Justin McCarthy steps down

[IolarCoisCuain]

Eloquent and accurate as ever AZ. And I hope you don't think I'm ruffling Faithful feathers if I say that the Michael Bond precedence isn't the most reliable for these discontented Déise-men. If Jimmy Cooney hadn't blown up early that time, would Offaly have even got to that final?

People do a lot of blowing about promoting hurling. Nobody has done more in the past seventy years to spread a hurling gospel beyond its traditional strongholds than Justin McCarthy, and little thanks he's ever got for it. He's right to walk away from this Waterford mess - those fellas don't deserve him.

[Guillem2]

People do a lot of blowing about promoting hurling. Nobody has done more in the past seventy years to spread a hurling gospel beyond its traditional strongholds than Justin McCarthy, and little thanks he's ever got for it. He's right to walk away from this Waterford mess - those fellas don't deserve him.

Very true. Justin managed Antrim in the 70s and is a frequent visitor to these parts coaching young fellas. He keeps it all low key. A sad way for it all to end in Waterford but I'd expect Justin to be back coaching before too long..

[heineken_on_tap]

I would be sorry for McCarty too. In saying that it is easy to blame the players in these situations but if the players are not happy with the manager then he has to go. It is easy to criticise them but only the people involved know what is going on. Looking back at the Clare game the majority of the Waterford lads were not playing with any spirit and that comes down to the manager in my book.

These lads have given great service to Waterford hurling over the years and possibly just need to hear a new voice to mix things up. Losing the last day out  was not a disaster at all, indeed cut loose from the Munster championship and if they can get in a good manager in they could be a dangerous animal in the qualifiers..

[AZOffaly]

It may well be that Justin and the players had reached a logical breaking point. But I'd argue that they should have voiced this after the championship last year, or perhaps during the league, or even when Justin outlined his preparation schedule for 2008.

To do it after a defeat, and to do it in the manner they did, was poorly judged in my opinion, and doesn't do justice to the man himself.

I should add that I've not heard for certain what the outcome of that meeting was. Some are saying a vote of 'No Confidence' was passed. Others are saying that it was simply a recommendation/request that training be stepped up/changed.

Either way, why it was a secretive exercise is open for debate, and that must have hurt Justin more than anything.

[INDIANA]

i don;t agree about the spirit thing that's bullshit. any team that packs it in mentally like that will do so again when put under pressure, it has nothing to do with the manager. i firmly believe the tank is empty for waterford and that manifested itself last weekend. some of the players could do with a seaosn off, but in some cases they haven't a season to waste. first good team to play them in the qualifiers will beat them.

[playwiththewind1st]

He never delivered the Holy Grail... the fact is that he brought a very good bunch of players as far as he could.. the only way is down... There is little consolation in winning the Munster Championship when Limerick beat you in the All Ireland semi-final... Perhaps there could be a role in Antrim for Justin??? Behind the scenes of course..

Don't speak too soon - would a place on the starting lineup for the USHC final be a possibility?

[heineken_on_tap]

i don;t agree about the spirit thing that's bullshit. any team that packs it in mentally like that will do so again when put under pressure, it has nothing to do with the manager. i firmly believe the tank is empty for waterford and that manifested itself last weekend. some of the players could do with a seaosn off, but in some cases they haven't a season to waste. first good team to play them in the qualifiers will beat them.

Fair enough but at times during the game they gave the Clare lads so much time to compose themselves and shoot it looked to me they were lacking motivation and spirit. Were they really giving it their all and playing for McCarthy? Not all the players in fairness but most of them were not IMO..

[johnneycool]

i don;t agree about the spirit thing that's bullshit. any team that packs it in mentally like that will do so again when put under pressure, it has nothing to do with the manager. i firmly believe the tank is empty for waterford and that manifested itself last weekend. some of the players could do with a seaosn off, but in some cases they haven't a season to waste. first good team to play them in the qualifiers will beat them.

Fair enough but at times during the game they gave the Clare lads so much time to compose themselves and shoot it looked to me they were lacking motivation and spirit. Were they really giving it their all and playing for McCarthy? Not all the players in fairness but most of them were not IMO..

Justin did the only logical thing he could of done in the situation. He leaves Wateford in a healthier state than when he arrived and he owes Waterford nothing.

Rather than portraying the players in a bad light, i think the whole set up just got stale, 7 years is a long time in anyones book and everyone knew it, it just needed that someone or something to say so and I'd suggest the county board and Justin saved face out of this.
Now the players can get themselves back on track to get back into Croke park later on in the year, they've got their wish, now it's time to deliver..

[INDIANA]

i don't think that can be turned around, maybe they wanted to get him sacked and played like that but mullane played like a demon so it would suggest that not everyone is in agreement on the panel. but it looked to me like a lot of them packed it in. i think shanahan and prendergast weren't fit and maybe shouldn't have played but waterford have anumber of players with "issues" over the years and seems they don;t like to be told what to do by anyone. this really is throwing the toys out of the pram though and if it goes pear shaped, hard to see what way it will pan out. i can't see them doing anything anyway.

[bottlethrower7]

I wouldn't have been Justin's greatest fan as a coach, especially during games, as I felt he made some strange decisions from time to time, or else was very slow to make positional or tactical changes during a game.

nail on the head. Good trainer. Not a good manager. Remember too, that this isn't the first time there has been unrest. The players criticised him in 2002, before they won the munster final. Winning that soon shut them up. That time their gripe was that they weren't doing enough physical training. Justin did take it on board though, and the following few years Waterford were the fittest team in the league by a street (just like tipp this year), but shot their bolt too soon in the season (remains to be seen this year with tipp_

He also never really solved the problem at full back, which has haunted Waterford several times.

it was an unsolvable problem though. Its not like he was picking the wrong player while there was someone glaringly obviously better waiting in the wings. Moran made no sense there, but when you look at the options, who better was there? Particularly among those not tried there before.

I felt he should have stood down after last year

I'd agree, but I think that from his perspective he had nothing to prove. Chances are he wasn't gonna bring the team any further than before (even though I still believe if WD had made it to the All-Ireland last year, they'd have pulled one last big performance out of the bag against KK, and probably would have won the thing).

I heard that this current unrest came to a head on a training camp in Portugal. Players came out and criticised him then, albeit after he asked them for feedback on how things were progressing for the season. He threatened to go then, but hung around. Waterford's problem was always in their heads, never their ability. Sure they might have lacked one or two players, but what team down the years hasn't. Once you lose the players mentally, when it comes to waterford I think its time to forget it.

[hurl4ever]

think its a disgrace what happened to justin. made alot of strides with the team, still felt that they could have gone a long way when the fellas got back from injury. they are a different team with ken mc grath, eoin murphy and eoin kelly, and also paul flynn to take on. they would have brought abit of passion back.

i also heard that shanahan was at the front of the players meeting looking for the change, he was a disgrace against clare not shaken justins hand going off....someone should tell him to get his head out of his ass, if it was some fella making his debut and played the way he did, they would have been pulled off at half time. it was only out of respect on justins behalf that he kept him on for so long. i weeeeee bit of effort wouldnt have went amisss there dan!!!!

i personally would love to see waterford win an all ireland, and they are a stronger team when they get the injured boys back, but with a full back line like theres, its obvious why they havent won one!

good luck justin in the future. 

[orangeman]

i don;t agree about the spirit thing that's bullshit. any team that packs it in mentally like that will do so again when put under pressure, it has nothing to do with the manager. i firmly believe the tank is empty for waterford and that manifested itself last weekend. some of the players could do with a seaosn off, but in some cases they haven't a season to waste. first good team to play them in the qualifiers will beat them.

Fair enough but at times during the game they gave the Clare lads so much time to compose themselves and shoot it looked to me they were lacking motivation and spirit. Were they really giving it their all and playing for McCarthy? Not all the players in fairness but most of them were not IMO..

You're missing something really important here Heineken - they weren't playing for Mc Carthy or anybody else - they should have been playing for Waterford and the jersey - Big Dan was a disgrace to the jersey, himself, his club and Waterford - not shaking Justin's hand going off shows what a childish lad he is - did he think by having one good season gave him the right to lead a revolt against Mc Carthy ? I suppose Big Dan reckons that HE was the reason why he and Waterford had such a good year last year ? I suppose he reckons it had nothing to do with Mc Carthy !!!!!!!

Remebember the difference between winning and losing last year was Donal Og's hurl !!!

[blasmere]

i don;t agree about the spirit thing that's bullshit. any team that packs it in mentally like that will do so again when put under pressure, it has nothing to do with the manager. i firmly believe the tank is empty for waterford and that manifested itself last weekend. some of the players could do with a seaosn off, but in some cases they haven't a season to waste. first good team to play them in the qualifiers will beat them.

Fair enough but at times during the game they gave the Clare lads so much time to compose themselves and shoot it looked to me they were lacking motivation and spirit. Were they really giving it their all and playing for McCarthy? Not all the players in fairness but most of them were not IMO..

You're missing something really important here Heineken - they weren't playing for Mc Carthy or anybody else - they should have been playing for Waterford and the jersey - Big Dan was a disgrace to the jersey, himself, his club and Waterford - not shaking Justin's hand going off shows what a childish lad he is - did he think by having one good season gave him the right to lead a revolt against Mc Carthy ? I suppose Big Dan reckons that HE was the reason why he and Waterford had such a good year last year ? I suppose he reckons it had nothing to do with Mc Carthy !!!!!!!

Remebember the difference between winning and losing last year was Donal Og's hurl !!!

That was 2006 Orangeman, I'm not convinced they'd have beaten Kilkenny that year or even last year. Kilkenny have an inner resolve allied to being brilliant hurlers. Waterford don't have enough of that and unfortunately, I think the time has now passed for this current bunch of players.

[Lar Naparka]

For me, it's a case of history repeating itself.
In Mayo we had a football manager over 25 years ago named Brian McDonald. The players were unhappy with Brian's training methods and moved to get him dropped.
Jack O'Shea was the person chosen to replace him.
The following year O'Shea led Mayo to one of their heaviest defeats ever, against Cork in an All Ireland semi-final.
The players' excuse for having McDonald shafted was shown for what it was- an attempt to deflect criticism from themselves onto the manager. Writing about it in The Title, Liam Hayes suggested that at the next training session the players should be brought into a room with a television set. After that someone should put on a video of the game, turn down the sound and leave players and new manager on their own to watch it.
Okay, no one has been daft enough to take over Justin McCarthy's job as yet but might I suggest that the players be invited to sit down and take a look at what they were like on the field last Sunday.
If any of them has had a genuine grievance against the manager it should have been aired prior to the game or in private afterwards. On the field of play McCarthy had no actual control over what they did.
With the honourable exception of John Mullane, I feel the rest of the side left its dignity and self-respect on the field behind them.

[Rossfan]

In Mayo we had a football manager over 25 years ago named Brian McDonald. The players were unhappy with Brian's training methods and moved to get him dropped.
Jack O'Shea was the person chosen to replace him.
The following year O'Shea led Mayo to one of their heaviest defeats ever, against Cork in an All Ireland semi-final.

Lar -have you checked the calendar lately ?  This is 2008 and the events you are on about happened in 1992/3.

As for Justin - as someone said earlier - he should have moved on last year as him and those players had gone as far as they could together.
A new voice and methods with accompanying freshness  might just have got one last hurrrah out of them.
As for the future - as a Waterford man(coincidentally) once said to  me - the future will as usual take care of itself.
If it's the end for this particular bunch may I say thanks for some great entertainment over the last 6 years or so.
I dont think I ever saw as much excitement and delight from any crowd as I did when they won that first Munster Final in 39 years.