Paying Managers and Hypocrisy

[passedit]

I've been following the GPA debate on both this site and AFR with interest. My own position is that the GAA in it's present form cannot support professionalism so i'm against pay for play. I feel like a hypocrite, though as i've stood by and watched my own club pay people to manage our senior football team. I've felt for a long time that the principle of professionalism had been conceded with payments to managers (from the top to the bottom of the association) and the genie could not now be put back in the bottle.

Having read Bud's contribution about managers however I see a possible way for the GAA to stop the rot.

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You can't turn a blind eye to managers getting paid thousands of euros when holding up up the amateur status placard to the players. In my view the GAA needs to take the lead role in this.

The first move that should be made by the GAA is that managers should not be selected to manage a team from outside their own county and the mobile Messiahs of Paudi O'Shea, O'Dwyer, Mullins, O'Mahoney  and and others like them should be either managing their own county or none.  Even if they were never getting paid, and that is one whopper of an if, they give the impression that they are so important to the counties they arrive in that they are getting paid.  You can be absolutely certain that there are players on this board who resented at some time the call for an extra lap in training because they thought yer man shouting the order was on about a hundred grande. The gaa should put an end to this forthwith and introduce a proper management (Badge Course) to nominated members from every county who have an interest in management to be provided with a proper traing course.  That way, because the knowledge will be filtered back to local clubs weaker counties, especially in hurling would have some chance of improving instead of just the elite ones. Instead we have weaker counties who do not even have a manager of badge calibre.

I'd go further though, and add the rule that the manager of a club should be subject to the same rules of eligibilty as the players he's in charge of.

If the GAA is really serious about retaining it's amateur ethos it should do this, if not why not go the whole hog and pay the players?

How many of the fundamentalists on here who'd have Dessie's guts for garters are turning a blind eye to what's happening in their own clubs?

[orangeman]

We've a GPA representative on the board now thank God - at least we can get a proper debate going now. 

[AZOffaly]

I am 100% against paying managers anything other than expenses, VALID expenses, but I'm not sure about this proposal. I know the mention of 'badges' and coaching certification would help standards, but is there really someone in places like Mayo, Donegal, Sligo etc that would be a really good hurling coach.

From Offaly's perspective, the importing of Dermot Healy from Kilkenny was a vital part of the development of Offaly as a hurling county.

Again, I am totally against mercenary managers, and the likes of Micko and Paudi and co annoy me whenever I see them on telly, but we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Gnevin]

I am 100% against paying managers anything other than expenses, VALID expenses, but I'm not sure about this proposal. I know the mention of 'badges' and coaching certification would help standards, but is there really someone in places like Mayo, Donegal, Sligo etc that would be a really good hurling coach.

From Offaly's perspective, the importing of Dermot Healy from Kilkenny was a vital part of the development of Offaly as a hurling county.

Again, I am totally against mercenary managers, and the likes of Micko and Paudi and co annoy me whenever I see them on telly, but we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Just going to say that AZ where would you find a decent hurling man in these places?

[passedit]

Why don't they go the whole hog and get a few decent hurlers on the payroll instead? It's the same principle.

What really gets me is that every hole in the hedge seems to be paying managers nowadays to the extent that many are making a second career out of it while the GAA turns a blind eye to it.

Unless the GAA addresses this issue, the principle of professionalism has been conceded and the GPA has every right to shout for their fair share.

[AZOffaly]

You misunderstand my point passedit. I am not in favour of paying these 'blow ins'. But I believe that there are external managers who would coach in these counties for various reasons, from building up their own CVs to bible thumping evangelism, for nothing more than fair mileage and other expenses. I completely agree that under no circumstances should managers be paid above and beyond that. It's the same principle I hold regarding money to the players themselves.

[rrhf]

There were question marks over a number of players playing for some club in Dublin getting pay for play were there not, now we have questions marks over mangrs getting paid.  All managers should have to be a registered club member from a club within that county for a couple of years before they could manage that county. 

[AZOffaly]

Then Dinny Cahill would never have managed Antrim, Pete Finnerty would not be looking after Mayo hurlers and Laois would never have seen Micko. Okay, the last one was facetious, but there are a lot of examples of lads like the other two. Not every external manager is getting under the table payments, and none of them should be.

[passedit]

I know what you're saying AZ, however too many clubs and counties has proven themselves unworthy of trust as far as fair expenses are concerned, therefore the only way to stop the abuse is to stop the process altogether.

Either that or do it all above board and pay the tax and ni as well.

[AZOffaly]

Or else the GAA should make sure that every club and county submits proper accounts  and carry out a couple of audits every year. If county board, or club, funds are being spent on Managers then a proper financial process would identify them fairly quickly I think.

Is there a will though? I think this is the weakest area of the GAA in any future battle with the GPA. They must be consistent.

[passedit]

How many clubs and counties are properly audited? What about supporters clubs and wealthy local businessmen? Where do you start and where do you stop? You're right about it being the GAA's greatest weakness in the battle against professionalism, that's why it has to be tackled hard now.

[orangeman]

We're on a very very slippery slope !!!!!!!!

[AZOffaly]

That's what I'm saying, the clubs and counties should be audited for any discrepancies that might indicate illegal payments. But I think the only thing the GAA can do is to make sure the constituent counties and clubs are clean, in terms of money belonging to them. What can be done about businessmen operating outside the County Board to entice outsiders with money? Well I'm not sure to be honest. You have to draw the line of control somewhere, and if JP McManus, for example, wants to give Brian Cody €100,000 a year to listen favourably to any overtures from Limerick, there's not a lot the GAA can do I suppose, as long as it is completely independent of the Co. Board. That wouldn't be a million miles away from the current practice of GAA minded businessmen giving players jobs to keep them in the county/country. It's hard to legislate for that.

[passedit]

What can be done about businessmen operating outside the County Board to entice outsiders with money? Well I'm not sure to be honest.

What can be done is introduce and enforce elligibility rules, hence no incentive to pay backhanders, much easier to police than auditing accounts imo. It also sends a signal that the GAA is serious about the issue.

[orangeman]

Does Dessie get paid at the minute ?

If so, how much ?

If not, will he get paid ? Is he trying to get a piad position ?