Good Priests, what have they done for you.

[muppet]

I went to a secondary school run by priests. About 15% of the students were boarders.

IMHO the worst of the priests dished out the odd excessive beating while the best of them would leave a lasting and positive impression on most who passed through. Overall they made a massive contribution to those who attended. I believe AFAIK none of them have ever been implicated in any abuse and I would be astonished if they were.

Fine men and a fine contribution and I'd shake hands with any of them now.

However that does not mean that the small percentage of the church that have abused children should be forgiven because of the good deeds of the rest.

The scope of the Murphy report should be extended to include the whole country immediately otherwise there will never be closure. Without the facts properly compiled we have threads like this.

We don't want trial by Joe Duffy, we need a properly conducted investigation. Then we might have closure.

[fearbrags]

http://www.alliancesupport.org/news/archives/000843.html

[leenie]

At the end of the day the Church has apologised, all so called confidential deals should be made public, but the time has come to move on.

firstly I.M.O
They apologised because they caught out, with that i mean the cover ups we know of and the endless ones we don't...
Secondly
An apology is just words, that will never give those who were victims their lives back or erase their traumatised childhoods.
thirdly...
who is it the needs to "move on" is it those who form opinions or those who actually experience abuse (something that i believe no one, unless a Victim can truly understand).

[Puckoon]

The systemic abuse of children from paedophiles and brutalists who hid under the guise of men and women of the cloth is probably more awful and disgusting a tragedy than bloody sunday (not that bloody sunday is in anyway trivialised by anything). But we've boys on here who are still calling for all the enquiries and apologies and convictions from that awful day in Derry, who would in the same breath tell us that the church has done its best to make up for what went on.

Well you all rightly wont let the british off so lightly - collusion, cover up, shoot to kill and so on and so forth.

Whats different about the church?

[Pangurban]

The difference is that we are the Church, and i have not heard anyone argue that transgressors should be excused, the discussion has centred on degrees of guilt and punishment

[Maguire01]

The difference is that we are the Church, and i have not heard anyone argue that transgressors should be excused, the discussion has centred on degrees of guilt and punishment

So it's as simple as double standards then.

[lynchbhoy]

The systemic abuse of children from paedophiles and brutalists who hid under the guise of men and women of the cloth is probably more awful and disgusting a tragedy than bloody sunday (not that bloody sunday is in anyway trivialised by anything). But we've boys on here who are still calling for all the enquiries and apologies and convictions from that awful day in Derry, who would in the same breath tell us that the church has done its best to make up for what went on.

Well you all rightly wont let the british off so lightly - collusion, cover up, shoot to kill and so on and so forth.

Whats different about the church?

my sentiments cover all that
shoot/jail the offenders, and sack those who did nothing. Thats just to clear out the church and prune it back so what remains is crystal clean and free from blame.

same goes for the colluding folk in the north of Ireland.Though actually I dont think the colluding shoule be taken to task - just those guilty of killing (both sides before you ask - as long as the judicial process is correct and above board).
So maybe that is double standards , being harder on the priests and catholic church.

What will happen punishmentwise, will be conducted by the catholic church behind closed doors - as all large organisations will do  - financial (goldman sachs) , sporting (Gaa, soccer bodies, rugby bodies etc), political (internal gov inquiries etc)

[Maguire01]

What will happen punishmentwise, will be conducted by the catholic church behind closed doors - as all large organisations will do  - financial (goldman sachs) , sporting (Gaa, soccer bodies, rugby bodies etc), political (internal gov inquiries etc)

That just isn't going to suffice at this stage. If the Church wants to survive this and continue with any credibility, justice not only needs to be done, but needs to be seen to be done. Far too much has been conducted behind closed doors already - that's a large part of why this is such a mess already.

Also, where there are legal/criminal implications, punishment will definitely not be conducted by the church behind closed doors.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Thread hijacked! Quel surprise.
Could this discussion not be carried out on the other Clerical abuse threads? 

[ardal]

Not a big church man, but reckon the RC church needs some big PR guru, to ride in (excuse the pun) on a big black stallion (excuse the pun), and highlight the good they've done. We're losing / going to lose a load of good priests because of the medias excessive addiction with a few; not saying it shouln't be highlighted, just that it should be broadcast in as an unbiased way as possible

[Main Street]

Not a big church man, but reckon the RC church needs some big PR guru, to ride in (excuse the pun) on a big black stallion (excuse the pun), and highlight the good they've done. We're losing / going to lose a load of good priests because of the medias excessive addiction with a few; not saying it shouln't be highlighted, just that it should be broadcast in as an unbiased way as possible

If you had your head out of yer arse,  ie trolling in the Celtic thread , you might have noticed that blame the media for a witch-hunt has been a constant theme, right up to Cardinal Brady's homily demanding that the drip drip effect be stopped.

Indeed the Pope himself (when Cardinal) was a great proponent of the media witch-hunt theory, probably as he was the head of the Inquisition at the time.
(intellect warning - the statistics he used are wrong and do not reflect actual figures of abuse done by clergy in the US, estimated at least 5%)

http://www.zenit.org/article-5979?l=english
Cardinal Ratzinger: "In the United States, there is constant news on this topic, but less than 1% of priests are guilty of acts of this type. The constant presence of these news items does not correspond to the objectivity of the information nor to the statistical objectivity of the facts. Therefore, one comes to the conclusion that it is intentional, manipulated, that there is a desire to discredit the Church. It is a logical and well-founded conclusion."

[saffron sam2]

Father Murphy from old Kilcormack.

Maximilian Kolbe.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Not a big church man, but reckon the RC church needs some big PR guru, to ride in (excuse the pun) on a big black stallion (excuse the pun), and highlight the good they've done. We're losing / going to lose a load of good priests because of the medias excessive addiction with a few; not saying it shouln't be highlighted, just that it should be broadcast in as an unbiased way as possible

If you had your head out of yer arse,  ie trolling in the Celtic thread , you might have noticed that blame the media for a witch-hunt has been a constant theme, right up to Cardinal Brady's homily demanding that the drip drip effect be stopped.

Indeed the Pope himself (when Cardinal) was a great proponent of the media witch-hunt theory, probably as he was the head of the Inquisition at the time.
(intellect warning - the statistics he used are wrong and do not reflect actual figures of abuse done by clergy in the US, estimated at least 5%)

http://www.zenit.org/article-5979?l=english
Cardinal Ratzinger: "In the United States, there is constant news on this topic, but less than 1% of priests are guilty of acts of this type. The constant presence of these news items does not correspond to the objectivity of the information nor to the statistical objectivity of the facts. Therefore, one comes to the conclusion that it is intentional, manipulated, that there is a desire to discredit the Church. It is a logical and well-founded conclusion."

MS estimated by who?
As I've said before can we please keep this thread on topic.

[fearbrags]

 on May 18, 2001 Ratzinger sent a letter to every bishop in the Catholic Church.[5] This letter reminded them of the strict penalties facing those who revealed confidential details concerning enquiries into allegations against priests of certain grave ecclesiastical crimes, including sexual abuse, which were reserved to the jurisdiction of the Congregation. The letter extended the prescription or statute of limitations for these crimes to ten years.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

on May 18, 2001 Ratzinger sent a letter to every bishop in the Catholic Church.[5] This letter reminded them of the strict penalties facing those who revealed confidential details concerning enquiries into allegations against priests of certain grave ecclesiastical crimes, including sexual abuse, which were reserved to the jurisdiction of the Congregation. The letter extended the prescription or statute of limitations for these crimes to ten years.

Stick it on thte right thread please.