Good Priests, what have they done for you.

[fearbrags]

He  was  a priest  once  you  know

[An Gaeilgoir]

Our local priest is one of the most spiritual and humble men one would ever meet, he is very progressive and all for reform and often gives two fingers to the establishment through his sermons, i.e. women preists etc.  If he is doing a wedding, all choices are left up to the couple and as he says himself "its the sacrament thats important and not his view on how services should be conducted" He has been in our parish for nearly 20 years now and our community have been greatly enhanced by his presence. This is how the church shold be run, good spriitual men guiding their people and just been there for them when times are tough. I often wonder are good men like this embarrased by the churches actions and does it impact on thier faith?

[lynchbhoy]

Good shout GDA
while many here are looking for the Catholic church to become 'accountable to THEM' and put up silly non arguments where the bold truth is that Priests (with a number of exceptions) have helped drag this county and its people out of the bogs and gutters and helped educate them and turn us into a huge success story.
I'd also like to nominate the much maligned Christian brothers order too - not priests , but have also been guilty of some of their people abusing kids, but all in all, these guys have contributed as much towards the success of the country and the few slaps and beatings we got as kids (while not condoned) didnt do us too much harm. In those days the brutish Irish males prob needed that ! (still required in northern counties I think) 

[longrunsthefox]

Good shout GDA
while many here are looking for the Catholic church to become 'accountable to THEM' and put up silly non arguments where the bold truth is that Priests (with a number of exceptions) have helped drag this county and its people out of the bogs and gutters and helped educate them and turn us into a huge success story.
I'd also like to nominate the much maligned Christian brothers order too - not priests , but have also been guilty of some of their people abusing kids, but all in all, these guys have contributed as much towards the success of the country and the few slaps and beatings we got as kids (while not condoned) didnt do us too much harm. In those days the brutish Irish males prob needed that ! (still required in northern counties I think) 

Definently- get the straps back into the schools and flail the children... well said lynchboy. It is so repressive I cant give my children regular beatings. This country's gone to the dogs     

[magpie seanie]

Our local priest is one of the most spiritual and humble men one would ever meet, he is very progressive and all for reform and often gives two fingers to the establishment through his sermons, i.e. women preists etc.  If he is doing a wedding, all choices are left up to the couple and as he says himself "its the sacrament thats important and not his view on how services should be conducted" He has been in our parish for nearly 20 years now and our community have been greatly enhanced by his presence. This is how the church shold be run, good spriitual men guiding their people and just been there for them when times are tough. I often wonder are good men like this embarrased by the churches actions and does it impact on thier faith?

Those types of priests would have serious issues with the way the church is run and are frowned upon by the upper echelons whose main concern is who is the foremost theological academic than what is happening in real peoples lives. Their guiding light is the truth which keeps their faith strong. I know a few priests who are like the man you describe and 10 minutes in their company does more for my faith than anything else I've ever experienced.

[lynchbhoy]

the few slaps and beatings we got as kids (while not condoned) didnt do us too much harm. In those days the brutish Irish males prob needed that ! (still required in northern counties I think) 

Definently- get the straps back into the schools and flail the children... well said lynchboy. It is so repressive I cant give my children regular beatings. This country's gone to the dogs 
[/quote]
you're right - Modern society has gone so bad that the cane culture is sorely (no pun intended) missed by the crass mannerless anti-social people all around us.

I'd go so far as to introduce beatings for their parents too !

[Dougal]

so is the lynch in your username,your surname,or do you agree with lynching people?i wouldnt be surprised if ti was the latter.

[Main Street]

Not a big church man, but reckon the RC church needs some big PR guru, to ride in (excuse the pun) on a big black stallion (excuse the pun), and highlight the good they've done. We're losing / going to lose a load of good priests because of the medias excessive addiction with a few; not saying it shouln't be highlighted, just that it should be broadcast in as an unbiased way as possible

If you had your head out of yer arse,  ie trolling in the Celtic thread , you might have noticed that blame the media for a witch-hunt has been a constant theme, right up to Cardinal Brady's homily demanding that the drip drip effect be stopped.

Indeed the Pope himself (when Cardinal) was a great proponent of the media witch-hunt theory, probably as he was the head of the Inquisition at the time.
(intellect warning - the statistics he used are wrong and do not reflect actual figures of abuse done by clergy in the US, estimated at least 5%)

http://www.zenit.org/article-5979?l=english
Cardinal Ratzinger: "In the United States, there is constant news on this topic, but less than 1% of priests are guilty of acts of this type. The constant presence of these news items does not correspond to the objectivity of the information nor to the statistical objectivity of the facts. Therefore, one comes to the conclusion that it is intentional, manipulated, that there is a desire to discredit the Church. It is a logical and well-founded conclusion."

MS estimated by who?

By the Church itself in the USA
http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/PriestAbuseScandal.htm

The Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) reports a total of 94,607 priests for the period 1960-2002. When we look at the time period covered by the CARA database, the number of priests with allegations of sexual abuse is 4,127. Thus, the percentage of priests accused for this time period is 4.3% if we rely on the CARA figures assessing the total number of priests.

If we examine the differences between diocesan and religious priests, then our numbers result in a total of 4.3% of diocesan priests with allegations of abuse and 2.5% of religious priests with allegations of abuse. The CARA numbers yield a total of 5% of diocesan priests from 1960-1996 with allegations of abuse and 2.7% of religious priests from 1960-1996 with allegations of abuse.

As I've said before can we please keep this thread on topic.]As I've said before can we please keep this thread on topic.

Then don't ask silly questions

[Main Street]

the few slaps and beatings we got as kids (while not condoned) didnt do us too much harm. In those days the brutish Irish males prob needed that ! (still required in northern counties I think) 

Definently- get the straps back into the schools and flail the children... well said lynchboy. It is so repressive I cant give my children regular beatings. This country's gone to the dogs 

you're right - Modern society has gone so bad that the cane culture is sorely (no pun intended) missed by the crass mannerless anti-social people all around us.

I'd go so far as to introduce beatings for their parents too ![/quote]



Why not go even further like the Pope and blame the drop in levels of faith in society as the context for the sex abuse.
'if only we had more faith in the Church this would not have hapenned'.

Lynchbhoy, there was/is no context for the level of Church institutional/ hierarchial criminal complicity in allowing sex offenders the chance to avoid prosecution and the opportunity to continue with their repeated abuse crimes.
Once that is accepted 100% without reservation/excuse/prevarication then I could accept that there is a level of honesty and openness entering into the debate.
Blaming the abusers, the bad apples, is just an exercise in scapegoatism.

[longrunsthefox]

the few slaps and beatings we got as kids (while not condoned) didnt do us too much harm. In those days the brutish Irish males prob needed that ! (still required in northern counties I think) 

Definently- get the straps back into the schools and flail the children... well said lynchboy. It is so repressive I cant give my children regular beatings. This country's gone to the dogs 

you're right - Modern society has gone so bad that the cane culture is sorely (no pun intended) missed by the crass mannerless anti-social people all around us.

I'd go so far as to introduce beatings for their parents too !

[/quote]

Another thing has ruined society is this habit of women to think for themselves and I trace it back to the abolition of an old law by fuddy-duddys like those trying to give our bishops  a bad name.
There was an old law, gave the expression 'Rule of Thumb,' that "a man may beat a woman with a stick or rod as thick as his thumb and as long as his forearm."
Children and women have ruined this country by complaining about our beloved church and looking for equal rights.

[lynchbhoy]

Why not go even further like the Pope and blame the drop in levels of faith in society as the context for the sex abuse.
'if only we had more faith in the Church this would not have hapenned'.

Lynchbhoy, there was/is no context for the level of Church institutional/ hierarchial criminal complicity in allowing sex offenders the chance to avoid prosecution and the opportunity to continue with their repeated abuse crimes.
Once that is accepted 100% without reservation/excuse/prevarication then I could accept that there is a level of honesty and openness entering into the debate.
Blaming the abusers, the bad apples, is just an exercise in scapegoatism.

so you want to blame the innocents instead then ?
what do you and other people actually want ?
Lets have a bit of reality here.
there were offenders and the church fecked up. Yes. The Irish church mostly. What more can the vatican do.
When other institutions have fecked up and has affected human lives, the authorities first reaction is to deny and only EVENTUALLY justice is served. The michael neary fiasco, the hep C fiasco and other health board hushovers. The Bloody sunday enquiry - and all other such injustices and subsequent fights for justice etc etc.
The Catholic church in Ireland are 100% wrong for not dealing with this properly. But thats a common fault in human society in dealing with these things.

A bit of faith might go a it towards a better society, but I'd think that a bit of harsher discipline brought in at school would do a hell of a lot more. When the strap was outlawed, there was a period where lesser physical punishment existed. That was enough to do the job. The strap etc was too excessive. These days there is nothing and you see how society has ended up.

Meanwhile in the real world, good people (priests) are still loking out for the people of their parish , helping out with community groups and projects and maintaining a fairly sacrificial life that I would not have had the commitment to lead. They are to be commended with some of the projecs and improvements they bring to communities - including my own where they have campaigned for a new hospice - and delivered, campaigned for new primary and secondary schools - and delivered, and run various programmes for OAP's, poor, itinerants families and loads more stuff.
Good on them. You wont get that from capitalistic fat cats or governmental /council sources !

[lynchbhoy]

the few slaps and beatings we got as kids (while not condoned) didnt do us too much harm. In those days the brutish Irish males prob needed that ! (still required in northern counties I think) 

Definently- get the straps back into the schools and flail the children... well said lynchboy. It is so repressive I cant give my children regular beatings. This country's gone to the dogs 

you're right - Modern society has gone so bad that the cane culture is sorely (no pun intended) missed by the crass mannerless anti-social people all around us.

I'd go so far as to introduce beatings for their parents too !

Another thing has ruined society is this habit of women to think for themselves and I trace it back to the abolition of an old law by fuddy-duddys like those trying to give our bishops  a bad name.
There was an old law, gave the expression 'Rule of Thumb,' that "a man may beat a woman with a stick or rod as thick as his thumb and as long as his forearm."
Children and women have ruined this country by complaining about our beloved church and looking for equal rights.
[/quote]
ach , now yer being silly !

[longrunsthefox]

the few slaps and beatings we got as kids (while not condoned) didnt do us too much harm. In those days the brutish Irish males prob needed that ! (still required in northern counties I think) 

Definently- get the straps back into the schools and flail the children... well said lynchboy. It is so repressive I cant give my children regular beatings. This country's gone to the dogs 

you're right - Modern society has gone so bad that the cane culture is sorely (no pun intended) missed by the crass mannerless anti-social people all around us.

I'd go so far as to introduce beatings for their parents too !

Another thing has ruined society is this habit of women to think for themselves and I trace it back to the abolition of an old law by fuddy-duddys like those trying to give our bishops  a bad name.
There was an old law, gave the expression 'Rule of Thumb,' that "a man may beat a woman with a stick or rod as thick as his thumb and as long as his forearm."
Children and women have ruined this country by complaining about our beloved church and looking for equal rights.

ach , now yer being silly !
[/quote]

Oh! I thought you were joking when  you posted this.  (I was skiting along with you!)...

Lynchboy.... "while many here are looking for the Catholic church to become 'accountable to THEM' and put up silly non arguments where the bold truth is that Priests (with a number of exceptions) have helped drag this county and its people out of the bogs and gutters and helped educate them and turn us into a huge success story.
I'd also like to nominate the much maligned Christian brothers order too - not priests , but have also been guilty of some of their people abusing kids, but all in all, these guys have contributed as much towards the success of the country and the few slaps and beatings we got as kids (while not condoned) didnt do us too much harm. In those days the brutish Irish males prob needed that !

[Main Street]

so you want to blame the innocents instead then ?
what do you and other people actually want ?

I don't know what others want. I know what I expect as a standard,
honesty and openness.

there were offenders and the church fecked up. Yes. The Irish church mostly. What more can the vatican do.

The Vatican was not only aware of the abuse but dictated the cover up which allowed priests to continue with their sex abuse and frankly should there be a denial  of that is just plain silly at this stage.
I expect them to acknowledge that the cover up allowing priests to continue abuse was a crime, at least equal to the crime of the abusers.

When other institutions have fecked up and has affected human lives, the authorities first reaction is to deny and only EVENTUALLY justice is served. The michael neary fiasco, the hep C fiasco and other health board hushovers. The Bloody sunday enquiry - and all other such injustices and subsequent fights for justice etc etc.
The Catholic church in Ireland are 100% wrong for not dealing with this properly. But thats a common fault in human society in dealing with these things.

Not just 100% wrong , they were 100% part of the crime, the crime of omission. And even your opinion as stated is not supported by the Vatican or Cardinal Brady.
The Catholic Church in Ireland and the Vatican in Rome do not acknowledge that their part in the cover up was equal if not greater than the actual abuser. In fact the Pope has regarded  it as a 'misplaced good intention'. A far distance from an acknowledgement.

A bit of faith might go a it towards a better society, but I'd think that a bit of harsher discipline brought in at school would do a hell of a lot more. When the strap was outlawed, there was a period where lesser physical punishment existed. That was enough to do the job. The strap etc was too excessive. These days there is nothing and you see how society has ended up.

That has nothing to do with the sexual abuse. Sexual abuse thrived under the atmosphere of fear. The use of the strap in educational institutions as a means of a discipline method was in no way a deterrent to the sexual abuse, most probably the opposite.

Meanwhile in the real world, good people (priests) are still loking out for the people of their parish , helping out with community groups and projects and maintaining a fairly sacrificial life that I would not have had the commitment to lead. They are to be commended with some of the projecs and improvements they bring to communities - including my own where they have campaigned for a new hospice - and delivered, campaigned for new primary and secondary schools - and delivered, and run various programmes for OAP's, poor, itinerants families and loads more stuff.

And they should be supported by the hierarchy  instead of being dragged into the mire of canon law complicity in sex abuse crimes. And you may have noted as I have,  that there are many priests and bishops who have come out against the dictates of the Hierarchy and adopted the principle that the complicity was a crime and that the omission was a crime.

[johnneycool]

You get the feeling from reading the papal letter that Ratzinger is distancing Rome and the papacy from the cover up of child abuse in Ireland and it is the individual Bishops being hung out to dry for their 'misguided' actions.

It's a bit strange that the Bishops in America, Austria and even Germany all reacted to child abuse accusations in the same manner!!