Irish mercenaries, unionist coat trailers and the Bard of Dunclug

[Maguire01]

You seem to be mistaken that I and other republican's care about what the people of the south think

You don't? Why not? SF obviously care enough to contest elections and northern republicans aspire to be united with people in the south, do they not?

If you had a reasoned political and philosophical mind, you would know that to still be using bullet and bomb would only be ammunition against us. 

Whereas previously it was the right approach? Its use was not previously ammunition against the Republican cause?

Don't forget, as you keep reminding us of the fact that SF are administering British Rule that it is more efficient to take someting apart from within, than trying to get into something from outside, implosion will happen, thats always been SF's policy, how can we do that if not from within and all this when

So what's the argument for not taking seats at Westminster then? Working from the inside has most definitely not always been SF's policy. History lesson required.

[Evil Genius]

"The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day"  - A line from Brian Leeson's speech yesterday,

perhaps I've taken that out of context but that sounds chilling, I hope we're not meant to take that on face value.

How else was it meant to be taken?

In the end, whilst people on the Nationalist side see the antics of a few Loyalist rent-a-mob types yesterday and get seriously discomforted, their counterparts on the Unionsit side are no less disturbed when they hear the likes of Leeson issued his scarcely veiled threats.

[Evil Genius]

An alternative view would be that it was the dying, damp squib of loyalism waving wee union jacks at £180 a week Taliban and al-Qaida cannonfodder who are too thick to get a job doing anything else but dying for some parasite in buck house.  unionism has never been a proud, principled and legitimate movement in ireland ... unionism has been all about keeping the native Irish people down by violent and political means, an aparthied system practised by foreigners who always thought they were superior to the people they attempted to control ... but who never for a second of this centuries-long domination accepted that control, despite being labelled 'terrorists'  ... and talking of being deluded, if you think your british brothers and sisters give a flying fiddler's f**k about the scarf-wearing scum on the scaffodling yesterday, who were the REAL representation of an entire people ... now, go and swig a bottle of gaviscon, i'm sure you're suffering severe indigestion after swallowing that oxford english dictionary

You know, you're quite right, I'd never seen it that way! Anyhow, that's me persuaded and no mistake. Where do I sign up to join eirige?

P.S. Who was it predicted the following last Friday?

« Reply #720 on: October 31, 2008, 06:30:49 PM »   

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"Boys, there'll be a couple of coded phone warnings on Sunday morning and the parade by the brave heroes of the rir will be cancelled... end of story"

What went wrong, eh? Was your Mobile Phone out of Credit and your Mammy wouldn't give you an advance on your pocket money until you'd tidied your bedroom?

[pintsofguinness]

There are many better, more experienced and more intelligent men then you who have chosen to continue the struggle and improve things for out people (in both jurisdictions) by whatever means suit the times.

Donagh you are really outdoing yourself this time. Continue what struggle? Sitting in Stormont drinking tea with Peter Robinson and Reg Empty is in no way a continuing a struggle. The 1994 ceasefire was the unconditional surrender of the IRA. Sinn Fein taking their seats in Stormont was the final nail in the coffin. They are administering British rule in the North and the only thing more pathetic than that is the fact that you are in denial.
You spoke of a man who was imprisoned in every decade from the 40s to the 80s, is it any wonder we lost with volunteers of that caliber. Then again the people he trusted were probably working for the other side. Its not as if you arent riddled with informers now is it?  How is Scap keeping these days?  I believe he has a lovely little villa in Tuscany, I wonder who paid for that? Then again, where did the money for all those holiday homes in Donegal come from? Maybe Donaldson couldnt keep up his repayments 

So what 5ivetimes, do you think armed struggle should have continued?

[Tonto]

So what 5ivetimes, do you think armed struggle should have continued?

Aww, would you look at that.

"The struggle".

Did the poor souls "struggle" to murder, maim and bomb their way into a United.... er Kingdom Parliament in Belfast?

The f**king "struggle".  What a barrel of shite.

[pintsofguinness]

Did the poor souls "struggle" to murder, maim and bomb

Yeah, unlike your lot they hadn't a government and "security forces" to back them up or do it for them.

[red hander]

An alternative view would be that it was the dying, damp squib of loyalism waving wee union jacks at £180 a week Taliban and al-Qaida cannonfodder who are too thick to get a job doing anything else but dying for some parasite in buck house.  unionism has never been a proud, principled and legitimate movement in ireland ... unionism has been all about keeping the native Irish people down by violent and political means, an aparthied system practised by foreigners who always thought they were superior to the people they attempted to control ... but who never for a second of this centuries-long domination accepted that control, despite being labelled 'terrorists'  ... and talking of being deluded, if you think your british brothers and sisters give a flying fiddler's f**k about the scarf-wearing scum on the scaffodling yesterday, who were the REAL representation of an entire people ... now, go and swig a bottle of gaviscon, i'm sure you're suffering severe indigestion after swallowing that oxford english dictionary

You know, you're quite right, I'd never seen it that way! Anyhow, that's me persuaded and no mistake. Where do I sign up to join eirige?

P.S. Who was it predicted the following last Friday?

« Reply #720 on: October 31, 2008, 06:30:49 PM »   

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"Boys, there'll be a couple of coded phone warnings on Sunday morning and the parade by the brave heroes of the rir will be cancelled... end of story"

What went wrong, eh? Was your Mobile Phone out of Credit and your Mammy wouldn't give you an advance on your pocket money until you'd tidied your bedroom?

Nah, ran outta 10 pences oh lord knowitall shipyard historian and master of verbosity ... where's yer wee bastardised Irish RIR motto at the bottom of yer posts, i'm really missing it...

[Tonto]

Did the poor souls "struggle" to murder, maim and bomb

Yeah

Says it all, really.

[pintsofguinness]

What does it say?

[Evil Genius]

After all, if large numbers of Nationalists were not prepared to get out of bed on Sunday morning in order to be "offended", who's to say they'll all stride out on some future Thursday to a Polling Station, so as to be "liberated" via the stroke of a pencil?

I think the rest of us would see that as a sign of community confidence

You couldn't make this sort of stuff up - except you did!
So the fact that SF and eirige etc were unable to persuade more than a fraction of their usual supporters to forsake a couple of hours in bed, in order to be "offended" in person is a sign of "community confidence"?  
And there was me thinking that none but the most bitter and self-deluded amongst them (that includes you, btw) can be arsed to bother any longer with this sort of thing....

rather than what happened in the unionist community who had to rely on the mobilsation of the worst of the loyalist gangsters, lumpenproletariat and armed paramilitaries in order to secure a march for a few dozen wee lads in funny suits.

You know, I really think you believe that, don't you? Well as someone who has actually spoken to some of the Unionists who were there - unlike you - and who has a closer insight as to what makes Unionists tick than you, let me put my own interpretation on events.

This "Welcome Home Parade" would likely have persuaded a few thousand of the most committed i.e. friends and family, to come out to greet their loved ones back in Belfast. However, as soon as it became clear that SF were holding a counter-demonstration, thereby politicising the whole event, that prompted many more from the wider Unionist community to turn out than would otherwise have done so, in order to demonstrate the general goodwill which they hold towards the troops .

And when the temperature was raised even further, paricularly by the likes of eirige, with their provocative posters about "child murderers" etc, then that brought out their knuckle-dragging counterparts on the "Loyalist" [sic] side.

Which in turn allowed SF to come up with a new, almost clever, but nonetheless utterly misleading soundbite about so-called "Loyalist Mobilisation"   (It also served to distract from the utterly pathetic turnout they managed to attract).
Anyhow, the vast majority of Unionists on the pavements yesterday will have been as disgusted at seeing those paramilitary hoods attempt to hi-jack their day out, just as they will have been by the likes of SF and eirige, whom likewise tried to hi-jack it for their own ends.

As for the Loyalist hoods themselves, never mind "mobilisation", as someone said on Friday, these days their ability to organise collectively doesn't go beyond arranging a p1ss-up in a shebeen...

[mylestheslasher]

I don't buy this either. If you consider that the majorty of people in the UK and the USA are against the current war in Iraq then I don't believe that this protest could have a negative effect on 95% of unionists. Surely, within Unionism, there is a large amount of people who are against the war in Iraq.

You miss one very important part of the equation, yes lots of people in the UK and USA are against the war but almost all are in favour of the troops and thats a very important disctinction.
Yesterdays protests would be construed as anti-troops and therefore not very popular to say the least.

Is that why numerous cities in the UK decided against similar parades?

[Donagh]

Well I've news for you. Unionism does not exist merely as a riposte to Irish Nationalism, so that if Irish Nationalism were to be removed, then Unionism would suddenly evaporate before our eyes. Nor is Unionism something which has been imposed upon us by our Masters in England etc. In fact, Unionism has been a proud, principled and legitmate political movement in Ireland for every bit as long as Republicanism. Consequently, it will not be enough for the latter to clear away the offensive or threatening trappings of Irish Nationalism, put on its best suit and tie, present us with a fresh bunch of flowers and quote a few of Yeats's more lyrical verses, for our Unionist Heart to melt.

Really? Perhaps you would like to outline for us some of the principles and ideology behind this political movement? While you are at it perhaps you might like to tell us who were the main unionist figures around the time the first Irish republican movement was setup in 1791.

[Donagh]

"The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day"  - A line from Brian Leeson's speech yesterday,

perhaps I've taken that out of context but that sounds chilling, I hope we're not meant to take that on face value.

The context was asking permission from the Brits to walk down Irish roads.

[ardmhachaabu]

I was very impressed with the éirígí protest. Very far from the rabble and spides some people would have you believe. It was a disciplined and dignified protest with representation from all parts of Ireland - good to see so many making the early journey up from Dublin and Cork. Not one Celtic shirt on display and even Hardstation would be impressed by the amount of Gaelic being spoken among the crowd. In music terms you could say it was more Damian Dempsey than the Wolfe Tones.

Fivetimes now supports British troops marching on Irish streets. Whatever next... 

I had refrained till now to reply to this post as I saw something completely different myself on Sunday morning.  As a resident of the Lower Falls, with a clear view of all events I saw clearly loads of spides and wannabee RA 'men' complete with Celtic jerseys I might add.  I know that some former Provo prisoners showed their heads as well.  I am not saying that the crowd was full of rabble as it most clearly was not, there were people there purely out of conviction and truthfully there were more there out of conviction than there were scumbags.

The point I am making is that things were not as you portrayed them.  Scumbags were present and also... I spotted loads of Shinners in close proximity to events outside StMarys school.  It had been suggested in one of the Sunday papers that the Shinners did some sort of deal with the various dissident groups.  From what I witnessed on Sunday, I am inclined to believe it.

By the way, the reference to Celtic jerseys I made is borne out by pics in local newspapers this morning  

[Maguire01]

"The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day"  - A line from Brian Leeson's speech yesterday,

perhaps I've taken that out of context but that sounds chilling, I hope we're not meant to take that on face value.

The context was asking permission from the Brits to walk down Irish roads.

Yes, but what was meant by 'fight'? I think that is what is being questioned.