I was reluctant to start an individual thread and thought it would get mopped up in the qualifier thread but, the Armagh/Kildare boys set the tone, so here goes..
Revenge, being a word. There's no doubt that this is exactly the game that Monaghan need to awaken them from their slumber.. That's no guarantee that we'll win but I'd be pretty certain that one thing every Monaghan person wants to see put right is the 'fight in the dog'.. Down bullied Monaghan in the first 15/20 mins and our boys never reacted, which is unusual for a Monaghan team.. That had a definite impact on the game, our lads went on to miss easy chances, handing Down the initiative and belief. They fully deserved their win but this is an opportunity for Monaghan to put it right. Die dog or sh*te the license! I'm sure some of the lads have had sleepless nights since!
The first two men I'd have on the team-sheet are Gavin Doogan and Dermot Malone. MOR rather naively left these lads out the first day, opting to play a defender and a mid-fielder in the HF line (K Duffy and D Hughes respectively). Complacency, perhaps.
Is there any point in Down turning up? Sure most of their support had left the last game in Clones with over ten minutes to go. This is surely a condemnation of their own team when so many supporters walk away so early in the game and is an insult to the players. The players dropped their heads one one man got a black card and largely admitted defeat as a certainty.
The winner gets the chance to be slaughtered by Dublin. What a prize. Down don't do qualifiers.
Owen Brannigan's suggestion that a majority of Down fans had left the ground with more than ten minutes to go, leading to players dropping their heads with one receiving a black card and the rest accepting defeat, bears no resemblance to what actually happened. McKernan's black card came after 41 minutes, Tyrone quickly went nine clear and the contest was effectively over. Some Down fans certainly drifted away but most stayed to the end. For what it is worth, Down, rather than throwing in the towel, outscored Tyrone by seven points to 1-2 in the last ten minutes. Congratulations to Tyrone, who were by far the better side on the day and won very comfortably, but Down supporters are still proud of everything achieved by our team so far this season in entirely unexpected circumstances.
Mourne Rovers is right and the Tyrone goal was a sickening suckered punch. Without it we probably could have closed the gap to 3 or 4 points, we still would have lost but it wouldn'the have looked so bad and commentators would be talking about our fightback.
Where we lost it was the middle of second half where Owen Brannigan is right, the lads heads dropped and we were punished. Lesser teams (and we are one) find it hard to keep going for 70 minutes with full energy and determination when things look bleak. We fell into that. Tyrone through their experience do not stop they are relentless and confident in shooting. That's where we need to get to. The bright hope is that at least we did try to fightback.
I see McKernan's 3rd black card has been rescinded and he's got the green light to play for Down. I wouldn't begrudge in the least that he has the chance to play in this profile games or Down to have their best player available but I was pretty sure he deliberately went out of his way to shunt into the back of Cavanagh. Possibly the review committee were not convinced that there was enough power in the shunt to knock over the hulk that is Big Sean, never mind leave him on the ground in a daze until that time the ref dished out the card.
The rule is about taking a player out of play. So maybe they judged that McKernan deliberately shunted him but that he wasn't likely to be involved in the next play anyhow. Just offering a possible explanation. Not saying it is what I think cos I missed it at the game and haven't seen a reply since.
Yeah he definitely deliberately went for Cavanagh and shunted him from behind into his back so Sean didn't even see him coming. It was pretty obvious Down were targetting Sean all game probably to get a reaction or put him off his game and in a way it worked I suppose as he didn't play that well.
However, I would say it should have been a yellow card as the ball was miles away and so he was not taking him out of play like a third man tackle sort of thing.
I think that's why McKernan looked so shocked when he saw it was a black card and not yellow.
I'd fear for Down in this game as I think Monaghan have a big game in them and they've not produced it so far. They will be annoyed how Down bulleyed them so easily the first day as normally it is Monaghan who dish it out more.
McCarron and McManus have been quiet this championship and so will see this as a big chance to put that right.
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 21, 2017, 12:01:23 PM
The rule is about taking a player out of play. So maybe they judged that McKernan deliberately shunted him but that he wasn't likely to be involved in the next play anyhow. Just offering a possible explanation. Not saying it is what I think cos I missed it at the game and haven't seen a reply since.
I'd guess they deemed the coming together as being accidental.
That deviating off your natural path to collide with your opponent was not enough evidence to deem it a deliberate collision.
Jack McCarron has been very poor in the championship, surely his place is under pressure? Would Conor McCarthy not be pushing hard for a start at this stage?
Jack hasn't been very visible, neither was McManus in the last game.
There are more than a few close calls as to who will start the game.
I'd say Doogan and Malone to retain their starting place and Conor McCarthy has made a strong enough case to start.
Quote from: Main Street on July 21, 2017, 10:07:29 PM
Jack hasn't been very visible, neither was McManus in the last game.
There are more than a few close calls as to who will start the game.
I'd say Doogan and Malone to retain their starting place and Conor McCarthy has made a strong enough case to start.
The problem with starting McCarthy is that he doesn't have 70 mins in him and he'll likely have to be replaced on 45/50 mins at a stage where you want your best attackers on the field. Monaghan seem to have a few forwards who operate better from the bench than they do when starting Owen Duffy being a prime example.
Monaghan are a good team with plenty of experience. I would imagine they would be likely to win this second chance match. If they get ahead I would worry that Down lads heads will drop like against Tyrone. Also the Ulster final loss will have hurt badly. Maybe it galvanises, or maybe it crushes.
However Down are a team learning to be confident. We will likely start forcefully as that has been our style this last few games. If we get a few points lead then the confidence could kick in and we could win it. I deeply believe that man for man the natural ability level is about equal. It's experience and confidence that we lack.
Monaghan were complacent the first day, both tactically and individually. I can't see them being like that again. McKernan, O'Hanlon, Maginn & Harrison got far too much time and space on the ball, this will be tightened up. Drew Wylie got little protection from the sweeper (normally Kieran Duffy), because the sweeper was lined out along with a midfielder in the half forward line, with the intention of having a greater scoring threat. Wylie will relish the opportunity to right the wrongs of the last day. Of course Down fully deserved their win, but I can't see Monaghan making the same mistakes twice. If they do, there'll a locka jerseys and car flags going cheap.. ;)
Quote from: Boycey on July 23, 2017, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 21, 2017, 10:07:29 PM
Jack hasn't been very visible, neither was McManus in the last game.
There are more than a few close calls as to who will start the game.
I'd say Doogan and Malone to retain their starting place and Conor McCarthy has made a strong enough case to start.
The problem with starting McCarthy is that he doesn't have 70 mins in him and he'll likely have to be replaced on 45/50 mins at a stage where you want your best attackers on the field. Monaghan seem to have a few forwards who operate better from the bench than they do when starting Owen Duffy being a prime example.
Why would McCarthy not have 70 minutes in him? Sure he's only a young buck.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 18, 2017, 10:52:24 PM
Owen Brannigan's suggestion that a majority of Down fans had left the ground with more than ten minutes to go, leading to players dropping their heads with one receiving a black card and the rest accepting defeat, bears no resemblance to what actually happened. McKernan's black card came after 41 minutes, Tyrone quickly went nine clear and the contest was effectively over. Some Down fans certainly drifted away but most stayed to the end. For what it is worth, Down, rather than throwing in the towel, outscored Tyrone by seven points to 1-2 in the last ten minutes. Congratulations to Tyrone, who were by far the better side on the day and won very comfortably, but Down supporters are still proud of everything achieved by our team so far this season in entirely unexpected circumstances.
The game was over and played like a training game for the last ten minutes. Down knocked over a number of scores and got some handy frees. When the game was played at full tilt they were unable to score much.
Quote from: omagh_gael on July 25, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
Quote from: Boycey on July 23, 2017, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 21, 2017, 10:07:29 PM
Jack hasn't been very visible, neither was McManus in the last game.
There are more than a few close calls as to who will start the game.
I'd say Doogan and Malone to retain their starting place and Conor McCarthy has made a strong enough case to start.
The problem with starting McCarthy is that he doesn't have 70 mins in him and he'll likely have to be replaced on 45/50 mins at a stage where you want your best attackers on the field. Monaghan seem to have a few forwards who operate better from the bench than they do when starting Owen Duffy being a prime example.
Why would McCarthy not have 70 minutes in him? Sure he's only a young buck.
Ah he's only 21, a slight enough fella and probably still developing physically. I just feel he drifts out of the game late on if he's a starter..
Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 18, 2017, 10:52:24 PM
Owen Brannigan's suggestion that a majority of Down fans had left the ground with more than ten minutes to go, leading to players dropping their heads with one receiving a black card and the rest accepting defeat, bears no resemblance to what actually happened. McKernan's black card came after 41 minutes, Tyrone quickly went nine clear and the contest was effectively over. Some Down fans certainly drifted away but most stayed to the end. For what it is worth, Down, rather than throwing in the towel, outscored Tyrone by seven points to 1-2 in the last ten minutes. Congratulations to Tyrone, who were by far the better side on the day and won very comfortably, but Down supporters are still proud of everything achieved by our team so far this season in entirely unexpected circumstances.
5 points in it when he got the black card. Game was already over then I reckon
I hope those Down fans don't lose heart in Croke Pk on saturday.
I fancy Monaghan to go all the way. The great farney men of 1956 will be finally emulated!
Quote from: Aristo 60 on July 25, 2017, 03:57:41 PM
I fancy Monaghan to go all the way. The great farney men of 1956 will be finally emulated!
Ah here, they're not the aristocrats of 1960.. ;)
Maybe the Down fans will stay on and cheer Armagh in the next game, that would be a touching gesture of sporting solidarity, despite their own tribulations.
Are you having a laugh!!
Quote from: Main Street on July 25, 2017, 08:17:30 PM
Maybe the Down fans will stay on and cheer Armagh in the next game, that would be a touching gesture of sporting solidarity, despite their own tribulations.
Maybe the Monaghan fans will, should we win, cheer on Kildare to get a crack at Tyrone? :o
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 26, 2017, 12:41:26 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 25, 2017, 08:17:30 PM
Maybe the Down fans will stay on and cheer Armagh in the next game, that would be a touching gesture of sporting solidarity, despite their own tribulations.
Maybe the Monaghan fans will, should we win, cheer on Kildare to get a crack at Tyrone? :o
Sure it makes no odds. If Down win then we are not allowed to play Tyrone so Tyrone will play the winners of Armagh and KIldare. But if Monaghan win then Tyrone could play any of the three teams so there would be a draw to see who takes on Dublin and who takes on Tyrone.
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 26, 2017, 01:44:02 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 26, 2017, 12:41:26 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 25, 2017, 08:17:30 PM
Maybe the Down fans will stay on and cheer Armagh in the next game, that would be a touching gesture of sporting solidarity, despite their own tribulations.
Maybe the Monaghan fans will, should we win, cheer on Kildare to get a crack at Tyrone? :o
Sure it makes no odds. If Down win then we are not allowed to play Tyrone so Tyrone will play the winners of Armagh and KIldare. But if Monaghan win then Tyrone could play any of the three teams so there would be a draw to see who takes on Dublin and who takes on Tyrone.
Would it not still be the case that Kildare would not be allowed play Dublin, so Tyrone would get Monaghan?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 26, 2017, 02:21:05 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 26, 2017, 01:44:02 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 26, 2017, 12:41:26 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 25, 2017, 08:17:30 PM
Maybe the Down fans will stay on and cheer Armagh in the next game, that would be a touching gesture of sporting solidarity, despite their own tribulations.
Maybe the Monaghan fans will, should we win, cheer on Kildare to get a crack at Tyrone? :o
Sure it makes no odds. If Down win then we are not allowed to play Tyrone so Tyrone will play the winners of Armagh and KIldare. But if Monaghan win then Tyrone could play any of the three teams so there would be a draw to see who takes on Dublin and who takes on Tyrone.
Would it not still be the case that Kildare would not be allowed play Dublin, so Tyrone would get Monaghan?
That's my understanding. Any, we're on opposite sides of the draw so the winner can only play Dublin or Tyrone, and not any of the three teams as stated above.
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 26, 2017, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 26, 2017, 02:21:05 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 26, 2017, 01:44:02 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 26, 2017, 12:41:26 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 25, 2017, 08:17:30 PM
Maybe the Down fans will stay on and cheer Armagh in the next game, that would be a touching gesture of sporting solidarity, despite their own tribulations.
Maybe the Monaghan fans will, should we win, cheer on Kildare to get a crack at Tyrone? :o
Sure it makes no odds. If Down win then we are not allowed to play Tyrone so Tyrone will play the winners of Armagh and KIldare. But if Monaghan win then Tyrone could play any of the three teams so there would be a draw to see who takes on Dublin and who takes on Tyrone.
Would it not still be the case that Kildare would not be allowed play Dublin, so Tyrone would get Monaghan?
That's my understanding. Any, we're on opposite sides of the draw so the winner can only play Dublin or Tyrone, and not any of the three teams as stated above.
I imagine a draw only arises if both Kildare and Down are eliminated.
Armagh and Monaghan can meet in the Semi Final, I suppose.
Who was the last team Monaghan beat in Croke park in the championship?
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 26, 2017, 05:26:49 PM
Who was the last team Monaghan beat in Croke park in the championship?
Kildare in 2014??
Quote from: armaghniac on July 26, 2017, 02:21:05 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on July 26, 2017, 01:44:02 PM
Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on July 26, 2017, 12:41:26 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 25, 2017, 08:17:30 PM
Maybe the Down fans will stay on and cheer Armagh in the next game, that would be a touching gesture of sporting solidarity, despite their own tribulations.
Maybe the Monaghan fans will, should we win, cheer on Kildare to get a crack at Tyrone? :o
Sure it makes no odds. If Down win then we are not allowed to play Tyrone so Tyrone will play the winners of Armagh and KIldare. But if Monaghan win then Tyrone could play any of the three teams so there would be a draw to see who takes on Dublin and who takes on Tyrone.
Would it not still be the case that Kildare would not be allowed play Dublin, so Tyrone would get Monaghan?
D'oh!! yes of course that is correct.
So no flags bigger than A4 size allowed into Croke Park on Saturday for the matches. The next thing we'll be banned from wearing any county colours to matches. Absolute Joke GAA living in the dark ages.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/they-have-us-packed-in-like-animals-dublin-fans-lash-out-at-the-gaa-over-flag-ban-and-threaten-boycott-35970540.html
Colm Keys says McManus is Monaghan's best ever forward
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/monaghan-and-rossies-continue-to-punch-above-their-weight-35975528.html$$
Is he better than Nudie ?
Jaysus lads you are all very quiet. Worried about the trimming you'll get from either Tyrone or Dublin in the QF?
Feckin right!!
Monaghan will no doubt be hoping for a Armagh win on Saturday so they have a chance of avoiding the Dubs. They have been very unlucky in their quarterfinal draws over the past few years. I'd say they would have fancied their chances against Roscommon.
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 28, 2017, 12:12:09 PM
Monaghan will no doubt be hoping for a Armagh win on Saturday so they have a chance of avoiding the Dubs. They have been very unlucky in their quarterfinal draws over the past few years. I'd say they would have fancied their chances against Roscommon.
They have been. Their last 4 1/4s have been Kerry, Tyrone, Dublin and Tyrone. Nothing easy there. They need to get on with it though and beat Down first and then worry about the next day.
Quote from: omagh_gael on July 28, 2017, 11:44:31 AM
Jaysus lads you are all very quiet. Worried about the trimming you'll get from either Tyrone or Dublin in the QF?
I'm delighted with the quietness, to be honest. There was a bit much hyperbole before their last meeting which I think our boys might have believed..
R Beggan;
F Kelly, D Wylie, R Wylie;
C Walshe, N McAdam, K O'Connell;
K Hughes, D Hughes;
G Doogan, D Malone, S Carey;
O Duffy, J McCarron, C McManus.
Subs: C Forde, K Duffy, J Mealiff, B Greenan, V Corey, D Mone, D Ward, R McAnespie, T Kerr, C McCarthy, D Freeman.
http://www.monaghangaa.ie/2017/07/monaghan-panel-v-29717/ (http://www.monaghangaa.ie/2017/07/monaghan-panel-v-29717/)
Strong team.
See yis in the semi with Mayo and Galway in the other semi.
I've only read one mention this week of the 'wide open spaces' of Croke Park and those 'wide open spaces' will supposedly favour Monaghan more than Down.
Quote from: Main Street on July 28, 2017, 02:28:24 PM
I've only read one mention this week of the 'wide open spaces' of Croke Park and those 'wide open spaces' will supposedly favour Monaghan more than Down.
Even though the playing area in Clones amongst other grounds is equal
The logic is up there with 'ah sure look, if it doesn't kill ya, it'll only make ya stronger'..
🎵 "take us back to the wide open spaces,
a place where we belong"
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 28, 2017, 12:12:09 PM
Monaghan will no doubt be hoping for a Armagh win on Saturday so they have a chance of avoiding the Dubs. They have been very unlucky in their quarterfinal draws over the past few years. I'd say they would have fancied their chances against Roscommon.
Different sections of the draw. We'd fancy our chances against all the B Qualifiers.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 28, 2017, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 28, 2017, 12:12:09 PM
Monaghan will no doubt be hoping for a Armagh win on Saturday so they have a chance of avoiding the Dubs. They have been very unlucky in their quarterfinal draws over the past few years. I'd say they would have fancied their chances against Roscommon.
Different sections of the draw. We'd fancy our chances against all the B Qualifiers.
(https://www.cardcow.com/images/set378/card00937_fr.jpg)
Quote from: omagh_gael on July 28, 2017, 11:44:31 AM
Jaysus lads you are all very quiet. Worried about the trimming you'll get from either Tyrone or Dublin in the QF?
I'd say as long as Dublin give Tyrone a trimming in the semi we will all be happy enough.
Quote from: snoopdog on July 29, 2017, 08:09:10 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on July 28, 2017, 11:44:31 AM
Jaysus lads you are all very quiet. Worried about the trimming you'll get from either Tyrone or Dublin in the QF?
I'd say as long as Dublin give Tyrone a trimming in the semi we will all be happy enough.
That's more like it!!
Any streams available for this?
The Mobdro app is deadly for sky sports but for some reason my app isnt sbowing sky sports arena. I deleted it and downloaded again but still not showing up!
McCarron dropped and Freeman in.
Maybe no harm for Jack as he hasn't got going at all this summer. Big chance for Freeman too, and very good attacking options off the bench with McCarron and McCarthy. Doogan and McAnespie starting will add alot more workrate which we badly lacked in the first half of the Ulster game.
Stream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z_wtqZqo3g&feature=youtu.be
7 scores in the first 9 minutes - fairly blistering start
What is the score
18 mins gone Down 0-7 Monaghan 0-4. Down look well fired up after their disappointing Ulster final performance
Harrison giving Wylie another roasting
23 mins gone. 3 Monaghan frees and the sides are level. Monaghan 0-7 Down 0-7
Down moving the ball with pace causing problems for Monaghan
Monaghan Goal! Monaghan 1-7 Down 0-9
Surprisingly open game - neither defence looking all that impressive.
Dick Clerk in is a terrible pundit. Acting like a monaghan cheerleader and offers nothing but bland comments
Quote from: dublin7 on July 29, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
Dick Clerk in is a terrible pundit. Acting like a monaghan cheerleader and offers nothing but bland comments
Yeah - an neutral would be far better.
Down goal! Down 1-9 Monaghan 1-8
foot block there
should be a yellow card
Zero pressure at all in the build-up to that goal before the ball was dropped in around the square -
Marking on both sides is poor.
Quote from: dublin7 on July 29, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
Dick Clerk in is a terrible pundit. Acting like a monaghan cheerleader and offers nothing but bland comments
+1
Clerkin is dire.
HT Down 1-9 Monaghan 1-9. High scoring game but neither side can be happy with their lack of defending in this game.
Monaghan have finally tightened up a bit but there marking at the start was shocking. Drew wylie would do alright on harrison if they would have a sweeper and stop the ball coming in so easily.
feck me never seen so many soft frees in my life that Deegan fella is a joke
Credit to Monaghan for going in level while adopting a no marking and wild shot policy. I thought they were better but only for some great free taking they'd be in trouble.
I'd agree with James Horan on Sky, Down have been the better team and should be ahead.
I enjoyed that half very much. Fair play to Down, looked the better team to me, but Monaghan frees keeping them in it. Exciting half to come, completely 50/50.
As an aside, if I was a Down supporter I'd be disappointed with the keeper (who's done well otherwise) for the goal. Easy save if the keeper hadn't dived out of the way. Ball hit straight at him
Any links to the game??
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2017, 05:45:44 PM
Any links to the game??
If you've an iPad DL the World TV Plus app and Sky is free on it. It's available for android too AFAIK
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2017, 05:45:44 PM
Any links to the game??
Live youtube link on preivous page. Itll come back on for 2nd half
Quote from: thebar on July 29, 2017, 05:42:37 PM
feck me never seen so many soft frees in my life that Deegan fella is a joke
Blame the Down defenders for being absolutely daft - there should have figured out way quicker he wasn't going to let anything go, but they still continued with the little jersey tugs - handed Monaghan at least 3 points by my reckoning.
I'd be worried if I was from Down about how tight it is as they're playing by far the better football. Some awful frees given away.
Quote from: gallsman on July 29, 2017, 05:55:34 PM
I'd be worried if I was from Down about how tight it is as they're playing by far the better football. Some awful frees given away.
Down had 8 scores converted from play out of 12 ; Monaghan had 4 out of 13.
Down had 2 scores from deadballs compared to Monaghan having 6.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2017, 05:45:44 PM
Any links to the game??
It's on mobdro "sky sports main event "
McManus is some man to win a free
45 mins gone. Monaghan 1-12 Down 1-11
What does Gavin Dougan do on this Monaghan team?
all he seems to do is run and handpass the ball
Monaghan's defence has definitely improved in the 2nd half - have had more turnovers in the first 10 minutes than they had in all the first half.
Attack looks a bit slicker too.
Too many passengers in the Down attack at the minute. Ryan Johnston has done nothing other than dance around the 45 and slow things down. Listening to the commentary you'd think Doran was having the same impact as Harrison.
Great score from McManus.
Monaghan have moved up the gears. 50 mins gone Monaghan 1-16 Down 1-11.
2 terrible misses by O'Hanlon from frees - can't be missing these.
Down beat Monaghan in late June mainly because they held them to 0-15, today 1-17 conceded and still over 15 mins to play..
60 mins gone Monaghan 1-19 Down 1-13
Down 0-4 Monaghan 0-10 in the 25 minutes of the 2nd half.
Is it Dick Clerkin or Datsun Donaghy on commentary?
FT Monaghan 1-24 Down 1-16. Dublin next up for Monaghan unless Armagh pull off a shock.
Yes.
Really. ::)
Much better second half from Monaghan.
Will that Men against Boys line be used again against Dublin??
Dow just aren't as good but they acquitted themselves very well. They needed mckernan and mooney more involved and just couldn't make that happen.
If monaghan mark like in the first twenty minutes then their quarter final will be a no contest. They have very good players but their slowness at closing things down - from management or players- must be a worry. If they play likethe latter stages they may challenge tyrone but i couldn't see dublin being too bothered by them.
Going in level at half time I wasn't too bothered about what would happen in the 2nd half, considering the subs available.
Nice to have Dick in the commentary team, always has the aura of neutrality.
(http://www.hoganstand.com/Common/NewGallery/inph0713323.jpg)
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 29, 2017, 06:44:44 PM
Dow just aren't as good but they acquitted themselves very well. They needed mckernan and mooney more involved and just couldn't make that happen.
If monaghan mark like in the first twenty minutes then their quarter final will be a no contest. They have very good players but their slowness at closing things down - from management or players- must be a worry. If they play likethe latter stages they may challenge tyrone but i couldn't see dublin being too bothered by them.
Also Monaghan's shooting from play in the first half was terrible with a conversion rate of 4 from 13 with a lot of this down to some very poor shot selection.
The frees from Down kept them in it - 6 points from deadballs in a half where you are struggling with your shooting from play is an absolute gift.
In the 2nd half they seemed more patient in their shooting.[The subs definitely improved things here]
Quote from: Main Street on July 29, 2017, 06:48:23 PM
Going in level at half time I wasn't too bothered about what would happen in the 2nd half, considering the subs available.
Nice to have Dick in the commentary team, always has the aura of neutrality.
(http://www.hoganstand.com/Common/NewGallery/inph0713323.jpg)
I'd say he was disappointed not to pick up his normal yellow card ;)
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 29, 2017, 06:50:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 29, 2017, 06:44:44 PM
Dow just aren't as good but they acquitted themselves very well. They needed mckernan and mooney more involved and just couldn't make that happen.
If monaghan mark like in the first twenty minutes then their quarter final will be a no contest. They have very good players but their slowness at closing things down - from management or players- must be a worry. If they play likethe latter stages they may challenge tyrone but i couldn't see dublin being too bothered by them.
Also Monaghan's shooting from play in the first half was terrible with a conversion rate of 4 from 13 with a lot of this down to some very poor shot selection.
The frees from Down kept them in it - 6 points from deadballs in a half where you are struggling with your shooting from play is an absolute gift.
In the 2nd half they seemed more patient in their shooting.[The subs definitely improved things here]
I think they tended to be in worse positions or under more pressure in the first half (monaghan that is) hence the wides. Down haven't the depth or the fitness when the going gets tough in the last 10-20 hence giving the more space so easier chances... Imo. At the end of the day i think monaghan probably scored more frees? Mccarthy was a massive difference for them. Doogan nit a big threat.
Quote from: Main Street on July 29, 2017, 06:48:23 PM
Going in level at half time I wasn't too bothered about what would happen in the 2nd half, considering the subs available.
Yeah had that feeling myself to be honest. Even as bad as we were in the first Down game, we were still a free away from drawing it level at the end before Down got the insurance score. We've finished most games this year pretty strongly due to the bench improving, and knowing we had McCarron and McCarthy to come on meant you were confident enough at the start of the second half. McCarthy was very impressive again, I'd imagine we'll need a similar impact from him next week.
Very good second half today but the first half wasn't nearly good enough, big improvements needed before next Saturday. The goal chances we coughed up would be a worry too, especially if we end up meeting Dublin.
Armagh giving Kidare all they want currently. Could be a Mon morning draw....
Down lacked depth from the bench only able to call on some old warriors who are not able to make an impact. Also lack the quality one to one with Monaghan.
Having said that Another poor Deegan performance kept Monaghan in the game in the first half with handy frees.
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on July 29, 2017, 09:09:02 PM
Down lacked depth from the bench only able to call on some old warriors who are not able to make an impact. Also lack the quality one to one with Monaghan.
Having said that Another poor Deegan performance kept Monaghan in the game in the first half with handy frees.
The refereeing in this game was woeful compared to the Armagh game.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 29, 2017, 06:07:56 PM
What does Gavin Dougan do on this Monaghan team?
all he seems to do is run and handpass the ball
Some engine but his basic skills are poor. He must of picked the ball of the grounds 2/3 times against Cavan earlier in season
Quote from: Zulu on July 29, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
Much better second half from Monaghan.
Did monaghan deliberatly line out to finish stronger or did it just work out that way. I know freeman might be lighting it up in Dublin club football but Jack is a better option (and so it proved). Also what does McCarthy have to do to get a start. He's a class act.
Quote from: straightred on July 29, 2017, 11:37:54 PM
Quote from: Zulu on July 29, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
Much better second half from Monaghan.
Did monaghan deliberatly line out to finish stronger or did it just work out that way. I know freeman might be lighting it up in Dublin club football but Jack is a better option (and so it proved). Also what does McCarthy have to do to get a start. He's a class act.
I do think it's a tactic to finish with a stronger attack. Start with the likes of Doogan, Malone and Carey who will run all day and work hard, and if you get 1-2 pts out of them then that's a bonus. Then in the second half when it opens up a bit, bring on more scorers - which at different times has been 2-3 of McCarthy, Duffy, Freeman and McCarron today. We've finished basically every game as the stronger team so it's been working up to now. Funny enough the one game we started with a very attacking forward line was the first Down game. When we didn't rack up an early score we were in trouble, as there wasn't the same quality to bring off the bench.
Quality wise McCarthy definitely warrants a start, he's been one of our brightest parts of this summer. But the one game he did start(Down in Ulster), he wasn't as effective. So I could see why he'd be held in reserve, he's made an impact every time he comes off the bench.
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 29, 2017, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: thebar on July 29, 2017, 05:42:37 PM
feck me never seen so many soft frees in my life that Deegan fella is a joke
Blame the Down defenders for being absolutely daft - there should have figured out way quicker he wasn't going to let anything go, but they still continued with the little jersey tugs - handed Monaghan at least 3 points by my reckoning.
Softest frees ever kept mon in the game 1st half.....most infuriatingly McManus brought 3 1st half frees over 10 yards in from the sideline (without the ref, linesman or umpires catching on) before scoring what would have and should have been much more difficult frees...i know this wont be talked about...but 3 scores is massive and the fact it wasnt picked up on (as the ref was speaking to the player who fouled) on 3 occasions is farcical.
Makes our game seem so amateur...the last one was brought fully 15 yards in from where it happend...call it cuteness from McManus but its rank amateurism from our officials...Peter Turley went to the linesman who waved his protests away.
Down should have been at least 3 up at the break
Quote from: Gold on July 30, 2017, 12:24:40 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 29, 2017, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: thebar on July 29, 2017, 05:42:37 PM
feck me never seen so many soft frees in my life that Deegan fella is a joke
Blame the Down defenders for being absolutely daft - there should have figured out way quicker he wasn't going to let anything go, but they still continued with the little jersey tugs - handed Monaghan at least 3 points by my reckoning.
Softest frees ever kept mon in the game 1st half.....most infuriatingly McManus brought 3 1st half frees over 10 yards in from the sideline (without the ref, linesman or umpires catching on) before scoring what would have and should have been much more difficult frees...i know this wont be talked about...but 3 scores is massive and the fact it wasnt picked up on (as the ref was speaking to the player who fouled) on 3 occasions is farcical.
Makes our game seem so amateur...the last one was brought fully 15 yards in from where it happend...call it cuteness from McManus but its rank amateurism from our officials...Peter Turley went to the linesman who waved his protests away.
Down should have been at least 3 up at the break
you can call them soft if you want but they were all fouls and that's all that matters. Point taken about stealing yards. They all do it though
Quote from: Schkite on July 30, 2017, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: straightred on July 29, 2017, 11:37:54 PM
Quote from: Zulu on July 29, 2017, 06:42:03 PM
Much better second half from Monaghan.
Did monaghan deliberatly line out to finish stronger or did it just work out that way. I know freeman might be lighting it up in Dublin club football but Jack is a better option (and so it proved). Also what does McCarthy have to do to get a start. He's a class act.
I do think it's a tactic to finish with a stronger attack. Start with the likes of Doogan, Malone and Carey who will run all day and work hard, and if you get 1-2 pts out of them then that's a bonus. Then in the second half when it opens up a bit, bring on more scorers - which at different times has been 2-3 of McCarthy, Duffy, Freeman and McCarron today. We've finished basically every game as the stronger team so it's been working up to now. Funny enough the one game we started with a very attacking forward line was the first Down game. When we didn't rack up an early score we were in trouble, as there wasn't the same quality to bring off the bench.
Quality wise McCarthy definitely warrants a start, he's been one of our brightest parts of this summer. But the one game he did start(Down in Ulster), he wasn't as effective. So I could see why he'd be held in reserve, he's made an impact every time he comes off the bench.
It's a conundrum alright, McCarthy has earned his starting place but his role in reserve so far best serves the team. Thought the scales were tipping Monaghan's way, I think the scores were level when he came on for Freeman after 45mins and he was instrumental in the purple patch as Monaghan raced away with the game.
Quote from: Gold on July 30, 2017, 12:24:40 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 29, 2017, 05:49:51 PM
Quote from: thebar on July 29, 2017, 05:42:37 PM
feck me never seen so many soft frees in my life that Deegan fella is a joke
Time to introduce the foam spray. That would sort that out. Happens all the time.
Blame the Down defenders for being absolutely daft - there should have figured out way quicker he wasn't going to let anything go, but they still continued with the little jersey tugs - handed Monaghan at least 3 points by my reckoning.
Softest frees ever kept mon in the game 1st half.....most infuriatingly McManus brought 3 1st half frees over 10 yards in from the sideline (without the ref, linesman or umpires catching on) before scoring what would have and should have been much more difficult frees...i know this wont be talked about...but 3 scores is massive and the fact it wasnt picked up on (as the ref was speaking to the player who fouled) on 3 occasions is farcical.
Makes our game seem so amateur...the last one was brought fully 15 yards in from where it happend...call it cuteness from McManus but its rank amateurism from our officials...Peter Turley went to the linesman who waved his protests away.
Down should have been at least 3 up at the break
The last one was eye-wateringly outrageous :D. McManus brought the ball in 3 grass cut lines of the pitch (if that makes sense)..
This is coming from a neutral Antrim man who just wanted to see a good game. Was frustrating that Down gave the opportunity for Mon to get frees....many were half fouls but with a fuss ref you cant leave a hand in at all
Whilst Harrison etc was kicking wonder scores up in the hill end it was poor to see that Moanghans half foul frees were worth as much as a wonder score at the other end.
Mon forwards were so impotant that all down had to do was stand them up without fouling...down leading by the deserved 3 or 4 may have changed 2nd half dynamic
Speaking of frees...Downs lack of a natural free taker was a big difference between the teams
Mon were far more potent with McCarthy and McCarron on
Quote from: Gold on July 30, 2017, 09:19:07 AM
The last one was eye-wateringly outrageous :D. McManus brought the ball in 3 grass cut lines of the pitch (if that makes sense)..
This is coming from a neutral Antrim man who just wanted to see a good game. Was frustrating that Down gave the opportunity for Mon to get frees....many were half fouls but with a fuss ref you cant leave a hand in at all
Whilst Harrison etc was kicking wonder scores up in the hill end it was poor to see that Moanghans half foul frees were worth as much as a wonder score at the other end.
Mon forwards were so impotant that all down had to do was stand them up without fouling...down leading by the deserved 3 or 4 may have changed 2nd half dynamic
Speaking of frees...Downs lack of a natural free taker was a big difference between the teams
Mon were far more potent with McCarthy and McCarron on
That's truly an amazing piece of insight, keep it up son!
Quote from: Gold on July 30, 2017, 09:19:07 AM
Whilst Harrison etc was kicking wonder scores up in the hill end it was poor to see that Moanghans half foul frees were worth as much as a wonder score at the other end.
Bugbear for me this. A foul is a foul. If the Monaghan players were not being repeatedly fouled they might have had the chance to score wonder scores. But as their movement was being continually restricted, then they had to settle for frees.
Monaghan started v slow and looked like they were going to be bullied out of the game again. This is something new with this team in that they arent imposing themselves on teams like they used to.
Harrison was fantastic and is someone worth paying in to see. Its a pity he didnt have more help around him as the rest of the Down forwards are average at best.
OHanlon missed a free at a vital time which ultimately cost Down any change of a comeback.
Mc Carthy is excellent and Monaghan look a different proposition when he is on the field. In the first half when McManus went past the 40 there was zero movement from the Monagahn forward line and they had to recycle continually.
Monaghan will get blown away by Dublin mind you as they simply dont have the defence to cope with the Dubs running game