Good Priests, what have they done for you.

[Never beat the deeler]

I have been following this thread from abroad, and as sickening as it is, I dont believe it to be the end of the Catholic Church.

However, as others have pointed out, the CC needs to be proactive in flushing out ALL wrongdoers and colluders.

Fr Kevin Hegarty makes some valid points along similar lines. I think the CC needs to show people everywhere how seriously this will be treated and not wait each time for stories to break before confronting them.

I think Cardinal Daly should resign/be forced to resign, and by doing so the Church can be seen to be 'heralding a new beginning' as Fr Hegarty puts it.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9253:time-to-seek-a-new-beginning&catid=28&Itemid=100004

[longshanks original]

He has consistently spoke out on child abuse and had the courage to go on the Late Late Show when the rest of them hid out. Watever his failings, he did that and is to be applauded.

If father brian darcy is to be moved up the ranks then the Catholic Church will plummit further in our country. What we don't need is priests who are out for a tv or journalist career. Our priests should lead us in prayer and give us spiritual guidance. They should not feature heavily in Sunday papers that are filled with lies. We need priests who will stand up and tell the truth of the past and cover NOTHING up, and are in the parishes to support their community through prayer, because to get out of this mess and to stop the church dying away we need to get rid of all priests or bishops who know or were involved in the abuse of children. The priests and the church in Ireland need to go back to the morals that they up held 40 years ago, but this time listen to the people of the community and not have priests put on a peti-stool whereby they can do no wrong. I'd advice anybody who cares about the church and who hasn't already done so to read the full letter from the pope. And anybody who says they won't go back to mass because of what went on, consider this.... The bishops and priests do not make up the church, it is us and it is up to us to continue to make the church stronger, by getting rid of the bad apples and continuing without them!

[orangeman]

He has consistently spoke out on child abuse and had the courage to go on the Late Late Show when the rest of them hid out. Watever his failings, he did that and is to be applauded.

If father brian darcy is to be moved up the ranks then the Catholic Church will plummit further in our country. What we don't need is priests who are out for a tv or journalist career. Our priests should lead us in prayer and give us spiritual guidance. They should not feature heavily in Sunday papers that are filled with lies. We need priests who will stand up and tell the truth of the past and cover NOTHING up, and are in the parishes to support their community through prayer, because to get out of this mess and to stop the church dying away we need to get rid of all priests or bishops who know or were involved in the abuse of children. The priests and the church in Ireland need to go back to the morals that they up held 40 years ago, but this time listen to the people of the community and not have priests put on a peti-stool whereby they can do no wrong. I'd advice anybody who cares about the church and who hasn't already done so to read the full letter from the pope. And anybody who says they won't go back to mass because of what went on, consider this.... The bishops and priests do not make up the church, it is us and it is up to us to continue to make the church stronger, by getting rid of the bad apples and continuing without them!

What have you got against Fr. Brian Darcy ?. Are you annoyed that he called for Cardinal Brady's resignation and that he had the moral courage to call it as he saw it unlike the rest ?.

[johnneycool]

Fr Brian Darcy may like his TV junkets, but so what. From what I've seen and heard from him recently and even the Auxilary Bishop of down and Connor Donal McKeown on Newsnight talked more sense that Ratzinger and Brady have through all of this.

would it not be better for the Catholic church to embrace the new mediums of TV and mainstream print media to reach out to their lapsed brethern?

[lynchbhoy]

You are missing the pertinent point by a country mile, Lynchbhoy.

A good organisation in a serious criminal conspiracy of this nature is not excused from those criminal actions by a sign of the times excuse  when it helped create, maintain and sustain that ethos of untouchability.
How can it be said in a way that you can understand?
I suggest you read my linked address of the US bishop in 2002 from a previous post and compare it to the feeble excuses the Pope is still offering today, even compare it to the initial response of the hapless Cardinal Brady of recent days.
Certainly the US bishops in 2002 had no bones about admitting that they partook in a criminal conspiracy. I read no weighing up of good actions versus immoral actions, no feeble excuses, no excuses full stop.

Search deeper for moral strength my son

Sorry MS, I obv just dont see what your point is
or are you saying that this was a criminal conspiricy ?
The 'conspiricy' (and criminal at that) is limited to a small number.
These people who actively hid and allowed paedos to continue deserve as big a sentence as the sex offenders
however, this is limited to a few in the Irish top hierarchy  (maybe all top brass?)

I am not saying that this is all down to modern society - thats just something I commented on that I agree with that came up during the other conversations.

the US bishop knew the problem was on his doorstep and the problems were local.
The pope and the vatican I would expect (and guess which is all most of us can do) given the way the Irish clergy hierarchy operated - that they said feck all to the vatican, to cover up from above for their own ineptitude and non handling of the issues  over the years.

[longshanks original]

He has consistently spoke out on child abuse and had the courage to go on the Late Late Show when the rest of them hid out. Watever his failings, he did that and is to be applauded.

If father brian darcy is to be moved up the ranks then the Catholic Church will plummit further in our country. What we don't need is priests who are out for a tv or journalist career. Our priests should lead us in prayer and give us spiritual guidance. They should not feature heavily in Sunday papers that are filled with lies. We need priests who will stand up and tell the truth of the past and cover NOTHING up, and are in the parishes to support their community through prayer, because to get out of this mess and to stop the church dying away we need to get rid of all priests or bishops who know or were involved in the abuse of children. The priests and the church in Ireland need to go back to the morals that they up held 40 years ago, but this time listen to the people of the community and not have priests put on a peti-stool whereby they can do no wrong. I'd advice anybody who cares about the church and who hasn't already done so to read the full letter from the pope. And anybody who says they won't go back to mass because of what went on, consider this.... The bishops and priests do not make up the church, it is us and it is up to us to continue to make the church stronger, by getting rid of the bad apples and continuing without them!

What have you got against Fr. Brian Darcy ?. Are you annoyed that he called for Cardinal Brady's resignation and that he had the moral courage to call it as he saw it unlike the rest ?.

No not at all, I do think that Cardinal Brady should resign, he can not lead the church in Ireland with this hanging over him, as I said anybody who had anything to do with the cover up must go. Though I do think that he is been made a bit of a scape goat. You have to remember that at that time everyone stayed hush about child abuse claims, priests, bishops, gardia and even the parishoners! That's why if the church is to reform in Ireland the parish priests must listen to the people in thier parishes and not dictate the decisions. Equally the priests need help at the minute, they are all been looked at as guilty by association. In regards to fr brian darcy I have no problems with him speeking out, but I just cannot accept a priest who writes for the Sunday world, the paper is based on lies!! The media has a serious problem with the catholic church, I know at the minute there are stories of child abuse and there right to report these, but think when's the last good news story printed or reported by the media on the church? I think Catholics in Ireland need to go back to their faith and understand the catholic teachings, at the same time embracing modern ways, but we don't need to take today's modern morals. (not taking the moral high ground, I include myself in this)

[theskull1]

Longshanks.....no body exists that will do or demand the changes that you want to see...so how do you think practicing catholics have any level of control over what way the RC church is run down the line? How do you think they will get their say?

And you speak about the media having a problem with the RC church. Could you tell me the stories that you think they should be reporting?

[johnneycool]

And you speak about the media having a problem with the RC church. Could you tell me the stories that you think they should be reporting?

There was this Fr Mulvey lad in Strabane who built the chapel, community centre and a community care centre all with his own money, if that doesn't warrant at least a 3 minute slot on UTV live then I don't know what will.

[Main Street]

Sorry MS, I obv just dont see what your point is
or are you saying that this was a criminal conspiricy ?
The 'conspiricy' (and criminal at that) is limited to a small number.
These people who actively hid and allowed paedos to continue deserve as big a sentence as the sex offenders
however, this is limited to a few in the Irish top hierarchy  (maybe all top brass?)

The abusers were a small  minority (though still hugely significant number)  but the Church as an institution covered it up.
That makes the Church as an institution, guilty of the crime of complicity and omission.
The vatican knew what was happening re sex abuse cases by priests, the vatican knew the method to deal with it was to move the priest on, the Vatican knew these priests re-offended.
That is a criminal conspiracy.

the US bishop knew the problem was on his doorstep and the problems were local.
The pope and the vatican I would expect (and guess which is all most of us can do) given the way the Irish clergy hierarchy operated - that they said feck all to the vatican, to cover up from above for their own ineptitude and non handling of the issues  over the years.

The failed method to handle the abuse cases was set in canon law. That method was part of Vatican doctrine and the approved method to use. In the US they decided to deal with it their own way some 10 years ago contrary to the Vatican investigation into the sex abuse  led by Cardinal Ratzinger.
From the bottom of the ladder, priests and some bishops,  seeing the disappearing congregation, hearing the anger of the remaining faithful and accepting the criminal responsibility of the church as an institution, acted with decisiveness. It was the priests who got rid of Cardinal Law and the Bishops who commisioned the reports.
From the US bishops opening address
'We are the ones, whether through ignorance or lack of vigilance, or – God forbid – with knowledge, who allowed priest abusers to remain in ministry and reassigned them to communities where they continued to abuse.
We are the ones who chose not to report the criminal actions of priests to the authorities, because the law did not require this.
We are the ones who worried more about the possibility of scandal than in bringing about the kind of openness that helps prevent abuse.
And we are the ones who, at times, responded to victims and their families as adversaries and not as suffering members of the Church.'

What response have you had from the Irish hierarchy as a unit?
They have all the appearance of a bedraggled leaderless bunch still shuffling concepts of canon law and 'misplaced good intentions' around.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

And you speak about the media having a problem with the RC church. Could you tell me the stories that you think they should be reporting?

There was this Fr Mulvey lad in Strabane who built the chapel, community centre and a community care centre all with his own money, if that doesn't warrant at least a 3 minute slot on UTV live then I don't know what will.

Please tell me where anyone besides yourself has said that Fr Mulvey built anything with his own money, he instigated and facilitated the building of said buildings, nothing more nothing less, he was also instrumental in the building of the boys secondary school.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Again, if people cannot keep this thread on topic then I'll just lock it.
There are threads on this board devoted to Clerical Abuse, please post on them.

[theskull1]

Have we actually defined what a Good Priest is? A very important question that needs to be reexamined.

If he performs his weekly chores with dedication and a smile to all who pass him yet in the back of his mind he knowingly stayed silent and left it to others ubove his station (who never did) to blow the whistle on clerical child abuse thereby exposing hundreds more who otherwise would have been saved from this depravity, would you still consider him a good pastural leader and hang on his teachings to the flock?

So alot of these boys may very well be grand fellas on many levels, but can they really be trusted with something as important as shaping the morals of those who look to the church for guidance on such matters?

A good priest should be dedicated at a local level and also provide a voice to the wider comminuty as he communicates up the way to his bosses. Too many are just cowling dogs who are more interested in kissing the bishops ring  than speaking out at wrong doing from within their ranks. Their subservience to the hierarchy has played a very big part in this cover up being maintained. It's quite amazing that none of them blew the whistle on all the goings on.

[mylestheslasher]

Have we actually defined what a Good Priest is? A very important question that needs to be reexamined.

If he performs his weekly chores with dedication and a smile to all who pass him yet in the back of his mind he knowingly stayed silent and left it to others ubove his station (who never did) to blow the whistle on clerical child abuse thereby exposing hundreds more who otherwise would have been saved from this depravity, would you still consider him a good pastural leader and hang on his teachings to the flock?

So alot of these boys may very well be grand fellas on many levels, but can they really be trusted with something as important as shaping the morals of those who look to the church for guidance on such matters?

A good priest should be dedicated at a local level and also provide a voice to the wider comminuty as he communicates up the way to his bosses. Too many are just cowling dogs who are more interested in kissing the bishops ring  than speaking out at wrong doing from within their ranks. Their subservience to the hierarchy has played a very big part in this cover up being maintained. It's quite amazing that none of them blew the whistle on all the goings on.

I am told that our local priest decided to hand out photocopies of the Popes letter at mass on Sunday and refused to speak about it in his sermon. Not sure if that makes him good or bad. Maybe he tought the popes letter was a load of dung and not worth reading or maybe he thinks this whole child abuse thing is below him. I intend to find out!

[longrunsthefox]

Again, if people cannot keep this thread on topic then I'll just lock it.
There are threads on this board devoted to Clerical Abuse, please post on them.

Lock it then... bullshit thread anyway...

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Again, if people cannot keep this thread on topic then I'll just lock it.
There are threads on this board devoted to Clerical Abuse, please post on them.

Lock it then... bullshit thread anyway...

For a bullshit thread, you posted enough on it.