Armagh v Kerry

[Look-Up!]

I think this article gives a very strong insight into the way Jack O'Connor is thinking.

JACK O'Connor and Kerry were never going to move unimpeded onto an All-Ireland SFC final four without poking through the entrails of that damned Derry quarter-final. With Gaelic football in the dock, O'Connor's good manners in meeting media on Monday presented the forum for further discussion on the state of the game.

When we left him in the media room in the bowels of Croke Park over a week ago, he said folk were living on the outer realms of sanity if they thought success went hand-in-hand with a pick-up sort of game, free-wheeling and fancy. Having watched their 0-15 to 0-10 victory back, he wasn't minded to change in that respect, but conceded Kerry weren't exactly at full throttle themselves.

Though, he explained, there might be historical reasons for such conservatism.

"I am well aware it was a very unattractive game, he reasoned. "Could we be better against that kind of set up? Absolutely. But remember, Kerry have got burned in the past against teams that set up like that.

"That set up is completely designed for you to give away the ball and the opposition to hit you on the counter attack. It's not a huge surprise that our players were a bit conservative, maybe a bit too careful at times with the ball. And maybe that aggravated people."

He added: "Remember it's only 2021 that Kerry came up against a similar set up against Tyrone in an All-Ireland semi-final, and had 33 turnovers and conceded three goals in that game. When you've been burned like that in the past ,it does possibly leave a bit of scar tissue.

"I am not saying we are tactical geniuses (now). Go back again to that game in 2021, before this management took over, you can't keep giving the ball back to the opposition like that and not expect to get punished for it.

"That (episode) informed a lot of our coaching in the couple of years since. The game has changed. Sure we would love to kick the ball first time into David Clifford, we'd love to kick in a few high ones. It's not living in the real world to expect us to be bombing the ball in like 2004 when we had Johnny Crowley, Dara O Cinnéide and Kieran Donaghy. A lot of the times they were one on one in there."

The sense that something not dissimilar awaits Kerry in Saturday's semi-final is Armagh does not demand a stretch of imagination, but O'Connor wasn't about to start advising the opposition how to milk their cows.

"I am not going to criticise any teams for setting up like that, they are not breaking the rules, as they stand. People are dissatisfied with the game, and we are not overly happy with the way it is either, but we have to play what is in front of us. Teams set up in the best way to give them their best chance of winning. I presume they will be solid defensively and play on the counter attack, but who knows, they might a more attack minded game. We have to be prepared to play it both ways.

"My sense is that Kerry supporters and observers in general believe that Kerry, or any team, can come out of the blocks and play barnstorming football, and blow oppositions away. That's absolutely not the real world, the way that teams are setting up at the moment."

Both before he took over in 2000, and when O'Connor was in the final year of his first term in 2006, Kerry and Armagh played a pair of ding-ding Croke Park battles, with the score 1-1.

"In that quarter final in 2006, we played Armagh in one of the most enjoyable games I have ever been involved in. That time you could walk around the back of the goals, which I did, because our backs were under ferocious pressure. The way Armagh were playing, with Steven McDonnell and Ronan Clarke inside, and Oisin McConville playing off them was fantastic football to watch and very effective. But you try to do that now, and more often than not the backs are going to be coming out with it purely on the basis of numbers.

"We'd love to go back to that era, that was an absolutely epic game, one of the games (outside of All-Irelands) that stands out in my head. But football has changed dramatically in the meantime and we had to change with it."

So the Derry affair is washed out of their hair at this stage? "Again, could we have been more energetic, and more adventurous, even with those constraints on the day? Of course, we could. But you can't blame the players, who had got burned against that sort of system in the past, for having to feel their way into the game. In the second half we got the mix and the balance a bit better.

"It was a very structured game, and we were thinking on the sideline that it was going to take some fella coming in here and doing something different. That's what Cillian Burke did, he hit straight lines and punched holes, the sort of stuff he's very good at. He was exactly the right man at the right time to break that system and structure that Derry had. That gave our fellas the lead and confidence to drive on and go for it."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41432407.html

The bit highlighted is absolute BS. Kerry walked through Tyrone first half. Off the top of my head they left about 2-6 behind them, at least one open goal, there might have been another. Tyrone smelled blood, grew into game and then seized the whole momentum. Kerry panicked and started making bad decisions.
 O'Connor is entitled to set up whatever way he wants but be a man and say it and not try blame other teams for "dishonorable tactics". If 2021 was the reason it's because his forwards cannot be trusted to run up a scoreboard when completely on top.

[blanketattack]

I think this article gives a very strong insight into the way Jack O'Connor is thinking.

JACK O'Connor *Snip* ."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41432407.html

The bit highlighted is absolute BS. Kerry walked through Tyrone first half. Off the top of my head they left about 2-6 behind them, at least one open goal, there might have been another. Tyrone smelled blood, grew into game and then seized the whole momentum. Kerry panicked and started making bad decisions.
 O'Connor is entitled to set up whatever way he wants but be a man and say it and not try blame other teams for "dishonorable tactics". If 2021 was the reason it's because his forwards cannot be trusted to run up a scoreboard when completely on top.

Doesn't stop the fact that Kerry were very naive in that game.
Players running into traps of 3 or 4 Tyrone players, then Tyrone countering at speed opening Kerry up at will.
Kerry only stayed in that game because of David Clifford. Scored 0-8 and set up another 5 or 6.

Contrast that with Kerry v Tyrone last year. Clifford only scores 0-1 from play yet Kerry win 2-18 to 0-12 with the team set up to be very tight in defence and forwards more cautious.

[Captain Obvious]

Jack O'Connor is no fool and knows Kerry without their protective defensive shield are poor in defence and will leak big scores without it. That's why Tyrone got in for three goals in 2021 and even during the league this year it was seen when Kerry played Dublin and conceded 3-18.

[RedHand88]

Kerry really haven't got over losing to Tyrone in 2021 have they.

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Kerry really haven't got over losing to Tyrone in 2021 have they.

I'd say winning the All Ireland in 2022 has helped a lot with that to be fair!

Have to thank Tyrone really in the long run. Like 2003 a defeat that helped us get rid of a dead duck management.

[blanketattack]

Kerry really haven't got over losing to Tyrone in 2021 have they.

I'd say winning the All Ireland in 2022 has helped a lot with that to be fair!

Have to thank Tyrone really in the long run. Like 2003 a defeat that helped us get rid of a dead duck management.

And beating them in the Championship by 12 points since then!

[pbat]

I don't believe Kerry have really got over 2002, 2003 and 2005. Yes they've won numerous all Irelands since but I think them 3 years are dug into the Kerry physie. Remember the OTT reaction to beating a poor Tyrone team in a qualifier in Killarney a few years ago.

[tonto1888]

I see Kieran Hughes from Monaghan had said the Armagh players will take a 2 point loss. Sums up monaghans attitude really

[5times5times]

ticketmaster are some shower of *****.... less than 12hrs before game, open up middle of upper hogan, excellent seats.

but cameras of hogan & canal will be packed.

crooks

[Look-Up!]

I think this article gives a very strong insight into the way Jack O'Connor is thinking.

JACK O'Connor *Snip* ."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41432407.html

The bit highlighted is absolute BS. Kerry walked through Tyrone first half. Off the top of my head they left about 2-6 behind them, at least one open goal, there might have been another. Tyrone smelled blood, grew into game and then seized the whole momentum. Kerry panicked and started making bad decisions.
 O'Connor is entitled to set up whatever way he wants but be a man and say it and not try blame other teams for "dishonorable tactics". If 2021 was the reason it's because his forwards cannot be trusted to run up a scoreboard when completely on top.

Doesn't stop the fact that Kerry were very naive in that game.
Players running into traps of 3 or 4 Tyrone players, then Tyrone countering at speed opening Kerry up at will.
Kerry only stayed in that game because of David Clifford. Scored 0-8 and set up another 5 or 6.

Contrast that with Kerry v Tyrone last year. Clifford only scores 0-1 from play yet Kerry win 2-18 to 0-12 with the team set up to be very tight in defence and forwards more cautious.

Kerry ran into traps from bad decisions. Those decisions came from panic, because they had an opponent breathing down their neck and gaining in confidence, an opponent who should have been long beaten out the gate but for wastefulness up front.
You're never going to control a game for 70 mins, that's life. We can interpret facts differently. Sure they conceded 3 goals. One was from a terrific 40 yard ball in, hit the only square foot in the field that was a danger to defense. Then brilliant awareness from the forward to flick a wonderful finish. Another goal was from a shite ball in going out for a wide. Back had a brain fart and hooked it back out to an unmarked forward. Can't remember the 3rd but a lot of the loss had to do with their own individual decisions and good play from opponent.

[AustinPowers]

I don't believe Kerry have really got over 2002, 2003 and 2005. Yes they've won numerous all Irelands since but I think them 3 years are dug into the Kerry physie. Remember the OTT reaction to beating a poor Tyrone team in a qualifier in Killarney a few years ago.

That drove a bug so far up their asses the level of begrudgery. Then the defeat in 2021: when Kerry beat Tyrone last year Tomás and Marc O'Shea both referred back to it with snide comments about long-Covid. #bitter

I think it harks  back to  Kerry's success, in the 50's and later in the 70's and 80's. Kerry  were always in the latter stages of  the All Ireland  (mostly due to the provincial setup) and they  really aren't used to losing that much

Paidi was right about his  animals line , Kerry folk demand all Irelands annually. But maybe they  don't know how to lose graciously as they've not had enough  practice  , unlike the  vast majority of counties

[square_ball]

I see Kieran Hughes from Monaghan had said the Armagh players will take a 2 point loss. Sums up monaghans attitude really

It's as bad a bit of analysis as I've ever heard. No wonder Monaghan didn't win any AI semi finals if that is in Kieran Hughes' thinking.

[Truthsayer]

I see Kieran Hughes from Monaghan had said the Armagh players will take a 2 point loss. Sums up monaghans attitude really

It's as bad a bit of analysis as I've ever heard. No wonder Monaghan didn't win any AI semi finals if that is in Kieran Hughes' thinking.

I'm sure he doesn't mean 'take' as in accept it/ be satisfied with it... probably means will take as be on the receiving end if it... ?

[square_ball]

I see Kieran Hughes from Monaghan had said the Armagh players will take a 2 point loss. Sums up monaghans attitude really

It's as bad a bit of analysis as I've ever heard. No wonder Monaghan didn't win any AI semi finals if that is in Kieran Hughes' thinking.

I'm sure he doesn't mean 'take' as in accept it/ be satisfied with it... probably means will take as be on the receiving end if it... ?

His exact words 'if you told an Armagh player they'd lose by 2 points at the weekend they'll take that with both hands I can assure you of that'. Even the presenter was shocked and Hughes doubled down on it. Just a very strange bit of analysis.

[Look-Up!]

I see Kieran Hughes from Monaghan had said the Armagh players will take a 2 point loss. Sums up monaghans attitude really

It's as bad a bit of analysis as I've ever heard. No wonder Monaghan didn't win any AI semi finals if that is in Kieran Hughes' thinking.

I'm sure he doesn't mean 'take' as in accept it/ be satisfied with it... probably means will take as be on the receiving end if it... ?

If they were a young team with 7 or 8 U21s from last couple of years, sure there is an argument there. But for this particular group, I think this is their defining moment. Can't see too many more bites at the cherry.