Dublin v Kildare 26.6.11

[Donnellys Hollow]

I'm going to be slightly controversial here and congratulate the referee for being man enough to award the free.

Don't get me wrong, I think it was a brutal decision, and very soft, but if the referee felt it was a foul, then fair play to him for having the courage of his convictions and giving the free. Some of things Kevin McStay said about 'you can't give a free like that in the last minute' implying that you can give it earlier on, is just wrong.

A foul is a foul is a foul. I didn't think it was a foul, but the referee did, and gave it knowing that it was going to be a major incident.

He was wrong in my opinion, but I'd still prefer an honest mistake being stood over, rather than someone trying to manipulate the game to get the 'right' result.

Great post, AZ. I only have the TV coverage to rely on for my judgement as to whether it was foul or not. And it's clearly not enough because it doesn't show the whole incident and what it does show is too distant to be clear. We don't see what happened before the point where the replay of the incident started. This however doesn't stop the TV muppets from pronouncing that it was an incorrect decision. My guess is that the ref saw a short tug on the jersey at some point. He was dead nuts on this all day and gave every one of them, no matter how slight. As you say, AZ, he would have been inconsistent (and would have been vilified for it by the same pundits) if he had chosen this as the only one to ignore.

I hate the nambification of the game that's going on and the yellow carding, etc. and this ref was one of the worst I've seen for that. He was way too fussy, but he was consistent.

By the way, AZ, McStay took the opportunity on TSG last night to retract his ludicrous statement that you can't give a free in the last minute when the game is level.

If he was consistent he would have awarded Tomás O'Connor at least one free for receiving similar 'treatment' especially prior to Leper's equaliser. It appears to me that bigger lads like O'Connor find it much harder to be awarded frees. Maybe they don't 'sell' the foul as well as smaller players. I've said it over and over again that our lads aren't cute enough at engineering frees - bring back Martin Lynch!

Also it's long overdue that the responsibility for timekeeping was taken off referees. Two minutes additional time yesterday was farcical. Ollie Lyons was down for that alone. There were several bookings, a red card and both teams used their full compliment of subs. Surely there was four or five minutes additional time at least?

Anyway, time to move on. Hopefully any perceived sense of injustice (however valid or otherwise) can drive Kildare on for the rest of the year. We didn't do ourselves any favours yesterday both on the field and in the dugout. One thing McGeeney has consistently done since 2008 is learned from his mistakes and he made a few yesterday IMO. Chalk it down to experience and get back up on the horse. At least it's not like the early nineties when there was no backdoor.

[Dinny Breen]

Why should the thread be locked? You're taking this badly Dinny

I loved that quote from JD. Now that's a leader.

It should locked because we need to move on, game over, that simple really. What's left is the usual circular debate about referees that should probably have it's own thread.

[lynchbhoy]

Great post, AZ. I only have the TV coverage to rely on for my judgement as to whether it was foul or not. And it's clearly not enough because it doesn't show the whole incident and what it does show is too distant to be clear. We don't see what happened before the point where the replay of the incident started. This however doesn't stop the TV muppets from pronouncing that it was an incorrect decision. My guess is that the ref saw a short tug on the jersey at some point. He was dead nuts on this all day and gave every one of them, no matter how slight. As you say, AZ, he would have been inconsistent (and would have been vilified for it by the same pundits) if he had chosen this as the only one to ignore.

I hate the nambification of the game that's going on and the yellow carding, etc. and this ref was one of the worst I've seen for that. He was way too fussy, but he was consistent.

By the way, AZ, McStay took the opportunity on TSG last night to retract his ludicrous statement that you can't give a free in the last minute when the game is level.

thought there was a pull v early on and imo Hardy, the ref was a bit inconsistent on this all day. Thats why I feel somewhat sorry for kildare (and was kinda hoping for a replay !!) because he hadnt given some of them earlier. Its a soft enough free, but that mclochlainn fella is always either coming from or about to comit a foul !!
thought the ref missed a few obv frees to either side.
Ogara was rightly booked for rough play (and stupidity).
OCalaghan and doyle superb for Kildare with Alan Brogan outstanding for Dublin.
Kildare never really looked in it and credit to Dublins defensive play (conlon superb) where they shut Kildare down when reduced to 14 men.
Not a pretty match, but thats championship football and very enjoyable.
I think Wexford are a far better team than people think. They destroyed a resolute and up for it carlow side yesterday and that is a massive yellowbelly side with 4 or 5 great scoring forwards.
They wont be easily beaten , and if Dublin dont up their perf from yesterday, there could be a big shock yet !

[brokencrossbar1]

I'm not accusing Brogan of that, because I never saw him do it, but I hate that lark as well. I was a forward myself, so anything to get a yard of space is fair game, but wrapping a lads arm up and pulling him down on top of you is cheating. Peter Canavan was great at it, and I heard him praising someone yesterday in the Donegal Tyrone game. At least he's not hypocritical about it.

Defenders have to put their arms out and be strong, they have no other weaponry trying to stop a lads run, because of the tackle in the GAA. They are entitled to stand their ground like that. If a forward hooks the arm and pulls them down, it should be a free out, but it's very hard for refs to make that call.

AZ would you be against a forward 'engineering' a free (and not in the Martin Lynch sniper from the rooftops way)?  Say, as a forward you win your race for the ball and you slam on the brakes causing the defender to push you over, would you see that as wrong?  It is still 'creating' the foul but is itb as bad as closing the arm and falling?  Just wondering like!

[lynchbhoy]

in general forwards are fouled way more times by defenders than the amount of frees they actually get.
you can't even take the law into yer own hands these days - as retaliation means you will most likely get sent off.I dont agree with attackers 'buying' frees by holding arms (a la colm orourke) or diving at the slightest bit of contact (cooper, cavanagh, most of Laois etc)
but when being held and dragged consistently with no sign of a free - it's kind of understandable!

[Hound]

I think this thread should be locked and my last comment on it is a quote from the great John Doyle...

"We do our job, and we expect others to do theirs properly, we can either lie down and cry or get back up and fight, I know what this group of lads will do." - JD June 26th 2011

A not very well diguised dig at McLoughlin by Johnny there. "Play the ball, not the feckin man, Andrew!!"

[Dont Matter]

It wasn't a free but was it karma for McLoughlin? He's always mouthing off and fouling players off the ball and was goading the other Brogan not long before the free incedent.

[ballinaman]

McAuley looked to have broken something in his hand, but hopefully its not that serious.

According to commentary during the match, they said there was a compound fracture of the finger.

Didn't know they had X Ray facilities at Croke Park.

Don't need an x-ray to diagnose a compound fracture, they involve the broken bone breaking the skin!

[Denn Forever]

Yuk.

[Jinxy]

in general forwards are fouled way more times by defenders than the amount of frees they actually get.
you can't even take the law into yer own hands these days - as retaliation means you will most likely get sent off.I dont agree with attackers 'buying' frees by holding arms (a la colm orourke) or diving at the slightest bit of contact (cooper, cavanagh, most of Laois etc)
but when being held and dragged consistently with no sign of a free - it's kind of understandable!

There is an inverse relationship between the size of the forward and the likelihood he will get a free if he deserves one.
Take Paddy O'Rourke for example.
There were times on Saturday when he had half of Louth on top of him and he still didn't get a free.

[ludermor]

I think this thread should be locked and my last comment on it is a quote from the great John Doyle...

"We do our job, and we expect others to do theirs properly, we can either lie down and cry or get back up and fight, I know what this group of lads will do." - JD June 26th 2011

I hope the players take the different option from the one the fans have taken.

[Coddler]

You would have to have sympathy for Kildare losing the match to a very doubtful free after Callaghan had pulled the game from the fire for them. There was no foul  visible  in the T.V footage of  the McLochlainn and Brogan race for the ball.
But it's fair to say that when both teams had 15 men the Dubs were the better outfit by a fair bit. Kildare had 30 minutes with the extra man on a blistering hot day and should have been able to overhaul us with their hard running game. The Dubs battled  hard and did just about enough to earn a draw which would have been a fair result.
I'm beginning to wonder though if Gilroy actually wants to win Leinster after the multiple QF and SF disasters as Leinster champions over the last decade. O' Gara was loping around like a Rottweiler worrying sheep for the whole first half and was on a yellow. It was glaringly obvious that he was going to get the line and yet Gilroy did not sub him at half time for McManamon. As O'Gara left the pitch Gilroy gave him a friendly pat on cheek ......If this was an All Ireland semi or final Gilroy would rightly have been livid at O' Gara but not yesterday.....  Another strange decision was putting on Decaln Lally before Cahill. These are not the actions of a manager doing everything in his power to win.
I think Gilroy has an ambivalent attitude to the Leinster championship and I would tend to agree with him. In 2009 we beat Kildare narrowly with 14 men, won Leinster and then got walloped by a resurgent Kerry who had stumbled through the back door. If we beat Wexford in the LF and I think we will then we'll be back in exactly the same position.
A narrow  battling loss with 14 men would not have been a disaster yesterday....

[laoislad]

I think this thread should be locked and my last comment on it is a quote from the great John Doyle...

"We do our job, and we expect others to do theirs properly, we can either lie down and cry or get back up and fight, I know what this group of lads will do." - JD June 26th 2011

I hope the players take the different option from the one the fans have taken.

I hope the players take the first option!

[tonto1888]

I thought it was an excellent game and feel so bad for the kildare team and fans. The ref made a mess at the end and that decision won the game for dublin. That said, O'Gara should not have been sent off either which gave kildare a big advantage

[heffo]

Commisserations to Kildare, but I won´t apologise for getting the decisions today.

Last years Leinster semi final Meath got three blatantly illegal goals and we had a perfect goal dissallowed.

Last years AI semi, Paul Kerrigan on three occassions grabbed the defenders arm and went to ground and Cork scored.

Sometimes you get the decisions and sometimes you don´t .

Bottom line remains Kildare have had two chances to beat us in the space of 24 months and have had an extra man for over seventy minutes of those two games and still haven´t beaten us.

A draw would´ve been a fair result but so would´ve last years AI semi final.

Dublin getting the rub of the green makes for a better headline.

No one wants a patronising apology thanks very much.

And the bottom line is that Dublin would not have won that game if wasn't for the referee.

There is no apology - patronising or otherwise.

Plenty of games are won or lost by the ref - Dublin have been on the receiving end on plenty of occassions, but I´ve had the grace not to use that as an excuse.

You might have humility in defeat but are clearly lacking it in victory.

I´ve got plenty in both Dinny in fairness.

You said your bottom line is that the ref lost it for you, I would´ve said only scoring four scores in 35 minutes of football is what lost it for you.

I´m not shouting from the rooftops and doing cartwheels, but you seem to be ignoring my central point that we were very hard done by in both the Leinster semi and AI semi last year by refs decisions and neither Dublin posters on here nor the Dublin players or mgt sought the easy option and blamed the ref.

We werent good enough on the day on either occassion and didn´t get the decions, yesterday we did.