vacate to another country.

"There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing.

"I've left voicemails, text messages and made random calls to Shane (Ferguson) but at no time did we get a reply."

So is the so called "Free State"  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) now the Proper Ireland  ;D . This gets so confusing. What is it with people from the 6 counties (Gaoth Dobhair Abu is from Donegal so question not aimed at him) supporting the crowd they tell to "take it down from the mast Irish traitors"?

While I don't care about either team and would support a 32 county Irish cricket or hockey team ahead of either of them, you appear to wish to deny people a choice as to who they mostly feel in touch with. Would you like my Irish passport back as well? If so, gimme back all the taxes I've paid.

Quote from: DoireGael on May 18, 2011, 01:21:55 PM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 18, 2011, 01:17:51 PM

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

Yes, but why would anyone want to.

I think it would be quite amusing if you were crap and could'nt get on the Ireland team to declare for the north.

I don't really think the "strength" of the south's team is anything to be boasting about either!

They feel most in touch with the "Republic of Ireland" soccer team, the team that represents the same country they call "Free Staters", "Irish Traitors", "West Brits", "Mexicans" (would be a complement if we were from Mexico). Sick of  British soccer team wearing (Glasgow Celtic) idiots telling me I sold them out. Then they proceed to wear that disgusting Glasgow Celtic abomination and support the team of the"Sell Outs" (ROI soccer team).

I agree with you that an 32 county football (GAA), cricket or rugby team would be a much preferable day out to support than the Irish soccer team (either one).

I dont understand. Are they wearing the celtic gear when they tell you you sold them out, or do they start to wear it after they tell you you've sold them out?

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 01:39:49 PM
I dont understand. Are they wearing the celtic gear when they tell you you sold them out, or do they start to wear it after they tell you you've sold them out?

:D Tends to be Glasgow Celtic types. Same ones who choose to go to that super suday shite and watch British soccer instead of Irish football, hurling, cricket, golf or rugby etc.

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 18, 2011, 01:35:00 PM
Sick of  British soccer team wearing (Glasgow Celtic) idiots telling me I sold them out. Then they proceed to wear that disgusting Glasgow Celtic abomination

No, but really, which is it? Its not at all clear from the above.

Also, have you considered that it may be as a direct result of your having sold them out that they are now supporting british sports and clubs, given that no doubt the british influence on this island is much greater because of britains continued presence on it?   ;)

I agree with Nigel: "If you are born in the country you should be representing that country."

Can't get any more black and white than that, wonder will he be telling young Caolan Lavery to push on back to Canada?

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

I'm sure it's been asked before but I still don't know the answer. I think the answer is no. It's NI that is the special case, not the RoI

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 01:09:05 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 11:45:52 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 11:17:59 AM
,abuse of catholic players by their own supporters etc, but that isnt the main reason.[/b]

Players play for NI underage because thats where the system leads them, then that may follow on to the senior squad if they're good enough, but if they're good enough to attract interest from both jurisdictions, they're obviously gonna choose the team they have supported from childhood.

The emboldened part  of your first paragraph isn't happening.

The second paragraph is closer to reality.

I didnt say it was currently happening - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

Quote from: deiseach on May 18, 2011, 01:58:14 PM

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

I'm sure it's been asked before but I still don't know the answer. I think the answer is no. It's NI that is the special case, not the RoI

I think the possibility was certainly mooted by FIFA, but IIRC there was at best a luke warm reaction from the IFA. Can't see why in theory it shouldn't be the case.

Dan Devine has being doing a bit of yoyo-ing with his decision.

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 18, 2011, 01:17:51 PM

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

Yes, but why would anyone want to.

No they can't. FIFA offered that option before they made their final ruling but it was rejected by the IFA.

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.
[/quote]

It was written in the continuous present tense. It was in the recent past, couldnt be ruled out happening again, and as such is still an important factor for anyone choosing who to play for.

Mildly surprised I would say - and no doubt very annoyed., for there are many NI fans inlc yourself I'm sure, who would abhor such behaviour. However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.

Quote from: deiseach on May 18, 2011, 12:32:36 PM

Quote from: Ulick on May 18, 2011, 11:53:54 AM
Young nationalists are going to have to want to play for the IFA team and at the moment there is nothing there to encourage them to give their allegiance to the north. It's not enough to stop abusing players what they'll need to do afford equal respect to the Irish traditions/identity on this island. There are two ways they could do this:

• remove all British trappings such as the anthem and symbols of the discredited Stormont regime, replace them with something neutral and hope they can foster something in the future everyone can identify with
• afford equal status for Irish symbols and flags

Neither is going to be palatable for the NI soccer crowd I suspect.

In fairness, the NI soccer crowd could do everything you ask and I doubt it would make one person change his mind about who they want to play for. So why, apart from a pompous desire to 'do the right thing', should they bother?

That is my perception. Just the wrong brand of Irish for these players (as the title of the thread more bluntly  asserts) ?

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.
[/quote]

How do you come to that conclusion?

They have been given many many opportunities over the last 10 years.

These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 18, 2011, 01:55:19 PM
I agree with Nigel: "If you are born in the country you should be representing that country."

Can't get any more black and white than that, wonder will he be telling young Caolan Lavery to push on back to Canada?

Or Maik Taylor to f**k off back to Germany via England, or Iain Dowie, or Kinglsey Black etc.  Maybe they could tell Lawrie Sanchez to bugger back to Venezuela via Blighty too, Camp to decamp?  He just doesn't get it, does he, that nationalists from the six counties consider themselves Irish, not 'northern' Irish (whatever that is), southern Irish, eastern Irish, or western Irish ... they're Irish

As someone from NI who follows the NI football team I can understand and appreciate why a young nationalist might prefer to opt for the Republic team.  The anthem for one ought to be changed. 

However, a point that has not yet been fully acknowledged in this thread is that as yet there have been no moves made by the FAI to attract young non-nationalists to opt for the ROI team.  As such, the FAI's approach could be construed as being sectarian in nature.  Given the attempts made to remove sectarianism from NI football, the approach adopted by the FAI does little to help improve the situation further and help make NI football more representative of everyone in NI society.

Quote from: michaelg on May 18, 2011, 10:27:20 PM
As someone from NI who follows the NI football team I can understand and appreciate why a young nationalist might prefer to opt for the Republic team.  The anthem for one ought to be changed. 

However, a point that has not yet been fully acknowledged in this thread is that as yet there have been no moves made by the FAI to attract young non-nationalists to opt for the ROI team.  As such, the FAI's approach could be construed as being sectarian in nature.  Given the attempts made to remove sectarianism from NI football, the approach adopted by the FAI does little to help improve the situation further and help make NI football more representative of everyone in NI society.

Eh?

And let's not forget, the FAI have had no problem attracting players born outside the island over the years!

So how good are the two defectors mentioned are they going to be top class internationals.

Do you mean the IFA?

Quote from: michaelg on May 18, 2011, 11:04:20 PM
Do you mean the IFA?

What have the Irish Famers Association got to do with it?

Quote from: Capt Pat on May 18, 2011, 11:03:45 PM
So how good are the two defectors mentioned are they going to be top class internationals.

Ferguson's good I hear , a greater loss than Gibson no doubt who is poor.

Don't know about Devine.

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

I was referring to the booing of Catholic players which I specifically took you up on in repsonse to the matters raised in your initial post.

Quote from: laoislad on May 18, 2011, 09:55:53 AM

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 18, 2011, 09:50:31 AM
Ah poor wittle nigel, no-one wants to take his calls!
Gurning aul shite.  :D

"I've left voicemails, text messages and made random calls to Shane (Ferguson) but at no time did we get a reply."

While I think it's great these players want to play for the Republic, I think this guy  Shane Ferguson could have least answered or returned a call to Worthington to tell him of his intentions.
Manners cost nothing and I think it reflects poorly on Ferguson.

He's only a youngster probably no credit on the oul phone.

Quote from: Canalman on May 18, 2011, 09:59:00 AM
Time to ditch GSTQ as the "anthem" methinks.

Not only that but the whole behaviour of the "fans" their union flags, party songs and the flying of the unofficial loyalist Ulster flag, but even at that any one who considers them selves Nationalist or Republican would still have issue playing for "Our Wee Country".

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 18, 2011, 01:20:52 PM

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 18, 2011, 09:50:31 AM
Ah poor wittle nigel, no-one wants to take his calls!
Gurning aul shite.  :D


NI poised to lose Devine and Ferguson to Republic
Northern Ireland are set to see another two of their young players switching allegience to the Republic of Ireland.

NI boss Nigel Worthington has been informed that Preston North End defender Daniel Devine has opted to play for the Republic.

Worthington believes Shane Ferguson intends making the same move after the Newcastle United defender failed to reply to his calls.

A Fifa ruling allows N Ireland-born players to opt for the Republic.

Fifa rules include a clause allowing players to change nationality once before they play a senior competitive match if they were born "on the territory of the relevant association".

The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 provided for Northern Ireland-born people to claim either British or Irish nationality.

Darron Gibson, Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson, Daniel Kearns and Paul George have already made the move to the Republic.

There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing. Quote Nigel Worthington

Teenagers Devine and Ferguson, who played for the senior team in a friendly against Italy in 2009, have also represented Northern Ireland at youth level.

A disappointed Worthington wants further clarification on the eligibility ruling.

"It needs to be more black and white - to put all the indecision to bed once and for all," he said.

"It's frustrating and disappointing that a lot of time, energy, commitment and finance goes into these players over a period of years and then when they are 17, 18, 19 or even 20, there is the opportunity for them, because of the ruling, to vacate to another country.

"There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing.

"I've left voicemails, text messages and made random calls to Shane (Ferguson) but at no time did we get a reply."

So is the so called "Free State"  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) now the Proper Ireland  ;D . This gets so confusing. What is it with people from the 6 counties (Gaoth Dobhair Abu is from Donegal so question not aimed at him) supporting the crowd they tell to "take it down from the mast Irish traitors"?

Time to move on from this boring theme you take in to every debate...Fcukin Boring.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:46:02 AM

Quote from: Canalman on May 18, 2011, 09:59:00 AM
Time to ditch GSTQ as the "anthem" methinks.

Not only that but the whole behaviour of the "fans" their union flags, party songs and the flying of the unofficial loyalist Ulster flag, but even at that any one who considers them selves Nationalist or Republican would still have issue playing for "Our Wee Country".

Why?

Quote from: deiseach on May 18, 2011, 01:58:14 PM

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

I'm sure it's been asked before but I still don't know the answer. I think the answer is no. It's NI that is the special case, not the RoI

GFA changed all that any one on the Island can be British or Irish and hence declare for either. Just on that the recent trend was started when the IFA insisted that Catholics with an Irish Passport needed to get a British one before they could represent NI...Something tells me it may have been Darren Gibson who was at the centre of this.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:50:57 AM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 18, 2011, 01:20:52 PM

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on May 18, 2011, 09:50:31 AM
Ah poor wittle nigel, no-one wants to take his calls!
Gurning aul shite.  :D


NI poised to lose Devine and Ferguson to Republic
Northern Ireland are set to see another two of their young players switching allegience to the Republic of Ireland.

NI boss Nigel Worthington has been informed that Preston North End defender Daniel Devine has opted to play for the Republic.

Worthington believes Shane Ferguson intends making the same move after the Newcastle United defender failed to reply to his calls.

A Fifa ruling allows N Ireland-born players to opt for the Republic.

Fifa rules include a clause allowing players to change nationality once before they play a senior competitive match if they were born "on the territory of the relevant association".

The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 provided for Northern Ireland-born people to claim either British or Irish nationality.

Darron Gibson, Shane Duffy, Marc Wilson, Daniel Kearns and Paul George have already made the move to the Republic.

There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing. Quote Nigel Worthington

Teenagers Devine and Ferguson, who played for the senior team in a friendly against Italy in 2009, have also represented Northern Ireland at youth level.

A disappointed Worthington wants further clarification on the eligibility ruling.

"It needs to be more black and white - to put all the indecision to bed once and for all," he said.

"It's frustrating and disappointing that a lot of time, energy, commitment and finance goes into these players over a period of years and then when they are 17, 18, 19 or even 20, there is the opportunity for them, because of the ruling, to vacate to another country.

"There is a good production line here and to lose them is disappointing.

"I've left voicemails, text messages and made random calls to Shane (Ferguson) but at no time did we get a reply."

So is the so called "Free State"  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) now the Proper Ireland  ;D . This gets so confusing. What is it with people from the 6 counties (Gaoth Dobhair Abu is from Donegal so question not aimed at him) supporting the crowd they tell to "take it down from the mast Irish traitors"?

Time to move on from this boring theme you take in to every debate...Fcukin Boring.

Not as if you lads can't get off your fckn boring theme in eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy debate.

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 04:03:43 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.

How do you come to that conclusion?

They have been given many many opportunities over the last 10 years.
[/quote]
Why did Scotland fans ask if NI fans were England in disguise?

Quote from: michaelg on May 18, 2011, 10:27:20 PM
As someone from NI who follows the NI football team I can understand and appreciate why a young nationalist might prefer to opt for the Republic team.  The anthem for one ought to be changed. 

However, a point that has not yet been fully acknowledged in this thread is that as yet there have been no moves made by the FAI to attract young non-nationalists to opt for the ROI team.  As such, the FAI's approach could be construed as being sectarian in nature.  Given the attempts made to remove sectarianism from NI football, the approach adopted by the FAI does little to help improve the situation further and help make NI football more representative of everyone in NI society.

You miss the point, the vast majority of Nationalist have no allegience to NI, they would even support England first.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 19, 2011, 09:55:39 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:46:02 AM

Quote from: Canalman on May 18, 2011, 09:59:00 AM
Time to ditch GSTQ as the "anthem" methinks.

Not only that but the whole behaviour of the "fans" their union flags, party songs and the flying of the unofficial loyalist Ulster flag, but even at that any one who considers them selves Nationalist or Republican would still have issue playing for "Our Wee Country".

Why?

Partition

You miss the point, the vast majority of Nationalist have no allegience to NI, they would even support England first.

What about Marty McG the Deputy First Minister and half of the Executive?

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:56:23 AM

Quote from: deiseach on May 18, 2011, 01:58:14 PM

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

I'm sure it's been asked before but I still don't know the answer. I think the answer is no. It's NI that is the special case, not the RoI

GFA changed all that any one on the Island can be British or Irish and hence declare for either. Just on that the recent trend was started when the IFA insisted that Catholics with an Irish Passport needed to get a British one before they could represent NI...Something tells me it may have been Darren Gibson who was at the centre of this.

The GFA does not insist that a person from Northern Ireland  chooses between British and  Irish.

They are not mutually exclusive .

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:57:52 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 04:03:43 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.

How do you come to that conclusion?

They have been given many many opportunities over the last 10 years.

Why did Scotland fans ask if NI fans were England in disguise?
[/quote]

Don't know. That's a question to be answered by Scotland fans. Good disguise mind - all those green shirts.

Not sure what relevance this has to the alleged  booing of Catholic players though?

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 10:15:43 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:56:23 AM

Quote from: deiseach on May 18, 2011, 01:58:14 PM

Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2011, 01:11:33 PM
I'm sure this has been asked before but can someone from the South declare for the North?

I'm sure it's been asked before but I still don't know the answer. I think the answer is no. It's NI that is the special case, not the RoI

GFA changed all that any one on the Island can be British or Irish and hence declare for either. Just on that the recent trend was started when the IFA insisted that Catholics with an Irish Passport needed to get a British one before they could represent NI...Something tells me it may have been Darren Gibson who was at the centre of this.

The GFA does not insist that a person from Northern Ireland  chooses between British and  Irish.

They are not mutually exclusive .

You are right they can be both, but I was referring to the context of the debate on football eligiblity.

Quote from: michaelg on May 19, 2011, 10:12:00 AM
You miss the point, the vast majority of Nationalist have no allegience to NI, they would even support England first.

What about Marty McG the Deputy First Minister and half of the Executive?

Where has he stated his allegience?

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 10:19:29 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:57:52 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 04:03:43 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.

How do you come to that conclusion?

They have been given many many opportunities over the last 10 years.

Why did Scotland fans ask if NI fans were England in disguise?

Don't know. That's a question to be answered by Scotland fans. Good disguise mind - all those green shirts.

Not sure what relevance this has to the alleged  booing of Catholic players though?
[/quote]
It was because of the songs they were singing the Union Flags etc... I found it amusing though to see fans bedecked in Red White and Blue cheering a team in green playing against a team in Blue White and Red..confused me as well.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 10:53:46 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 10:19:29 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:57:52 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 04:03:43 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.

How do you come to that conclusion?

They have been given many many opportunities over the last 10 years.

Why did Scotland fans ask if NI fans were England in disguise?

Don't know. That's a question to be answered by Scotland fans. Good disguise mind - all those green shirts.

Not sure what relevance this has to the alleged  booing of Catholic players though?

It was because of the songs they were singing the Union Flags etc... I found it amusing though to see fans bedecked in Red White and Blue cheering a team in green playing against a team in Blue White and Red..confused me as well.
[/quote]

Better not watch The Netherlands V Italy so  ;D

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 09:21:03 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

I was referring to the booing of Catholic players which I specifically took you up on in repsonse to the matters raised in your initial post.

Ffs sake, I made it clear I thought that it was part of an ongoing situation (it was the continuous present tense) which  would discourage nationalists from playing for NI, I said that given the scale of the booing there were bound to be still many fans attending who had been involved, and went on to say I doubt they had changed that much.

You asked what would lead me to believe that, I presented the above pieces. You read the posts and wrote responses so you clearly know how this has all followed through.

I'll quote you in future so you will have less opportunity to be selective in what you refer to, I had hoped I wouldnt have to.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 10:53:46 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 10:19:29 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:57:52 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 04:03:43 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.

How do you come to that conclusion?

They have been given many many opportunities over the last 10 years.

Why did Scotland fans ask if NI fans were England in disguise?

Don't know. That's a question to be answered by Scotland fans. Good disguise mind - all those green shirts.

Not sure what relevance this has to the alleged  booing of Catholic players though?

It was because of the songs they were singing the Union Flags etc... I found it amusing though to see fans bedecked in Red White and Blue cheering a team in green playing against a team in Blue White and Red..confused me as well.
[/quote]

I still fail to see the relevance. Are you saying that a NI fan who  waves a Union flag  at a NI  game will boo a Catholic player?   I have not heard one Catholic player booed at a game in the last 10 years.

I think that you will find that the vast majority of  fans are/were "bedecked" in green .

Italy v Holland must really confuse you too.

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 11:20:58 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 10:53:46 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 10:19:29 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:57:52 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 04:03:43 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.

How do you come to that conclusion?

They have been given many many opportunities over the last 10 years.

Why did Scotland fans ask if NI fans were England in disguise?

Don't know. That's a question to be answered by Scotland fans. Good disguise mind - all those green shirts.

Not sure what relevance this has to the alleged  booing of Catholic players though?

It was because of the songs they were singing the Union Flags etc... I found it amusing though to see fans bedecked in Red White and Blue cheering a team in green playing against a team in Blue White and Red..confused me as well.

I still fail to see the relevance. Are you saying that a NI fan who  waves a Union flag  at a NI  game will boo a Catholic player?   I have not heard one Catholic player booed at a game in the last 10 years.

I think that you will find that the vast majority of  fans are/were "bedecked" in green .

Italy v Holland must really confuse you too.
[/quote]
The point I am making is that all those flags, sectarian songs and British Anthems are disrespectful to Nationalist who play for NI. If you can't see that then something is wrong. No confusion with Italy NL as most Dutch fans fly orange and white flags from what I've seen. Compare the NI fans/Association to Ulster Rugby who have worked hard to promote the flying of flags that show support only for the team and not political identity.

Quote from: haranguerer on May 19, 2011, 11:16:05 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 09:21:03 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

I was referring to the booing of Catholic players which I specifically took you up on in repsonse to the matters raised in your initial post.

Ffs sake, I made it clear I thought that it was part of an ongoing situation (it was the continuous present tense) which  would discourage nationalists from playing for NI, I said that given the scale of the booing there were bound to be still many fans attending who had been involved, and went on to say I doubt they had changed that much.

You asked what would lead me to believe that, I presented the above pieces. You read the posts and wrote responses so you clearly know how this has all followed through.

I'll quote you in future so you will have less opportunity to be selective in what you refer to, I had hoped I wouldnt have to.

Of course the ongoing situation does not involve the booing of Catholic players. It always  seems to be added to the list dominated by flags and emblems.

That's one less thing to be discouraged by.

I find it difficult to comprehend that the songs sung inside the ground could be offensive to Nationalists. The IFA have no control over those sung outside the ground.

On balance I would be up for a more regionally distinctive anthem.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 11:28:34 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 11:20:58 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 10:53:46 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 10:19:29 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:57:52 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 04:03:43 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.

How do you come to that conclusion?

They have been given many many opportunities over the last 10 years.

Why did Scotland fans ask if NI fans were England in disguise?

Don't know. That's a question to be answered by Scotland fans. Good disguise mind - all those green shirts.

Not sure what relevance this has to the alleged  booing of Catholic players though?

It was because of the songs they were singing the Union Flags etc... I found it amusing though to see fans bedecked in Red White and Blue cheering a team in green playing against a team in Blue White and Red..confused me as well.

I still fail to see the relevance. Are you saying that a NI fan who  waves a Union flag  at a NI  game will boo a Catholic player?   I have not heard one Catholic player booed at a game in the last 10 years.

I think that you will find that the vast majority of  fans are/were "bedecked" in green .

Italy v Holland must really confuse you too.

Compare the NI fans/Association to Ulster Rugby who have worked hard to promote the flying of flags that show support only for the team and not political identity.
[/quote]

Have you been to Ravenhill? There are all manner of flags there ranging from NI flag, Ulster flag right through to Saffa flags and even a rising sun? You can fill your boots and  bring whatever you want. They don't stop you.

Ulster rugby is a club (like Northampton, Harlequins etc) and they therefore hand out the small  Ulster Rugby flags now and again like any other club team.

With respect you are comparing apples with oranges (forgive the pun) in any event. Ulster rugby is a  club representing no political jurisdiction whilst the  NI football team does.

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 11:56:54 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 19, 2011, 11:16:05 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 09:21:03 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

I was referring to the booing of Catholic players which I specifically took you up on in repsonse to the matters raised in your initial post.

Ffs sake, I made it clear I thought that it was part of an ongoing situation (it was the continuous present tense) which  would discourage nationalists from playing for NI, I said that given the scale of the booing there were bound to be still many fans attending who had been involved, and went on to say I doubt they had changed that much.

You asked what would lead me to believe that, I presented the above pieces. You read the posts and wrote responses so you clearly know how this has all followed through.

I'll quote you in future so you will have less opportunity to be selective in what you refer to, I had hoped I wouldnt have to.

Of course the ongoing situation does not involve the booing of Catholic players. It always  seems to be added to the list dominated by flags and emblems.

That's one less thing to be discouraged by.

I find it difficult to comprehend that the songs sung inside the ground could be offensive to Nationalists. The IFA have no control over those sung outside the ground.

On balance I would be up for a more regionally distinctive anthem.

Well there in lies the problem.

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 12:18:00 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 11:28:34 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 11:20:58 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 10:53:46 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 10:19:29 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 09:57:52 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 18, 2011, 04:03:43 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: Olaf link=topic=19288.msg961441#msg961441
b]I didnt say it was currently happening[/b] - but it has happened, (and the reaction was pretty sickening too - Jackie 'I think there were less boos that time' Fullerton) and I dont think anyone would be particularly surprised if it happened again.

1.Your post was written in the present tense.

2. I would be surprised as would anyone who attends the games.

However, I think there certainly remains many of those fans who partook in above behaviour, and I doubt they have changed that much.

How do you come to that conclusion?

They have been given many many opportunities over the last 10 years.

Why did Scotland fans ask if NI fans were England in disguise?

Don't know. That's a question to be answered by Scotland fans. Good disguise mind - all those green shirts.

Not sure what relevance this has to the alleged  booing of Catholic players though?

It was because of the songs they were singing the Union Flags etc... I found it amusing though to see fans bedecked in Red White and Blue cheering a team in green playing against a team in Blue White and Red..confused me as well.

I still fail to see the relevance. Are you saying that a NI fan who  waves a Union flag  at a NI  game will boo a Catholic player?   I have not heard one Catholic player booed at a game in the last 10 years.

I think that you will find that the vast majority of  fans are/were "bedecked" in green .

Italy v Holland must really confuse you too.

Compare the NI fans/Association to Ulster Rugby who have worked hard to promote the flying of flags that show support only for the team and not political identity.

Have you been to Ravenhill? There are all manner of flags there ranging from NI flag, Ulster flag right through to Saffa flags and even a rising sun? You can fill your boots and  bring whatever you want. They don't stop you.

Ulster rugby is a club (like Northampton, Harlequins etc) and they therefore hand out the small  Ulster Rugby flags now and again like any other club team.

With respect you are comparing apples with oranges (forgive the pun) in any event. Ulster rugby is a  club representing no political jurisdiction whilst the  NI football team does.
[/quote]
Yeah I have been to Ravenhill and whilst you see the odd Ulster (sic)Flag on Balance it as a provincial representative side is encouraging inclusion.

I have no real gripe with the NI football team, I like to see them win/be successful etc and would never support another team ahead of them, other than the ROI team.

That said, the two associations should merge back into one (probably under the banner of the IFA).

There are accusations of sectarianism by the FAI, however what annoys me is that the IFA in its current state continues to blissfully ignore the division that it's 'national' team creates. How on earth is anyone from a Nationalist background meant to feel any sense of belonging when the stadium is bedecked in Ulster banners and the Union Flag, with GSTQ as the anthem? Not to mention the potential for a few UVF songs?

The attiude seems to be, sure we've two lads who are subs at Celtic, and a handful more who are Catholic, none of whom get booed, we can't do anything more to attract Nationalists. 

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 19, 2011, 01:49:11 PM
I have no real gripe with the NI football team, I like to see them win/be successful etc and would never support another team ahead of them, other than the ROI team.

That said, the two associations should merge back into one (probably under the banner of the IFA).

There are accusations of sectarianism by the FAI, however what annoys me is that the IFA in its current state continues to blissfully ignore the division that it's 'national' team creates. How on earth is anyone from a Nationalist background meant to feel any sense of belonging when the stadium is bedecked in Ulster banners and the Union Flag, with GSTQ as the anthem? Not to mention the potential for a few UVF songs?

The attiude seems to be, sure we've two lads who are subs at Celtic, and a handful more who are Catholic, none of whom get booed, we can't do anything more to attract Nationalists.

As Deiseach alluded to earlier and especially  now that the element of choice has been strenghtened/copper fastened  by the CAS ruling do you think that there really is any point in the IFA pushing the boat out any further ? Will they be spitting in the wind as any Natiionalist will always opt for the Republic? Indeed FIFA recognise NI as one of the 4 British Associations .As I see it the division (in football terms) has widened and hardened unfortunately.

Whilst not a precise comparator the Unionist rugby players have respectfully stood for anthems and before flags that they have had no affinity with  in Dublin for 60 years  or so simply to play the game at the highest level. They have had no choice and presumably they have done so because they want to play the game they love at the highest possible level. If I had been in any way  good enough I would have done likewise. I say that this is not precisely comparable as the Irish rugby team represents 2 political jurisdictions and the NI football team just 1.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 01:35:57 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 11:56:54 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 19, 2011, 11:16:05 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 09:21:03 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

I was referring to the booing of Catholic players which I specifically took you up on in repsonse to the matters raised in your initial post.

Ffs sake, I made it clear I thought that it was part of an ongoing situation (it was the continuous present tense) which  would discourage nationalists from playing for NI, I said that given the scale of the booing there were bound to be still many fans attending who had been involved, and went on to say I doubt they had changed that much.

You asked what would lead me to believe that, I presented the above pieces. You read the posts and wrote responses so you clearly know how this has all followed through.

I'll quote you in future so you will have less opportunity to be selective in what you refer to, I had hoped I wouldnt have to.

Of course the ongoing situation does not involve the booing of Catholic players. It always  seems to be added to the list dominated by flags and emblems.

That's one less thing to be discouraged by.

I find it difficult to comprehend that the songs sung inside the ground could be offensive to Nationalists. The IFA have no control over those sung outside the ground.

On balance I would be up for a more regionally distinctive anthem.

Well there in lies the problem.

Where precisely?

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:13:08 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 19, 2011, 01:49:11 PM
I have no real gripe with the NI football team, I like to see them win/be successful etc and would never support another team ahead of them, other than the ROI team.

That said, the two associations should merge back into one (probably under the banner of the IFA).

There are accusations of sectarianism by the FAI, however what annoys me is that the IFA in its current state continues to blissfully ignore the division that it's 'national' team creates. How on earth is anyone from a Nationalist background meant to feel any sense of belonging when the stadium is bedecked in Ulster banners and the Union Flag, with GSTQ as the anthem? Not to mention the potential for a few UVF songs?

The attiude seems to be, sure we've two lads who are subs at Celtic, and a handful more who are Catholic, none of whom get booed, we can't do anything more to attract Nationalists.

As Deiseach alluded to earlier and especially  now that the element of choice has been strenghtened/copper fastened  by the CAS ruling do you think that there really is any point in the IFA pushing the boat out any further ? Will they be spitting in the wind as any Natiionalist will always opt for the Republic? Indeed FIFA recognise NI as one of the 4 British Associations .As I see it the division (in football terms) has widened and hardened unfortunately.

Whilst not a precise comparator the Unionist rugby players have respectfully stood for anthems and before flags that they have had no affinity with  in Dublin for 60 years  or so simply to play the game at the highest level. They have had no choice and presumably they have done so because they want to play the game they love at the highest possible level. If I had been in any way  good enough I would have done likewise. I say that this is not precisely comparable as the Irish rugby team represents 2 political jurisdictions and the NI football team just 1.

Only in Dublin is the Irish Antem played and the flag as with the Provincial teams is the IRFU's own flag. At all matches Irelands Call is played as a United Anthem. The Hockey and Cricket Teams have a flag with the four provincial standards on it, although I'm not sure of the anthem. But they are inclusive.

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:26:57 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 01:35:57 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 11:56:54 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 19, 2011, 11:16:05 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 09:21:03 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

I was referring to the booing of Catholic players which I specifically took you up on in repsonse to the matters raised in your initial post.

Ffs sake, I made it clear I thought that it was part of an ongoing situation (it was the continuous present tense) which  would discourage nationalists from playing for NI, I said that given the scale of the booing there were bound to be still many fans attending who had been involved, and went on to say I doubt they had changed that much.

You asked what would lead me to believe that, I presented the above pieces. You read the posts and wrote responses so you clearly know how this has all followed through.

I'll quote you in future so you will have less opportunity to be selective in what you refer to, I had hoped I wouldnt have to.

Of course the ongoing situation does not involve the booing of Catholic players. It always  seems to be added to the list dominated by flags and emblems.

That's one less thing to be discouraged by.

I find it difficult to comprehend that the songs sung inside the ground could be offensive to Nationalists. The IFA have no control over those sung outside the ground.

On balance I would be up for a more regionally distinctive anthem.

Well there in lies the problem.

Where precisely?

Your lack of understanding of the Nationalist psyche and what offends.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 02:32:17 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:13:08 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 19, 2011, 01:49:11 PM
I have no real gripe with the NI football team, I like to see them win/be successful etc and would never support another team ahead of them, other than the ROI team.

That said, the two associations should merge back into one (probably under the banner of the IFA).

There are accusations of sectarianism by the FAI, however what annoys me is that the IFA in its current state continues to blissfully ignore the division that it's 'national' team creates. How on earth is anyone from a Nationalist background meant to feel any sense of belonging when the stadium is bedecked in Ulster banners and the Union Flag, with GSTQ as the anthem? Not to mention the potential for a few UVF songs?

The attiude seems to be, sure we've two lads who are subs at Celtic, and a handful more who are Catholic, none of whom get booed, we can't do anything more to attract Nationalists.

As Deiseach alluded to earlier and especially  now that the element of choice has been strenghtened/copper fastened  by the CAS ruling do you think that there really is any point in the IFA pushing the boat out any further ? Will they be spitting in the wind as any Natiionalist will always opt for the Republic? Indeed FIFA recognise NI as one of the 4 British Associations .As I see it the division (in football terms) has widened and hardened unfortunately.

Whilst not a precise comparator the Unionist rugby players have respectfully stood for anthems and before flags that they have had no affinity with  in Dublin for 60 years  or so simply to play the game at the highest level. They have had no choice and presumably they have done so because they want to play the game they love at the highest possible level. If I had been in any way  good enough I would have done likewise. I say that this is not precisely comparable as the Irish rugby team represents 2 political jurisdictions and the NI football team just 1.

Only in Dublin is the Irish Antem played and the flag as with the Provincial teams is the IRFU's own flag. At all matches Irelands Call is played as a United Anthem. The Hockey and Cricket Teams have a flag with the four provincial standards on it, although I'm not sure of the anthem. But they are inclusive.

The flags flown in Dublin on match day  are the Irish Tri-Colour and the Ulster flag. There is representation of one political jurisdiction but not the other.That is a  difficulty.  Absurdly Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan get two bites!

I am aware of the IRFU flag which should be the only one flown but as I have  said these are matters which have not been any major  issue to any Unionist players/supporters of the Irish rugby team over the years simply because they refuse to let it interfere with a game they love to watch/play.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 02:34:27 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:26:57 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 01:35:57 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 11:56:54 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 19, 2011, 11:16:05 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 09:21:03 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

I was referring to the booing of Catholic players which I specifically took you up on in repsonse to the matters raised in your initial post.

Ffs sake, I made it clear I thought that it was part of an ongoing situation (it was the continuous present tense) which  would discourage nationalists from playing for NI, I said that given the scale of the booing there were bound to be still many fans attending who had been involved, and went on to say I doubt they had changed that much.

You asked what would lead me to believe that, I presented the above pieces. You read the posts and wrote responses so you clearly know how this has all followed through.

I'll quote you in future so you will have less opportunity to be selective in what you refer to, I had hoped I wouldnt have to.

Of course the ongoing situation does not involve the booing of Catholic players. It always  seems to be added to the list dominated by flags and emblems.

That's one less thing to be discouraged by.

I find it difficult to comprehend that the songs sung inside the ground could be offensive to Nationalists. The IFA have no control over those sung outside the ground.

On balance I would be up for a more regionally distinctive anthem.

Well there in lies the problem.

Where precisely?

Your lack of understanding of the Nationalist psyche and what offends.

Maybe?

Indeed I have said that I find it difficult to comprehend how the songs sung inside the Stadium could offend.I am aware of what is sung,   and  I genuinely hold that view.

Can you enlighten me?

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:48:05 PM
The flags flown in Dublin on match day  are the Irish Tri-Colour and the Ulster flag. There is representation of one political jurisdiction but not the other.That is a  difficulty.  Absurdly Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan get two bites!

I am aware of the IRFU flag which should be the only one flown but as I have  said these are matters which have not been any major  issue to any Unionist players/supporters of the Irish rugby team over the years simply because they refuse to let it interfere with a game they love to watch/play.

I can understand someone being put off by the attitudes of the GAA and the IRFU to flags. I can also understand someone deciding not to allow the attitudes of the GAA and the IRFU to flags to put them off following the sport. I can't, however, understand someone being put off by the attitude of the GAA to flags while deciding not to allow the attitude of the IRFU to flags to put them off following the sport. God forbid that people are happy to ignore one while not ignoring the other because of - gasp! - prejudice

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:48:05 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 02:32:17 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:13:08 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 19, 2011, 01:49:11 PM
I have no real gripe with the NI football team, I like to see them win/be successful etc and would never support another team ahead of them, other than the ROI team.

That said, the two associations should merge back into one (probably under the banner of the IFA).

There are accusations of sectarianism by the FAI, however what annoys me is that the IFA in its current state continues to blissfully ignore the division that it's 'national' team creates. How on earth is anyone from a Nationalist background meant to feel any sense of belonging when the stadium is bedecked in Ulster banners and the Union Flag, with GSTQ as the anthem? Not to mention the potential for a few UVF songs?

The attiude seems to be, sure we've two lads who are subs at Celtic, and a handful more who are Catholic, none of whom get booed, we can't do anything more to attract Nationalists.

As Deiseach alluded to earlier and especially  now that the element of choice has been strenghtened/copper fastened  by the CAS ruling do you think that there really is any point in the IFA pushing the boat out any further ? Will they be spitting in the wind as any Natiionalist will always opt for the Republic? Indeed FIFA recognise NI as one of the 4 British Associations .As I see it the division (in football terms) has widened and hardened unfortunately.

Whilst not a precise comparator the Unionist rugby players have respectfully stood for anthems and before flags that they have had no affinity with  in Dublin for 60 years  or so simply to play the game at the highest level. They have had no choice and presumably they have done so because they want to play the game they love at the highest possible level. If I had been in any way  good enough I would have done likewise. I say that this is not precisely comparable as the Irish rugby team represents 2 political jurisdictions and the NI football team just 1.

Only in Dublin is the Irish Antem played and the flag as with the Provincial teams is the IRFU's own flag. At all matches Irelands Call is played as a United Anthem. The Hockey and Cricket Teams have a flag with the four provincial standards on it, although I'm not sure of the anthem. But they are inclusive.

The flags flown in Dublin on match day  are the Irish Tri-Colour and the Ulster flag. There is representation of one political jurisdiction but not the other.That is a  difficulty.  Absurdly Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan get two bites!

I am aware of the IRFU flag which should be the only one flown but as I have  said these are matters which have not been any major  issue to any Unionist players/supporters of the Irish rugby team over the years simply because they refuse to let it interfere with a game they love to watch/play.

You forget that the six counties do not have a flag. I presume the Ulster Branch which encompasses Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan are represented byn the Ulster Provincial Flag.

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:55:25 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 02:34:27 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:26:57 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 01:35:57 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 11:56:54 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 19, 2011, 11:16:05 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 09:21:03 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

I was referring to the booing of Catholic players which I specifically took you up on in repsonse to the matters raised in your initial post.

Ffs sake, I made it clear I thought that it was part of an ongoing situation (it was the continuous present tense) which  would discourage nationalists from playing for NI, I said that given the scale of the booing there were bound to be still many fans attending who had been involved, and went on to say I doubt they had changed that much.

You asked what would lead me to believe that, I presented the above pieces. You read the posts and wrote responses so you clearly know how this has all followed through.

I'll quote you in future so you will have less opportunity to be selective in what you refer to, I had hoped I wouldnt have to.

Of course the ongoing situation does not involve the booing of Catholic players. It always  seems to be added to the list dominated by flags and emblems.

That's one less thing to be discouraged by.

I find it difficult to comprehend that the songs sung inside the ground could be offensive to Nationalists. The IFA have no control over those sung outside the ground.

On balance I would be up for a more regionally distinctive anthem.

Well there in lies the problem.

Where precisely?

Your lack of understanding of the Nationalist psyche and what offends.

Maybe?

Indeed I have said that I find it difficult to comprehend how the songs sung inside the Stadium could offend.I am aware of what is sung,   and  I genuinely hold that view.

Can you enlighten me?

Rule britania, the queen with the added references to loyalist paramilitaries, need I go on.

Quote from: deiseach on May 19, 2011, 03:12:28 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:48:05 PM
The flags flown in Dublin on match day  are the Irish Tri-Colour and the Ulster flag. There is representation of one political jurisdiction but not the other.That is a  difficulty.  Absurdly Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan get two bites!

I am aware of the IRFU flag which should be the only one flown but as I have  said these are matters which have not been any major  issue to any Unionist players/supporters of the Irish rugby team over the years simply because they refuse to let it interfere with a game they love to watch/play.

I can understand someone being put off by the attitudes of the GAA and the IRFU to flags. I can also understand someone deciding not to allow the attitudes of the GAA and the IRFU to flags to put them off following the sport. I can't, however, understand someone being put off by the attitude of the GAA to flags while deciding not to allow the attitude of the IRFU to flags to put them off following the sport. God forbid that people are happy to ignore one while not ignoring the other because of - gasp! - prejudice

As I see it the average aforementioned Unionist  rugby supporter visiting Dublin on match day has  given respect (yes respect) to the national  anthem of the host city (Dublin) , notwithstanding the fact that  they have no allegiance to the anthem.The thinking being -  the match is being played in the capital city of the  Republic so it is reasonable for them to play their anthem and fly their flag. This was shown up  in the game v Italy in Belfast. However  the IRFU were clumsy and insulting  in dealing with the issue .

However clumsy they have been  the IRFU would however not play the Republic's national anthem or insist on the flying of a Tri-Colour when playing a game in Belfast or anywhere in Northern Ireland.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 03:28:09 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:55:25 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 02:34:27 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:26:57 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 01:35:57 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 11:56:54 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 19, 2011, 11:16:05 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 09:21:03 AM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 18, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
These pieces arent ten years old, and they're only 2 of many

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/13384280.stm
'A leaked email from a Police Service of Northern Ireland officer also spoke of the "unfortunate anti-social/sectarian behaviour of a number of our fans at the Scotland game".'

UTV News - Anger at sectarian songs after NI game
15 Feb 2011 ... The Irish Football Association has condemned the actions of a group of Northern Ireland fans who were captured on film singing sectarian

I was referring to the booing of Catholic players which I specifically took you up on in repsonse to the matters raised in your initial post.

Ffs sake, I made it clear I thought that it was part of an ongoing situation (it was the continuous present tense) which  would discourage nationalists from playing for NI, I said that given the scale of the booing there were bound to be still many fans attending who had been involved, and went on to say I doubt they had changed that much.

You asked what would lead me to believe that, I presented the above pieces. You read the posts and wrote responses so you clearly know how this has all followed through.

I'll quote you in future so you will have less opportunity to be selective in what you refer to, I had hoped I wouldnt have to.

Of course the ongoing situation does not involve the booing of Catholic players. It always  seems to be added to the list dominated by flags and emblems.

That's one less thing to be discouraged by.

I find it difficult to comprehend that the songs sung inside the ground could be offensive to Nationalists. The IFA have no control over those sung outside the ground.

On balance I would be up for a more regionally distinctive anthem.

Well there in lies the problem.

Where precisely?

Your lack of understanding of the Nationalist psyche and what offends.

Maybe?

Indeed I have said that I find it difficult to comprehend how the songs sung inside the Stadium could offend.I am aware of what is sung,   and  I genuinely hold that view.

Can you enlighten me?

Rule britania, the queen with the added references to loyalist paramilitaries, need I go on.

Please do.

I have not heard Rule Britannia sung at Wndsor Park for years.

When referring to songs I had assumed that we were dealing with those excuding the Anthem. I have stated that I would be for a regionally distinctive anthem in any event.

It featured at the Aviva

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 03:35:24 PM

Quote from: deiseach on May 19, 2011, 03:12:28 PM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:48:05 PM
The flags flown in Dublin on match day  are the Irish Tri-Colour and the Ulster flag. There is representation of one political jurisdiction but not the other.That is a  difficulty.  Absurdly Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan get two bites!

I am aware of the IRFU flag which should be the only one flown but as I have  said these are matters which have not been any major  issue to any Unionist players/supporters of the Irish rugby team over the years simply because they refuse to let it interfere with a game they love to watch/play.

I can understand someone being put off by the attitudes of the GAA and the IRFU to flags. I can also understand someone deciding not to allow the attitudes of the GAA and the IRFU to flags to put them off following the sport. I can't, however, understand someone being put off by the attitude of the GAA to flags while deciding not to allow the attitude of the IRFU to flags to put them off following the sport. God forbid that people are happy to ignore one while not ignoring the other because of - gasp! - prejudice

As I see it the average aforementioned Unionist  rugby supporter visiting Dublin on match day has  given respect (yes respect) to the national  anthem of the host city (Dublin) , notwithstanding the fact that  they have no allegiance to the anthem.The thinking being -  the match is being played in the capital city of the  Republic so it is reasonable for them to play their anthem and fly their flag. This was shown up  in the game v Italy in Belfast. However  the IRFU were clumsy and insulting  in dealing with the issue .

However clumsy they have been  the IRFU would however not play the Republic's national anthem or insist on the flying of a Tri-Colour when playing a game in Belfast or anywhere in Northern Ireland.

So if the GAA flew no flag in the Six Counties, everything would be as ay-OK as it is with rugby?

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:13:08 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 19, 2011, 01:49:11 PM
I have no real gripe with the NI football team, I like to see them win/be successful etc and would never support another team ahead of them, other than the ROI team.

That said, the two associations should merge back into one (probably under the banner of the IFA).

There are accusations of sectarianism by the FAI, however what annoys me is that the IFA in its current state continues to blissfully ignore the division that it's 'national' team creates. How on earth is anyone from a Nationalist background meant to feel any sense of belonging when the stadium is bedecked in Ulster banners and the Union Flag, with GSTQ as the anthem? Not to mention the potential for a few UVF songs?

The attiude seems to be, sure we've two lads who are subs at Celtic, and a handful more who are Catholic, none of whom get booed, we can't do anything more to attract Nationalists.

As Deiseach alluded to earlier and especially  now that the element of choice has been strenghtened/copper fastened  by the CAS ruling do you think that there really is any point in the IFA pushing the boat out any further ? Will they be spitting in the wind as any Natiionalist will always opt for the Republic? Indeed FIFA recognise NI as one of the 4 British Associations .As I see it the division (in football terms) has widened and hardened unfortunately.

Whilst not a precise comparator the Unionist rugby players have respectfully stood for anthems and before flags that they have had no affinity with  in Dublin for 60 years  or so simply to play the game at the highest level. They have had no choice and presumably they have done so because they want to play the game they love at the highest possible level. If I had been in any way  good enough I would have done likewise. I say that this is not precisely comparable as the Irish rugby team represents 2 political jurisdictions and the NI football team just 1.

Quite a defeatist 'what's the point' attitude, my opinion as someone who would wish the NI team well is that the IFA has failed to encourage Nationalists right from the start. The rubgy comparison is certainly not precise, Ireland Rugby is now among the best in the world whereas the NI football team are well down the rankings; I'd be pretty confident that if NI were regularly in the top ten FIFA rankings you might see a few more Nationalists wanting to play for them and willing to overlook the "colour" at Windsor Park.

Unfortunately I can't see this being any different in the near future; regardless of the atrocious structures within NI soccer, change seems to be a concept that is not looked upon favourably nor encouraged by the IFA.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 11:28:34 AM
The point I am making is that all those flags, sectarian songs and British Anthems are disrespectful to Nationalist who play for NI. If you can't see that then something is wrong. No confusion with Italy NL as most Dutch fans fly orange and white flags from what I've seen. Compare the NI fans/Association to Ulster Rugby who have worked hard to promote the flying of flags that show support only for the team and not political identity.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions on the "flying of flags" by Ireland rugby fans also.

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:48:05 PM

The flags flown in Dublin on match day  are the Irish Tri-Colour and the Ulster flag. There is representation of one political jurisdiction but not the other.That is a  difficulty.  Absurdly Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan get two bites!

It's downright taking the piss in my opinion. Imagine if the British & Irish Lions were represented by the Union Flag and St Patrick's Flag.

Quote from: MW on May 23, 2011, 12:39:06 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 19, 2011, 11:28:34 AM
The point I am making is that all those flags, sectarian songs and British Anthems are disrespectful to Nationalist who play for NI. If you can't see that then something is wrong. No confusion with Italy NL as most Dutch fans fly orange and white flags from what I've seen. Compare the NI fans/Association to Ulster Rugby who have worked hard to promote the flying of flags that show support only for the team and not political identity.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions on the "flying of flags" by Ireland rugby fans also.

The same, difference here is that the rugby union is taking a lead on the anthem and flag that is not happening in soccer. That said I would accept that the anthem and flag is reflective of majority of their fans. The issue I would take is with the complaints when young nationalist decide to play for the ROI team which they would have grown up supporting.

Quote from: MW on May 23, 2011, 12:43:16 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 19, 2011, 02:48:05 PM

The flags flown in Dublin on match day  are the Irish Tri-Colour and the Ulster flag. There is representation of one political jurisdiction but not the other.That is a  difficulty.  Absurdly Donegal , Monaghan and Cavan get two bites!

It's downright taking the piss in my opinion. Imagine if the British & Irish Lions were represented by the Union Flag and St Patrick's Flag.

Not the same, the Ulster branch which the flag represents is a 9 county organisation. There is no official flag for the 6 counties. The St Patricks cross is a British flag which was invented to represent Ireland (all of it) in the union flag.

It looks pretty similar - tricolour to represent the Republic of Ireland, and (unofficial too of course) province of Ulster flag to represent the 9 county Ulster province feels like little better than a calculated snub, as well as being totally illogical; it would this be pretty similar to have a flag representing the UK (i.e. GB & NI) and one for the island of Ireland. (Would it really be too much for the IRFU to use the Ulster Banner, which represents Northern Ireland in the sporting arena? It was there at the Aviva in February, and it will fly alongside the Tricolour at the Aviva tomorrow night - the sky won't fall in.)

(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/images/2011/0524/1224297633774_1.jpg?ts=1306227642)

Looks like they got a few of our stock to "beef" up their numbers

Quote from: MW on May 23, 2011, 11:04:30 PM
It looks pretty similar - tricolour to represent the Republic of Ireland, and (unofficial too of course) province of Ulster flag to represent the 9 county Ulster province feels like little better than a calculated snub, as well as being totally illogical; it would this be pretty similar to have a flag representing the UK (i.e. GB & NI) and one for the island of Ireland. (Would it really be too much for the IRFU to use the Ulster Banner, which represents Northern Ireland in the sporting arena? It was there at the Aviva in February, and it will fly alongside the Tricolour at the Aviva tomorrow night - the sky won't fall in.)

The Ulster banner has no official status and in fact is seen by Nationalists in its many incarnantions as a symbol of oppression. Flying it as the flag of the NI soccer team is one of the reasons why nationalists are choosing to support and play for the ROI. I think in terms of flags the hockey union has it spot on with the flags of the four provinces.

i see the NI Supporters clubs have got together and wrote a letter in the irish news today, first of all i'm shocked they were able to string a coherent letter together (kudos for that) but secondly how they fail to realise that it is such a cold house for Catholics/nationalists.

they talk about the great strides and fair enough there have been some changes but they don't go far enough, the basterdised ulster flag and GSTQ being played has to go for a start

how many B/Junior/underage internationals are held in solitude or Celtic Park - zero.

Brendan crossan wrote a good article on this in last weeks irish news, they could do worse than go and have a look at it

I was in tears by the time I reached the end of that letter, all that was missing was a lone violin player performing a turgid dirge of a lament ... pathetic  :D

Quote from: red hander on May 24, 2011, 04:52:24 PM
I was in tears by the time I reached the end of that letter, all that was missing was a lone violin player performing a turgid dirge of a lament ... pathetic  :D

ha ha yeah it was shockingly bad, it was like ''bigger boys took our ball away'' ha ha

Quote from: Banana Man on May 24, 2011, 01:12:49 PM
i see the NI Supporters clubs have got together and wrote a letter in the irish news today, first of all i'm shocked they were able to string a coherent letter together (kudos for that) but secondly how they fail to realise that it is such a cold house for Catholics/nationalists.

they talk about the great strides and fair enough there have been some changes but they don't go far enough, the basterdised ulster flag and GSTQ being played has to go for a start

how many B/Junior/underage internationals are held in solitude or Celtic Park - zero.

Brendan crossan wrote a good article on this in last weeks irish news, they could do worse than go and have a look at it

There's irony there, if you know where to look.  ;)

Good to see a few Armagh men there supporting the winning team!

Quote from: Banana Man on May 24, 2011, 04:58:35 PM

Quote from: red hander on May 24, 2011, 04:52:24 PM
I was in tears by the time I reached the end of that letter, all that was missing was a lone violin player performing a turgid dirge of a lament ... pathetic  :D

ha ha yeah it was shockingly bad, it was like ''bigger boys took our ball away'' ha ha

They really took their ball away today ;D

Quote from: Banana Man on May 24, 2011, 01:12:49 PM
i see the NI Supporters clubs have got together and wrote a letter in the irish news today, first of all i'm shocked they were able to string a coherent letter together (kudos for that) but secondly how they fail to realise that it is such a cold house for Catholics/nationalists.

they talk about the great strides and fair enough there have been some changes but they don't go far enough, the basterdised ulster flag and GSTQ being played has to go for a start

how many B/Junior/underage internationals are held in solitude or Celtic Park - zero.

Brendan crossan wrote a good article on this in last weeks irish news, they could do worse than go and have a look at it

Anyone got a copy of said letter?

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2011, 08:36:40 AM

Quote from: Banana Man on May 24, 2011, 01:12:49 PM
i see the NI Supporters clubs have got together and wrote a letter in the irish news today, first of all i'm shocked they were able to string a coherent letter together (kudos for that) but secondly how they fail to realise that it is such a cold house for Catholics/nationalists.

they talk about the great strides and fair enough there have been some changes but they don't go far enough, the basterdised ulster flag and GSTQ being played has to go for a start

how many B/Junior/underage internationals are held in solitude or Celtic Park - zero.

Brendan crossan wrote a good article on this in last weeks irish news, they could do worse than go and have a look at it

Anyone got a copy of said letter?

i don't but if you were depressed it would really cheer you up!

the clown who wrote it was on UTV live last night - i never seen worse in my life, is this really the best they have to trot out???

he also said they were boycotting the NI game - fans boycotting their own team, do they not realise they are shooting themselves in the foot - it's only a matter of time before it grinds to a halt if they keep this behaviour up - so here's hoping  ;D

Quote from: Banana Man on May 25, 2011, 09:09:30 AM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2011, 08:36:40 AM

Quote from: Banana Man on May 24, 2011, 01:12:49 PM
i see the NI Supporters clubs have got together and wrote a letter in the irish news today, first of all i'm shocked they were able to string a coherent letter together (kudos for that) but secondly how they fail to realise that it is such a cold house for Catholics/nationalists.

they talk about the great strides and fair enough there have been some changes but they don't go far enough, the basterdised ulster flag and GSTQ being played has to go for a start

how many B/Junior/underage internationals are held in solitude or Celtic Park - zero.

Brendan crossan wrote a good article on this in last weeks irish news, they could do worse than go and have a look at it

Anyone got a copy of said letter?

i don't but if you were depressed it would really cheer you up!

the clown who wrote it was on UTV live last night - i never seen worse in my life, is this really the best they have to trot out???

he also said they were boycotting the NI game - fans boycotting their own team, do they not realise they are shooting themselves in the foot - it's only a matter of time before it grinds to a halt if they keep this behaviour up - so here's hoping  ;D

their best bet is to amalgamate  - like the rugby.
some ofthe young players from the north would prob make the 'B' maybe 'C' team !

Quote from: Banana Man on May 25, 2011, 09:09:30 AM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2011, 08:36:40 AM

Quote from: Banana Man on May 24, 2011, 01:12:49 PM
i see the NI Supporters clubs have got together and wrote a letter in the Irish news today, first of all i'm shocked they were able to string a coherent letter together (kudos for that) but secondly how they fail to realise that it is such a cold house for Catholics/nationalists.

they talk about the great strides and fair enough there have been some changes but they don't go far enough, the basterdised ulster flag and GSTQ being played has to go for a start

how many B/Junior/underage internationals are held in solitude or Celtic Park - zero.

Brendan crossan wrote a good article on this in last weeks irish news, they could do worse than go and have a look at it

Anyone got a copy of said letter?

i don't but if you were depressed it would really cheer you up!

the clown who wrote it was on UTV live last night - i never seen worse in my life, is this really the best they have to trot out???

he also said they were boycotting the NI game - fans boycotting their own team, do they not realise they are shooting themselves in the foot - it's only a matter of time before it grinds to a halt if they keep this behaviour up - so here's hoping  ;D

Yes, I saw his performance. Absolutely cringeworthy and one of the most disingenuous things I've ever seen. An individual who has been involved in sectarian (i.e anti-Catholic) unrest in north Belfast. It is shameful that he remains the spokesperson for a "cross-community" group like the AoNISC and that those like Evil Genius continue to act as apologists for his role.

Not direct quotes from the Woodvale Layalist, hence no speak marks, but his gist was something like:

- We don't want to deny any young Irishman his right to play for the Republic of Ireland.
- We wish them the best with their football careers.

He clearly doesn't read the comments about such young Irishmen on sites like ourweecountry.co.uk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ZgfdQeBjs


Enuff said

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Cn8bkvgVTCE#at=150

Not sure if this has been posted before, McGinn says ' im a ROI fan and good to play against them'

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2011, 08:36:40 AM

Quote from: Banana Man on May 24, 2011, 01:12:49 PM
i see the NI Supporters clubs have got together and wrote a letter in the irish news today, first of all i'm shocked they were able to string a coherent letter together (kudos for that) but secondly how they fail to realise that it is such a cold house for Catholics/nationalists.

they talk about the great strides and fair enough there have been some changes but they don't go far enough, the basterdised ulster flag and GSTQ being played has to go for a start

how many B/Junior/underage internationals are held in solitude or Celtic Park - zero.

Brendan crossan wrote a good article on this in last weeks irish news, they could do worse than go and have a look at it

Anyone got a copy of said letter?

Is this it?

Tiocfaidh ár lá

The Carling Cup of Nations (or Celtic Cup) has brought a number of issues relating to the Northern Ireland team, the IFA and the IFA's relationship with the FAI to the fore. While the recent boycott of the tournament by Northern Ireland fans, over their treatment by the IFA, FAI and Irish police, has attracted a good deal of publicity, it should be noted that an informal pre-existing boycott was already in place, with many supporters, including some who have followed the team to South America, the United States, the Caribbean and the farthest corners of Europe, refusing to make the short trip to Dublin to watch our team. The primary reason for this boycott is the increasing selection of Northern Ireland born or capped players by the FAI, despite their already representing Northern Ireland at all levels up to, and now including, full international.

The time has come for the IFA to make a stand against this practice; if it continues the very existence of the association and the international team is endangered. We recognise that this is not a situation of the IFA's making, that FIFA's ruling on player eligibility was challenged by the association, and that strenuous efforts have been made by the IFA, as part of its "Football For All" scheme, to ensure that football in Northern Ireland remains cross-community and teams at all levels are selected on merit alone.

FIFA's ruling has placed our country's team at a disadvantage faced by no other, namely, every single player eligible to play for us can also be selected by the FAI. The FAI's shameless exploitation of this rule to the detriment of Northern Ireland teams, and the public statements of its officials vowing to continue and expand this practice, makes cordial relations between the two associations impossible. Our objection is based on a matter of principle, that the selection of players who have played for Northern Ireland at every level - full international included – by the FAI is unethical, opportunistic and, by accident or design, sectarian, and must cease.

While we object to the precedent that the FIFA ruling, and subsequent CAS judgement, have established, we must stress that we accept that some players from Northern Ireland will choose to represent the Republic of Ireland team. This is, of course, regrettable, but we absolutely and unequivocally respect their choice. To those players considering switching allegiance, however, we say this: please do not accept a call-up from the IFA unless it is your intention to play for Northern Ireland. Your actions let down fans who give you unstinting support, waste the scarce resources of the IFA and, worst of all, deny a cap to someone who genuinely wanted it and would have been proud to accept it. Such expedient behaviour in denying another player the chance to win a cap, the highest honour in international football, is utterly unethical and reflects poorly on those who do it.

As longstanding supporters of the Northern Ireland team we urge the IFA to act upon the following proposal: it must secure a public commitment from the FAI, or a joint statement from both associations to the same effect, that it will no longer select players who have represented Northern Ireland at U19 level and above, regardless of FIFA's rules and regardless of whether or not a senior cap was won in a friendly international. This amounts to, in essence, the reintroduction of the gentleman's agreement which existed for over fifty years and worked to the mutual benefit of both associations.

If the FAI is prepared to make this commitment, the IFA must, without question, reciprocate, and not select players who have previously represented the Republic of Ireland, even if they were born in Northern Ireland; if the FAI refuses and continues to behave in its current unscrupulous and unprincipled way, behaviour which threatens the continued existence of the IFA and Northern Ireland team, then we demand that all co-operation between the two associations at all levels cease.

The forthcoming fixture between the two countries is an ideal opportunity for the associations to bring this matter to an amicable conclusion and, in the name of continued cordial relations, to publicly announce that a binding agreement on player selection has been reached. Such an agreement is in the interests of all concerned as it would strengthen and equalise the relationship between the FAI and IFA and end distractive speculation surrounding players.

If the IFA refuses to pursue this course of action, then it will have declared itself unfit to run football in Northern Ireland. In this event, its senior administrators must resign and be replaced by people who will serve the national team's best interests.

To our team which will take the field in Dublin without our usual vocal support, we are deeply sorry that we cannot be in attendance, but be assured that we are with you in spirit: Play with pride. Play with passion. Play for the shirt.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2011, 12:15:20 PM

Quote from: Banana Man on May 25, 2011, 09:09:30 AM

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2011, 08:36:40 AM

Quote from: Banana Man on May 24, 2011, 01:12:49 PM
i see the NI Supporters clubs have got together and wrote a letter in the Irish news today, first of all i'm shocked they were able to string a coherent letter together (kudos for that) but secondly how they fail to realise that it is such a cold house for Catholics/nationalists.

they talk about the great strides and fair enough there have been some changes but they don't go far enough, the basterdised ulster flag and GSTQ being played has to go for a start

how many B/Junior/underage internationals are held in solitude or Celtic Park - zero.

Brendan crossan wrote a good article on this in last weeks irish news, they could do worse than go and have a look at it

Anyone got a copy of said letter?

i don't but if you were depressed it would really cheer you up!

the clown who wrote it was on UTV live last night - i never seen worse in my life, is this really the best they have to trot out???

he also said they were boycotting the NI game - fans boycotting their own team, do they not realise they are shooting themselves in the foot - it's only a matter of time before it grinds to a halt if they keep this behaviour up - so here's hoping  ;D

Yes, I saw his performance. Absolutely cringeworthy and one of the most disingenuous things I've ever seen. An individual who has been involved in sectarian (i.e anti-Catholic) unrest in north Belfast. It is shameful that he remains the spokesperson for a "cross-community" group like the AoNISC and that those like Evil Genius continue to act as apologists for his role.

Not direct quotes from the Woodvale Layalist, hence no speak marks, but his gist was something like:

- We don't want to deny any young Irishman his right to play for the Republic of Ireland.
- We wish them the best with their football careers.

He clearly doesn't read the comments about such young Irishmen on sites like ourweecountry.co.uk.

I thought he did ok but he wasn't really asked the hard questions about flags emblems and chanting.

I thought there were a few annoying things across both news channels yest. esp utv, who continullly referred to the republic 'player poaching'. This isnt happenign, players are exercising their right to play for their country. The beeb also said there was 'nothign the ifa could do about it'  - beg to differ, but its probably too much like genuine work at anti sectarianism for them.

I actually thought the ni fans tried to pull off quite a smart move. If they'd all travelled down, I think its highly likely a fair number would have showed themselves up. Only way to avoid this was to have noone go, as its pretty difficult to seperate an average NI fan from a bigot.

Also, from about two weeks ago, it was on the news that IFA were only giving tickets to fans travelling with them, and the price caused uproar. This is what the boycott was about, yet the IFA then tried to say it was becuase of 'player poaching', which let them off the hook, while one NI fan who was asked was at least honest enough to say anyone he'd been talkng to wasnt heading becuase there was a poor team out and they were going to get hammered.

For a crowd who claim they don't do politics and who want "soccer for all" -
why do they use the UK State anthem as their anthem (it is only the National anthem of 55% of the 6 Cos population) ? -
why did the few IFA fans who were in Lansdowne Road last night have two of the largest Union Jacks prominently displayed behind them.? If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?

"No Fenians wanted here"  is the message sent out loud and clear.

Well EG/MW ?
Exempting Nifan from this  ;)

Anyone know a good forum where NI fans post? I just want to hear a genuine good reason why an All-Ireland team is not the best way forward.

I had to laugh last night. 5-0 down and the NI fans do what they do best. Sing the sash! God love them.

Quote from: ck on May 25, 2011, 01:50:43 PM
Anyone know a good forum where NI fans post? I just want to hear a genuine good reason why an All-Ireland team is not the best way forward.

Might not be the best idea. Pretty sure you'd be banned within minutes for even raising the issue, and that would be getting off lightly. Aside from the threats, a couple of years ago one posters details were outed on a particular NI fan forum by none other than one of it's administrators. Best leave them to it.

Quote from: Mentalman on May 25, 2011, 01:56:34 PM

Quote from: ck on May 25, 2011, 01:50:43 PM
Anyone know a good forum where NI fans post? I just want to hear a genuine good reason why an All-Ireland team is not the best way forward.

Might not be the best idea. Pretty sure you'd be banned within minutes for even raising the issue, and that would be getting off lightly. Aside from the threats, a couple of years ago one posters details were outed on a particular NI fan forum by none other than one of it's administrators. Best leave them to it.

mmm fair enough. Debate isnt something the Norn Iron fans do well. They must feel threatened.

Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2011, 01:47:31 PM
For a crowd who claim they don't do politics and who want "soccer for all" -
why do they use the UK State anthem as their anthem (it is only the National anthem of 55% of the 6 Cos population) ? -
why did the few IFA fans who were in Lansdowne Road last night have two of the largest Union Jacks prominently displayed behind them.? If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?

"No Fenians wanted here"  is the message sent out loud and clear.

Well EG/MW ?
Exempting Nifan from this  ;)

There was also an Orange Order flag clearly being waved by their 'fans', and outside the ground after the game they were singing the Sash... and this was supposed to be an IFA-vetted and controlled operation.  A lot of them were interviewed before pulling out of Belfast and they were all whining about how they'd been tarred with the same brush as those scum who were caught on camera singing the Billy Boys at the Scotland match ... and that big pohill McAllister writes a pathetic letter to the Irish News claiming the support is non-sectarian  ::)

Quote from: ck on May 25, 2011, 02:39:06 PM

Quote from: Mentalman on May 25, 2011, 01:56:34 PM

Quote from: ck on May 25, 2011, 01:50:43 PM
Anyone know a good forum where NI fans post? I just want to hear a genuine good reason why an All-Ireland team is not the best way forward.

Might not be the best idea. Pretty sure you'd be banned within minutes for even raising the issue, and that would be getting off lightly. Aside from the threats, a couple of years ago one posters details were outed on a particular NI fan forum by none other than one of it's administrators. Best leave them to it.

mmm fair enough. Debate isnt something the Norn Iron fans do well. They must feel threatened.

It's been hashed and rehashed here lots of times but a few of the NI lads that frequent this forum are well able to debate it in fairness, NIFAN or Evil Genius et al.

What I would like is:

One team, neutral flag, neutral anthem, FAI absorbed into the IFA. Matches to alternate between Belfast and Dublin. I'd imagine the people most opposed to this are the undesirable element we want rid of anyway, win win. Out of curiousity, would there be any support for one team among OWC supporters?

"its pretty difficult to seperate an average NI fan from a bigot".

A bit of a sweeping generalisation me thinks.  Difficult to get rid of all the assholes but the appropriate steps have been and continue to be taken.

The point could also be made that the ROI support was hardly beyond criticism last night.  The booing of the anthem and Steve Davis and Robert Garrett who play for Rangers and Linfield respectively, springs to mind - Wonder why they got singled out for special attention?  In addition, there was a fair few in the ROI support wearing Celtic tops.  Don't give a shit about this myself, but had the fans in the NI end been wearing Rangers tops you would never have heard the end of it.

As for the boycott which another poster made reference to, he is correct in saying that the boycott did initially relate to the travel arrangements.  Shortly after those plans were made public, however, another defection (Devine of Preston) was announced.  Given that young Ferguson also seems likely to make the switch, the boycott increasingly became related to the divisive and frankly sectarian player poaching issue.  Before the choruses of complaints to this last statement come flooding in, does anyone genuinely think that no unofficial approaches to any of these young players have ever been made? 

As for the calls for one team, alternate matches in Belfast / Dublin etc, I am afraid that the actions of the FAI mean that this is never likely to receive any real support.  In any case, do you think that an organisation which churlishly flew the wrong flag during last night's match has any interest in respecting and reaching out to all traditions on the island?

Wrong flag? Sure the Are We A Country crowd can't decide themselves between that completely unofficial rag, the orange order banner or the butcher's apron, so how do you expect some wee fella at the Aviva to cope?

Wrong flag? Sure the Are We A Country crowd can't decide themselves between that completely unofficial rag, the orange order banner or the butcher's apron, so how do you expect some wee fella at the Aviva to cope?


Do you honestly believe it was a genuine mistake or is this you trying to be funny?

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 25, 2011, 05:19:14 PM
What I would like is:

One team, neutral flag, neutral anthem, FAI absorbed into the IFA. Matches to alternate between Belfast and Dublin. I'd imagine the people most opposed to this are the undesirable element we want rid of anyway, win win. Out of curiousity, would there be any support for one team among OWC supporters?

We have a state of the art modern stadium in Dublin,why would we want to go to a cow shed in Belfast to play games?

Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2011, 01:47:31 PM
For a crowd who claim they don't do politics and who want "soccer for all" -
why do they use the UK State anthem as their anthem (it is only the National anthem of 55% of the 6 Cos population) ? -

I think it's used because it's always been used - Scotland and Wales used to use it too. (It is after all "the national anthem" across the UK) I'd be more than happy to see it changed for NI matches, as would a significant section of the NI support. I've been arguing this case for many years now. I think the IFA wants to shy away from the difficult decision on this.

Quote
why did the few IFA fans who were in Lansdowne Road last night have two of the largest Union Jacks prominently displayed behind them.? If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?

"No Fenians wanted here"  is the message sent out loud and clear.

Well EG/MW ?
Exempting Nifan from this  ;)

Firstly, and sorry for taking this first but this is a bugbear of mine, "IFA fans" is a silly turn of phrase. They're not fans of the IFA, in fact they most likely are strong critics of the IFA. They're Northern Ireland fans.

Secondly, again, I'd prefer it if people didn't bring Union Flags. I think they do so not because they're making any sort of "no Fenians" statement but because for some reason which I don't really fathom they think they need to show their British identity. It's only a minority that does this. And hard to press down on, since it's actually the official flag of NI.

Thirdly, saying "If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?" is a bit disingenuous - it's international football. There will always be national flags, even if (as in Italy, the Netherlands, or Germany), they don't coincide with the colour of the team's kit. You're not really making an argument against national flags in general at international football, are you?

Fourthly, a question to you - what do you make of the sizeable number of Tricolours flown by a significant proportion of the crowd at Ireland rugby games?

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 25, 2011, 05:19:14 PM
What I would like is:

One team, neutral flag, neutral anthem, FAI absorbed into the IFA. Matches to alternate between Belfast and Dublin. I'd imagine the people most opposed to this are the undesirable element we want rid of anyway, win win. Out of curiousity, would there be any support for one team among OWC supporters?

It would be almost nil.

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 08:24:04 PM
Wrong flag? Sure the Are We A Country crowd can't decide themselves between that completely unofficial rag, the orange order banner or the butcher's apron, so how do you expect some wee fella at the Aviva to cope?


Do you honestly believe it was a genuine mistake or is this you trying to be funny?

didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Quote from: red hander on May 25, 2011, 04:54:44 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2011, 01:47:31 PM
For a crowd who claim they don't do politics and who want "soccer for all" -
why do they use the UK State anthem as their anthem (it is only the National anthem of 55% of the 6 Cos population) ? -
why did the few IFA fans who were in Lansdowne Road last night have two of the largest Union Jacks prominently displayed behind them.? If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?

"No Fenians wanted here"  is the message sent out loud and clear.

Well EG/MW ?
Exempting Nifan from this  ;)

There was also an Orange Order flag clearly being waved by their 'fans', and outside the ground after the game they were singing the Sash... and this was supposed to be an IFA-vetted and controlled operation.  A lot of them were interviewed before pulling out of Belfast and they were all whining about how they'd been tarred with the same brush as those scum who were caught on camera singing the Billy Boys at the Scotland match ... and that big pohill McAllister writes a pathetic letter to the Irish News claiming the support is non-sectarian  ::)

Of course you're going to be even-handed and comment on a minority among the ROI support that variously...

- booed God Save the Queen
- booed Steve Davis
- sang Fields of Athenry with the 'Sinn Fein' and 'IRA' add-ins

Or indeed the one chap who brought along a Vatican City flag. (all attested to by some rather pissed off fans on the ROI supporter boards)

I looks forward to reading your comments. Because I'm sure you aren't just a hypocrite gagging to have a go at themmuns, hmm?

Quote from: laoislad on May 25, 2011, 08:43:33 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 25, 2011, 05:19:14 PM
What I would like is:

One team, neutral flag, neutral anthem, FAI absorbed into the IFA. Matches to alternate between Belfast and Dublin. I'd imagine the people most opposed to this are the undesirable element we want rid of anyway, win win. Out of curiousity, would there be any support for one team among OWC supporters?

We have a state of the art modern stadium in Dublin,why would we want to go to a cow shed in Belfast to play games?

Toilet bowl with no atmosphere? You do know what alternate means?

Quote from: MW on May 25, 2011, 09:11:48 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 25, 2011, 05:19:14 PM
What I would like is:

One team, neutral flag, neutral anthem, FAI absorbed into the IFA. Matches to alternate between Belfast and Dublin. I'd imagine the people most opposed to this are the undesirable element we want rid of anyway, win win. Out of curiousity, would there be any support for one team among OWC supporters?

It would be almost nil.

Although a pipe dream it's still a pity that there is such little support for it. If implemented properly it could work wonders; rugby being a good example.

didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 08:24:04 PM
Wrong flag? Sure the Are We A Country crowd can't decide themselves between that completely unofficial rag, the orange order banner or the butcher's apron, so how do you expect some wee fella at the Aviva to cope?


Do you honestly believe it was a genuine mistake or is this you trying to be funny?

Take a wild guess

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 09:30:23 PM
didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

poor play by fai
thought they would be bigger than 

After some complaint, they did miraculously produce the NI flag and switch it for the 9-county Ulster flag inside and outside the ground in time for kick off.

'Cute hoors', is that the expression?

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 25, 2011, 09:24:25 PM
Although a pipe dream it's still a pity that there is such little support for it. If implemented properly it could work wonders; rugby being a good example.

It wouldn't work wonders for me, given that I see Northern Ireland as my country, and my primary identity as Northern Irish.

I don't think rugby is a particularly good example - as has been demonstrated by southern nationalist chauvinism in the IRFU over flags and anthems.

Quote from: MW on May 23, 2011, 11:04:30 PM
It looks pretty similar - tricolour to represent the Republic of Ireland, and (unofficial too of course) province of Ulster flag to represent the 9 county Ulster province feels like little better than a calculated snub, as well as being totally illogical; it would this be pretty similar to have a flag representing the UK (i.e. GB & NI) and one for the island of Ireland. (Would it really be too much for the IRFU to use the Ulster Banner, which represents Northern Ireland in the sporting arena? It was there at the Aviva in February, and it will fly alongside the Tricolour at the Aviva tomorrow night - the sky won't fall in.)

More fool me.

It just couldn't be that straightforward... :-\

The owc have to suffer more than a few heart attack indignant moments, like the national anthem mix up in the last away game  ;D

Serious craic to be had on the our wee country Facebook page. They were up in arms because the fai flew the true flag of ulster outside the aviva. It was eventually changed to the bastardised version.

Love the way it mentions on the page that bigotry on the page will not be tolerated. That's nice, loyalists spew venom upon the topics unchallenged yet when a fenion comes along they are classed as trolls and have all posts deleted.

Our* wee country

*No taigs allowed

Was watching the news and they singled out the booing of the Anthem and every time Davis touched the ball.

Typical news of course

Quote from: Dún Dún on May 25, 2011, 09:59:44 PM
Serious craic to be had on the our wee country Facebook page. They were up in arms because the fai flew the true flag of ulster outside the aviva. It was eventually changed to the bastardised version.

Love the way it mentions on the page that bigotry on the page will not be tolerated. That's nice, loyalists spew venom upon the topics unchallenged yet when a fenion comes along they are classed as trolls and have all posts deleted.

Our* wee country

*No taigs allowed

We have a live one :D

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2011, 10:00:43 PM
Was watching the news and they singled out the booing of the Anthem and every time Davis touched the ball.

Typical news of course

No place for that whatsoever. Davis would stroll on to the free state team.

Quote from: MW on May 25, 2011, 09:44:36 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 25, 2011, 09:24:25 PM
Although a pipe dream it's still a pity that there is such little support for it. If implemented properly it could work wonders; rugby being a good example.

It wouldn't work wonders for me, given that I see Northern Ireland as my country, and my primary identity as Northern Irish.

I don't think rugby is a particularly good example - as has been demonstrated by southern nationalist chauvinism in the IRFU over flags and anthems.

Yet fans in their droves still come down from the North to support them. Obviously anthems/flags need looked at though in saying that the rugby crowd are a lot more tolerant than the soccer lot.

Would the opportunity to compete better at international level not be an incentive? Players to have better access to coaching, training, facilities etc etc.
Do you not think it important a more inclusive team be formed, rather than an NI team followed almost solely by Unionists and a ROI team followed by the rest? Without compromising your Northern Irishness?

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 25, 2011, 11:18:12 PM

Quote from: MW on May 25, 2011, 09:44:36 PM

Quote from: fitzroyalty on May 25, 2011, 09:24:25 PM
Although a pipe dream it's still a pity that there is such little support for it. If implemented properly it could work wonders; rugby being a good example.

It wouldn't work wonders for me, given that I see Northern Ireland as my country, and my primary identity as Northern Irish.

I don't think rugby is a particularly good example - as has been demonstrated by southern nationalist chauvinism in the IRFU over flags and anthems.

Yet fans in their droves still come down from the North to support them. Obviously anthems/flags need looked at though in saying that the rugby crowd are a lot more tolerant than the soccer lot.

Hmm. Well as it currently stands, it's people from a unionist background tolerating the flag and anthem shenanigans at rugby matches, and some people from a nationalist background saying that flag and anthem are so much that they couldn't tolerate supporting NI. So you could cut it up a number of different ways according to your preference. But consider this - there's a reasonably considerable crossover between the NI football support and the Ulster/Ireland rugby support. Few are particularly enamoured with the idea of seeing their team abolished.

Quote
Would the opportunity to compete better at international level not be an incentive? Players to have better access to coaching, training, facilities etc etc.

"We" would be even better off in an all-UK team then!

Quote
Do you not think it important a more inclusive team be formed, rather than an NI team followed almost solely by Unionists and a ROI team followed by the rest? Without compromising your Northern Irishness?

I know you mean well here but that line of argument really is infuriating. What you're essentially saying is that nationalists (or some/many nationalists at any rate), unlike non-nationalists, won't support the NI team, and instead choose to support the ROI team – primarily because they believe in an all-Ireland national entity and identity. So the response to that should be to do away with the NI team, and form an all-Ireland team in line with their political/national preferences? In the name of "inclusiveness"??
And by the way, your terminology "than an NI team followed almost solely by Unionists and a ROI team followed by the rest" is completely arse about face. It's nationalists (or a section thereof) who despite coming from NI, choose to follow the ROI (and I recognize the reasons for doing so) – "the rest", not just Unionists, support Northern Ireland, because, well, they're from Northern Ireland. I know plenty of NI fans that don't give a toss about politics.
And how would you suggest abolishing the NI team and setting up an all-Ireland team could be done "without compromising [my] Northern Irishness" anyway?

QuoteHmm. Well as it currently stands, it's people from a unionist background tolerating the flag and anthem shenanigans at rugby matches,

I was referring to Unionists, should have made that clearer.

Quoteand some people from a nationalist background saying that flag and anthem are so much that they couldn't tolerate supporting NI.

I think in many instances it goes beyond a flag and anthem.

QuoteSo you could cut it up a number of different ways according to your preference. But consider this - there's a reasonably considerable crossover between the NI football support and the Ulster/Ireland rugby support. Few are particularly enamoured with the idea of seeing their team abolished.

The team wouldn't be abolished though, it would be amalgamated. There'd be no ROI and no NI.

Quote"We" would be even better off in an all-UK team then!

Ok I think the mutual dislike for England rules that one out!

QuoteI know you mean well here but that line of argument really is infuriating. What you're essentially saying is that nationalists (or some/many nationalists at any rate), unlike non-nationalists, won't support the NI team, and instead choose to support the ROI team – primarily because they believe in an all-Ireland national entity and identity.

I can understand that but I'm really just trying to probe for an OWC perspective. I think there is merit in at least exploring the possibility. At least look at the huge positives first rather than the drawbacks (although ultimately drawbacks such as political preferences etc will win)

QuoteSo the response to that should be to do away with the NI team, and form an all-Ireland team in line with their political/national preferences? In the name of "inclusiveness"??

What we currently have is two different teams. You support one depending on what foot you kick with (pardon the pun). As you go on to say below:

QuoteAnd by the way, your terminology "than an NI team followed almost solely by Unionists and a ROI team followed by the rest" is completely arse about face. It's nationalists (or a section thereof) who despite coming from NI, choose to follow the ROI (and I recognize the reasons for doing so) – "the rest", not just Unionists, support Northern Ireland, because, well, they're from Northern Ireland. I know plenty of NI fans that don't give a toss about politics.

What we have is people from the North supporting a team ahead of fellas that may only live up the road from them. We both know the reasons why but to me it's a bit stupid.

QuoteAnd how would you suggest abolishing the NI team and setting up an all-Ireland team could be done "without compromising [my] Northern Irishness" anyway?

This is the hard bit. The two obvious ones being anthem and flag. Maybe a new crest depicting Unionist symbols, red hand, poppy along with a harp, crown, shamrock? The anthem recognising all people on the island, maybe a verse on the Somme, WWI and II. Matches played in Windsor as well as Aviva. FAI dissolved and new association to remain as IFA.

This is the hard bit. The two obvious ones being anthem and flag. Maybe a new crest depicting Unionist symbols, red hand, poppy along with a harp, crown, shamrock? The anthem recognising all people on the island, maybe a verse on the Somme, WWI and II. Matches played in Windsor as well as Aviva. FAI dissolved and new association to remain as IFA. 

At the risk of repeating myself, the actions of the FAI the other night are not those of a forward thinking organisation which is aiming to respect all traditions on the island.  Whilst your ideas are laudable, although that does not mean I am in favour, they are also completely pie in the sky.  In addition, NI fans now, and with some justification, have nothing but contempt for the FAI.

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 08:00:53 PM
As for the boycott which another poster made reference to, he is correct in saying that the boycott did initially relate to the travel arrangements.  Shortly after those plans were made public, however, another defection (Devine of Preston) was announced.  Given that young Ferguson also seems likely to make the switch, the boycott increasingly became related to the divisive and frankly sectarian player poaching issue. 

The boycott was about the travel arrangements, to highlight to the IFA how the fans thought they wee being ill treated. Thats how it was announced. Thats what it was about. IN reality, the 'boycott' was just loyal OWC fans not bothering their hole to go cos they knew they were gonna get hammered, as one fan admitted.

Btw, I hear 54 tickets have been sold for the Wales game, I didnt know they'd been at the 'poaching' as well??

The boycott was about the travel arrangements, to highlight to the IFA how the fans thought they wee being ill treated. Thats how it was announced. Thats what it was about. IN reality, the 'boycott' was just loyal OWC fans not bothering their hole to go cos they knew they were gonna get hammered, as one fan admitted.

Btw, I hear 54 tickets have been sold for the Wales game, I didnt know they'd been at the 'poaching' as well??

As I originally stated the boycott did relate to travel arrangements.  Incereasingly, however, it also related to the ongoing poaching issue.  I'm afraid you will have to believe me that this is the case.  If you look at the situation objectively, you could see that what I have say is plausible.

Given that we have travelled with many thousands of fans in recent years to far flung parts of Europe, do you really think that if there was not an issue with the FAI that we would not take more than 54 fans 100 miles down the road?

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 07:43:18 AM

At the risk of repeating myself, the actions of the FAI the other night are not those of a forward thinking organisation which is aiming to respect all traditions on the island.  Whilst your ideas are laudable, although that does not mean I am in favour, they are also completely pie in the sky.  In addition, NI fans now, and with some justification, have nothing but contempt for the FAI.

In addition the actions/inaction of the IRFU in relation to the flags/anthems protocol for the  all island rugby team also  does very little to endear the idea of an all island football team to any NI supporters of a Unionist hue. Bear in mind that there are a large number of NI supporters who would also follow the Ulster and Ireland rugby team.

Both the IRFU and FAI have put the creation of a an all island football back years IMO.

Quote from: MW on May 25, 2011, 09:11:11 PM
.

Secondly, again, I'd prefer it if people didn't bring Union Flags. I think they do so not because they're making any sort of "no Fenians" statement but because for some reason which I don't really fathom they think they need to show their British identity. It's only a minority that does this. And hard to press down on, since it's actually the official flag of NI.

Thirdly, saying "If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?" is a bit disingenuous - it's international football. There will always be national flags, even if (as in Italy, the Netherlands, or Germany), they don't coincide with the colour of the team's kit. You're not really making an argument against national flags in general at international football, are you?

Fourthly, a question to you - what do you make of the sizeable number of Tricolours flown by a significant proportion of the crowd at Ireland rugby games?
[/quote]
Rugby issue = "whataboutery". The IRFU with their Ireland's call and Ulster flag make some effort to address the 2 political jurisdictions issue.( If a lot of people see the All Ireland symbol of the Tricolour ( 26 Cos State flag ,National flag of 45% of the 6 Cos population) as suitable for waving at rugby matches involving the All Ireland team that's their business. The UK State flag isn't a unique flag representing the 6Co area.)

The IFA make no effort to address the fact of 45% non British population in their area.
While they can't be responsible for the flags their team's followers bring to games they should surely be inclusive by dropping the UK Anthem and just fly the IFA crest flag. It might lead to less "defections" to the FAI too  ;)
45 % of the populations of Italy,Holland,Germany are not seeking Union with adjoining States or look upon other flags as their National Flag. Their National flags irepresents the same area as their Soccer Association.

Quote from: MW on May 25, 2011, 09:11:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2011, 01:47:31 PM
For a crowd who claim they don't do politics and who want "soccer for all" -
why do they use the UK State anthem as their anthem (it is only the National anthem of 55% of the 6 Cos population) ? -

I think it's used because it's always been used - Scotland and Wales used to use it too. (It is after all "the national anthem" across the UK) I'd be more than happy to see it changed for NI matches, as would a significant section of the NI support. I've been arguing this case for many years now. I think the IFA wants to shy away from the difficult decision on this.

Quote
why did the few IFA fans who were in Lansdowne Road last night have two of the largest Union Jacks prominently displayed behind them.? If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?

"No Fenians wanted here"  is the message sent out loud and clear.

Well EG/MW ?
Exempting Nifan from this  ;)

Firstly, and sorry for taking this first but this is a bugbear of mine, "IFA fans" is a silly turn of phrase. They're not fans of the IFA, in fact they most likely are strong critics of the IFA. They're Northern Ireland fans.

Secondly, again, I'd prefer it if people didn't bring Union Flags. I think they do so not because they're making any sort of "no Fenians" statement but because for some reason which I don't really fathom they think they need to show their British identity. It's only a minority that does this. And hard to press down on, since it's actually the official flag of NI.

Thirdly, saying "If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?" is a bit disingenuous - it's international football. There will always be national flags, even if (as in Italy, the Netherlands, or Germany), they don't coincide with the colour of the team's kit. You're not really making an argument against national flags in general at international football, are you?

Fourthly, a question to you - what do you make of the sizeable number of Tricolours flown by a significant proportion of the crowd at Ireland rugby games?

Oh really ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiWP5Z6GTgY&feature=BFa&list=PL7340235AF2B8CC33&index=16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1ONnyiPqw

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 25, 2011, 10:14:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2011, 10:00:43 PM
Was watching the news and they singled out the booing of the Anthem and every time Davis touched the ball.
Typical news of course

No place for that whatsoever. Davis would stroll on to the free state team.

squad maybe, not team ! imo

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 09:30:23 PM
didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

Not so that flag is always there because of the Rugby. They displayed quite clearly the unofficial Ulster flag for the anthems. But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team and Unionists will never stop flying the union flag or singing the sash.

Quote from: AQMP on May 26, 2011, 09:45:34 AM

Quote from: MW on May 25, 2011, 09:11:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2011, 01:47:31 PM
For a crowd who claim they don't do politics and who want "soccer for all" -
why do they use the UK State anthem as their anthem (it is only the National anthem of 55% of the 6 Cos population) ? -

I think it's used because it's always been used - Scotland and Wales used to use it too. (It is after all "the national anthem" across the UK) I'd be more than happy to see it changed for NI matches, as would a significant section of the NI support. I've been arguing this case for many years now. I think the IFA wants to shy away from the difficult decision on this.

Quote
why did the few IFA fans who were in Lansdowne Road last night have two of the largest Union Jacks prominently displayed behind them.? If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?

"No Fenians wanted here"  is the message sent out loud and clear.

Well EG/MW ?
Exempting Nifan from this  ;)

Firstly, and sorry for taking this first but this is a bugbear of mine, "IFA fans" is a silly turn of phrase. They're not fans of the IFA, in fact they most likely are strong critics of the IFA. They're Northern Ireland fans.

Secondly, again, I'd prefer it if people didn't bring Union Flags. I think they do so not because they're making any sort of "no Fenians" statement but because for some reason which I don't really fathom they think they need to show their British identity. It's only a minority that does this. And hard to press down on, since it's actually the official flag of NI.

Thirdly, saying "If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?" is a bit disingenuous - it's international football. There will always be national flags, even if (as in Italy, the Netherlands, or Germany), they don't coincide with the colour of the team's kit. You're not really making an argument against national flags in general at international football, are you?

Fourthly, a question to you - what do you make of the sizeable number of Tricolours flown by a significant proportion of the crowd at Ireland rugby games?

Oh really ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiWP5Z6GTgY&feature=BFa&list=PL7340235AF2B8CC33&index=16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1ONnyiPqw

Christ that Flower of Scotland hits the spot.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 09:52:54 AM

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 09:30:23 PM
didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

Not so that flag is always there because of the Rugby. They displayed quite clearly the unofficial Ulster flag for the anthems. But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team and Unionists will never stop flying the union flag or singing the sash.

There will always be trouble so long as they are shitting in our shoes and we are pissing in their Bovril!

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 09:52:54 AM

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 09:30:23 PM
didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team

If that is the negative  position is there any point in continuing any form of debate then?

Quote from: Olaf on May 26, 2011, 10:04:33 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 09:52:54 AM

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 09:30:23 PM
didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team

If that is the negative  position is there any point in continuing any form of debate then?

Probably not. It would appear that NI fans or IFA Fans if you prefer will not countenance a combined team. Nationalist will not support "The Province" or OWC.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 10:07:47 AM

Quote from: Olaf on May 26, 2011, 10:04:33 AM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 09:52:54 AM

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 09:30:23 PM
didnt watch the games --which ni flag was flown

Yellow Ulster nine county fleg

But lets be clear here. Nationalists will never ever support a six county soccer team

If that is the negative  position is there any point in continuing any form of debate then?

Probably not. It would appear that NI fans or IFA Fans if you prefer will not countenance a combined team. Nationalist will not support "The Province" or OWC.

.
.........or Northern Ireland

I can understand why the ni fans are saying the various htings.
Taking away the political backdrop and aspects, this is a group of people who are passionate about heir soccer team.
Its a bit like the wimbledon of old, where they ended up being sold and moving on - but the fans couldnt let go of their side and started up a new team to take their place.

I can see the future ni team being amalgamated with the Ireland side and the fai/ifa joining to make an AIF or something like that.
the two associations wont want to let go of their cushy roles either, so both fans and boards will be pushing for it.
I cna also see the ni fans creating a new club to play in the all Ireland local soccer league - so they can at least continue supporting 'their' team.

the talk about 'a country' , 'poaching', 'flags', 'anthems', 'symbols' etc is a bit disingenuous  (maybe with the best of intentions for some) - its not a country, we know that.If the two associations didnt want to keep their own wee strain of power, then Fifa would have had them amalgamate long ago.  a 'uk team' would be fine, we are looking for an 'Ireland' team !
nationalists/catholics/protestants that want to play for Ireland cannot be deemed as being 'poached' - this is the island of Ireland - at worst they can be seen as 'glory hunters'.
Plenty of (young) players use clubs before s**ting on them to jump ship for a bigger and better club - this is what some are doing with the ni setup. why the big ruckus ?

anyhow Ireland have improved with a lot of new young players. Will be stifled by Traps tactics I fear.
It seems the ni side and aquad are sliding back down the rankings again.
Neither side will ever be of any use until an all Ireland side comes about. Even then...

thats the 'funny' thing about the ni soccer fans though, its not about the siuccess - because they will never have any - with the greatest respect - they are very much 'borrowing' from England and scotland where fans go to support their side week in week out no matter how sihte they are. As soccer isnt our number 1 sport here, our support is way more fickle/inconsistent.

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 08:45:06 AM
As I originally stated the boycott did relate to travel arrangements.  Incereasingly, however, it also related to the ongoing poaching issue.  I'm afraid you will have to believe me that this is the case.  If you look at the situation objectively, you could see that what I have say is plausible.

Given that we have travelled with many thousands of fans in recent years to far flung parts of Europe, do you really think that if there was not an issue with the FAI that we would not take more than 54 fans 100 miles down the road?

So now ni fans are boycotting everything organised by the FAI??? Wtf? The golaposts are being moved so much to suit whatever seems like a good excuse at the time its beyond a joke. Fact is NI are being hammered in evey game so the fans arent going down, but rather than admit perhaps they're not the greatest fans in the world after all, they're inventing boycotts and blaming everyone else, as usual.

Btw, hopefully being helpful rather than patronising, if you want to quote a reply, theres a quote button at the top right of the post, seems you've been writing them out?

Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 26, 2011, 10:18:35 AM




Plenty of (young) players use clubs before s**ting on them to jump ship for a bigger and better club - this is what some are doing with the ni setup. why the big ruckus ?
It seems the ni side and aquad are sliding back down the rankings again.
Neither side will ever be of any use until an all Ireland side comes about. Even then...

thats the 'funny' thing about the ni soccer fans though, its not about the siuccess - because they will never have any - with the greatest respect - they are very much 'borrowing' from England and scotland where fans go to support their side week in week out no matter how sihte they are. As soccer isnt our number 1 sport here, our support is way more fickle/inconsistent.

??? ???Because we're not talking about Clubs .........and aside from  that point , no compensation has been paid( or offered) in respect of any defectors.

Who or what are NI fans borrowing from England and Scotland?

In relation to the performance of the team these have been poor as of late , though with much weakened teams in general. I foresee a resurgence with a full team in the upcoming qualifiers.

The Carling Cup has been a very damp squib.

Quote from: Olaf on May 26, 2011, 11:48:56 AM
??? ???Because we're not talking about Clubs .........and aside from  that point , no compensation has been paid( or offered) in respect of any defectors.
Who or what are NI fans borrowing from England and Scotland?
In relation to the performance of the team these have been poor as of late , though with much weakened teams in general. I foresee a resurgence with a full team in the upcoming qualifiers.
The Carling Cup has been a very damp squib.

'borrowing' - as in the ni fans are using he same soccer supporting template as soccer fans in England and Scotland do. Blindly following their team week in week out, home or away.
its the culture there , but unheard of in Ireland - up until recently when the ni soccer team and its fans got themselves up like this.

I cant agree with you about the player poaching. whether there is compensation or not, its not what a young lad will be thinking of. they will use and abuse in order to progress their career.
they will take the first/closest club that will take them on to train them and get them noticed and jump from there.
Ni is effectively a big club. It would still be smaller in support and resources in comparison to most epl sides. Yer like the 'crewe' of the 'international' world.

yeah, teams will be up and down. ni may unearth some good talent yet.
Ireland seems to have done so recently. Some via granny rule.

However I think the ni team will eventually be gone - same as the Ireland team as we know it and be replaced by a unified Ireland side. That is the ultimate eventuality. The time is the only debatable !

Quote from: Olaf on May 26, 2011, 11:48:56 AM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 26, 2011, 10:18:35 AM




Plenty of (young) players use clubs before s**ting on them to jump ship for a bigger and better club - this is what some are doing with the ni setup. why the big ruckus ?
It seems the ni side and aquad are sliding back down the rankings again.
Neither side will ever be of any use until an all Ireland side comes about. Even then...

thats the 'funny' thing about the ni soccer fans though, its not about the siuccess - because they will never have any - with the greatest respect - they are very much 'borrowing' from England and scotland where fans go to support their side week in week out no matter how sihte they are. As soccer isnt our number 1 sport here, our support is way more fickle/inconsistent.

??? ???Because we're not talking about Clubs .........and aside from  that point , no compensation has been paid( or offered) in respect of any defectors.

Who or what are NI fans borrowing from England and Scotland?

In relation to the performance of the team these have been poor as of late , though with much weakened teams in general. I foresee a resurgence with a full team in the upcoming qualifiers.

The Carling Cup has been a very damp squib.

Olaf,

I'm not going to go searching for a list of examples but Oliver Norwood has played underage for England. He now plays for northern ireland. Has compensation been paid to England for that defector? The answer to that could well be that it has been but I have no idea and am interested

Quote from: haranguerer on May 26, 2011, 08:29:02 AM

Quote from: michaelg on May 25, 2011, 08:00:53 PM
As for the boycott which another poster made reference to, he is correct in saying that the boycott did initially relate to the travel arrangements.  Shortly after those plans were made public, however, another defection (Devine of Preston) was announced.  Given that young Ferguson also seems likely to make the switch, the boycott increasingly became related to the divisive and frankly sectarian player poaching issue. 

The boycott was about the travel arrangements, to highlight to the IFA how the fans thought they wee being ill treated. Thats how it was announced. Thats what it was about. IN reality, the 'boycott' was just loyal OWC fans not bothering their hole to go cos they knew they were gonna get hammered, as one fan admitted.

Btw, I hear 54 tickets have been sold for the Wales game, I didnt know they'd been at the 'poaching' as well??

The boycott was 95% about travel arrangements which were enforced after the antics of a hooligan element in the OWC support at the game against Scotland. Unfortunately the majority of the ordinary decent fans suffer for the actions of a few.
With some retrospective dexterity they managed to shove into the reasons for the boycott, the issue of NI players declaring for the FAI.

There is an astounding general level of ignorance in NI, amongst the fans of the OWC/IFA about the FIFA rules of eligibility, a blind stubborn refusal to accept that Irish citizens can chose to play for the FAI and that Irish citizens want to play for the team of the Republic.
National identity is not confined by borders, nor can another national identity be imposed by the creation of a border. Whilst the law of the land has to be obeyed, the constitutional rights of the individual to their legitimate identity can not be lawfully suppressed.

There is not the remotest possibility of the FIFA rules of eligibility being changed to restrict citizens playing for their representative team. The FAI is the only representative team for Irish nationals.   An Irish national can play for NI, only if they are British nationals.

boycott my hole - the truth is they were sh!te scared the guards would hammer them after their antics at the scotland game where they destroyed the capital catching everyone off guard

This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?

They're two seperate countries.

Ireland is currently going through a temporary separation (which will probably end up being for a pretty insignificant period in the grand scheme of things). It also already has many sports teams representing the whole island.

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?

interesting point alright - however, were spain and portugal a single country years back ?
I dont think so - not the same way that Ireland was.

the opposite is tru for spain - are there not a couple of small regions that want to go back to having their own independant state?
eg catalonia , basque, galicia

from what you say,the whole of central europe should be one largecountry - funnily enough- thats how the EU commission are looking at it too !

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?

There is no territorial dispute there. But there are examples of Brazillian players declaring for Portugal. But the main point is that NI is not a country it is part of the Island of Ireland and a region of the UK as things currently stand. Not only that but 40%+ of the population have no allegience to it.

Quote from: haranguerer on May 26, 2011, 01:19:14 PM
They're two seperate countries.

Ireland is currently going through a temporary separation (which will probably end up being for a pretty insignificant period in the grand scheme of things). It also already has many sports teams representing the whole island.

90 years with no end in sight is not really a temporary situation.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 03:25:45 PM

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?

There is no territorial dispute there. But there are examples of Brazillian players declaring for Portugal. But the main point is that NI is not a country it is part of the Island of Ireland and a region of the UK as things currently stand. Not only that but 40%+ of the population have no allegience to it.

As a part of the UK and sharing the same land mass as the ROI, surely then NI is a separate country?

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 04:28:12 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 26, 2011, 01:19:14 PM
They're two seperate countries.

Ireland is currently going through a temporary separation (which will probably end up being for a pretty insignificant period in the grand scheme of things). It also already has many sports teams representing the whole island.

90 years with no end in sight is not really a temporary situation.

:D In terms of our lives, perhaps not. In terms of a countrys life, a mere grain in of sand in its hourglass...

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 07:43:18 AM
This is the hard bit. The two obvious ones being anthem and flag. Maybe a new crest depicting Unionist symbols, red hand, poppy along with a harp, crown, shamrock? The anthem recognising all people on the island, maybe a verse on the Somme, WWI and II. Matches played in Windsor as well as Aviva. FAI dissolved and new association to remain as IFA. 

At the risk of repeating myself, the actions of the FAI the other night are not those of a forward thinking organisation which is aiming to respect all traditions on the island.  Whilst your ideas are laudable, although that does not mean I am in favour, they are also completely pie in the sky.  In addition, NI fans now, and with some justification, have nothing but contempt for the FAI.

Perhaps you could enlighten us how the red hand, and the poppy for that matter, are unionist symbols. And why are you bringing the Somme, WWI and WWII into it ... are you telling me the UVF won both?  Sure we'll throw in a few bars of the theme from the Ipcress File and you can claim credit for winning the Cold War too  ???

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 07:43:18 AM
This is the hard bit. The two obvious ones being anthem and flag. Maybe a new crest depicting expropriated Unionist symbols, red hand, poppy along with a harp, crown, shamrock? The anthem recognising all people on the island, maybe a verse on the Somme, WWI and II. Matches played in Windsor as well as Aviva. FAI dissolved and new association to remain as IFA. 

Fixed that for you!  :P

i suppose they could always have the titanic and george best...

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 04:31:33 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 03:25:45 PM

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?

There is no territorial dispute there. But there are examples of Brazillian players declaring for Portugal. But the main point is that NI is not a country it is part of the Island of Ireland and a region of the UK as things currently stand. Not only that but 40%+ of the population have no allegience to it.

As a part of the UK and sharing the same land mass as the ROI, surely then NI is a separate country?

Iexpect that you wish this were true , but the reality is that it never was, is not or never will be - a country.
Part of a country yes.
Think you are new here and this is going over old ground and there will never be agreement between the Irish people and those supporting the north of Ireland soccer team etc on this until it is no longer a question (ie reunification of Ireland and merging of the two soccer teams).
I'd say you have a good bit of enjoyment left in supporting the ni team. you lads seem to enjoy it , whatever about all the political clap trap and are /aren't inclusive etc.

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 04:31:33 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 03:25:45 PM

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?

There is no territorial dispute there. But there are examples of Brazillian players declaring for Portugal. But the main point is that NI is not a country it is part of the Island of Ireland and a region of the UK as things currently stand. Not only that but 40%+ of the population have no allegience to it.

As a part of the UK and sharing the same land mass as the ROI, surely then NI is a separate country?

Exactly my point the UK is the country...or Ireland depending on your point of view.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 26, 2011, 05:10:08 PM

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 04:31:33 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 03:25:45 PM

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?

There is no territorial dispute there. But there are examples of Brazillian players declaring for Portugal. But the main point is that NI is not a country it is part of the Island of Ireland and a region of the UK as things currently stand. Not only that but 40%+ of the population have no allegience to it.

As a part of the UK and sharing the same land mass as the ROI, surely then NI is a separate country?

Iexpect that you wish this were true , but the reality is that it never was, is not or never will be - a country.
Part of a country yes.
Think you are new here and this is going over old ground and there will never be agreement between the Irish people and those supporting the north of Ireland soccer team etc on this until it is no longer a question (ie reunification of Ireland and merging of the two soccer teams).
I'd say you have a good bit of enjoyment left in supporting the ni team. you lads seem to enjoy it , whatever about all the political clap trap and are /aren't inclusive etc.

I didn't bring it up - you did.

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 05:16:03 PM

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 04:31:33 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 03:25:45 PM

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?

There is no territorial dispute there. But there are examples of Brazillian players declaring for Portugal. But the main point is that NI is not a country it is part of the Island of Ireland and a region of the UK as things currently stand. Not only that but 40%+ of the population have no allegience to it.

As a part of the UK and sharing the same land mass as the ROI, surely then NI is a separate country?

Exactly my point the UK is the country...or Ireland depending on your point of view.

As far as I understand, the UK is made up of 4 constituent parts / seperate countries, one of which is Northern Ireland.

Quote from: haranguerer on May 26, 2011, 01:19:14 PM
They're two seperate countries.

Ireland is currently going through a temporary separation (which will probably end up being for a pretty insignificant period in the grand scheme of things). It also already has many sports teams representing the whole island.

I'm 52, i won't live to see it, and i would like to live to say, 90.

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 09:37:22 PM
As far as I understand, the UK is made up of 4 constituent parts/separate countries (or parts thereof), one of which is Northern Ireland.

Fixed that for you, yet again. Getting sick of this!  :D

Quote from: dillinger on May 26, 2011, 10:06:16 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 26, 2011, 01:19:14 PM
They're two seperate countries.

Ireland is currently going through a temporary separation (which will probably end up being for a pretty insignificant period in the grand scheme of things). It also already has many sports teams representing the whole island.

I'm 52, i won't live to see it, and i would like to live to say, 90.

'cut dahn on yer pork pies mate'
;)

christ, how many are at the aviva tonight ! Coagh United could have hosted it

I see Niall Maginn has had to backtrack on his Robbie Keane moment.

Northern Ireland is a constituent country of the UK.

Glad to be of service :)

Quote from: AQMP on May 26, 2011, 09:45:34 AM

Quote from: MW on May 25, 2011, 09:11:11 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2011, 01:47:31 PM
For a crowd who claim they don't do politics and who want "soccer for all" -
why do they use the UK State anthem as their anthem (it is only the National anthem of 55% of the 6 Cos population) ? -

I think it's used because it's always been used - Scotland and Wales used to use it too. (It is after all "the national anthem" across the UK) I'd be more than happy to see it changed for NI matches, as would a significant section of the NI support. I've been arguing this case for many years now. I think the IFA wants to shy away from the difficult decision on this.

Quote
why did the few IFA fans who were in Lansdowne Road last night have two of the largest Union Jacks prominently displayed behind them.? If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?

"No Fenians wanted here"  is the message sent out loud and clear.

Well EG/MW ?
Exempting Nifan from this  ;)

Firstly, and sorry for taking this first but this is a bugbear of mine, "IFA fans" is a silly turn of phrase. They're not fans of the IFA, in fact they most likely are strong critics of the IFA. They're Northern Ireland fans.

Secondly, again, I'd prefer it if people didn't bring Union Flags. I think they do so not because they're making any sort of "no Fenians" statement but because for some reason which I don't really fathom they think they need to show their British identity. It's only a minority that does this. And hard to press down on, since it's actually the official flag of NI.

Thirdly, saying "If they are simply following a team why not a green and white flag ... the team colours?" is a bit disingenuous - it's international football. There will always be national flags, even if (as in Italy, the Netherlands, or Germany), they don't coincide with the colour of the team's kit. You're not really making an argument against national flags in general at international football, are you?

Fourthly, a question to you - what do you make of the sizeable number of Tricolours flown by a significant proportion of the crowd at Ireland rugby games?

Oh really ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiWP5Z6GTgY&feature=BFa&list=PL7340235AF2B8CC33&index=16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1ONnyiPqw

Can you read? ::)

Quote from: Rossfan on May 26, 2011, 09:15:35 AM
Rugby issue = "whataboutery".

Oh wise up. Pointing up the problems with the only mass-supported competitive all-Ireland team is not "whataboutery".

QuoteThe IRFU with their Ireland's call and Ulster flag make some effort to address the 2 political jurisdictions issue.

An extremely poor, chauvinistic and insulting effort.

Quote
( If a lot of people see the All Ireland symbol of the Tricolour ( 26 Cos State flag ,National flag of 45% of the 6 Cos population) as suitable for waving at rugby matches involving the All Ireland team that's their business. The UK State flag isn't a unique flag representing the 6Co area.)

Therein lies the problem, really, doesn't it? An all-Ireland team simply wouldn't work because "Tricolour nationalism" (to coin a clumsy phrase would inevitably be dragged into it, as rugby demonstrates.

QuoteThe IFA make no effort to address the fact of 45% non British population in their area.
While they can't be responsible for the flags their team's followers bring to games they should surely be inclusive by dropping the UK Anthem and just fly the IFA crest flag. It might lead to less "defections" to the FAI too  ;)

The anthem should change. BTW why are the Irish symbolism of the crest and team colours never noted in these type of discussions?

Quote
45 % of the populations of Italy,Holland,Germany are not seeking Union with adjoining States or look upon other flags as their National Flag. Their National flags irepresents the same area as their Soccer Association.

So as I said, you weren't actually making a general point with regard to national flags and team colours. The "problem" is that the Union Flag is the official flag of NI - but I'd prefer people didn't bring it to NI games.

Quote from: MW on May 28, 2011, 11:00:27 AM
Therein lies the problem, really, doesn't it? An all-Ireland team simply wouldn't work because "Tricolour nationalism" (to coin a clumsy phrase would inevitably be dragged into it, as rugby demonstrates.

the All Ireland rugby team seems to work quite well. ( Too bloody well seeing it's that abomination of a game  :D.) Perhaps it's the overtly one sided political nature of NI/6 Co soccerites that's the main problem.

By the way MW hope you weren't crushed in the crowd in Lansdowne Road last night  ;D ;D

Quote from: MW on May 28, 2011, 10:51:34 AM
Northern Ireland is a constituent country of the UK.

Glad to be of service :)

Well to be honest Northern Ireland, England and Scotland are regions of the U.K. 

Wales doesn't actually exist its a devolved region of England and Cornwall has been reduced to county status.

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 04:28:12 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 26, 2011, 01:19:14 PM
They're two seperate countries.

Ireland is currently going through a temporary separation (which will probably end up being for a pretty insignificant period in the grand scheme of things). It also already has many sports teams representing the whole island.

90 years with no end in sight is not really a temporary situation.

Scotland appears interested in implementing partition in Britian.  ;D

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 04:31:33 PM

Quote from: Applesisapples on May 26, 2011, 03:25:45 PM

Quote from: michaelg on May 26, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
This is not meant to be a dig by the way.  People talk about the island of Ireland automatically meaning that there can only be one country to represent everybody on that land mass.  By similar rationale, could it not be also argued that Spain and Portugal should automatically join together to represent the Iberian peninsula?

There is no territorial dispute there. But there are examples of Brazillian players declaring for Portugal. But the main point is that NI is not a country it is part of the Island of Ireland and a region of the UK as things currently stand. Not only that but 40%+ of the population have no allegience to it.

As a part of the UK and sharing the same land mass as the ROI, surely then NI is a separate country?

ROI are a soccer team, no such country.

Quote from: haranguerer on May 26, 2011, 05:08:06 PM
i suppose they could always have the titanic and george best...

Nah Liverpool are claiming the Titanic and Manchester Gerorgie Best. Perfidious Albion eh!

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 28, 2011, 05:22:40 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 26, 2011, 05:08:06 PM
i suppose they could always have the titanic and george best...

Nah Liverpool are claiming the Titanic and Manchester Gerorgie Best. Perfidious Albion eh!

Who's claiming Patrick Kielty?

Quote from: ziggysego on May 28, 2011, 05:54:55 PM

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on May 28, 2011, 05:22:40 PM

Quote from: haranguerer on May 26, 2011, 05:08:06 PM
i suppose they could always have the titanic and george best...

Nah Liverpool are claiming the Titanic and Manchester Gerorgie Best. Perfidious Albion eh!

Who's claiming Patrick Kielty?

Don't know but Sky News was claiming Ryanair a few days back.