Shell to Sea

[muppet]

It is not a unique deal, all companies can write off their capital expenditure against their profits.

I still don't get this, even though you kindly tried twice on this thread alone.

If I set up a company and buy (with cash or borrowed money it doesn't seem to matter) 10 houses and subsequently rent them, does my company pay any tax on the rental income, or can my company pay myself (or the bank) back the entire cost of the 10 purchases before I pay any tax?

Serious question btw.

It's a very unrelated question I give you that.
A company who deals in property is generally treated as an investment company, they are taxed slightly differently from normal companies. Management expenses are allowed (rates, insurance, interest on loans etc) but there are restrictions on directors salaries.

That is all fine, but you said all companies. The nuances are lost on me here, or am I missing something that is obvious to everyone else?

[foxcommander]

That is an absolute disgrace as was the way the protesters were treated, manhandled etc.
How long have you to wait for a Garda to call if you're house was burgled etc?
And then our Gas is being given free to these Companies.....

I still don't know how the government think they are mandated to sell off the country's assets without consulting the people.
Any sale should involve revenue to the public (and i dont mean government pockets) pension funds for all citizens.

Wind farms will be the next one... who will profit from that?

[gerrykeegan]

It is not a unique deal, all companies can write off their capital expenditure against their profits.

I still don't get this, even though you kindly tried twice on this thread alone.

If I set up a company and buy (with cash or borrowed money it doesn't seem to matter) 10 houses and subsequently rent them, does my company pay any tax on the rental income, or can my company pay myself (or the bank) back the entire cost of the 10 purchases before I pay any tax?

Serious question btw.

It's a very unrelated question I give you that.
A company who deals in property is generally treated as an investment company, they are taxed slightly differently from normal companies. Management expenses are allowed (rates, insurance, interest on loans etc) but there are restrictions on directors salaries.

That is all fine, but you said all companies. The nuances are lost on me here, or am I missing something that is obvious to everyone else?

No all companies are allowed write off their allowable capital expenditure. You asked about a property rental company. I gave you some additional information about how they are taxed (hindsight I maybe shouldn't have)
I am not pro or anti Shell by the way. I am merely pointing out that Shell are acting within the tax acts. There is no special deal for them.

Should the private wind farms be treated any differently? They too have the same tax benefits. Should they pay for the wind?

[foxcommander]

It is not a unique deal, all companies can write off their capital expenditure against their profits.

I still don't get this, even though you kindly tried twice on this thread alone.

If I set up a company and buy (with cash or borrowed money it doesn't seem to matter) 10 houses and subsequently rent them, does my company pay any tax on the rental income, or can my company pay myself (or the bank) back the entire cost of the 10 purchases before I pay any tax?

Serious question btw.

It's a very unrelated question I give you that.
A company who deals in property is generally treated as an investment company, they are taxed slightly differently from normal companies. Management expenses are allowed (rates, insurance, interest on loans etc) but there are restrictions on directors salaries.

That is all fine, but you said all companies. The nuances are lost on me here, or am I missing something that is obvious to everyone else?

Should the private wind farms be treated any differently? They too have the same tax benefits. Should they pay for the wind?

If they are allowed to go ahead (which they should be) profits should go to the people, not government coffers.

[muppet]

It is not a unique deal, all companies can write off their capital expenditure against their profits.

I still don't get this, even though you kindly tried twice on this thread alone.

If I set up a company and buy (with cash or borrowed money it doesn't seem to matter) 10 houses and subsequently rent them, does my company pay any tax on the rental income, or can my company pay myself (or the bank) back the entire cost of the 10 purchases before I pay any tax?

Serious question btw.

It's a very unrelated question I give you that.
A company who deals in property is generally treated as an investment company, they are taxed slightly differently from normal companies. Management expenses are allowed (rates, insurance, interest on loans etc) but there are restrictions on directors salaries.

That is all fine, but you said all companies. The nuances are lost on me here, or am I missing something that is obvious to everyone else?

No all companies are allowed write off their allowable capital expenditure. You asked about a property rental company. I gave you some additional information about how they are taxed (hindsight I maybe shouldn't have)
I am not pro or anti Shell by the way. I am merely pointing out that Shell are acting within the tax acts. There is no special deal for them.

Should the private wind farms be treated any differently? They too have the same tax benefits. Should they pay for the wind?

I know you are sincere, all your posts have been.

But again I don't understand. My company spends money acquiring fixed assets for my business and I can't write off that cost against tax. But another company can? What is the difference?

BTW I see no comparison with wind and gas in this debate. Unless you manage to sell wind containers or charge for air.

[magpie seanie]

If someone told you that if you spent €3.4 billion you would gain income of more than double that figure what would you do? Even the dumbasses in the Government reckoned the gas was worth €8 billion back in 2008.

The chat here is depressing and it's easy to see how as a nation we continue to blink first. "If we don't give them ridiculous sweetneners they'll leave the gas in the ground" . It's like "if we tax the well off they'll all leave and we'll have no jobs" or if we didn't bail out the bank we'd be kicked out of the EU". Why have we such a tradition of doffing the cap to "our betters"? Sickens my hole.

[magpie seanie]

Muppet - most companies can write off their fixed assets over usually 8 years. If oil companies are allowed write their fixed assets off over a shorter period that would be special and beneficial treatment.

[gerrykeegan]

It is not a unique deal, all companies can write off their capital expenditure against their profits.

I still don't get this, even though you kindly tried twice on this thread alone.

If I set up a company and buy (with cash or borrowed money it doesn't seem to matter) 10 houses and subsequently rent them, does my company pay any tax on the rental income, or can my company pay myself (or the bank) back the entire cost of the 10 purchases before I pay any tax?

Serious question btw.

It's a very unrelated question I give you that.
A company who deals in property is generally treated as an investment company, they are taxed slightly differently from normal companies. Management expenses are allowed (rates, insurance, interest on loans etc) but there are restrictions on directors salaries.

That is all fine, but you said all companies. The nuances are lost on me here, or am I missing something that is obvious to everyone else?

No all companies are allowed write off their allowable capital expenditure. You asked about a property rental company. I gave you some additional information about how they are taxed (hindsight I maybe shouldn't have)
I am not pro or anti Shell by the way. I am merely pointing out that Shell are acting within the tax acts. There is no special deal for them.

Should the private wind farms be treated any differently? They too have the same tax benefits. Should they pay for the wind?

I know you are sincere, all your posts have been.

But again I don't understand. My company spends money acquiring fixed assets for my business and I can't write off that cost against tax. But another company can? What is the difference?

BTW I see no comparison with wind and gas in this debate. Unless you manage to sell wind containers or charge for air.

The cost of Property is generally not allowed to be written off against income (for tax purposes), with the exception of what are know as Industrial Buildings. (A factory for example) There are some other types of properties which qualify for this relief, nursing homes, palliative care units.

[macdanger2]

For me, one important difference is that a manufacturing company who comes here and writes off capital costs against profits has the choice to set up that facility practically anywhere in the world (assuming availability of skills). An exploration company however, can't extract the natural resources from anywhere in the world and so should be subject to more stringent tax regulations

[muppet]

It is not a unique deal, all companies can write off their capital expenditure against their profits.

I still don't get this, even though you kindly tried twice on this thread alone.

If I set up a company and buy (with cash or borrowed money it doesn't seem to matter) 10 houses and subsequently rent them, does my company pay any tax on the rental income, or can my company pay myself (or the bank) back the entire cost of the 10 purchases before I pay any tax?

Serious question btw.

It's a very unrelated question I give you that.
A company who deals in property is generally treated as an investment company, they are taxed slightly differently from normal companies. Management expenses are allowed (rates, insurance, interest on loans etc) but there are restrictions on directors salaries.

That is all fine, but you said all companies. The nuances are lost on me here, or am I missing something that is obvious to everyone else?

No all companies are allowed write off their allowable capital expenditure. You asked about a property rental company. I gave you some additional information about how they are taxed (hindsight I maybe shouldn't have)
I am not pro or anti Shell by the way. I am merely pointing out that Shell are acting within the tax acts. There is no special deal for them.

Should the private wind farms be treated any differently? They too have the same tax benefits. Should they pay for the wind?

I know you are sincere, all your posts have been.

But again I don't understand. My company spends money acquiring fixed assets for my business and I can't write off that cost against tax. But another company can? What is the difference?

BTW I see no comparison with wind and gas in this debate. Unless you manage to sell wind containers or charge for air.

The cost of Property is generally not allowed to be written off against income (for tax purposes), with the exception of what are know as Industrial Buildings. (A factory for example) There are some other types of properties which qualify for this relief, nursing homes, palliative care units.

Ok thanks guys, I have a better idea. There are categories of property, some which qualify and some which don't.

[Dinny Breen]

We could be taxing the oil/gas to the hilt and still some people would whinge and moan, that is what modern Ireland has become. That is the most obvious thing on this thread.

How much has been spent on oil/gas exploration and how much profit has been made off these wonderful natural resources? Has anyone got these figures? If we are so generous why aren't the oil companies queuing at our door?

Billions has been spent exploring Ireland's seascape by oil corporations yet Ireland, which as no oil refining culture (we have one oil refinery and that's up for sale and is struggling to find a buyer, kinda tells you what the market things of our oil resources), should suddenly spend billions exploring and further billions developing infrastructure to support it!!! Personally I had no strong opinions either way on Shell to Sea but would despair if I saw billions of money been diverted on pipe dreams...

Anyhow as you were with populist ideals....

[macdanger2]

We could be taxing the oil/gas to the hilt and still some people would whinge and moan, that is what modern Ireland has become. That is the most obvious thing on this thread.

How much has been spent on oil/gas exploration and how much profit has been made off these wonderful natural resources? Has anyone got these figures? If we are so generous why aren't the oil companies queuing at our door?

Billions has been spent exploring Ireland's seascape by oil corporations yet Ireland, which as no oil refining culture (we have one oil refinery and that's up for sale and is struggling to find a buyer, kinda tells you what the market things of our oil resources), should suddenly spend billions exploring and further billions developing infrastructure to support it!!! Personally I had no strong opinions either way on Shell to Sea but would despair if I saw billions of money been diverted on pipe dreams...

Anyhow as you were with populist ideals....

A bit of a whinging / moaning post there yourself dinny tbf.

You seem to be starting from the viewpoint that we need to get this resource up and out of the ground as soon as possible - we don't. If Shell had the option of a better field in which to drill in another country, they'd be gone in a shot so it can't be that bad out there. I don't believe we should drill for this ourselves but we certainly should have more of a stake in what comes out of the ground.

Of the 3.4Bn spent, how much of it would you estimate has actually remained in the Irish economy? The tax receipts from the workers, purchase of some basic building supplies, a multiplier effect to the local economy, probably some other things that I'm missing. The largest fraction of the money will have been spent outside the country buying drilling equipment, surveying software, piping, etc - no benefit to our economy and yet can be written off against profits made here.

[Dinny Breen]

We could be taxing the oil/gas to the hilt and still some people would whinge and moan, that is what modern Ireland has become. That is the most obvious thing on this thread.

How much has been spent on oil/gas exploration and how much profit has been made off these wonderful natural resources? Has anyone got these figures? If we are so generous why aren't the oil companies queuing at our door?

Billions has been spent exploring Ireland's seascape by oil corporations yet Ireland, which as no oil refining culture (we have one oil refinery and that's up for sale and is struggling to find a buyer, kinda tells you what the market things of our oil resources), should suddenly spend billions exploring and further billions developing infrastructure to support it!!! Personally I had no strong opinions either way on Shell to Sea but would despair if I saw billions of money been diverted on pipe dreams...

Anyhow as you were with populist ideals....

A bit of a whinging / moaning post there yourself dinny tbf.

You seem to be starting from the viewpoint that we need to get this resource up and out of the ground as soon as possible - we don't. If Shell had the option of a better field in which to drill in another country, they'd be gone in a shot so it can't be that bad out there. I don't believe we should drill for this ourselves but we certainly should have more of a stake in what comes out of the ground.

Of the 3.4Bn spent, how much of it would you estimate has actually remained in the Irish economy? The tax receipts from the workers, purchase of some basic building supplies, a multiplier effect to the local economy, probably some other things that I'm missing. The largest fraction of the money will have been spent outside the country buying drilling equipment, surveying software, piping, etc - no benefit to our economy and yet can be written off against profits made here.

I am not of that opinion, I am of neutral opinion, I have yet to see a feasible alternative offered to the current exploration model that is not populist idealism.

[lynchbhoy]

I think people are unhappy with the seemingly small percentage return on the gas.
Yes the oil/ gas companies have to front the money, but only do so after knowing the costs and the amount of projected minimum profit.
Their figures added up to enable them to proceed and they can write off as much as they can after creating accounting practices.
The 8% that the Irish exchequer stands to gain could be feck all after the accountants do their bit.
Its something that we have no real control over.
same for all commercial companies though.
However for such large figures and supposed profit, we would like to see us receiving a bit of a return as well as a good few more local jobs (though the knock on effect in local economy would hopefully be reasonably positive).

The policing of this was poor alright.

I cant recall what percentage of the spoils that I heard the Norwegian gov took from their version of this (am I even getting the country correct!). But after creative accounting, even 50% might ad up to total  15 euros!!!!!

[Rossfan]

I read somewhere that the Norwegian Govt have a sovereign fund of around €500Bn from their Oil Royalties.