GAA & Tourism - A Joke.

[thewobbler]

That's not what I said eamonca. What I said was people will not travel to Ireland to watch Gaelic Games alone. Yes they may well attend a game when they're here, but it's not a dealbreaker.

Bud's original spiel was misdirected. There is either a problem with the public traffic infrastructure in the country, or else it's jusg not financially viable for Iarnrod Eireann to run trains as he wants. In either case it's not a tourism issue.   

[Jinxy]

That's not what I said eamonca. What I said was people will not travel to Ireland to watch Gaelic Games alone. Yes they may well attend a game when they're here, but it's not a dealbreaker.

Bud's original spiel was misdirected. There is either a problem with the public traffic infrastructure in the country, or else it's jusg not financially viable for Iarnrod Eireann to run trains as he wants. In either case it's not a tourism issue.

In order to attend a game they'll have to be made aware of when it's on, how to get there.
I doubt they'll be on here looking for info so you have to bring the info to them via tourism websites, hotels etc.
If you go into a hotel anywhere in the country they'll have info & brochures about local outdoor activities like kayaking, hill walks and fishing and local entertainment/restaurants.
How about giving the locations of all the surrounding GAA clubs and visitors can ask at the desk for the days/times of matches?
You have to make it easy for people.

[lynchbhoy]

Bud has a point.
Personally I like to be able to take in a game when I go abroad somewhere. Not always possible, but I have arranged holiday dates in the past to take in american football and baseball games. Would hope to get ice hockey and basketball sometime in the future also.
Think sports loving visitors would like to see Hurling or Football. We need to market this properly and have this strategy underpinned by Bord falte or whoever is responsible these days.

But on the topic of public transport. Good luck. Buses are your best bet. Prior planning is needed. This kind of travel planning should be assisted by bord failte. Doubt if they would do that though. Gov agencies tend to not bother to do that kind of thing.

[Hardy]

The thing i don't get here is why any GAA fan would have the slightest interest in tourism marketing of the sport. Just what is it that makes you care, or make you believe it's an issue. I can't imagine a Leeds United, Leinster Rugby, Boston Red Sox, Hawthorns or Widnes fan even considering the subject, let alone caring enough about it to get upset.

Why do the likes of Bud feel their take on their sport has to be different?

Wobbler, I'm not qualified to answer for Bud, but since I've banged the same drum for a long time, I might as well give you my take on it, which is quite simple – we can use the incremental revenue, however small, that tourist bums on stadium seats represent. Also, the bigger the attendance at matches, the better the atmosphere and the greater the cumulative effect in attracting even more spectators.

On most Sundays of the Summer, there are a number of championship games around the country. Very few of these games are sell-outs. At the same time, on most Sundays in the Summer, the country is crawling with tourists. We in the GAA seem to take great care to hide from them this unique sporting experience and unique opportunity to immerse themselves in the local culture (which is what tourists prize above anything else).

That’s not to mention the myriad of club matches. I‘d go so far as to say that clubs in areas with a high tourist footfall – the cities and the West, for example - could make significant incremental income by offering a full match package. Pick up the tourist party, take them to the match, provide snacks and beer, off to a pub session after – you know the kind of thing. That has to be as attractive as riding a donkey through the woods or looking at the Mrs looking at Aran ganseys and pottery. A few dozen extra seats sold buys a set of jerseys.

I spent a couple of nights in a Dublin hotel last week. I had a good look around to see if I could see any GAA marketing stuff. “The Croke Park Experience” was all I could see being promoted – that’s the GAA museum and some associated “test your skills”-type interactive stuff. That’s a start, but there was no mention of matches at all.

Having said that, we were in Cork city yesterday and I missed it, but the Mrs said she saw an item on that scrolling news headlines sign they have at one end of Patrick’s Bridge to the effect that the GAA is to make match tickets available through Fáilte Ireland (I think). I didn’t see that in the papers. Anyone know anything about it? Maybe the marketing dept. at CP has been reading gaaboard.

[thewobbler]

Hardy, it's mad to even suggest that the GAA could somehow centrally co-ordinate a tourism initiative towards club games. Think about the logistical nightmare (fixtures not moving time/date, travel advice, pricing advice, facility information) and political nightmare (do you include division two games? what about division three? etc...) involved, and you'll understand that the emphasis can only ever be on the clubs involved in the matches to market their own home games.

It's like suggesting that Little League baseball games should be marketed towards tourists in New York. Tourists are of course welcome, but It's not for tourists, it's for local communities. Ploughing time and money into attracting one-off attendees is madness.


I've similar doubts over marketing the bigger Championship games to tourists. Apart from first round games, the competitors, dates or venues of these fixtures tend to change at short notice. Which means you would need a dedicated resource available throughout the summer to copywrite, design, print and distribute any materials created (as well as manage and pay for the distribution channels).

My opinion is that this would be a loss-making exercise.

When I'm on my holidays, I pre-plan before I go, and I scour the local press when I arrive for events that are happening - especially sports events. As an example, I drove 6 hours from New York to Buffalo just so I could see an NFL game when I was in the States. The NFL didn't market that game to me; I wanted to go, and I took the initiative.

If sport is your thing, then you'll always find ways to make it part of your holiday. Your eye will be caught by adverts and prompts to locals. If being carted around every twee attraction in Ireland by an overpriced tour operator is your thing, then you'll do that instead.
 

[Hardy]

… the emphasis can only ever be on the clubs involved in the matches to market their own home games.

Sorry, Wobbler it wasn’t clear, but that’s what I meant in reference to club games. Just an opportunity to pump a little more revenue locally. Everyone in tourism-dependent communities looks for ways to milk the tourist dollar. Why not the GAA club? Anyway, that was just off the top of my head and not my main point, which is to question why the GAA's marketing department does so little to tap an obvious source of revenue. If you want to go to a bullfight in Spain, the Spanish Bullfighting Association or whatever doesn’t make it hard for you.

I've similar doubts over marketing the bigger Championship games to tourists. Apart from first round games, the competitors, dates or venues of these fixtures tend to change at short notice. Which means you would need a dedicated resource available throughout the summer to copywrite, design, print and distribute any materials created (as well as manage and pay for the distribution channels.

I don’t think we’re talking about a major marketing exercise. My point is that a few small basic initiatives will make a big difference. Certainly, you’re not going to promote Louth v. Carlow, or even Meath v. Dublin all over the USA six months in advance. But would it be too hard to put an advert in the Aer Lingus Magazine and in whatever publications Fáilte Ireland produces? Don’t forget to take in a hurling match while you’re in Ireland – it’s an experience you’ll never forget, etc. Booking is easy – just ask at your hotel reception or tourist office – they’ll have a detailed brochure and you can book your tickets right there as well. And for most matches you can just walk up. And it’s only €25.

Has the GAA ever even sat down with Fáilte Ireland, I wonder.

[thewobbler]

Again from my own examples Hardy. I was in NYC a few years ago and me and my mate popped out for a quick pint while the wimmen got ready (for nothing in particular, just a night out) that evening. ESPN were going through the evening's baseball fixtures and we noticed the Mets were at home in a game just starting. I asked the barman how long it would take to get there, and 20 minutes later we were on a train to Shea Stadium.

MLB hadn't pushed the game to me. If I had have been on a coordinated tour, I'd have been scheduled for something else and wouldn't have gone.  If I'd booked tickets to a show that night, I'd have gone to it instead. Circumstances meant it suited us all to go, and I still couldn't tell you for sure who the opposing team were. Surely this is the case for most holidaymakers - when you've got free time, you look for things to do with it.

You can't possibly suggest that the GAA put roadblocks or difficulties in the way to prevent Ireland holidaymakers doing likewise; indeed the match information in local papers on match days tends to be excellent. So what it boils down to is whether they should actively pursue this market more aggressively. Yet I can't actually  think of another sporting organisation that does. Your take on it is probably along the lines of either "it's worth trying" or "we can show the way". My take on it is more along the lines of it being a waste of time and money.

[Jinxy]

Wobbler, professional sports in America don't try, or need, to attract tourists because there are 300,000,000 people in America bombarded with baseball, football and basketball coverage morning, noon and night.

[Hardy]

Again from my own examples Hardy. I was in NYC a few years ago and me and my mate popped out for a quick pint while the wimmen got ready (for nothing in particular, just a night out) that evening. ESPN were going through the evening's baseball fixtures and we noticed the Mets were at home in a game just starting. I asked the barman how long it would take to get there, and 20 minutes later we were on a train to Shea Stadium.

MLB hadn't pushed the game to me. If I had have been on a coordinated tour, I'd have been scheduled for something else and wouldn't have gone.  If I'd booked tickets to a show that night, I'd have gone to it instead. Circumstances meant it suited us all to go, and I still couldn't tell you for sure who the opposing team were. Surely this is the case for most holidaymakers - when you've got free time, you look for things to do with it.

You can't possibly suggest that the GAA put roadblocks or difficulties in the way to prevent Ireland holidaymakers doing likewise; indeed the match information in local papers on match days tends to be excellent. So what it boils down to is whether they should actively pursue this market more aggressively. Yet I can't actually  think of another sporting organisation that does. Your take on it is probably along the lines of either "it's worth trying" or "we can show the way". My take on it is more along the lines of it being a waste of time and money.

My point is even simpler than that, Wobbler. As you say, the decision to attend a local sporting fixture is often a spontaneous one. If you've never heard of Gaelic games you're hardly going to go looking for the local paper to find out what games are on. You'll end up at the races or the dogs instead. Is it too much to ask that the GAA take steps at least to ensure that visitors know gaelic games exist, they're an experience you won't find anywhere else, they're easy to get to and they don't cost much?

I'm not even remotely interested in what other sporting organisations do or in showing them the way. I'd just like to see posters in Dublin saying "Kilkenny vs. Wexford this Sunday at Croke Park, €25", flyers in those little stands you see in hotel lobbies and tourist information offices that are full of brochures for the Zoo and Newgrange, ads in the tourist magazines and tickets for sale in the tourist information offices. It's not going to guarantee the future growth and prosperity of the GAA, but it's not hard, not expensive and it's the very least I'd expect from the marketing department of the GAA, if it exists.

[Jinxy]

The GAA marketing manager was on the Committee Room one night Hardy and to say he would not fill you with confidence is an understatement.
He spent most of his time moaning about how he never gets credit for anything.

[thewobbler]

Hardy, I've no idea why someone would end up at the races or the dogs instead. It's not like HRI or IGB are actively pursuing this market either.

A better flyer for the GAA to drop into hotels etc would be to go into partnership with something like the Indo, and having a generic flyer advertising the availability and accessibility of Gaelic Games throughout the summer, but to check Friday and Saturday's Indo for full venue and ticketing details. It doesn't go stale that way, and doesn't require an extensive weekly effort to maintain. There must be 500 places for tourists to stay in Dublin alone.

[Hardy]

Found him! Here he is - Dermot Power, commercial and marketing manager of the GAA.



I also found this. Such ambition hardly seems compatible with hiding your existence, never mind your brand, from the millions who visit here each year.

[Hardy]

Hardy, I've no idea why someone would end up at the races or the dogs instead. It's not like HRI or IGB are actively pursuing this market either.

A better flyer for the GAA to drop into hotels etc would be to go into partnership with something like the Indo, and having a generic flyer advertising the availability and accessibility of Gaelic Games throughout the summer, but to check Friday and Saturday's Indo for full venue and ticketing details. It doesn't go stale that way, and doesn't require an extensive weekly effort to maintain. There must be 500 places for tourists to stay in Dublin alone.

Exactly. (I knew I'd win you around  .)

[Bud Wiser]

Again from my own examples Hardy. I was in NYC a few years ago and me and my mate popped out for a quick pint while the wimmen got ready (for nothing in particular, just a night out) that evening. ESPN were going through the evening's baseball fixtures and we noticed the Mets were at home in a game just starting. I asked the barman how long it would take to get there, and 20 minutes later we were on a train to Shea Stadium.

MLB hadn't pushed the game to me. If I had have been on a coordinated tour, I'd have been scheduled for something else and wouldn't have gone.  If I'd booked tickets to a show that night, I'd have gone to it instead. Circumstances meant it suited us all to go, and I still couldn't tell you for sure who the opposing team were. Surely this is the case for most holidaymakers - when you've got free time, you look for things to do with it.

You can't possibly suggest that the GAA put roadblocks or difficulties in the way to prevent Ireland holidaymakers doing likewise; indeed the match information in local papers on match days tends to be excellent. So what it boils down to is whether they should actively pursue this market more aggressively. Yet I can't actually  think of another sporting organisation that does. Your take on it is probably along the lines of either "it's worth trying" or "we can show the way". My take on it is more along the lines of it being a waste of time and money.

Wasn't it grand that you could get on a train ? The "spiel" I was giving, as you so eloquently put it was not particularly directed at Tourism, what I am saying is that marketing Irish Tourism is beyond the capability of the GAA if they cannot liase with Iarnrod Eireann and attract people to cheap 'gaa game outings by train'

Let me explain my "spiel" a bit better for you.
1. Last year the GAA and (??) , were boasting about the Croke Park and the green energy program they were promoting.
2. The figures for the reduction in carbon which they boasted about in Press Releases and on websites was based on replies that we gave saying we would use a train instead of our car to attend games at Croke Park. You don't have to be Einstein to figure out that if a game starts at 7pm and the last train is at 8pm that you are either going to (a) miss the train or (b) miss half the game - all because the train schedule can not be altered by one hour?

3.  Unless you are living in cloud cuckoo land the news should not have escaped you that the cost of a Dad driving hiw two young fellas to a game in Croke Park, when everything including petrol, meals, tickets are taken into consideration is one of the reasons for small attendances.  I see today that Iarnrod Eaireann have put a notice on their website to say that trains will be scheduled for the Munster Football Final and not alone that but tickets will be from €10. They were well able to get the times and venue from the GAA to promote this.

So why was the trains allowed to leave Tullamore a half hour before the game ended?  I'll tell you why, because it was a hurling match, that is why and the GAA dont give a foook about hurling and if Dublin footballers had been playing Galway next Saturday it would be on the Iarnrod Eireann website now along with the current advertisement.

[deiseach]

3.  Unless you are living in cloud cuckoo land the news should not have escaped you that the cost of a Dad driving hiw two young fellas to a game in Croke Park, when everything including petrol, meals, tickets are taken into consideration is one of the reasons for small attendances.  I see today that Iarnrod Eaireann have put a notice on their website to say that trains will be scheduled for the Munster Football Final and not alone that but tickets will be from €10. They were well able to get the times and venue from the GAA to promote this.

In fairness, ultimately it's not down to the GAA whether these trains run. Sure, the GAA could put out feelers to IR to run special trains. But as things stand when Cork are in the Munster final, you always have special trains. When Waterford are in the Munster final, you never have special trains. Why? Because the powers that be in Kent Station give a hoot while those in Plunkett Station do not