Martinoneillsandroykeanesrepublicofireland.

[longrunsthefox]

Stew name me the other world class players from Ireand that would get on 'your' best world 11 better than Keane?

Oh Ah Paul McGrath.

Liam Brady.

John Giles.

Thats about it, the man was an unreal footballer.

All great players, but he has more medals than the three put together and no that doesn't make him better on it's own (**waits for the John O'Shea argument**) but the fact that he was the captain and frequently dragged his team to many of those titles does. None of the others did that and I say that as a huge Liam Brady fan.

Medals have feck all to do with it, (well they do a wee bit)  but I simply put forth names I would put ahead of keanes on the teamsheet, I thought about Moran and decided he was about Keanes equal so not better, Whelen, although a great player and servant for ireland was not the player Roy was but he was close. In my opinion. Keane to me is one of the top 100 players ever to play the game, he was that influencial.

Of those mentioned only Whelan understood, and had the ability to control, the tempo of a game as well as Keane. But he was not quite the athlete Keane was which is why I would put Keane ahead of Ronnie.

Giles was a similar type of player in a different era which makes it hard for me to compare. When Giles deliberately took out a player due to a remark in an earlier game the tackle was celebrated (in Mark Lawrenson's book). When Keane did it there was outrage.

Brady was a one off,more talented than any of the rest and capable of winning a ame on his own. But he could be marked out of a game and frequently was unfortunately.

McGrath could have been the best of the lot but for his personal demons. It is (quite rightly) ignored that he missed many games for his club and country due to none footballing issues.

Lazy comment. Paul McGrath 83 caps... Roy Keane 67   McGrath was world class

Even lazier reply. Two magnificent careers summed up in 2 numbers?

McGrath was the best of the lot and with all the games you claim he missed still played more times for Ireland than Keane and contributed more. McGrath held that defence so well even made Babb and Phelan look good 

[muppet]

Stew name me the other world class players from Ireand that would get on 'your' best world 11 better than Keane?

Oh Ah Paul McGrath.

Liam Brady.

John Giles.

Thats about it, the man was an unreal footballer.

All great players, but he has more medals than the three put together and no that doesn't make him better on it's own (**waits for the John O'Shea argument**) but the fact that he was the captain and frequently dragged his team to many of those titles does. None of the others did that and I say that as a huge Liam Brady fan.

Medals have feck all to do with it, (well they do a wee bit)  but I simply put forth names I would put ahead of keanes on the teamsheet, I thought about Moran and decided he was about Keanes equal so not better, Whelen, although a great player and servant for ireland was not the player Roy was but he was close. In my opinion. Keane to me is one of the top 100 players ever to play the game, he was that influencial.

Of those mentioned only Whelan understood, and had the ability to control, the tempo of a game as well as Keane. But he was not quite the athlete Keane was which is why I would put Keane ahead of Ronnie.

Giles was a similar type of player in a different era which makes it hard for me to compare. When Giles deliberately took out a player due to a remark in an earlier game the tackle was celebrated (in Mark Lawrenson's book). When Keane did it there was outrage.

Brady was a one off,more talented than any of the rest and capable of winning a ame on his own. But he could be marked out of a game and frequently was unfortunately.

McGrath could have been the best of the lot but for his personal demons. It is (quite rightly) ignored that he missed many games for his club and country due to none footballing issues.

Lazy comment. Paul McGrath 83 caps... Roy Keane 67   McGrath was world class

Even lazier reply. Two magnificent careers summed up in 2 numbers?

McGrath was the best of the lot and with all the games you claim he missed still played more times for Ireland than Keane and contributed more. McGrath held that defence so well even made Babb and Phelan look good 

No question of McGrath's ability, especially given his problems and remember many of his caps were in midfield. But you can't measure a player purely on caps alone, otherwise Kevin Kilbane is our best ever player.

[longrunsthefox]

Stew name me the other world class players from Ireand that would get on 'your' best world 11 better than Keane?

Oh Ah Paul McGrath.

Liam Brady.

John Giles.

Thats about it, the man was an unreal footballer.

All great players, but he has more medals than the three put together and no that doesn't make him better on it's own (**waits for the John O'Shea argument**) but the fact that he was the captain and frequently dragged his team to many of those titles does. None of the others did that and I say that as a huge Liam Brady fan.

Medals have feck all to do with it, (well they do a wee bit)  but I simply put forth names I would put ahead of keanes on the teamsheet, I thought about Moran and decided he was about Keanes equal so not better, Whelen, although a great player and servant for ireland was not the player Roy was but he was close. In my opinion. Keane to me is one of the top 100 players ever to play the game, he was that influencial.

Of those mentioned only Whelan understood, and had the ability to control, the tempo of a game as well as Keane. But he was not quite the athlete Keane was which is why I would put Keane ahead of Ronnie.

Giles was a similar type of player in a different era which makes it hard for me to compare. When Giles deliberately took out a player due to a remark in an earlier game the tackle was celebrated (in Mark Lawrenson's book). When Keane did it there was outrage.

Brady was a one off,more talented than any of the rest and capable of winning a ame on his own. But he could be marked out of a game and frequently was unfortunately.

McGrath could have been the best of the lot but for his personal demons. It is (quite rightly) ignored that he missed many games for his club and country due to none footballing issues.

Lazy comment. Paul McGrath 83 caps... Roy Keane 67   McGrath was world class

Even lazier reply. Two magnificent careers summed up in 2 numbers?

McGrath was the best of the lot and with all the games you claim he missed still played more times for Ireland than Keane and contributed more. McGrath held that defence so well even made Babb and Phelan look good 

No question of McGrath's ability, especially given his problems and remember many of his caps were in midfield. But you can't measure a player purely on caps alone, otherwise Kevin Kilbane is our best ever player.

I aren't maesuring him on caps alone. It was you said..'he missed many games for his club and country.' That is misleading. How many did he miss? Fact is he played more than Keane who missed a few in 2002 

[muppet]

I aren't maesuring him on caps alone. It was you said..'he missed many games for his club and country.' That is misleading. How many did he miss? Fact is he played more than Keane who missed a few in 2002 

I mentioned it because Keane is villified for missing games, remember Cathal Dervan organising the booing of Keane versus Iceland (?). McGrath has his demons and was minded by the Charlton set up brilliantly (McCarthy blundered badly in this regard). We didn't know why McGrath missed games until he wrote his book and I have nothing but respect for him after reading it.

But we and the media didn't know the reasons yet it was still one rule for him and another for Keane. That was the point I was trying to make.

One of the stories involved him sneaking off for an pint in Dublin before an international and waking up in Israel!

[longrunsthefox]

Ipswich 0 Sheff Wed 0   the legend coach is four points from safety... he certainly won't be relegated as he will jump ship again... whose a 'sh*t manager' now?

[milltown row]

Ipswich 0 Sheff Wed 0   the legend coach is four points from safety... he certainly won't be relegated as he will jump ship again... whose a 'sh*t manager' now?

you have a serious hard on for Keane

very disturbing

[Main Street]

How is it farcical? The point of the Georgia penalty is that there was no national hysteria when we got a wrongly awarded penalty, which turned out to be vital in getting that second spot

You do not know the game very well do you?
If you cannot see the difference between a legit awarded soft penalty where no Irish player cheated and the Henry handling to get that goal then I doubt if anyone can explain it to you.  Most every knowledgeable football person can appreciate the difference.

As Keane says, there was no clamouring to get the game replayed. There were no government ministers getting themselves involved. Its hypocrisy, plain and simple. We're happy enough when these decisions go for us, as are supporters of all teams. The difference is that there is not normally an outbreak of nationwide hysteria when they go against other teams - they simply accept it as part of the game (as you say, it goes both ways over time) and move on with at least a little dignity (the English being an exception, of course).

What's the points of repeating stuff about the replaying of the game. I haven't argued that toss.

[5 Sams]

Shock ....horror...Roy Keane talks sense..he might be a shite manager(which is irrelevant in this debate)...but its hard to disagree with what he says...

[Minder]

There probably is merit in what he said about Saint Shay, it has been said before a weakness in Givens game is not commanding his area. I know he is beyond criticism but look at Lloris performance for France ( and I am not referring to his save from Duffs pathetic shot). Every cross came in he cleaned it out.

[muppet]

How is it farcical? The point of the Georgia penalty is that there was no national hysteria when we got a wrongly awarded penalty, which turned out to be vital in getting that second spot

You do not know the game very well do you?
If you cannot see the difference between a legit awarded soft penalty where no Irish player cheated and the Henry handling to get that goal then I doubt if anyone can explain it to you.  Most every knowledgeable football person can appreciate the difference.

As Keane says, there was no clamouring to get the game replayed. There were no government ministers getting themselves involved. Its hypocrisy, plain and simple. We're happy enough when these decisions go for us, as are supporters of all teams. The difference is that there is not normally an outbreak of nationwide hysteria when they go against other teams - they simply accept it as part of the game (as you say, it goes both ways over time) and move on with at least a little dignity (the English being an exception, of course).

What's the points of repeating stuff about the replaying of the game. I haven't argued that toss.

For a legit penalty any contact with the ball would have to be deliberate. It doesn't matter if the ball hits his hand, falls at his feet and he scores. It is no foul unless it is deliberate.

Henry's second contact was definately deliberate, the Georgian lads contact was no foul.

[Main Street]

Henry's second contact was definately (sic) deliberate, the Georgian lads contact was no foul.

Hand ball is defined as deliberate contact with the ball from the fingers to the top of the arm.
The top of the arm as you know meets the shoulder.
The Georgian was deemed to deliberately move his body to direct the ball away.
The Georgian did not use his chest nor did he move his body away away from contact with the ball. He deliberately used the top part of his arm where it connects with his shoulder.
The penalty was soft because the contact was minimal between the ball and the arm and was so unnecessary.


Robbie Keane got penalised for deliberate use of the same  shoulder /upper arm body part to control the ball against France on Wednesday.

[muppet]

Henry's second contact was definately (sic) deliberate, the Georgian lads contact was no foul.

Hand ball is defined as deliberate contact with the ball from the fingers to the top of the arm.
The top of the arm as you know meets the shoulder.
The Georgian was deemed to deliberately move his body to direct the ball away.
The Georgian did not use his chest nor did he move his body away away from contact with the ball. He deliberately used the top part of his arm where it connects with his shoulder.
The penalty was soft because the contact was minimal between the ball and the arm and was so unnecessary.


Robbie Keane got penalised for deliberate use of the same  shoulder /upper arm body part to control the ball against France on Wednesday.

You're having a laugh. So he deliberately didn't get out of the way of the ball, that is hardly an offense. Then he deliberately let the ball brush off the top of his shoulder which achieved nothing while making no obvious movement towards the ball. All of this while the flag was up for offside on Keane.

Peno me arse. 

[J70]

How is it farcical? The point of the Georgia penalty is that there was no national hysteria when we got a wrongly awarded penalty, which turned out to be vital in getting that second spot

You do not know the game very well do you?
If you cannot see the difference between a legit awarded soft penalty where no Irish player cheated and the Henry handling to get that goal then I doubt if anyone can explain it to you.  Most every knowledgeable football person can appreciate the difference.

I could have sworn that I already addressed the fact that I thought the claim that this was all about "the act of cheating" was still hypocritical bollocks. Otherwise, for example, Damien Duff would have been afraid to show his face around Dublin after diving to win a penalty against Spain in 2002 (or does Harte's subsequent miss excuse Duff?). But ok, despite your always humourless condescension, I'll have to concede your nitpick - if the issue causing the international incident is solely the fact that Henry handled the ball and was not penalized, it is not exactly equivalent to the Georgian being penalized when he almost certainly didn't handle the ball.

[trileacman]

There probably is merit in what he said about Saint Shay, it has been said before a weakness in Givens game is not commanding his area. I know he is beyond criticism but look at Lloris performance for France ( and I am not referring to his save from Duffs pathetic shot). Every cross came in he cleaned it out.

yeah but was roy in a position to say it?

[Main Street]

I could have sworn that I already addressed the fact that I thought the claim that this was all about "the act of cheating" was still hypocritical bollocks. Otherwise, for example, Damien Duff would have been afraid to show his face around Dublin after diving to win a penalty against Spain in 2002 (or does Harte's subsequent miss excuse Duff?). But ok, despite your always humourless condescension, I'll have to concede your nitpick - if the issue causing the international incident is solely the fact that Henry handled the ball and was not penalized, it is not exactly equivalent to the Georgian being penalized when he almost certainly didn't handle the ball.

You claimed Roy was absolutely correct to point out the hypocrisy as demonstrated by the the penalty incident in the Georgian game. My contention is that Roy is talking bollocks along with much of the negative cynical comments he made about the Irish performance and players like Given who stood up to him all those years ago.

The Georgian in full frontal view of the ref was deemed to handle the ball, the ball certainly moved in direction, no Irish player cheated.
Wasn't it Doyle who had a stonewall penalty claim already turned down in that game and a legit goal by Andrews was wrongfully disallowed. That is the game as we know it, some things go against us in a game and some things for.
There is no relevance between the Georgian game and the play off game.

I would be surprised that Roy watched enough of the Georgian game to have an opinion as he was probably too busy flicking through the channels.