religious education in schools..

[The Iceman]

Ulick is on the money here. And Bishop McKeown (one of the good ones) from what I understand is challenging the "integration" of education for profiteering. Take for example the proposed merging of the secondary schools in Armagh, is that not a fictional "merging" for money? Fill out the forms, check the boxes and get a few million from some fund or other....
You don't have to be religious to attend Catholic or Protestant schools. If you want your child to go to a school where they can compete at a high level in Gaelic games and be surrounded in an Irish culture then surely an integrated school is not the answer?
I wonder what the standard of football would be in clubs/parishes where only integrated schools existed? Maybe schools don't play a huge part but from what I remember getting football at a competitive level at school made all the difference.....

[muppet]

We need to have Catholic school to maintain the standard of Gaelic Football?

I've heard it all now.

We should have sufficient Catholic schools to meet the genuine demand that is obviously there for them. But no more than that. Political reasoning shouldn't come into it and as for Gaa. Jebus.

[Eamonnca1]

Have to say that I think it's partially because of the phasing out ot RE; or less significance given to it, that social norms and value have taken a mighty kick in the gonads. I'm a basic non believer, not hater, but I do think RE helps to further enforce certain aspects of decency and respect which is increasingly lacking in many our our yonger generation

Have they? 

Racism and homophobia are no longer acceptable attitudes. Political corruption was once considered a fact of life but nowadays is subject to one tribunal after another and the public is sick of it. Smoking indoors around non smokers was once considered acceptable but not anymore. People didn't used to pass any remarks about animal cruelty but nowadays people are horrified by it. There's more respect for the rules of the road than there used to be.

Seems to me like social norms and values have improved.

[The Iceman]

We need to have Catholic school to maintain the standard of Gaelic Football?

I've heard it all now.

We should have sufficient Catholic schools to meet the genuine demand that is obviously there for them. But no more than that. Political reasoning shouldn't come into it and as for Gaa. Jebus.

Sorry for bringing GAA into the discussion on a GAA board. I was agreeing with Ulick that the schools can be and are used by many non believers to expose their kids to Irish ethos and culture. Following on form that, seeing as GAA is a part of Irish culture, my point is that integrated schools will not and have not produced too many GAA standouts.
Unless you live in a town with a big club like Cross who have a fantastic underage system and compete at the top level then you aren't getting top competition. Schools are how this has been addressed in the past. Kids go to schools known for football and get exposed to higher levels of competition, better coaching and better football. In my final year in secondary school we had 7 or 8 Future  All Ireland winners on our McRory team. Can't see that happening at the integrated level.....

[muppet]

We need to have Catholic school to maintain the standard of Gaelic Football?

I've heard it all now.

We should have sufficient Catholic schools to meet the genuine demand that is obviously there for them. But no more than that. Political reasoning shouldn't come into it and as for Gaa. Jebus.

Sorry for bringing GAA into the discussion on a GAA board. I was agreeing with Ulick that the schools can be and are used by many non believers to expose their kids to Irish ethos and culture. Following on form that, seeing as GAA is a part of Irish culture, my point is that integrated schools will not and have not produced too many GAA standouts.
Unless you live in a town with a big club like Cross who have a fantastic underage system and compete at the top level then you aren't getting top competition. Schools are how this has been addressed in the past. Kids go to schools known for football and get exposed to higher levels of competition, better coaching and better football. In my final year in secondary school we had 7 or 8 Future  All Ireland winners on our McRory team. Can't see that happening at the integrated level.....

You think mentioning Gaa on a GaaBoard is a winning argument. It isn't. This is a thread on religion in schools. There are many political, demographic and cultural issues. If you think your schools should be bastions of your culture then you de facto accept that other schools should be bastions of unionism and loyalism. I'd rather not promote the differences any more than we have to.

And Gaelic Games are alive and kicking, despite our love of predicting their demise.

[The Iceman]

This is just another soapbox Muppet, call it what it is. Like every other thread started and finished by you and your brigade. This is an all out rant on Donal McKeown and the Catholic Church. More axe grinding.....

Integrated education isn't just about religion as McKeown pointed out. It's political, its cultural. If you go after one in today's Ireland, I'm afraid you lose them all.
If Irish culture doesn't matter to you in school then good luck to you and your kids. I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games.

[muppet]

This is just another soapbox Muppet, call it what it is. Like every other thread started and finished by you and your brigade. This is an all out rant on Donal McKeown and the Catholic Church. More axe grinding.....

Integrated education isn't just about religion as McKeown pointed out. It's political, its cultural. If you go after one in today's Ireland, I'm afraid you lose them all.
If Irish culture doesn't matter to you in school then good luck to you and your kids. I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games.

"I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games."

Here is where your mock-devoted pious facade crumbles. You assume because you blindly defend the Church that you are a better parent, that you can teach more about Irish history, Irish music, Irish language and gaelic Games than I can. And this without knowing anything about me. Your arrogance can't hide your hypocrisy.

[The Iceman]

This is just another soapbox Muppet, call it what it is. Like every other thread started and finished by you and your brigade. This is an all out rant on Donal McKeown and the Catholic Church. More axe grinding.....

Integrated education isn't just about religion as McKeown pointed out. It's political, its cultural. If you go after one in today's Ireland, I'm afraid you lose them all.
If Irish culture doesn't matter to you in school then good luck to you and your kids. I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games.

"I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games."

Here is where your mock-devoted pious facade crumbles. You assume because you blindly defend the Church that you are a better parent, that you can teach more about Irish history, Irish music, Irish language and gaelic Games than I can. And this without knowing anything about me. Your arrogance can't hide your hypocrisy.

No, you read that completely wrong, in fact the opposite of what I intended. I don't assume any of that. You might be a wonderful parent, who knows. You might be able to teach your kids all these things.
As for me I can't teach my kids about Irish history, Culture, Language or Gaelic games anywhere close to the level they would receive in a Catholic School. Pushing integrated education takes these things away from my children and others who aren't as gifted as you might be.

[muppet]

This is just another soapbox Muppet, call it what it is. Like every other thread started and finished by you and your brigade. This is an all out rant on Donal McKeown and the Catholic Church. More axe grinding.....

Integrated education isn't just about religion as McKeown pointed out. It's political, its cultural. If you go after one in today's Ireland, I'm afraid you lose them all.
If Irish culture doesn't matter to you in school then good luck to you and your kids. I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games.

"I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games."

Here is where your mock-devoted pious facade crumbles. You assume because you blindly defend the Church that you are a better parent, that you can teach more about Irish history, Irish music, Irish language and gaelic Games than I can. And this without knowing anything about me. Your arrogance can't hide your hypocrisy.

No, you read that completely wrong, in fact the opposite of what I intended. I don't assume any of that. You might be a wonderful parent, who knows. You might be able to teach your kids all these things.
As for me I can't teach my kids about Irish history, Culture, Language or Gaelic games anywhere close to the level they would receive in a Catholic School. Pushing integrated education takes these things away from my children and others who aren't as gifted as you might be.

Am I supposed to believe that your short post, which started as a lecture, then moved to suggesting culture didn't matter to me before finally saying I was brilliant at teaching my children something which didn't matter to me?

[lawnseed]

This is just another soapbox Muppet, call it what it is. Like every other thread started and finished by you and your brigade. This is an all out rant on Donal McKeown and the Catholic Church. More axe grinding.....

Integrated education isn't just about religion as McKeown pointed out. It's political, its cultural. If you go after one in today's Ireland, I'm afraid you lose them all.
If Irish culture doesn't matter to you in school then good luck to you and your kids. I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games.

what? i started this thread, i dont do soapbox. i'm not in muppets brigade!!! the facts are we have an unelected rep of the catholic church playing politics. a guys who's faith enjoys a very privilaged position in irish society whereby the state funds and nurtures thier religion. hes slagging off the the two main parties in the six counties because he see his privilages coming under scrutiny. this comes on the back of berties promise to make the hard pressed irish taxpayer pay the compo to the victoms of religious paedos.. paying the victoms of one of the wealthiest institutions on the planet??!! i think mr mckeown should count his blessings since it is he who benefits the most from sectarian hatred/differences and he who wants to highlight the "difference" in christian churches when they are basically just like soccer teams playing the same game. one started by tyrant roman emperor (augustus) and another started by a horny old english king (henry)

[The Iceman]

This is just another soapbox Muppet, call it what it is. Like every other thread started and finished by you and your brigade. This is an all out rant on Donal McKeown and the Catholic Church. More axe grinding.....

Integrated education isn't just about religion as McKeown pointed out. It's political, its cultural. If you go after one in today's Ireland, I'm afraid you lose them all.
If Irish culture doesn't matter to you in school then good luck to you and your kids. I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games.

"I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games."

Here is where your mock-devoted pious facade crumbles. You assume because you blindly defend the Church that you are a better parent, that you can teach more about Irish history, Irish music, Irish language and gaelic Games than I can. And this without knowing anything about me. Your arrogance can't hide your hypocrisy.

No, you read that completely wrong, in fact the opposite of what I intended. I don't assume any of that. You might be a wonderful parent, who knows. You might be able to teach your kids all these things.
As for me I can't teach my kids about Irish history, Culture, Language or Gaelic games anywhere close to the level they would receive in a Catholic School. Pushing integrated education takes these things away from my children and others who aren't as gifted as you might be.

Am I supposed to believe that your short post, which started as a lecture, then moved to suggesting culture didn't matter to me before finally saying I was brilliant at teaching my children something which didn't matter to me?

I'm asking if you are (if you cared about it)? Because if you are (and you did care about it) then culture wouldn't matter in schools to someone like you - but what about everyone else?
I understand you don't care for religion, now you don't care for Irish culture.
Religion aside, many people here do care about Irish Culture - its the source of this discussion board. For me the GAA goes hand in hand with Irish Culture.

I would imagine that you are in a small minority who have no room in education for the preservation and promotion of Irish culture.
So basically

[The Iceman]

This is just another soapbox Muppet, call it what it is. Like every other thread started and finished by you and your brigade. This is an all out rant on Donal McKeown and the Catholic Church. More axe grinding.....

Integrated education isn't just about religion as McKeown pointed out. It's political, its cultural. If you go after one in today's Ireland, I'm afraid you lose them all.
If Irish culture doesn't matter to you in school then good luck to you and your kids. I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games.

what? i started this thread, i dont do soapbox. i'm not in muppets brigade!!! the facts are we have an unelected rep of the catholic church playing politics. a guys who's faith enjoys a very privilaged position in irish society whereby the state funds and nurtures thier religion. hes slagging off the the two main parties in the six counties because he see his privilages coming under scrutiny. this comes on the back of berties promise to make the hard pressed irish taxpayer pay the compo to the victoms of religious paedos.. paying the victoms of one of the wealthiest institutions on the planet??!! i think mr mckeown should count his blessings since it is he who benefits the most from sectarian hatred/differences and he who wants to highlight the "difference" in christian churches when they are basically just like soccer teams playing the same game. one started by tyrant roman emperor (augustus) and another started by a horny old english king (henry)

I think you're doing a great soapbox....
The state does not Nurture the Roman Catholic Church - tell us how the State cares for and encourages the development of the faith / Church?
How do you know Bishop McKeown is concerned with these "privileges"? (which you have yet to define or explain).
How do you know he is not concerned with the preservation of the faith, concerned that if left to parents that kids will not receive any education of or introduction to God?
Please tell us how Bishop McKeown benefits most from sectarianism?

[lawnseed]

This is just another soapbox Muppet, call it what it is. Like every other thread started and finished by you and your brigade. This is an all out rant on Donal McKeown and the Catholic Church. More axe grinding.....

Integrated education isn't just about religion as McKeown pointed out. It's political, its cultural. If you go after one in today's Ireland, I'm afraid you lose them all.
If Irish culture doesn't matter to you in school then good luck to you and your kids. I'm sure you are a very engaged parent who spends countless hours educating your children on Irish History, Music, Language and Gaelic Games.

what? i started this thread, i dont do soapbox. i'm not in muppets brigade!!! the facts are we have an unelected rep of the catholic church playing politics. a guys who's faith enjoys a very privilaged position in irish society whereby the state funds and nurtures thier religion. hes slagging off the the two main parties in the six counties because he see his privilages coming under scrutiny. this comes on the back of berties promise to make the hard pressed irish taxpayer pay the compo to the victoms of religious paedos.. paying the victoms of one of the wealthiest institutions on the planet??!! i think mr mckeown should count his blessings since it is he who benefits the most from sectarian hatred/differences and he who wants to highlight the "difference" in christian churches when they are basically just like soccer teams playing the same game. one started by tyrant roman emperor (augustus) and another started by a horny old english king (henry)

I think you're doing a great soapbox....
The state does not Nurture the Roman Catholic Church - tell us how the State cares for and encourages the development of the faith / Church?
How do you know Bishop McKeown is concerned with these "privileges"? (which you have yet to define or explain).
How do you know he is not concerned with the preservation of the faith, concerned that if left to parents that kids will not receive any education of or introduction to God?

Please tell us how Bishop McKeown benefits most from sectarianism?

the state does not nurture the roman catholic church?? the taxpayer provides them with buildings,teachers etc to teach their faith. were i a couch hopping scientoligist i'd be asking why not my religion as well?
the provision of these facilities to the catholic faith and not other religions IS a privilege.
he is concerned with the preservation of HIS faith through the status quo.
bishop mckeown benefits from sectarianism?? heres how.. i know a man who moved to london in the sixties a country gent he found a church near his work. he attended "mass" there for nearly 3mths before someone told him he was infact going to a church of england. thats how mr mckeown benefits from sectarianism that type of sceneario could never happen here suchn is the level of heightened sectarianism. mr mc keowns position is helped by the perceived treat to the existance of his faith by the other christian faiths.
as for an introduction to god.. as a child i was told that 'god is everywhere...' 'even in your schoolbag' if this is infact the case why should anyone go looking for him? mr mc keowns only concern is that his dwindling congregation will dissappear completely.. since catholic schools are his main and mostly his only way of maintaining his numbers any talk of more intergration by peter robinson makes him a threat and someone to attack. i agree with robbo. if this place is to move on our children need to meet and grow up together as schoolmates.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Catholicisim is not Irish culture.

[Eamonnca1]

Catholicisim is not Irish culture.

Thanks be to God. 

In this day and age it's impossible to justify the state subsidizing an education system that's designed to crank out the next generation of indoctrinated sheep who will grow up to carry on dropping money in the basket in the chapel every weekend. The sooner this subsidy stops the better.