Morality

[Olly]

How do people live their lives in terms of morality?

I was reading a book by a boy called Cant and he says that to give money to charity is not a good thing to do unless your intention was that it is something that you should do. What I mean is if you did it because you felt sorry for the tr**p it is WRONG. If you did it to make yourself feel good it is WRONG. You need to do it because you just naturally think it is what is right.

I used to obey the 10 commandments but then I realised that killing a man is justified in some cases so to obey rules laid down by a religion is wrong. This boy Cant agrees because he says that even though he was a Christian, you cannot prove God exists so to base morality on God's Will is faulty.

What I'm asking is what is the best way to live in terms of being morally good?

An example was today when I realised I was getting something weekly when I should not be. Do I report it or do I keep the Status Quo and say nothing.

SOme people say just being nice to people is the way to go but surely that is wrong if that person is an eveil murderous dictator. If Hitler was in need of CPR would you give it to him? I would give it to Hitler.

[Orior]

Belated happy birthday ONeill. I didnt know that once you approach middle age, you start to question your own morals.

Orior's Tip: When approaching anyone begging on the street, get in there first by asking if they could lend you 50p.

[Lar Naparka]

How do people live their lives in terms of morality?

I was reading a book by a boy called Cant and he says that to give money to charity is not a good thing to do unless your intention was that it is something that you should do. What I mean is if you did it because you felt sorry for the tr**p it is WRONG. If you did it to make yourself feel good it is WRONG. You need to do it because you just naturally think it is what is right.

I used to obey the 10 commandments but then I realised that killing a man is justified in some cases so to obey rules laid down by a religion is wrong. This boy Cant agrees because he says that even though he was a Christian, you cannot prove God exists so to base morality on God's Will is faulty.

What I'm asking is what is the best way to live in terms of being morally good?

An example was today when I realised I was getting something weekly when I should not be. Do I report it or do I keep the Status Quo and say nothing.

SOme people say just being nice to people is the way to go but surely that is wrong if that person is an eveil murderous dictator. If Hitler was in need of CPR would you give it to him? I would give it to Hitler.

I think it really depends on circumstances, Olly.
It kinda depends on the circumstances it depends on- if you follow my meaning.

Maybe the following little story will illustrate my point of view. Then again, it may not as that depends on circumstances.
There was, once upon a time, a preacher fella named Calvin.
He was a mighty fella altogether what with sermons on morals and the likes.
One day, he was standing outside the door of a meeting hall somewhere in Swiztzerland, probably where they make them lovely chocolates. He was there to keep an eye on the hoors going in to make sure they put their entrance fees in his bucket. He always told them that the money they came up with was for God and they should pay up and be glad to stump it up.
I don't know what you think but I think he could be doing something else and let God keep an eye on the taking. After all, he  to see for himself who was paying up and who was acting the maggot and dropping washers in instead of real money.
Anyway,  where was I?
Oh, yeah, Calvin saw one fella dropping in a tenner or whatever they were using at the time.
"Good man, yerself," said Calvin, "the Lord will be most pleased at your munificence and generosity."" (No, I don't know what them word mean either.)

"Holy God," yer man says, "I only meant to chip in a quid" and he reached in to take back his tenner.
"Shag off," says Calvin, "What you give to the Lord, stays with the Lord. No refunds!"
"Ah, FFS," said yer man "It's a bummer but at least I'll have a tenner's worth of credit with the Lord."
"Oh, no yo won't," was the reply." He''ll only cut you a quid's worth of slack since that all you intended to give."

Now, Olly, my question to you. is this:

Would he not have been better off to keep his money and buy a few Toblerone bars instead?

[ludermor]

If i have to listen to one more gobshite spout about building huts in africa ill split them. How they think by them flying over to africa and staying in hotel then building a few huts/houses is better than sending over the money from the flights and accomodation and building far far more houses/huts ill never know. I am especially sickened by woman who think they are making a difference, as if having some Cailin who never leaves an office working on a site is a great benifit, all it does is make themselves feel good.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

If i have to listen to one more gobshite spout about building huts in africa ill split them. How they think by them flying over to africa and staying in hotel then building a few huts/houses is better than sending over the money from the flights and accomodation and building far far more houses/huts ill never know. I am especially sickened by woman who think they are making a difference, as if having some Cailin who never leaves an office working on a site is a great benifit, all it does is make themselves feel good.

Ludermor, it's now known as "charity tourism"!

[The Iceman]

If i have to listen to one more gobshite spout about building huts in africa ill split them. How they think by them flying over to africa and staying in hotel then building a few huts/houses is better than sending over the money from the flights and accomodation and building far far more houses/huts ill never know. I am especially sickened by woman who think they are making a difference, as if having some Cailin who never leaves an office working on a site is a great benifit, all it does is make themselves feel good.

16 people have 6 months to raise money for a house building project in Central America. They are not going, just doing some fund raising for a worthy cause. How much effort would they put into it and how successful would they be? What kind of an impact would this fund raising have on their lives? Would they be changed as a result?

16 people have 6 months to raise money for a house building project in Central America. During that 6 months they bond as a group, work their asses off and raise 70 grand. They go to Central America as a team, work their assess off for 3 weeks. Give the local builders a much needed boost, do the laborers work for them, bring additional money into the community through lodging and food, generate hope in the town and surrounding area that someone actually gives a shit. They work on 7 houses while they are there and leave behind enough money to cover the project for another 3-4 years. They also leave behind a pickup truck that now allows the builders to reach previously unreachable families with building materials in the hills/mountains. The majority of the team come home changed forever.

[ludermor]

i have to disagree with almost everything you have written. If people are serious about rasing money for a good cause then they will raise the money. If you think there is any sort of value in in flying out lay people to help in building then i ahve to say you ar mistaken.I have no dubt you have back up to your figures are they seem very precise but from the Niall Mellon site in 2010 they had 750 people raising  5k each and they built 140 houses. Why cant the charity have management on site and get them to manage local builders who would employ local people then that would bring a lot more money to the people who needs it not to hotels who have cosy set ups. The 750 people would have had to spend at least 3k each on flights and accomodation & transfers so that money could have gone to local needs ( business and people ) but instead it is the price some pay for feeling good about themselves.
For clarity i know a lot of people who have gone on these trips and for the vast majority the result have been feelgood factor for themsleves for a short time after and then 'little or no lifechanging' effect.
I cannot see what bonding there was for 6 months previous??
Give the local builders a much needed boost, you must be joking!! These are the lads who are being undercut and are missing out on the works!
The majority of the team come home changed forever.... i have seen no evidence of this whatsoever!!!
I have a feeling we will have to agree to disagree on this one!!

[The Iceman]

Ludermor this is all based on personal experience having travelled on 8 teams and led 3 of them myself.

People give more money when they know you are going yourself. I've seen it happen every time. Maybe its different on faith based mission trips - but this is definitely my experience.
The team bonds as they work together to raise money. They meet monthly for the first 3 months then bi-weekly for the last 3 months on team building exercises, planning meetings and local volunteer work to get a small taste of whats involved.
The local builders get a much needed boost as the squads employed by Habitat for Humanity are quite small and over worked. To have 16 people come in and dig footings, move blocks and mix mud and let your own laborers lay block is definitely a help.
The local community in the destination country draws hope and strength from the fact that people actually came rather than sending over a a few pound. It really makes a lasting impact.

Team members are changed (again this might be faith based teams only). Out of the first team I travelled with of 16, 14 of them went back again and 8 of the original 16 ended up leading their own teams to various countries. My experiences have had a profound effect on me, how I live and how I look at people and the world.

I don't mind disagreeing with you if you have went on a team yourself and come back with opposite experiences. But I don't think its fair to label us all the same if you yourself haven't experienced it.

[ludermor]

I dont mean to taint everyone and i know there are a lot that do this with the best intention but i have to say there are a lot who have done it to make themselves feel better and not have no lasting effect on the people they are supposed to help. The company i work for has sent 2 teams away the last few years and my hole is sickened listening to them when they come back, to date none have gone back and some refuse to donate to any charity saying they have done enough on their 'life changing experience' .

[ziggysego]

I remember watching a short drama on television around 15/16 years ago. It was about a time traveller that was sent back in time to when Adolf Hitler was a baby. She was assigned to get a job as Hitler's baby and then kill the baby. Try as she could, she could not bring herself to kill the baby. After all, it was just a baby and had done no wrong yet. She was unable to justify the murder.

She was getting pressure put upon herself, from her bosses back in the future, that did needed to be done. Eventually she murdered baby Hitler and was overcome with grieve, it didn't matter to her the millions of lifes she would save in the 1940s.

So in a moment of madness, she stole a baby from a homeless in the street and replaced it was the dead Hitler. After that, she threw herself under a tram and died.

Turns out the baby she murdered wasn't Adolf, but Adolf was the replacement baby.

Makes you think, eh Olly.

[Puckoon]

Yeah zig. That post really had me scratching the old head a few times.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I remember watching a short drama on television around 15/16 years ago. It was about a time traveller that was sent back in time to when Adolf Hitler was a baby. She was assigned to get a job as Hitler's baby and then kill the baby. Try as she could, she could not bring herself to kill the baby. After all, it was just a baby and had done no wrong yet. She was unable to justify the murder.

She was getting pressure put upon herself, from her bosses back in the future, that did needed to be done. Eventually she murdered baby Hitler and was overcome with grieve, it didn't matter to her the millions of lifes she would save in the 1940s.

So in a moment of madness, she stole a baby from a homeless in the street and replaced it was the dead Hitler. After that, she threw herself under a tram and died.

Turns out the baby she murdered wasn't Adolf, but Adolf was the replacement baby.

Makes you think, eh Olly.

She should have been sent to Paris when Hitler was hanging around there in his youth tyring to flog pictures and got him a job doing a spot of painting, sure only the world of art would have been murdered in that scenario.

Next time a person comes to your place of work or home trying to flog a picture of country cottage, buy it, to do otherwise may mean you have the blood of millions on your hands.

[Mike Sheehy]

I remember watching a short drama on television around 15/16 years ago. It was about a time traveller that was sent back in time to when Adolf Hitler was a baby. She was assigned to get a job as Hitler's baby and then kill the baby. Try as she could, she could not bring herself to kill the baby. After all, it was just a baby and had done no wrong yet. She was unable to justify the murder.

She was getting pressure put upon herself, from her bosses back in the future, that did needed to be done. Eventually she murdered baby Hitler and was overcome with grieve, it didn't matter to her the millions of lifes she would save in the 1940s.

So in a moment of madness, she stole a baby from a homeless in the street and replaced it was the dead Hitler. After that, she threw herself under a tram and died.

Turns out the baby she murdered wasn't Adolf, but Adolf was the replacement baby.

Makes you think, eh Olly.

the homeless baby....

[Lar Naparka]

Yeah zig. That post really had me scratching the old head a few times.

Me too and I scratched me other end as well a few times but I still couldn't make head nor tail of it.

[SLIGONIAN]

I remember watching a short drama on television around 15/16 years ago. It was about a time traveller that was sent back in time to when Adolf Hitler was a baby. She was assigned to get a job as Hitler's baby and then kill the baby. Try as she could, she could not bring herself to kill the baby. After all, it was just a baby and had done no wrong yet. She was unable to justify the murder.

She was getting pressure put upon herself, from her bosses back in the future, that did needed to be done. Eventually she murdered baby Hitler and was overcome with grieve, it didn't matter to her the millions of lifes she would save in the 1940s.

So in a moment of madness, she stole a baby from a homeless in the street and replaced it was the dead Hitler. After that, she threw herself under a tram and died.

Turns out the baby she murdered wasn't Adolf, but Adolf was the replacement baby.

Makes you think, eh Olly.

The moral of that story is mind conditioning, when a baby is born it is like a wiped computer, clean and clear of any viruses, but your life circumstances condition your mind and your parents have the biggest impact in that term so therefore life makes you what you are alot more than you think. So it didnt matter who the baby was it was always going to be conditioned into adolf hitler.

I watched a documentary of this serial killer in the states, all of the major horror films are based on this real life individual and use the term based on true story with that but massive dramatic licence was taken in the movies that are way off the real story. Anyways this child was born into single parent house where his mother brought him up, they lived about 10 miles outside of this village totally isolated in the woods. She was a religious fanatic old school catholicism and brought the kid up to hate women etc... he never had human contact  until his mother died he started to kill women in the village, he killed them and skined them in his house. He got caught by chance by FBI, in this state there is death penalty but he didnt get it as he was deemed clinically insane as he was brainwashed from birth to be this way and therefore was put away for life in a highest security prison. His behauvior was totally unconcious and he acting out of his conditioned mind.

Im not a religous fanatic but there is a saying in the Bible "forgive them Father for they know not what they do" Its a great saying but most people dont get it, What Jesus was saying is these people are unconcious, there acting from the conditioned mind a habit in basic words, not there true selves, and key to understanding is when someone in your life pushes your buttons and your react is what is unconcious, you dont have the power not to react, but enlightened people or people who are concious can choose there reaction, not just lash out. Theres more to it than this but something that fascinates me. Books on buddhism and sages over there are great comforts in times of hardship.