http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8104498.stm
Havent seen this mentioned so apologies if it has been covered.
Anyone seen this in belfast? Is it local hoolums or a more sinister group attacking the Romanians?
A shower of hoods and we thugs who need a taste of their own medicine. Picking on vulnerable and easy targets.
Racist Ba****ds
I would say it is young hoods under the influence of paramilataries. BNP would definitely pick up plenty of votes in South Belfast.
Quote from: illdecide on June 17, 2009, 10:04:45 AM
A shower of hoods and we thugs who need a taste of their own medicine. Picking on vulnerable and easy targets.
Racist Ba****ds
my thoughts exactly..fcked up wee hoods who have nothin better to do with their time..apparantly they were shoutin pro-nazi slogans ???
scumbags of the highest pedigree..one of the houses attacked had a baby only days old or somethin.
Totally disgusted by this.
You would wonder what the combined brain cell count of these numbskulls would add up to.
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:29:40 AM
Totally disgusted by this.
You would wonder what the combined brain cell count of these numbskulls would add up to.
Why is it that predominately this sort of shit always comes from unionists?
I would say if you even asked them what a nazi was or what they stood for they could even tell you that. They show all that is bad in our soceity and are showing us all up infront of the whole world. Too lazy or work shy to do the jobs that these people would be doing. Too happy to lay on the dole and and claim their benefits.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 17, 2009, 10:32:06 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:29:40 AM
Totally disgusted by this.
You would wonder what the combined brain cell count of these numbskulls would add up to.
Why is it that predominately this sort of shit always comes from unionists?
I'm sure nationalists are equally disgusted.
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:40:26 AM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 17, 2009, 10:32:06 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:29:40 AM
Totally disgusted by this.
You would wonder what the combined brain cell count of these numbskulls would add up to.
Why is it that predominately this sort of shit always comes from unionists?
I'm sure nationalists are equally disgusted.
in all honesty chris not a point scoring exercise, though it does appear to be more of a problem in loyalist areas (maybe im wrong) - I too was wondering why this would be?
Has a rally been organised at the City Hall yet so we can "unite against this scourge" ?
Agree with what's said before this is disgusting, these people are entitled to be here as we are part of the EU. Contrary to opinion of some of these rascists, they cannot claim any sort of benefits here until they have been in employment and paying taxes for a minimum 12months. What are they supposed to do for money then if they can't get a job, beg unfortunately.
This has come to a head now regards Romanian people, but foreign nationals are subjected to rascism everyday in Northern Ireland I'm sure of it. Peoples' mindsets need to change, we should be welcoming these people not treating them like dirt. My next door neighbours are really nice Polish people. They are around 30, have been living here for 5 years are married with a 1 year old little boy. The husband works long hours to pay the rent, and his wife no longer works since they had the little boy but says she would love to, but she would find it very hard to leave the baby with anyone as they have no family here, and childcare would cost them too much. This year will be their first year not returning to Poland for Christmas because they can't afford to. They are very nice, pleasant people who hope to return to Poland in a few years and have enough money to buy a SMALL house.
My point i,s this is 1 story, all these people who are in this country have a story and are individuals. There shouldn't be generalisations made about all 'foreigners' living here. Of course there are good + bad (there are plenty of bad people in Ireland too), and those who may steal, assault whatever...but the vast majority are here to better themselves and should be respected for that.
D4S Hope that wasnt a dig at my point as I was referring to the thugs who were bullying these people claiming the benefits?
Quote from: Minder on June 17, 2009, 10:44:06 AM
Has a rally been organised at the City Hall yet so we can "unite against this scourge" ?
You off work today Minder?
Quote from: lfdown2 on June 17, 2009, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:40:26 AM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 17, 2009, 10:32:06 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:29:40 AM
Totally disgusted by this.
You would wonder what the combined brain cell count of these numbskulls would add up to.
Why is it that predominately this sort of shit always comes from unionists?
I'm sure nationalists are equally disgusted.
in all honesty chris not a point scoring exercise, though it does appear to be more of a problem in loyalist areas (maybe im wrong) - I too was wondering why this would be?
Thats what i meant and im sure Chris knows that. Not a point scoring exercise at all just an observation. Is it because the type of loyalist involved would tend to mirror their counterparts over the water?
The unionist politicans condemnation of this is deafening.
Pure hatred is all it is!!
These pro-nazi hoods no doubt will be wearing proudly their poppies in another few months to display their britishness, to remember the fallen of WWII, when, thats right the nazis and fascism were crushed.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 17, 2009, 10:50:37 AM
D4S Hope that wasnt a dig at my point as I was referring to the thugs who were bullying these people claiming the benefits?
No NAG1 I know you were referring to the workshy thugs, I was making a general statement regards the point of view you hear from people up and down the country saying 'what are they doing here claiming our benefits, go back to their own country'....I was making the point that they have to be here minimum 12 months and paying taxes before they can get any benefits.
I find it strange that the police can say that none of these attacks are linked and they are not part of an orchestrated campaign. I suppose its a bit like sectarianism, they still turn a blind eye to it as well. You would wonder what side the police are actually on?
Great to see those at the rally yesterday turn on these little scumbags and give chase.
Quote from: D4S on June 17, 2009, 10:54:31 AM
I was making the point that they have to be here minimum 12 months and paying taxes before they can get any benefits.
I understand what you are saying & at the risk of sounding like a racist, why would you move your family over here if you had no work, no house, no fcuk all?
Quote from: Yes I Would on June 17, 2009, 10:53:03 AM
The unionist politicans condemnation of this is deafening.
Pure hatred is all it is!!
These pro-nazi hoods no doubt will be wearing proudly their poppies in another few months to display their britishness, to remember the fallen of WWII, when, thats right the nazis and fascism were crushed.
You can bet your bottom dollar that the hoods will also be at Windsor supporting OWC.
Quote from: lfdown2 on June 17, 2009, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:40:26 AM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 17, 2009, 10:32:06 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:29:40 AM
Totally disgusted by this.
You would wonder what the combined brain cell count of these numbskulls would add up to.
Why is it that predominately this sort of shit always comes from unionists?
I'm sure nationalists are equally disgusted.
in all honesty chris not a point scoring exercise, though it does appear to be more of a problem in loyalist areas (maybe im wrong) - I too was wondering why this would be?
I'm not sure why this is. I wouldn't feel too comfortable living there and would expect a few strange looks from some of the locals (at best). Maybe they just don't like outsiders?
Generally, I would say Northern Ireland (maybe all of Ireland) is a fairly racist place. I'm not talking about physical attacks on people just from day to day conversations with people. Some of the ignorant comments and attitudes I hear from time to time make me despair.
Racist brainless scumbags who haven't a clue who or what they believe in. The same thugs that are intimidating the foreigners with Nazi salutes and slogans are the same scumbags that put up the Israeli flags in the area during the conflict in Gaza. ???
i agree D4S, its shocking the way people in this country treat foreign nationals,as if they are alien almost..esp those from the likes of romania,poland,latvia etc.
i notice even in the work place,the racist comments being made,mostly in jest but not always. there is a scary number of people on this island that believe they should all be sent home (this was before the recession hit) yet they were unwilling to do the jobs,the "foreigners" gladly took what they could get and got on with it.
in addition, in my work there were redundancies a few months back and some locals were laid off ahead off the foreign nationals,gave off stink ofcourse, but it was these people that refused any overtime and took 3times as long to get the job done!
think people here are forgetting that we all (well alot of us) have friends/family etc living illegally in america?and the droves of irish that went there wen there was nothing here. thats exactly what these people are trying to do..better themselves and save a bit of money to eventually go home and have a half decent life.
rant over >:(
From a report (back in 2002) about racism in belfast:
"This may be a reflection of racist attitudes but more likely it reflects the fact that housing is more readily available in Protestant working class areas than in Catholic working class areas."
The indication would be there are more minorities in the protestant areas, and therefore statistically greater chances of attack.
the combat 18 element cant be ignored either.
Quote from: Orior on June 17, 2009, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: Yes I Would on June 17, 2009, 10:53:03 AM
The unionist politicans condemnation of this is deafening.
Pure hatred is all it is!!
These pro-nazi hoods no doubt will be wearing proudly their poppies in another few months to display their britishness, to remember the fallen of WWII, when, thats right the nazis and fascism were crushed.
You can bet your bottom dollar that the hoods will also be at Windsor supporting OWC.
What kept you Orior? I was expecting the blame to be put on Norn Iron fans long before post 18.
Quote from: Orior on June 17, 2009, 10:56:55 AM
You can bet your bottom dollar that the hoods will also be at Windsor supporting OWC.
And the romanians, having seen the craic amongst the ROI fans will be off ot he world cup and happyness.
We could have a play about it.
Quote from: full back on June 17, 2009, 10:56:32 AM
Quote from: D4S on June 17, 2009, 10:54:31 AM
I was making the point that they have to be here minimum 12 months and paying taxes before they can get any benefits.
I understand what you are saying & at the risk of sounding like a racist, why would you move your family over here if you had no work, no house, no fcuk all?
Romanian winter can be -25. These people are living in poverty, and are coming here to try and get work to better themselves. Listened to a lady on the radio earlier explaining this, saying she goes over every year in July for 2 weeks to help poor romanians. She said the houses can be stone houses in the mountains with no windows and in -25 winter I think I'd want to go elsewhere. She put a challenge up to any of these thugs who wanted to, they could go with her this year on the 12th July and she will pay for their ticket, to see at firsthand what these people are leaving!! I think the same thugs will be too hungover that day from burning effigys (spelling) of the pope the night before.
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 10:59:13 AM
From a report (back in 2002) about racism in belfast:
"This may be a reflection of racist attitudes but more likely it reflects the fact that housing is more readily available in Protestant working class areas than in Catholic working class areas."
The indication would be there are more minorities in the protestant areas, and therefore statistically greater chances of attack.
the combat 18 element cant be ignored either.
Do you mean combat 18 (i.e the organisation) ? Are you saying its more orchestrated ?
Lads if you think this is just happening in Protestant areas then you are mistaken, catholic areas have their racists too and i have seen it with my own two eyes. It boils down to un-educated hoods who themselves are claiming benifits and have nothing else better to do with their time than bully the minority
Quote from: illdecide on June 17, 2009, 11:06:37 AM
Lads if you think this is just happening in Protestant areas then you are mistaken, catholic areas have their racists too and i have seen it with my own two eyes. It boils down to un-educated hoods who themselves are claiming benifits and have nothing else better to do with their time than bully the minority
Agree Illdecide of course it happens in Catholic areas too, in this instance it's in a protestant area. Hence my comment above about the 12th July, based on the lady speaking this morning.
Though I have to say there is an obvious C18, Loyalist element involved in a lot of this abuse of foreign nationals. The Polish were certainly not blameless in March around Windsor Park, but the innocent polish residents of the village area were, and were attacked for just being polish.
Quote from: illdecide on June 17, 2009, 11:06:37 AM
Lads if you think this is just happening in Protestant areas then you are mistaken, catholic areas have their racists too and i have seen it with my own two eyes. It boils down to un-educated hoods who themselves are claiming benifits and have nothing else better to do with their time than bully the minority
i know its not illdecide was just wondering at what does seem to be more prevalent in certain areas (ie the village) though nifans post seems to have cleared up why that is.
there is no doubt in my mind that in general ireland north and south is amoung the most racist countries I have visited whether that be through comments or actions. As Derry Dolly says this is a pity considering the treatment many irish got abroad.
Why were we leaving a poor country with no job or home to go to.....perhaps because we thought we were going to better things?
QuoteDo you mean combat 18 (i.e the organisation) ? Are you saying its more orchestrated ?
No idea, but i mean amongst those who have links with such organizations im not surprised by violent racist actions, whether orchestrated or not.
The human species has always gathered into pack societies for "protection" and that is still the case today. In todays world, if the leaders in the "pack" where you live (at a local level) encourage and show you have to make a positive contribution to the world you are living in then you will ape that behaviour and eventually you will become a leader and repeat the cycle. The same aping is taking place in areas like the village but the leaders in those areas would not be contributing in a positive way to the world around them...hence the downward spiral of those areas. These scumbags unfortunately know no different just like the generations before them.
Be thankful you don't live in areas where these sort of things happen (especially if your a unionist ;) )
Glad to see some measured debate here, there is no doubt there is a very racist under-current in Irish society orange & green, I hear it from my own friends often enough and it disgusts me. There does appear to be a more organised attempt at intimidation in loyalist communities though and this is very apparent, why is this? I don't know but traditionally they have a very NIMBY attitude to any group different than themselves.
In all fairness some of them Romanians can be very annoying, especiallly trying to sell roses round the botanic inn.
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 17, 2009, 11:36:13 AM
Glad to see some measured debate here, there is no doubt there is a very racist under-current in Irish society orange & green, I hear it from my own friends often enough and it disgusts me. There does appear to be a more organised attempt at intimidation in loyalist communities though and this is very apparent, why is this? I don't know but traditionally they have a very NIMBY attitude to any group different than themselves.
Is it because they have less of a tradition of being emigrants themselves ?
Any man/woman that comes over here & works to improve their lives is to be commended
Any man/woman that comes over here & takes their family with them when there is no work to be had & expects to be looked after isnt to be commended.
If I went to the US, & didnt work & decided to beg for a living would I get looked after by the locals?
Quote from: haveaharp on June 17, 2009, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 17, 2009, 11:36:13 AM
Glad to see some measured debate here, there is no doubt there is a very racist under-current in Irish society orange & green, I hear it from my own friends often enough and it disgusts me. There does appear to be a more organised attempt at intimidation in loyalist communities though and this is very apparent, why is this? I don't know but traditionally they have a very NIMBY attitude to any group different than themselves.
Is it because they have less of a tradition of being emigrants themselves ?
thought of the same reason myself
Top story on BBC website and most read.
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 17, 2009, 11:55:58 AM
Top story on BBC website and most read.
Third story on BBC NI site.
I was amazed at the coverage on BBC 5Live this morning, I know they're supposed to give balanced coverage but it sounded like Nicky Campbell was trying to come up with excuses for these thugs.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on June 17, 2009, 12:07:57 PM
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 17, 2009, 11:55:58 AM
Top story on BBC website and most read.
Third story on BBC NI site.
I was amazed at the coverage on BBC 5Live this morning, I know they're supposed to give balanced coverage but it sounded like Nicky Campbell was trying to come up with excuses for these thugs.
That is Nicky Campbell all the time tries to hard to be seen as fair to his interviewees, he has a Sunday morning talk show on BBC1 too and it is full of sensationalist bull shit.
Heard 5live myself and had the exact same thoughts aqmp.
Does he actually think that there is well considered reason and intellect involved in these boys decisions to do what they do? :-\
Quote from: theskull1 on June 17, 2009, 12:13:00 PM
Heard 5live myself and had the exact same thoughts aqmp.
Does he actually think that there is well considered reason and intellect involved in these boys decisions to do what they do? :-\
He would have taken a very different tack had it been Asians being chased out of Burnley by the BNP
Quote from: Yes I Would on June 17, 2009, 10:53:03 AM
The unionist politicans condemnation of this is deafening.
Are you deaf? If you'd turned your radio on this morning you'd have heard plenty of unionist Politicans condemning these attacks.
QuotePure hatred is all it is!!
These pro-nazi hoods no doubt will be wearing proudly their poppies in another few months to display their britishness, to remember the fallen of WWII, when, thats right the nazis and fascism were crushed.
Unionists have a strong track record of sacrifice in the opposition and defeat of Nazis. Not all sections of the community can say that.
Quote from: Roger on June 17, 2009, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Yes I Would on June 17, 2009, 10:53:03 AM
The unionist politicans condemnation of this is deafening.
Are you deaf? If you'd turned your radio on this morning you'd have heard plenty of unionist Politicans condemning these attacks.
QuotePure hatred is all it is!!
These pro-nazi hoods no doubt will be wearing proudly their poppies in another few months to display their britishness, to remember the fallen of WWII, when, thats right the nazis and fascism were crushed.
Not all sections of the community can say that.
or would want to
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:59:31 AM
Quote from: Orior on June 17, 2009, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: Yes I Would on June 17, 2009, 10:53:03 AM
The unionist politicans condemnation of this is deafening.
Pure hatred is all it is!!
These pro-nazi hoods no doubt will be wearing proudly their poppies in another few months to display their britishness, to remember the fallen of WWII, when, thats right the nazis and fascism were crushed.
You can bet your bottom dollar that the hoods will also be at Windsor supporting OWC.
What kept you Orior? I was expecting the blame to be put on Norn Iron fans long before post 18.
Sorry, I was busy :(
Do you reckon they're not OWC fans?
I'm ashamed and embarrassed of my fellow Irish man and woman in Belfast. This is disgraceful behaviour. The poor Romanians are coming to the north for a better live.
However I am also disgusted as to how the reasoning on this thread has turned.
This is NOT a Protestant v Catholic issuse. It's not even a Protestant v immigrant issuse. It IS a scum v decent people issue.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 17, 2009, 01:53:37 PM
I'm ashamed and embarrassed of my fellow Irish man and woman in Belfast. This is disgraceful behaviour. The poor Romanians are coming to the north for a better live.
However I am also disgusted as to how the reasoning on this thread has turned.
This is NOT a Protestant v Catholic issuse. It's not even a Protestant v immigrant issuse. It IS a scum v decent people issue.
Well said
'equalise alert'
there are nationalist areas as bad as the protestant ones - eg ballymena wasnt it where those bebo links were from that were posted on here round halloween time?
theres a few more spring to mind also, but rather than have tyronies and a few other fellas go mad and turn this thread into a row I'll not post where.
I think the north seems to be racist, with a bit of it in the south also - but the gov imo are to blame for its uneven dole/benefit mess.
Also all Irish going to america got work, if they didnt they came home as there were no benefit/dole being dished out to people.
The green card system sorted out their problems, so you cant equate these poor folk in to the paddys that went stateside.
Paddys in England you can though.
Poor romanians, if they are roma - then they are hated by the romanians too !
For all his failings I have to say Nolan really tore into the racists phoning in this morning. Fair play to him-he did well.
Quote from: longrunsthefox on June 17, 2009, 02:16:05 PM
For all his failings I have to say Nolan really tore into the racists phoning in this morning. Fair play to him-he did well.
wat he say?more to the point,what were the racists saying? >:(
Quote from: ziggysego on June 17, 2009, 01:53:37 PM
I'm ashamed and embarrassed of my fellow Irish man and woman in Belfast. This is disgraceful behaviour. The poor Romanians are coming to the north for a better live.
However I am also disgusted as to how the reasoning on this thread has turned.
This is NOT a Protestant v Catholic issuse. It's not even a Protestant v immigrant issuse. It IS a scum v decent people issue.
Well said Ziggy and not a mention of a female :P
Quote from: Derry Dolly on June 17, 2009, 02:21:35 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on June 17, 2009, 02:16:05 PM
For all his failings I have to say Nolan really tore into the racists phoning in this morning. Fair play to him-he did well.
wat he say?more to the point,what were the racists saying? >:(
He just tore f** out of them -they were usual about these people shud not be here blah blah... I don't even want to repeat what they were saying
Quote from: Orior on June 17, 2009, 01:39:57 PM
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 17, 2009, 10:59:31 AM
Quote from: Orior on June 17, 2009, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: Yes I Would on June 17, 2009, 10:53:03 AM
The unionist politicans condemnation of this is deafening.
Pure hatred is all it is!!
These pro-nazi hoods no doubt will be wearing proudly their poppies in another few months to display their britishness, to remember the fallen of WWII, when, thats right the nazis and fascism were crushed.
You can bet your bottom dollar that the hoods will also be at Windsor supporting OWC.
What kept you Orior? I was expecting the blame to be put on Norn Iron fans long before post 18.
Do you reckon they're not OWC fans?
Tony is looking for you in one of the Linfield/IFA threads. Ask him.
Quote from: longrunsthefox on June 17, 2009, 02:16:05 PM
For all his failings I have to say Nolan really tore into the racists phoning in this morning. Fair play to him-he did well.
He eats these kind of people for breakfast.
Quote from: illdecide on June 17, 2009, 02:21:41 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 17, 2009, 01:53:37 PM
I'm ashamed and embarrassed of my fellow Irish man and woman in Belfast. This is disgraceful behaviour. The poor Romanians are coming to the north for a better live.
However I am also disgusted as to how the reasoning on this thread has turned.
This is NOT a Protestant v Catholic issuse. It's not even a Protestant v immigrant issuse. It IS a scum v decent people issue.
Well said Ziggy and not a mention of a female :P
Feck off! :D
Quote from: Doogie Browser on June 17, 2009, 02:29:17 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on June 17, 2009, 02:16:05 PM
For all his failings I have to say Nolan really tore into the racists phoning in this morning. Fair play to him-he did well.
He eats these kind of people for breakfast.
For starters!
I am missing a large part of the news, because I've never heard of eastern Europeans being stoned or chased out of nationalist areas.
It must be my bigotted blind spot :(
You must not be paying attention orior, as it has certainly happened, and lets not forget many many attacks will go under the radar. Im sure if you where really inclined you could find some.
It is as has been said more prevelant in loyalist ares for the reasons sketched out above - partly due to the larger numbers living in the protestant areas, and also due to some of the scummy links some groups have with c18 etc.
Without getting into the row about religion, but it seems to be a consistent news item of racist attacks in protestant areas of Belfast whether it be on Chinese, Polish or now Romanian. I for one condemn the attacks, no place for them. I saw first hand the effect it hand on a neighbour of mine who was Polish and had paint bombs thrown at his apartment and car a few months back in a loyalist area of Lurgan. He had done nothing wrong and was so frightened after it, it brought home the fear these attacks (by more than likely a 15 year old hood) can impress on an individual and it was not nice. He was simply targeted because he had a Polish Satellite dish, and the brainiacs who perpetrated the attack did the same a week later and even a few months later when he had moved (this time putting windows through – his apartment was a ground floor one). These attacks on my neighbour were away before the Poland and N.Ireland games too so I bear to think what would have happened to him if he had still been living there at that time. I haven't heard much more about the attacks since the news this morning, but how did a 100 odd Romanians get removed at once – were they living in one house? Was there a co-ordinated attack on all the Romanians in the area or was it simply a co-ordinated attack on a street which is all Romanian? It just seems strange that 115 were removed in one go, I find it hard to believe that these were all attacked.
Am a bit cynical too NRico. I would say when word spread of food and perhaps the possibiity of better housing (and with the media interest this story has attracted it will happen), and maybe an oul collection thrown in the numbers swelled significantly. I could be totally wrong
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 04:06:14 PM
You must not be paying attention orior, as it has certainly happened, and lets not forget many many attacks will go under the radar. Im sure if you where really inclined you could find some.
It is as has been said more prevelant in loyalist ares for the reasons sketched out above - partly due to the larger numbers living in the protestant areas, and also due to some of the scummy links some groups have with c18 etc.
Hmmm, so it happens everywhere, but is more prevalent in loyalist areas. Well, at least you admit so, unlike the rest of our wee country.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 17, 2009, 04:15:34 PM
Without getting into the row about religion, but it seems to be a consistent news item of racist attacks in protestant areas of Belfast whether it be on Chinese, Polish or now Romanian. I for one condemn the attacks, no place for them. I saw first hand the effect it hand on a neighbour of mine who was Polish and had paint bombs thrown at his apartment and car a few months back in a loyalist area of Lurgan. He had done nothing wrong and was so frightened after it, it brought home the fear these attacks (by more than likely a 15 year old hood) can impress on an individual and it was not nice. He was simply targeted because he had a Polish Satellite dish, and the brainiacs who perpetrated the attack did the same a week later and even a few months later when he had moved (this time putting windows through – his apartment was a ground floor one). These attacks on my neighbour were away before the Poland and N.Ireland games too so I bear to think what would have happened to him if he had still been living there at that time. I haven't heard much more about the attacks since the news this morning, but how did a 100 odd Romanians get removed at once – were they living in one house? Was there a co-ordinated attack on all the Romanians in the area or was it simply a co-ordinated attack on a street which is all Romanian? It just seems strange that 115 were removed in one go, I find it hard to believe that these were all attacked.
There can be anywhere from 20 to 30 living in one house, you should see the numbers of kids there can be hanging out on one street. They also tend to live in houses next door to each other, because houses next door to Romanians tend to be more available. So I wouldn't imagine it'd be too difficult for a bunch of hoods to stone and brick a row of 6 or 7 houses next to each other in one short attack.
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 10:59:13 AM
From a report (back in 2002) about racism in belfast:
"This may be a reflection of racist attitudes but more likely it reflects the fact that housing is more readily available in Protestant working class areas than in Catholic working class areas."
The indication would be there are more minorities in the protestant areas, and therefore statistically greater chances of attack.
the combat 18 element cant be ignored either.
Hmm, care to back that up with evidence?
There is no doubt that the unionist/loyalist community have their hands dirty here, moreso than the nationalist community. The vast majority of racist attacks stem from pro union portions of the north. This might have something to do with the fact that there is a sizeable amount of catholics in Romania and the largest Church I believe is Orthodox which has Catholic ties.
The fenians dont exactly cover themselves with glory either, they are the one's shooting cops again and some of them are trying to open old wounds and want to go back to the bad old days. Every one of these scumbags should be jailed no matter their affiliation and just as I am sure some racists are norn iron fans I am sure that for example that sc**bag shinner who was intelligent to fall off the roof of an Orange lodge he was trying to set on fire is a republic supporter. I still dont see the connection, it is a stretch to go from racist sc**bag to norn iron supporter, they cant all be lads.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 10:59:13 AM
From a report (back in 2002) about racism in belfast:
"This may be a reflection of racist attitudes but more likely it reflects the fact that housing is more readily available in Protestant working class areas than in Catholic working class areas."
The indication would be there are more minorities in the protestant areas, and therefore statistically greater chances of attack.
the combat 18 element cant be ignored either.
Hmm, care to back that up with evidence?
The report i mentioned the quote from was by the institute for conflict research.
Cant find the source material at the moment, but ive no reason to doubt it, and it would back what ive read elsewhere. Ill try and source it later if you think it sounds wrong.
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 06:33:05 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 10:59:13 AM
From a report (back in 2002) about racism in belfast:
"This may be a reflection of racist attitudes but more likely it reflects the fact that housing is more readily available in Protestant working class areas than in Catholic working class areas."
The indication would be there are more minorities in the protestant areas, and therefore statistically greater chances of attack.
the combat 18 element cant be ignored either.
Hmm, care to back that up with evidence?
The report i mentioned the quote from was by the institute for conflict research.
Cant find the source material at the moment, but ive no reason to doubt it, and it would back what ive read elsewhere. Ill try and source it later if you think it sounds wrong.
Please do that.
Quote from: stew on June 17, 2009, 06:24:31 PM
There is no doubt that the unionist/loyalist community have their hands dirty here, moreso than the nationalist community. The vast majority of racist attacks stem from pro union portions of the north. This might have something to do with the fact that there is a sizeable amount of catholics in Romania and the largest Church I believe is Orthodox which has Catholic ties.
I'd be extremely surprised if the wankers attacking these people were intelligent enough to research the religious background of the Roma, which is mixed anyway.
Quote from: AFS on June 17, 2009, 06:35:58 PM
Quote from: stew on June 17, 2009, 06:24:31 PM
There is no doubt that the unionist/loyalist community have their hands dirty here, moreso than the nationalist community. The vast majority of racist attacks stem from pro union portions of the north. This might have something to do with the fact that there is a sizeable amount of catholics in Romania and the largest Church I believe is Orthodox which has Catholic ties.
I'd be extremely surprised if the w**kers attacking these people were intelligent enough to research the religious background of the Roma, which is mixed anyway.
I would agree. I think the fact that they are different is enough. The difference is irrelevant to these lowlifes.
Quote from: AFS on June 17, 2009, 05:36:51 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 17, 2009, 04:15:34 PM
Without getting into the row about religion, but it seems to be a consistent news item of racist attacks in protestant areas of Belfast whether it be on Chinese, Polish or now Romanian. I for one condemn the attacks, no place for them. I saw first hand the effect it hand on a neighbour of mine who was Polish and had paint bombs thrown at his apartment and car a few months back in a loyalist area of Lurgan. He had done nothing wrong and was so frightened after it, it brought home the fear these attacks (by more than likely a 15 year old hood) can impress on an individual and it was not nice. He was simply targeted because he had a Polish Satellite dish, and the brainiacs who perpetrated the attack did the same a week later and even a few months later when he had moved (this time putting windows through – his apartment was a ground floor one). These attacks on my neighbour were away before the Poland and N.Ireland games too so I bear to think what would have happened to him if he had still been living there at that time. I haven't heard much more about the attacks since the news this morning, but how did a 100 odd Romanians get removed at once – were they living in one house? Was there a co-ordinated attack on all the Romanians in the area or was it simply a co-ordinated attack on a street which is all Romanian? It just seems strange that 115 were removed in one go, I find it hard to believe that these were all attacked.
There can be anywhere from 20 to 30 living in one house, you should see the numbers of kids there can be hanging out on one street. They also tend to live in houses next door to each other, because houses next door to Romanians tend to be more available. So I wouldn't imagine it'd be too difficult for a bunch of hoods to stone and brick a row of 6 or 7 houses next to each other in one short attack.
That was my exprience in the Botanic Area - useta seem to be huge amounts of people living in one house. Useta see them hooking through bins all the time though. Sad existence.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 17, 2009, 02:08:50 PM
Poor romanians, if they are roma - then they are hated by the romanians too !
True. I heard a man phone in on Talkback today when I was in the car. His wife is Romanian and he said his wife and her family back in Romania are disgusted by these people because they are gypsies, aren't over here to work at all and give Romanians a bad name.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 17, 2009, 06:47:12 PM
Quote from: AFS on June 17, 2009, 05:36:51 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 17, 2009, 04:15:34 PM
Without getting into the row about religion, but it seems to be a consistent news item of racist attacks in protestant areas of Belfast whether it be on Chinese, Polish or now Romanian. I for one condemn the attacks, no place for them. I saw first hand the effect it hand on a neighbour of mine who was Polish and had paint bombs thrown at his apartment and car a few months back in a loyalist area of Lurgan. He had done nothing wrong and was so frightened after it, it brought home the fear these attacks (by more than likely a 15 year old hood) can impress on an individual and it was not nice. He was simply targeted because he had a Polish Satellite dish, and the brainiacs who perpetrated the attack did the same a week later and even a few months later when he had moved (this time putting windows through his apartment was a ground floor one). These attacks on my neighbour were away before the Poland and N.Ireland games too so I bear to think what would have happened to him if he had still been living there at that time. I havent heard much more about the attacks since the news this morning, but how did a 100 odd Romanians get removed at once were they living in one house? Was there a co-ordinated attack on all the Romanians in the area or was it simply a co-ordinated attack on a street which is all Romanian? It just seems strange that 115 were removed in one go, I find it hard to believe that these were all attacked.
There can be anywhere from 20 to 30 living in one house, you should see the numbers of kids there can be hanging out on one street. They also tend to live in houses next door to each other, because houses next door to Romanians tend to be more available. So I wouldn't imagine it'd be too difficult for a bunch of hoods to stone and brick a row of 6 or 7 houses next to each other in one short attack.
That was my exprience in the Botanic Area - useta seem to be huge amounts of people living in one house. Useta see them hooking through bins all the time though. Sad existence.
Why the need to bring Tyrone people into the discussion?
Am I right in thinking that these people are Roma?
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 17, 2009, 09:12:20 PM
Am I right in thinking that these people are Roma?
You are.
Quote from: Minder on June 17, 2009, 09:14:02 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 17, 2009, 09:12:20 PM
Am I right in thinking that these people are Roma?
You are.
thought so, they're always treated well down south you know, them prods in belfast is a disgrace.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0718/roma.html
QuoteA family of Roma who are encamped at the M50 roundabout in Ballymun have been subjected to racist attacks and slurs.
Sara Russell, the Roma co-ordinator with Pavee Point, told a news conference in Dublin this morning that eggs had been thrown and abuse shouted at the Rostas family late at night.
She also said that health officials in Ballymun had written about their concerns of an outbreak of an infectious disease at the camp.
AdvertisementMore than 50 Roma adults and children have been living in what Pavee Point describes as horrific conditions for nearly two months.
A coalition of charity organisations has called for urgent action to address what it is describing as an humanitarian crisis.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 06:33:05 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 10:59:13 AM
From a report (back in 2002) about racism in belfast:
"This may be a reflection of racist attitudes but more likely it reflects the fact that housing is more readily available in Protestant working class areas than in Catholic working class areas."
The indication would be there are more minorities in the protestant areas, and therefore statistically greater chances of attack.
the combat 18 element cant be ignored either.
Hmm, care to back that up with evidence?
The report i mentioned the quote from was by the institute for conflict research.
Cant find the source material at the moment, but ive no reason to doubt it, and it would back what ive read elsewhere. Ill try and source it later if you think it sounds wrong.
Please do that.
Havent located the original report, but the quote above is a quote taken from a bbc article on the report.
Looking round saw some interesting breakdowns:
This pdf shows the breakdown of minorities across NI.
South belfast area is notably highest (due to the university), though it doesnt break down further
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/11_16/citizenship/pdfs/ctz_eth_pg02_tn.pdf (http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/11_16/citizenship/pdfs/ctz_eth_pg02_tn.pdf)
And this has a lot of information on where race crimes where reported, again unsurprisingly with its relatively large% of minorities south belfast comes out on "top"
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/documents/racial.pdf (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/documents/racial.pdf)
Not a bit of a joke, with wally's like this. Particularly the 2nd one.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8105926.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8105926.stm)
His views are not much different than some on here:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=3770.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=3770.0)
Sickening acts by deluded scumbags. I have a few points..
- How come the people that never want to work and prefer to laze around claiming benefits (even when jobs were plentiful) are always the loudest in their condemnation of immigrants.
- If adolf had to have won WW2 and we were living in the third reich, these scumbags would be the 1st people he'd be marching into the gas chamber.
- The Irish have a very romantic vision of their own emmigration. Lets no forget that the Irish in the US were amongst the 1st to form organised crime gangs and some were involved in the wipe-out of native peoples of America and Australia. People like to pedel the lie that we were, to a man, hard honest decent workers and then blacken the names of all the Poles, Romanians or whoever else when we hear of some of them being here for benefits alone. A minority of both Irish Immigrants and Eastern European immigrants did/do wrong. Neither one holds moral highground over the other imo.
The hypocrisy of McGuiness is also worth noting ::)
I wonder does it register with those lads that were making the Nazi gestures the other night that their grandfathers would have been fighting against the Nazis 60 years ago..........
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 09:58:56 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 06:33:05 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 10:59:13 AM
From a report (back in 2002) about racism in belfast:
"This may be a reflection of racist attitudes but more likely it reflects the fact that housing is more readily available in Protestant working class areas than in Catholic working class areas."
The indication would be there are more minorities in the protestant areas, and therefore statistically greater chances of attack.
the combat 18 element cant be ignored either.
Hmm, care to back that up with evidence?
The report i mentioned the quote from was by the institute for conflict research.
Cant find the source material at the moment, but ive no reason to doubt it, and it would back what ive read elsewhere. Ill try and source it later if you think it sounds wrong.
Please do that.
Havent located the original report, but the quote above is a quote taken from a bbc article on the report.
Looking round saw some interesting breakdowns:
This pdf shows the breakdown of minorities across NI.
South belfast area is notably highest (due to the university), though it doesnt break down further
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/11_16/citizenship/pdfs/ctz_eth_pg02_tn.pdf (http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/11_16/citizenship/pdfs/ctz_eth_pg02_tn.pdf)
And this has a lot of information on where race crimes where reported, again unsurprisingly with its relatively large% of minorities south belfast comes out on "top"
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/documents/racial.pdf (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/documents/racial.pdf)
Sorry but quoting 2 reports which are 8 and 6 years old respectively proves nothing. The reason I asked is West Belfast has 3,500 Filipinos living in it, Brannigans pub in the Tunnel in Portadown has been long since nicknamed 'the Portuguese embassy', there are countless examples of foreign nationals being able to integrate into Catholic communities without too much bother - admittedly there are neanderthals in both communities but to say that there are more attacks occuring in Protestant communities because there are more foreign nationalis living in them is utter rubbish. Maybe it's because they are perceived as Catholics that they are being attacked ?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 10:17:16 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 09:58:56 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 06:33:05 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 10:59:13 AM
From a report (back in 2002) about racism in belfast:
"This may be a reflection of racist attitudes but more likely it reflects the fact that housing is more readily available in Protestant working class areas than in Catholic working class areas."
The indication would be there are more minorities in the protestant areas, and therefore statistically greater chances of attack.
the combat 18 element cant be ignored either.
Hmm, care to back that up with evidence?
The report i mentioned the quote from was by the institute for conflict research.
Cant find the source material at the moment, but ive no reason to doubt it, and it would back what ive read elsewhere. Ill try and source it later if you think it sounds wrong.
Please do that.
Havent located the original report, but the quote above is a quote taken from a bbc article on the report.
Looking round saw some interesting breakdowns:
This pdf shows the breakdown of minorities across NI.
South belfast area is notably highest (due to the university), though it doesnt break down further
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/11_16/citizenship/pdfs/ctz_eth_pg02_tn.pdf (http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/11_16/citizenship/pdfs/ctz_eth_pg02_tn.pdf)
And this has a lot of information on where race crimes where reported, again unsurprisingly with its relatively large% of minorities south belfast comes out on "top"
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/documents/racial.pdf (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/documents/racial.pdf)
Sorry but quoting 2 reports which are 8 and 6 years old respectively proves nothing. The reason I asked is West Belfast has 3,500 Filipinos living in it, Brannigans pub in the Tunnel in Portadown has been long since nicknamed 'the Portuguese embassy', there are countless examples of foreign nationals being able to integrate into Catholic communities without too much bother - admittedly there are neanderthals in both communities but to say that there are more attacks occuring in Protestant communities because there are more foreign nationalis living in them is utter rubbish. Maybe it's because they are perceived as Catholics that they are being attacked ?
The reason, in my opiinion, is that the Fillipinos are well received is they are a hard working crowd and are not standing begging on street corners.
Quote from: Minder on June 17, 2009, 10:28:06 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 10:17:16 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 09:58:56 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:34:52 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 06:33:05 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 17, 2009, 10:59:13 AM
From a report (back in 2002) about racism in belfast:
"This may be a reflection of racist attitudes but more likely it reflects the fact that housing is more readily available in Protestant working class areas than in Catholic working class areas."
The indication would be there are more minorities in the protestant areas, and therefore statistically greater chances of attack.
the combat 18 element cant be ignored either.
Hmm, care to back that up with evidence?
The report i mentioned the quote from was by the institute for conflict research.
Cant find the source material at the moment, but ive no reason to doubt it, and it would back what ive read elsewhere. Ill try and source it later if you think it sounds wrong.
Please do that.
Havent located the original report, but the quote above is a quote taken from a bbc article on the report.
Looking round saw some interesting breakdowns:
This pdf shows the breakdown of minorities across NI.
South belfast area is notably highest (due to the university), though it doesnt break down further
http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/11_16/citizenship/pdfs/ctz_eth_pg02_tn.pdf (http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/schools/11_16/citizenship/pdfs/ctz_eth_pg02_tn.pdf)
And this has a lot of information on where race crimes where reported, again unsurprisingly with its relatively large% of minorities south belfast comes out on "top"
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/documents/racial.pdf (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/documents/racial.pdf)
Sorry but quoting 2 reports which are 8 and 6 years old respectively proves nothing. The reason I asked is West Belfast has 3,500 Filipinos living in it, Brannigans pub in the Tunnel in Portadown has been long since nicknamed 'the Portuguese embassy', there are countless examples of foreign nationals being able to integrate into Catholic communities without too much bother - admittedly there are neanderthals in both communities but to say that there are more attacks occuring in Protestant communities because there are more foreign nationalis living in them is utter rubbish. Maybe it's because they are perceived as Catholics that they are being attacked ?
The reason, in my opiinion, is that the Fillipinos are well received is they are a hard working crowd and are not standing begging on street corners.
Or playing awful music in the street?
This started off with reasonable condemnation and a recognition from a few that Ireland has a very strong undercurrent of racism. Not to be getting on the high horse or anything but the last few pages have in my opinion amply demonstrated that undercurrent from a few members - can you spell stereotyping lads?
Quote from: CiKe on June 17, 2009, 10:48:08 PM
This started off with reasonable condemnation and a recognition from a few that Ireland has a very strong undercurrent of racism. Not to be getting on the high horse or anything but the last few pages have in my opinion amply demonstrated that undercurrent from a few members - can you spell stereotyping lads?
Have you got the courage of your convictions to spell out who it is that's stereotyping ?
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 17, 2009, 11:10:31 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 17, 2009, 02:08:50 PM
'equalise alert'
there are nationalist areas as bad as the protestant ones - eg ballymena wasnt it where those bebo links were from that were posted on here round halloween time?
theres a few more spring to mind also, but rather than have tyronies and a few other fellas go mad and turn this thread into a row I'll not post where.
I think the north seems to be racist, with a bit of it in the south also - but the gov imo are to blame for its uneven dole/benefit mess.
Also all Irish going to america got work, if they didnt they came home as there were no benefit/dole being dished out to people.
The green card system sorted out their problems, so you cant equate these poor folk in to the paddys that went stateside.
Paddys in England you can though.
Poor romanians, if they are roma - then they are hated by the romanians too !
About three years ago, there was an incident in a Tyrone village that would be safe to say is predominantly republican/nationalist, where a Lithuanian man was assaulted in the street by locals and taken to hospital. His crime? Daring to chat up a local girl in a pub.
So he was attacked for chattin up the wrong girl, or was it because he was Lithuanian??
I know a guy from Newry who once got an unmerciful kicking outside Laceys one night for touching up another blokes Sheila!!
It was the two posts prior to my own so that would be you and Minder. They may well have been flippant jokes but all too often that is used as an excuse by people to defend their comments. If it was said as a joke then perhaps clears you of any allegations of stereotyping or racism but not of bad taste in my opinion.
Quote from: CiKe on June 17, 2009, 11:27:58 PM
It was the two posts prior to my own so that would be you and Minder. They may well have been flippant jokes but all too often that is used as an excuse by people to defend their comments. If it was said as a joke then perhaps clears you of any allegations of stereotyping or racism but not of bad taste in my opinion.
Mine was a flippant joke and let me just say this, you know nothing about me so you shouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly. There are people on here who can confirm I am the furthest thing from being a racist. You really need to lighten up incidentally, you will die of a heart attack getting on like that.
As for Minder, he can speak for himself I'm sure
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 17, 2009, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: Minder on June 17, 2009, 09:14:02 PM
Quote from: Bogball XV on June 17, 2009, 09:12:20 PM
Am I right in thinking that these people are Roma?
You are.
thought so, they're always treated well down south you know, them prods in belfast is a disgrace.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0718/roma.html
QuoteA family of Roma who are encamped at the M50 roundabout in Ballymun have been subjected to racist attacks and slurs.
Sara Russell, the Roma co-ordinator with Pavee Point, told a news conference in Dublin this morning that eggs had been thrown and abuse shouted at the Rostas family late at night.
She also said that health officials in Ballymun had written about their concerns of an outbreak of an infectious disease at the camp.
AdvertisementMore than 50 Roma adults and children have been living in what Pavee Point describes as horrific conditions for nearly two months.
A coalition of charity organisations has called for urgent action to address what it is describing as an humanitarian crisis.
Feckin Norn Iron fans get everywhere!
Quote from: ziggysego on June 17, 2009, 10:02:19 PM
Not a bit of a joke, with wally's like this. Particularly the 2nd one.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8105926.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8105926.stm)
That's what Tankie will look like in 10 years.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 17, 2009, 10:17:16 PM
Sorry but quoting 2 reports which are 8 and 6 years old respectively proves nothing. The reason I asked is West Belfast has 3,500 Filipinos living in it, Brannigans pub in the Tunnel in Portadown has been long since nicknamed 'the Portuguese embassy', there are countless examples of foreign nationals being able to integrate into Catholic communities without too much bother - admittedly there are neanderthals in both communities but to say that there are more attacks occuring in Protestant communities because there are more foreign nationalis living in them is utter rubbish. Maybe it's because they are perceived as Catholics that they are being attacked ?
I didnt mean to imply the documents did prove what I am saying, i just found the breakdowns of the time interesting, thoguh out of date.
At the time it was the conflict resolution centre that made the claim that there where more living in protestant areas, and that this had a major effect.
This of course could have changed over time.
Do you have any more recent figures giving that at the last census there where only 800 odd imigrants living in west belfast, but now there are 3500 fillipinos there?
I knew there where a fair portion of filipino nurses coming over, but didnt realise it was near this volume.
PS the document i found with more recent figures
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc)
By 2006 there where 395 filipinos officially registered as living in belfast
Also, though not really a scientific breakdown, during this period more than half of all national insurance number applications from immigrants was made in shaftsbury sq, south belfast.
from the document
"It is interesting to note that these figures for NINo applications reflects the earlier patterns of residence that were identified in the 2001 Census data, that the largest proportions of migrants are focused on the south and east of the city, with relatively smaller numbers associated with the north and west parts of Belfast. "
Quote from: nifan on June 18, 2009, 09:45:02 AM
PS the document i found with more recent figures
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc)
By 2006 there where 395 filipinos officially registered as living in belfast
Also, though not really a scientific breakdown, during this period more than half of all national insurance number applications from immigrants was made in shaftsbury sq, south belfast.
from the document
"It is interesting to note that these figures for NINo applications reflects the earlier patterns of residence that were identified in the 2001 Census data, that the largest proportions of migrants are focused on the south and east of the city, with relatively smaller numbers associated with the north and west parts of Belfast. "
Would immigrants living in the student areas eg Botanic, Malone, Holylands not also register in Shatesbury Square? Is there somewhere closer?
There are 30,000 from 'A8' EU Accession countries so I expect the total number is much higher:
http://www.nisra.gov.uk/archive/demography/population/migration/EstimatedA8Pop_2007.pdf (http://www.nisra.gov.uk/archive/demography/population/migration/EstimatedA8Pop_2007.pdf)
Quote from: nifan on June 18, 2009, 09:45:02 AM
PS the document i found with more recent figures
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc)
By 2006 there where 395 filipinos officially registered as living in belfast
Also, though not really a scientific breakdown, during this period more than half of all national insurance number applications from immigrants was made in shaftsbury sq, south belfast.
from the document
"It is interesting to note that these figures for NINo applications reflects the earlier patterns of residence that were identified in the 2001 Census data, that the largest proportions of migrants are focused on the south and east of the city, with relatively smaller numbers associated with the north and west parts of Belfast. "
I don't have anything to point to regarding the number of Filipinos as it was a conversation I had with a community worker who indicated that figure I quoted. AFAIK that research hasn't been published yet. Doctors registrations would give a much more accurate picture as non-EU nationals have to apply to somewhere in England to get a national insurance number. I think that Donagh's link indicates this.
I may be wrong, I have only done my sums very roughly from the figures that were in the pdf Donagh linked to but it seems that there are as many foreign nationals in Catholic and Protestant communities - that prompts me to ask the question again I asked earlier and didn't get an answer to.
Maybe it's because they are perceived as being Catholics that they are being attacked ?
i was talking to a fella today that is going with an Indian girl and he says when she is in the vicinity of the persecuted Roman gypsies on the Lisburn Road she is racially abused on a fairly regular basis by them. Peculiar.
Quote from: Minder on June 18, 2009, 09:33:49 PM
i was talking to a fella today that is going with an Indian girl and he says when she is in the vicinity of the persecuted Roman gypsies on the Lisburn Road she is racially abused on a fairly regular basis by them. Peculiar.
White Europeans are not the sole perpetrators of Racism.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 18, 2009, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 18, 2009, 09:45:02 AM
PS the document i found with more recent figures
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc)
By 2006 there where 395 filipinos officially registered as living in belfast
Also, though not really a scientific breakdown, during this period more than half of all national insurance number applications from immigrants was made in shaftsbury sq, south belfast.
from the document
"It is interesting to note that these figures for NINo applications reflects the earlier patterns of residence that were identified in the 2001 Census data, that the largest proportions of migrants are focused on the south and east of the city, with relatively smaller numbers associated with the north and west parts of Belfast. "
I don't have anything to point to regarding the number of Filipinos as it was a conversation I had with a community worker who indicated that figure I quoted. AFAIK that research hasn't been published yet. Doctors registrations would give a much more accurate picture as non-EU nationals have to apply to somewhere in England to get a national insurance number. I think that Donagh's link indicates this.
I may be wrong, I have only done my sums very roughly from the figures that were in the pdf Donagh linked to but it seems that there are as many foreign nationals in Catholic and Protestant communities - that prompts me to ask the question again I asked earlier and didn't get an answer to.
Maybe it's because they are perceived as being Catholics that they are being attacked ?
No. All races, colours and creeds are subject to racism in Ireland and if you want to be specific, in south Belfast. Why do you keep trying to make this something it obviously isn't? Obviously a Catholic, black homosexual would be the mother lode but anyone different is a target for these ballbags.
I know people who lived in these areas who respectively were called "a speccy cnut" for having the temerity to wear glasses, "a hippy bawstard" for having hair more than an inch in length and one mate was called "a snabby cnut" for walking up the street from the shop whilst reading the back page of The Times.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 18, 2009, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 18, 2009, 09:45:02 AM
PS the document i found with more recent figures
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc)
By 2006 there where 395 filipinos officially registered as living in belfast
Also, though not really a scientific breakdown, during this period more than half of all national insurance number applications from immigrants was made in shaftsbury sq, south belfast.
from the document
"It is interesting to note that these figures for NINo applications reflects the earlier patterns of residence that were identified in the 2001 Census data, that the largest proportions of migrants are focused on the south and east of the city, with relatively smaller numbers associated with the north and west parts of Belfast. "
I don't have anything to point to regarding the number of Filipinos as it was a conversation I had with a community worker who indicated that figure I quoted. AFAIK that research hasn't been published yet. Doctors registrations would give a much more accurate picture as non-EU nationals have to apply to somewhere in England to get a national insurance number. I think that Donagh's link indicates this.
I may be wrong, I have only done my sums very roughly from the figures that were in the pdf Donagh linked to but it seems that there are as many foreign nationals in Catholic and Protestant communities - that prompts me to ask the question again I asked earlier and didn't get an answer to.
Maybe it's because they are perceived as being Catholics that they are being attacked ?
No. All races, colours and creeds are subject to racism in Ireland and if you want to be specific, in south Belfast. Why do you keep trying to make this something it obviously isn't? Obviously a Catholic, black homosexual would be the mother lode but anyone different is a target for these ballbags.
I know people who lived in these areas who respectively were called "a speccy cnut" for having the temerity to wear glasses, "a hippy bawstard" for having hair more than an inch in length and one mate was called "a snabby cnut" for walking up the street from the shop whilst reading the back page of The Times.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 18, 2009, 10:31:09 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 18, 2009, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 18, 2009, 09:45:02 AM
PS the document i found with more recent figures
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc)
By 2006 there where 395 filipinos officially registered as living in belfast
Also, though not really a scientific breakdown, during this period more than half of all national insurance number applications from immigrants was made in shaftsbury sq, south belfast.
from the document
"It is interesting to note that these figures for NINo applications reflects the earlier patterns of residence that were identified in the 2001 Census data, that the largest proportions of migrants are focused on the south and east of the city, with relatively smaller numbers associated with the north and west parts of Belfast. "
I don't have anything to point to regarding the number of Filipinos as it was a conversation I had with a community worker who indicated that figure I quoted. AFAIK that research hasn't been published yet. Doctors registrations would give a much more accurate picture as non-EU nationals have to apply to somewhere in England to get a national insurance number. I think that Donagh's link indicates this.
I may be wrong, I have only done my sums very roughly from the figures that were in the pdf Donagh linked to but it seems that there are as many foreign nationals in Catholic and Protestant communities - that prompts me to ask the question again I asked earlier and didn't get an answer to.
Maybe it's because they are perceived as being Catholics that they are being attacked ?
No. All races, colours and creeds are subject to racism in Ireland and if you want to be specific, in south Belfast. Why do you keep trying to make this something it obviously isn't? Obviously a Catholic, black homosexual would be the mother lode but anyone different is a target for these ballbags.
I know people who lived in these areas who respectively were called "a speccy cnut" for having the temerity to wear glasses, "a hippy bawstard" for having hair more than an inch in length and one mate was called "a snabby cnut" for walking up the street from the shop whilst reading the back page of The Times.
Tony, who are 'these ballbags' ?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 18, 2009, 09:31:10 PM
Maybe it's because they are perceived as being Catholics that they are being attacked ?
Maybe, but there have been problems for chinese and south africans there in recent years.
Not to say these boyos arent sectarian too, but i dont think the perceived (if incorrect) religion is necessarily the major driver - in the same way it was irrelevant when they are the subject of racism in dublin for example.
This is the worst Daily Mail poll ever. Though not directly about the racism in Belfast, I think it suits this thread rather than starting a new one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/polls/poll.html?pollId=1011506 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/polls/poll.html?pollId=1011506)
People are voting YES to skew the results.
Are you a Daily Mail reader Ziggy?
Is it worse than
should prince charles keep his opinions to himself?
or
which one of the big brother housemates do you find more irritating?
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2009, 03:00:20 PM
Are you a Daily Mail reader Ziggy?
Is it worse than
should prince charles keep his opinions to himself?
or
which one of the big brother housemates do you find more irritating?
I like these
Can Andy Murray win Wimbledon?
2 Days later....Will Andy Murray win Wimbledon?
Looking forward to.....If Andy Murray doesn't wiin Wimbledon, who will?
The opportunities are endless.
The follow up to Ziggy's will be - Should gypsies be allowed to use the NHS?
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2009, 03:00:20 PM
Are you a Daily Mail reader Ziggy?
Good God no, I'm not a Daily Mail reader
Quote from: ziggysego on June 19, 2009, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2009, 03:00:20 PM
Are you a Daily Mail reader Ziggy?
Good God no, I'm not a Daily Mail reader
What were you doing looking at the poll then?
Can someone open a poll....what's worse, twitter or the daily mail?
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 19, 2009, 03:27:22 PM
Can someone open a poll....what's worse, twitter or the daily mail?
BEBO
I heard a guy on from the housing executive yesterday on radio ulster who stated clearly that none of the romanians were in receipt of housing benefit or any other state benifit. It should not matter but the Romas are portrayed as parasites coming over to life off the state by people who like to dehumanise them before attacking them. The guy was very clear about the set up, they all lived in private rented accommadation and were self sufficient although obviously they were far from being well off.
QuoteRantzen - NI 'addicted to hatred'
Esther Rantzen was speaking on the BBC's Question Time programme
Television presenter Esther Rantzen has defended remarks about Northern Ireland people being "addicted to hatred".
She made the comments on the BBC's Question Time about a spate of attacks on Romanians in Belfast in recent days.
Ms Rantzen said Northern Ireland had offered the world "a gleam of hope" but "suddenly in that society there erupts this new racism".
"It's as if it gives them a sense of identity because they only know who they are if they know who they hate."
The attacks met with widespread condemnation throughout Northern Ireland.
Ms Rantzen said she had been suggesting that "there may be people who miss the old days, that violence has become addictive".
"Why do they feel uninhibited enough to turn racial prejudice into violence? You see a lot of prejudice in the rest of the UK, but why turn it into violence?
"Is violence something which is so fresh in people's memories that they remember it with affection?"
The former That's Life presenter last month announced she was considering standing for election in the seat of Luton South, in protest at revelations surrounding the expenses claims of the local Labour MP, Margaret Moran.
True of some people, but such a sweeping generalisation isn't much better than racism, is it?
Saw her on question time last night - she's just like a tabloid, big headlines and grand statements to appease the masses. Likely to be successful at the next elections then.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 18, 2009, 10:43:48 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 18, 2009, 10:31:09 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 18, 2009, 09:31:10 PM
Quote from: nifan on June 18, 2009, 09:45:02 AM
PS the document i found with more recent figures
http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc (http://www.conflictresearch.org.uk/cms/images/stories/New%20Migrants%20and%20Belfast.doc)
By 2006 there where 395 filipinos officially registered as living in belfast
Also, though not really a scientific breakdown, during this period more than half of all national insurance number applications from immigrants was made in shaftsbury sq, south belfast.
from the document
"It is interesting to note that these figures for NINo applications reflects the earlier patterns of residence that were identified in the 2001 Census data, that the largest proportions of migrants are focused on the south and east of the city, with relatively smaller numbers associated with the north and west parts of Belfast. "
I don't have anything to point to regarding the number of Filipinos as it was a conversation I had with a community worker who indicated that figure I quoted. AFAIK that research hasn't been published yet. Doctors registrations would give a much more accurate picture as non-EU nationals have to apply to somewhere in England to get a national insurance number. I think that Donagh's link indicates this.
I may be wrong, I have only done my sums very roughly from the figures that were in the pdf Donagh linked to but it seems that there are as many foreign nationals in Catholic and Protestant communities - that prompts me to ask the question again I asked earlier and didn't get an answer to.
Maybe it's because they are perceived as being Catholics that they are being attacked ?
No. All races, colours and creeds are subject to racism in Ireland and if you want to be specific, in south Belfast. Why do you keep trying to make this something it obviously isn't? Obviously a Catholic, black homosexual would be the mother lode but anyone different is a target for these ballbags.
I know people who lived in these areas who respectively were called "a speccy cnut" for having the temerity to wear glasses, "a hippy bawstard" for having hair more than an inch in length and one mate was called "a snabby cnut" for walking up the street from the shop whilst reading the back page of The Times.
Tony, who are 'these ballbags' ?
If I knew I'd tell the police.
Northern Ireland should organise a friendly with Romania as an act of friendship between the 2 countries.
Quote from: ifa fan on June 19, 2009, 09:42:04 PM
Northern Ireland should organise a friendly with Romania as an act of friendship between the 2 countries.
Why?
Quote from: ziggysego on June 19, 2009, 09:45:21 PM
Quote from: ifa fan on June 19, 2009, 09:42:04 PM
Northern Ireland should organise a friendly with Romania as an act of friendship between the 2 countries.
Why?
to show we are not all combat 18 lovers, and are good people at heart and some of the money raised could go to projects involving foreigners in belfast.
It could also help unite foreigners and us.
Would Romania be a soccer country? If it isn't, there wouldn't be much to it.
think he has to be taking the piss here ziggy - the poland match didnt do much for race relations after all...
Quote from: ziggysego on June 19, 2009, 09:58:39 PM
Would Romania be a soccer country? If it isn't, there wouldn't be much to it.
Did you watch Italia 90 or USA 94?
Was thinking that too - 'Hagi'-mania!!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 19, 2009, 10:18:59 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 19, 2009, 09:58:39 PM
Would Romania be a soccer country? If it isn't, there wouldn't be much to it.
Did you watch Italia 90 or USA 94?
Or France '98/Euro 2000 when they beat the Englanders (thanks Phil Neville)
Quote from: Chrisowc on June 19, 2009, 03:27:22 PM
Can someone open a poll....what's worse, twitter or the daily mail?
Why not do it yourself, Chris?
Quote from: Minder on June 17, 2009, 10:44:06 AM
Has a rally been organised at the City Hall yet so we can "unite against this scourge" ?
Later than i thought
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8110950.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8112828.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8112688.stm
Whilst in now way "justifying" or excusing the despicable attacks on those Romanian people (nothing can), these two reports from today alone demonstrate that bitterness and hatred are hardly the preserve of one community in NI. In particular, attempting to burn down a hall whilst 300 people are inside is utterly shocking.
The more I think about it, the more I agree Ziggy got it right when he posted:
"I'm ashamed and embarrassed of my fellow Irish man and woman in Belfast. This is disgraceful behaviour. The poor Romanians are coming to the north for a better live.
However I am also disgusted as to how the reasoning on this thread has turned.
This is NOT a Protestant v Catholic issuse. It's not even a Protestant v immigrant issuse. It IS a scum v decent people issue"
It'sd crowd of loyalists who always had connections to Combat 18. That night in Windsor Park it was Paul McGrath got the worst abuse of the lot... racist bile.
Quote from: Minder on June 19, 2009, 10:31:29 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 19, 2009, 10:18:59 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on June 19, 2009, 09:58:39 PM
Would Romania be a soccer country? If it isn't, there wouldn't be much to it.
Did you watch Italia 90 or USA 94?
Or France '98/Euro 2000 when they beat the Englanders (thanks Phil Neville)
Na, don't follow soccer.
Quote
One hundred Romanians who fled their homes in Belfast after a spate of recent attacks have decided to leave Northern Ireland and return to Romania.
Social Development Minister Margaret Ritchie said 25 people had already left and 75 were going to leave as soon as they could, 14 will stay in NI.
Meanwhile, a man has been remanded in custody charged with intimidating Romanian people in Belfast.
Shane Murphy, 21, of Donegall Road in the city, denies the charge.
His solicitor, who had applied for bail on his client's behalf, said Mr Murphy also denied a further charge of acting provocatively by shouting racist comments at a rally held on Lisburn Road in the city last week.
The judge, sitting at Belfast Magistrates Court, refused a bail application because he said there was a danger Mr Murphy could interfere with witnesses.
On Monday, a 15-year-old boy appeared in court charged in connection with the same incidents.
A 16-year-old boy appeared alongside him accused of provocative behaviour at the anti-racism rally.
The Housing Executive is paying for the families, members of the Roma ethnic group, to return to Romania using emergency funds.
A spokesman for the Northern Ireland Council for Ethnic Minorities said it was likely the remaining families would leave before the end of the week.
Police have arrested three men in connection with the church attack
"We have all spoken to the the Romanian families and the majority of them want to go home," he said.
City Church, which last week provided temporary overnight shelter for the ethnic Roma, was targeted by vandals on Monday night.
Three men, all aged 20, have been arrested in connection with the attack.
Pastor Malcolm Morgan said the church was covered in broken glass.
"I arrived this morning to find windows smashed at the front of our church and our main glass doorway smashed as well," he said.
"Stones were lying scattered on the floor inside and outside and obviously broken glass was everywhere.
"It would be easy to conclude it was carried out by someone who didn't like our response to the Romanians, but that is only guess work.
"We were just so thrilled that we were able to respond to the Romanian situation and these broken windows wouldn't have stopped us anyway."
Windows at the church were broken
The church provided shelter for about 20 Romanian familes
Mrs Ritchie said she was saddened, but not shocked at the incident.
"The action of these mindless thugs greatly contrasts with the outpouring of warmth and generosity demonstrated by the people of Belfast toward the plight of the Romanians," she said.
"This church community was the first to extend the hand of friendship and that makes it doubly disgraceful that it should be attacked."
On Monday night, another two youths, aged 16 and 17, were arrested in connection with provocative conduct and intimidation.
Police do not believe paramilitaries were involved in last week's attacks, which were condemned by all political parties.
15 and 16 year olds.
i wonder will their parents do anything other than claim they are the victims here?
Less rose sellers outside The Bot then.
were the 15 and 16 year olds not coming out of a bar?
they should do the bar while they're there. Scummy hole that place.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 23, 2009, 05:32:22 PM
Less rose sellers outside The Bot then.
I've never seen 5 day old babies selling roses Archie but whatever floats your racist boat...
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 23, 2009, 05:32:22 PM
Less rose sellers outside The Bot then.
Hardstation will be a relieved man as there was one that stood at the bottom of the steps to the First Trust cash machine in Andytown. I suppose it was a good tactic as when I withdraw money I always looking for a beggar to slip them a crisp twenty.
Bet you slipped them worse.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 23, 2009, 05:41:30 PM
were the 15 and 16 year olds not coming out of a bar?
they should do the bar while they're there. Scummy hole that place.
what bar was it?
So they go home, who wins?
Quote from: longrunsthefox on June 23, 2009, 05:49:09 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on June 23, 2009, 05:32:22 PM
Less rose sellers outside The Bot then.
I've never seen 5 day old babies selling roses Archie but whatever floats your racist boat...
It's not being racist, I was just making an observation.
And last time I was at The Bot, it was more than 5 days before the incident so would'nt have seen any 5 day old babies selling roses.
City MLA warned of racist threat
Anna Lo said she had received hate mail in recent weeks
Northern's Ireland only assembly member from an ethnic minority said she has been notified of a threat to her life.
In the assembly on Monday Alliance MLA Anna Lo said police warned her at the weekend that her home may be attacked.
Ms Lo, originally from Hong Kong, has lived in Belfast for over 30 years and represents a constituency in the south of the city.
Earlier this month attacks on the Romanian community in the area forced more than 100 people from their homes.
Ms Lo said she had received some hate mail in recent weeks and will step up her security following an anonymous call to the PSNI on Saturday.
"I'm not going to be deterred by these people," she said.
"If they think that they can stop me from speaking out against them or speaking for the vulnerable people, new ethnic minority communities or migrant workers they are mistaken."
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8125588.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8125588.stm)
A man arrested following an attack on a Belfast church is the son of a leading QC, the BBC has learned.
Last Tuesday, windows were smashed at City Church in the Holylands area. It was used to shelter Roma families who fled their homes after racist attacks.
Police have said they do not believe there was a link between the incidents.
One of the three men arrested was law student Niall Colton. His father is Adrian Colton QC, and his mother is also a solicitor.
Both are past presidents of the students' union at Queen's University in Belfast.
One of the three men arrested was released unconditionally.
Reports have been sent to the Public Prosecution Service in relation to the other two.
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8130510.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8130510.stm)
Looks like spides are owed an apology.
What an idiot.
Afaik if he gets prosecuted does he not bar himself from practicing Law?
Costly pint.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 02, 2009, 01:25:57 PM
What an idiot.
Afaik if he gets prosecuted does he not bar himself from practicing Law?
Costly pint.
I think you are right - when I was at Queen's, there was a ballbag I know doing Law, who dented a car bonnet whilst "hilariously" running over cars in the Holylands. Well, he got nabbed and was on the verge of getting his card marked for criminal damage until he went crying his lamps out to the car owner not to proceed and he would pay for the damage, suck his wab etc. as he would be excluded from being a solicitor.
Slap it into him.
Quote from: ziggysego on July 02, 2009, 12:54:18 PM
A man arrested following an attack on a Belfast church is the son of a leading QC, the BBC has learned.
Last Tuesday, windows were smashed at City Church in the Holylands area. It was used to shelter Roma families who fled their homes after racist attacks.
Police have said they do not believe there was a link between the incidents.
One of the three men arrested was law student Niall Colton. His father is Adrian Colton QC, and his mother is also a solicitor.
Both are past presidents of the students' union at Queen's University in Belfast.
One of the three men arrested was released unconditionally.
Reports have been sent to the Public Prosecution Service in relation to the other two.
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8130510.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8130510.stm)
Maybe he can take it to the DRA on appeal! :D
Drunken mistake by a young guy who shouldn't have done it - I'm sure some on here have done worse.
I don't know why someone told the BBC about this today - he hasn't been charged and this wasn't even in court in the last few days so seems to be someone decided to tip the BBC off.
His dad has done a hell of a lot for the GAA (not just in Tyrone).
I doubt very much will come of it, most likely a caution or fine with a conditional discharge. He'll be more worried about the embarrassment he's caused everyone. I know of a boy who threw a chair through a window of the students union during a riot in the early 80's and is now a very respectable solicitor, despite being arrested and charged. Same boy would coincidently move in the same circles as Colton.
If this lad was a non-student from the Ormeau Rd how would things have turned out?
Causing criminal damage to a place of worship is f*cking low
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 02, 2009, 02:53:02 PM
If this lad was a non-student from the Ormeau Rd how would things have turned out?
What do you mean?
If he was a non-student (he is from the Ormeau Rd by the way), why would his name be the headline in the BBC Radio Ulster news on a day when his case isn't even in court, and when he hasn't been charged?
What he did was bad, of course, but there were others involved too - no names released there. Wonder why?
My brother in law (strangely enough one of Colton's former pupils at the bar) was arrested when at Queens for stealing a load of free newspapers one night when he was drunk. Had to get his lecturer to get him off so that he could practice law.
Are you defending this fella Rois ???
what i am saying is if he was from a working class background people would have a totally different view of the incident. All students need to have their wits about them on a night out and none more so than law students.
Defending his actions - where did you get that from?
I was condemning the BBC's style of selective reporting.
Ah fitzroyalty I know, stupid idiot of course, should have known better. But to single out the family for embarrassment - just not nice.
I hope they through the book at all the perpretrators of race hate crime.
Quote from: Rois on July 02, 2009, 02:34:15 PM
Drunken mistake by a young guy who shouldn't have done it - I'm sure some on here have done worse.
I don't know why someone told the BBC about this today - he hasn't been charged and this wasn't even in court in the last few days so seems to be someone decided to tip the BBC off.
His dad has done a hell of a lot for the GAA (not just in Tyrone).
Who cares what his father done?
Drunk or not, he acted like a sc**bag and deserves everything he gets.
QuoteDrunken mistake by a young guy who shouldn't have done it - I'm sure some on here have done worse.
I'm very surprised you made that statement rois.
Vindictive reporting yes, but that does not excuse what he's done.
Throw the book at him and whoever else was involved.
Disgusting, what goes through their minds, I've done some stupid things yes but nothing racial, criminal and especially not involving a place of worship.
Remember it's a vile racist attack if you're some spide from the Ormeau. If you're an upper middle class student then it's a drunken prank gone wrong. Because of this and who his parents are he'll pay some cash and nothing more will be said of it.
Tb, unfortunately you are right
Aras aris... well done! this lad has been found guilty on the board befiore he has been charged! No-one wonder how the press got hold of the fact he was arrested?... PSNI agenda at work. was same with Owen Mulligan befoe too and splashed all over the front page of the Irish News and here too. He weren't even charged!!! foxache ::)
Let's see if he is convicted first and then hammer him ::)
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 02, 2009, 08:44:48 PM
Aras aris... well done! this lad has been found guilty on the board befiore he has been charged! No-one wonder how the press got hold of the fact he was arrested?... PSNI agenda at work. was same with Owen Mulligan befoe too and splashed all over the front page of the Irish News and here too. He weren't even charged!!! foxache ::)
Let's see if he is convicted first and then hammer him ::)
It's our job.
If I remember the original news reports, they stated that the peelers had clear CCTV images of the culprits, if he's innocent then it will come out.
Though I'd be very surprised if the media would mention his name unless the case against him was rock solid.
Donagh, unless his father can pull a few strings, the lad will be made an example of - racist attacks and someone to blame (even if he was the lesser villian, as compared to the animals who instigated the attacks), don't think a slap on the wrist will suffice for this one (even worse for the "poor bastard" he's a fenian with a high profile dad).
As I said before costly pint.
Very well said HS
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2009, 10:03:14 PM
If he is proven to be guilty:
I don't care how drunk he was.
I don't care who his da is and what he has done for anyone or anything.
I don't care where he is from.
I don't care what religion he is.
Talk of him being any better than the "animals who instigated it" is ridiculous.
If he did it, he is the scum of the earth and should be treated as such.
It is strange how the situation changes for some on this board when the villain is a middle class Catholic sc**bag rather than a Loyalist sc**bag.
If he did it.
Correct Hardstation, the hypocricy on the board never ceases to amaze me.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 02, 2009, 09:50:12 PM
If I remember the original news reports, they stated that the peelers had clear CCTV images of the culprits, if he's innocent then it will come out.
Though I'd be very surprised if the media would mention his name unless the case against him was rock solid.
Donagh, unless his father can pull a few strings, the lad will be made an example of - racist attacks and someone to blame (even if he was the lesser villian, as compared to the animals who instigated the attacks), don't think a slap on the wrist will suffice for this one (even worse for the "poor b**tard" he's a fenian with a high profile dad).
As I said before costly pint.
How would the media know if the case against him is solid? ... unless of course someone from the police is slipping information to them. While it was far worse I am old enough to remember the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4 and rush to judgement when they were arrested.
As for having faith in the PSNI :-\ Is people here hammering this fello and think it is okay then if they write at the end... if he is guilty.
maybe he is... wait and see first
You think the media would leave themselves open to prosecution if this fella didn't do it ?
Unlikely but we shall see.
Until then I can only echo what has been said, fcking disgusting act altogether and those responsible should be severely reprimanded.
So Fox the spides that carried out the initial attacks were afforded the same "wait and see attitude" ? Would you be as keen for people to wait for the courts to find him guilty/innocent if he was some hood from Tigers Bay? I wonder............
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2009, 10:03:14 PM
If he is proven to be guilty:
I don't care how drunk he was.
I don't care who his da is and what he has done for anyone or anything.
I don't care where he is from.
I don't care what religion he is.
Talk of him being any better than the "animals who instigated it" is ridiculous.
If he did it, he is the scum of the earth and should be treated as such.
It is strange how the situation changes for some on this board when the villain is a middle class Catholic sc**bag rather than a Loyalist sc**bag.
If he did it.
Agree 100% Hardstation. It's gone quiet in some quarters.
Fox do us a favour with the conspiracy theories please. He damaged a church which is the act of a sc**bag from any side of the house. But really what does the PSNI have to gain by tipping their hat to the media? Nothing. It'll be old news by next week.
A few people are trying to dress this up with qualifications that he's innocent until proven guilty, his da is a great gaa man etc etc. None of which matters a f**k. Such qualification in the condemnation of these acts wouldn't be forthcoming for a working class catholic or protestant.
The media have done nothing illegal saying he has been arrested but a lot of people have now asumed he is guilty. Maybe he is, maybe he is not. Was like Owen Mulligan case all over front pages in papers but when he was not charged it made about two sentences on page 8... wasn't a story for them anymore. As for hoods in Tiger Bay-dont really get that arguement. You mean If it was a hood from tigers bay would I assume he is guilty? No-how the f** would I know if he is guilty or not til goes to court.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 02, 2009, 10:36:18 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2009, 10:03:14 PM
If he is proven to be guilty:
I don't care how drunk he was.
I don't care who his da is and what he has done for anyone or anything.
I don't care where he is from.
I don't care what religion he is.
Talk of him being any better than the "animals who instigated it" is ridiculous.
If he did it, he is the scum of the earth and should be treated as such.
It is strange how the situation changes for some on this board when the villain is a middle class Catholic sc**bag rather than a Loyalist sc**bag.
If he did it.
Agree 100% Hardstation. It's gone quiet in some quarters.
Fox do us a favour with the conspiracy theories please. He damaged a church which is the act of a sc**bag from any side of the house. But really what does the PSNI have to gain by tipping their hat to the media? Nothing. It'll be old news by next week.
A few people are trying to dress this up with qualifications that he's innocent until proven guilty, his da is a great gaa man etc etc. None of which matters a f**k. Such qualification in the condemnation of these acts wouldn't be forthcoming for a working class catholic or protestant.
Am having diffs highlighting text here but Baloney were you say, "He damaged a church which is an act of a sc**bag..." That is unreal-hope you never get put on jury service
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 02, 2009, 10:37:35 PM
The media have done nothing illegal saying he has been arrested but a lot of people have now asumed he is guilty. Maybe he is, maybe he is not. Was like Owen Mulligan case all over front pages in papers but when he was not charged it made about two sentences on page 8... wasn't a story for them anymore. As for hoods in Tiger Bay-dont really get that arguement. You mean If it was a hood from tigers bay would I assume he is guilty? No-how the f** would I know if he is guilty or not til goes to court.
Are you taking the piss? This time last week you were announcing you were glad a man was dead because he was a paedophile yet that man had never been convicted of anything.
I dont understand ???
Are you following me pints :-*
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 02, 2009, 10:55:57 PM
Are you following me pints :-*
No, but I'd like to know what the difference is?
Well the last time we got at this I got a ban... if this boy pays $40 million to the church to stay out of court and there is video footage of him running towards the church with a bottle in his hand I will say he is guilty whether the court clears him or not... you know like the late MJ admitting he liked getting into bed with other peoples children :o
who ???
When the f** was I in court ?
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 02, 2009, 11:03:02 PM
Well the last time we got at this I got a ban... if this boy pays $40 million to the church to stay out of court and there is video footage of him running towards the church with a bottle in his hand I will say he is guilty whether the court clears him or not... you know like the late MJ admitting he liked getting into bed with other peoples children :o
Well that's not what you got banned for is it? Anyway, lets not get bogged down in that.
You have been crying on this thread about people assuming this fella was guilty yet you assume Jackson was guilty. I think it says it all, I'm done here.
Did I not read on the board pints you are an advocate of beating children... says it all too. I think you are trying to lure to get another ban. Yeah, me too, done here
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 02, 2009, 11:16:12 PM
Did I not read on the board pints you are an advocate of beating children... says it all too. I think you are trying to lure to get another ban. Yeah, me too, done here
I think you're just caught talking shite. :D
HS and the rest of you warriors, in no way was I condoning what this lad did (if he did - reasonable still to assume innocent until proven guilty? ::)).
I don't give a shitte who his father is, I don't give a shitte what his religion is (I mentioned this as a reason why he may well be prosecuted rather then have a slap on the wrist!).
FFS now let me spell it out, IF the boy is convicted then he deserves the full force of the law brought down on him, cowardly and disgusting act.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 02, 2009, 11:17:51 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 02, 2009, 11:16:12 PM
Did I not read on the board pints you are an advocate of beating children... says it all too. I think you are trying to lure to get another ban. Yeah, me too, done here
I think you're just caught talking shite. :D
;)
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2009, 11:24:28 PM
GDA, you said "even if he was the lesser villian, as compared to the animals who instigated the attacks". I don't buy that at all.
As for your "Costly pint" comment. I believe that to be nonsense also.
Well HS if they put as much effort into getting the animals (would use the same word for the boys who stoned the church) who drove aprox. 100-130 Romas out of the north as they are doing now with these ones then I'll be very happy.
The more rascist cnuts they get off the streets the better. Be they green or orange.
As for the costly pint remark - well its pretty obvious what thats in reference to, and if proven quite relevent.
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2009, 11:41:03 PM
The costly pint remark is a load of horseshit, in my opinion.
I'll throw this one at you:
A group of men leave a pub in Coleraine (presumably drunk). They give some poor man a kicking because he is Catholic, which leads to his death.
Costly pint?
A group of men who have been drinking all day in Belfast city centre decide to dander up Castle St to slabber and fight with Fenians. They slice an innocent man's throat outside Cosgroves.
Costly pint (had they been caught)?
Bollix.
Ah ffs HS thought you had a wee bit of cope on - "costly pint" because the dick is studying Law and if he's convicted then his chosen career path is fcuked. Nothing more nothing less - and please don't waste your time trying to read any more into it. Comment made because of the fellas circumstances.
Can believe I am going to say this but I have to agree with hardstation.
We`ve all walked past various churches of different denominations with plenty of booze on board and none of us have ever felt the need to attack them for any reason whatsoever.
Why did Rois delete her post? Didn't think there was anything contentious in it.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 12:09:15 AM
Can believe I am going to say this but I have to agree with hardstation.
We`ve all walked past various churches of different denominations with plenty of booze on board and none of us have ever felt the need to attack them for any reason whatsoever.
You could write a book on that 'phenomenon' but it's a book that won't be written for a good few years.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 03, 2009, 12:20:32 AM
Why did Rois delete her post? Didn't think there was anything contentious in it.
Ah I'm posting too much on this - I obviously know the family and my posts are starting to make me sound like I am excusing someone breaking windows in a church.
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
What? His law degree? I don't give a shit about that.
My point was that this is not a "drunken mistake" and that his "pint", had feck all to do with it. This was an act of a sc**bag.
Who knows why he did it (if proven - yawn), and of course it was the act of a sc**bag, no disagreement there. Just accept the statement in the context it was said.
It's not condoning anything nor excusing anything. If he was a trainee spark and this would have affected his career then it would still have been a "costly pint (action)".
It's probably safe to assume that drink was taken - as these cowards rarely operate with out dutch courage. Again not an excuse - getting a bit tired having to qualify each point btw.
Quote from: Rois on July 03, 2009, 12:28:38 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 03, 2009, 12:20:32 AM
Why did Rois delete her post? Didn't think there was anything contentious in it.
Ah I'm posting too much on this - I obviously know the family and my posts are starting to make me sound like I am excusing someone breaking windows in a church.
I hope we can tell the difference between defending the act and defending the family, which is natural if you know them obviously. We'll give you a pass on this one ;)
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 03, 2009, 12:32:14 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
What? His law degree? I don't give a shit about that.
My point was that this is not a "drunken mistake" and that his "pint", had feck all to do with it. This was an act of a sc**bag.
Who knows why he did it (if proven - yawn), and of course it was the act of a sc**bag, no disagreement there. Just accept the statement in the context it was said.
It's not condoning anything nor excusing anything. If he was a trainee spark and this would have affected his career then it would still have been a "costly pint (action)".
It's probably safe to assume that drink was taken - as these cowards rarely operate with out dutch courage. Again not an excuse - getting a bit tired having to qualify each point btw.
Here we go- I dont get why you have a problem saying ..if proven. he has only been arrested and in this country of all places have we not learnt by now that certainly is not neccesarily mean he is guilty? Maybe he is tho... maybe not. and before anyone says MJ there was a bit more than an arrest leads me to be sure of his guilt..
Some confused thinking going on here lads. The county footballer referred to earlier is not only a public figure but a household name. If he is arrested in connection with the possession of an offensive weapon and criminal damage, outside a bar in the middle of his home town, on the weekend that his team goes out of the Ulster championship, it is obviously going to be reported somewhere. If it all gets sorted out without a prosecution, that's fine.
No one, outside their friends and families, has ever heard of the people arrested in Carmel Street. The identity of their parents should have very little to do with it. If they are convicted of an offence,which is likely to be criminal damage, they fully deserve to be punished in the normal and appropriate way. The police have said on the record that it is not being treated as a racist crime, so the background may not be a million miles away from the previous case.
If there is a middle class conspiracy here, it did not prevent all the publicity associated with a dubious intervention from the BBC. In the circumstances, perhaps we should avoid jumping to conclusions until the evidence is presented before a court
Quote from: Oldhacker on July 03, 2009, 12:46:06 AM
Some confused thinking going on here lads. The county footballer referred to earlier is not only a public figure but a household name. If he is arrested in connection with the possession of an offensive weapon and criminal damage, outside a bar in the middle of his home town, on the weekend that his team goes out of the Ulster championship, it is obviously going to be reported somewhere. If it all gets sorted out without a prosecution, that's fine.
No one, outside their friends and families, has ever heard of the people arrested in Carmel Street. The identity of their parents should have very little to do with it. If they are convicted of an offence,which is likely to be criminal damage, they fully deserve to be punished in the normal and appropriate way. The police have said on the record that it is not being treated as a racist crime, so the background may not be a million miles away from the previous case.
If there is a middle class conspiracy here, it did not prevent all the publicity associated with a dubious intervention from the BBC. In the circumstances, perhaps we should avoid jumping to conclusions until the evidence is presented before a court
Do you think the press should have given the fact no charge was made against said footballer the same front page coverage? it was buried in a few papers and they were probably gutted no conviction for their front page.
If its not a racist crime its certainly sectarian. What sort of a sc**bag breaks windows at a place of worship.
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 03, 2009, 12:44:28 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 03, 2009, 12:32:14 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
What? His law degree? I don't give a shit about that.
My point was that this is not a "drunken mistake" and that his "pint", had feck all to do with it. This was an act of a sc**bag.
Who knows why he did it (if proven - yawn), and of course it was the act of a sc**bag, no disagreement there. Just accept the statement in the context it was said.
It's not condoning anything nor excusing anything. If he was a trainee spark and this would have affected his career then it would still have been a "costly pint (action)".
It's probably safe to assume that drink was taken - as these cowards rarely operate with out dutch courage. Again not an excuse - getting a bit tired having to qualify each point btw.
Here we go- I dont get why you have a problem saying ..if proven. he has only been arrested and in this country of all places have we not learnt by now that certainly is not neccesarily mean he is guilty? Maybe he is tho... maybe not. and before anyone says MJ there was a bit more than an arrest leads me to be sure of his guilt..
Actually read my posts I have no problem saying it.
HS I've already called the perpetrators of the disgust crime scumbags (not sure how much more I can show my abhorrence at this terrible crime), also you seem to have taken umbrage at my remark about "costly pint" - your getting sidetracked whether intentionally or not.
These people are animals who have attacked a place of worship - end of.
As for your final remark, I would like to think I'm generally balanced in most of my views. I was not saying drink was an excuse, only that imo drink was probably taken, just like in your opinion the lad is guilty already.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 03, 2009, 09:06:05 AM
HS I've already called the perpetrators of the disgust crime scumbags (not sure how much more I can show my abhorrence at this terrible crime), also you seem to have taken umbrage at my remark about "costly pint" - your getting sidetracked whether intentionally or not.
These people are animals who have attacked a place of worship - end of.
As for your final remark, I would like to think I'm generally balanced in most of my views. I was not saying drink was an excuse, only that imo drink was probably taken, just like in your opinion the lad is guilty already.
Why mention drink so?
Quote from: ludermor on July 03, 2009, 09:14:28 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 03, 2009, 09:06:05 AM
HS I've already called the perpetrators of the disgust crime scumbags (not sure how much more I can show my abhorrence at this terrible crime), also you seem to have taken umbrage at my remark about "costly pint" - your getting sidetracked whether intentionally or not.
These people are animals who have attacked a place of worship - end of.
As for your final remark, I would like to think I'm generally balanced in most of my views. I was not saying drink was an excuse, only that imo drink was probably taken, just like in your opinion the lad is guilty already.
Why mention drink so?
Jesus read my first post on this this yesterday!
I said "costly pint" at the f**king end of the post as an observation that the fellas chosen career path is now probably fucked - could you not read any f**king more into this then that please and get back to discussing the topic at hand!
Christ are youse trying to wind me up?
Still dont know why the need to mention it, are you trying to say if he wasnt drinking he would have done it?
Are you not making big assumptions that drink was involved?
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 03, 2009, 08:52:06 AM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 03, 2009, 12:44:28 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 03, 2009, 12:32:14 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 03, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
What? His law degree? I don't give a shit about that.
My point was that this is not a "drunken mistake" and that his "pint", had feck all to do with it. This was an act of a sc**bag.
Who knows why he did it (if proven - yawn), and of course it was the act of a sc**bag, no disagreement there. Just accept the statement in the context it was said.
It's not condoning anything nor excusing anything. If he was a trainee spark and this would have affected his career then it would still have been a "costly pint (action)".
It's probably safe to assume that drink was taken - as these cowards rarely operate with out dutch courage. Again not an excuse - getting a bit tired having to qualify each point btw.
Here we go- I dont get why you have a problem saying ..if proven. he has only been arrested and in this country of all places have we not learnt by now that certainly is not neccesarily mean he is guilty? Maybe he is tho... maybe not. and before anyone says MJ there was a bit more than an arrest leads me to be sure of his guilt..
Actually read my posts I have no problem saying it.
Then why do you write, 'if proven-yawn'... wat's the yawn about?... if proven...end of story
Yawn because at that stage I had said if proven numerous times, and I was tired as well. ;)
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 03, 2009, 09:59:08 AM
Quote from: ludermor on July 03, 2009, 09:14:28 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 03, 2009, 09:06:05 AM
HS I've already called the perpetrators of the disgust crime scumbags (not sure how much more I can show my abhorrence at this terrible crime), also you seem to have taken umbrage at my remark about "costly pint" - your getting sidetracked whether intentionally or not.
These people are animals who have attacked a place of worship - end of.
As for your final remark, I would like to think I'm generally balanced in most of my views. I was not saying drink was an excuse, only that imo drink was probably taken, just like in your opinion the lad is guilty already.
Why mention drink so?
Jesus read my first post on this this yesterday!
I said "costly pint" at the f**king end of the post as an observation that the fellas chosen career path is now probably fucked - could you not read any f**king more into this then that please and get back to discussing the topic at hand!
Christ are youse trying to wind me up?
How do you know it was a pint? He could have been drinking spirits or alcopops. :D
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 03, 2009, 12:39:36 PM
How do you know it was a pint? He could have been drinking spirits or alcopops. :D
Probably Champagne! :)
Quote from: ludermor on July 03, 2009, 09:14:28 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 03, 2009, 09:06:05 AM
HS I've already called the perpetrators of the disgust crime scumbags (not sure how much more I can show my abhorrence at this terrible crime), also you seem to have taken umbrage at my remark about "costly pint" - your getting sidetracked whether intentionally or not.
These people are animals who have attacked a place of worship - end of.
As for your final remark, I would like to think I'm generally balanced in most of my views. I was not saying drink was an excuse, only that imo drink was probably taken, just like in your opinion the lad is guilty already.
Why mention drink so?
Drink doesn't absolve someone from responsibility for their actions. If this guy did this, regardless of whether he was hammered or sober, he's responsible for his actions.
But to be fair to GDA, that doesn't mean that you have to ignore that drink may well have been involved. Many people do things when they're drunk that they'd never do when sober - in that respect, it's easy to understand the idea of a 'costly pint' . It doesn't make it okay, nor does it make a perpetrator any less guilty - but I don't think anyone is saying that it does.
In fairness to the BBC the da is a pretty prominent QC and former politician so they're probably fair game. Though I'm probably biased in that I can't say I've much respect for those who took silk before McDonald and Tracey got the oath abolished, but then again I suppose Stoopers have no problems swearing oaths to foreign monarchs.
And Shinners dont get elected to her majestys parliaments at either Westminster or Stormont? Catch a grip of yourself.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 08:32:13 PM
And Shinners dont get elected to her majestys parliaments at either Westminster or Stormont? Catch a grip of yourself.
They don't take oaths of allegiance as they don't take their seats in Westminster, in Stormont they don't have to take an oath of allegiance
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 08:32:13 PM
And Shinners dont get elected to her majestys parliaments at either Westminster or Stormont? Catch a grip of yourself.
They don't take oaths of allegiance as they don't take their seats in Westminster, in Stormont they don't have to take an oath of allegiance
It's no more than a point of principle though - the oath at Westminster is nothing more than words.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 03, 2009, 08:42:55 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 08:32:13 PM
And Shinners dont get elected to her majestys parliaments at either Westminster or Stormont? Catch a grip of yourself.
They don't take oaths of allegiance as they don't take their seats in Westminster, in Stormont they don't have to take an oath of allegiance
It's no more than a point of principle though - the oath at Westminster is nothing more than words.
You just never seem to get it.
For an Irish Republican to take the oath of allegiance to a British monarch is completely anathema to their entire raison d'etre
Why do you not understand that? It is a genuine question.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 10:14:56 PM
For an Irish Republican to take the oath of allegiance to a British monarch is completely anathema to their entire raison d'etre
And governing Northern Ireland from a cosy office in Stormont is who's "raison d`etre" exactly?
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 10:26:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 10:14:56 PM
For an Irish Republican to take the oath of allegiance to a British monarch is completely anathema to their entire raison d'etre
And governing Northern Ireland from a cosy office in Stormont is who's "raison d`etre" exactly?
Exactly.
Did Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey take the oath away back when... can't really question her republican creditials all the same.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 10:26:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 10:14:56 PM
For an Irish Republican to take the oath of allegiance to a British monarch is completely anathema to their entire raison d'etre
And governing Northern Ireland from a cosy office in Stormont is who's "raison d`etre" exactly?
The electorates'
Shame on them, eh? ::)
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 11:23:18 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 10:26:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 10:14:56 PM
For an Irish Republican to take the oath of allegiance to a British monarch is completely anathema to their entire raison d'etre
And governing Northern Ireland from a cosy office in Stormont is who's "raison d`etre" exactly?
The electorates'
Shame on them, eh? ::)
Are they there against their will?
No minder and that was my point
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 11:23:18 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 10:26:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 10:14:56 PM
For an Irish Republican to take the oath of allegiance to a British monarch is completely anathema to their entire raison d'etre
And governing Northern Ireland from a cosy office in Stormont is who's "raison d`etre" exactly?
The electorates'
Shame on them, eh? ::)
And for Westminster?
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 03, 2009, 11:45:29 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 11:23:18 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 10:26:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 10:14:56 PM
For an Irish Republican to take the oath of allegiance to a British monarch is completely anathema to their entire raison d'etre
And governing Northern Ireland from a cosy office in Stormont is who's "raison d`etre" exactly?
The electorates'
Shame on them, eh? ::)
And for Westminster?
Here's what started this off;
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 08:32:13 PM
And Shinners dont get elected to her majestys parliaments at either Westminster or Stormont? Catch a grip of yourself.
They don't take oaths of allegiance as they don't take their seats in Westminster, in Stormont they don't have to take an oath of allegiance
I merely pointed out how Irish Republicans would see the oath of allegiance to the queen.
Why you want to twist the thread to a different agenda, only you can answer.
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 03, 2009, 11:11:42 PM
Did Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey take the oath away back when... can't really question her republican creditials all the same.
No she didn't take any oath.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 11:54:25 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 03, 2009, 11:45:29 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 11:23:18 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 10:26:31 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 10:14:56 PM
For an Irish Republican to take the oath of allegiance to a British monarch is completely anathema to their entire raison d'etre
And governing Northern Ireland from a cosy office in Stormont is who's "raison d`etre" exactly?
The electorates'
Shame on them, eh? ::)
And for Westminster?
Here's what started this off;
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 03, 2009, 08:32:13 PM
And Shinners dont get elected to her majestys parliaments at either Westminster or Stormont? Catch a grip of yourself.
They don't take oaths of allegiance as they don't take their seats in Westminster, in Stormont they don't have to take an oath of allegiance
I merely pointed out how Irish Republicans would see the oath of allegiance to the queen.
Why you want to twist the thread to a different agenda, only you can answer.
It's no big deal. I'm sure you could have ignored Trevor Hill's post too.
But anyway, back to the racists.
Quick one for Donagh - Seamus Tracy was appointed a QC in September 2000, after the carry-on about the oath was abolished. Adrian Colton took the same road some five years later, so your comments about him were factually wrong. It is around 20 years since he had any political involvement. Will an apology follow ?
Quote from: Oldhacker on July 04, 2009, 12:02:16 AM
Quick one for Donagh - Seamus Tracy was appointed a QC in September 2000, after the carry-on about the oath was abolished. Adrian Colton took the same road some five years later, so your comments about him were factually wrong. It is around 20 years since he had any political involvement. Will an apology follow ?
Very good hacker, I was waiting on someone pulling me on that, but why not use you regular name? Still I won't apologise for stating my belief, I've no respect for those that take an oath of allegiance to a foreign monarch be they Stoops or 'Queen's Counsel' (sic). Sure how could you trust a person like that?
Donagh how do you feel about Seamus Tracey becoming a high court judge?
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 04, 2009, 12:37:57 AM
Donagh how do you feel about Seamus Tracey becoming a high court judge?
No opinion on it to be honest but he couldn't be any worse than that **** Kerr from down the street.
Surely its a good thing to have a somewhat sympathetic judge?
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 04, 2009, 12:49:06 AM
Surely its a good thing to have a somewhat sympathetic judge?
A judge should be impartial not sympathetic to anyone, especially foreign monarchs and their lackeys.
Quote from: Donagh on July 04, 2009, 01:09:25 AM
A judge should be impartial not sympathetic to anyone, especially foreign monarchs and their lackeys.
Obviously that is true of all Judges in NI in the past ::) Who do you class as foreign monarchs and their lackeys?
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 03, 2009, 11:11:42 PM
Did Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey take the oath away back when... can't really question her republican creditials all the same.
No she didn't take any oath.
You sure ardmhachaabu? How did she avoid it? Genuine question.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 04, 2009, 11:53:11 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 03, 2009, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: longrunsthefox on July 03, 2009, 11:11:42 PM
Did Bernadette Devlin-McAliskey take the oath away back when... can't really question her republican creditials all the same.
No she didn't take any oath.
You sure ardmhachaabu? How did she avoid it? Genuine question.
She did take it, did she not?
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=azR_Rav_OMYC&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=did+bernadette+devlin+take+an+oath&source=bl&ots=AEOFsvrczd&sig=TeFsU8iXYuNQTU0V2Xh7_Ws8CTo&hl=en&ei=7DlPSrC8G5-NjAeJluGtBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4
Quote from: Donagh on July 04, 2009, 12:32:34 AM
Quote from: Oldhacker on July 04, 2009, 12:02:16 AM
Quick one for Donagh - Seamus Tracy was appointed a QC in September 2000, after the carry-on about the oath was abolished. Adrian Colton took the same road some five years later, so your comments about him were factually wrong. It is around 20 years since he had any political involvement. Will an apology follow ?
Very good hacker, I was waiting on someone pulling me on that, but why not use you regular name? Still I won't apologise for stating my belief, I've no respect for those that take an oath of allegiance to a foreign monarch be they Stoops or 'Queen's Counsel' (sic). Sure how could you trust a person like that?
It seems to me that Old Hacker has caught you out playing 'fast and loose' with the truth here, and no aspersion about his [OH's] "regular name", or re-statement of your general belief etc, will serve to deflect from that.
For this is what you originally posted on this topic, in the context of Colton being a QC (and former SDLP candidate):
"In fairness to the BBC the da is a pretty prominent QC and former politician so they're probably fair game. Though I'm probably biased in that I can't say I've much respect for those who took silk before McDonald and Tracey got the oath abolished, but then again I suppose Stoopers have no problems swearing oaths to foreign monarchs"I have no doubt that you knew that Colton took silk
after the Oath was abolished (and also that it is many years since he was involved in SDLP politics, at a fairly low level). Consequently, I have no doubt either that you deliberately chose a form of words which would clearly imply that Colton took the Oath, but
without actually saying it, thereby condemning him in the eyes of less well-informed observers than you, whilst still leaving you "wriggle room", should someone* take you up on it.
Yet when I made an erroneous point about the Alliance Party on another thread, you immediately used that as an excuse to accuse me of being a "liar" (and a "frequent" one, at that), even after I acknowledged my error, with an explanation of what had led me to get it wrong.
Familiar with the phrase "Hoist by your own Petard", Donagh? ::)
P.S. In your rush to condemn those who would "pledge allegiance to a foreign monarch", do you also include a certain Arthur Griffith, founder of, ahem, Sinn Fein, who campaigned for an Anglo-Irish Joint Monarchy, in a direct copy of the Hapsburg dominion over the two independent states of Austria and Hungary which prevailed at the time? For if Griffith had got his way, he and his fellow Shinners would have been swearing an Oath to Edward VII, King of Great Britain and
also King of Ireland... :D
* - Btw, rather than
waiting to see whether someone like OH would spot your deceit, I'd bet 'a pound to a shirt button' that you were actually
hoping no-one would.
holee feck
youd want to be a busybody of the highest order to know what year a certain judge took silk FFS !!
unless you were an ardent student of particular judges and their careers which I think is evident that mr donagh here is not ! :D
however your big post to try and have a go at him because he has shown you up for falsehoods in a prev thread is going way OTT is it not !
a lot of you are getting yer knockers in a big twist over who did , who did not and when abolished regarding oaths that mean very little when the judicial system was as corrupt as feck (and may still not be 100% perfect yet - see ruc/psni example)
as for racism in belfast, I had a very frank and eye opening discussion with a chinese guy living in dublin this past 9 years.
He says that the cinese community in Dublin and most of Ireland are left alone and welcomed, but their friends in the belfast region of Ireland are given dogs abuse by locals - normally unionist/oo people (his words paraphrased).
also he found that the chinese community were having more and more problems with african immigrants and it will spill over into violence soon as it is sporadic fights at the moment - over turf or just issues of immigration from what he was saying.
eye opening stuff I have to say, never thought about these two factions getting into a war with each other !
Ireland/dublin/Belfast are bad enough already !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 04, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
as for racism in belfast, I had a very frank and eye opening discussion with a chinese guy living in dublin this past 9 years.
He says that the cinese community in Dublin and most of Ireland are left alone and welcomed, but their friends in the belfast region of Ireland are given dogs abuse by locals - normally unionist/oo people (his words paraphrased).
It is strange though that the Chinese were really the only people who came to NI during the dark years. Also strange that so many of them lived/had businesses in Loyalists areas - and still do. You would think that if they had been getting abuse, particularly from one side, that they would have moved over into neutral or nationalist/republican areas, if they were better.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 04, 2009, 01:44:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 04, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
as for racism in belfast, I had a very frank and eye opening discussion with a chinese guy living in dublin this past 9 years.
He says that the cinese community in Dublin and most of Ireland are left alone and welcomed, but their friends in the belfast region of Ireland are given dogs abuse by locals - normally unionist/oo people (his words paraphrased).
It is strange though that the Chinese were really the only people who came to NI during the dark years. Also strange that so many of them lived/had businesses in Loyalists areas - and still do. You would think that if they had been getting abuse, particularly from one side, that they would have moved over into neutral or nationalist/republican areas, if they were better.
The reason that the chinese community settled in Loyalist areas is due to the availability of housing. At that time, and it still continues, there wasnt any available houses in Nationalist areas. There where very few if any nuetral areas at that time.
Remember going to a chinese restaurant in Clare one time. Most vile unrelenting racist abuse i've ever heard. Disgusting!! it was so bad that i spoke to the group of people who were the worst offenders saying that i found their views disgusting and politely asking them to can it.. They thought I was joking!! I had to spend 5 minutes getting them to understand what i was on about. Got a free feed out of it though. :D [i know, i soundlike TF]
Also some of the views i've heard on other minority groups in the republic is despicable. From a country that takes such pride in its famed diaspora it is really puzzling, not to say disgraceful.
EG, you've obviously been lying in the long grass, i bet you enjoyed that one :D :D
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 04, 2009, 01:44:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 04, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
as for racism in belfast, I had a very frank and eye opening discussion with a chinese guy living in dublin this past 9 years.
He says that the cinese community in Dublin and most of Ireland are left alone and welcomed, but their friends in the belfast region of Ireland are given dogs abuse by locals - normally unionist/oo people (his words paraphrased).
It is strange though that the Chinese were really the only people who came to NI during the dark years. Also strange that so many of them lived/had businesses in Loyalists areas - and still do. You would think that if they had been getting abuse, particularly from one side, that they would have moved over into neutral or nationalist/republican areas, if they were better.
there ya go !
you (not you personally) just cant understand people and their reasoning !
think oakleaf has given a good response regarding the housing reason - or at least one reason
but as I got this straight from a chinese guy, I have no reason to question him (he also does not know I am from the north either so it was an honest view from him!)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 04, 2009, 03:18:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 04, 2009, 01:44:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 04, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
as for racism in belfast, I had a very frank and eye opening discussion with a chinese guy living in dublin this past 9 years.
He says that the cinese community in Dublin and most of Ireland are left alone and welcomed, but their friends in the belfast region of Ireland are given dogs abuse by locals - normally unionist/oo people (his words paraphrased).
It is strange though that the Chinese were really the only people who came to NI during the dark years. Also strange that so many of them lived/had businesses in Loyalists areas - and still do. You would think that if they had been getting abuse, particularly from one side, that they would have moved over into neutral or nationalist/republican areas, if they were better.
there ya go !
you (not you personally) just cant understand people and their reasoning !
think oakleaf has given a good response regarding the housing reason - or at least one reason
but as I got this straight from a chinese guy, I have no reason to question him (he also does not know I am from the north either so it was an honest view from him!)
I don't understand. I'm not denying anything you said.
As for the housing issue - did most of the Chinese who came over not open up their own businesses? They weren't allocated social housing, were they?
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 03:26:23 AM
As for the housing issue - did most of the Chinese who came over not open up their own businesses? They weren't allocated social housing, were they?
Indeed. Chinese immigrant communities throughout Europe and America etc (i.e. not just NI) are well-known for being self-contained and financially self-sufficient in that they do not rely on public services for jobs and housing etc, preferring instead to support themselves.
And as it happens, in NI the stock of low-cost private housing into which Chinese immigrants typically move on first arriving, is much more heavily concentrated in Protestant/Unionist areas than their Catholic/Nationalist equivalents eg The Village.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 03:26:23 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 04, 2009, 03:18:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 04, 2009, 01:44:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 04, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
as for racism in belfast, I had a very frank and eye opening discussion with a chinese guy living in dublin this past 9 years.
He says that the cinese community in Dublin and most of Ireland are left alone and welcomed, but their friends in the belfast region of Ireland are given dogs abuse by locals - normally unionist/oo people (his words paraphrased).
It is strange though that the Chinese were really the only people who came to NI during the dark years. Also strange that so many of them lived/had businesses in Loyalists areas - and still do. You would think that if they had been getting abuse, particularly from one side, that they would have moved over into neutral or nationalist/republican areas, if they were better.
there ya go !
you (not you personally) just cant understand people and their reasoning !
think oakleaf has given a good response regarding the housing reason - or at least one reason
but as I got this straight from a chinese guy, I have no reason to question him (he also does not know I am from the north either so it was an honest view from him!)
I don't understand. I'm not denying anything you said.
As for the housing issue - did most of the Chinese who came over not open up their own businesses? They weren't allocated social housing, were they?
Tends to be in belfast anyway there is no spare housing in nationalist areas (catholic areas tend to be over subscribed).
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on July 05, 2009, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 03:26:23 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 04, 2009, 03:18:04 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 04, 2009, 01:44:33 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on July 04, 2009, 01:31:12 PM
as for racism in belfast, I had a very frank and eye opening discussion with a chinese guy living in dublin this past 9 years.
He says that the cinese community in Dublin and most of Ireland are left alone and welcomed, but their friends in the belfast region of Ireland are given dogs abuse by locals - normally unionist/oo people (his words paraphrased).
It is strange though that the Chinese were really the only people who came to NI during the dark years. Also strange that so many of them lived/had businesses in Loyalists areas - and still do. You would think that if they had been getting abuse, particularly from one side, that they would have moved over into neutral or nationalist/republican areas, if they were better.
there ya go !
you (not you personally) just cant understand people and their reasoning !
think oakleaf has given a good response regarding the housing reason - or at least one reason
but as I got this straight from a chinese guy, I have no reason to question him (he also does not know I am from the north either so it was an honest view from him!)
I don't understand. I'm not denying anything you said.
As for the housing issue - did most of the Chinese who came over not open up their own businesses? They weren't allocated social housing, were they?
Tends to be in belfast anyway there is no spare housing in nationalist areas (catholic areas tend to be over subscribed).
From what I gather, there's no excess of spare housing in Unionist areas, either. The key difference (at least as regards immigrant communities) is that in working class Unionist areas, a greater proportion of the housing stock is privately-owned, which makes it more accessible to immigrant communities starting out in NI.
Needless to say Queen's gave them a firm ticking off ::)
And if their Dad had been unemployed and they went to the local Tech ? Lets be honest most people seen this coming.
...and no doubt the Colton one will come out of QUB and straight into the Institute and a job, like everyone else with a da in the legal profession in the North. The lenient punishment has eveyrthing to do with their social class, which is a disgrace.
They've been suspended from Queen's by the way.
A joke decision by all concerned. Should have been prosecuted and expelled from Queen's.