DUBLIN v TYRONE JANUARY 2009 CROKE PARK

[tyrone86]

Can we at least agree that this is just the GAA rolling out its cash cow once again

I agree totally, anyone trying to spin it any other way is either being naive or disingenuous.

but come championship the DCB will be told that they are no better than any other county board and every team should play in Croke Park and Dublin will have to move to suit every other county.

Ah come on, in the last 10 years how many times have Dublin played outside Croke Park in the Championship- v Longford in Pearse Park, v Derry in Clones and v Kerry in Thurles. Have I missed any?

[Tankie]

Can we at least agree that this is just the GAA rolling out its cash cow once again

I agree totally, anyone trying to spin it any other way is either being naive or disingenuous.

but come championship the DCB will be told that they are no better than any other county board and every team should play in Croke Park and Dublin will have to move to suit every other county.

Ah come on, in the last 10 years how many times have Dublin played outside Croke Park in the Championship- v Longford in Pearse Park, v Derry in Clones and v Kerry in Thurles. Have I missed any?

Yes but how many times were Dublin made share the stadium or told they must move the fixture even tho they had been given a date to play.

[Zulu]

Lads yer not seriously trying to say that all the fuss is because ye can't beat Tyrone in Croke Park, how do ye expect to win the AI if ye can't beat the big teams in Croke Park? Dublin are the GAA's major cash cow and should be 'milked' when we can as that money goes to help the GAA as a whole and what is the problem with that? I agree that on occassion the Dubs have been poorly treated but the GAA has to try and keep everyone happy but this is an impossible goal.

[heffo]

Can we at least agree that this is just the GAA rolling out its cash cow once again

I agree totally, anyone trying to spin it any other way is either being naive or disingenuous.

but come championship the DCB will be told that they are no better than any other county board and every team should play in Croke Park and Dublin will have to move to suit every other county.

Ah come on, in the last 10 years how many times have Dublin played outside Croke Park in the Championship- v Longford in Pearse Park, v Derry in Clones and v Kerry in Thurles. Have I missed any?

V Wexford in Carlow in 2002.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Nah, wer're getting better at it in recent years. We can take defeat better than most

Seriously, why not Kerry v Tyrone?

Ok here are just a few reasons why its not Tyrone v Kerry:

1) Just like every other year Tyrone v Dublin is the 1st game of league due to the system in place. It makes sense for the league to be launched with a big game - wouldnt make sense waiting to the second game.
2) Dublin has a population of over 1 million compared to Kerry's 140,000. Of course it makes sense to have a county with such a huge population involved in the game as it is much more likely to sell out.
3) The last time I looked Tyrone or Kerry doesnt have one of the best stadiums in Europe with a capacity of 83,000.
4) Kerry and Tyrone are over 300 miles apart whereas Dublin and Tyrone are just over 100 miles apart.

If anyone should be moaning it should be Tyrone families who are being asked to make a 250 mile round trip on a Saturday night in January with the prospect of not getting home til after midnight. The Dublin county board is happy with the match, the Dublin players are happy with the match, the majority of Dublin supporters are happy with the match (as was shown with a sell out crowd the last time) - would you lads get over yourselves and stopping coming up with ridiculous reasons for boycotting games.

[INDIANA]

Zulu you obviously never read my post. I was expecting the stream of vitriol, so I'm not going to respond to the indvidual insults But my reasons for not going are thus:

1- I enjoy the league games in Parnell. Its a welcome change from Croke Park . We've a good record there and its a cracking atmosphere there on a Sat night much better than Croke Park will be on the 31st.

2- If its a game celebrating the 125 th anniversary, it should be tyrone and kerry. We have no business being there after last year. We are not in the top 4 never mind the top 2.

3- Tired of being used as a cash cow for the Gaa. Its a such a hypocritical move from an organisation that never promoted the national league that it uses a one off game every 3 years to revive the 2nd most important inter county competition. They never promote it on any consistent basis except with these ridiculous one off events. We lose home advantage that everyone else gets, why?

4- The management are from my club, this is a 50/50 call. IF Dublin lose  which is quite likely then they are under immediate pressure. Vincents are universally loathed and detested throughout Dublin. There are a lot of people in Dublin waiting in the long grass on this one. A parnell park defeat wouldn't raise an eyebrow nationally and locally the level of discontent would be smaller. Dublin are in a rebuilding phase, they need this profile of  a game like a hole in the head. The DCB once again, instead of looking at the big picture just saw the euros.

I didn't sign a contract as a Gaa fan that I have to attend on the 31st. We all have our own reasons for doing things and I'm staying at home on this one. We have no business being there. We are not good enough to be there at the moment.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

That is fine since we get 0% now, and of course since it our ground now will we get 100% of the other sports money, the cooperate money and first refusal on fixtures .

How about you all just get over yourselves and just be glad that you have the biggest stadium in the whole country just down the road, closer than anyone else, and one that you all famously fill when Dublin come within a sniff of SAM?

No problem now that we own Croker we will make use of it . How much do you think an AI will get the DCB? I think Dublin should play hard ball with the GAA since Croker is pretty much the only show in town.

From what I can see the use of croke park is similar to that of Clones for ulster championship matches. Monaghan play there big league games in Clones and I have yet to here them come out with this nonesense about it not being a home game or come championship demanding exlusive use of it - they recognise the Ulster Council helped fund its development.

Croke Park is in Dublin and its a home game. Come championship you's play 90% of your games there and its rare you's are asked to play a double header when demand exceeds supply. Yet you's cant expect special treatment for "neutral" championship matches when playing during the summer when you's are already getting the advantage of playing at a Dublin venue developed by central funds.

[INDIANA]

its not a home venue its a neutral venue. You deem it a home venue by association rather than fact. We often have to play double headers there when it would be more financially viable to do otherwise. So don't start giving us this load of bollocks where the association have the financial viability of the association at heart when promoting charades like the 31st. In the summer they can't wait to deny Dublin a stand alone game when they could generate millions more for the association . Double standards and we're sick of them.

[Tyrone Dreamer]

its not a home venue its a neutral venue. You deem it a home venue by association rather than fact. We often have to play double headers there when it would be more financially viable to do otherwise. So don't start giving us this load of bollocks where the association have the financial viability of the association at heart when promoting charades like the 31st. In the summer they can't wait to deny Dublin a stand alone game when they could generate millions more for the association . Double standards and we're sick of them.

1) The game is in Dublin so its hardly a neutral venue.
2) You's are happy to play your home championship matches in Croke Park.
3) Prior to the late 90's were did Dublin play there home league games? Are you seriously trying to say that Dublin's home league games were played at a neutral venue up until the move to Parnell Park?
4) If Parnell Park is such a fortress how many division 1 league finals have you's reached since the move there? Were you's not playing out of Croke Park the last time you's reached a Division 1 final?
5) The gaa the last 2 years have went out of the way to give you's stand alone quarter finals with fixtures being moved around to accomadate it - you's may have doubled up with a hurling game that would only have attracted a couple of thousand max. No other county in Ireland gets a home county quarter final so if anything you's get an unfair advantage and your fans are saved a lot of hassle.
6) Croke Park is were you's play your summer football so it makes sense for new players to get used to it.
7) Dublin and its members are part of the gaa. Its not you's v the gaa, we're all the one organisation and the money generated from the matches benefits the whole organisation.

[INDIANA]

1- wembley is in london. Does that mean an fa cup final involving arsenal is a home game for them as well?

2- We're happy to play championship matches to in croke park, because we're fixed to play there. You guys who care so much about the financial viability of the association should be glad we do.

3- Dublin league games in the 90's were played in croke park , they couldn't be played in parnell park because it was a cow shed. We had no venue to play the games. Anyone who was present in croke park at these games like I  was will agree we had no advantage as the opposition had more fans than we had!

4- the reason why we haven't reached a div 1 final is twofold
a) we haven't been good enough
b) previous management used to train the bollocks off the team prior to some games which we lost and cost us any chance. We may have lost anyway, but as said previous 95% of these defeats were on the road. We've a very good record in parnell.

5- They've denied us stand alone games in the qualifiers before that could have generated millions for the association. That is a cast iron fact. They cost the association millions of euros by not doing so. So you'll forgive the more cynical of us when we listen to the argument "Oh think of the money it could it generate playing a one-off fixture in a welter of glitz and glamour in a competition that the association has no consistent approach to marketing" Laughable.

6- I don't think dublin's problem as been not been used to Croke park! Just haven't been good enough.

7- Back to the money argument. As I've said above if the GAA is so concerned about using Dublin to bankroll the association. Then why can't we play all our championship fixtures there? And before anyone starts the Dublin can't play outside Croke Park. Dublin's record on the road in the championship is excellent. and anyone who wants to dispute that should have a look at it.

[Buttofthehill]

1- wembley is in london. Does that mean an fa cup final involving arsenal is a home game for them as well?

2- We're happy to play championship matches to in croke park, because we're fixed to play there. You guys who care so much about the financial viability of the association should be glad we do.

3- Dublin league games in the 90's were played in croke park , they couldn't be played in parnell park because it was a cow shed. We had no venue to play the games. Anyone who was present in croke park at these games like I  was will agree we had no advantage as the opposition had more fans than we had!

4- the reason why we haven't reached a div 1 final is twofold
a) we haven't been good enough
b) previous management used to train the bollocks off the team prior to some games which we lost and cost us any chance. We may have lost anyway, but as said previous 95% of these defeats were on the road. We've a very good record in parnell.

5- They've denied us stand alone games in the qualifiers before that could have generated millions for the association. That is a cast iron fact. They cost the association millions of euros by not doing so. So you'll forgive the more cynical of us when we listen to the argument "Oh think of the money it could it generate playing a one-off fixture in a welter of glitz and glamour in a competition that the association has no consistent approach to marketing" Laughable.

6- I don't think dublin's problem as been not been used to Croke park! Just haven't been good enough.

7- Back to the money argument. As I've said above if the GAA is so concerned about using Dublin to bankroll the association. Then why can't we play all our championship fixtures there? And before anyone starts the Dublin can't play outside Croke Park. Dublin's record on the road in the championship is excellent. and anyone who wants to dispute that should have a look at it.

I'll be at the match but I agree totally with this.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Croke Park is owned by GAA HQ and as such should be used for the benefit of the association as a whole.

It is also located in Dublin and as such is a perfectly logical place for Dublin to play home games.

Those are both undeniable statements of fact and are the crux of the arguement. I really can;t see what some Dubs are yapping about.

[Tankie]

1- wembley is in london. Does that mean an fa cup final involving arsenal is a home game for them as well?

2- We're happy to play championship matches to in croke park, because we're fixed to play there. You guys who care so much about the financial viability of the association should be glad we do.

3- Dublin league games in the 90's were played in croke park , they couldn't be played in parnell park because it was a cow shed. We had no venue to play the games. Anyone who was present in croke park at these games like I  was will agree we had no advantage as the opposition had more fans than we had!

4- the reason why we haven't reached a div 1 final is twofold
a) we haven't been good enough
b) previous management used to train the bollocks off the team prior to some games which we lost and cost us any chance. We may have lost anyway, but as said previous 95% of these defeats were on the road. We've a very good record in parnell.

5- They've denied us stand alone games in the qualifiers before that could have generated millions for the association. That is a cast iron fact. They cost the association millions of euros by not doing so. So you'll forgive the more cynical of us when we listen to the argument "Oh think of the money it could it generate playing a one-off fixture in a welter of glitz and glamour in a competition that the association has no consistent approach to marketing" Laughable.

6- I don't think dublin's problem as been not been used to Croke park! Just haven't been good enough.

7- Back to the money argument. As I've said above if the GAA is so concerned about using Dublin to bankroll the association. Then why can't we play all our championship fixtures there? And before anyone starts the Dublin can't play outside Croke Park. Dublin's record on the road in the championship is excellent. and anyone who wants to dispute that should have a look at it.

I fully agree Indiana, I'm heading down to my club later and will be seeing what people make of the game in Croker. I know some of the lads were not too happy when the move was first suggested but we will see what the mood is now and if people are still considering not requesting tickets.

[Buttofthehill]

Croke Park is owned by GAA HQ and as such should be used for the benefit of the association as a whole.

It is also located in Dublin and as such is a perfectly logical place for Dublin to play home games.

Those are both undeniable statements of fact and are the crux of the arguement. I really can;t see what some Dubs are yapping about.

The crux of my argument is would it not be in the benefit of the GAA to see an even entertaining game between the best two teams in the country rather than a one sided slaughtering like last August?

[Tyrone Dreamer]

1- wembley is in london. Does that mean an fa cup final involving arsenal is a home game for them as well?

2- We're happy to play championship matches to in croke park, because we're fixed to play there. You guys who care so much about the financial viability of the association should be glad we do.

3- Dublin league games in the 90's were played in croke park , they couldn't be played in parnell park because it was a cow shed. We had no venue to play the games. Anyone who was present in croke park at these games like I  was will agree we had no advantage as the opposition had more fans than we had!

4- the reason why we haven't reached a div 1 final is twofold
a) we haven't been good enough
b) previous management used to train the bollocks off the team prior to some games which we lost and cost us any chance. We may have lost anyway, but as said previous 95% of these defeats were on the road. We've a very good record in parnell.

5- They've denied us stand alone games in the qualifiers before that could have generated millions for the association. That is a cast iron fact. They cost the association millions of euros by not doing so. So you'll forgive the more cynical of us when we listen to the argument "Oh think of the money it could it generate playing a one-off fixture in a welter of glitz and glamour in a competition that the association has no consistent approach to marketing" Laughable.

6- I don't think dublin's problem as been not been used to Croke park! Just haven't been good enough.

7- Back to the money argument. As I've said above if the GAA is so concerned about using Dublin to bankroll the association. Then why can't we play all our championship fixtures there? And before anyone starts the Dublin can't play outside Croke Park. Dublin's record on the road in the championship is excellent. and anyone who wants to dispute that should have a look at it.

1) Your talking about a different sport with a different situation/history. There is 100's of clubs in London compared to one county team in Dublin. Dublin use Croke Park for home championship matches and historically for league games so its a different situation to Arsenals.

2) Of course you's are happy to play championship matches in Croke Park -its a Dublin venue and cuts out travel. We'd be happy enough to play all our matches in any venue in Tyrone including All Ireland finals.

3) So Croke Park was a home venue in the 90's but now its a neutral one only for the league and only a home one for home championship games - that seems a strange logic.

4) You's have a decent record in Parnell but have lost plenty of games to. Wonder if you compared your record in Croke Park to Parnell over the last 4 year which would be better. Dont think its going to make a huge diffence to the outcome if its Parnell or Croke. Tyrone have one in both venues this decade in league games.

5) What qualifier matches are you referring to? I remember a Tyrone v Laois and Roscommon v Dublin header which didnt come close to selling out Croke Park so you's wouldnt have needed a stand alone game. You's havent even played in the qualifiers the last 4 years so Im not sure what the problem is here.

6) If you's arent good enough what difference does it matter were the game is played?

7) This money arguement is a joke. There is over a million people in Dublin of course more money will be made from it, just like more money will be spent on it. Dublin people should be happy with the money generated from the local econcomy through big games which other counties arent benefiting from. I love this I'm sick of us being used as a cashcow line - your giving the gaa no more I assume than any other member round the country. We all pay the same admission prices, we all pay the same for tops etc. Your not bankrolling the association any more than I am. If anyone is being used its the glory supporters who dont normally attend games to generate a bit of money. How much is it costing you for the game to be moved to Croke Park?