In August 20008 a thread was started on this board in connection with the Warrenpoint ambush and more specifically, the celebrations to mark its anniversary by a republican splinter group. (I don't now recall its name.)
Many of the board members here will remember that the exchanges across the political divide grew a bit heated before Mod 1 stepped in and closed down the thread.
But, just before Mod1 intervened, a spin off thread to discuss the history of Northern Ireland was started.
Wiser counsel, IMO, prevailed and this thread was aborted. Feelings on both sides were running high and in the wake of the mod's intervention on the Warrenpoint thread, the likelihood was that he'd do the same with this one.
I am proposing that the subject in question should be brought up again, now that passions on both sides ought to have cooled down somewhat.
But they started it.
The political future is an interesting topic; are divisions so deep, dormant or not, that there'll never be anything other than a NI with self determination?
As a footnote, I'd add that I have no hidden motives of any sort when bringing this subject up again. It's more a case of, "What sort of future can NI have, given its history?"
From memory I think it was sinn fein youth who were going on a tour on historical tour and one of the places was narrow water.
I suppose it give some people something to cry about ::)
Lar this place will never heal.
i work with 16 to 18 year old's everyday, mostly kids from Carrickfergus. I'd say one or two would not be bigots what i find really strange is that they were not born during the troubles, they live in an area that has little or no Catholics, the vast majority of them will end up in the UDA cause thats what they do!!!!
I would debate with them and ask the questions, why do you not like Catholics, I've never got an answer, it would have been the same when i worked in Belfast, Catholic kids hating Prods. won't change in my lifetime
Northern Ireland is conclusive proof that Homo sapiens and Neanderthals might be compatible genetically but they are not compatible socio-economically, linguistically and cromulently.
At last, some realism. Wish the arseholes who want to bring in "normal" british politics could see the same.
Quote from: muppet on July 04, 2010, 02:03:47 PM
Northern Ireland is conclusive proof that Homo sapiens and Neanderthals might be compatible genetically but they are not compatible socio-economically, linguistically and cromulently.
I must express my emphatic contrafibularities.
This is a bit off topic but I was driving through a village today between Castlewellan and Banbridge, its name now excapes me. I would never comment publicly or otherwise about the parades and 12th July as if thats Protestant culture then so be it. But I was completely astounded today when I saw this flag below among all the other decorations flags etc:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Flag_of_South_Africa_1928-1994.svg/200px-Flag_of_South_Africa_1928-1994.svg.png)
Dear God this is the flag of Apartheid South Africa. Now I can look over the Israeli flags and UDA ones etc, but what in Gods name can they associate with the one of the most vicious regimes in history. I have to say it just completely astounded me. I wouldnt see myself as a bigoted person in as much as I have Protestant friends and all, but just cant see how people one, could put it up, then other right minded people could let it stay there.
I dont want this post to sound offensive, and dont want to tar everyone with the same brush, but I'm just dumbfounded by it!
Sorry mate, but no suprise there. Israel, South Africa and Our Wee Country - basically a 'master race' mentality fighting an in-bred, criminal minority that needs to be 'gassed'. Their thoughts, not mine. I think that if you go back to a guy called Robert Bradford MP - assassinated by the Bon Jovies in 1981 - you will find the argument that NI Protestants are, infact, one of the lost tribes of Israel. Therefore, God's chosen people who, by some historical quirk, have ended up on 'Ulster' (I presume they took the wrong turn at Egypt). So, just as God has made them special, anything they do is justified as they are supreme and everyone else is scum. If you want to know how this theory played out in practice, well, you could look at employment statistics in the Six Counties from 1922 for a start. Indeed, put this to the test and walk down Royal Avenue on the Twelfth doing a collection for St. Vincent de Paul.
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on July 04, 2010, 10:42:06 PM
Sorry mate, but no suprise there. Israel, South Africa and Our Wee Country - basically a 'master race' mentality fighting an in-bred, criminal minority that needs to be 'gassed'. Their thoughts, not mine. I think that if you go back to a guy called Robert Bradford MP - assassinated by the Bon Jovies in 1981 - you will find the argument that NI Protestants are, infact, one of the lost tribes of Israel. Therefore, God's chosen people who, by some historical quirk, have ended up on 'Ulster' (I presume they took the wrong turn at Egypt). So, just as God has made them special, anything they do is justified as they are supreme and everyone else is scum. If you want to know how this theory played out in practice, well, you could look at employment statistics in the Six Counties from 1922 for a start. Indeed, put this to the test and walk down Royal Avenue on the Twelfth doing a collection for St. Vincent de Paul.
Some dick puts a flag up and you have 900,000 people thinking they're the master race. :o
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 04, 2010, 01:10:47 PM
Lar this place will never heal.
i work with 16 to 18 year old's everyday, mostly kids from Carrickfergus. I'd say one or two would not be bigots what i find really strange is that they were not born during the troubles, they live in an area that has little or no Catholics, the vast majority of them will end up in the UDA cause thats what they do!!!!
I would debate with them and ask the questions, why do you not like Catholics, I've never got an answer, it would have been the same when i worked in Belfast, Catholic kids hating Prods. won't change in my lifetime
I completely disagree. Things have changed so much since I was that age that I can only see things change futher. I'm not naive enough to say when, but I think that it is happening slowly. All societies change regardless. One example could be the civil war politics in the south. Things have changed so much from the time of the war but it has left a lasting effect on the politics of the country that is still recognisable. The problem is that it is often just replaced with another form of division.
I think what you are seeing can be compared to all communities. They all have a dislike for someone. Where I am living now the kids living in my area hate the kids living in the upper class areas. Many of them also hate the black and Asian communities. While my experience here is based along different lines and a different history it is no less present it just doesn't have a bloody history.
If you are not contented with your station in life you are going to hate someone. Just human nature.
Quote from: fearglasmor on July 05, 2010, 08:18:47 AM
If you are not contented with your station in life you are going to hate someone. Just human nature.
That's too easy. You can (and many do) fight against that hate.
No doubt the village was Moneyslane....
The flag of old South africa would have been up to commerate those 'brave gunrunners' who supplied the weapons to the chosen race here. A lot of loyalist guns came in from there, suppose it's a nod to them
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 04, 2010, 11:14:52 PM
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on July 04, 2010, 10:42:06 PM
Sorry mate, but no suprise there. Israel, South Africa and Our Wee Country - basically a 'master race' mentality fighting an in-bred, criminal minority that needs to be 'gassed'. Their thoughts, not mine. I think that if you go back to a guy called Robert Bradford MP - assassinated by the Bon Jovies in 1981 - you will find the argument that NI Protestants are, infact, one of the lost tribes of Israel. Therefore, God's chosen people who, by some historical quirk, have ended up on 'Ulster' (I presume they took the wrong turn at Egypt). So, just as God has made them special, anything they do is justified as they are supreme and everyone else is scum. If you want to know how this theory played out in practice, well, you could look at employment statistics in the Six Counties from 1922 for a start. Indeed, put this to the test and walk down Royal Avenue on the Twelfth doing a collection for St. Vincent de Paul.
Some dick puts a flag up and you have 900,000 people thinking they're the master race. :o
+1, catch yourself on.
Quote from: fearglasmor on July 05, 2010, 08:18:47 AM
If you are not contented with your station in life you are going to hate someone. Just human nature.
You can be content with your station personally but have major poliitcal misgivings. Or you can just hate the sight of the peelers cos they're overfed.
Quote from: orange2009 on July 04, 2010, 10:01:46 PM
I dont want this post to sound offensive, and dont want to tar everyone with the same brush, but I'm just dumbfounded by it!
Im dumfounded too, though you cant legislate for stupidity, or some dumb p***k who thinks anything with a union jack on it is cool
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on July 04, 2010, 10:42:06 PM
Sorry mate, but no suprise there. Israel, South Africa and Our Wee Country - basically a 'master race' mentality fighting an in-bred, criminal minority that needs to be 'gassed'. Their thoughts, not mine. I think that if you go back to a guy called Robert Bradford MP - assassinated by the Bon Jovies in 1981 - you will find the argument that NI Protestants are, infact, one of the lost tribes of Israel. Therefore, God's chosen people who, by some historical quirk, have ended up on 'Ulster' (I presume they took the wrong turn at Egypt). So, just as God has made them special, anything they do is justified as they are supreme and everyone else is scum. If you want to know how this theory played out in practice, well, you could look at employment statistics in the Six Counties from 1922 for a start. Indeed, put this to the test and walk down Royal Avenue on the Twelfth doing a collection for St. Vincent de Paul.
careful, pointing out what actually happened will send the apologists and excuse brigade into overdrive as has already started !!
you could include more as in the teatment of nationalists, the oppressive antics of the establishment, the persecution enforced by ruc and b 'specials' etc.
But mention this behavious as having caused civil rights marches and you will have some fools denying that these people were looking for a solution to the regieme modeled or at least giving a nod to the wonderful south african system!
by denying this is a further insult to those killed on bloody sunday and the hundreds of thousands persecuted - let alone the hundreds of thousands more whose lives were destroyed by it...(but others still seek to say that nationalists/republicans caused more damage than the oppressors ????!!! ::)~)
Can the title of this thread be changed to "The political history of the North of Ireland" as Northern Ireland does not exist
Quote from: Hereiam on July 05, 2010, 11:20:29 AM
Can the title of this thread be changed to "The political history of the North of Ireland" as Northern Ireland does not exist
Feck me. Where was I yesterday :o ???
Quote from: Hereiam on July 05, 2010, 11:20:29 AM
Can the title of this thread be changed to "The political history of the North of Ireland" as Northern Ireland does not exist
What about changing it to the political history of the north west of Britian ::)
QuoteQuote from: Hereiam on Today at 11:20:29 AM
Can the title of this thread be changed to "The political history of the North of Ireland" as Northern Ireland does not exist
What about changing it to the political history of the north west of Britian
Because we are discussing Ireland not Scotland and her outlaying Islands, in case it failed your attention IReland isn't in Britain or do you not recognise the likes of the British and Irish Lions Rugby tour???
Quote from: Banana Man on July 05, 2010, 01:05:09 PM
QuoteQuote from: Hereiam on Today at 11:20:29 AM
Can the title of this thread be changed to "The political history of the North of Ireland" as Northern Ireland does not exist
What about changing it to the political history of the north west of Britian
Because we are discussing Ireland not Scotland and her outlaying Islands, in case it failed your attention IReland isn't in Britain or do you not recognise the likes of the British and Irish Lions Rugby tour???
Alright then just for you then can we change it to the 'politcal history of the north west of the united kingdom' :-*
Although actually we are discussing Northern Ireland (the clue is in the title) anything else is simply peurile point scoring.
Quote from: Hereiam on July 05, 2010, 11:20:29 AM
Can the title of this thread be changed to "The political history of the North of Ireland" as Northern Ireland does not exist
Well, I had thought about this matter alright but I decided to use the term, "Northern Ireland," instead of Ulster or The Six Counties or whatever as I felt it would be the one least likely to upset anyone.
Down south, I feel most of the general public would speak of Northern Ireland or more simply, The North, without any sort of political or religious overtones.
I really have no reservations about changing its name to anything else as long as I don't cause unintentional offence to anybody from any sector of the community "Up (Down?) There." ;D
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
If it could only be as simple as the free state ;)
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
We can all agree that you're a feckin muppet.
Quote from: ONeill on July 05, 2010, 02:58:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
We can all agree that you're a feckin muppet.
The point being that if both sides can't even agree on a name, it is unlikely there will be agreement on an entire history, is there?
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
The only thing that annoyed me, is referring to Britain as the 'Mainland'. I mean, Unionist or not, get over your inferiority complex!
Quote from: ziggysego on July 05, 2010, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
The only thing that annoyed me, is referring to Britain as the 'Mainland'. I mean, Unionist or not, get over your inferiority complex!
Yeah, and try rowing to your f**king 'mainland' in a wee boat while you're at it, see how far you get!
i thrive on my hatred of unionism and hunnery and make no apologies for it. get yourselves down to ardoyne on tuesday, all hands on deck. T.A.L
Quote from: red hander on July 05, 2010, 05:35:33 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on July 05, 2010, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
The only thing that annoyed me, is referring to Britain as the 'Mainland'. I mean, Unionist or not, get over your inferiority complex!
Yeah, and try rowing to your f**king 'mainland' in a wee boat while you're at it, see how far you get!
Actually, people have been doing just that for thousands of years...
"The prehistoric builders of the promontory fort at Knockdhu (which means 'black hill' in Gaelic) shared a common culture and traded regularly with their neighbours across the sea in Scotland, as archaeological finds in both areas clearly indicate. Indeed, Alison Sheridan brought along photographs of a hoard of flint tools found in 1990 by a schoolboy at Campbelltown, in Argyllshire, which had been made from the high-quality Antrim flint"http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/T/timeteam/2009/knock/knock-found.html
Quote from: ziggysego on July 05, 2010, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
The only thing that annoyed me, is referring to Britain as the 'Mainland'. I mean, Unionist or not, get over your inferiority complex!
I think its you that has the complex, its the mainland and smaller islands of which there are many which are part of the UK but are not physically attached to it are not the mainland, easy really, hardly some conspiracy theory brought about to mildly annoy amazingly thin skinned nationalists ::)
Quote from: red hander on July 05, 2010, 05:35:33 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on July 05, 2010, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
The only thing that annoyed me, is referring to Britain as the 'Mainland'. I mean, Unionist or not, get over your inferiority complex!
Yeah, and try rowing to your f**king 'mainland' in a wee boat while you're at it, see how far you get!
I've been over to the mainland a number of times on a small rib.
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 05, 2010, 06:04:36 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 05, 2010, 05:35:33 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on July 05, 2010, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
The only thing that annoyed me, is referring to Britain as the 'Mainland'. I mean, Unionist or not, get over your inferiority complex!
Yeah, and try rowing to your f**king 'mainland' in a wee boat while you're at it, see how far you get!
Actually, people have been doing just that for thousands of years...
"The prehistoric builders of the promontory fort at Knockdhu (which means 'black hill' in Gaelic) shared a common culture and traded regularly with their neighbours across the sea in Scotland, as archaeological finds in both areas clearly indicate. Indeed, Alison Sheridan brought along photographs of a hoard of flint tools found in 1990 by a schoolboy at Campbelltown, in Argyllshire, which had been made from the high-quality Antrim flint"
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/T/timeteam/2009/knock/knock-found.html
I'm sure these traders didn't physically 'row', but used some sort of sail ... all I said was try rowing to the 'mainland' ... you'd be banjaxed
Quote from: delboy on July 05, 2010, 08:18:14 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 05, 2010, 05:35:33 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on July 05, 2010, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
The only thing that annoyed me, is referring to Britain as the 'Mainland'. I mean, Unionist or not, get over your inferiority complex!
Yeah, and try rowing to your f**king 'mainland' in a wee boat while you're at it, see how far you get!
I've been over to the mainland a number of times on a small rib.
I take it you mean an inflatable engine-powered (as opposed to oar-powered) boat rather than a particularly buoyant chest bone designed to protect the internal organs?
Run the whole lot of them into the bloody sea and let them swim back to their mainland ;)
Can we change this to 'The Political History of that part of the island of Ireland still held under the undemocratic Jackboot of foreign Imperialism i.e. the Six Counties of the North Eastern part of the island that do not spend the Euro" .. :P
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on July 05, 2010, 09:38:46 PM
. the Six Counties of the North Eastern part of the island that do not spend the Euro" .. :P
They're not great at spending anything else either. :D
Quote from: red hander on July 05, 2010, 08:58:56 PM
Quote from: delboy on July 05, 2010, 08:18:14 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 05, 2010, 05:35:33 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on July 05, 2010, 03:51:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 05, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I think the fact that people can't even agree on the name of the place sums it up perfectly.
The only thing that annoyed me, is referring to Britain as the 'Mainland'. I mean, Unionist or not, get over your inferiority complex!
Yeah, and try rowing to your f**king 'mainland' in a wee boat while you're at it, see how far you get!
I've been over to the mainland a number of times on a small rib.
I take it you mean an inflatable engine-powered (as opposed to oar-powered) boat rather than a particularly buoyant chest bone designed to protect the internal organs?
I do indeed mean an an inflatable engine-powered (as opposed to oar-powered) boat rather than a particularly buoyant chest bone designed to protect the internal organs.
The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact. Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse. It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U. Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk. The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?
The lesson? A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes. As part of the UK, we enjoy more or less all the freedoms that we could hope for in a free society. Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.
Let's face it, the SDLP and SF are sitting up in Stormont helping to administer the rule of the United Kingdom as part of a devolved government with few real competences. With little prospect of change on the constitutional front, surely it's about time we grew up and engaged with the real left-right, liberal-conservative, Keynsian v Monetarist politics of the age. I am of course conscious of how much easier that is to state than to inculcate. In conclusion, the lessons that I've learned as a young GAA-playing man from the Catholic community having studied and worked abroad lead me to the conclusion that when John Hume once spoke of entering a post-Nationalist era, people like myself back then should not have mocked him so.
'careful, pointing out what actually happened will send the apologists and excuse brigade into overdrive as has already started !!
you could include more as in the teatment of nationalists, the oppressive antics of the establishment, the persecution enforced by ruc and b 'specials' etc.
But mention this behavious as having caused civil rights marches and you will have some fools denying that these people were looking for a solution to the regieme modeled or at least giving a nod to the wonderful south african system!
by denying this is a further insult to those killed on bloody sunday and the hundreds of thousands persecuted - let alone the hundreds of thousands more whose lives were destroyed by it...(but others still seek to say that nationalists/republicans caused more damage than the oppressors ?!!! ~)'
If they modelled NI on SA, they didn't do a very good job, did they? What happened to the NI equivalent of the Bantustans, the homelands set aside for the poor oppressed Catholics? Could've done a better job stamping out the Catholic maintained education sector - surely it was a mistake to educate and create all those Catholic teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc? And as for welfare benefits, well. As my mother used to say, if she hadn't had the Family Allowance, she wouldn't have been able to raise 9 kids. As it was, the Catholic proportion of the population rose from 33% at partition to nearly 40% at the start of the 1970's. Hardly an indicator of the oppression of hundreds of thousands, eh? Your tired old republican myths and conscience-salves are boring in the extreme.
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
Harps21, very well said
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
Are you 12?*
*I'm possibly doing a disservice to 12 year olds.
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PM
The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact. Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse. It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U. Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk. The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?
The lesson? A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes. As part of the UK, we enjoy more or less all the freedoms that we could hope for in a free society. Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.
Let's face it, the SDLP and SF are sitting up in Stormont helping to administer the rule of the United Kingdom as part of a devolved government with few real competences. With little prospect of change on the constitutional front, surely it's about time we grew up and engaged with the real left-right, liberal-conservative, Keynsian v Monetarist politics of the age. I am of course conscious of how much easier that is to state than to inculcate. In conclusion, the lessons that I've learned as a young GAA-playing man from the Catholic community having studied and worked abroad lead me to the conclusion that when John Hume once spoke of entering a post-Nationalist era, people like myself back then should not have mocked him so.
we can embark on this utopian political age when the union flags and bonfires and coat trailing marches are removed from our society.
Quote from: charlieTully on July 05, 2010, 11:31:32 PM
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PM
The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact. Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse. It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U. Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk. The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?
The lesson? A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes. As part of the UK, we enjoy more or less all the freedoms that we could hope for in a free society. Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.
Let's face it, the SDLP and SF are sitting up in Stormont helping to administer the rule of the United Kingdom as part of a devolved government with few real competences. With little prospect of change on the constitutional front, surely it's about time we grew up and engaged with the real left-right, liberal-conservative, Keynsian v Monetarist politics of the age. I am of course conscious of how much easier that is to state than to inculcate. In conclusion, the lessons that I've learned as a young GAA-playing man from the Catholic community having studied and worked abroad lead me to the conclusion that when John Hume once spoke of entering a post-Nationalist era, people like myself back then should not have mocked him so.
we can embark on this utopian political age when the union flags and bonfires and coat trailing marches are removed from our society.
And what of the tricolours and hunger striker memorials? exempt?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
I don't get Republicanism at all. If they're Irish Republicans, they should all live in the Irish Republic. Northern Ireland is not part of the (yet-to-be liberated) 26 counties... ::)
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
Why has no one thought of this before?
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:43:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.
Rubbish:
- Farrandeelin is correct the 6 counties is not part of Britain.
- Britain was created with the Act of Union in 1707. North America was settled in the 16th century (belfore Britain was created), therefore the British could not have been in Ireland longer than they have been in North America as the "British" only came into being after both were "settled".
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PM
The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact. Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse. It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U. Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk. The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?
The lesson? A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes.
Until you present some evidence to support your conclusions we can only assume that is all nonsense.
why would people tie in with the 'mainland' - sure most people in these two islands dont speak French, German, Spanish,Dutch etc etc - there are not too many recent historical links wth the countries of Europe so I dont understand what people refer to the mainland for !!
as for myles - yes SA is a good example - and SA also couldnt tie down truth and cover up the oppression and persecution - it had to fall eventually....a bit like what has happened and is happening in the north of Ireland ! I see you also cannot repel any of my other points!
Interesting that you cite the USA - they also ejected the british overlord! You see the pattern throughout the world.
Ireland is an island and whatever about the factions on it, they will all eventually be goverend by a single juristiction. This is inevitable.
Harps - I see you missing out one key and vital ingredient. Money.
loyalism and unionism are no longer physically militant - ever since they lost the backing and supply of weapons (plus training and extra shooters for each mission) from the british army.
Once the world and local Irish economy return to health, ths show will go back on the road.
Historically we have seen all peoples - not just unionists a and loyalists- succumb to the lure and promise of money.
The british people and gov want rid of the north and its financial burden. They have said so more and more than ever - last heard by cameron in the run up to elections.
It could have happened before 2020, but now the economic problems worldwide have halted this.
The politicians in westminister wont give a jot about unionist and loyalist opinion. They want to stop heaving money down the deep hole.
We shall see.
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 05, 2010, 11:41:26 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
I don't get Republicanism at all. If they're Irish Republicans, they should all live in the Irish Republic. Northern Ireland is not part of the (yet-to-be liberated) 26 counties... ::)
Does that include English republicans that don't believe in a monarchy?
Sorry, couldn't help myself ;)
Quote from: trileacman on July 05, 2010, 11:41:04 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on July 05, 2010, 11:31:32 PM
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PM
The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact. Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse. It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U. Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk. The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?
The lesson? A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes. As part of the UK, we enjoy more or less all the freedoms that we could hope for in a free society. Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.
Let's face it, the SDLP and SF are sitting up in Stormont helping to administer the rule of the United Kingdom as part of a devolved government with few real competences. With little prospect of change on the constitutional front, surely it's about time we grew up and engaged with the real left-right, liberal-conservative, Keynsian v Monetarist politics of the age. I am of course conscious of how much easier that is to state than to inculcate. In conclusion, the lessons that I've learned as a young GAA-playing man from the Catholic community having studied and worked abroad lead me to the conclusion that when John Hume once spoke of entering a post-Nationalist era, people like myself back then should not have mocked him so.
we can embark on this utopian political age when the union flags and bonfires and coat trailing marches are removed from our society.
And what of the tricolours and hunger striker memorials? exempt?
yes, i could agree with that. a flag free society would be the way to go.
So Harp esentially what you are implying is that we should just forget about Irish Unity because it is too risky, too long term a goal and too hard to achieve, and that we should all just become Post-Nationalists?
As someone who like yourself, has studied, and worked abroad I would have to say a big
No thanks. to that. Thankfully the people gave the SDLP the correct reaction to it's Post Nationalism ever since they came out of the closet on it back in 2001.
As for
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PM
Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.
I am someone who refuses to refer to these six counties as anything other than "the six counties". I don't see myself as being blind by doing so. I see myself as being true to my feelings/opinions.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 09:01:44 AM
why would people tie in with the 'mainland' - sure most people in these two islands dont speak French, German, Spanish,Dutch etc etc - there are not too many recent historical links wth the countries of Europe so I dont understand what people refer to the mainland for !!
Thats got to be one of the best gobbdegook sentences i've seen in a long time, what they hell are you banging on about ???
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 09:01:44 AM]as for myles - yes SA is a good example - and SA also couldnt tie down truth and cover up the oppression and persecution - it had to fall eventually....a bit like what has happened and is happening in the north of Ireland ! I see you also cannot repel any of my other points!
Interesting that you cite the USA - they also ejected the british overlord! You see the pattern throughout the world.
Ireland is an island and whatever about the factions on it, they will all eventually be goverend by a single juristiction. This is inevitable.
I think its insulting to the opressed people of SA to compare the regime they lived under with N. Ireland so why not go the whole hog and claim so some of rwandian genocide MOPE.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 09:01:44 AMHarps - I see you missing out one key and vital ingredient. Money.
loyalism and unionism are no longer physically militant - ever since they lost the backing and supply of weapons (plus training and extra shooters for each mission) from the british army.
Once the world and local Irish economy return to health, ths show will go back on the road.
Historically we have seen all peoples - not just unionists a and loyalists- succumb to the lure and promise of money.
The british people and gov want rid of the north and its financial burden. They have said so more and more than ever - last heard by cameron in the run up to elections.
It could have happened before 2020, but now the economic problems worldwide have halted this.
The politicians in westminister wont give a jot about unionist and loyalist opinion. They want to stop heaving money down the deep hole.
We shall see.
So you don't think one of the largest economies in the world can afford N. Ireland yet you think that Ireland can ??? On what basis that tiny unsustainable blip in irelands ecomonic fortunes, the celtic tiger boom, yeah of course :D
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 11:00:26 AM
Thats got to be one of the best gobbdegook sentences i've seen in a long time, what they hell are you banging on about ???
I think its insulting to the opresses people of SA to compare the regime they lived under with N. Ireland so why not go the whole hog and claim so some of rwandian genocide MOPE.
So you don't think one of the largest economies in the world can afford N. Ireland yet you think that Ireland can ??? On what basis that tiny unsustainable blip in irelands ecomonic fortunes, the celtic tiger boom, yeah of course :D
when you talk about 'mainlands' you surely are talking about mainland europe - not the two large islands off its north west coast !
its a pity of you to not like the comparison to SA. However your airbrushed history of the north of Ireland incluse the same kind of oppression and persecution - but for blacks insert catholics/Irish. If you dont agree then what exactly was bloody sunday ? Why were hey marching for 'civil rights' etc etc etc !
the prime minister of 'one of the largest economies in the world' has echoed what other british politicians have said - they want to jettison the financial burden that the north of Ireland is - they dont want to continue to pay for what doesnt belong to them !
that isn me saying it, this is the people from the british Gov and other parties !
Ireland will have to take the financial burden - which is why there will be a lot of panic and talk and financial incentives given by british, US and EU to Irish gov when the time comes in order for renunification to take place !
sticking your head in the sand wont make it go away ! :D
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 11:08:30 AM
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 11:00:26 AM
Thats got to be one of the best gobbdegook sentences i've seen in a long time, what they hell are you banging on about ???
I think its insulting to the opresses people of SA to compare the regime they lived under with N. Ireland so why not go the whole hog and claim so some of rwandian genocide MOPE.
So you don't think one of the largest economies in the world can afford N. Ireland yet you think that Ireland can ??? On what basis that tiny unsustainable blip in irelands ecomonic fortunes, the celtic tiger boom, yeah of course :D
when you talk about 'mainlands' you surely are talking about mainland europe - not the two large islands off its north west coast !
its a pity of you to not like the comparison to SA. However your airbrushed history of the north of Ireland incluse the same kind of oppression and persecution - but for blacks insert catholics/Irish. If you dont agree then what exactly was bloody sunday ? Why were hey marching for 'civil rights' etc etc etc !
the prime minister of 'one of the largest economies in the world' has echoed what other british politicians have said - they want to jettison the financial burden that the north of Ireland is - they dont want to continue to pay for what doesnt belong to them !
that isn me saying it, this is the people from the british Gov and other parties !
Ireland will have to take the financial burden - which is why there will be a lot of panic and talk and financial incentives given by british, US and EU to Irish gov when the time comes in order for renunification to take place !
sticking your head in the sand wont make it go away ! :D
Unlike you i am able to use the word mainland without out having to tie myself up in ideological conundrums, any island which is under the jurisdication of a larger land mass then refers to that larger land mass as the mainland.
MOPERY of the highest order, i said before why hold back why not call yourselves the rwandians of europe or some other such nonsense, sure who cares about belittling a much greater human injustice as long as you can score your cheap points.
Remind me again when cameron said they want to jettison the financial burden that the
north of Ireland is - they dont want to continue to pay for what doesnt belong to them! (odd that he didn't even call an area under his jurisdication by its correct name).
Oh thats right in your head wasn't it.
You think the yanks are going to pay for a UI, yeah that great peace dividend we got speaks volumes, an all expenses paid junket, sorry conference for american businessmen, you live in cloud republican cuckoo land.
So the UK government don't want to pay for us but you think they are going to pay the irish to pay for us, you've got a lot to learn. The EU, news flash, europeans don't give a tuppeny f*ck about irish reunification, you think the french, spanish etc are going to stump up to pay for your ideological wetdream, you're delusional.
Good luck shouldering that burden with a economy in the shitter and a population of 4.5 million about 6 if you throw us into the mix when a country over ten times the size supposedly couldn't hack it.
Sticking your head above the parapet and spouting shit wouldn't make it happen you know ;)
Quote from: Nally Stand on July 06, 2010, 10:45:30 AM
So Harp esentially what you are implying is that we should just forget about Irish Unity because it is too risky, too long term a goal and too hard to achieve, and that we should all just become Post-Nationalists?
As someone who like yourself, has studied, and worked abroad I would have to say a big No thanks. to that. Thankfully the people gave the SDLP the correct reaction to it's Post Nationalism ever since they came out of the closet on it back in 2001.
As for
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PM
Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.
I am someone who refuses to refer to these six counties as anything other than "the six counties". I don't see myself as being blind by doing so. I see myself as being true to my feelings/opinions.
where do you stand on the twelth parade through ardoyne, will you backing up your sf psni colleagues?
Quote from: Banana Man on July 05, 2010, 08:59:18 AM
No doubt the village was Moneyslane....
The flag of old South africa would have been up to commerate those 'brave gunrunners' who supplied the weapons to the chosen race here. A lot of loyalist guns came in from there, suppose it's a nod to them
Indeed it is. Just passed thru on the way to Castlewellan and it is sporting all the favourites - the old SA flag, Israeli flag plus the usual suspects.
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
any island which is under the jurisdication of a larger land mass then refers to that larger land mass as the mainland.
:o What did I miss while I was asleep?
the 'bonfire defenders' on the donegall road must have been asleep too, i see in the irish news that someone lobbed a petrol bomb into it and burnt it to the ground
the loyalists have now attached a sign saying ''God made the world in 6 days we will build our bonfire in 5''
i suppose you argue that McCausland shouldn't be writing signs but what shocked me the most was there was someone fit to tell them they had made a spelling mistake and they then painted over the letter 'E' they had included in Bonfire :D
Quote from: Hardy on July 06, 2010, 12:13:50 PM
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
any island which is under the jurisdication of a larger land mass then refers to that larger land mass as the mainland.
:o What did I miss while I was asleep?
you beat me to it Hardy !!!
by the same token, as britain /uk is in the EU - this means that they should refer to Europe as the 'mainland' as per delboys definition ! :D
but I suspect that this will lead to a bit of double standards as per usual !
delboy- I dont have any problems with anyone calling britain/uk the 'mainland' - its just that I find it amusing when you and the likes of you wont see that this is the same precedent in relation to 'mainland' europe !
Double standards indeed !
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 11:08:30 AM
Unlike you i am able to use the word mainland without out having to tie myself up in ideological conundrums, any island which is under the jurisdication of a larger land mass then refers to that larger land mass as the mainland.
MOPERY of the highest order, i said before why hold back why not call yourselves the rwandians of europe or some other such nonsense, sure who cares about belittling a much greater human injustice as long as you can score your cheap points.
Remind me again when cameron said they want to jettison the financial burden that the north of Ireland is - they dont want to continue to pay for what doesnt belong to them! (odd that he didn't even call an area under his jurisdication by its correct name).
Oh thats right in your head wasn't it.
You think the yanks are going to pay for a UI, yeah that great peace dividend we got speaks volumes, an all expenses paid junket, sorry conference for american businessmen, you live in cloud republican cuckoo land.
So the UK government don't want to pay for us but you think they are going to pay the irish to pay for us, you've got a lot to learn. The EU, news flash, europeans don't give a tuppeny f*ck about irish reunification, you think the french, spanish etc are going to stump up to pay for your ideological wetdream, you're delusional.
Good luck shouldering that burden with a economy in the shitter and a population of 4.5 million about 6 if you throw us into the mix when a country over ten times the size supposedly couldn't hack it.
Sticking your head above the parapet and spouting shit wouldn't make it happen you know ;)
we've already dealt with the 'mainland' item - above !
your 'rwandan' tangents are not even good barbs , subliminaly spiteful as they are - but maybe care to answer the question of bloody instead rather than dodge the issue !!
read back on what a lot of politicians said before the english election. Maybe take your head out of the sand and find out yourself. Sorry , its going to upset you !
if you actually read what was said - Irish reunification can only happen in a period of positive economic growth times ! No matter how hard the british gov will look to offload the money pit, they wont be able to do so until the world economic climate is right.
As for your jibe about the USA - well it shows you dont know much about economic history (as well as all the other things !!) - after WW2 germany was rebuilt along with moneies from...you guessed it - the USA.
Japan after the WW2 was rebuilt from financial aid from the USA.
Hong Kong was given back to the chinese and while no money may have changed hands, effectively it did as the british gave over rights to various financially lucrative money making rights to resources etc etc
There are other precedents where the USA have invested cash into countries that they have been to war with - Vietnam, grenada etc etc.
So after being involved in the peace process and pledging to invest in the country at the time of reunification, if they were financially able to do so then, I am sure that the Irish lobbyists in US senate etc would insist they follow this up.
Similarly being prt of the EU would qualify grants and financial aid from them.
dont let your bigotry trip you up !
Take off the blinkers and take the head out of the sand !
There are world precedents for so many other places when it comes to reunification and finacing! you and folk like you just dont want to see it.
The only other obstacle is that people of the south of Ireland wont actually want yous - but again money (investment, jobs and lucrative return to booming economy) will make them change their minds !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 12:39:19 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 06, 2010, 12:13:50 PM
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
any island which is under the jurisdication of a larger land mass then refers to that larger land mass as the mainland.
:o What did I miss while I was asleep?
you beat me to it Hardy !!!
by the same token, as britain /uk is in the EU - this means that they should refer to Europe as the 'mainland' as per delboys definition ! :D
but I suspect that this will lead to a bit of double standards as per usual !
delboy- I dont have any problems with anyone calling britain/uk the 'mainland' - its just that I find it amusing when you and the likes of you wont see that this is the same precedent in relation to 'mainland' europe !
Double standards indeed !
You've been imagaining things in that little brain box of yours again haven't you where did i say anything about europe, once again you are wrong, about the likes of me (whatever that means) for the record i do call it Mainland europe, its the big land mass to the right of the UK and of which the UK is one of the jurisdications, simply really, imaginary double standards indeed.
Geographically of course its also the european mainland since its forms the bulk of the contential shelf, to call it anything other than the european mainland would be daft.
Quote from: Hardy on July 06, 2010, 12:13:50 PM
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
any island which is under the jurisdication of a larger land mass then refers to that larger land mass as the mainland.
:o What did I miss while I was asleep?
Hardy, there had to be some retribution for tanking the Dubs!!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 11:08:30 AM
Unlike you i am able to use the word mainland without out having to tie myself up in ideological conundrums, any island which is under the jurisdication of a larger land mass then refers to that larger land mass as the mainland.
MOPERY of the highest order, i said before why hold back why not call yourselves the rwandians of europe or some other such nonsense, sure who cares about belittling a much greater human injustice as long as you can score your cheap points.
Remind me again when cameron said they want to jettison the financial burden that the north of Ireland is - they dont want to continue to pay for what doesnt belong to them! (odd that he didn't even call an area under his jurisdication by its correct name).
Oh thats right in your head wasn't it.
You think the yanks are going to pay for a UI, yeah that great peace dividend we got speaks volumes, an all expenses paid junket, sorry conference for american businessmen, you live in cloud republican cuckoo land.
So the UK government don't want to pay for us but you think they are going to pay the irish to pay for us, you've got a lot to learn. The EU, news flash, europeans don't give a tuppeny f*ck about irish reunification, you think the french, spanish etc are going to stump up to pay for your ideological wetdream, you're delusional.
Good luck shouldering that burden with a economy in the shitter and a population of 4.5 million about 6 if you throw us into the mix when a country over ten times the size supposedly couldn't hack it.
Sticking your head above the parapet and spouting shit wouldn't make it happen you know ;)
we've already dealt with the 'mainland' item - above !
your 'rwandan' tangents are not even good barbs , subliminaly spiteful as they are - but maybe care to answer the question of bloody instead rather than dodge the issue !!
read back on what a lot of politicians said before the english election. Maybe take your head out of the sand and find out yourself. Sorry , its going to upset you !
if you actually read what was said - Irish reunification can only happen in a period of positive economic growth times ! No matter how hard the british gov will look to offload the money pit, they wont be able to do so until the world economic climate is right.
As for your jibe about the USA - well it shows you dont know much about economic history (as well as all the other things !!) - after WW2 germany was rebuilt along with moneies from...you guessed it - the USA.
Japan after the WW2 was rebuilt from financial aid from the USA.
Hong Kong was given back to the chinese and while no money may have changed hands, effectively it did as the british gave over rights to various financially lucrative money making rights to resources etc etc
There are other precedents where the USA have invested cash into countries that they have been to war with - Vietnam, grenada etc etc.
So after being involved in the peace process and pledging to invest in the country at the time of reunification, if they were financially able to do so then, I am sure that the Irish lobbyists in US senate etc would insist they follow this up.
Similarly being prt of the EU would qualify grants and financial aid from them.
dont let your bigotry trip you up !
Take off the blinkers and take the head out of the sand !
There are world precedents for so many other places when it comes to reunification and finacing! you and folk like you just dont want to see it.
The only other obstacle is that people of the south of Ireland wont actually want yous - but again money (investment, jobs and lucrative return to booming economy) will make them change their minds !
Dealt with the mainland, i think not what you did was make something up, nothing unusal there then.
Show me all these comments (ok even some) were politicans talked about ditching the 'north of ireland', if you make claims at least have the decency to back them up with evidence, otherwise you are just spouting shit, nothing unusual there then.
What are you waffling about we were at war with the americans or something ??? You really are deluded, nothing unsual there then.
Accusing me of being a bigot, show me one bigoted remark i've made to back those claims, i bet you can't, nothing unsual there then.
Yes Yes a booming economy with 4.5 million people will of course be able to afford the basket case economy of northern ireland that you all keep banging on about, i suggest you don't leave your day job to become an economic analyst.
Tell me this Delboy, if you were on Rathlin Island for argument's sake what or where would the mainland be?
If you told whoever was driving the boat to go the mainland I odubt they would set off for Campbelltown
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PMEven if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk.
+1
Quote from: Banana Man on July 06, 2010, 01:26:29 PM
Tell me this Delboy, if you were on Rathlin Island for argument's sake what or where would the mainland be?
If you told whoever was driving the boat to go the mainland I odubt they would set off for Campbelltown
Well the ownership of it was contested between ireland and scotland so in the 17th century it would have been a toss up, but ireland won out in the end and its now part of N. Ireland, so in the context of rathlin the mainland would be Northern Ireland, whats the issue.
My point is you refer to England, Scotland and Wales as the UK mainland, so how can you stand on Rathlin Island, which whether we like it or not is under the jurisdiction of the UK and talkabout the north of Ireland (Northern Ireland) being the mainland, that totally contradicts your point - that's the issue
Quote from: Banana Man on July 06, 2010, 02:05:44 PM
My point is you refer to England, Scotland and Wales as the UK mainland, so how can you stand on Rathlin Island, which whether we like it or not is under the jurisdiction of the UK and talkabout the north of Ireland (Northern Ireland) being the mainland, that totally contradicts your point - that's the issue
No it doesn't rathlin is owned and under the jurisdication of northern ireland therefore the mainland is Northern Ireland.
Northern ireland is under the jurisdication of the UK the largest peice of which is to the right of us, that is the United Kingdom mainland.
The UK is part of the jurisdication of the EU the largest peice of which is to the right of them and is known as the european mainland.
Wheres the problem, where is the contradiction ??? Under your example the boat would have to head for France FFS.
Just because you boys tie yourselves up in all sorts of verbal knots just to deny the existence of a place doesn't mean everyone else has to.
we'll agree to disagree Delboy because if we go by the letter of the law it is owned by the Queen who is the head of the UK state. 'Northern Ireland' doesn't own anything. It may govern it on certain laws, we can agree on that but it is owned by the UK.
Quote from: Banana Man on July 06, 2010, 02:20:16 PM
we'll agree to disagree Delboy because if we go by the letter of the law it is owned by the Queen who is the head of the UK state. 'Northern Ireland' doesn't own anything. It may govern it on certain laws, we can agree on that but it is owned by the UK.
Im at a loss to see how this highlights my supposed contradiction.
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PM
The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact. Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse. It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U. Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk. The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?
The lesson? A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes. As part of the UK, we enjoy more or less all the freedoms that we could hope for in a free society. Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.
Let's face it, the SDLP and SF are sitting up in Stormont helping to administer the rule of the United Kingdom as part of a devolved government with few real competences. With little prospect of change on the constitutional front, surely it's about time we grew up and engaged with the real left-right, liberal-conservative, Keynsian v Monetarist politics of the age. I am of course conscious of how much easier that is to state than to inculcate. In conclusion, the lessons that I've learned as a young GAA-playing man from the Catholic community having studied and worked abroad lead me to the conclusion that when John Hume once spoke of entering a post-Nationalist era, people like myself back then should not have mocked him so.
Regardless of rhetoric (btw your example isn't rhetoric) and made in the moment quotes the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Much of what we now debate as irish political history is being written as we speak it but not quoted accuratly but deliberatly mis interpreted in order to gain political advantage of today regardless to the cost of the historical record. The documented history of the north i read about in the daily papers and hear about in the news is the record. It is a very different record from what i lived and live. Cowen and Brown are not spokespersons for the people of the north yet they create the official history as did their predessors and as will there successors. That is the failure of history and it is being repeated again.
When Hume spoke of what he did i was already post -nationalist. the problem with what said Hume was that the post Nationalism he talked about was new unionism.
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 02:12:54 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on July 06, 2010, 02:05:44 PM
My point is you refer to England, Scotland and Wales as the UK mainland, so how can you stand on Rathlin Island, which whether we like it or not is under the jurisdiction of the UK and talkabout the north of Ireland (Northern Ireland) being the mainland, that totally contradicts your point - that's the issue
No it doesn't rathlin is owned and under the jurisdication of northern ireland therefore the mainland is Northern Ireland.
Northern ireland is under the jurisdication of the UK the largest peice of which is to the right of us, that is the United Kingdom mainland.
The UK is part of the jurisdication of the EU the largest peice of which is to the right of them and is known as the european mainland.
Wheres the problem, where is the contradiction ??? Under your example the boat would have to head for France FFS.
Just because you boys tie yourselves up in all sorts of verbal knots just to deny the existence of a place doesn't mean everyone else has to.
the double standards in action !!
when its in reference to island of britain thats fine
but geographically there is only one 'mainland' and that is europe.
there is no 'mainland' Ireland or britain because they are islands !
where is this northern ireland 'mainland' by the way !!
as for what the english politicians said - well google this yourself, you wont believe anything I put up !
by ignoring historical precedent and what has been said/promised in the past - you show your closed mindedness !
your grasp on economics aint up to much either ! Mine does alright most days !!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 02:12:54 PM
Quote from: Banana Man on July 06, 2010, 02:05:44 PM
My point is you refer to England, Scotland and Wales as the UK mainland, so how can you stand on Rathlin Island, which whether we like it or not is under the jurisdiction of the UK and talkabout the north of Ireland (Northern Ireland) being the mainland, that totally contradicts your point - that's the issue
No it doesn't rathlin is owned and under the jurisdication of northern ireland therefore the mainland is Northern Ireland.
Northern ireland is under the jurisdication of the UK the largest peice of which is to the right of us, that is the United Kingdom mainland.
The UK is part of the jurisdication of the EU the largest peice of which is to the right of them and is known as the european mainland.
Wheres the problem, where is the contradiction ??? Under your example the boat would have to head for France FFS.
Just because you boys tie yourselves up in all sorts of verbal knots just to deny the existence of a place doesn't mean everyone else has to.
the double standards in action !!
when its in reference to island of britain thats fine
but geographically there is only one 'mainland' and that is europe.
there is no 'mainland' Ireland or britain because they are islands !
where is this northern ireland 'mainland' by the way !!
as for what the english politicians said - well google this yourself, you wont believe anything I put up !
by ignoring historical precedent and what has been said/promised in the past - you show your closed mindedness !
your grasp on economics aint up to much either ! Mine does alright most days !!
So only something that is a continent or larger is a mainland, if thats the paradigm you have to use merely to deny the existence of northern ireland good for you.
The northern ireland mainland that would be the chunk of land you would see nearest to you if you were sitting on rathlin, do try to keep up.
Why should i do the work to verify claims that you make, you made them you back them up, a simple link to a reputable website with said remarks will suffice.
What historical precedent have i ignored, i can't be expected to know the convoluted ramblings of your brain box, you'll have to let me in on the secret.
Despite the the evidence of the entirely pathetic peace dividend you still delude yourself that the americans, europeans and UK are going to bank roll your UI, whatever makes you happy, i prefer to live in the real world. Also praising your own economic accumen is a bit naff, self praise is no praise.
BTW any chance of you backing up your other claim and showing me where i've been bigotted ::)
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 03:19:49 PM
No it doesn't rathlin is owned and under the jurisdication of northern ireland therefore the mainland is Northern Ireland.
Northern ireland is under the jurisdication of the UK the largest peice of which is to the right of us, that is the United Kingdom mainland.
The UK is part of the jurisdication of the EU the largest peice of which is to the right of them and is known as the european mainland.
Wheres the problem, where is the contradiction ??? Under your example the boat would have to head for France FFS.
Just because you boys tie yourselves up in all sorts of verbal knots just to deny the existence of a place doesn't mean everyone else has to.
the double standards in action !!
when its in reference to island of britain thats fine
but geographically there is only one 'mainland' and that is europe.
there is no 'mainland' Ireland or britain because they are islands !
where is this northern ireland 'mainland' by the way !!
as for what the english politicians said - well google this yourself, you wont believe anything I put up !
by ignoring historical precedent and what has been said/promised in the past - you show your closed mindedness !
your grasp on economics aint up to much either ! Mine does alright most days !!
[/quote]
So only something that is a continent or larger is a mainland, if thats the paradigm you have to use merely to deny the existence of northern ireland good for you.
The northern ireland mainland that would be the chunk of land you would see nearest to you if you were sitting on rathlin, do try to keep up.
Why should i do the work to verify claims that you make, you made them you back them up, a simple link to a reputable website with said remarks will suffice.
What historical precedent have i ignored, i can't be expected to know the convoluted ramblings of your brain box, you'll have to let me in on the secret.
Despite the the evidence of the entirely pathetic peace dividend you still delude yourself that the americans, europeans and UK are going to bank roll your UI, whatever makes you happy, i prefer to live in the real world. Also praising your own economic accumen is a bit naff, self praise is no praise.
BTW any chance of you backing up your other claim and showing me where i've been bigotted ::)
[/quote]
a 'mainland' in that context is an ENTIRE island - get over your bigotry self !!
go google yourself, there are certain things you will hear in news over your lifetime - eg tiger woods has had an affair - where did I hear that (ok not from woods himself) but in the media- papers and tv etc - I know if I googled it , I would find something at some stage.
so go check it out yourself !
A source that is not open to you is Irish minister of finance Brian lenihan, who said the same thing to me a few months ago after talking to british politicians ! He and I were both in agreement that we didnt want you (citizens of the north of Ireland) , certainly not right now - though that kind of cuts against both our 'republican-esque' roots !!
for all the 'paradigms' (read this to mean you cannot win a debate in plain english so must resort to whimsy and daft jargon) you talk about, you are obviously not well enough up on the things you try to discuss in order to refutre or even now about them !
check up about american funding of places after wars etc...
google might work for you, if you have the head out of the sand long enough !!
Quote from: deiseach on July 06, 2010, 01:47:49 PM
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PMEven if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk.
+1
-1
Quote from: Ulick on July 06, 2010, 03:36:00 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 06, 2010, 01:47:49 PM
Quote from: Harps 21 on July 05, 2010, 10:08:50 PMEven if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk.
+1
-1
-2
Why? What would be the point? Surely a UI would have to accomodate their concerns? Rightly or wrongly you can stick a UI up your arse if you think it would be established along the lines of the current failed state were one section ruled the other section.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 03:19:49 PM
for all the 'paradigms' (read this to mean you cannot win a debate in plain english so must resort to whimsy and daft jargon)
::) ::) ::)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
a 'mainland' in that context is an ENTIRE island - get over your bigotry self !!
I don't even know what thats supposed to mean but thats your supposed justification for calling me a bigot ???
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
go google yourself, there are certain things you will hear in news over your lifetime - eg tiger woods has had an affair - where did I hear that (ok not from woods himself) but in the media- papers and tv etc - I know if I googled it , I would find something at some stage.
so go check it out yourself !
A source that is not open to you is Irish minister of finance Brian lenihan, who said the same thing to me a few months ago after talking to british politicians ! He and I were both in agreement that we didnt want you (citizens of the north of Ireland) , certainly not right now - though that kind of cuts against both our 'republican-esque' roots !!
I refer you back to my previous post, you make a claim you back it up with credible sources otherwise its just a lot of hot air, to expect the person you are debating with to chase up your souces for you is laughable. Yeah lets throw all the conventions of debating out of the window so that Lynchboy can go on making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PMfor all the 'paradigms' (read this to mean you cannot win a debate in plain english so must resort to whimsy and daft jargon) you talk about, you are obviously not well enough up on the things you try to discuss in order to refutre or even now about them !
I think its you that is flying in the face of conventions, surely the above is a piss take, are you really suggesting I have lost the debate because i have used the word paradigm, which in your eyes is jargon despite it being neither specialised/technical or vague. Im not going to apologise for using a word in a perfectable good way to illisustrate a point, a paradigm is a mindset that affects how a group/community view a situation or reality, by its definition is also suggests that others may not choose to share that mindset or view of situation or reality.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
check up about american funding of places after wars etc...
google might work for you, if you have the head out of the sand long enough !!
I refer you back to the other post again you make a claim back it up, for whats its worth the examples you gave are of countries the yanks were at war with (germany, Japan, Vietnam, Grenada), i know private american individuals donated money to the IRA etc but im not sure that could be regarded as a declaration of war. You claim i have my head in the sand but im pretty sure i know where yours is ;D
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 06, 2010, 11:51:10 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on July 05, 2010, 08:59:18 AM
No doubt the village was Moneyslane....
The flag of old South africa would have been up to commerate those 'brave gunrunners' who supplied the weapons to the chosen race here. A lot of loyalist guns came in from there, suppose it's a nod to them
Indeed it is. Just passed thru on the way to Castlewellan and it is sporting all the favourites - the old SA flag, Israeli flag plus the usual suspects.
On the way back I noticed that they, bizarrely, have a Gibraltar fleg up too. Strange wee place.
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 04:49:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
a 'mainland' in that context is an ENTIRE island - get over your bigotry self !!
I don't even know what thats supposed to mean but thats your supposed justification for calling me a bigot ???
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
go google yourself, there are certain things you will hear in news over your lifetime - eg tiger woods has had an affair - where did I hear that (ok not from woods himself) but in the media- papers and tv etc - I know if I googled it , I would find something at some stage.
so go check it out yourself !
A source that is not open to you is Irish minister of finance Brian lenihan, who said the same thing to me a few months ago after talking to british politicians ! He and I were both in agreement that we didnt want you (citizens of the north of Ireland) , certainly not right now - though that kind of cuts against both our 'republican-esque' roots !!
I refer you back to my previous post, you make a claim you back it up with credible sources otherwise its just a lot of hot air, to expect the person you are debating with to chase up your souces for you is laughable. Yeah lets throw all the conventions of debating out of the window so that Lynchboy can go on making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PMfor all the 'paradigms' (read this to mean you cannot win a debate in plain english so must resort to whimsy and daft jargon) you talk about, you are obviously not well enough up on the things you try to discuss in order to refutre or even now about them !
I think its you that is flying in the face of conventions, surely the above is a piss take, are you really suggesting I have lost the debate because i have used the word paradigm, which in your eyes is jargon despite it being neither specialised/technical or vague. Im not going to apologise for using a word in a perfectable good way to illisustrate a point, a paradigm is a mindset that affects how a group/community view a situation or reality, by its definition is also suggests that others may not choose to share that mindset or view of situation or reality.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
check up about american funding of places after wars etc...
google might work for you, if you have the head out of the sand long enough !!
I refer you back to the other post again you make a claim back it up, for whats its worth the examples you gave are of countries the yanks were at war with (germany, Japan, Vietnam, Grenada), i know private american individuals donated money to the IRA etc but im not sure that could be regarded as a declaration of war. You claim i have my head in the sand but im pretty sure i know where yours is ;D
so you accept that you are incorrect regarding yur usage of 'mainland' then !
why dont you ask Canalman (on the other thread -you started) to back up where he gets his 'notion' regarding what cameron said...I am pretty sure it was reported in some thread on here also around then...
well you take your head out of the sane only to insert it up yer posterior- not an iota of understanding for previous historical and political let alone financial precedent do you have !
it will hit and hurt you far harder when the time comes I 'd say !
Lynchboy I wouldn't bother with the man, his mainland theory is proven wrong, say no more, do what i do and agree to disagree, you'll never change his paradigm ;)
Quote from: Banana Man on July 06, 2010, 05:18:12 PM
Lynchboy I wouldn't bother with the man, his mainland theory is proven wrong, say no more, do what i do and agree to disagree, you'll never change his paradigm ;)
What passes for proof around here is pretty tenuous it would seem.
QuoteLynchboy I wouldn't bother with the man, his mainland theory is proven wrong, say no more, do what i do and agree to disagree, you'll never change his paradigm
What passes for proof around here is pretty tenuous it would seem.
Well it worked for Widgery.....
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 06, 2010, 05:00:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 06, 2010, 11:51:10 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on July 05, 2010, 08:59:18 AM
No doubt the village was Moneyslane....
The flag of old South africa would have been up to commerate those 'brave gunrunners' who supplied the weapons to the chosen race here. A lot of loyalist guns came in from there, suppose it's a nod to them
Indeed it is. Just passed thru on the way to Castlewellan and it is sporting all the favourites - the old SA flag, Israeli flag plus the usual suspects.
On the way back I noticed that they, bizarrely, have a Gibraltar fleg up too. Strange wee place.
How on earth does the OO intend on marketing this shite as a 'cultural' event and a 'tourist attraction' when it has the likes of Israeli flags and the old SA flag flying! :o ???
The ignorance and utter stupidity within Loyalism knows no bounds!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: delboy on July 06, 2010, 04:49:11 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
a 'mainland' in that context is an ENTIRE island - get over your bigotry self !!
I don't even know what thats supposed to mean but thats your supposed justification for calling me a bigot ???
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
go google yourself, there are certain things you will hear in news over your lifetime - eg tiger woods has had an affair - where did I hear that (ok not from woods himself) but in the media- papers and tv etc - I know if I googled it , I would find something at some stage.
so go check it out yourself !
A source that is not open to you is Irish minister of finance Brian lenihan, who said the same thing to me a few months ago after talking to british politicians ! He and I were both in agreement that we didnt want you (citizens of the north of Ireland) , certainly not right now - though that kind of cuts against both our 'republican-esque' roots !!
I refer you back to my previous post, you make a claim you back it up with credible sources otherwise its just a lot of hot air, to expect the person you are debating with to chase up your souces for you is laughable. Yeah lets throw all the conventions of debating out of the window so that Lynchboy can go on making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PMfor all the 'paradigms' (read this to mean you cannot win a debate in plain english so must resort to whimsy and daft jargon) you talk about, you are obviously not well enough up on the things you try to discuss in order to refutre or even now about them !
I think its you that is flying in the face of conventions, surely the above is a piss take, are you really suggesting I have lost the debate because i have used the word paradigm, which in your eyes is jargon despite it being neither specialised/technical or vague. Im not going to apologise for using a word in a perfectable good way to illisustrate a point, a paradigm is a mindset that affects how a group/community view a situation or reality, by its definition is also suggests that others may not choose to share that mindset or view of situation or reality.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 03:33:48 PM
check up about american funding of places after wars etc...
google might work for you, if you have the head out of the sand long enough !!
I refer you back to the other post again you make a claim back it up, for whats its worth the examples you gave are of countries the yanks were at war with (germany, Japan, Vietnam, Grenada), i know private american individuals donated money to the IRA etc but im not sure that could be regarded as a declaration of war. You claim i have my head in the sand but im pretty sure i know where yours is ;D
so you accept that you are incorrect regarding yur usage of 'mainland' then !
why dont you ask Canalman (on the other thread -you started) to back up where he gets his 'notion' regarding what cameron said...I am pretty sure it was reported in some thread on here also around then...
well you take your head out of the sane only to insert it up yer posterior- not an iota of understanding for previous historical and political let alone financial precedent do you have !
it will hit and hurt you far harder when the time comes I 'd say !
Nope i don't accept that im incorrect in my usage of the mainland, and i don't see how you manage to come to that conclusion, nor do i agree with your assertion that im a bigot or to think of that mainland in any other terms than the ones you use is is bigoted, its amazing what sort of personal abuses getting thrown about here just because you happen to have a different viewpoint from republicans.
Im almost certain i know what you are trying to refer to even though its obvious you don't, hence why no examples were ever given just ill informed bluff and bluster as usual. Cameron singled out NI as an example of a region of the UK that had an over reliance on the public sector (along with the NE of england as well) if thats amounts to wanting to ditch NI as you seem to believe is the case that begs the question who is he going to give the NE of england to ???
When you start listing comparable and crediable historical and finicial precedents that actually back up your assertions i'll start taking you drivelling more serious.
Quote from: Banana Man on July 06, 2010, 05:36:59 PM
QuoteLynchboy I wouldn't bother with the man, his mainland theory is proven wrong, say no more, do what i do and agree to disagree, you'll never change his paradigm
What passes for proof around here is pretty tenuous it would seem.
Well it worked for Widgery.....
And your point is what exactly?
Quote from: Banana Man on July 06, 2010, 05:18:12 PM
Lynchboy I wouldn't bother with the man, his mainland theory is proven wrong, say no more, do what i do and agree to disagree, you'll never change his paradigm ;)
BTW didn't you get the memo from lynchboy apparently using the word paradigm or any other that he may have to look up is an automatical fail, thats a shame :( better luck next time.
If delboy wants to call england the mainland what do yous care? What does it matter?
I cringe when I hear people referring to the mainland, it's pathetic but sure if that's what he wants then let him.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 06, 2010, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 06, 2010, 05:00:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 06, 2010, 11:51:10 AM
Quote from: Banana Man on July 05, 2010, 08:59:18 AM
No doubt the village was Moneyslane....
The flag of old South africa would have been up to commerate those 'brave gunrunners' who supplied the weapons to the chosen race here. A lot of loyalist guns came in from there, suppose it's a nod to them
Indeed it is. Just passed thru on the way to Castlewellan and it is sporting all the favourites - the old SA flag, Israeli flag plus the usual suspects.
On the way back I noticed that they, bizarrely, have a Gibraltar fleg up too. Strange wee place.
How on earth does the OO intend on marketing this shite as a 'cultural' event and a 'tourist attraction' when it has the likes of Israeli flags and the old SA flag flying! :o ???
The ignorance and utter stupidity within Loyalism knows no bounds!
Reminds me of this old classic.....Nazi salutes over the Star of David flag :D :D :D :
(http://www.thejunglebhoys.net/jb/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/rangers_nazi_salute_israel_2.jpg)
Quote from: Ulick on July 06, 2010, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:43:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.
Rubbish:
- Farrandeelin is correct the 6 counties is not part of Britain.
- Britain was created with the Act of Union in 1707. North America was settled in the 16th century (belfore Britain was created), therefore the British could not have been in Ireland longer than they have been in North America as the "British" only came into being after both were "settled".
The settling of America began in the early 17th century. The plantation of Ulster started in the early 17th century also. Both these events happened before the state known as 'Britain' was created, but so what? The British presence in Ulster - contrary to what republicans would tell you - is not a government or a state or an army. It is the hundreds of thousands of people who trace their ancestry back to England, Scotland and Wales and who feel an allegiance with those places as a result. I repeat, since these people have been in Ulster for as long as the white settlers have been in North America, they have as much claim to the territory here as do the descendants of the white settlers in the USA.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 06, 2010, 06:19:20 PM
If delboy wants to call england the mainland what do yous care? What does it matter?
I cringe when I hear people referring to the mainland, it's pathetic but sure if that's what he wants then let him.
Well said, i find it slightly pathetic that someone should cringe at another person referring to the mainland, but as POG say thats there business, i certainly wouldn't label someone a bigot for doing so.
Sorry delboy , you will have to try harder!
I'm not making it up - sure even canalman on your other thread talks about Cameron and his admission about wanting to jettison the deadwood that is the north of Ireland - and it wasn't the comment from Cameron you hoped it was!
Furthermore politicians before that in England have said the same - from all parties..... But check it out with any normal English person - they don't want to be be wasting their taxes on keeping that dead duck afloat!! Maybe someday your bigoted blinkered view will slip and allow you to see the reality!! :)
Being a bit mischevious when I say you are a bigot - it's just your views are bigoted and are the usual blinkered types trotted out by the unionist/loyalist dup et al bigots!
Nothing to do with my pedantically pointing out that the actual mainland is the European continent land mass itself!
But best ofl luck in that cocoon surrounded by sand!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 07:09:49 PM
Sorry delboy , you will have to try harder!
I'm not making it up - sure even canalman on your other thread talks about Cameron and his admission about wanting to jettison the deadwood that is the north of Ireland - and it wasn't the comment from Cameron you hoped it was!
Furthermore politicians before that in England have said the same - from all parties..... But check it out with any normal English person - they don't want to be be wasting their taxes on keeping that dead duck afloat!! Maybe someday your bigoted blinkered view will slip and allow you to see the reality!! :)
Trying to have a debate with you is damn hard work, im expected to do both sides of the work :P , give me a sporting chance and at least give me a link to this statement that cameron has made and i''ll try to address it, but expecting me to refute any and all statements that cameron has made pertaining to here on the off chance that i might hit upon the one you are talking about is more than can be expected of anyone surely. And no it isn't enough to say that thing that canalman said unless he give a link to this statement which if he has you can of course just copy and paste.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 07:15:52 PM
Being a bit mischevious when I say you are a bigot - it's just your views are bigoted and are the usual blinkered types trotted out by the unionist/loyalist dup et al bigots!
Nothing to do with my pedantically pointing out that the actual mainland is the European continent land mass itself!
But best ofl luck in that cocoon surrounded by sand!
Ah nice change of tactic straight out of the fundamentalist christian guidebook of how not to appear a hateful bollox, don't hate the person, hate the sin, i don't hate homosexuals i just hate those awful homesexual acts etc.
So im not a bigot i just think like one, and the difference is what exactly, to be honest your willingness to call people bigots for not agreeing with you says much more about you than it does me.
Jesus..... sorry for bringing up the whole mainland thing. Just a pet peeve of mine. Nothing more. Didn't expect it to get blown up like this!
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Ulick on July 06, 2010, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:43:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.
Rubbish:
- Farrandeelin is correct the 6 counties is not part of Britain.
- Britain was created with the Act of Union in 1707. North America was settled in the 16th century (belfore Britain was created), therefore the British could not have been in Ireland longer than they have been in North America as the "British" only came into being after both were "settled".
The settling of America began in the early 17th century. The plantation of Ulster started in the early 17th century also. Both these events happened before the state known as 'Britain' was created, but so what? The British presence in Ulster - contrary to what republicans would tell you - is not a government or a state or an army. It is the hundreds of thousands of people who trace their ancestry back to England, Scotland and Wales and who feel an allegiance with those places as a result. I repeat, since these people have been in Ulster for as long as the white settlers have been in North America, they have as much claim to the territory here as do the descendants of the white settlers in the USA.
More bullshit from your BP-sized leaking well of excrement ... at least the US government has gone some way to recognise the wrongs the settlers did to that land's native people (theft, ethnic cleansing, genocide, famine), unlike the English and the wrongs their planters did to this land's native people (theft, ethnic cleansing, genocide, famine) ... but sure what else would you expect from those lovely people who introduced the world to the lovely concept of the concentration camp?
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Ulick on July 06, 2010, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:43:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.
Rubbish:
- Farrandeelin is correct the 6 counties is not part of Britain.
- Britain was created with the Act of Union in 1707. North America was settled in the 16th century (belfore Britain was created), therefore the British could not have been in Ireland longer than they have been in North America as the "British" only came into being after both were "settled".
The settling of America began in the early 17th century. The plantation of Ulster started in the early 17th century also. Both these events happened before the state known as 'Britain' was created, but so what? The British presence in Ulster - contrary to what republicans would tell you - is not a government or a state or an army. It is the hundreds of thousands of people who trace their ancestry back to England, Scotland and Wales and who feel an allegiance with those places as a result. I repeat, since these people have been in Ulster for as long as the white settlers have been in North America, they have as much claim to the territory here as do the descendants of the white settlers in the USA.
More bullshit from your BP-sized leaking well of excrement ... at least the US government has gone some way to recognise the wrongs the settlers did to that land's native people (theft, ethnic cleansing, genocide, famine), unlike the English and the wrongs their planters did to this land's native people (theft, ethnic cleansing, genocide, famine) ... but sure what else would you expect from those lovely people who introduced the world to the lovely concept of the concentration camp?
You looking for a claim?
Some of this 'mainland' discussion is ridiculous. The term can refer to "a large landmass in a region (as contrasted with a nearby island or islands), or to the largest of a group of islands in an archipelago" or "a particular landmass as viewed from a nearby island with which it has close links".
If used as a geographical team, it's quite accurate that Britain could be a mainland from Ireland (and not just N Ireland). Similarly, Ireland (and not just N Ireland) would be the mainland for Rathlin.
There's no reason to get overly sensitive about it.
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Ulick on July 06, 2010, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:43:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.
Rubbish:
- Farrandeelin is correct the 6 counties is not part of Britain.
- Britain was created with the Act of Union in 1707. North America was settled in the 16th century (belfore Britain was created), therefore the British could not have been in Ireland longer than they have been in North America as the "British" only came into being after both were "settled".
The settling of America began in the early 17th century. The plantation of Ulster started in the early 17th century also. Both these events happened before the state known as 'Britain' was created, but so what? The British presence in Ulster - contrary to what republicans would tell you - is not a government or a state or an army. It is the hundreds of thousands of people who trace their ancestry back to England, Scotland and Wales and who feel an allegiance with those places as a result. I repeat, since these people have been in Ulster for as long as the white settlers have been in North America, they have as much claim to the territory here as do the descendants of the white settlers in the USA.
More bullshit from your BP-sized leaking well of excrement ... at least the US government has gone some way to recognise the wrongs the settlers did to that land's native people (theft, ethnic cleansing, genocide, famine), unlike the English and the wrongs their planters did to this land's native people (theft, ethnic cleansing, genocide, famine) ... but sure what else would you expect from those lovely people who introduced the world to the lovely concept of the concentration camp?
But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they, so what's your point?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 06, 2010, 07:15:52 PM
Being a bit mischevious when I say you are a bigot - it's just your views are bigoted and are the usual blinkered types trotted out by the unionist/loyalist dup et al bigots!
Nothing to do with my pedantically pointing out that the actual mainland is the European continent land mass itself!
But best ofl luck in that cocoon surrounded by sand!
??
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 09:44:13 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 08:03:38 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Ulick on July 06, 2010, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:43:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.
Rubbish:
- Farrandeelin is correct the 6 counties is not part of Britain.
- Britain was created with the Act of Union in 1707. North America was settled in the 16th century (belfore Britain was created), therefore the British could not have been in Ireland longer than they have been in North America as the "British" only came into being after both were "settled".
The settling of America began in the early 17th century. The plantation of Ulster started in the early 17th century also. Both these events happened before the state known as 'Britain' was created, but so what? The British presence in Ulster - contrary to what republicans would tell you - is not a government or a state or an army. It is the hundreds of thousands of people who trace their ancestry back to England, Scotland and Wales and who feel an allegiance with those places as a result. I repeat, since these people have been in Ulster for as long as the white settlers have been in North America, they have as much claim to the territory here as do the descendants of the white settlers in the USA.
More bullshit from your BP-sized leaking well of excrement ... at least the US government has gone some way to recognise the wrongs the settlers did to that land's native people (theft, ethnic cleansing, genocide, famine), unlike the English and the wrongs their planters did to this land's native people (theft, ethnic cleansing, genocide, famine) ... but sure what else would you expect from those lovely people who introduced the world to the lovely concept of the concentration camp?
But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they, so what's your point?
While your point is valid, there is also the obvious difference that native americans don't make up half the population of the U.S.
'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they, so what's your point?'
No? What about the 58 million acres of land in North America stipulated as reservations/tribal land? What's your point, apart from poisoning every thread on the board (apart from the GAA ones, obviously)?
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 10:21:08 PM
'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they, so what's your point?'
No? What about the 58 million acres of land in North America stipulated as reservations/tribal land? What's your point, apart from poisoning every thread on the board (apart from the GAA ones, obviously)?
You think the reservations and tribal lands are a good deal for Native Americans? You obviously know as little about that situation as you do about politics here.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 10:30:46 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 10:21:08 PM
'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they, so what's your point?'
No? What about the 58 million acres of land in North America stipulated as reservations/tribal land? What's your point, apart from poisoning every thread on the board (apart from the GAA ones, obviously)?
You think the reservations and tribal lands are a good deal for Native Americans? You obviously know as little about that situation as you do about politics here.
No, but that wasn't the question, the question was 'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they?', which I answered. You just revert to type by throwing in more shite when you're proved wrong ... there are house flies that talk more sense about politics than revisionist nobends like you
Quote from: Lar Naparka on July 04, 2010, 11:57:31 AM
In August 20008 a thread was started on this board in connection with the Warrenpoint ambush and more specifically, the celebrations to mark its anniversary by a republican splinter group. (I don't now recall its name.)
Many of the board members here will remember that the exchanges across the political divide grew a bit heated before Mod 1 stepped in and closed down the thread.
But, just before Mod1 intervened, a spin off thread to discuss the history of Northern Ireland was started.
Wiser counsel, IMO, prevailed and this thread was aborted. Feelings on both sides were running high and in the wake of the mod's intervention on the Warrenpoint thread, the likelihood was that he'd do the same with this one.
I am proposing that the subject in question should be brought up again, now that passions on both sides ought to have cooled down somewhat.
Is this the thread you wanted?
Was out in Rapa Nui/Easter Island a few years back, and they have the same "mainland" problem.
Chileans that have settled and stole land there, like to refer to Chile as the mainland, and the natives get really pissed off with the reference.
Personally for me, I detest the reference to England as the "mainland". People who tend to use the term usually refer to catholics as Roman catholics, and Derry as L......derry.
Quote from: give her dixie on July 07, 2010, 12:05:13 AM
Was out in Rapa Nui/Easter Island a few years back, and they have the same "mainland" problem.
Chileans that have settled and stole land there, like to refer to Chile as the mainland, and the natives get really pissed off with the reference.
Personally for me, I detest the reference to England as the "mainland". People who tend to use the term usually refer to catholics as Roman catholics, and Derry as L......derry.
I honestly think the term is often used as a joke or with the intent of getting a reaction. I don't think it's a term used casually. I would use it myself in sarcasm. With that in mind it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Ulick on July 06, 2010, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:43:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.
Rubbish:
- Farrandeelin is correct the 6 counties is not part of Britain.
- Britain was created with the Act of Union in 1707. North America was settled in the 16th century (belfore Britain was created), therefore the British could not have been in Ireland longer than they have been in North America as the "British" only came into being after both were "settled".
The settling of America began in the early 17th century. The plantation of Ulster started in the early 17th century also. Both these events happened before the state known as 'Britain' was created, but so what? The British presence in Ulster - contrary to what republicans would tell you - is not a government or a state or an army. It is the hundreds of thousands of people who trace their ancestry back to England, Scotland and Wales and who feel an allegiance with those places as a result. I repeat, since these people have been in Ulster for as long as the white settlers have been in North America, they have as much claim to the territory here as do the descendants of the white settlers in the USA.
So what? It was you who made the comparison not me. I'm just pointing out that you are wrong.
Quote from: charlieTully on July 05, 2010, 05:58:33 PM
i thrive on my hatred of unionism and hunnery and make no apologies for it. get yourselves down to ardoyne on tuesday, all hands on deck. T.A.L
will they be able to get a crowd this time as they had to call off their protest at the tour as they couldn't muster enough people.
Two bald men fighting over a comb springs to mind.
Quote from: glens abu on July 07, 2010, 09:00:01 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on July 05, 2010, 05:58:33 PM
i thrive on my hatred of unionism and hunnery and make no apologies for it. get yourselves down to ardoyne on tuesday, all hands on deck. T.A.L
will they be able to get a crowd this time as they had to call off their protest at the tour as they couldn't muster enough people.
The World Cup is on, don't expect too much in the way of community activism. Maybe next week. Unless it rains.
Quote from: Zapatista on July 06, 2010, 11:51:34 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on July 04, 2010, 11:57:31 AM
In August 20008 a thread was started on this board in connection with the Warrenpoint ambush and more specifically, the celebrations to mark its anniversary by a republican splinter group. (I don't now recall its name.)
Many of the board members here will remember that the exchanges across the political divide grew a bit heated before Mod 1 stepped in and closed down the thread.
But, just before Mod1 intervened, a spin off thread to discuss the history of Northern Ireland was started.
Wiser counsel, IMO, prevailed and this thread was aborted. Feelings on both sides were running high and in the wake of the mod's intervention on the Warrenpoint thread, the likelihood was that he'd do the same with this one.
I am proposing that the subject in question should be brought up again, now that passions on both sides ought to have cooled down somewhat.
Is this the thread you wanted?
Not quite. ;D
However, it's a case of making do with what you've got and I've enjoyed the craic so far as the Battle of The Boyne is re-enacted one more effin' time! ;D
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 11:27:44 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 10:30:46 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 10:21:08 PM
'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they, so what's your point?'
No? What about the 58 million acres of land in North America stipulated as reservations/tribal land? What's your point, apart from poisoning every thread on the board (apart from the GAA ones, obviously)?
You think the reservations and tribal lands are a good deal for Native Americans? You obviously know as little about that situation as you do about politics here.
No, but that wasn't the question, the question was 'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they?', which I answered. You just revert to type by throwing in more shite when you're proved wrong ... there are house flies that talk more sense about politics than revisionist nobends like you
They haven't given them back the land they took from them. In some cases, the reservations are far away from their ancient homelands. In addition, the total land given over to the Native American peoples amounts to about 3% of the total available territory. Hardly a fair shake is it. But at least they're doing something, eh?
Quote from: Ulick on July 07, 2010, 07:51:54 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: Ulick on July 06, 2010, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 06:43:56 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 05, 2010, 10:28:53 PM
I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.
The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.
Rubbish:
- Farrandeelin is correct the 6 counties is not part of Britain.
- Britain was created with the Act of Union in 1707. North America was settled in the 16th century (belfore Britain was created), therefore the British could not have been in Ireland longer than they have been in North America as the "British" only came into being after both were "settled".
The settling of America began in the early 17th century. The plantation of Ulster started in the early 17th century also. Both these events happened before the state known as 'Britain' was created, but so what? The British presence in Ulster - contrary to what republicans would tell you - is not a government or a state or an army. It is the hundreds of thousands of people who trace their ancestry back to England, Scotland and Wales and who feel an allegiance with those places as a result. I repeat, since these people have been in Ulster for as long as the white settlers have been in North America, they have as much claim to the territory here as do the descendants of the white settlers in the USA.
So what? It was you who made the comparison not me. I'm just pointing out that you are wrong.
And I was just pointing out that, in fact, it was you who'd got your facts wrong.
Quote from: glens abu on July 07, 2010, 09:00:01 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on July 05, 2010, 05:58:33 PM
i thrive on my hatred of unionism and hunnery and make no apologies for it. get yourselves down to ardoyne on tuesday, all hands on deck. T.A.L
will they be able to get a crowd this time as they had to call off their protest at the tour as they couldn't muster enough people.
sure the tour was not granted permission to parade through, what would be the point in a protest where no parade is passing.
Quote from: orange2009 on July 04, 2010, 10:01:46 PM
This is a bit off topic but I was driving through a village today between Castlewellan and Banbridge, its name now excapes me. I would never comment publicly or otherwise about the parades and 12th July as if thats Protestant culture then so be it. But I was completely astounded today when I saw this flag below among all the other decorations flags etc:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Flag_of_South_Africa_1928-1994.svg/200px-Flag_of_South_Africa_1928-1994.svg.png)
Dear God this is the flag of Apartheid South Africa. Now I can look over the Israeli flags and UDA ones etc, but what in Gods name can they associate with the one of the most vicious regimes in history. I have to say it just completely astounded me. I wouldnt see myself as a bigoted person in as much as I have Protestant friends and all, but just cant see how people one, could put it up, then other right minded people could let it stay there.
I dont want this post to sound offensive, and dont want to tar everyone with the same brush, but I'm just dumbfounded by it!
Could just be some thick b**tard attracted by the orange-white-blue background - which was the actually original flag of the Netherlands under the House of Orange (the Prinsenvlag). (Though it had been replaced by the red-white-blue modern version even by the time of William III). Maybe with the added attraction of a union flag on it.
Hopefully that's it, anyway, rather than a thicker b**tard actually expressing some sort of sympathy with the apartheid system.
J's, I'm exhausted reading thru all this mainland BS (sorry lads, "discussion") - I thought the title of the thread was interesting and had promise, but it seems to have gotten bogged down in a ton of tit-for-tat meaningless hot air (sorry again lads) - Regretably that's also just about the standard of political and social interaction and discussion in the North today (if there is any at all) - Both sides are so entrenched with their respective opinions as to who is right and who is wrong, who f--ked who the most and when, etc etc - All negative energy directed at eachother and achieving nothing but deeper resentment and reinforcing already entrenched opinions - Looks dire! - However I believe there is serious hope for the wee 6, or whatever you want to call it and that is based on the likes of the recent announcement of the ESB buying out the NI Electricity board - I see transactions such as this as the cure for the area for this reason - When the Loyalist strikes were on, the main source of their clout was the ability to control the electric supply - Under new ownership from the likes of the ESB, striking employees would be fired if they engaged in similar action today - Over time with economic buyouts, mergers etc historic financial power blocks such as the electricity workers, with their Unionist allegiances, will loose their power - When the sectarian power blocks are neutered, then reasonable political and social dialogue can take place, and although it won't be in our generation and probably not the next either, a time will come when life in the north will not be dominated by green and orange, as it is today.
Spain v Holland
Taigs v Huns
12th July.
Winner should take all. Holland win and the taigs head south. Spain win and the Huns get on the ferry.
Only fair.
Quote from: charlieTully on July 07, 2010, 10:53:14 PM
Quote from: glens abu on July 07, 2010, 09:00:01 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on July 05, 2010, 05:58:33 PM
i thrive on my hatred of unionism and hunnery and make no apologies for it. get yourselves down to ardoyne on tuesday, all hands on deck. T.A.L
will they be able to get a crowd this time as they had to call off their protest at the tour as they couldn't muster enough people.
sure the tour was not granted permission to parade through, what would be the point in a protest where no parade is passing.
plenty of other flashpoints other than the shops but they couldn't get a crowd,maybe it was the world cup keep all those great Republicans in the house or the club.
I think I'm the only taig supporting Holland
Ha ha no, Germany is at least 50/50 Zap
Quote from: ballela-angel on July 08, 2010, 02:59:20 AM
J's, I'm exhausted reading thru all this mainland BS (sorry lads, "discussion") - I thought the title of the thread was interesting and had promise, but it seems to have gotten bogged down in a ton of tit-for-tat meaningless hot air (sorry again lads) - Regretably that's also just about the standard of political and social interaction and discussion in the North today (if there is any at all) - Both sides are so entrenched with their respective opinions as to who is right and who is wrong, who f--ked who the most and when, etc etc - All negative energy directed at eachother and achieving nothing but deeper resentment and reinforcing already entrenched opinions - Looks dire! - However I believe there is serious hope for the wee 6, or whatever you want to call it and that is based on the likes of the recent announcement of the ESB buying out the NI Electricity board - I see transactions such as this as the cure for the area for this reason - When the Loyalist strikes were on, the main source of their clout was the ability to control the electric supply - Under new ownership from the likes of the ESB, striking employees would be fired if they engaged in similar action today - Over time with economic buyouts, mergers etc historic financial power blocks such as the electricity workers, with their Unionist allegiances, will loose their power - When the sectarian power blocks are neutered, then reasonable political and social dialogue can take place, and although it won't be in our generation and probably not the next either, a time will come when life in the north will not be dominated by green and orange, as it is today.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with everything you say! (write?)
It's a great pity that the discussion, so far anyway, has never really got going and seems likely to go the way of so many other threads that dealt with the same or related subjects.
Back in '69 as the Troubles were beginning, I had a chat with an elderly Unionist friend. Extremists on both sides, as he put it, were galloping towards their own destruction. If they fought their way to a standstill,, they were in for a very nasty surprise; they were going to find they had precious little left to stand on.
As they continued with their bombings and tit-for-tat killings, international financiers were watching events closely.
He felt multinational concerns were moving in quietly already and buying up city centre and other strategically located properties at knockdown prices. They would have the financial resources to sit on their new acquisitions until peace returned, as it inevitably would. Then, as he put it, the paramilitaries would find that, "They had bombed their children's futures down the Lagan."
Before he finished his rant, he had a cut at the "propertied classes" of both sides in NI and he had no time whatsoever for HMG.
The former he claimed were intent on stirring up sectarian tensions as this served to keep their employees' minds diverted from their low pay and substandard living conditions. He trusted the latter about as much as he'd trust a Taig with a sub machine gun. (This was in jest, BTW, as we were both half cut at the time!)
When the Black and Tans razed the centre of Cork City, the Unionist community were hardest hit. HMG would cheerfully do the same to the centre of Belfast and every other town in NI if it best suited their interests.
He aimed his parting shot at De Valera and his UI bandwagon.
Just as James Craig and his associates abandoned the Unionists in the new Free State, Dev and his crowd didn't spare a thought for the plight of Nationalists marooned in NI. During the 1940s, he showed he was quite prepared to hang any of his former IRA associates who decided to do what he had long preached—take over NI by force of arms. Like Craig, he was determined to concentrate power in the hands of a select few and would stop at nothing in order to do so. The people of NI were going to have to look within themselves for a solution to their problems.
That was the first grounding I received in NI politics and the lessons to be learned from its (then) recent history. Stanley Britten, the old man in question has long since gone to his eternal reward but, 40 years on, should he be regarded as a prophet or merely a piss artist?
On the road to Garvagh, just outside Kilrea, there is a very small loyalist housing estate/row. The goons fly Croatian flags. Now if ever there was a Catholic country it is this one. They are extremely devout. Re. the Apartheid flag, the galloots that put it up are dinosaurs who want to perpetuate a myth.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 07, 2010, 01:54:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 11:27:44 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 10:30:46 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 10:21:08 PM
'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they, so what's your point?'
No? What about the 58 million acres of land in North America stipulated as reservations/tribal land? What's your point, apart from poisoning every thread on the board (apart from the GAA ones, obviously)?
You think the reservations and tribal lands are a good deal for Native Americans? You obviously know as little about that situation as you do about politics here.
No, but that wasn't the question, the question was 'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they?', which I answered. You just revert to type by throwing in more shite when you're proved wrong ... there are house flies that talk more sense about politics than revisionist nobends like you
They haven't given them back the land they took from them. In some cases, the reservations are far away from their ancient homelands. In addition, the total land given over to the Native American peoples amounts to about 3% of the total available territory. Hardly a fair shake is it. But at least they're doing something, eh?
Round and round in circles you go as per usual ... like a turd going down a toilet
Quote from: red hander on July 08, 2010, 04:47:36 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 07, 2010, 01:54:27 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 11:27:44 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on July 06, 2010, 10:30:46 PM
Quote from: red hander on July 06, 2010, 10:21:08 PM
'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they, so what's your point?'
No? What about the 58 million acres of land in North America stipulated as reservations/tribal land? What's your point, apart from poisoning every thread on the board (apart from the GAA ones, obviously)?
You think the reservations and tribal lands are a good deal for Native Americans? You obviously know as little about that situation as you do about politics here.
No, but that wasn't the question, the question was 'But they haven't given them back control over lands they previously held, have they?', which I answered. You just revert to type by throwing in more shite when you're proved wrong ... there are house flies that talk more sense about politics than revisionist nobends like you
They haven't given them back the land they took from them. In some cases, the reservations are far away from their ancient homelands. In addition, the total land given over to the Native American peoples amounts to about 3% of the total available territory. Hardly a fair shake is it. But at least they're doing something, eh?
Round and round in circles you go as per usual ... like a turd going down a toilet
Like your argument heading down the pan, you mean. :D
Bye, timewaster.
Quote from: charlieTully on July 05, 2010, 05:58:33 PM
i thrive on my hatred of unionism and hunnery and make no apologies for it. get yourselves down to ardoyne on tuesday, all hands on deck. T.A.L
So did you get to join the murderous scum, then, or is today too late? >:(
PSNI woman injured at Orange march protest in Belfast
There was sporadic violence in parts of Belfast, Derry and Lurgan.
Assistant Chief Constable Alistair Finlay said the past 24 hours had been "a very challenging time for policing".
Seventy baton rounds were fired by police and 55 officers were injured on Monday night.
Over two days of violence, police said 82 officers had been hurt.
In Ardoyne, north Belfast, on Monday evening, police fired a number of baton rounds after being attacked.
Two people injured by baton rounds were treated at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Belfast. They were later discharged.
More than 100 riot police were involved in an operation to remove nationalist protesters blocking the road ahead of the return of an Orange Order march.
The crowd threw petrol bombs, a blast bomb and other missiles at police. The policewoman was struck on the head by debris thrown from the roof of the shops at about 2200 BST.
Police said they had to protect their injured colleague and ambulance crews from further missiles in Ardoyne as they tended to her, before she was taken to hospital. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/10609517.stm
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48336000/jpg/_48336778_009795953-1.jpg)
Those PSNi Landrovers are certainly impressive. I do like my Jeep but those devices look indestructible. Fit it with some modest 33" or 36" tyres and there would be no stopping you even in soft underfoot conditions.
Do the PSNI ever have a sale?
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48336000/jpg/_48336778_009795953-1.jpg)
Someone has just told GDA that Gordon Strachan has been offered the Celtic job again!
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 13, 2010, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on July 05, 2010, 05:58:33 PM
i thrive on my hatred of unionism and hunnery and make no apologies for it. get yourselves down to ardoyne on tuesday, all hands on deck. T.A.L
So did you get to join the murderous scum, then, or is today too late? >:(
PSNI woman injured at Orange march protest in Belfast
There was sporadic violence in parts of Belfast, Derry and Lurgan.
Assistant Chief Const
able Alistair Finlay said the past 24 hours had been "a very challenging time for policing".
Seventy baton rounds were fired by police and 55 officers were injured on Monday night.
Over two days of violence, police said 82 officers had been hurt.
In Ardoyne, north Belfast, on Monday evening, police fired a number of baton rounds after being attacked.
Two people injured by baton rounds were treated at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Belfast. They were later discharged.
More than 100 riot police were involved in an operation to remove nationalist protesters blocking the road ahead of the return of an Orange Order march.
The crowd threw petrol bombs, a blast bomb and other missiles at police. The policewoman was struck on the head by debris thrown from the roof of the shops at about 2200 BST.
Police said they had to protect their injured colleague and ambulance crews from further missiles in Ardoyne as they tended to her, before she was taken to hospital.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/10609517.stm
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48336000/jpg/_48336778_009795953-1.jpg)
nah. eastenders was on.