Mayo V Kerry- 8/4/12

[Sam2011]

Was suprised with the amount of changes James has made. He might have done it to throw Jack a bit as I think everyone was expecting the same team again. It seems that Reilly and Dillon were late inclusions going by the numbers they'll be wearing. Also Freeman is not named in the panel at all, is he injured or dropped?
Not to sure about Reilly, wasn't to impressed with him in the abandoned Dublin game but hes worth another shot.
Think Gibbons deserves his chance in midfield as everyone else has got a go.
James seemed to have coped on to our lack of goal scoring threat but not sure if Doherty is a full forward. Not tall enough for a target man, prefer to see him on one of the corners.
Glad to see O'Connor get another run to see if he can get back to himself again although Mort might feel hard done by.

[moysider]

Does anyone want to make the semi finals?? I see the dubs have picked a complete joke team and now Mayo are given lads who have seen little action do far a start.

No-one wants to make the semi-finals Zulu. No-one ever wants to make the semi-finals. All anyone wants to do is not get relegated, or get promoted if you're not in D1.

Páidí Ó Sé was on the Seo Spoirt on TG4 tonight talking about how it took their final League game of 2000 for Kerry to realise that they had to play Moynihan at fullback. That's what the League is for - seeing how fellas get on in different formations before they have to face the live ammo of the Championship.

I agree with you about the league Iolar and I m sure Paudí was still making a case for the Pony at 3. But I don t agree with everything that comes out of the great man's mouth.  Of course Moynihan was an excellent fb but Paudi never needed to play him there. Yet one of the best things I saw in Croke Park was Moynihan discovering an extra leg to cut out a high ball that was goin to land in Padraig Joyce s lap behind. Genius. But it was a waste in the bigger picture. Paudi would have won more AIs if he went with Michael McCarty or a young Tommy Griffin at 3 and play Moynihan at 5 or 6 where he would kill  teams. Y know I think Moynihan and Dara played midfield v Mayo in 96. He could play anywhere. I think he has an unbelievable score from a colleges game back in the day. There was no need to panic and play him full back - just because he could.

Jack O Connor knew the value of McCarty and Griffin ( 2 of the top fullbacks in last 20 years) and also knew the best place for Moynihan was where he could take the game on. Paudi put Maurice Fitzgerald out to grass too early too. Great player Paudi but I wonder if he s into a bit of revisionism and regrets about his legacy?

[moysider]

Was suprised with the amount of changes James has made. He might have done it to throw Jack a bit as I think everyone was expecting the same team again. It seems that Reilly and Dillon were late inclusions going by the numbers they'll be wearing. Also Freeman is not named in the panel at all, is he injured or dropped?
Not to sure about Reilly, wasn't to impressed with him in the abandoned Dublin game but hes worth another shot.
Think Gibbons deserves his chance in midfield as everyone else has got a go.
James seemed to have coped on to our lack of goal scoring threat but not sure if Doherty is a full forward. Not tall enough for a target man, prefer to see him on one of the corners.
Glad to see O'Connor get another run to see if he can get back to himself again although Mort might feel hard done by.

With respect Sam Jack O Connor would n t give a shite what we put out. He s in the semi s and is checking out young fellas while the heavy artilleryare bristling on the bench. He knows most of his preferred 15 already  for Summer- so do you and I. Most have multiple AI medals.

There is bound to be a few Mayo lads carrying injuries so wouldn t read too much into it. But if Keane and McHale are fit they should start again. It s one thing for other counties to be experimenting but we re dropping lads that were doing well for others that have got time and struggle every time.

[galwayman]

Nothing wrong with trying lads out I suppose but I would have thought in the backs especially ye would be looking to get it as settled as possible.
I thought Keane at number 2 was immense against the Dubs.surprised he hasn't been retained unless he has a knock.

[Cosmo Kramer]

I think James was damned either way with this one. Pick the same 15 and then some lads like Gibbons don't get a chance to play all league, mess about the starting 15 and get accused of chopping and changing all the time. I find Horan's approach to selections refreshing, especially compared to O'Mahony, he is not afraid to try stuff out. This is the first game where we're not fighting to stay in the division.

There is also an argument in favour of picking Dillon, Andy and Aidan O'Shea every week - we know these lads are nailed on for summer and it's fairer to try out the others alongside known starters so they can be judged in relation to players they would be playing with in the summer if picked.

One thing I would like to have seen though is someone else, maybe Higgins, at 6 because I don't know who we turn to if anything happens to Vaughan.

[western exile]

I am surprised at the dramatic reaction to the team selection.  There is really only one surprise to me, and that is the inclusion of Eoghan O'Reilly instead of either Keane or McHale.
Cafferkey was always going to return to fullback.  It was always going to be either Gibbons or Geraghty to partner AOS in midfield.  And Barry Moran has had many opportunities to impress and has failed to take them and cannot be surprised at being replaced by one of the many forwards legitimately claiming a starting place.
So although Keane and McHale might be disappointed that both are not starting, Mayo have the best defence in division One without playing the same six in every game. So a bit of calm and belief is required.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Does anyone want to make the semi finals?? I see the dubs have picked a complete joke team and now Mayo are given lads who have seen little action do far a start.

No-one wants to make the semi-finals Zulu. No-one ever wants to make the semi-finals. All anyone wants to do is not get relegated, or get promoted if you're not in D1.

Páidí Ó Sé was on the Seo Spoirt on TG4 tonight talking about how it took their final League game of 2000 for Kerry to realise that they had to play Moynihan at fullback. That's what the League is for - seeing how fellas get on in different formations before they have to face the live ammo of the Championship.

I agree with you about the league Iolar and I m sure Paudí was still making a case for the Pony at 3. But I don t agree with everything that comes out of the great man's mouth.  Of course Moynihan was an excellent fb but Paudi never needed to play him there. Yet one of the best things I saw in Croke Park was Moynihan discovering an extra leg to cut out a high ball that was goin to land in Padraig Joyce s lap behind. Genius. But it was a waste in the bigger picture. Paudi would have won more AIs if he went with Michael McCarty or a young Tommy Griffin at 3 and play Moynihan at 5 or 6 where he would kill  teams. Y know I think Moynihan and Dara played midfield v Mayo in 96. He could play anywhere. I think he has an unbelievable score from a colleges game back in the day. There was no need to panic and play him full back - just because he could.

Jack O Connor knew the value of McCarty and Griffin ( 2 of the top fullbacks in last 20 years) and also knew the best place for Moynihan was where he could take the game on. Paudi put Maurice Fitzgerald out to grass too early too. Great player Paudi but I wonder if he s into a bit of revisionism and regrets about his legacy?

That's all fair enough Moysider. I'm only quoting Páidí to make the point that looking at players in different positions is more important than winning in the League, and that makes the League unique as a competition.

Páidí is all the time spinning, of course, but I doubt he regrets a damn thing, to be honest. Doubt isn't in a nature. Outstanding player obviously - he was midfield with Jacko in that 1977 game, wasn't he? - but I think he did ok as a manager.

People talk about Moynihan and Muiris Mac Gearailt alright and they should have won more but when you think about where they had been for the ten years before Páidí took the reins - I'd cut him some slack.

People think they have a right to a tradition. They don't. Traditions can die, and by the time people notice they're in trouble it's too late and it's the long, slow decline. Cavan is the most obvious example of all. Páidí stopped that happening in Kerry. People think that Kerry's return was inevitable, because Kerry are Kerry. I'm not so sure. I don't believe in divine rights. The backdoor has helped them enormously since - who knows what would have happened Ógie's or Mickey Ned's teams if they got a second bite? - but I'd give Páidí credit as a manager of Kerry. Not one of their all-time great managers sure, but he did his bit in passing the torch.

[muppet]

I wonder is this simply a rotation exercise based probably on a decision taken a few weeks ago?

Because of the abandoned game we ended up playing a lot of weekends in a row. We have players like Mort and Andy who are coming back from serious injury who need to be minded. Then we have lads who will have picked up knocks over the last few weeks and we have lads who are in the last chance saloon and rather than showing them the door he is giving them the chance to play themselves on or off the squad.

Mathematically we can still be relegated and if that happens this strategy will appear foolish. Otherwise it will have been a successful league if you consider the credible additions from last year: Conroy, Keane, McHale & Boyle while Aiden O'Sé appears to have kicked on, Barry Moran is a real possibility at midfield and Lee Keegan looks like a quality half back.

No need for doom and gloom but don't be getting too excited. Keep the Donegal game in the back of the mind all year (as the Dubs will keep Castlebar in the back of their minds).

[moysider]

Personally I have no wish to see Mayo win the league. The last time didn t do us much good and the we could do without any little fuss it would cause.

I doubt JH has any interest in the league either and the Dublin win was mission accomplished tbh. Another decent performance against Kerry and the whole campaign could be stored away nicely. A few new players found and a few valuable lessons learded, particularly in Ballyshannon.

While my instinct would be to try and get the points v Kerry (hence my misgivings about this selection) and have a go at a semi, in the cold light of day I can see how it would be more expedient to bow out now. Not that we won t try to win tomorrow, it s just that it looks like we wont be too pushed if we dont.

With our championship so far away and the league having such poor credibility anymore it could be more damaging to lose a semi final or final to a team still emerging. Winning or losing wouldn t mean much to likes of Dublin, Kerry or Cork on the other hand.

[Zulu]

I don't understand that thinking tbh. It's the same as saying "we've survived boys now lets pull the blanket over our heads and hope when the sun comes back out" we'll be alright. You're right, Kerry, Cork and Dublin don't need the league because they've won All Irelands (after good league campaigns) but Mayo haven't. Why not go out and win tomorrow and see where it takes you especially with such a long break to championship. After the Donegal game many were saying this fella or that fella weren't up to it, now after a win against Dublin there are nailed on starters left, right and centre? I'm not saying a bit of of experimentation isn't still needed, like Gibbons at midfield, since there is no outstanding midfield partner for O'Se but why not introduce either Cillian or Doherty to start and not both? You can always make further changes as the game progresses and if you win have, at least, another 70 minutes against good opposition to judge lads again.

The difference for me is most football fans could now name the Dublin, Cork and Kerry teams that would line out in this years All Ireland final, should they get there, and be pretty accurate, barring unforeseen injuries. I'd doubt too many Mayo fans could pick their All Ireland team with the same confidence. So I think Mayo are risking losing a good opportunity here.

[Cosmo Kramer]

I think the experience of the 2010 league final where a promising looking season was undone in one afternoon and the confidence going into the championship was shattered before we kicked a ball is a factor here for supporters. Of course we wouldn't have challenged in 2010 anyway - the management setup was awful, but the negative side of the league knockout stages is still fresh in people's minds and makes us wary of putting ourselves out there too early in the year this time around.

Personally I think we should go for it. We have a youngish team who need all the experience they can get and it's a long time until the Connacht semi final. A trimming against Derry didn't do us any harm in 96 and winning the league wasn't the cause of our problems in 2001.

Of course we may have no choice in the end anyway - we could lose and still make the semis.

[Farrandeelin]

I don't understand that thinking tbh. It's the same as saying "we've survived boys now lets pull the blanket over our heads and hope when the sun comes back out" we'll be alright. You're right, Kerry, Cork and Dublin don't need the league because they've won All Irelands (after good league campaigns) but Mayo haven't. Why not go out and win tomorrow and see where it takes you especially with such a long break to championship. After the Donegal game many were saying this fella or that fella weren't up to it, now after a win against Dublin there are nailed on starters left, right and centre? I'm not saying a bit of of experimentation isn't still needed, like Gibbons at midfield, since there is no outstanding midfield partner for O'Se but why not introduce either Cillian or Doherty to start and not both? You can always make further changes as the game progresses and if you win have, at least, another 70 minutes against good opposition to judge lads again.

The difference for me is most football fans could now name the Dublin, Cork and Kerry teams that would line out in this years All Ireland final, should they get there, and be pretty accurate, barring unforeseen injuries. I'd doubt too many Mayo fans could pick their All Ireland team with the same confidence. So I think Mayo are risking losing a good opportunity here.

They would be my own beliefs down to a tee. It hasn't done Brian Cody or Kilkenny hurling any harm either, win all before and behind you. I'm sure the players who are starting won't want to go out and lose either. It's the last chance saloon as far as Reilly is concerned, have another nightmare and he's out of contention imo. I can't see the same scenario panning out this year with the regards to 2010. I couldn't see JH letting that happen. So let's try to win this game tomorrow lads. If we qualify it will be an extra game before heading into the championship as well.

[muppet]

I don't understand that thinking tbh. It's the same as saying "we've survived boys now lets pull the blanket over our heads and hope when the sun comes back out" we'll be alright. You're right, Kerry, Cork and Dublin don't need the league because they've won All Irelands (after good league campaigns) but Mayo haven't. Why not go out and win tomorrow and see where it takes you especially with such a long break to championship. After the Donegal game many were saying this fella or that fella weren't up to it, now after a win against Dublin there are nailed on starters left, right and centre? I'm not saying a bit of of experimentation isn't still needed, like Gibbons at midfield, since there is no outstanding midfield partner for O'Se but why not introduce either Cillian or Doherty to start and not both? You can always make further changes as the game progresses and if you win have, at least, another 70 minutes against good opposition to judge lads again.

The difference for me is most football fans could now name the Dublin, Cork and Kerry teams that would line out in this years All Ireland final, should they get there, and be pretty accurate, barring unforeseen injuries. I'd doubt too many Mayo fans could pick their All Ireland team with the same confidence. So I think Mayo are risking losing a good opportunity here.

They would be my own beliefs down to a tee. It hasn't done Brian Cody or Kilkenny hurling any harm either, win all before and behind you. I'm sure the players who are starting won't want to go out and lose either. It's the last chance saloon as far as Reilly is concerned, have another nightmare and he's out of contention imo. I can't see the same scenario panning out this year with the regards to 2010. I couldn't see JH letting that happen. So let's try to win this game tomorrow lads. If we qualify it will be an extra game before heading into the championship as well.

We have damaged lots of players in recent years playing them at full back when they are not even club full backs. Reilly played full back against the All-Ireland champions and certainly was struggling but to be fair to him he has a shot now at 2, in a proper full back line. I would agree with those who thins Keane should be given every available minute as I think he is a great long term prospect and I have been a fan since he was a minor.

[moysider]

I don't understand that thinking tbh. It's the same as saying "we've survived boys now lets pull the blanket over our heads and hope when the sun comes back out" we'll be alright. You're right, Kerry, Cork and Dublin don't need the league because they've won All Irelands (after good league campaigns) but Mayo haven't. Why not go out and win tomorrow and see where it takes you especially with such a long break to championship. After the Donegal game many were saying this fella or that fella weren't up to it, now after a win against Dublin there are nailed on starters left, right and centre? I'm not saying a bit of of experimentation isn't still needed, like Gibbons at midfield, since there is no outstanding midfield partner for O'Se but why not introduce either Cillian or Doherty to start and not both? You can always make further changes as the game progresses and if you win have, at least, another 70 minutes against good opposition to judge lads again.

The difference for me is most football fans could now name the Dublin, Cork and Kerry teams that would line out in this years All Ireland final, should they get there, and be pretty accurate, barring unforeseen injuries. I'd doubt too many Mayo fans could pick their All Ireland team with the same confidence. So I think Mayo are risking losing a good opportunity here.

I m just trying to second guess management s thinking in this but obviously I don t know what is going on. Just trying to read the signs. I like to see them go for it tbh and see what happens. I don t think we should be afraid of a beating like 2010 or anything like that. That was coming and how it was a shock to anybody is beyond me. The team that played the last 2 league games won t take a pasting by anybody and who knows we could consolidate more with a bit of tweaking here and there.

  The bit in bold. Two fellas went after that. Both had been nailed down starters until then (unbelievably) and probably still be only for the now fortunate experience in Ballyshannon. If we had performed v Donegal we might still be waiting for Boyle and Conroy and the new dynamic that they have brought. I doubt that though. A blind man could see that they would improve thing no end.

Very few personnel changes were necessary to turn things around. But the dynamic changed considerably and it wasn t down to increased workrate like management seemed to suggest.

At the end of the day I would only have a problem with the quality of 2 players on the side named. And another is way off form for some reason. But as we saw in Donegal, a few below par performances can plunge the whole performance into a tailspin.

[moysider]

Seein as they couldn t be bothered posting here unless they re playing Tyrone, here is a flavour of what they re at on their own forum. Emphasis is mine.

Of course the team selection is a puzzle, only those involved know the 'inside the camp' details. My take is that JackO is pitching them equally with Mayo, as best he can. A tight game gives greater intensity so you find out how new lads respond (v react) under pressure. Mayo play a nice brand of football and both teams bring out the best in each other so it could be a competitive game if the weather permits. I suppose the quality bench is 'the kicker' if we fall behind and a few of them would turn it around handy enough if need be.It is very encouraging to see so many new lads making their presence felt and that is key to winning Sam; of c we are all very loyal to the stalwarts and everybody wants the best team on the field. Is this year a Vintage Crop of new blood? If the blanket defense raises it's ugly head then it is fresh legs all the way. See JackO's job ain't that simple either and he has lots of uncertainty to contend with. Anyway great to be back on here with you all and here's to No 37! « Last Edit: Yesterday at 1:10am by K Man at Ballythefireside »


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