The Political History of Northern Ireland

[Tony Baloney]

I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.

Are you 12?*







*I'm possibly doing a disservice to 12 year olds.

[charlieTully]

The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact.  Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse.  It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U.  Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk.  The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?

The lesson?  A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes.  As part of the UK, we enjoy more or less all the freedoms that we could hope for in a free society.  Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.

Let's face it, the SDLP and SF are sitting up in Stormont helping to administer the rule of the United Kingdom as part of a devolved government with few real competences.  With little prospect of change on the constitutional front, surely it's about time we grew up and engaged with the real left-right, liberal-conservative, Keynsian v Monetarist politics of the age.  I am of course conscious of how much easier that is to state than to inculcate.  In conclusion, the lessons that I've learned as a young GAA-playing man from the Catholic community having studied and worked abroad lead me to the conclusion that when John Hume once spoke of entering a post-Nationalist era, people like myself back then should not have mocked him so.

we can embark on this utopian political age when the union flags and bonfires and coat trailing marches are removed from our society.

[trileacman]

The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact.  Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse.  It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U.  Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk.  The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?

The lesson?  A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes.  As part of the UK, we enjoy more or less all the freedoms that we could hope for in a free society.  Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.

Let's face it, the SDLP and SF are sitting up in Stormont helping to administer the rule of the United Kingdom as part of a devolved government with few real competences.  With little prospect of change on the constitutional front, surely it's about time we grew up and engaged with the real left-right, liberal-conservative, Keynsian v Monetarist politics of the age.  I am of course conscious of how much easier that is to state than to inculcate.  In conclusion, the lessons that I've learned as a young GAA-playing man from the Catholic community having studied and worked abroad lead me to the conclusion that when John Hume once spoke of entering a post-Nationalist era, people like myself back then should not have mocked him so.

we can embark on this utopian political age when the union flags and bonfires and coat trailing marches are removed from our society.

And what of the tricolours and hunger striker memorials? exempt?

[Evil Genius]

I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.

I don't get Republicanism at all. If they're Irish Republicans, they should all live in the Irish Republic. Northern Ireland is not part of the (yet-to-be liberated) 26 counties...

[muppet]

I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.

Why has no one thought of this before?

[Myles Na G.]

I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.

The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.

[Ulick]

I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.

The British have been in the north of Ireland longer than white people have been in Australia or North America. Try telling the Americans that they should hand back control of the US to the descendants of Sitting Bull and his like.

Rubbish:

• Farrandeelin is correct the 6 counties is not part of Britain. 
• Britain was created with the Act of Union in 1707. North America was settled in the 16th century (belfore Britain was created), therefore the British could not have been in Ireland longer than they have been in North America as the "British" only came into being after both were "settled".

[Ulick]

The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact.  Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse.  It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U.  Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk.  The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?

The lesson?  A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes.

Until you present some evidence to support your conclusions we can only assume that is all nonsense.

[lynchbhoy]

why would people tie in with the 'mainland' - sure most people in these two islands dont speak French, German, Spanish,Dutch etc etc - there are not too many recent historical links wth the countries of Europe so I dont understand what people refer to the mainland for !!

as for myles - yes SA is a good example - and SA also couldnt tie down truth and cover up the oppression and persecution - it had to fall eventually....a bit like what has happened and is happening in the north of Ireland ! I see you also cannot repel any of my other points!
Interesting that you cite the USA - they also ejected the british overlord! You see the pattern throughout the world.
Ireland is an island and whatever about the factions on it, they will all eventually be goverend by a single juristiction. This is inevitable.

Harps - I see you missing out one key and vital ingredient. Money.
loyalism and unionism are no longer physically militant - ever since they lost the backing and supply of weapons (plus training and extra shooters for each mission) from the british army.
Once the world and local Irish economy return to health, ths show will go back on the road.
Historically we have seen all peoples - not just unionists a and loyalists- succumb to the lure and promise of money.
The british people and gov want rid of the north and its financial burden. They have said so more and more than ever - last heard by cameron in the run up to elections.

It could have happened before 2020, but now the economic problems worldwide have halted this.
The politicians in westminister wont give a jot about unionist and loyalist opinion. They want to stop heaving money down the deep hole.
We shall see.

[ziggysego]

I don't get Unionism at all. If they're British, they should live in Britain. The occupied 6 counties is not part of Britain.

I don't get Republicanism at all. If they're Irish Republicans, they should all live in the Irish Republic. Northern Ireland is not part of the (yet-to-be liberated) 26 counties...

Does that include English republicans that don't believe in a monarchy?
















Sorry, couldn't help myself

[charlieTully]

The political history/present/future of Northern Ireland is pretty simple in actual fact.  Its status as part of the UK won't change in our lifetimes at least, for better or worse.  It will be a while before Catholics outnumber Protestants in NI, and even after that, a substantial proportion of these will be soft unionists with a small U.  Even if eventually Nationalists somehow obtain a 50%+1 majority in a referendum, we can be sure that the hard-core loyalist population will not take this lying down, and will unleash a campaign of the most violent, thuggish and sectarian barbarism, making any nascent 32 county Republic impossible to govern and putting the lives of the Northern Catholic population in general at severe risk.  The 50.1% may triumph, but what of the 49.9% left behind?

The lesson?  A United Ireland is certainly impossible in our lifetimes and in our childrens' lifetimes.  As part of the UK, we enjoy more or less all the freedoms that we could hope for in a free society.  Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.

Let's face it, the SDLP and SF are sitting up in Stormont helping to administer the rule of the United Kingdom as part of a devolved government with few real competences.  With little prospect of change on the constitutional front, surely it's about time we grew up and engaged with the real left-right, liberal-conservative, Keynsian v Monetarist politics of the age.  I am of course conscious of how much easier that is to state than to inculcate.  In conclusion, the lessons that I've learned as a young GAA-playing man from the Catholic community having studied and worked abroad lead me to the conclusion that when John Hume once spoke of entering a post-Nationalist era, people like myself back then should not have mocked him so.

we can embark on this utopian political age when the union flags and bonfires and coat trailing marches are removed from our society.

And what of the tricolours and hunger striker memorials? exempt?

yes, i could agree with that. a flag free society would be the way to go.

[Nally Stand]

So Harp esentially what you are implying is that we should just forget about Irish Unity because it is too risky, too long term a goal and too hard to achieve, and that we should all just become Post-Nationalists?

As someone who like yourself, has studied, and worked abroad I would have to say a big No thanks. to that. Thankfully the people gave the SDLP the correct reaction to it's Post Nationalism ever since they came out of the closet on it back in 2001.

As for

Pretending Northern Ireland does not exist, avoiding the use of the term, and indulging in crass rhetoric such as "a United Ireland by 2016" is a blind strategy that takes no account of political realities as they really stand.

I am someone who refuses to refer to these six counties as anything other than "the six counties". I don't see myself as being blind by doing so. I see myself as being true to my feelings/opinions.

[delboy]

why would people tie in with the 'mainland' - sure most people in these two islands dont speak French, German, Spanish,Dutch etc etc - there are not too many recent historical links wth the countries of Europe so I dont understand what people refer to the mainland for !!

Thats got to be one of the best gobbdegook sentences i've seen in a long time, what they hell are you banging on about 

]as for myles - yes SA is a good example - and SA also couldnt tie down truth and cover up the oppression and persecution - it had to fall eventually....a bit like what has happened and is happening in the north of Ireland ! I see you also cannot repel any of my other points!
Interesting that you cite the USA - they also ejected the british overlord! You see the pattern throughout the world.
Ireland is an island and whatever about the factions on it, they will all eventually be goverend by a single juristiction. This is inevitable.

I think its insulting to the opressed people of SA to compare the regime they lived under with N. Ireland so why not go the whole hog and claim so some of rwandian genocide MOPE.

Harps - I see you missing out one key and vital ingredient. Money.
loyalism and unionism are no longer physically militant - ever since they lost the backing and supply of weapons (plus training and extra shooters for each mission) from the british army.
Once the world and local Irish economy return to health, ths show will go back on the road.
Historically we have seen all peoples - not just unionists a and loyalists- succumb to the lure and promise of money.
The british people and gov want rid of the north and its financial burden. They have said so more and more than ever - last heard by cameron in the run up to elections.
It could have happened before 2020, but now the economic problems worldwide have halted this.
The politicians in westminister wont give a jot about unionist and loyalist opinion. They want to stop heaving money down the deep hole.
We shall see.

So you don't think one of the largest economies in the world can afford N. Ireland yet you think that Ireland can  On what basis that tiny unsustainable blip in irelands ecomonic fortunes, the celtic tiger boom, yeah of course 

[lynchbhoy]

Thats got to be one of the best gobbdegook sentences i've seen in a long time, what they hell are you banging on about 

I think its insulting to the opresses people of SA to compare the regime they lived under with N. Ireland so why not go the whole hog and claim so some of rwandian genocide MOPE.

So you don't think one of the largest economies in the world can afford N. Ireland yet you think that Ireland can  On what basis that tiny unsustainable blip in irelands ecomonic fortunes, the celtic tiger boom, yeah of course 

when you talk about 'mainlands' you surely are talking about mainland europe - not the two large islands off its north west coast !

its a pity of you to not like the comparison to SA. However your airbrushed history of the north of Ireland incluse the same kind of oppression and persecution - but for blacks insert catholics/Irish. If you dont agree  then what exactly was bloody sunday ? Why were hey marching for 'civil rights' etc etc etc !

the prime minister of 'one of the largest economies in the world' has echoed what other british politicians have said - they want to jettison the financial burden that the north of Ireland is - they dont want to continue to pay for what doesnt belong to them !
that isn me saying it, this is the people from the british Gov and other parties !
Ireland will have to take the financial burden - which is why there will be a lot of panic and talk and financial incentives given by british, US and EU to Irish gov when the time comes in order for renunification to take place !
sticking your head in the sand wont make it go away !

[delboy]

Thats got to be one of the best gobbdegook sentences i've seen in a long time, what they hell are you banging on about 

I think its insulting to the opresses people of SA to compare the regime they lived under with N. Ireland so why not go the whole hog and claim so some of rwandian genocide MOPE.

So you don't think one of the largest economies in the world can afford N. Ireland yet you think that Ireland can  On what basis that tiny unsustainable blip in irelands ecomonic fortunes, the celtic tiger boom, yeah of course 

when you talk about 'mainlands' you surely are talking about mainland europe - not the two large islands off its north west coast !

its a pity of you to not like the comparison to SA. However your airbrushed history of the north of Ireland incluse the same kind of oppression and persecution - but for blacks insert catholics/Irish. If you dont agree  then what exactly was bloody sunday ? Why were hey marching for 'civil rights' etc etc etc !

the prime minister of 'one of the largest economies in the world' has echoed what other british politicians have said - they want to jettison the financial burden that the north of Ireland is - they dont want to continue to pay for what doesnt belong to them !
that isn me saying it, this is the people from the british Gov and other parties !
Ireland will have to take the financial burden - which is why there will be a lot of panic and talk and financial incentives given by british, US and EU to Irish gov when the time comes in order for renunification to take place !
sticking your head in the sand wont make it go away !

Unlike you i am able to use the word mainland without out having to tie myself up in ideological conundrums, any island which is under the jurisdication of a larger land mass then refers to that larger land mass as the mainland.

MOPERY of the highest order, i said before why hold back why not call yourselves the rwandians of europe or some other such nonsense, sure who cares about belittling a much greater human injustice as long as you can score your cheap points.

Remind me again when cameron said they want to jettison the financial burden that the north of Ireland is - they dont want to continue to pay for what doesnt belong to them! (odd that he didn't even call an area under his jurisdication by its correct name).
Oh thats right in your head wasn't it.

You think the yanks are going to pay for a UI, yeah that great peace dividend we got speaks volumes, an all expenses paid junket, sorry conference for american businessmen, you live in cloud republican cuckoo land.

So the UK government don't want to pay for us but you think they are going to pay the irish to pay for us, you've got a lot to learn. The EU, news flash, europeans don't give a tuppeny f*ck about irish reunification, you think the french, spanish etc are going to stump up to pay for your ideological wetdream, you're delusional.
Good luck shouldering that burden with a economy in the shitter and a  population of 4.5 million about 6 if you throw us into the mix when a country over ten times the size supposedly couldn't hack it.

Sticking your head above the parapet and spouting shit wouldn't make it happen you know