Down Club Hurling & Football

[thewobbler]

I'm really not sure why points are retained for what is in effect a separate competition. But apart from that gripe it makes for one very exciting season.

So you think that a team who finishes in 5th after the first round had 10 points should start the second round of fixtures with a team who has zero points Clubs have not thought this true properly and trust me there will be a lot of complaints about this format. When the league starts there will be a raft of Down seniors who are fringe players who will leave the panel if they are starred. Down senior team is always hampered by the senior leagues.  If you make the league final you will have played a team 4 times before the start of the championship. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Sometimes I wonder what sort of clowns vote for these things.

The problem here Truth is with perspective, and whether you believe it's one competition or multiple competitions. I believe it's the latter, except it's been infected by the former.

——

For over a decade after the starred system came into Down football, the leagues operated like this:

- 12 teams per division (with d4 usually smaller)

- Top 4 round robin playoffs for titles / promotion.

- Bottom 4 round robin playoffs for relegation.

And throughout this time, never once did anyone ever suggest, "maybe everyone should start the playoffs with their league points carried over". Do you know why? Because it would have been batshit mad to do so. They wouldn't have been playoffs. Half the games wouldn't even have been played due to foregone conclusions.

——

Personally, I believe that when we choose to split a season and create new leagues based on positions at a point in time, it is not a continuation of a competition. It's the creation of a new one.

This belief is compounded by the simple, inarguable fact that the principle of starred games only worked successfully in tandem with playoffs, as it meant that although clubs with heavy county commitments would likely suffer during the season, that they would at least have a full-squad opportunity to retain their league status.

We all know that long Down summer is unlikely this year. But the availability of players is going to be sore point for a few clubs.

[Truth hurts]

I'm really not sure why points are retained for what is in effect a separate competition. But apart from that gripe it makes for one very exciting season.

So you think that a team who finishes in 5th after the first round had 10 points should start the second round of fixtures with a team who has zero points Clubs have not thought this true properly and trust me there will be a lot of complaints about this format. When the league starts there will be a raft of Down seniors who are fringe players who will leave the panel if they are starred. Down senior team is always hampered by the senior leagues.  If you make the league final you will have played a team 4 times before the start of the championship. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Sometimes I wonder what sort of clowns vote for these things.

The problem here Truth is with perspective, and whether you believe it's one competition or multiple competitions. I believe it's the latter, except it's been infected by the former.

——

For over a decade after the starred system came into Down football, the leagues operated like this:

- 12 teams per division (with d4 usually smaller)

- Top 4 round robin playoffs for titles / promotion.

- Bottom 4 round robin playoffs for relegation.

And throughout this time, never once did anyone ever suggest, "maybe everyone should start the playoffs with their league points carried over". Do you know why? Because it would have been batshit mad to do so. They wouldn't have been playoffs. Half the games wouldn't even have been played due to foregone conclusions.

——

Personally, I believe that when we choose to split a season and create new leagues based on positions at a point in time, it is not a continuation of a competition. It's the creation of a new one.

This belief is compounded by the simple, inarguable fact that the principle of starred games only worked successfully in tandem with playoffs, as it meant that although clubs with heavy county commitments would likely suffer during the season, that they would at least have a full-squad opportunity to retain their league status.

We all know that long Down summer is unlikely this year. But the availability of players is going to be sore point for a few clubs.

I do get what you are saying and I fully agree that the availability of the players is going to be massive and will hurt a lot of clubs. Take Gilmore out of St Johns forward line for example, holy christ. Is it fair to penalize Clonduff for having 4 or 5 county players?
The correct thing was to play the full league,
They should have played a lot of Fridays and Mondays. The players love games and it would be better playing a Monday night game than to run around Castlewellan lake.
The fairest thing would have been a full league. This is not a fair system and I fear it could hamper our county squad.

[sdg]

I'm really not sure why points are retained for what is in effect a separate competition. But apart from that gripe it makes for one very exciting season.

So you think that a team who finishes in 5th after the first round had 10 points should start the second round of fixtures with a team who has zero points Clubs have not thought this true properly and trust me there will be a lot of complaints about this format. When the league starts there will be a raft of Down seniors who are fringe players who will leave the panel if they are starred. Down senior team is always hampered by the senior leagues.  If you make the league final you will have played a team 4 times before the start of the championship. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Sometimes I wonder what sort of clowns vote for these things.

The problem here Truth is with perspective, and whether you believe it's one competition or multiple competitions. I believe it's the latter, except it's been infected by the former.

——

For over a decade after the starred system came into Down football, the leagues operated like this:

- 12 teams per division (with d4 usually smaller)

- Top 4 round robin playoffs for titles / promotion.

- Bottom 4 round robin playoffs for relegation.

And throughout this time, never once did anyone ever suggest, "maybe everyone should start the playoffs with their league points carried over". Do you know why? Because it would have been batshit mad to do so. They wouldn't have been playoffs. Half the games wouldn't even have been played due to foregone conclusions.

——

Personally, I believe that when we choose to split a season and create new leagues based on positions at a point in time, it is not a continuation of a competition. It's the creation of a new one.

This belief is compounded by the simple, inarguable fact that the principle of starred games only worked successfully in tandem with playoffs, as it meant that although clubs with heavy county commitments would likely suffer during the season, that they would at least have a full-squad opportunity to retain their league status.

We all know that long Down summer is unlikely this year. But the availability of players is going to be sore point for a few clubs.

I do get what you are saying and I fully agree that the availability of the players is going to be massive and will hurt a lot of clubs. Take Gilmore out of St Johns forward line for example, holy christ. Is it fair to penalize Clonduff for having 4 or 5 county players?
The correct thing was to play the full league,
They should have played a lot of Fridays and Mondays. The players love games and it would be better playing a Monday night game than to run around Castlewellan lake.
The fairest thing would have been a full league. This is not a fair system and I fear it could hamper our county squad.

How many starred games is there ?

[Truth hurts]

I believe there are definitely 5 starred games before the county players are back but if we get out a good run then there will be more. If Down beat Ulster it could be 7 and if they reach an Ulster final it's 9. The Taitleann cup final is early July as well and I hope we are not in that but again it could cause complications.
Was this unanimously for lat night? Do clubs not see how this will affect them or am I going mad? Was anyone here at the meeting?

[Johnnysboys]

My god - you all had a club rep at the meeting when this was voted for. Obviously the majority of the vote wins lads - it's an age old tradition. Instead of coming up with problems this system has - how about giving some solutions we can use going forward... We can't play the full league - that is very evident - so that's not a solution. In theory playing a game every Friday and some Friday/Monday fixtures would be fantastic. But what about the traditional reasons for getting matches off - stag parties, weddings, funerals of club legends, hurling etc etc - where do we squeeze these games in?? THERE ARE NO WEEKENDS FREE!! The complainers at various clubs will complain no matter what - but don't jump on a bandwagon just for the sake of it. Make sure ur club is not on the wrong side of the league split by putting in the necessary work on the training pitch and keeping points or having no points won't have any impact on ya.

[thewobbler]

My god - you all had a club rep at the meeting when this was voted for. Obviously the majority of the vote wins lads - it's an age old tradition. Instead of coming up with problems this system has - how about giving some solutions we can use going forward... We can't play the full league - that is very evident - so that's not a solution. In theory playing a game every Friday and some Friday/Monday fixtures would be fantastic. But what about the traditional reasons for getting matches off - stag parties, weddings, funerals of club legends, hurling etc etc - where do we squeeze these games in?? THERE ARE NO WEEKENDS FREE!! The complainers at various clubs will complain no matter what - but don't jump on a bandwagon just for the sake of it. Make sure ur club is not on the wrong side of the league split by putting in the necessary work on the training pitch and keeping points or having no points won't have any impact on ya.

I'm actually not complaining about the system. It's a seismic improvement on the mooted 16 team D1.

I just find it strange that points are carried across from a qualifying competition to a final competition. Does this happen in any other sport / league you can think of?

[Mike Tyson]

My god - you all had a club rep at the meeting when this was voted for. Obviously the majority of the vote wins lads - it's an age old tradition. Instead of coming up with problems this system has - how about giving some solutions we can use going forward... We can't play the full league - that is very evident - so that's not a solution. In theory playing a game every Friday and some Friday/Monday fixtures would be fantastic. But what about the traditional reasons for getting matches off - stag parties, weddings, funerals of club legends, hurling etc etc - where do we squeeze these games in?? THERE ARE NO WEEKENDS FREE!! The complainers at various clubs will complain no matter what - but don't jump on a bandwagon just for the sake of it. Make sure ur club is not on the wrong side of the league split by putting in the necessary work on the training pitch and keeping points or having no points won't have any impact on ya.

I'm actually not complaining about the system. It's a seismic improvement on the mooted 16 team D1.

I just find it strange that points are carried across from a qualifying competition to a final competition. Does this happen in any other sport / league you can think of?

SPL split not work like that?

[OgraAnDun]

My god - you all had a club rep at the meeting when this was voted for. Obviously the majority of the vote wins lads - it's an age old tradition. Instead of coming up with problems this system has - how about giving some solutions we can use going forward... We can't play the full league - that is very evident - so that's not a solution. In theory playing a game every Friday and some Friday/Monday fixtures would be fantastic. But what about the traditional reasons for getting matches off - stag parties, weddings, funerals of club legends, hurling etc etc - where do we squeeze these games in?? THERE ARE NO WEEKENDS FREE!! The complainers at various clubs will complain no matter what - but don't jump on a bandwagon just for the sake of it. Make sure ur club is not on the wrong side of the league split by putting in the necessary work on the training pitch and keeping points or having no points won't have any impact on ya.

I'm actually not complaining about the system. It's a seismic improvement on the mooted 16 team D1.

I just find it strange that points are carried across from a qualifying competition to a final competition. Does this happen in any other sport / league you can think of?

SPL split not work like that?

I think the same happens for soccer in the north.

[manwithnoplan]

My god - you all had a club rep at the meeting when this was voted for. Obviously the majority of the vote wins lads - it's an age old tradition. Instead of coming up with problems this system has - how about giving some solutions we can use going forward... We can't play the full league - that is very evident - so that's not a solution. In theory playing a game every Friday and some Friday/Monday fixtures would be fantastic. But what about the traditional reasons for getting matches off - stag parties, weddings, funerals of club legends, hurling etc etc - where do we squeeze these games in?? THERE ARE NO WEEKENDS FREE!! The complainers at various clubs will complain no matter what - but don't jump on a bandwagon just for the sake of it. Make sure ur club is not on the wrong side of the league split by putting in the necessary work on the training pitch and keeping points or having no points won't have any impact on ya.

I'm actually not complaining about the system. It's a seismic improvement on the mooted 16 team D1.

I just find it strange that points are carried across from a qualifying competition to a final competition. Does this happen in any other sport / league you can think of?

It might not be perfect, and I don't believe there needed to be such a rush to balance the numbers in each division for next year, but carrying the points over makes sense in that if a team in the lower end had a good win against a top team in the initial stages, they get to keep the reward from that (2 points) when they are entering what is effectively relegation playoffs. It would be unfair to have what may be the best result in the team's season not rewarded at the end of it all. It could be what keeps them up.

Again I point to Div 3, with 5 down from 8. Imagine you finish fourth in that group by 1 point, and end up in division 4, having had a win against Shamrocks or Drumgath prior to that.

[Truth hurts]

There will be a lot of complaints about this after the first few games mark my words. It was pushed through by the county board to stop them from getting hassle.

[thewobbler]

So IFA and SFL both use this system?

Does it work well? Obviously it's not very good at making the top half of the Scottish league any more competitive.... But is it well received in terms of relegation battles?

[Truth hurts]

So IFA and SFL both use this system?

Does it work well? Obviously it's not very good at making the top half of the Scottish league any more competitive.... But is it well received in terms of relegation battles?

There would be too many dead rubbers?

[manwithnoplan]

There will be a lot of complaints about this after the first few games mark my words. It was pushed through by the county board to stop them from getting hassle.

After the first few games, when a bad performance and a defeat has someone in danger of not being at the top end of the table. They would have to complain openly now if they wanted to avoid looking like they are throwing the toys out of the pram if things aren't going their way.

[SamFever]

Div 2 is fine.Stop the gurnin! As someone said -you all have County delegates.Did any of you speak to any of them before last night's vote?

[6th sam]

There's never going to be a perfect system that everyone is happy with TH but I don't think it is accurate to say county board pushed things through. They asked for solutions from the clubs weeks ago and again last week . I don't think they could have left a decision any later than last night, as we are only 8 weeks off league start and they have to get a calendar out to allow players , coaches and clubs to plan. If there was a better solution taking all the relevant factors into account Ccc would have welcomed it, and indeed their proposal took on board clubs' concerns. There are several factors which should influence decisions on league structures and tbf it's CCC's job to take these into account .   Like every county board , Our county board is subject to a lot of criticism , but you only have to speak to gaels from outside of Down, to hear how well regarded our club structures are nationally . Our county champions are playing in All ireland final again on Thursday , and they have had several of their most competitive games in Down. Surely those  that have given us the club structures that produced this level of club competitiveness must be given some credit.